RECORD-SEN ATE. - US Government Publishing Office

OONGR.ESSIO~ ~L RECORD-SEN ATE. NovEMBER 11;

By l\Ir. LONERGA.l~: Petition of Fairfield (Conn.) County .of Congregational Ch~rches and Ministers, for an Armenian mantlate; to tlle Committee on Foreign Affairs.

By 1\lr. McGLENNON: Petition of Bloomfield Council, No. 1178, Knights of Columbus, Bloomfield, N. J., opposing the welfare work in the camps being · taken over by the Military Establishment; to the Committee on Military Affairs.

By Mr. NOLAN: Petition of different. parlors of the Native Sons of the Golden West, San Francisco, Calif., for legislation favoring the exclusion of Asiatics and Hindus from admission to the United States; to the Committee on Immigration and Naturalization.

Also, petition of Sussman, Wormser Co. and two other firms of San :b'rnncisco, Calif., opposing House bill 8315; to the Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce.

By Mr. O'CONNELL: Petition of naval militia, New York, favoring increase in pay to naval forces; to the Committee on· Naval Affairs. ·

By Mr. RAKER: Petition of Rainbow Parlor, NQ. 40, Native Sons of the Golden West, of Wheatland; Placer County Federation of Women's Clubs; Silver Star Parlor, No. 63, Native Sons of the Golden West, of Lincoln; all in the State of California, opposing immigration from_ oriental countries; to the Committee on Immigration and Naturalization.

Also, petition of Sussman, Wormser & Co., of San Francisco, Calif., opposing House bill 8315; to the Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce.

Also, petition of mayors of Pacific coa ·t citie , assembled in Sacramento, Calif., relative to the high cost of living; to the Committee on the Judiciary.

By Mr. ROW AN: Petition of Maj~ R. C. Tolman and others, of New York City, concerning treatment of conscientious objectors; to the Committee on 1\lilitary Affairs.

Also, petition of Fur Merchants' Association of New York, favoring the passage of House bill 9778 ; to the Committee on Ways and Means.

Also; petition of W. R Pulsifer, ·of New York City, opposing l'egulations to be adopted by the Ameri~an Express Co: which would limit articles to 25 pounds for expres.~ shipments; to the Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce. ·

Also, petition of National Association of Uniteu States Civil Service Employees, Lake Bluff, ill., favoring il)creasc in pay to naval employees; to the Committee on Naval Affairs.

.Also, petition of R. W. Dunn, of New York City, favoring Senate bill 3002; to the Committee on Military Affairs.

Also, petition of Edward W. Buckley, secretary of the ]'few York State Industrial Commission, indorsing measure for retaining industrial cripples; to the Committee on Labor.

Also, petition of Private Soldiers and Sailors' Legion, \Vashington, D. C., urging incorporation; to the Committee on the Judiciary.

Also, petition of John Mahoney and John Bu.rke, of New York City, urging adoption of wage schedules for naval employees; to the Committee on Naval Affairs. .

Also, petition of Northern N.ew York Utilities (Inc.), Watertown, N. Y., favoring sale of light wines :md beer; to the Com-mittee on the Jud~ciary. _ ·

Also, petition of Hill Bros. Co. anu others of New York, urging protection for the longshoremen who desire to return _ to work pending the settlement of the strike ; to the Committee on the Judiciary.

Also, petition of central executive committee, storm-stricken area, favoring bills introduced for harbor survey and sea-wall and causeway relief for storm-stricken urea; to the Committee on Rivers and Harbors. ,·

Also, petition of Associated Rifle Clubs of-New York and New Jersey, favoring House bill 7708; to the Committee on ~filitary Affairs. ·

Also, petition of A.melican Jewelers' Protective .Association (Inc.), favoring the passage of House bills 6577 and 6659; to the Committee on Ways and Means.

Also, petition of United Aircraft Engineering Corporation of New York, favoring additional appropriation for United States Air Service; to the Committee on Military .Affairs.

By Mr. SINCLAIR: Petition . of International Union of United Brewery, Flour, Cereal, and Soft Drink Workers of America, opposing the Cummins railroad bill, on the ground that it e 'tablisbed involuntary servitude for all men employed in the transportation serVice oi· other seinipublic industries ; setting forth that employers of all kinds; including mine owners, profiteering systematically <luring the war, forcing the cost of living upward from 1QO to 200 per cent above normal, and that these profiteers are behind the measure to enslave the entire .American working class; declaring that such proposed legisla!~o? is rE>:-:poJu;ible for the growth of unrest, Socialism, a,.nd

Bolshevism among the toilers ; to the Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce.

By Mr. YATES: Petition of . C. R. Davis, [email protected], Ill., favoring the early passage of the Fuller pension bill; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. ·

Also, petition of the · Joint Conference on Retirement, Washington, D. C., favoring the Lehlback bill, House bill 3149; to the Committee on Reform in the Civil Service. ·

Also. petition of American Association for Labor Legislation, New York, favoring House bill 3149, concerning retirement allowances for civilian · employees grown old in the ser\ice; to the Coinmitttee on Reform ·in the Civil Service.

~~lso, _petition of Huyler's, New York, favoring Senator C.ALi>ER's bill ( S. 3011) to amend the· food and drugs act of June 30, 1906; to the Committee on ·Agriculture. .

Also, ,petition .of Adjt. Gen. F. S. Dickson, Springfiel<l, lll., urging early passage of House bill 9694; to the committee on Naval Affairs. .

Also, petition of . Belleville Council No. 1028, Knights of Columbus, Belleyille, Ill., protesting against tlie proposed. cessation of war-camp activities by welfare societies; to the Committee on Military Affairs.

Also, petition of central executive committee storm-stricken area, Corpus Christi, Tex., favoring the passage of bills introduced by Senator SHEPPARD and Representative BEE for harbor survey and sea-wall and causeway relief for storm- tricken area ; to the Committee on Rivers anu Harbors. ·

SENATE.

. TUESDAY, J.Vo·ve-mbe·J' 11,1919. (Lcgisla.ti·z:e (lay of Monday, Noz:.e·mbe1· 10, 1919.)

The Senate met at 11 o'clock a. m., on the expiration of the recess. ,

The Vice President being absent, the President pro tempore (Mr. CuMMII'!"S) took the chair.

l\Ir. CURTIS. Mr. President, I suggest the absence of a quorum. _

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Secretary will call the roll.

The Secretary called the roll, and the following Senators auswered to their names : .Ashurst Harding :McLean Ball Harris McNary Beckham Harrison Moses Brandegec Henderson Nelson Calder Hitchcock New Capper Johnson, Calif. Newberry Chamberlain .Johnson, S.Dak. Norris Colt Jones, N. Mex. Nugent Culberson Jones, Wash. Overman Cummins Kellogg o ·wen . Curtis Kendrick Page Dial Kenyon Penrose DilUngllam Keyes Phelan Edge King Pbipps Elkins Kirby . Pittman Fall , Knox Pomerene France La Follette Ransdell

. Frelinghuyscn LE>nroot ·. Reed Gay · Lodge . Robinson Gerry McCormick Sheppard Gronna AcCumber Sherman Hale . McKellar ·Simmons

Smith, Ariz . Smith, Ga. Smith, Md. Smith, S.C. Smoot Spencer Stanley

.... sterling Sutherland Swanson · Thomas 'l'ownsend 'l'rammell ·wndsworth Walsh. Mass. Walsh. Mont. Wan en Watson Williams Wolcott

Mr. JONES of Washington. I desire to announce that my colleague [Ur. POI -DEXTER) is absent Oil account of illne. s.

Mr. GERRY. I wish to announce that the senior_ :senator from . Alabama [Mr. BANKHEAD] and the senior Senator from Tennes eo [Mr. SHIELDS] are detained from the Senate by illness.

I wish al o to announce that the Senator from Flol'ida [Mr. Fr..ETCHER], the Senator from l\.Iontana [l\.Ir. MYERS], and the junior Senator from Alabama [1\.fr. UNDERWOOD] are absent on official business.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Eighty- ix Senators have answeretl to their names. -There is a quorum present.

EMBARGO ON DYES .AND COAL-TAR PRODUCTS. :Mr. PENROSE. Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent to

submit a report from the Committee ·on Finance. I report back from that committee favorably without amendment the joint resolution ( S. .T. Res. 125) to continue the control of imports of dyes and coal-tar products. It will not lead to any debate and it is agreed to in the House. They want to have it there that they may .. pass it. .

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The . Secretary \vill read tho joint resolution: ' . . .

1919. CONGRESSION.A.L RECORD-SENATE.

The Secretary read the joint resolution, as follows: Resolced, etc., That notwithstanding the prior termination of the

present war the provisions of the trading-with-the-enemy act approved October 6, 1917, and of any proclamation of the President issued in pursuance thereof which prohibit or control the importation into the United States of tlyes or other products derived directly or indirectly from coal tar are continued until January 15, 1920. During the period between the passage of this joint resolution and January 15, 1920, neithe.r the President nor the War Trade Board section of the Department of State, nor any other agency of the Government, shall issue to any person, corporation, partnership, or association any license or permit to import into the United States any such dyes or coal-tar products, and during such period no person, corporation, partnership, or association srall import into the United States dyes or coal-tar products except by virtue of a license or permit heretofore issued.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Is there objection to the present consideration of the joint resolution just read?

Mr. HITCHCOCK. There was so much noise I could not hear it fully. \\ill the Senator state what the joint resolution propose ?

Mr. PENROSE. Briefly, it is a joint resolution which has been agreed on by the Finance Committee of the Senate and the Ways and Means Committee of the House, after consultation 'vith the manufacturers of dyestuffs and the consumers, chiefly the textile manufacturers, practically to maintain the present embargo on the importation of dyestuffs until January 15, 1920, and to afford an opportunity to consider u proper protective bilL It is feared tliat with the consummation of peace the American market will be flooded with German dyestuffs within- n week or 10 <lays and that it Win be ruined for years to come. Representative LONGWORTH, the author of t]le bill pending in fue Senate, has agreed to this joint resolution, as has everyone else concerned.

MJ·. HITCHCOCK. Is it a unanimous report of the Finance Committee?

l\1r. PENROSE. ~o, sir; I candiilly admit that such was the url?:ency of the legislation I had to canvass the committee and I have not even seen all the members of it; but so confident am I that th-e joint resolution is unobjectionable that I have taken the chance. It is \ery necessary to have the joint resolution passed and sent to the House right away, because that body may take- a recess or an adjournment_ at the end of the week, and if it does so without acting on this joint resolution the result will be very serious.

Mr. HITCHCOCK. I think for · the present I shall object. It may be that later in the day we can arrange for it<; con ideration,' but I should like to examine it.

Mr. PENROSE. All right. The PRE~IDENT -pro tempore. The joint resolution will be

placed on the calendar. WILLIAM 0. JE~KISS.

l\lr . . J,.ODGE. If I can have unanimous consent, I report back favorably . with an amendment from the Committee on F<Jretgn Relations a resolution of inquiry. It is the unanimous · ·eport of the Committee on Foreign Relations.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Secretary will read the resolution.

The Secretary read -Senate resolution 224, submitted bv Mr. KING on the 8th instant, as follows: •

Resol,;e(f., That the Secretary of State be, and hereby is, requested, if not incompatible with the public interest, to report to the Senate all information in his possession with respect to the recent forcible abduction of William 0. Jenkins, const;~lar agent of the United States at Puebla, Me.xko ; the iQdignitles suffered by him during such abduction at the bands of Mexican nationals, and the means employed by said Jenkins to effectuate his liberation, together with the representations that have been made to the Mexican Government for the purposes of ofltaining indemnification and reparation in the premises, and to secure tbat degree of protection for official representatives of the · United States in ·Mexico that is -accorded by civilized StatPs to tbe diplomatic representatives of other powers, according to the usa.ttes and customs of international law _ and practice.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Is there objection to. the present consideration of the resolution?

1\Ir. OWEN. What is the 'resolution? Mr. LODGE. It is a resolution of inquiry in the case of 1\fr.

.Jenkins, who was abducted. The Senate by unanimous consent proceeded to consider

the resolution. . The amendment of the committee was to strike out all after

the word "to," in line 11, and insert "report to the Senate what <legree of protection for official representatives and other citizens of the United States in Mexico the United States lias demanded from the Government of that Republic and what response has been made thereto." ·

The amendment was agreed to. The resolution as amended was agreed to.

. MESSAGE FROM THE HOUSE. A message from the House of Representatives, by D. K.

Hempstead, its enrolling clerk, announced that the House

insists upon its amendments to the bill ( S. 24 72) to amenu the act approved December 23, 1913, known as the Federal reserve act, disagreed to by the Senate ; agrees to the conference asked for by the Senate on the disagreeing votes of the two Honi3es thereon, and had appointed Mr. PLATT, Mr. 1\fcFADDEK, 1\Ir. DALE, Mr. PHELAN, and Mr. WL~Go managers at the confer. ence on the part of the House.

The message also announced that the House agrees to the report of the committee of conference on the disagreeing votes of the two Houses on the amendments of the Senate to the bill (H. R-. 3143) to provide for further educational facilities by authorizing the Secretary of War to sell at reduced rates certain machine tools not in use for Government purposes to trade, technical, and public schools and universities, and other recognized educational institutions.

The message further rumounced that the House 1lad passed a bill (H. R. 10378) to provide for the promotion and maintenance of the American merchant marine, to repeal cehain einergencs legislation, an(l provide for the disposition, regulation, and use of property acquired thereunder, and for other purt)oses, in which it requested the concurrence of the Senate. ·

El\TROLLED BILL SIGNED. The message also announced that the Speaker of the House

ha<l signed the enrolled bill ( S. 1373) to amend the Articles of War, and it was thereupon signed by the President pro te1i1pore.

HOUSE BILL REFERRED. H. R 10318. An act to provide for the promotion and mainte

nance of the American merchant madne, to repeal certain emergency legislation, and provide for the disposition, regulatiou, and use of property acquired thereunder, _and for other purposes, was read t;wice by its title and referred to the Committee on Commerce. ·

PETITIONS .A.ND MEMORIALS. Mr. OVERUAJ."'f. I ask to have inserted in the RECORD a reso-

lution from the gE-neral assembly of the Phll~nthropic Literary Society of the University of North Carolina, indorsing the adoption of the league of nations.

There being no objection, the resolution was ordered to be printed in the RECORD, as follows:

" THE GENERAL AssE~£BLY oF THE PHILANTHROPIC LITERARY SOCIETY,

"University otNorth OaroHna. "House- Resolution No. 1, session fall term 1919.

"A l'esolution indorsing the adoption of the Paris covenant for a league of nations by the Senate of the United Stutes.

" The General Assembly of the Philanthropic- Literary Society do enact, That whereas the world is unanimous in the opinion that _ war and its results are but the relics of barbarianism in this present age ; and

"That whereas in order to promote international cooperation and to achieve international peace and security, by the acceptance of obligations not to resort to war, by the prescription of open, just, and honorable relations between nations, by the fum establishment of international law as to actual rule of conduct among governments, and by the maint(mance of justice and a scrupulous respect with one another; and

"That whereas this covenant extends to all the world the principles of the Declaration of Independence, the Co.nstitntion of the United States, and the Monroe doctrine:

"The·retore be it Tesol-J;ed by the Genem~ .Asse.mbly of the Philanth·ropic Literat·y Society, That it recommend to the Senate of the United States the adoption of the Paris covenant of the league of nations as a means of establishing the integrity of the peace of the world.

"W. H. A.NnnEws, StJeakcr. "Per W. B. W.

"\Y. B. \VoMBLE, "Reading Olerk.

"Introduced by Mr. Kerr, of Warren . "Passed by a vote of 24 against and 58 for the adoption. "November 1, 1919." Mr. COLT presented a resolution adopted by the Rhode Island

Branch of the American Legion, favoring a clause in contracts giving preference to veterans of the war in the distribution of work, which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary.

He also· presented a resolution adopted by the Rhode Island Branch of the American Legion, favoring the enactment of legislation to enable Yeterans of the war to borrow from "the Government 100 per cent of the value of a building to be used as a home, which was referred to the Committee on Military Affairs.

He also presented a resolution adopted by "the Rhode Island Branch of the American Legion, affirming adherence to the

· "American's Creed" and subscribing_ to all the principles of

8268 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. N OVE.l\lliER ll'

patr1 tiSJ.D and Jo_yalty emboLll&l therein, w.hrch wns 1.·eferr d to I think ought to lle done, I think the olllJD.ittee on .Education the Committee on Education -and Labor. an<:l Labor ought to suggest an -nmendmeni, o that there can

He also ·presented a ;re olution ·ado_pted ,by fhe· Rhode Island · ·be .no doubt about it,' that the committee will not only investi: · Braucll of -the American Legion, :favoring the enactment of leg- gate ~all that is spec.i.fically et out in there olntion for investi- · islation . pro,iding .for .the deportation rof all aliens w.ho with- gation, but that ihey will also tin\estigat the i uing of the drew their _'first naturalization papers in order to escape mili- injunc-tion by fh.e court in fuis ··ease. tary ·ervice, which was referred to the .Committee on Immi- · Mr. JONES of Washington. I Jmve 11{) objection to the com-g:ration. mittee amending the resolution to that effect.

He also pre-sented a resolution adopted .by the Rhode Island 'The PRESIDENT p.ro tempore. · W.ithont obJection, the reso-Branch of the American Legion, favoring -an increase in the lution W"ill be referred to the Committe-e on Education and pay of officers ·and 1men in 1the Army, Navy, u:pd 1\Iar.ine Corps, Labor. which was referred ·to the Committee on Military. Affairs. :M:r. POl\-IEREl\TE. · Mr. President, I have been furnished with

He also presented .a resolution adopted by the Rhode Island an .Associated Press · dispatch relating to the coul strike, which Brytnch of tne American Legion, fa,voring the enactment of I think will be of' interest to the Senate, and I ask that it legislation giving aid to the children. of the men who were killed may be ·read: · and wounded in the late ;war, which was referred to the Com- The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Without objection, the Sec-mittee on Military Affu.irs. -retary will read as requested.

He also pre ented a ;resolution adopted by the Rhode Island · The Secretary r~ad us follows : Branch of the American .Legion, I'.emollS1:rating against the Bulletin. development of Bolshevism Dll.d .fa-voring th·e ena·ctment of legislation necessary to curb this menace -to free institutions, which was referred to th.e Committee on the Judiciary.

lND{A.."'iAPOLIS, No1;embor 11.

He also presented a resolution ad~pted _by the Rhode .·Island Branch of the American Legion, favoring the employment of all lawful means to check and ·prevent the extension ·of the dangerous doctrines threatening our free institutions ·and our flag, etc., which was referred to ·the Committee"on the Judicinry.

Tbe United i\Iine Workers of America, through its general committee, decided to-day to obey the mandate -of United States District Judge Anderson, wbich means the recall of 'the OTder for the strike or 425,000 · bituminous-coal miners of tbe Nation. This decision was rPachC'd at 4.10 this morning, after more than 17 hours' discussion. Tbe confer-ence then adjourned until 2 p. ·m. ·

Mr. POMERE~'"E. l\Ir, President, I have investigated this subject considerably, and I am satisfied that there is an ele-

-niL.Ls INTRODU'CED. ment of justice in the complaint which has b_een made by the Bills were introduced, read the first time, and, by unanimous miners to the effect that under present condition,s they are

consent, the second time, and referred as follows: entitled under all the equities to an increase in. their wages._ By Mr. l\icNARY: - What amount I do not 'knoW". I know that Is the feeling ,pre-A bill (S. 3413) ·for the relief of Charles G. Griffa; to the ntiling among many of the good, substantial coal operators in

Committee on Military Affair . _ my. ection of the-country and I see no reason why an amicable By Mr. -CALDER: 1 ndjustment of this question can not -be made. A bill (S. 3414) for the relief of 'Villiam Matthew:·; t9 the l\Ir. McKELLAR. I ask unanimous consent to have inserted

Committee on Military Affairs. · in the RECORD, without .ref,ldli:lg, ,a resolution adopted at a mass A bill .. ( S. 3415) •for the :relief of the estate of F. z. Tucker, meeting held at Morristown, ~enn., in reference to the prevail-

deceased; and · ing violence 11.nd disorder in the ~untry. A bill ( S. 3416} for the relief of Elizabeth Bolge1·; to the "'.rhere being no objertion_, the resolution was ordered to be

Committee on Claims. printed in the RECORD, as ·follows: . S'ITJKE OF coAL 2.LmERs. " We, your committee, b_eg to submit the following ·preamble

· · and resolutions for your consideration : · l\Ir. JO~"ES of Washlngton. I submit a resolution, wllich I

ask may be i·ead and refened to the Committee on Education "Whereas a spirit of unrest, disregard for .law, opposition to and Labor. constituted autliority, anarchy;_and revolution is now preva-

The reso1utlon ( s. Res. 22'8) was read, as follows: lent in our country, manif~ting itself sometimes under the ResoZvea, That tbe CommUtoo 'On Edu~ation and Labor be, and it is guise of organizations purporting to .. alleviate .oppression,

hereby, ·authorized and directed, tbrough the iull committee or through sometimes by outspoken hostilities to our system of govern-any Bubcommittee thereof, to investigate as speedily as possible the ment, ·ometimes · b'y threats of ·violence t;tnd ·activity of present Nation~wide bituminous-coal strike, the causes and reasons mobs, in other instances by orga~zations tending to retn.rd therefor, and ascertain the facts relating to the controversy, and espe- . cially the nationality of the miners iii general, tbe conditions under the resumption ~f -and restoration to nor.J;Ilal ~ondftions, wbich they work, the wages they are paid, the number of days of em- hampering commerce, retarding transportation, r~trictt~g ployment dnring tbe year, the reasons tor lack of continuous employ- production, and threatening to deprive the great maSses of ment, and who is to blame therefor, if anyone; bow tbis -condition can the people of ·the necessities of life, and in v-arious ·other· be remedied, and ascertain any "other facts that may be necessary to advise the public -fully relating to tbe reasons and causes ·for finch \TU:YS to override the Constitution, subvert our institutions, strike, and suggest or . recommend to ~Congress · any. measures that the and defy all constituted government, and believing the time National Government can take to ameliorate ~ondltions, right wrongs llas come when all law-abiding citizens should assert them-and injustice, and prevent the recurren~ of such strikes in the future.

The said committee is be.reby .empowered to ,sit and act at such selves and proclaim their loyalty to our Government and · time and place as .. it may_ -deem necessary; to reguire, by sub{)<Ella :or its institUtions: Therefore be it otherwise, the attendance <>f witnesses, the production of books, papers, and documents; to employ .stenographers at a cost not exceeding 1 "Resolved by the citizens ·of Hamblen Oounty, Tenn.~ in -mass per printed page. The .chairman of the committee, - or any member meeting assembled, as follows: . thereof, may administer oatbs to. witnesses. ·subpamas for witnesses "FI'rst. That we '~e.reby express om· confidence in the con-shall be tssued under the signature of tbe chairman of the committee u or 'SUbcommittee thereof. Every person who, having been "summoned as stituted Government of the United States, and declare our a witn~ss by authority of said committee or any subcommittee thereof, ti.delity to its Constitution, which we believe to have been' willfully makes default, or · who, having appeared, refuses to answer · · · f d h lif b any question pertinent to tbe investigation heretofore authorized, shall wise1y promulgated; that it sa eguar s t e e and li erties

; be held to the penalties p.rovided by section 102 o_f the .Revi ed .Statutes .. of\ the people in ·the best conceivable manner; and we pledge of the United States. · · ourselves to support its _·constitp.ted -authorities in their every

The expense thereof shall be paid from the contingent 'funds of the , · d f Senate on vouchers ordered by said committee, signed b~ the · chairmn.n effort to preserve its institutions an to en orce its laws. thereof and approved by the Committee on . Contingent !!."Xpenses. "Second. That we pledge ourselves to support the constituted

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The resolution will be re- authorities of tlie State of Tennessee in their efforts to preserve ferred to the Committee to Audit and Control the Contingent order and enfor_ce its laws against mobs, _insurrectiqns, anar·

·Expenses of the Senate. · chists, revolutionists, and all seci:.et or a1owed. enemies of our Mr. JONES of Washin,gton. I ask that the re-solution be Commonwealth. . .' .

first referred to the Committee on Education -and Labor, to pass "Third. Tilllt we deprecate the . spirit of lawlessness now upon the necessity for its adoption. Then, of course, _ it would existing in our State,.· w)iether n;mnifested by mob violen~e, go to the Committee to Attdlt and Control the Contingent Ex- · threatened destructiveness, n.narchS, revolution, seditious teach-

. penses -of the Senate.. · ings, and the iriterf~renee wjth ' the personal ll)Jerties of any, The PRESIDEJ.'IT p1·o tempore.. Is there objection to the ref- citizen to engage in employment_ when and .where he please, re

ere:nce of .the resolution . as -suggested by the Senator from gardless of· the mand!:!tes of any organj,.zation to the contrary. Washi,ngton? _· "Fourth. That the right of the individual citizen to acquire

M.:r:. NO.ItRIS. .l\lx\ _:PJ:esid.ent, .1 lulve no objection to the ref- . and hold property is an 1naliena.ble rigbt' Jn which he shoul.d be · erence .of :the resolution · to the Committee on Education -and protected. · ' · . · · . Labor; in fac_t; -I hqv~ -no objection to the passage of the reso- "Fifth. Tlw.t we qppose the a:S unied a-qthority of either capi- . lotion; I think it ought to 'be passed. I only want to state that tu1 or labor to -organize fm· . ·selfish I>UTpo-ses, to retard 'business, though the Tesolution is, perhaps, -sufficiently broad to do what restrict production, to engage in profitee1·ing, and to interfere

, :

l i

1919. ·CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SESATE. 8269 ~ --

with-tran portation in such manner as to deprive the masses of the necesl'jaries of life. · · .

".Sixth. That we oppose immigration into the United States, except under such restrictions as will not interfere with tlle welfare of our people, our F:ystem of . gm·ernment, and our institutions.

"Seventh. That we favor the deportation of all foreigners who engaO'e in disorderly conduct who are disreputable and undesirable and we favor legislation for the banishment of all pretended American citizens who teach and practice disloyalty, anarchy, and revolution, and call upon our Senators and Representatives in Congre s to support an such measures as provide for the protection of our Government against all such per-sonages. .

"Eighth. That no unnaturalized alien sbouhl be allowed to own, hold, or inherit any real estate in the United States; th~t no person unable _to ~peak the English language should be allowed to exercise the elective francbi .. e or hold any office within the United States.

u Ninth. That all newspapers, publications, or \Yritten or printed matter intended for general reading or circulation, which is printed in any foreign language, shall be interlined with translations into English, so that the English-spea)ting people may know anc.l understand the character of literature being read hy foreigners.

"Tenth. That all public schools and institutions of learning shall be required to teach .the English language as the· leading and prevailing language of all such schools and institutions of learning.

" Eleventh. 'That a copy of these resolutions be furnislletl ille press, the United States Senators. of the State of TennesseP, and to our Repr~sentatives in Oongres~.

"Respectfully submittecl November 3, 1919. "JoHN B. HOLLOWAY,

. . "NAHOB Y. HIIJ,, ".J. H. IlAYELY,

"C01wnittee." THE MORMON CHURCH.

~Ir. SMOOT. l\Ir. President, I am not going to o cupy more than about 15 minutes of the time .of the Senate.

Fo1· over 16 years I have prud no attention whatever-to any of the false and malicious newspaper reports and statements made against the so-called :Mormon Church. The only excuse that I have to offer for doing so at this time is that I have re(!eived a request from members of a number of the principal c.lubs of the State of Utah to call the at-tention of the Senate und of the country to certain false statements publisJ1cd in different newspapers throughout the United State·.

First, I desire to call attention to an article that appeareti in the New York World of October 22, under the date line of London, October 21. This same article, I will state, was published in many other new:;;papers throughout th€ United State.. It is as follows: GIRL::>, ~lon.MO::-i CONVERT., 'VA~'r TO LJ.:A.YF. BXGT..A.ND.-F£H,T.Y ]~200 of

THF.AI, SAYS AUTIIORESS, HAVIl ASKF.D PASSPORTS SO THEY CA.."< Go TO UTAJT.

LONDOX, October Zl. Winifred Graham, the well-known English authoress, who bas done

'much in this country to expose Mormonism, told the .World correspondent to-day that fully l,:WO English girls have recently been persuaded by :uormon propagandists here to go to Utah. "During the war;• she said, " the Mormons made great headway in the United Kin~dom. I hope the American authorities will prevent the departure ot tuese girls fot· Amedca. ll'rom reliable sources I learn that there :ne 1,200 of them anxious to sail immediately. Only last week one was bound over in a London police court for falsification of a passport in her efforts to go to Utah."

Winifred Graham is the pen name of Mrs. Theodore Cory. She sails on the Balt·ic Octobm· 2!> as the British delegate to the World Citizenship Congress in Pittsburgh, which begins November 9. She will speak on Mormonism. Her anti-Mormon work here, she says; bas caused her

· to be shadowed and threatened by the \Iormons. United States consuls are on the lookout for any Mormon convet·ts. Owing to the stt·ict passport regvlations there is little chance that any of these English girls vill be able to sail. Some of the gil·ls to whom passport vises were

refused recently were suspected of being Mormon converts. Mr. President, I thought the time had arrive{} when the news

papers of the country would cease publishing such rot. How easy it is for any newspaper to send a representative to the Bureau of Immigration and find out just the number of immigrants entering the United States going to the State of Utah for any :venr in the past. and also to find out the professi.ons and occupations of the immigrants, and the different classifications of each as provided by tbe department. If the newspaper doing so wants to publish the truth it ~oull never publish such . tatements as I have just read.

I went to the department, upon my attention being called to the .newRpnper article. nncl asked for a statement of the number of immjg~:ants · for Utah for the _years of 1917, 1918, and 1919.

The statistics taken from the mmual report of the Commi~ ·ione•· General of Immigration show . ~orne interesting fact~. I have taken the St..'lt~ of Utah and compared it with the ;:)tate of

. C.olorado and the following is the . result:

I Gtah. Colorado.

Profession. l

1 1 - ------ - -------- :•-1-9-17-· 1918 1919 I 1917 1918 1919.

Professional· ........... ... _..... . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 8 (1~ Skilled laborers ............. _ ....... ____ . _ _ _ _ 96 49 (1 Miscellaneous occupations_ .... _ .. . ____ .... _. 501 202 (1

33 98

448

19 43

185 <·~ (1 (1 ·

No occupation (including women and chil-dren) .... . ........ . ... . .... _______________ _ 362 251 (1) 398 326 (1 ) .

----r--------r---Grand total ofalliDlDligrants. __ ... _ _ _ _ 965 513 588 1 977 573 ~3~ 'l'otaJ of fmm.lgrants !rom England .. _. ll8 48 (') 136 56 (•)

• Figures not available.

The above tab1e sllows that the tot.al number of immigrants witll· no · occupation-including women an<l children-going to t.Jtah was smaller on a. percentage bnt-;i · than the smue cla~s going to Colorado.

It n1 o shows tlle percentage o·f English immigrant:s of the total which went to both State~. the percentage being about the same.

:\1r. President, the Commercial Club of Salt Lake City, t.lle leauing business club of the State of Utah, upon seeing this scurrilous article against the Mormon Church publisheu throughout the United States, prepared an<l issued a statement, <latPcl NoYember 4,. 1919, entitled "Refutation issued· by the boH •·1t of goYernors of the Commercial Club of Salt Lake City," "·hich I rtE>~ire to rPacl, as follows:

NovEllBEn 4, 191!>. A :-:tatP.DH'Jlt of r efutation i sue() l.Jy tlle boarll of governors of the Com

mercial C'Jub of Salt Lake City. '!'he attention of the Salt Lake Commercial Club bas been callell to the

appearance 11;1 newspapers in the United States of a "syndicate article " bearing the date line of London, England, in some instances as "Octobe.J.· 19," from the pen of one purporting to be George Selden, writer of the English metropolis, wbicll is vicious, inconsilrtent, and maliciously faH;e in its accusations agailtst the Mormon Church. ·

This article, sent broadcast through the United States, contains quotations credited to one Winifred Graham, to whom the article refers as JJOveliRt, some of which are as follows :

"What is Mormonism doing in Englanll? It works secretly as in America and snaps its fingers at law in both countries. This verv minute the church elders have 1,200 girls ready for shipment to Utah.; ,

"The Mormon Church pays the fares and offers excellent wage:, but once it gets women over it uses them as it please . The war gave the Mormon elders their greatest opportunity for proselyting. In the absence of the men folk and because of the dea~hs of thousands of soldiers the women Qf the poorer classes fell easy victims. Secret meeting-s were held in homes that attracted the neighborhood without attracting suspicion."

"Every girl is baptizetl. They then become silent about polygamy, but they become either polygamous wives or slaves of the Mormon Church. Occasionally we hear of girls who are slaving on "Mormon farms."

The Commercial Club of Salt Lake City, Ctah, tbrougll its duly constituted board of governor , herPby desires that it be known that 1t has taken cognizanc{! of and read tbese statements, which 1t brands as being vicious in intent and so obviously inconsistent as to be thei r own refutation, and they are scandalous, pernicious, and false.

The commercial club, in line with its activities from the time of its organization, is critically persistent and thorough in its survey of conditions relating to the intere ts of our Commonwealth and is fully qualified by its knowledge of facts to thus brand these sensational stories as unmitigated falsehoods.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, commonly called the "Mormon " Church, Js working in harmony with other institutions In Utah, ecclesiastical and civic, for the maintenance of the highest attainable standard of morality, and has made an enviable record in thi. accomplishment, as also in patriotic and devoted service to the country's needs.

This commercial <:luu disavows and conllemns with di approbation equally strong the circulated falsehoods of Mormon interference· in ~tate or National politi cs. The Mormon people exercise their political rights ancl preferences in common with their fellow citizens who are not of their faith; anti this club unhesitatingly affirms that the stories allPging Mormon control of political parties in this State or elsewhere are but myths and fables, without evc.n the merit of apparent consistency to excuse their periodical retelling. ·

I.eRter D. FrPPd, presh.lent Commercial Club; n. N. Byrne, II. M. Chamberlain, Joseph Decke£t Lester D. l!'reed, R. C. Gammel, C. B. Hawley, J. C. ttoward, S. R. Inch, James Ingebretsen. D. Carlos KJmball, A. N. McKay, C. W. Nibley, F. <..!. Schramm, ::\1. H. Sowles, Charles Tyng, board of governors.

Het·e!Jy we concur in the aboye statement of tbe Commercial Club of 'ult Lake City.

John C. Cutler, forn.(>r governor of State of Utah; W. S. McCornick,. president McCornick & Co., bankers; .J. E. Frick, jusuc<.> Supreme Court of Utah; A . .J. W(>ber. justice Supreme Court of Utah ; E'. E. Corfman, chief justice Supreme Court of Utah ; Samuel . Thurman, justice . of Supreme Court of Utah ; W. Mont Ferry, mayor of Salt Lake City ; W. W. · Armstrong, United States food administrator of Utah ; Salt Lake Rotary Club, by J~w H. Har.ding. ser.retary Rotary Club, a~d by .James W. Collins, presldPnt Rotary. Club.

8270 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. N OV"EniBER 11,

~Il'. President, I .protest n.gninst the libelous press matter that 1\Iorrnon Church. Respect for authority is one of the tenet .ha been published throughout the ·country, that the ·blatantly of the Mormon Church. 'Ve need more of f:UCh people in these .heralded announcement of the falsehoods of an English writer perilous times of the ReJ)ublic; and again I would be false to of fiction has come here to tell. The church has nothing 'to every principle of justice and to every entiment of gratitude conceal. I want the people of the United States to know that as if I .failed to state at this time that when savage Indians galfar as polygamy is concerned it is dead, and scandalmongers loped along by our pioneer homes, burning and munlering, plunin the future must find some other hobby to ride. dering and scalping as they went, it was to the Mormon people

All I a:sk is that the ·Mormon Church and its adherents be that my defenseless but heroic parent · went for refuo-e and ju:dged by the fruit <>f :the tree. No one can examine the record defense . . made by that people during the World War without coming to So, 1\Ir. President, I say the Senator from Utah has t.lonc well the conclusion that no more loyal people live on this earth. No in "scotching" this falsehood, which has been given such wide call was made upon them without an immediate response, untl circulation. I believe the American people are coming at la t not only for the amount asked .for but for nearly double the fully to tmuerstand the Mormon people. Their temples, schools, mnotmt in almost every case. ·They not only furnished their fields, homes, industry, frugality, their momlity and their ..quotn of soldiers lmt in some of the calls 100 and 200 per cent patriotism testify for them in more eloquent terms than the more. Senator or I could speak. Then, again, observe their Reprc-

Mr. P1·csiclent, I would not have taken the time of the Senate sentatives in the House and in the Senate. Look at the high class to make this short statement if it had ..not been requested of me. of· public servants they send here. I ask that the 1\formon be I will say this: The signers of the statement of refutation are judged as a people, judged as a religion, us the Senator says, nt least .three-fourths nonmembers of the Mormon Church, and by their fruits; and if they be judged by their fruits the verdict they arc the leading business .men· ,of the State. It seems to me of the world will be in their favor. that the people of this country ought now to understand the It seems to me that the time should be welcomed in America true situation; and if the New York World ·or the New Yol'k when men shall not futher be assailed because of their religion :American desires to Jearn the truth about the Mormon people, ·or lack of religion. l\1en ought not further be n sailed or di -I will gladly pay all expenses of a representative of either pa-pet· ·criminated against because of their particular view of how to if it is desired to make an honest investigation. follow the . .l\1aster. America was built up, and one of the · 1 am n Senator of the United States. I represent all the reasons why the migrations ·came . from the old countries to people of Utah and :not any chnr:ch as such. 1 have never felt these shores was that our ancestors desired to find a place ·to caUcd upon to defend .the Mormon Church .against false attacks, build free and strong States where such ignoble sentiments as .because I felt tbat sooner or later the truth would be understood bigotry could not survive. by all the people: I am not -making this statement as a repre· Mr. President, I do not forget that this splendid domain of ~ ent.ative of the 1\Iormon Ohtn-ch but :as ·a United States Senator. Arizona, one of the imperial States of this Union, came into

The 1\formon Church has been .foully misrepresented from being largely through the brave exploits of the Mormon people. man.r sources in the past. I confidently look forward to the day When Gen. Stephen Kearney was beleaguered near San Diego when the Mormon ,people will be known as they are and not as during the Mexican War, and it seemed as though the Mexi-ometimes represented. cans were going to captute and annihilate him and his entire 1\1r. ASHURST. Mr. President, I am very .glad that the Senator commn.11d, it was the Mormon battalion that marched all the

from Utah [Mr. SMOOT] ·has spoken as ·he has. Jt was time for long way from Iowa into Tucson, A.riz., and occupied in 1\fexi· such a :speech. A ·matchless maker of epigrams said that .when can territory a domain we now know as the Gadsen Purchase, "once a ,lie or a :counterfeit statement gets into circulation .it is which was purchased by our Government in 1854. When the well-nigh impossible to -overtake it '"; 1l.Ild therefore I believe the commanding officer, Lieut. Col. St. George Cooke, entered the 'Senator ·has done ~a· ser.vice .to ~his -country in exposing .this in- ! Mexican town of Tucson and raised the American fia.g, he issued famous s1ander, which has been _published broadcast against ·SO ; ·a .pronunciamento, and I wish the German outragers had .read many worthy people. · that document before they invaded Belgium. The Ueutenant

When 1 read the article, ·I .felt offended because -there are in , colonel entering the city of Tucson, nea.rly 1,GOO miles from Arizona a lar.ge nnmbe.r of Mormon -people, o-r .people who belong civilization, said in his manifesto to tho people of Mexico: to the Church of Jesus Christ of 'Latter-day Saints; and I would we do not wat· upon civilians. We make war against men In uni.be false 'to .that princtple of fair play for which I have -always ' form only. The property of individuals will be held sacred. All .pretended _that I stood if .I failed at this time to say a word on civil rights wiU be npheltl. Those who obey the law and conform to rthe subject. order will ·be protected.

It .ma.y .be true tbat I .do not understand .fully the ·theology The command remained theTe some days to refresh itself and of the l\lormon Church; but, Mr. President, the first church I

1 tnen marched on to the relief of Gen. Kearney, who, ns I said,

·ever attended was a "Mormon Ohnrch. When there was no other · was beleagured and surrounded near San Diego. church w-ithin 100 miles of ·the lonely .frontier cabin where my ' So, 1\Ir. President, the Mormon people, as pioneers, as State. pll.I'ents lived, ·w:e found .-solace -aml comfort in .attending the .builders, us statesmen, as _people of industry and patriotism in Mormon CJ:mrch situated :9 miles distant. Our nearest-in fact, every department of life, compare well and favorably with the ouT only-neighbors ·for year.s were .the Mormon people. Better general mass of their fellow citizens. This much I feel ! ·neighbors no pioneer .ever ll.n.d. I am proud of the 'Mormon peo- , should have sn.id; more than that I need not say. -ple. 1 run proud of the friendship that 1 haTe for them, and that · .Mr. THOMAS. Mr. P.re iclent, I have not and never have 1 believe they have for me; and while, as 1 said before, I do not been a communicant of ·any church, and if I li\e to be as old completely understand their theology, I am .able to say here, :again as I am now, I would not change. In my :routh I was in the :Senate of ~the United States, that their church has ele- · greatly impressed ;with a remark of Gibbon, that "all religions vated many intellects and purified many hearts in roy State. are to the vulgar equall_y true, to the philosophel' equally false,

~ pioneer ·in a new -country, the l\Iormons are lmrivaled. : and to the stu.tesman equally useful," and the experience of They are sober, industrious, frugal, ·honest. They are pre· • mature years has served to deepen the impression. I haYe eminently State ·builders; and .to-da..y, if called upon to name a ! never been able to reconcile the tenets and doctrine · of all people who could most -expeditiousl;v transforJ? a desert of swlrl- ~ religious faiths with that spirit of .persecuti.on and fanaticism jn .... and ·heated sands into splendid fields and farms, I would , _they develop toward each other, and which has o many ~\esltatingly choose the 1\lormon people. In many places ' times culminated in tiestructive and decimating wars. I be· where ·once the ·cacti lifted its thorny -arms into the brazen and lie.ve in religious toleration, without any conditions whatever. Jle!lted air, Mormon industry has reared temples, hospitals, except those required by the tenets of morality and of law and Jwmes, ;factories, :and schools. order. Hence I have ·remained aloof from identification wit11

1\IoreO'\er, I never ·saw a ·Nor.mon I. 'W, W.; but I have, at . any faith. . omc eo1mty courthouses in my .State, heard disgruntled, lazy, Up to this time I l.ut\e nen~.r :found occasion to publicJy .de-

and .indolent men who ·did not belong to the Mormon Church fend the Morrr,on people, because it has not seemed nece sary; sit on the steps of the com·thouse and curse the Government and but I can not allow the occasion to pass without paying tribute ur . ..:e the President, 'While 1\iormon -citizens ·were going into the .to their morality rrnd usefulness, <not only to their own com-

S<'lrne county -courthouse to pay .taxes withoat complaint. munities, but as exemplars to the whole country in parlous Mr. OWEN. Mr. Pl·esident-- times like these. 1\Ir. ASHURST. I _yield 'for a -question. Mr. :President, when reNpect for the law is the exception and

Ir. OWEN. I ..should like to ask .the Senator if it is not a not the Tule, when the different :£orces df society nre so antagonct of the Mormons to teach and p:r:each inuus-qy and thrift'? nistic that the political structure is menaced with danger, it i~ ':\lr. ASHURST. I am able to state that industry and thrift Tef.re ·bing to note that the adherent o.f this faith have at all

are among. t the foundation .stones .{)I the 'Mormon Church. ·times been the -advocates nnd the exponents of peace, of justice. , AlJ ._ olute a-nd unquestioned obedience to law is a tenet of the of law, ancl of arfter; ~mtl however just the criticisms aime{l '

1919. CONGRESS! ON AL RECORD-SEN ATE. 8271 against former institutions, the fact remains, as established by more t11an half a century of practice, that the communities professing the Mormon faith are among the best and highest exemplars of American citizenship.

During the war there was much disloyalty in America. Scarcely any Commonwealth was entirely free from it. During the war resistance to the draft occasionally punctuated our dispatches, and the expression of toleration or friendliness to the enemy was one of the commonest of occurrences. But during that critical ])f'riod upon no occasion which I can remember did the ;>eople of Utah, Iormon and Gentile, fail to whole-heartedly. ioyally, and enthu iasticaJly respond to every call ma<le by the Government for solillers or for money. Not in a single lnstance did this people falter. Their splendid youth were given freely to our armies, and the blood of their boys sanctifies the soil of every battl~ field in France.

Every loan drive was responded to, not by the quota, but fmbeyond it, and in everything that contributed to good citizenship, to pat1·iotism, to loyalty, and to love of country, these people were eYer conspicuous ; and it is due to them, as one of the repr ,entatives ft·om a neighboring State wher~in many of these people are located, and are among our best citizens, that I should say so.

We have not many Mormons in the State of Colorado. Some years ao-o a settlement was established in what is known as the San Luis VaJJey It has grown, it has flourished, it is prosperous. Its people are law-abiding. they are industrious, they are hard working, they pay their debts. they obey and support the authorities. Bolshevism, anarchi!!lm, and socialism are foreign to the atmosphere of that community. They can not take root in such a soil.

These people are to-day, therefore, one of the pillai"S of the social, economic, and political systems of the country, who. e removal might imperil the entire structure of our social, economic, and political life. Their faith I am not concerned With; their character and their achievements are a credit to them anct an Incalculable benefit to the eountry.

1\lr. HENDEURON. Mr. President, I wish to express my UP· prova1 of and join In all that has been said by the senior Senator from Colorado [1\.Ir. Trro"!\IAS] relative to those of the Mormon faith. We have in eastern NE>vada a number of Mormon settlement.~. I have visited a number of them. I wish to say that thet·e are no better citizens · in the country than those of that faith. In one community that I know of, established over 40 year ago, there has never been a jail. I believe that is true of the others. The e people never have any use for jails. Where tbE>y go, there law and order prevail, and thrift and economy are taught and practiced.

1\Ir. Pr<'sid<'nt, the rect,rd of the Mormon people throughout the war has been without a blemish. Their sons Wf're .among t the iil·st to enli!tt and their quotn was quickly fille<t They oversubscribed their proportion of Lib rty bonds. Their pa· triotism has been of the highest order and without question.

Tbere is much that can be said in their favor, Mr. Presid«:>nt, but I shall not detain the Senate longer, as there are ~orne Senators waiting to address the Senate on the proposed te! rvation to article 10. I am glad, however, of the opportunity to express my disapproval of the attnck directed against the Mormons referred to by the Senator from Utah [l\Ir. SMOOT].

TREATY OF PEACE WITH GERMANY.

'l'he Senate, as in Committee of the Whole ·and in open executive ses~ion, resumed the consideration of the treaty of peace with Germany.

Mr. OWEN. 1\Ir. President, just before adjournment yesterday the Senator from Pennsylvania [Mr. PENRosE] asked this question:

I should like to a~k the Senator what has beeome of the 14 points? Can they be found anywhere?

1\Ir. HITCHCOCK replied: Yes; they are practically embedde-d in the trPaty. 1\Ir. PmNROSE. Oh, I have bPen unable to discover a trace of tht-m. I do not know whether that was intended to be humor, but I

think it of sufficient importance, because of th~ standing of the Senator from Pennsylvania as the Republican leader tn the Senate, to call attention to the 14 points and to the fact that they are provided for in the treaty with Germany and the other treatieN which have been made.

The first peint is: Open covenants of peaee, opPnly arrivPd at, after which there shall

lK> no private International understandings of any kind but diplo.mac_y shall proceed always frankly and in the public view.

That is covered by article 18, which reads: Every trPaty or international engagement entered into he1-ea.ftcr by

any members of thE> league shall bE> forthwith l'egistered with the secretariat ancl shall as soon as possible be publishE>d by it. No such treaty or international engagement shall be binding until so registered.

Articles 19 and 20 relate to similar matters, which I shall ask permission to insert withont reading.

The VICE PRESIDENT. Without objection, it is so ordered. The matter referred to is as follows :

AnTI CLE 1!).

'l'be assembly may from time to time advlse the reconsideration by members of the league of treaties wbic.b have become inapplicable and the consid~ation of international conditions whose continuance might endanger the peace of the world.

ARTICLE 20.

The members of the let'..gue SE>verany agree that this covenant is a.cceptpd as abro:,ptting nJl obligation.." or understandings inter se which are inconsistent wtth the terms thereof, and solemnly undertake that they will not hPreafter enter into any engagements inconsistent with the terms thereof.

In case any men1ber of the league shall, before becoming a member or the league, hnve undertaken any obligations inconsistent with the tPrms of tbis covenant, it shaJ1 bE> thP duty of such mPmber to take immediate stPps to procure its release from such obltgations.

Mr. OWEN. Point Xo. 2, in re:,uard to navigation of the seas, was dE>liberately ·left open to future interpretation because of the <'O.ntroversies which related to it in Secretary Lansing's letter of November 5, 1918, and under the league covenant this question can be adjusted.

Point .No. 3 is as follows: The removal, so far u.s possible, of all economic barriers and the estab·

lishment of an equality of trade conditions among all the nations consenting to the pea~ and associating themselves for Its maintenance.

That is covered by article 23, (e), as follow : Will make provision to secure and maintain freec1om of communica·

tlons and of transit and equitable treatment !or the commerce of all memllers crf the league.

Point No. 4 is as follows: _.AdPquate guarantees given and taken that national armaments will

be reduced to the lowest point consistent with dom~stic safety. That will be found covered. by article 8, to which I . call at

tention, to wit : 'l'ho members of the league recogniZe that the maintenance of peace

requires the reduction of national armaments to the lowest point consistent with national safety and the enforcement by common action o.f: international obligations.

I will ask leave to insert the remainder of the article without reading.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. \Vithout objecti~ it is so ordered.

The matter referred to is as follows: The council, taking account of the geographical situation and eir

cumstanc s of each State, hall formulatE> plans for such reduction for the consideration and action of the several Governments.

Such plans shall be subjf':ct to reconsideration and revision at least every ten years.

After these plans shall have been adopted by the several GovernmPnts, thE> liuUts of armaments therein fixed shall not~ exceeded without the concurrenee or the council.

The members of tbe league agree that the manufacture by pdvate enterprise of munitl'ons and tmplt .. ments of war is opPn to grave objec· tions. The councU shall advise how the evil effects attendant upon such manufacture can l.Je preventPd, due regard being had to the nt->cessities of those members of the lt>ag11e which are not able to manufacture the munitions and implements of war nPcessary for their safety.

The members of the league undPrhike to lnterchan;;::e fun and frank informntion as to the scale of tht>tr a.rmamPnts, tht->ir military, naval and air programmes and the condition of such of their industries as are adaptable to war-like purposes.

l\1r. OWEl'l. Point No. 5 relates to a "free, open-minded and absolutely impartial adjustment of all colonial claims: based upon a strict observance of the principle that in determining all such questions of sovereignty the interest of the popu· lations <._-oncerned must have equal weight," and so forth.

That was provided for by mandatories under article 22, which I will ask leave to insert without reacting.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Without objection it is so ordered.

The matter referred to is as follows: ARTICLE 22.

To those colonies and territories which as a consequence of the late war have ceased to be under th~ sovereignty of the States which formerly governed tbem and which are inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditlous of the modern world, there should be applied the principle tbut the WPLI-being and development of such peoplt>s fm·m a sacred truRt of ctvllsation and that securities for the performance of this trust 13bould be embodied in this covenant.

The best method of giving practical effect to this principle is that the tutelage of such peoplPs should be entrusted to advanced nations who by reason of their t'f>sources, their experience, or their geographical position can best undertake this responsibility, and who are willing to · ac(·ept it. and that this tutelage should be exercised by them as mandatories on behalf of the league.

Tbe character of the mandate must dit!'er accardlng to the stage of the development of the people, the geographJcal situation of the territory, its economic conditions. and other slmila1· circumstancPs.

Certain communities formerly belongina to tbe Turkish Empire have reached a stage of rlevelopment where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognised, subject to the l"endering of administrative advice and assistance by a mandatory nntil such time as they are able to stand alone. Tbe wishes of these communities must be a principal consideration in the selection of the mandatory.

8272 .CONGRESSIONAL REOORD-.SENATE. :NOVE:\fllER 11 '

Other· peoples, especially those of Central Africa, are at such a stage that the mandatory must be responsible for the administration of the territOrJ under f'!Ollditions which Will guarantee freedom Of conscience and religicn. ubject only to the maintenance of public order and morals, the prohibition of abuses such as the slave trade, the arms traffic, and the liquor traffic, and 'the prevention of the establishment of fortifications or military and .naval bases and of military training of the natives for other than police purposes and the defence of territory, and Thill also secure equal opportunities for the trade and commer·ce of other members of the league.

There are territories, such as Southwest Africa and certain of the South Pacific Islands, which, owing to the sparseness of their POJ?Ulation, or their small size, or their remoteness from the centres of civilisation, or theil· geographical contiguity to the territory of the manda-

. tory, and other circumstances, can be best administered under the Jaws of the mandatory as integral portions of its territory, subject to the safeguards above mentioned in the interests of the indigenous population.

In every case of m·andate the mandatory shall render to the council an annual report in reference t9 the territory committed to its charge.

The de$ree of authority, control, or administrati.on to be exercised by the manaatory shall, if not previously agreed upon by the members of the league, be explicitly defined in each case by the council.

A per·manent commission shall be constituted to receive and examine the annual reports of the mandatories and to advise the council on all matters relating to the observance of the mandates. . Mr. OWEN. The e'"acuation of Russian territory is the sixth point. That has been demanded by the Entente Allies and conceded by Germany and its allies.

Point No. 7 is as follows: Relgium, the whole world will agree, must be evacuated and restored,

without any attempt to limit the sovereignty which she enjoys in common with all other free nations. No other single act will serve as this will serv<:! to restore confidence among the· nations in the laws which they have themselves set and determined for the government of their relations with one another. Without this healing act the whole structure and validity of international law is forever impaired. .

'l'bat has been provided for, us everybody knows, and reparations are being paid now.

Point No. 8 is as. follows: All French territory should be freed and the invaded portions re

stored, and the wrong done to France by Prussia in 1871 in the matter of Alsace-Lorraine, which has unsettled the peace of the world for nr.,1.rly fifty years, should be -righted.: hi order that peace may once more be made secure in the interest or alL .

That has been covered fully, and nobody disputes it. Point No. 9 is as follows: A readjustment of the frontiers of Italy should be effectM along

clearly recognizable lines of nationality. That has been accomplished substantially, although under

great difficulty and with some friction and criticism. Point No. 10 is as follows: The peoples of Austria-Hungary, whose place among the nations we

wish to see safeguarded and assured, should be accorded the freest opportunity of autonomous development.

That has been abundantly provided for, and the people of Bohemia, Hungary, and Austria are now in position to carry out this principle.

Point No. 11 is as follows: Roumania, Serbia, and Montenegro should be evacuated ; occupied

territories restored; Serbia accorded tree and secure access to the ea ; and the relations of the several Balkan States to one another

determined by friendly counsel along historically established lines of allegiance and nationality; and international guarantees of the political and economic independence and territorial integrity of the several Balkan States should be entered into.

That has been carried out by the armistice and by the treaty, a. far as at present humanly possible.

Point No. i2 is as follows: The TUl'kish portions of the present Ottoman Empire should be

assured a secure sovereignty, but the Qther nationalities which are now under Turkish rule should be assured an undoubted security of life and an absolutely unmolested opportunity of autonomous development, and the Dardanelles should be per·manently opened as a fl·ee passage to the ships and commerce of all nations under international guarantees.

No man has any doubt that the treaty with Turkey will proyicle for carrying out this principle.

Point No. 13 is as follows: An independent. Polish State should be erected wbi~h should include

t.hc territories inhabited by indisputably Polish populations, which should be assured a . free and secure access to the sea, and whose political . and economic independence and territorial integrity should be guaranteed by international covenant. ·

. That has be~n provided for, , as far as p~·esenUy practicable. But as far as the covenant has provided, article 10 _pro-vides for a guarantee by .international covenant of the territorial integrity and political independence of Poland among other member

·nations. , . Point No. 14 is as follows, and I call the attention of the

.Senate, and particul~rly the Senator from Pennsylvania, to the fact that this .is .a serious obligation entered into on the field of battle -as a means of obtaining peace, to · which I take the liberty. of.directing his a·ttention.

Mr. PENROSE. · I beg the Senator's pardon. l\Iy attention was distracted for a moment. 1\Iay I ask the Senator to repeat the statement he made? · ·

1\Ir. OWE~. I was calling attention to the comment "\"Vhich the Senator from Pennsylvania made yesterday afternoon, whether in humor or not I really did not f.ully understand, in I_

which he stated that he could not 'cliscoYer a trace of the 14 · points in the treaty and covenant.

Mr. PENROSE. I can not. Mr. OWEN. Then I have just pointed out to the 'enate

and I am sorry the Senator's attention was diYerted, because I can. not now repeat it-where those 14 points are covered by the i treaty and by the co-venant. While the Senator was engaged in conversation a moment ago I was calling attention to number 13, about an independent P.olish State which "should be erected , which should jnclude the territories inhabited by indisputably · Polish populations, which should be assured a free and secure · access to the sea,. and whose political and economic independence and territorial integrity should be guaranteed by international covenant."

To that all the Entente Allies subscribed--Mr. PENROSE. Nothing has been done to Polc.wd except to

insult, neglect, and harass her. . Mr. OWEN. On the contrary, Poland has been given an in· ,

dependent status as a nation; has been given access to the Baltic Sea through Danzig, and is abundantly protected in its territory and independence by the treaty; and the covenant, provided we carry out the tenth article of the covenant, which provides for the political independence and territorial integrity of all member nations, will fully meet this end.

Mr. PENROSE. Did the Senator from Oklahoma notice an official statement from the Polish people, published at length in the New York Times of yesterday, expressing in most em· phatic terms their resentment and anger at the way they have been treated?

l\1.r. OWEN. I did not; but I am now calling attention to what this treaty provides, and I will continue, with the Senator' permission, to · do that.

Mr. PENROSE. Danzig has not been given to Poland, and, , according to the gossipy reports from Paris, the so-called neck 1

connecting Poland and Danzig was just big enough to be easily wrung. If the Senator would like to have this article read, I shall be glad to read it.

Mr. OWEN. I would be glad to have the Senator read it in his own time.

Mr. PENROSE. That will be entirely satisfactory. It is so absolutely contrary 'to the cheerful picture which the Senator ' paints that, while I did not intend to have it read, I feel it incumbent upon me now to take such action when the Senator concludes.

:Mr. 0\VEN. I will give the Senator that opportunity. Mr. PENROSE. ·I was not in the Chamber when the Senator

began his remarks. I should have been here had I known he · was going to take the fioor on these points. I do not know what the Senator said about open covenants--

Mr. OWEN. I called attention in that case to the particular provision of the covenant of the league of nations which abundantly covers . that point.

Mr. PENROSE. What about the meetings of the big four? Were the meetings of Mr. Wilson and the other three open and public? ·

Mr. OWEN. That was not within the scope of my discussion, and I prefer not to be diverted to . a discussion of the big four at this time. ·

Mr. PENROSE. I can understand that the secrecy of the big four is a delicate subject.

1\fr. OWEN. The Senator may entertain what opinion he pleases about the delicacy of that subject. ·

Mr. PENROSE. I am glad to be permitted to do so. I entered the Chamber al ·o a little late to learn the explanation of the Senator regarding the freedom of the seas.

Mr. OWEN. I explained that status when the Senator was out of the Chamber.

1\lr. PENROSE. As I was not here at the time, can the Senator enlighten me now in a few words?

Mr. OWEN. I shall be glad to do so. The letter of Secretary Lansing at that time stated that there were so many different interpretations as to what "freedom of the seas" meant that the Entente Allies preferred to lea>e that for further eli -cussion and did not commit themselves on the point.

Mr. PENROSE. There was nearly as much doubt a that created by the wide range of development between being too proud to fight and peace without Yictory and goin.,. to Paris and eating them up.

1\fr. OWEN. I do not care to divert this matter into personal comment and partisan criticism of the Pre ident of the United States. · · ·· ·

·!

1919. CONGRESSIONAL- RECORD- E· ·:ATE. 8273 Article 14 of th.e 14 points-and I calf th{}' Senator's. SIJ€cia1l tered into a contract on that day;· that Italy, Fruncc., and Japan

attentfon to it-provides that- , entered into an agreement on that .Iate to. make a treaty of a ..:t general as oelation o:t1 nations must be formed! under sp-eeifi:e cov- general a.ssoeiation o:f nations to- pro:vid'e- speci.tic ca:venants fa1·

enan.is forr the purpose of atfot"ding m-utnal guaranties · or twlitl~l tnde· the purpose of affording mutual guaranty ot po-lttica inclet1Cnd-P ~denc::e D.IKl tenitorial integrity to great anrl sma.U: States ahk.c~ ence and territorial integrity to great and small nations alike.

The.re was a declaration of principle by· the President of the. l\fr~ PENROS . ·who- made the c ntra-et for the United U.nited States in which the S'enate acqui-esced. States·?' ·

l\Ir. REED. 1\lr. P1·esident, l. do not want to interrupt the! :3-Ir. OWEN. ~be ontract W it. made through the Execntiv Senator-- department.

Mr. OWEN. I ould- prefer that the. enator wonld not inter- 1\lr. PENROSE'~ What right llllS· the 'bxeeutiivc uepartment to ruut me, make· any contra:et binding the- United States?·

1\fr. REED. But I would like to ask the Senator one ques- l\fr': OWEN. The Presi-dent of the United States· in declaring tion. By what official act did the- S nate acqui~sce? these pdndples dec tared them to Congress: itself in a message .JIDl-

Mr. OWEN. The acquiescence was by persi-stent and con- uary 8, 1918, in the face of the Congress, with the Senator from tinuet:l silence when this declarati'ou was made to: the world and Pennsylvania. ami evel·y other· Senator in his s.eat Listening to these was acted. on: by the Entente Allies. and was accepted by th-em proposals- and: these principles, ami not a. word; of pFotest did and was set forth in the letter of the Secretary of State to the the Sena-tor from Penn ylvania. or any otbeu Senato-r utter Germnn authoritieN, through the Swiss minister, on the 5th of against the declaration of principles upon which we made tbis November, 1918, as follows: • conttfi:Ct. He was announcing \'I' hat the United States stood for

SIR: I have tbfr b.onor to request you to tl-ntkmit tile following com~ and the-conditions on which peace might be- eoneluded. Congres · munication to tb~ German Government- accepted these principles and. the world proelainieu them.

A..t a time when we tiesired them tQ lay down thcir arm we 1\!r . .PE..'N'ROSE. That is not a grant of authority. The Pr-est-_put the conditions upon the people b~ which they <::lid lay down dent has uo m·ore authority to bi-nd the- United States than. I their arms. 1f ever there was a contract between nations,, it have,. and far be it from me to conve~ the-impramion that I con-was: the contract of November 5, 1918~ Clll" irr e:v ry propo ition ad'vaneed in tb:e- Senate against whiell

:UrL REED~ l\lr. Pl!e ident- I do not rise and protest. :u11. OWE1 · 1:£ the. Senator please-, I pr fer uo t · be inter- lUr. OWEN. l\Ir. Pre ident,_ the Senator did not disco:ver

rup.ted.. a traee of tlie- 14 points in the treaty. which was made, and I l\fr. REED. Very well. aru calling- his attention to the fact that the~ loom very Jru·"'e 1\tr. OWE .. ~ I continue the reauing: iu the treaty .. In my note of Oetol>er 23, 1918, I advised you. th t the· President "f PENROSE B · r

had trun'Ullitted hi orresp<mdence w.ith the Ge-rmnn authorities to th~ ..t r~ · · · Y omts lOll. Governments with w.hicll the Government of the t•..UtP<l States is u.s o- l\lr_ OWE.~."~ Well, the Senat01 can ind'ulge in wit, but I am ctated as a belligerent. with the suggestion that, ii those Governments d('aling '\Vitli this matter seriously. wore disposed! to eJieet peace upon the- terms and. principle indicated, ~fr. PENROSE: So am L their military advisers ano the mllitary advis rs of the- United States· 1\~·-. O\VEN. Oh, no., 1 hat·dly thl'nk • ..,"" co'~nator 1·s serious. be as-ked to submit to the Governments associated against Germany the J..U: - w.1......, ~ necessary terms of such armi ti':ce as wauld fully protect the interests l\lr. PENROSE. As an American I feel fiu.rnifiated and out-of the peoples involved and insure to the associatPd Gove:rlllllent~> the · raged at the conduct of the E:s:ecutive: a£ the Unite(} States· in unrestricted power to safeguard and enfGree the details eli the peace th

1•8 1

.ns+nn.ne--to which the German Government had agreed·, provided they deem-ed ul.ll"-

such an a.nnisti~e- pos ibl from the- military point of view. Mr. OWEN. This. is denundation, not argument. Thfr Pre id:eut is now in n'ecipt of a memorandum of ob ervatlon l\lr~ PENROSE. Going to Paris without authority-, ob e ed

by th allit>d Governments ou this co.rrespondenee, which. is. as follows: ,...,1.th an e!!oti'sti'cnl 1·~~ about. a . pea"'e CO'V' . . """an+ which no one "Th£> allied Government have given careful con idera:tion to tbe cor- >Y ~ u. u~rt "' ....,. v

respondence wbieb has pa~ed b tween- the Pt-es:ident of the United wanter.l or cared about. Stati"S an<L the German Govecnme-nt. Sub,ject t-o the ql'la:lifications 1\Ir. OWEN. That is denundation~ uo1i. argument. which foflow, they uedare their willingness to make p.ea:ce- with the .. Ir·. nENROSE. It i~ bot"!... Governm<'nt of Germany on the terms of peace laid dowu in the Presi- .1) Jr .... ... uc. dent's addre~s to Congr<' of Jannu.ry, 1918, and' the principle of :lHr. OWEN.. It is valid as neither~ settlement enunciated in his subsequl?nt addre ses. They mu t potnt The 14· puint:s ~et up a declaration of prinel·ples to which out. however. that clau e 2. relating. to. what is usually de ctibetl as the 8

· ' · freedom of tbe seas .. is open to- various. interpretation-s, some of which France- and: Great Britain and Italy and .ra:pa.n agreed. they eoulw ·not accept. They must, therefore. r .<rrve to th1>mselves- Thfls, tourteenth: point, which I; emp-hasi.Z~ · af!ain, is tJlis: c.o,mplete freedom on. this subject when they; ente1r the peace conference. A g('n.eral' as oci.ation or- nations must be. fo.rmeu under speciffe

•• Further, in the conditions of peace laid down. in. his address to Con~· covenants for the purpose of. affording mutua.lr guaranties of poJitical gress of .Tanu~y 8, 1918; the President declared that invaded tPrri- independencfr and' territorial integrity tOi :p;ea1l a,nd. small! States· alike.. toties must be restored as w11lli as <.>vu:cuated and freed, and the allied Go'irernments feel that no tloubt ought to· be all-owed ta ex:i:st as to what When yon destroy article 10 you: d·o- n~t earry out tlJat. printhis provision implies. By it thOJZ understand that compensation will eipJe a!ITeed' on by an the Entente• Allies. with each other mid be made l,ly Germany for all d'ama.ge done to the civilian population of = tbe Allies -and' thelr property by the aggression of Germany by land, with Germany· a . a condition on whi-eh pea:ee> was bought on the by sea, and from the>" ::tir." battle fi-eld.

So tltat the Entente Allies and the United' States mad'e- an :ur. NORRIS obtained the· floor-. agreement with Germany involving these 14 point ~ all of which 1\lr. PENROSE. Will the Senator" from Nebraska permit m~ are covered in the tteaty and. in the covenantL to say a worc4 as the Senator from {)..k:Jah<lma [Mr .. Ow&""J]

Mr. NORRIS. l\1r. President-- referred' to me in his remark--s? The PRESIDENT pro tempat:e. Does the enatol:" from. Okln:- 1\fr. NORRIS. So fur as I can without. losing the. floor-, 1

homa vield to the Senator from Nebraska? will yield to · the Serrato!'" from Pen:D$Y1Vaniu:. l\1r. ·owE-:q. For a question only. Tbe PRESIDENT prv tem}Jore, The-.Senator fro.m Pennsyl-M:r. NORRIS. Does theo Senator- think that theo contraet o vunia~

entered into at that time by all the nations was or ought to have l\Ir. PENROSE. I think it- would' be interesting for the Sen-been binrling on an of them?· ate to hear-it is not very long--

Mr. OWE'N. I do. 1\fr. SHERMAN. Will the Senator· ti·om Pennsylvania,, before 1\Ir: NORRIS. 1 agree:. with the Senator. Then let. me It he replieS' tO' the Senator from Oklahoo1a,. [)ermit me to. mak~· a

him this que tion : If. that were true, md it not set aside any request for unanimous consent in connection with the consi<lel!a-prior agreements that would eonflict with it?· tion of· a bill?· ·

M'l"! OWEN. I think so. Mr. PENROSE. I think I will sit- dow.n, 1\-Ir. President, a:nd: 1\11~. NORRIS. And if that be true, would it not then set take an opportunity to speak wiJ.en 1 have' the ~oo:r in my own

aside the secret treaties that as a matter- of fact were- given full right. effect at the peace confei:ence? The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Tile S~n:rtox from Nebraska

Mr. OWEN. To the extent tlley ere· iir conflict;. I think so [1\fr. Noruus·)1l1as- yield"ed to- tlle- SenatoF from Pennsylvania. Tllere is no difference about a reasonable interpretation of what :i\lr. NORRIS. I have the fh>or, but J yield to. the Senator this contract is,. but I am calling attention to the fuct that the: from· Illinois· tO> introduce his· bill:. United States and France- and Great Britain and Italy ami :!UI. SHERJ\!AN. It is· not fol!' tl'le- puf}m'se- of introducing a Japan agreed at tflat time in order to- induce Germany to lay bill th-at I desh-e the- floor, but ft fs fot~ ·he- purpose of asking down li.er arms~ We b(}ught our pea.ce· by these p1·omises~ The· unan-imaus. consent that at 8- o'clack t!J'-nfglit the senate meet promises became obligations of ~ first magnitude: to collSider Ho-use bill 982'1,. which is: known: as the Metropolitan

Mr. NORRIS. That is right. WUI, the Senator:-- police ~i1L. and' to consider no 0~1 business at tfutt time. Mr. OWEN. I do not want to be U:rt~rrupted· furt:lrer, if the-; Mr:. NORRIS. If I can yieT~ with<mt losing the- floor, r :vieldi

Senatot· please, because I do not w.ant to b.e diverted. from the. · to the! S~natgr· foo.~ that purpose. points I am making. I am making the point that we entered into· Mr: SHERl\IIAN. Thu.t i-s my pm·poi'lt". a contract on the 5th of November, 1918; that Great Britain en- Mr. NORRIS. Very well.

8274 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. N OVEl\IBER 11,

Mr. SHERMAN. I ask a moment to make a statement along with the request for unanirnpus con ent.

T 1e PRESIDENT pro tempore. The -Senator from illinois present a request for a unanimous~onsent agreement, which the Secretary will state.

The SECRETARY. Mr. SHERMAN ·asks unanimous consent that the Senate meet at 8 o'clock tllis evening for the express purpose of considering the District of Columbia police bill, so called, and to transact no other business at that sessi()n. .

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Is there objection? Mr. I.ENROOT. l\1r. President, I wish the Senator from Illi

nois \Vould make his request upon condition that the Senate is not in session at that time in the consideration of the peace treaty.

Th_Jr. SHERMAN. I !lave no objection to that change. Mr. KING. I object to the request for unanimous consent. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator from Utah_ ob-

jects. Mr. SHERMAN. The Senator from Utall objects. I wish to

fix the responsibility and no longer have if carried by the District Committee of the Senate. The bill involves a matter of the very gra\est concern. The police of Washington have. withdrawn from their affiliation with the American Federation of Labor. They have come before the District Committee and have, I think, made . a remarkably good impression. upon the comnlittee. They constitute a body of men numbermg . nearly 1000 · winter is approaching, and some of therri with five chilili·en 'are living on $90 a month, or are attempting .to do so. I think the responsibility for the failure to pass the bill after it has come here from ·the oth-er House ought no longer to be carried by the District Committee of the S~nate. Senators who wish to object to the consideration of the bill can do .so, and I can relieve myself and my colleagues on the committee on both sides of the Chamber from that responsibility; but in fairness this bill ought to be considered.

1\lr. HENDERSON. ·wm the Senator from Nebraska yield to me for just a moment?

Mr. NORRIS. I yield to the Senator . . Mr. HENDERSON. I am greatly interested in the bill re

ferred to .by the Senator from Illinois [Mr. SHERMAN]. I believe what the Senator from Illinois says is true, that we sllould llave .early action on the matter. We have been working on the treaty until 5.20 to 6 o'clock in the afternoon, and I should like to see- the Senator from Illinois at half past 5 o'clock this evening renew his motion for tl;le consideration of the bill. It might then be {'onsidered between the hours of 6 and 8 o'clock this evening.

Mr. LODGE. Mr. President, if I may make a suggestion, when the hour comes at which we usually recess the Senator from Illinois can move that the Senate recess until 8 o'clock for the purpose of considering the bill named by him at that hour. That ought to be done. The bill ought to be disposed of.

l\fr. KING. Will the Senator from Nebraska yield to me? Mr. NORRIS. I yield to the Senator from Utah. 1\lr. KING. I wish to make a suggestion to the Senator from

Illinois that an arrangement be made whereby we meet tomorro~ morning at 10 o'clock for the purpose of considering the bill. That was the point that I had in view.

Mr. SHERMAN. I have no objeetion to the hour, whether it be in the evening or forenoon.

1\Ir. KING. I thought probably we should be iu session until 7 o'clock this evening in the consideration of the pending treaty and I preferred to meet to-morrow morning.

l\f.r. 'KNOX. May I make an inquiry of the Senator from Illinois?

Mr. SHERMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. KNOX. Is the bill likely to provoke any considerable

debate? Mr. SHERMAN. It is likely that it will. I understand that

· several Senators are opposed to .it as a general proposition. Mr. KNOX. - Then, the considera~lon of _the bill will take

some time. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Objection is matle to the

request of the Senator from Illinois, and the Senator from Nebraska [Mr. Nonnrs] is. recognized. _

Mr. NORRIS. Mr: President, I wish to say merely a word in reply to the Senator from Oklahoma [Mr. OwEN] about ~e contract which he says the conference entered into when they began the negotiation of the treaty and, in fact, when the armistice was agreed , to. I called attention to that contract previously 1n the Seriate and placed in the RECORD what I believe constituted a binding contract between the nations ; a contract that was the basis of the armistice; the contract under which J:lostilities were susp_end_e~. I agree with the Senator

from Oklahoma that a contract was made, at least, so far as the President could make such a contract that would bind him in the peace negotiations, and a contract that superseded every other contract or treaty between any of the nations which would be in conflict with it. If that be true, if we start with that hypothesis, Mr. President, then it is my contention, and I do not believe it can be successfully disputed, that the peace treaty is a violation of practically all of the terms of that contract.

· The first of the 14 points proclaims the idea of "open cove~ nants openly arriTe-d at," but tlle first thing that was done at th peace conference was to close the doors air-tight. Nobody was allowed, particularly · in America, to ascertain what happened within. 'Vhen this complete work was given to the world it was discovered that, in ·ef:Iect. it simply provided for giving legal operation and ef:Iect to all of the secret treaties that .had been made pri01' to the armistice.

Mr. KNOX. Mr. President--The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Does the Senator from Ne

braska yield to the Senator from Pennsylvania? Mr. NORRIS. I yield to the Senator from Pennsylvania . . :Mr. KNOX. Did tile Seriator from Nebraska notice in yes

terday's publications that Clemencea-q.•s principal secretary in a public speech in Bordeaux had stated that the reason the sessions were held in secret was because the President of the U1iited States insisted upon it as against his own judgment?

Mr. NORRIS. Yes; I regret to say that is true. Our own President himself violated at the first opportunity one of the most important provisions of the international agreement; and not only that, but we got from· Europe a great deal of information which the President refused to give us here. But, Mr. President, it is knQwn now an · over the world that the secret treaties between England,' France, and Japan by which Shan· tung was turned over to Japan were in · absolute violation of the 14 points and of that proClamation, and hence of the agreement under which hostilities were suspended and the armistice entered into.

Mr. 1VATSON. And of the self-uetermination ·of people.s. Mr. NORRIS. Yes; they were an absolute violation of that .

portion ·of tbe 14 points that provides for self-determination. The treaty gives life to every secret treaty made by the nations during the war, and in every instance it is a violation of that contract made by all the nations by which the m.·mistice was brought about.

Mr. President, I intendeu when I took the floor to say some-thing in reference to the pending question. Yesterday a great : deal of time was devoted-it almost seemed like a. filibuster · . ·• to me-by the friends of the treaty in of:Iering motibns the good faith of which has been openly questioned and not depieu. l\1y colleague, the leader in favor of the ratification of the treaty without . amendm~nt or reservation; waxed . warm in showing how article 10 protected the ·Uttle .nations, the new nation.. whicll had been born and whic11 were establii3hed by the p~ace treaty. Mr. President, that is the ·. talking ·point; that is a good thing to talk about; but the real reason . for nrti-cle 10 is not in reference to the little nations, the new na-tions that were born by this treaty and brought into existence. Personally I believe article 10 ought to be stricken from the league covenant portion of .the treaty, apd I am going to vote for every motion that tends in that directi.;>n to take away its power and its ·influence.

It was not to help Czechoslovakia a:p.tl Jugo-~_lavia and the other small nationalities that article 10 was incorporated in the treaty. The real object, the prime obj~ct, of article 10 is to maintain the world supremacy of the British Empire,

··and the next object is to maintain the Japanese Empire wltb, all the territory that she acquired and whi~h she will acquil·e by virture of the treaty. Article 10 is the article that re· quires the Government of the United States to underwrite the boundaries of a new world that were made in s~c.ret treaties during the war between the various mitjons of the world. All' of such secret · treaties were in direct violation of the agreement entered into by all the natfons· on both sides of the war, including our own, by virtue of which the armistice was brought about· and the war ended. Article 10 was not put into the league covenant in order to help the weak nations. It is there to stifle the cry of freedom from Ireland ; it is there to keep . in subjection the 400,000,000 of people in India; article 10 is there to compel Egypt to remain as .a· part of the British Empire ; article 10 is in the treaty . in order to nail down the coffin of ·Korea · and hold Shantung. in subjec· -tion to 'Japan, and we ~:re the · guarantors of it all. By its terms we ·are bound to turn a deaf ear to th~ struggling cry o_f ~~eedom, no matter from what part of the world it may

:l

1919. CONGRESSIONAL R.EOORD-SENATE. 8275 come. and we mortgage thereby the lifeblood of unborn A.mericm1 boys to stifle this cry and uphold the cruel aristocratic reign of· greedy kings and pagan monarchs the world over.

Mr. SHERMAN. Mr. President, before the Senator takes his seat, may I ask him if he has considered in connection with his remarks a statement recently made by the adviser of the British -treasury that Europe, not including Great Britain-he enumerates other nations-will require within the next 12 months $8,000,000,000 of credit, which lle invites us under article 10 and otller articles to underwrite? With wealth double that of Great · Britain and five · or six times that of others of the principal nations, ir;t that underwriting of a financial character, in addition to. that of a governmental character referred to by the Senator, the United States, as the one great solrent nation in this concern, in which we apparently have bought an interest if we ratify the league, will undertake to carry the great burden of an $8,000,000,000 credit to rehabilitate industrial Europe as referred to in the interview by the treasury adviser of the British Empire.

Mr. NORRIS. 1\lr. President, I ha\e not tried to exhaust the reasons for article 10 as it ·applies more particularly to Great Britain and the other great nations of the world. I have not mentioned the financial aspect of it; but the Senator from Illinois in his question calls my attention to it; the internew to which he allude refers to it. I haye not said anything about Persia to-day; but, Mr. President, we are loaning money to Great Britain at 41 per cent. She has taken O\er Persia, and is loaning it to Persia at 7 per cent. The Persian people are going to bear the burden of a great portion of the money that we loan in order that the Government to which we loan it may make a profit out of it financially. We are ·going to bear the . burdens of the . financial world as well as those I have mentioned.

Mr. LENROOT. Mr. President, I am sure every Senator was a ·tounded at the claim made by the Senator from Oklahoma [Ur. OWEN] that the 14 points have been complied with in this treaty. I did not suppose there was a single Senator upon either side of the aisle who would make that claim. Practically all of the speeches on the other side of the aisle relating to this subject have been apologies for the nolation of several :·of these 14 points; and it remains for the Senator from Oklahoma f0r the first time to make the claim that the 14 points are found in this treaty, when the Se~ator from Oklahoma must have known, as every intelligent man, woman, and child in the United States must know, that there are .many_ of these 14 points that have been most flagrantly violated; ·and that is especially true of the first one, with reference to "open covehants openly arrived at,' ~ when we are .now told by Premier Clemenceau that it was the author of that point who himself insisted upon its violation.

Mr. 'V ALSH of Montana. 1\lr. President--The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Does the Senator from "'is

cousin yield to ·thc Senator from l\lontana? Mr. LENROOT. Yes. 1\Ir. WALSH of Montana. I am uispose"d to share tile view

eXpre ;sed by the Senator from IDsconsin that the 14 points are· not as much in evidence in the treaty as they ought to be, or at least not as much as I should like· to see them there; but I will ask the Senator if lle does not tl1inl\: that fact is due, to no little extent, to the fact that the President of the United States, who promulgated them, .did not receive in his own cotmtry the sup-port that he might reasonably expect? · · _ ·

·Mr. LENROOT. I "\Yill say, in reply t o that, that the President recejved support by acquiesence in all of these 14 points at a time when th"ere were many of us who, if we had felt free to do so, would have criticized some features of the 14 pbints; and yet .Senators now· say that because ·we were silent af that time, if they bad Qeen in thiS" treaty in full, we ought to refrain from even criticizing any of them. .

Mr. President, it is well known that wllile the great majority did ag~:ee with the principles -of most of these 14 ·points-and I was one of them-at that time, in the interest of this counti·y; in the interest of earryi.ilg on the-war, it -would have been n:iost unfortunate if we bad had a division in this country at that time and a controversy over what was to follow the winning of the war, as to what should happen, as to determining at that time all of the principles that should govern· in the making of the peace. · - l\lr. ·NORRIS and Mr. SHERMAl'l" addressed the Chair.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Does the Senator frotn Wiscoh in yield; and if so, to whom?

l\1r. LENROOT. · I yield -to the .Senator from Nebraska. 1\lr. NORRIS. May I not also suggest to the Senator from

'Vi ·consin that the President issued the proclamation of the 14 points, and the President, the same man, · made the treaty on behnlf of the United States, so thnt whatever -e>:toppel 01' whnt-

LVIII--fi22

ever objection may come to Congress it certainly can not apply to him, because it is the same man who ga-re utterance to the 14 points who made the treaty? ·

1\lr. LE~"'TIOOT. I was just going to come to that and say, 1\!r. President, that so far as the first point is concerned the Senator from Montana can not claim that the President failed to receive support in the Senate of the United States for that point. Indeed, Senators on this side of the aisle at all times indorsed that point, and the President himself was the one who insisted upon its \iolation. •

Mr. WALSH of Montana. 1\lr. President, is it not a fact that while the President was struggling at Paris to get recognition of the 14 points in the treaty, they were made the subject of constant derision upon the Republican side of this Chamber?

Mr. LENROOT. I do not know that that is true. · 1\fr. WALSH of Montana. I will assert it is a fact. 1\fr. SHERMAN and Mr. REED addressed the Chair. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Does the Senator from \YiS·

consin yield; and if so, to whom? Mr. LENROOT. I yield to the Senator from Illinois. Mr. SHERMAN. Mr. President, I want to inquire if the

Senator from Wisconsin, upon considering all of the remarks of the Senator from Oklahoma on the 14 points, got the same im· pression that I did-not that he was insisting that they were vital and possessed virility in this discussion, but that he was resurrecting the dead and attempting to galvanize them into a semblance of life? They made that impression on me.··

1\!r. LENROOT. Of course the point that the Senator from Oklahoma endeayored to make-and that is why I am speaking upon it at all-is that because the last of .the 14 po.ints emb.odied the principle contained in article 10, a contract was made, and we are bound by it; and the point I want to make is that we are not bound by that article, especially when it is shown that the. other points were clearly violated in this treaty, and the President himself was n party to their violation.

The next point is freedom of the seas. Can any Senator find with a microscope anything in this treaty fulfilling that declaration of the freedom of the sea~? Is it not admitted by everyone. ; that it was deliberately abandoned by the President of the United i States, and that be never made even an attempt to secure in this treaty anything with reference to that point? ·

So with disarmament. The fourth point reads that adequate guaranties shall be given and taken for disarmament. There is no guaranty of any kind in this treaty for that, except in the · case of Germany and the other countries who are not members of tlle league. ·

And so I might go on. I have on a previous occasion analyzed , these 14 points; and with the utmost generosity in favor of the l construction that the points hav·e been complied with so far as ' possible, we find that 4 of them have peen deliberately vio· : lated in this treaty; we find that only 6 of them, by the utmost stretch of the imagination, can be said to have .been complied with ; and we find that 4 of them are not mentioned at all in the treaty, because they relate to the boundaries of Italy, Czechoslovakia, and other countries with which this treaty has nothing to do. · ·

1\!r. PHELAN. 1\fr. President--Tile PRESIDENT pro tempore. Does the Senator from Wis

consin yield to the Senator from California? Mr. LENROOT. · I yield. : Mr·. PHELAN. There seems to be much s~licitude about the

1 14 points . . I myself have been very much concerned; and I should like to ask the Senator froin Wisconsin, in view of the 1

circumstances, whether·he would support a reservation of this ! kind, which' I have just drafted, and which I will submit and

1

ask that it lie on the table: Inasmuch as the 14 points, so 6tUed, as declared by the President

of the United States, were accepted as the basis of peace by all of the ! chief belligerent nations, the sole rese.rvntion being the interpretation on 1 the part of Great Britain of the clause relating to the freedom of the i seas, the United States reserves the right to interpret the covenant of , the league and the treaty of peace in harmony with the principles laid 1 down by the said 14 points, and does not consider itselt bound to· any 1

line of conduct. military or financial. in con1lict therewith.

I should like to asl\: the Senator if he would favor a reserva· tion of that character?

Mr. LENROOT. I should want to give that matter some con· sideration, l\1r. President; but I must confess that I am amazed' n t its being offered by the Senator from California. . Mr. PHELAl~. I do not know why the Senator should be

amazed. Mr. LEl."'-rROOT. Because I had tmderstood tltat the ·senator

from California was for this treaty; Is the Senator in favor ; of this reservation? ' .

8276 CONGRESSIONAL REOORD~. SEr ATE. NOVEMBER 11,

?llr • . PHELr\N. I am in favor of interpreting the treaty and the covenant io the ligllt of the principles embodied in the 14 points, and I am setting up a torch llere by which they may be l'eftd.

1r. LENROOT. I could quite agree with the Senator upon that~ but. as I understoQd bi reading of the reservation, it goes much turtter, and provides that the United States shall decline to be bound by anything in the treaty that is inconsistent with the 14 points. Is that the Senator's position?

l\1r. PHELAN. That is my position. Mr. LE TROOT. If it is, I must say to tb~ Senatm.• tllli.t I

am surprised at bis having voted against the reservations that have heretofore been proposed and adopted.

Mr. PHELAN. If the S enator 'Will specify nny partieuJar · provision that he con iders not in harmony with these pr~ciples--

Mr. LE'r\TROOT. The one that is now pending is certainly of tbat character, becau e article 10 pro>ides tb.at we guarantee the territOiial ·integrity and political Independence of nations whose boundaries are fixed and who e t•ights are fixed in the clearest violation of the 14 points. Then I am glad to know tllat the Senator lotends to vote for this re ervation to article 10.

Mr. PHELAN. I stated the other day, in the course of an nddre , uta time when the dismemberment of China was being discus~ ed, anr1 much olicitude was expressed for that country, that doubtless one of the purpo es of article 10 was to prevent Jap:me e aagr~sion In .-uia. Now, there is an instance where article 10 \Yill save the weaker nations and the smaller nations from tM aggn.ssjon of the areater nations; and · in that campaign, ·hicb pu sibly might occur by reason of aggression, all the natiDns n iU be united. I do not anticipate under article lQ that all the Mtions will ever bind them elves together in actu:ll warfare, becau e the mere knowledge that they are ready to act in harmony .v111 prevent war, and article 10 in that light will be one of the pJincipaJ weapons in the covenant by which war may be prevented. I do not have any great apprellensions about any e"il lnfiuence growing out of article 10 on that u~count.

lr. LE . .JROOT.. Let me see if I understand the Senator's position, - 1 gather from bim that be is in favOl' of m·tiele 10 as it stands; and article 10 as it stands will protect Japan's po ·on of Shantung, \Vhicb is in clear violation of the 14 points. Now, the Senator, if I unders~wd him, in a reservation that he propose , would relieve the United States from that; lmt when we eome to article 10 be insists that he proposes to vote for this article, which will compel the United States to pJ·otect Japan in its po es ion of Shantung and, if China shall attempt to secure Shantung for hers~lf, that he will fight, not upon the ide of China but upon the side of Japan.

Mr. PHELAN. I do not know that the Shantung case should be discussed here again. The Shantung case consists simply in a lea tnmsferred to .Japan by reason of her eon quest of Shantung, wbicb was at that time, so far as the lease is concerned, a German posse sion, and had been so for 21 years. I suppose Japnn could invoke the aid of the league under article 10 for the protection of her rights, so acquired and so conceded to ber by an exchange of notes betw~n her and France and Great Britain and Italy, and even Ru~i:U. I think Japan is perfectly secure in her po1:=session of those rights, and I think, furthermore that she will comply with the request of the President and keep her own promise that she will return them in h~r own way reserving only .certain railroad and port privileg~ .. so ~t t11er~ will be no parting of soYereignty. China doubtless will reco r her sovereignty of that peninsula.

Howewer, that is a mere incident in a great war; and, for my part, I prefer to keep Japan on that side of the water rather than on thi side; .and if an indul"ence of this kind would lead her to exploit Asia rather than America, if it must be a choice betw en the two, I wo1lld rather give her a fi~ld in Asia.

:M.r. LENROOT. In other words, I gather that the Senator's position 1...,, then, that by a gene1·al reservation he would relie•:e the United States from any obligation imposed in the treaty that i in violation of the 14 points, but when it comes to a ca e of a specific violation he is willing to indorse the violation.

1\Ir. PHELAN. Mr. President, the Senator, I think, puts me in o. fal e po ition, because I have souaht to expLain that the Sllilntung case is not in point,. because Shantung has been already acquired by Japan, and it has been removed from tll~ field of discussion by reason of the fact that all of the great power except the :United States have accepted the situation. . Mr. LENROOT. So have they accepted all the other provisions {}f the treaty that the Senator now, by re.servution, asks to be relieved from.

1\lr. PHELAN. No; I do not follow the Senator. The United .States, maintaining the political independence of countries now

e:rl ting, and their territorial integrity, find· that ulllmtung has actually been taken from Chinn i.n this war by an :J.Ct of var, .

1 which is confirmed by treaties with all tlle otb r beillgel'ent powers except the United States.

1\fr. LENROOT Ah, but if the 14 points are inviolate. , ere.1 not all of those prior trenbes abrogated by the acc~ptanee of the ·

14 points? l\1r. PHELAN. Tll:tt is a question which I nm not read to

nn wer. They were not, however, abrogated in term . llrlr. LENROOT. Let me, then, ask the Senator another ques-

tion. The fifth of the 14 points reads: · A tree, open-minded, and aliSoluLety lmpa1·tial adjustment of all I

colonial claims, ba ed upon a strict observance or the principle that tn determining an such questJons of sover{>ignty the interests of the populations conc>erned must have equal eight with the equitable claims of the Government wh.osc title is to be determined.

Now. the Senator says that .Japan having gained Sb.antunO' by . conquest, it is all right, although the fifth point denounce ttny 1

such acquisition. Mr. PHELAN. l\1r. President--The PRESIDEI\TT pro tempore. Does the Senator from Wi

con. in yield to the Senator from California? .1\lr. LENROOT. I do. :ur. PHELAN. I think from the liberal principles expressed ;

by the Senator, and his uoubtles sincere desire to t-econ truct ' the ;•;rorld on the principles of the 14 points, he can not object to . my reE=er,ation. . It is quite immaterial, so far a the dl CUJ siotl is concerned. how, ln one instanee or ·another, the 14 points, it enforced, :would ehange tbe constitution of the leagu or the terms of the treaty. l\Iy only desire in offering thi reservation is to give tho e who will finally interpret the league and the treaty a light by which to read it, that it shall set up tb e principles to which we are all devoted, and endeavor to ha e those men who will ultimately interpret the treaty interpret it on the lines which we -so ardently d~sire.

1\lr. LENROOT. 1\Ir. President, I very much hope that the Senator will introduce such a t·eservation, becau e it will ce.r-tainly help to clarify the Senator's po~tion, at lenst as to the extent to which be is willing to modify the obligations of t h1s treaty. But, Mr. President, I want to suggest to tlle Senator from California that with his reservation in the phraseology 1n which he presents it, we are relieved of all obligations in violation of the 14 pClints, and the very first of the 1:4 points consists of the promise thnt these sha!l be open covenan openly arrived at. It is admitted that this whole treaty was made in . secret. There were no open covenants. They were not openly arrived at; and, as I under tand the Senator's r ervation, if lt . would relieve us of any obligation under this treaty that wa not in accord with the 14 points, it would relieve us ot every obligation under the treaty. . . But, l\Ir. President, I rose to make this -point: The Senator

from Oklahoma [Mr. OWEN] attempted to e!':tabllsb that here was 11 contractual relation growing out of tbe aeceptnnce of the 14 points, and therefore we are morally bound to accept the provisions of article 11. But it became necessat·y for him, in , ordet· to sustain that position, to attempt to show that the 14 . points bad been complied with, and the moment that lt is hown that any of them bad been violated then the obligation, if any ' there was, upon the United States to accept the provi ions of the 14 points was absolutely done away with and avoided. No , one can contend that the parties to a contract may violate nll the provisions against them and then hold the other party to the contract to a provision that may be in their favor. Nothing could be more elementary. Conceding to the fullest extent the initial obligation under the 14 points, there is no obligation j upon the United States ln this treaty to accept a ingle one ot

1 them, and that is particularly true witb reference to article 10, when the othet· parts of the points of Pr ident Wi on have ! been so flagrantly violat~d, and the violation of <me of them insisted upon by himself.

Mr. SMITH of Georgia. Mr. President, I was very much interested in the debate the latter part of yesterday afterooo~ and especially in the views expressed by the senior enato.r ' from Nebraska [Mr. HITCHcoCK], from which, however, I differ. The distinguished Senator from Nebrask expre~ ed . the opinion that thls reservation is a "direct and offensh·e repuclia tion " of a statement in the covenant of the lean-ue; that , it is a "direct and obnoxious" repudiation of the spirit of the league. Mr. President, I hope it is a direct repudiation of part of article 10. for a part of article 10 is very obnoxious. Anythina less tllan a repudiation of a part of article 10 does not Ie.av: this treaty where it ought to be ratified. And if article 10 is to be retained Ullchanged or the treaty not ratified, then I do not think t11e treaty will be ratified.

Now, let us see just what article 10 <loes. True, it has been frequently read to the enate, but I wi. h it read and reread,

1919. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 8277 until the first part of it sln,ks into the minds of the people of this country, so that they will appreciate the necessity of a reserva· tion which cuts out part of article 10. ·

I do not understand the reservation to be a mere construction or interpretation. With me it means more than an interpreta· tion. It means the removal of a portion of article 10 to which I object.

It provides : The members of the league tmdertake to r espect and prescn-e as

against eA1:ernal aggression the territorial integrity and existing political independence of all members of the league. In case of any such aggression. or in case of any threat or danger of such a~gression, the council sball advise upon the means by which this obligation shall be ful-_filled. ·

Let us see just what this means. "The members of the league undertake "-that is to say, the

United States undertakes--1\Ir. HITCHCOCK. Oh, no. 1\Ir. Sl\fiTH of Georgia. Yes; the United States. When you

sny " the members of the league," it means the United States as one of them undertakes.

Mr. HITCHCOCK. But, 1\Ir. President, that is just exactly what we object to. You assume that the United States has the whole burden. It means the United States, Great Britain, Italy, France, and all the other members of the league.

Mr. SMITH of Georgia. I do not assume that the United States has the whole burden, but I do assume that the United States as one of the members of the league undertakes, and if the others fall down we must carry out the obligation.

Mr. HITCHCOCK. It is a joint and several obligation. Mr. SMITH of Georgia. It is a several as well as a joint

obligation, and when we say the members undertake, the United States, if it becomes a member with that language in the covenant, undertakes-undertakes to do what? "To respect." I am perfectly satisfied with that part of it. I wish to respect the territorial boundaries and existing political independence of all the members of the league. I do not wish to see my country seeking to acquire the territory of other countries or breaking down their governments. But this is what I object to: We undertake to preserve, that is to say, to protect against "ex· ternal aggression, the territorial integrity and existing political independence of all members of the league." The United States undertakes to protect the territorial integrity and political inde· pendence of each member of the league ngainst external aggression.

That is not all, however. That is the definite obligation. But there is more that helps us to understand how we will protect it, helps us to u·nderstand how quickly we inay act. The article proceeds :

In case of any such aggression. or in case of any threat or danger of such aggression, the council sllall advise upon the means by which this obligation shall be fulfilled.

That is to say, we first assume a new obligation, not our old obligation, to Poland, to the Jugo-Slavs, and to the CzecboSlo\~ks, growing out of the war; but now we are to assume a new obligation to every member of this league.

1\Ir. BRANDEGEE. l\fr. Presldent-1\fr. SMITH of Georgia. Not alone to protect it. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Does the Senator from Geor

gia yield to the Senator from Connecticut? 1\lr. SMITH of Georgia. I yield. l\1r. BRANDEGEE. I wanted to suggest to the Senator thnt

in my opipion be states the case perfectly correct; but I think the idea bas not been sufficiently dwelt upon, that the undertak-

. ing to protect and preserve is not simply that we conh·act that we will do whatever is necessary to help the country whom we are trying to protect to protect itself, but that we guarantee the resu Its. We undertake to successfully preserve it.

Mr. SMITH of Georgia. Absolutely. You can not protect unlf!. s you do protect. 'Ve are to prevent any interference with the territory of members of the league through external aggression . It does not have to be all external aggression. If external aggression is a part of it, we must protect it. We must protect it and preserve it. Now, I will follow out the obligation ;.'\nd .'ee how great it is. . l\11·. 0\VEN rose.

Mr. SMITH of Georgia. Does the Senator wish to ask me a question?

Mr. OWEN. I wanted to ask why the Senator insisted that' this was a ne'v obligation? Does he ignore the fourteenth point?

1\Ir. SMITH of Georgia. I do not consider that the 14 points place an obligation upon the United States of any kind, and I do not consider that they have been carried out.

1\ir. OWEN. Does the Senator think that asking Germany to lay down her arms on the basis of those points imposed no obligation 1

Mr. SMITH of Georgia. If it created an obligation, it cre-ated an obligation to Germany to give her the treatment promised by those 14 points. I do not desire to discuss that, because that is not the question now involved, and I do not understand that even the fourteenth provision went to the length to which this article goes.

Mr. LENROOT. May I suggest to the Senator that it created no obligation unless all the obligations were complied with.

l\1r. SMITH of Georgia. Unquestionably that is true. If they created an obligation to protect against external aggres· sion the countries of the world, they obligated us to protect them only when each country, and each part of each country, was governed according to the wishes of the inhabitants of that country. Take Egypt, for example. It would be a guaranty · on our part to protect the citizens of Egypt only when they were exercising the privilege of self-determination.

Under the 14 points it would be an obligation to protect the Chinamen of Shantung against external aggression by the Japanese. It would be an obligation to see that Koreans were set free, and that we would then protect them in their freedom against external aggression. ·

These countries have been denied the pritilege of self-d~ terminatien; they have been left subject nations, and now article -10 obligates members of the league to do just what the 14 points of President Wilson provided should not be done.

l\Ir. BRANDEGEE. 1\Ir. President--The PRESIDING OFFICER (l\Ir. K&"'JYON in the chair).

Does the Senator from Georgia yield to the Senator from Con-necticut? -

Mr. SMITH of Georgia. I yield. Mr. BllANDEGEE. I want to make a suggestion to the

Senator to show how individually and particularly binding this -obligation is upon each and every member of the league, of which we are to be the most important. Will the Senator loQk at article 11? Any war or threat of wur its not a matter ~f concern · to the members of the league, b.ut to the whole league. But here it i'S each individual member who make these obligations jointly and severally.

Mr. SMITH of Georgia. Undoubtedly the language differs. In article 11 it is the league -as a whole. In article 10 it is the members of the league, thereby binding them individually.

There can be no question that · the correct construction of section 10 makes it a joint and several obligation, and we can read it, "The United States, aided by the others to the extent that they see fit to aid, but nevertheless the United States. undertakes to protect against external aggresl:lwn." · Where does it carry us? Something over a hundred years

ago France helped thirteen Colonies win their independence, If the nations of the world had been members of the league then, the balance of the members would have been called upon to come to this country and help England keep the Colonies subject.

Let us sec how far it goe··. Thi is not a proposition that we will carry out existing obligations to- the Jugo-Sla\s or the Poles. The Senator from Nebraska [l\1r. HITcHcocK] appeals in their behalf.

We have no actual obligation to the Jugo-Slavs, but I might be perfectly willing, with England, France, and Italy, to asswne for a limited time an obligation to them. I object to· the proposed treaty with reference to France because Italy is left out. Italy was one of the four great nations, including ourselv€s, that helped to whip the Germans. I would be glad to see the nations which whipped Germany make arrangements for a limited lengtll of time to protect Poland and Jugo-Slavia or the CzechoSlovaks if they will behave reasonably well and giT"e an oppor· tunity to co so.

But that is not article 10. A.rticle 10 obligates us to protect the present territorial boundaries of every one of the 32 nations members of the league as well as all that join it hereafter. There can not be a war that may arise in the future into which this article will not carry us.

\Ve start with about one-half of the world outside of the league. A war between any member of the teague and an outside country would call us into the broil. It might force the balance of the world into a league against this league. But in every case practically in which there is a war hereafter we obli· gate ourselves to take part without knowing what it will be, without having a chance to consider it, without the opportunity to pass freely upon the question when it arises of whether we ought to enter war. The moral obligation to enter all wars should be cut out of article 10, or the treaty ought to be defeated.

Let us go a little further and see where this takes us. Take the case of India. There are over 300,000,000 people in India. There arc people of the same nationality outside of India. Sup-

8278 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. N OVEl\ffiER 11,

pose they combine with the people of India and undertake to throw off the English control of India. This would be a ca e of external aggression. \Ve most send our troops there to main· tnin the present government if external aid contributes in any way to the uprising.

Take the case of Egypt. There are matlY Mohammedans in Egypt. Suppose the Mohammedans from the outside--and tllere are over 70,000,000-should come to the aid of the people of E~ypt. There are 13.000.000 population in Egypt. There are 35,000,000 population proper in England. Suppose outsiders should come to the assistance of the Egyptians in an effort to guin their freedom. We obligate ourselves to send our boys there to fight until we defeat them.

I have already referred to Shantung and Korea. If outsiders seek to help drive the J aps out of Korea or Shantung, our boys are obliged to go and .fight to stop it.

Let us take the case of France. France has Algeria and Tunis ond lndo-China. France bas 49,000,000 subject people. It in the onward progress of the world a few years hence we are still in the I ague and any outside people eek to aid one of these people to hake ofi' French control, we are obliged to heJp hold them under that control. ·

I wish my country to re.,pect the territorial integricy of every country, but in the condition of the world it is unreasonable to pledge our boys to maintain the present status.

The Senator from Nebraska [Mr. HITCHCOCK] said that this reservation was offensive. that it was obnoxiou~ I am not gi>en to using e..'{treme terms. I do not think they really strengthen debate. If I were I might well use his two words and say that the article he defends is offensive and obnoxjous. I want to say that no man can defend lt before the American people; no man can take a mixed audience in the United States· with an opponent only partly his equal and defend placing nn obligation upon the United States to send our boys throughow; the world to protect and preserve existing territorial boundaries. How many wars will it mean? All of them. How many men will it tal{e? T'housands a"nd thousands of them. I know my friend from Nebraslta believes the treaty will end all wars. Well, he has a very hopeful disposition. Three months ago the Senator knew the treaty was going through without a reservation. He is no truer prophet about war than he was about this treaty going through in that way. We mu t not pledge our boys to the future world wnrs misled by the hope that wars have ended. ·

If we turn to the statements of the President, we have the word of the President that the world is to be Involved in wars and wars and wars. As late as January 25, 1919, he declared In the Pari conference :

We are here to see that eVPry people in the world shall choose lts t~wn masters und govern its own destinies, not as we wish but as they

is h. We nre about to see. In short. that the very foundations of this war

are swept away. • • • Those foundations were the- holding together of empires of nnwHllng subjects by tbP duress of nrms. • • •

And nothing les.. than the emancipation of the world from these th1ngs will accomplish pe~ce.

These were noble sentiments, but they have not been accomplished. Have we bad an emancipation? We freed a few people from German rule, but over half of the world to·day is under the domination of foreign "tule. Little of the world has been emancipated, and by the President's declaration there will be no peace, there can be no hope for peace. but wars and wars are still ahead. Do not let the people of this country be fooled by th supposition that the league of nations stops war. I hope that the cone rt of nations, using their moral influence, may check war. 1 hope that wars may be lessened; God grant it; but do not pledge your boys to die in ev-ery war that comes, upon the delusion that no more will come.

Some think the league will be so strong no nation or people will dare defy it. Is the leafrtle as strong as were the forces again t Germany when the war began? The United States will take the place of Ru sia, and Ru sia by its proximity seemed as great a menace to Germany as the United States. Th~ experience of the world shows that the nations even of

the league may b~ome involved in wars among themselves. They are now engaged in acts we can not honorably approve. 'l'he language of the covenant, filled with uncertain and doubtful provisions, wil1 of ltRelf furnish the causes for wars.

Why, the Pre-Sident, when be recel\'ed the degree In Paris, declared what kind of a league of nations he wished. He said:

l\Iy conception of a league of nations Is just this: That It shall oper· ate as the organized moral force throughout the world, and tbat whenever or wherever wrong ~nd aggression arE' planned or contemplated th1s searching Ugbt o! conscience will be turned upon tbem, and men everywhere wilJ ask. What ar£> the purposes yon hold in your b~art8 against the fortunes of t-he world?

I am for that kind of a league. I am for that kind of an \.association of nations. I am glad to enter with them to use

moral force to save the world, to offer something better than war, to check armament, to check the construction of fleets. But this provision in article 10 which I criticize is not one for moral force. It ls the pledge of lead and sabers. It is the pledge of guns., or armies and battleships.

I can not vote to put a moral oblig::;.tion upon my country to ; enter the wars of the world. Unless that is stricken out I shall not vote for the treaty. It is all well mid good to do voluntary missionary work the world over. It is all welJ ·and good for men who wish to do so to "go and fight the battles of the balance of the world. But when it is proposed for our country to assume an obligation to draft our boys and send them With· out their consent into all the wars of the world I shrink from it. I can not agree to place such a burden on them.

Are we willing for our own boys to be sacrificed 'l I fear it is the willingne s to sacrifice somebody e1s 's boy that leads to this kind of a proposition in a treaty? It is the genero.ity of giving up the life of some other woman's or man's son that gets votes for this t..;nd of a treaty. 1 undertake to say that yon can not assemble a thousand men, called to an open meeting in any community in the United States, and submit to them the question as to whether they wish the moral obligation placed upon the United Stutes to send our boys under article 10 into the wars of the world for an indefinite time, that would not answer, "No:• I trted this upon two large audiences in my own State. I first invited the mothers who were wiLling for their boys to go in under article 10 to indic-ate it by rai"'ing their bands. and not a hand went up. Then I invited the ment \vith the same result. You can not put article 10 unchanged on the American people. They will not stand it. If you put lt on the American people, they will get out of this league at the first opportunity.

Mr. JOHNSON of SDuth Dakota. Mr. President--Th~ PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the Senator from Georgia

yield to the Senator from South Dakota? 1\lr. SMITH of Georgia. I yield for a question. Mr. JOHNSON of South Dakota. I merely wish to ask the

Senator i! onder the provisions to which be objects all the other nations of the world who are members of the league nre not similarly obligated provided the treaty shall be ratified?

1\lr. Sl\IITH of Georgia. YE·s; those who are in the league. 1\lr. JOHNSON of South Dakota. Then, I de ire to follow

that question with another, and to ask the Senator if the time might not come when the othe1· great powers of the world might be of great benefit and a protection to the United States?

Mr. SMITH of Georgia. No; never. This ls not intended to prote~t the United States. We do not own colonies ·all over the world; we have no people in subjugation; we have no territory that needs protection by outside aid. It was not intended to serve the people of the United States but to let them defend the balance of the nations, committing us to do so whether their cause be just or unjust.

Mr. JOHNSON of South Dakota. Mr-. President--Mr. SMITH of Georgia. I yield further to the Senator from

South Dakota. · l\fr. JOHNSON of South Dakota. I merely wish to say to the

Senator from Georgia that I concluded his line of argument would indicate the position which he has just stated : but I can not in any way agree with the position which he takes.

Mr. Sl\IITH of Georgia. I regret that the Senator can not; I am sorry he is o wrong.

l\1r. GORE. 1\lr. Preffident--The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the Senator from Georgia

yield to the Senator from. O,klaboma? Mr. SMITH of Georgia. Yes. Mr. GORE. I will ask the Senator from Georgia if he does

not think if Mexico should ever recapture Texas that article 10 would obligate Haiti, Liberia, Hedjaz,. and Siam to come here and help us to take it back?

Mr. SMITH of Georgia. We an know it would be a real serv.ice to have Hedjaz bring her people over her to defend us.

Of course, nobody supports article 10 for any such object; of course, n(lbody means that we need protection on our soiL It is needed to make us carry the burdens of the world protecting every other country. I might be willing to help feed them and give them our money; I am not complaining about the financial burden, although it will be very great; but what -I am com· plaining about is sending our boys all over the world to <lie .. That is what I · object · to. Let the ·occasion ar1ser if the si tua· tion is such that we are needed again to help protect France, we will answer tbe call. I we are needed somewhere else to help the weak, if we ought to do it we wiD do it; but do not undertake to put a moral obligation now that binds every future Con· gress to furnish our. bo.ys to every wart and that settles the question in advance.

'

1919. OONGR.ESSION AL RECORD-SEN ATE. 8279

The Senator from Nebraska [Mr. HITcHcOCK] said that it , waB not our place to settle the matter for future Congresses. 'He misapprehends article 10. He said lt was not our duty to ·

II determine the question for future Congresses, and yet he is supporting article 10 by which we now decide for the ConI gre~ses of the future. All we are asking by the reservation is l to prevent article 10 from imposing n moral obligation upon , f-uture Congresses.

Now, l\fr. President, let us come to the language of the reserval tion. It is not so strong as I want it; it does not go as far as fi desire. I \IOUld have been glad for the reservation to have . gone to the extent of freeing us from any obligation to use rom· I mercial pressure. The reservation that I offered several weeks

I ago went that far. The economic pressure is still permitted by this reservation. Well, I do not mind that so much; that is a

i mere financial loss. The thing which I really ea.n net consent ~ to is to pledge the lives of our boys to involuntary sacrifice i under the draft, sending them all over the world to die on foreign soil. ' Now, let liS come to tllC langnuge of thi reservntion. It is very mild:

3. The United States assumes no obligation to preserve the terri' toritll integrity or political independence of any other country or to lint('rferc in controversies .between nations, whether members of th9 lcn.gnc or not, under the provisions of article 10-

It {loes not say that we will uot act. If the time comes when there is occasion, when Congress feels that we should act, we

·will act. We simply say we decline to put the moral obligation fin advance upon Congre s; that we decline to assume a prior obligation; that is all-or to employ the military or naval forces of the United States under

:any artkle of the treaty for nny purpose. unless in any p::trtJcular caS{) ·the Congress • • • shall by act or joint resolution so provide.

There is a -clause of the reservation th-at I left out that does not really affect its meaning, but it is explanatory of "\\hat we leave to Congress, and it reads:

Congress, wWch, mul<>r the Constitution, has the sole powe1· to declare war or authorirl:e tbc employment of the milit:uy or navnl forces of tbe United States.

Quite an .argnmrot has l>een made to show that tile President can use the military and naval forces of the United States ,without waiting for Congress. Of course, he can in many instances • .and he is doing it right now. It never was meant by this language to say that be eou.kl not. This language refers iback to the provisions with ref-erence to the treaty and the ·treaty obligation to usc our soldiers; it is qualified and limited in it:~ meaning to the treaty obligation to use our soldiers, so tbat they should not be sent abroad unless Congress authorized it. It would be made clearer, perhaps, if wo ndded " for such purposes," but that language is immaterial. Tlle real feature of the proviso i that it {leclares we shall not assume in advance ,the obligation of protecting the territorial integrity and political ·independence <>f every country which is a member of the league, ·a.nd of every piece of property held by members of the league. 'Thr e <>f the members of the league are the great holders by .control of f01·eign people. One-half the world nearly is held 1to-da.y under domination by Great Britain, by Japan, by !France, and by Italy; yet, under article 10, if any external .aggression was aiding the people of a particular locality, we 'would send om· troops there to maintain the existing political 'government.

Now I come to the amendment o:fferetl by the Senator from ·Montana [Mr. W A.LSH]. He desires to add:

And the United States hereby celeases an members ol the 1 ague !rom •1any obligation to it under artfcle lQ and deelines to participate in tUlY proceeding by the council authorized thereby.

Of course, that goes far beyond the reservation; that would ·make the reservation offensive. To vote for that would be allmost to vote against the treaty. Tl:w.t is so plain that it ean not be misunderstood. Any one who •otes that "the United States hereby releases all membexs of the league from any obligation to it under article 10 and declines to participate in any iproceeding by the· council authorized thereby , declines to go !into u conference, declines to hear their views, declines to use !the moral power of the league, or to consider a particular case and determine what should be d{)ne. . I run unaUerably opposed to a portion of article 10. It ought

1not to be left in the treaty. I have no idea it will be left in the

1treatr. I have no idea any treaty will be ratified which commits the United States to the wars of the world. I hope no

jsuch treaty will be ratified. I do not desire to discuss the subject further-· Mr. PENROSE. Mr. President, I had hoped to have an Ol1por-

ttunity to reply to some statements which were made by the senior Senator from Oklahoma {Mr. OWEN] this morning on the 14 points, but another Senator got the floor, nnd I postponed

what I had to say until later in the day. I do not now intenu to take up the time of the Senate with any lengthy statement in reply to the Senator's explanation about the effectiveness and Vigorous application of the 14 points, but he did I'efer among the points to that pertaining to Poland. I happen to have here from the New York Times of yesterday a Yery remarkable statement signed by some of the le..<tding men of the new Polish Republic, which is most impressive to my mind. I have shown H this morning to several Senators, who have takep an active part in the discussion of the t reaty, and they think it not only worthy of being inserted in the REcoRD, but that it ought to be read to the Senate. While it will be generally recognized that I am not in the habit of detaining the Senate or of cumbering the RECORD with newspaper clippings, yet this being the official statement emanating from the Polish Republic, only as late as yesterday so far ·as its publication in America is concerned, I will ask that the Secretary read it.

It seems to me it is an ample answer to the declaration of the Senator from Oklahoma that the pledge to Poland had been generously and successfully carried out. I am not given to sudden enthusiasms, but I really think the statements in this official declaration are worthy of careful consideration. It illustrates beyond anything else how ignorant the Sen.ate is regarding the different situations in Europe, for I think any Se.na4

tor· who takes the trouble to listen to the reading of this docu 4

ment will admit that it contains many remarkable statements. which he, perhaps, luls not had caUed to his attention. I ask th-at the Secretary read the statement.

The PRESIDING OFFICER. There being no objection, the Secretary will read as requested. . Mr. LODGE. I suggest the absence of a quorum.

Th-e PRESIDING OFFICER. The Secretnry will call the roll

Tile Secretary called the roll, and the following Senators answered to their names: Ball Hn.rdlng McKelJat· Beckham Harris MrLean Brandegce Harrison McNary Calder Henderson New Capper llitcheock Newb~ry Chrunberlain :Johnson, Cillif. 1Tortis Colt Johnson, S.Dak. Nugent Culbet·~on .Tones, N. Me-x. Overman Cummins :Jones, Wash. Owen "Cnrtis Kellogg Page Dial Kendrick Pemose Di1lingh:un Kenyon Phipps Edge Keyes Pittman Elkins King Ransdell Fletcher Kirby Reed France Knox Robinson Frelinghuyscn La Follette Sheppard Gay Lenroot Simmons Hale Lodge Smith, Ariz.

Smith, Gn. Smlth,Md. Smith,!:!. C. Smoot Spencer Sterling Sutherland Thoma Townsend Trammell Underwood Wadsworth Walsh, Mas::;. Walsh, Mont. William Wolrott

1\Ir. J011i"'ES of 'Va hington. I desire to announce again, in connection with this roll call, that my colleague, the junior Senator from Washington [Mr. PonmEXTER], is necessarily absent on account of illness. I will allow this notice to stand in connection \Tith other roll calls that may be made during the afternoon.

:Mr. REED. I desire to announce that the senior Senator from Tenn€8See [Ur. SHIELDS] is ab ent on account of illne s, bein..,. confined to his room.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. I desire to announce that my colleague [.Mr. BANKHEAD] is absent on account of sickness, nnd that he is paired on the votes to-day with the Se~tor from Washington [Mr. POINDEXTER). I wish this announcement to stand for tbe day.

The PRESIDING OFFICER. Seyenty-three Senators have answered to their names. There is a quorum pre....c.-ent. It has been ordered that the article sent to the desk by the Senntor from Pennsylvn.nln [Mr. PENROSE] shan be read.

The Secretary proceeded to read th-e article. During the reading,

Mr. OWE1'{. l\fr. Pre ident, I should like to ask the Senator from Pennsylvania if it woulcl n<>t serve his purpose to haYe this matter inserted in the RECORD without taking the time to read it?

1\Ir. PENROSE. It would s rve my purpo e, ::ur. Presiaent, if the Senator- from Oklahoma will read it.

Mr. OWEN. I shall be delighted to read it. Mr. PENROSE. I asked to have it read at tbe request of

several Senators, who told me that it was a most impressi.documcnt It is signed officially by some of the leading mugnates of the Polish Republic, and it is so absolutely contrru.:y to the glowing statements the Senator from Oklahoma mn{le con· eerning the treatment of Poland that I thought it pertinent to put it in, anD then invite him to reply to it.

8280 .. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. -~; . "" NoVE~IBER .11;

.. Mr. DWEN. The -Senator :fl!om Oklahoma -made no ~lowing.f yoke without any. plebiscit_e, such a /measure having been dic-. statements .about the treatm_ent of Poland, except .to poin-t out- tated by purely humanitarian considerations. Have not the that the e tablishment of Poland as a State had been agreed Allied powers the same regard for us as they have for African to by the 14 points, and that that had been done. 1 have no negroes? · And if not, why·? objection to its continuing to be read, if the Senator desires it. "'The Vistula, a great and exclusi~ely Polish river, the tribuI tlwught it would save . orne time to have it printed in the taries of which . irrigate almost half of the territory of the RECORD. Polish State, has been internationalized. Rivers like the

Mr. PENROSE. I do not desire it. unless some other Sena- Danube, the Rhine, the Elbe, the Oder, though also interna-tor. wants it read. · It is a very remarkable document. tionalized, are not essentially German rivers; the tributaiies

l\Ir. REI<JD. Let it be read. of the Oder .River, for instance, are mostly Polish. And one 1\lr. OWEN. It is being read to empty benches. must not forget that in that · war the Poles were not defeated 1\JJ'. Pl•JNROSE. The Senator from Missouri asks to lHlYe it as the Germans were. The Moldau River is but a tributary

read. of the Elbe, and the Czechs benefit more by the internattona.liza-The 'ecretary resumed and concluded the l'eauing of the tion of the Elbe and othe.r rivers than they lost by that of the

article, as follows: Mqldau River. The Poles are inclined to grant the Allies POLES DENOUN CE TERMS OF TREAT"F--LlliDING MEN OF NEW STATE JOIN navigation. privilegeS On the Vistula River.

1 A PnoTEST AGAINST THE PEACE SETTLEMENT-" DIPLOMATs I.M- "• The Allies do not benefit therefore by the internationaliza-rosED UPoN "-THEY MAKE A BITTER ATTACK os THE UK.RAINIANs Uon of the Vistula This measure having no precedent in his-AND PROTE. T AGAINST PROVISIONS FOR JEWS. ' • • ' ,, . . . , tory, is of a nature to hm1t the sovereignty of the Polish State. Lead~g men of ~he ne'': Po~~h Ret;~ublic have united lD, an It is harmful to the development of Polish navigation and weak

open let!er to the allied ~ations, m W~lch ~ey ch~rge that the ens it economically with regard to Germany. Why? good fmfu an~ good Will of the alb~ diplo~ts h~v~ b~en " ' It was necessary to carry on a diplomatic campaign of nine tr~acher?usl~ tmpos~d p1;1on by .false mformahon origmat~ng mont11s' duration in order to obtain finally for the essentially wtth our wotst ene~les m draw~g up the terms of the Polish Polish (as affirmed by the Czechs themselves) population of ~ettlemeD;t. The ~st of complamts touches nearly all the Upper Silesia Spiz and Orawa the right of self-dete minaton ~eo:>"raphic and rae1al features of ~e Eastern ~ettlement. · It by means of plebiscite. And it has been impossible to :each the IS char!fed . that the Poles haye received less consideration than only solution which imposed itself in this case, and which was the Af~1can N~~o trib_es, while the authors m~ke a bitter a.~ack to unite those essentially Polish territories with Poland withon t~e1r Ukram.Ian .neigh?ors and protest agamst the proVISIOns Ol.lt any plebiscite. Why? relatmg to Jewtsh mhub1tants of the country.

" The text of the open letter is given, in part, below : " • The entire Polish Nation has shared during the whole dm·a

tion of t11e war the aspirations of the European and American democracies. Polish volunteers have fought in large numbers on the side of the Allies in France. They fought also, though anonymously, while no one knew they were Poles, in Uussia, in the Czecho-Slovak legions.

" ' The legions of Gen. Pilsudskl, who fought against Russian Czarism, the enemy of the Polish Nation as well as of any democracy, turned against Germany and Austria after_ the fall of the autocratic r~gime in Russia. Note their refusal to take the oath of loyalty to Besseler, the imprisonment of Gen. Pilsudski, the battle of Kaniow, Gen. Haller in Russia and France, the impri~Qnment of the former legionaires in Au~tria. It is not less essential to remind the world that Poland did not yield to G-erman pressure and that she steadfastly refused to form a national army unde.I;' the aegis and on the pay roll of the Germans. We did not create such an army solely because we did not want to fight against the Allies.

"'At the present hour, while the World 'Var is being liquidate<] and the Allies are proceeding to the delimitation of national frontiers, we resent all the more the wrongs that have been committed against us, as, on varieus occasions, the Polish Nation has been le swell treated than other allied nations.

SPECrFIC COMPLAINTS.

"'Contrary to the project which was unanimously accepted bY. the Cambon commission, composed of representatives of all the allied powers. the city and the illstlict of Danzig, indispen able to the development and to the expansion of Poland, have been taken away from her notwithstanding the city's historical and geographic attachment to the mother country. It is said that this has been done for fear to harm some two hundred and odd thousand Ge~·mans who, together with Poles, inhabit the territory of the newly formed Free State. At the same time a territory inhabitated by more than 3,000,000 Germans has been given to Bohemia. Why?

" ' The above-mentioned German territories, as well as Hungarian districts inhabited by Slovaks and Ruthenians, have been united with Bohemia without a plebiscit~. On the other hand, a plebiscite bas been decided upon in districts essentially and historically Polish, inhabited, though partially Germanized, by n genuinely Polish population. These are the districts of Clsztyn, Allenstein, and a part of the Kwidzyn-Marienveder district.

•• • More than that: Notwithstanding sanctions and decisions already made public, upon a si.mple demand of defeated Germany, the victorious Allies are organizing a plebiscite _in· Upper Silesia, the possession of which is a sine qua non condition of om· economic development-in that Upper Silesia of which the population, according to German statistic~, consists of 1,250,000

· Poles and only 650,000 Germans. "'The insurrection, that bloody protest of the people of

Upper Silesia against Prussian domination, though officially proved, has passed unnoticed. And yet negroes of the African colonies have at the same time been freed fr'?m the Prussian

ACCUSATIO:SS AGAINST UKRAINIANS.

" ' Pru sian atrocities have been the principal reasons which brought about American intervention in the World War. But it is worth while knowing that atrocities were committed in Galicia by the Ukrainians, a Bolshevist mob led by irresponsible provocators. These atrocities have been verified by an allied commission. They were by no means less cruel and even often surpassed in savagery the bestial acts committed by the Ger· mans.

"'And yet tho every same irresponsible Ukrainian provocators, calling themselves illegally representatives of the entire Ruthenian people of Galicia, have placed themselves under the protection of Governments which are allied with us-against us, against their own allies. (See order to Gen. Haller not to use Polish troops in Galicia.) The Entente took under its protection that very part of the Ruthenians in Galicia who called themselves Ukrainians, and who, before and during the war, were close partners of Austria and Prussia, those very people who succeeded in multiplying their criminal attempts, thanks to the help they received from Austria and Germany.

" 'At the same time the facts that Galician Poles form twofifths of the autochthonous population ; that the majority of the Ruthenia.ns desire to remain Polish; that the economic and intellectual development of Galicia is mainly the result of Polish efforts; that almost .the entire history of that country is one with that of Poland; that upon this territory Poland bas for centuries fought in defense of Europe against Mongol invasion, and does the same thing to-day defending Europe against Bolshevist invasion-an these facts- and truths have been ignored.

"'Even Germany and Austria did not dare openly to tear away eastern Galicia from Poland, but they did it under the form of a secret treaty. ·

"• Did the allied powers, when annulling the published paragrar-hs of the Brest-Litovsk treaty, nourish the project to approve in some way or another its secret clause, inflicting upon us, their allies, an injury which even our enemies, even the protectors of the Ukraine, Au tria, and Germany, did not dare do? TVhy? -

"'Polish public opinion rejects all provisional measures which would be taken in Galician affairs: Not we, but the Ukrainians, chose war as a means to settle om· differences. Not the Uluainians, but we, won· that war impo. ed upon us-a war which the Entente finally allowed us to carry on. It is impossible to annul the con. equences of these fact·.

DEXL!..L OF REPORTED POGROMS.

" ' Wilh regard to the " famous " pogroms we shall limit our arguments to exemplifying but two most salient facts.

" 'After the liberation of Vilna the German press became very noisy, spreadin~ rumors that on May 5 the Poles had organized a pogrom in Vilna, in which 2,000 Jews were murdered. Now, it has been •eri:fied (see New York Herald, Paris edition) by an American correspondent who happened to be in Vilna on that day that no pogroms happened in Vilna either on the above· mentioned date or at any time. " Investigating the story _of allE>ged pogroms," writes this correspondent, "I have a sured

1919. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE.

my elf, and urn in possession of proofs, that all news relating Mr. JONES of New Mexico. M:r. President, on a forme!' occn-. to the subject originated with the German wireless station in sion I expressed my views at some length upon thiS covenant Koenigsberg. A whole series of similar fictitious .stories has -of the league of nations, and I did not intend to consume any been forged." further time of the Senate in the discussi'on of that tery impor;

~· 'At the time of the " famous Lemberg pogrom," which the · tant document. I do so now, for a few minutes· only, solely .for. Je,...-s have represented before the public opinion Qf the whole the reason that it seems to me there is unnecessarily a difierence -world as a slaughter of innocent crowds (saying at the same of views here as to the fundamental principle which und~rlies time no word on the atrocious wholesale slaugnter of the Jews the construction of article 10. To my mind this article is one in the Ukraine), it has been verified that the Jews were armed of the most important in this coveruint. Its language is simple, and were shooting at the Polish troops. As ·a result of those it is short, and it seems to me there should be no radical difregrettable occurrences, which, by the way, have been conference as to just what it mearul. demned by all the P~lish authorities, there were 34 Jewish vic- But a few moments ago, when the Senator from Georgia tims, according to the official death ·regisfers of the Jews. [Mr. SMITH] was addressing the Senate, a· construction of' thi.s

"'The blood of thousands of Poles murdered by the Ukraini- . article was announced, which seems to have been concurred in ans in Galicia seems to have weighed very lightly in the scale by several other Senators, which to my mind is wholly inconOf the peace conference, constituted as a great court of justice. sistent and not in accot:dance with the fundamental rules of conBut the blood of 34 Jews in Lemberg has weighed so heavily struction which our legal writers have handed down to u ·with-on the other scale that, forgetting all the blood shed by the out any exception. . Christians, the peace conference went as far as to impose cer- I understand that this treaty is to be subjected to the same tain limitation upon the sovereignty of the Polish State, creat- legal rules of construction as any contract between individuals . . ing a commission of international control for the security of I know of no different rule which applies .to the construction of the Jews in Poland. Why? .a treaty which would not apply if the covenants of the .treaty

"'In the Alsace and Lorraine question it has beenagreed that were :m obligation as between individuals. . only those Germans who were bona fide residents before 1871 It was stated this morning that article ro is a joint and severU.l and their descendants will enjoy in that · coun.try full civic obligation, with emphasis upon the "several.~' It has been rights. All others will be bound to obtl:!-in French ·citizenship ,stated here to-da.y that under this article, if entered into by the in order to enjoy civic rights. No analogous restriction ·has been United States, the United States would be bound, alone, unaided made with regard to the Germans in Poland (upper Silesia, . by any other nation, to preserve the territorial integrity and· Poznania, and western Prussia). It is true that, with regard political independence -of every other member of this league. It to the Germans, it had been proposed to fix such a date, .has been iterated and reiterated upon this floor that under this namely, that of the establishment ~f the colonization commit- article, if entered into . by the United States, the United States tee ( 1886), but. at the yery last moment that date was changed obligates herself. independent of the obligations of other coun~ to 1908, which appears as a tacit approval of the result of Bis- .tries, to send her boys into other lands to do police duty, to marck's polieies of extermination toward a Province which re- preserve independently the territorial integrity of each one-· of cently was still ·under Prussian domination. And quite re- the other members of· the league. _ cently aU Jews, hundreds of thousands of Litwaks, total for- But, Mr. President, no Senator has presented any authority eigners to our country, included, benefited by measures taken for any such rule of construction. If we take this article · .10 in . the4' favor and gran;ting ~hem national minority rights in and examine its language and the circumstances in which we Poland. The ·Jews possess nQ such privileges either in England find it there should be no doubt from a legal standpoint as to the ' or iii America. What . are, thei·efore, the reasons a.I).d upon . construction which should be given to it:. what are based the demands thus formulated to octroi such The statement that this is a several contract, or a joint and rights to the Jews in Poland? Is it not evident that sueh means several contract, is one of the most important statements which of imposing ·a foreJ.gn tutelage upon a part of Polish citizens can be made in connection with this article. No authorities w~ result in agg~avating the Jewish question in Poland,- which . have been presented by any Senator who contends that this has has been sufficiently distorted by the reports of our enemies? any of the earmarks of a several obligation, but the statement Why? is made, and is repeatedly made, without a suggestion of any

'' 'rn ~11 the aforementioned ques~ions the diplomats of the of the well-known rules of construction to substantiate . the peace conference have refused to take into consideration, or statement. ha,·e listened with an apparent absent-mindedness, the informa- After listening to the Senator from Georgia [Mr. SMITH] a tion furnished to them by our delegates as well as by their own .while ago, I concluded to send to the library to get a couple of experts who had been intrusted with the respective investiga- well-recognized treatises upon the rules and construction of tions. Their propositions have been .rejected-all documents, .contracts. I am gratified to find that the impressions which I impartial as they were, considered useless-any time they spoke had in regard to the rules which should govern those construein our favor. This i.s what happened with the proposition con- tions are bo.rne out by these tWo authorities :which I ask,ed to cerning Danzig and West Prussia, which had been agreed upon have brought in to me. . .· unanimously by the Cambon <:ommission. The same thing hap- In the first place, · there is a presumption with reference to pened with the opinion rendered by the Noulens missmn with re- the question of whether the contract is joint or joint and sev-

' gard to Teschen, Silesia, and with that <>f Gen. Barthelemy, Col. eral or not. There is a presumption which obtains when you 1 Smith, and their fellow members with regard to eastern Galicia. take up a contract to analyze it, and that presumptton is that ·We have every Tight to believe that the same thing will happen wherever mo or more people .enter into an obligation the obli~ with all .reports of almost all mi.ssions which are being sent to gation is a joint oblig~tion and not a. joint and several obligaus in .such a large numbe1·, the members of which are representa- tion. I find that statement made in these two authorities in tives of a.ll allied countries, England and America included. almost the words I have given.

"'We express the conviction that the good faith and good will In Hammon on Contracts--of the allied diplomats have been treacherously imposed upon by Mr. SPENCER. Mr. President--

: false information originating with our worst enemies, the Ger- The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Does the Senator from New ( mans, wll.o conspired furiously . against us by means of their own Mexico yield to the Senator from :Missouri?

. agents as well as of Jewish, Ukrainian, Bolshevist agents, and . Mr. JONES of New Mexico. I gladly yield to the Senator. . ·others. Mr. Erzberger has publicly affirmed that Germany fears . Mr. SPENCER. Will the Senator be good enough to give me I nothing more than a great and powerful Poland. Anything that his opinion as to whether, if fou;r men were to sign a $10

1000

:"is prejudicial to us is a triumph for Germany and increases her note together, that obligation would be joint or joint and sev-rpower to be used in a world's war to come. eral? ·

" 'And thi.s is why, while expressing to the allied nations our Mr. JOJ\TES of New Mexico. I am very glad the Senator h-as :deepest and eternal gratitude for the help they gave us in re- made that illustration. If there is any one thing which is ; constructing the Polish State, w.e ·are botind to affirm in this established in the law of :c-ontracts, it is that where several ' solemn moment before the world and before history that as long people sign a note jointly it is a joint contract and not a joint as full justice is not granted to us, and as long as full amends and several one, unless there are words in the note which make are not done for our wrongs·, the basis of European peace will it several and not joint. · not be such as it should be-neither secm·e nor durable.' Mr. ROBINSON and 1\Ir. SPENCER addressed the Clmir.

"The statement is signed by the committee of national de- 'The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Does the Senator from New fense in Lvov; the Roman Catholic archbishop .of Lvov; the Mexico yield ; and if so. to whom? , Armenian Catholic archbishop of Lvov; the superintendent of · Mr. JONES <>f New Mexico. I will yield first to the Senator Protestant communities in Poland; the mayors of Warsaw • . :from Arkansas. . Posen, Lvov, and Cracow; the presidents of the principal uni- · Mr. ROBINSON. Or unless there is a provision in the stat-\ersities; and. editors of leading Polish paper~." ute which -operates to make 'Such a eon tract a joint and several

CONGRESS! ON AL R;ECORD-SE~ ~TE. N OVEl\lliER. 11'

con tract. .I know of one or more States where it is expressly ·pi·oyitlell by ' tatute that such a contract as is described by the Seuntor from Missouri shall constitute a joint and several cohtract. I agree with the Senator from New Mexico that in the ab euce of uch a provision in the law or such an undertaking

-- in the contract itself it ordinarily would be held to be a joint contract.

Mr. JONES of New Mexico. I am very glad to have heard the Senator from Arkansas make his statement, and I am glad to yield further to the Senator from Missouri.

Mr. SPENCER. Do I understand the Senator to state that if the four men signed the note together and if three of them· repudiated their ~ignah1res there would be no obligation upon the fourth one?

1\Ir. JONES of New Mexico. Of course if the other three did not sign it would be an obligation only of the one who signed.

Mr. SPENCER. In other words, the obligation is upon all of thein and upon each independently. Each man is bound by it ana. for the full amount whatever happens to the other three. Is not that true?

Mr. JONES of New Mexico . . I do not agree with the statement of the Senator from Missouri, but, to the contrary, the Senator must well remember that where a suit is brought upon a joint contract you must sue all or none, and that each one of tfiose who are bound has a right to object to any suit being brought unless the suit is brought against all. That is a

'"j)rinciple of procedure a s to which there is no controversy among the authorities. ·

1\Ir. SPENCER. Is not this the crux of the matter-that if four. men sign a note together for $10,000 -the four men are not liable for $2,500 apiece, but each one of them has an individual liability for the full amount, and while the contract is joint

·in one sense -it i.s also several in that each one of the signers is obliged for the ·entire amount? Is not that the Senator's view? ·

1\Ir. JONES of New Mexico. I think the Senator . has now · stated a very correct rule of contract construction.

Mr. SPENCER. Does not that make the contract both joint 'and joint rind several?

Mr. JO:NES of New Mexico. .It certainly does not, and if it does the Senator fails "to recognize th1\t there is a _difference between a joint contract and a joint and several contract.

Mr. LENROOT. Mr. President--:-Mr. JONES of New Mexico. I yield to the Senator from

Wisconsin. . - Mr. LENROOT. Applying the Senator's principle to article 10, if tl~e- political independence of one nation were threatened by ano.ther nation and they called upon all the . members of the league but all refused except the United _ States, would not the United States be bound to go to its aid alone?

1\Ir. JONES of New Mexico, I hope the Senator will ask me that question just a little later, because I do not want to over

. luok the very point he has made. I will try to inake a note of it myself, so I will not forget it.

Mr. REED. Mr. President--Mr. JONES of New Mexico. I yield to the Senator from

Missouri. ?IIi. REED. While the Senator is answ~ring that question in

due course I llope he will also answer this, because I ·would like to get his view. Suppose the United States and 31 other nations agreed to article 10. Suppose that arti~e is violated by one of the nations attacking ~he other. Is the United States justified in refusing to go to war if any one of the 30 other nations that signed declines to go to war? -

Mr. JONES of New 1\Iexico. ~ hope the Senator fr~m Missouri will wUhhold that question also until I shall have had an opportunity to establish the proposition which I started out to establish and the application of that doctrine under article 10. I shall be very glad to discuss it with the Senator a little later.

I find this statement made in the work to which I have referred, Hammon on Contracts:

An obligation performable by several promisors is presumed to be a joint promise as to them ; not joint and several.

I read further f1·om ti1e .same author, in another paragraph: An obligation . which i.s on its face payable or performable by several

promisors is presumptively a joint promise as to - the promisors, and not joint and several, and the presumption is strengthened where the ~romisors ba>c undertaken to accomplish together a single result.

In Leake on Contracts-, at page 307, I find this statement: If the writing purports sjmply . that the parties bind themselves or

covenant. without more. the obligation or covenant is joint only, an'i not several. ·

At another paragraph by the same author : · If the_ lan~age- of the contr;act. is ambiguous. so that it is doubtful

whPtht>r tht> parties ;nt"PnrlPil the covPnant to be join.t or several, or botb 3oint , and · SE>veral, the interE>sts -and relations of the parties may be referred to for t he purpose of determining the proper construction of the instrument.

Reading again from Hammon on Contr~ct.s , from .another paragraph, in section 382 : -

But the pro~ise is .Presru:iled to be joint where the consideration mons from the promisees Jointly, so that they have a joint legal interest in the contrad.

Now, Mr. President, let us look at article 10. Take it:< language. 'l'he m·ticle reads as follows:

The members of the league undertake--

And I desire to call attention to the word "undertake " because wherE> -the ~contract is in the -plural that has a - b;aring upon the construction which must be given to it.

Reading from article 10 further : -T.he members of . the leagUe urrdertak~ to re!)pect and preserv(' a s

agamst external aggression the l:Prritorial integrity and existing political independence -of •all members of the league.

Now, that ·is th~ language which we are to construe. It is an obligation · to be entered into by a number of nations. Undei· every authority of which I have any knowledge that is presumed to be a joint contract, and not a joint and several contract, aml that presumption obtains unless there be something in the entire contract to show absolutely ·a contrary intention of the parties. If the language is ambiguous, then we are justified in looking to the interests of the parties and the objects t o be accomplishE.'d by the obligation. ·

Mr. KNOX. Mr. President-- · Mr. JONES of New Mexico. If we do that, then I submit that ,

taking the league of nations from · beginning to end, ' it has ev-erywhere the earmarks of a joint obligation,· and not -a joint and several obligation. · ·

'l'he PRESIDENT pro tempore. Does the Senator from New Mexico yield to the Senator from Pennsylvania?

l\1r. JONES of New Mexico. I yield. 1\Ir. KNOX. Perhaps the Senator would like to have some

real authoritative information upon the subjeet he is discuss-ing? ·

l\1r. JONES -of New l\Iexico. I will be ~ery glad to receive any authoritative information.

1\Ir. KNOX. In the hearings before the Committee on Foreign Relations there were submitted the several drafts of the proposed league of nations, all of which had been submitted for comment to Messrs. Auchincloss and 1\Iiller, wh·o were ·the international a(lvisers of the President on this covenant: It was in one of its earlier stages of the formation of the covenant, but the principle was exactly the same. When the ques-tion whether or not n provision such· as article 10 was a joint or several obligation, 1\Iessrs. Auchincloss and Miller reported to the President as follows:

.No lengthy discussion of the _legal e.tl'e!!t o~ language of guaranty Will be attempted. The subject Is very ·highly technical. One of the most famous iiiustrations is the discussion and: doubt as to the guaranty of Luxemburg to the treaty of May 11, 1867. Perhaps every international lawyer would now agree that a guaranty several In form is more effectual than any other. . · -.- But aside from any questions of several, -joint, or collective guaranties and their proper language, the question of policy presented by this -article in its ·fit·st sentence is whether the United States should favor a guaranty of independence and integrity of every State by every other State. _ - .

Such an agreement would destroy the Monroe doctrine. . Under such an agreement Germany, as well as the United States and even despite the United States, would have been bound to support Venezuela against Great Britain in 1895. · Under such an agreement Great B'ritain, France, and Japan might be bound to intervene in Chile or in Peru according to their views of the Tacna-Arica dispute either in addition to inter-vention by the United States. - . · - · -

Indeed, any guaranty of independence and integrity -means :war by the guarantor if a breach of the Independence or integrity of the guaranteed State is attempted and persisted in.

What the United States has done, is doinl?, and will do for Europe is enough without making an unasked s Jt cnficE> of her interests and those of · Latin-Americl\ by giving up a policy which has prevented the countries south of the Rio Grande from being like Africa-pawns in the diplomacy of Europe. - ·

That each power .should covenant for itself to respect the integrity and . independence of every other pow.er in the league of nations and that .failure 'to , observe such a covenant should subject the covenantbreaking pow~·r ·tO' the sanctions of the league of nations is undoubted. - There could b~ no m·ore positive lan-guage ·as to the fact that

this is a several 'guaranty. -l\1r. JONES of New MeXico. The article just read by the

Senator from Pennsylvania is somewhat extended ana I do not claim thi.tt I am able to grasp the entire purport of it. - As I 1·ecall, the article which the Senator rea:d did not undertake to be a construction of this article of the covenant. It is a comment as to what should or· ought' to be done and as 'to~ how it ought to be <lone, : . -

I believe that there is one thought in article 10 which we might~ for interpr~tative purposes, designate as a several obligation, that part of Jt whicli relates to the word "respeet." That is -an obligation which_ can_ only, he -.performed by each nation f01~ itself; in ether words, the'_ United'States can not for "Great

·nriraiil · tesp~ct -the territorial integrity of any other .nation and -have that' the act of Great Britain. So as to the \vord -.. respect,.

1919. ·coNGRESSIONAL ·RECORD-SENATE. 8283 ·· as used in article 10, where it can only be performed by .each _ individual as nn individual, I quite agree that that becomes an

obllgatipn upon each individual nation and 'that it is _purely a several obligation. It is not joint and several. It is not joint. lt is several becuuse it can . possibly only be performed by each nation for itself. But when you come to the obligations, where all of the parties are QO!IDd to perform a single duty, a single thing to be accomplished, then I say, .under every rule of statutory construction ,...-hich can be produced, this is a joint contract and not a joint and several contract.

As I was proceeding to say, if there is any ambiguity abqut the language used, then, under the authority which I have read, we have a riglJt to look to the interests of the various parties, the objects sought to be obtained. If ·we do that, can there be any question ns to the intention of the parties who framed this instrument? You look to their interest. What is involved ln this ~business? It is to · preserve the peace of the world. It is to accomplish that, in· part; through the prevention of territorial aggression. Territorial aggression"· has been the moving cause of the vast majority of wars that have occurred in the past; and so the general purpose is to prevent war, to preserve the peace of the world, and to do that by preserving the territorial integrity of the members of the league. In that, I submit that one nation ha~ as great an intere~t as any other. There is no special advanhlge to either of these nations as an in<lividual nation. There i!' no reason why the United States should desire that Roumaniu should not begin a war of aggression against Serbia, or t11at Hungary should not begin a war of aggression against Roumania. than any other nation. The United States has no greate1· interest in that than other nations-certainly no greater than any of the nations who have assented thus far to this covenant. Therefore, by the presumption which we must indulge when we take up this covenant, and a presumption which is fortified by an examination of the document itself, in accordance with every rule of construction of which I have any information-certainly no rule bas been presented here to the contrary-! submit that it is time that we should cease making these statements, unless we are able to fortify them by some rule other than an ipse dixit pronounced in the Senate of the United States. ·

This treaty has been before the Senate now for four months. It has been discussed even longer than that. For two months it has been here, submitted under a report of the Committee on Foreign Relations; and even at this late day, when we are coming to vote upon a reservation to this identical article 10, wJth language as simple as it can be, there is this violent difference of opinion among able and experienced lawyers.

Another_ reason why this construction must be given to it is because of the remedy which is suggested. 'Vhen we come to a contract between several individuals, a joint contract, as lias alrE'.ady been stated in the collo_quy between the junior Senator from Missouri [Mr. SPENCER] and ·myself, you can not

,. sue one without suing all. That is one of the privileges which ea·ch party to a joint contract bas; and .whenever suit is brought upon a joint contract in a nisi prius court against less than the full number of the obligees, any one made a party to the suit, as every lawyer knows, has .· a right by a plea in abate1nent to have the suit dismissed unless the other obligees are brought

· r1'· into court. Mr. KING. Mr. President, would it interrupt tlie Senato1•

if I should ask him a question? Mr. JONES of ·New -Mexico. I shall be glad to yield to the

Senator. .. Mr. KING. Let me suggest a concrete case to the Senator

that will perhaps bring the _matter down to earth· and out of the realm of academic discussion.

Suppose that a controversy should arise betw·een Brazil _ai1d the -Argentine, or between Peru and Chile, and Brazil should inake an aggressive attack upon the Arge~tiQe, ltaving for its object first the subjugation of the armies qf the. Argentine, and perhaps taldng some territory;_ and suppose _tl1p,t the European

· powers, because of their poverty, or for other reasons, should declin~. notwithstanding some unanimous acti9ri by the. council, to aid in repelling the Brnzilian as~ault, saying that the United States ought to bear the burden alone, or, at any rate, should decline to do an-ything. ··Does the Senator think that the United States, waiving the question of our· duty under the Monroe doctrine, would owe no duty, no obligation to the Argentine to go to her . aid to repel the Brazilian attack? . If I niay be permitted one more concrete illustration so tl1at I may get the Senator's yiew, suppose that there was a wanton attack by one nation upon another, alid the council of the league got together and unanimously agreed . upon the . policy which ~:f:lQuld be pursued for the purpose of repelling this aggressive t;tssault, and thE'y recommend-ed to- the United States that our

duty was to furnish a certain number of troops and · a- certaiu. amount of money, but we or some other power that wanted to escape an unpleasant obligation or_ task or duty should induce Liberia or Hedjaz or Haiti to refuse absolutely to participate in the recommendations of the council. ·Does the Senator think that t11e United States could hide behind the refusal of one of those insignificant powers, or, indeed, a great power, and say,

· ·~This is an a_bsolutely jQint obligation, and · if any orte of the joint obligors refuses to do_ its duty '\\e will not do our duty"? Is that the position of the Senator? _ Mr. JONES .of New Mexico. I was just leading up· to a con- ·

. struction of the second sentence of article Hi, which I think will answer the Senator's inquiry and meet directly the point which he suggested in a hypothetical case.

.As I was proceeding to say,. where ·the obligation is between several individuals, the remedy in court is against 'all of the obligees, and anyone has a perfect right · to in,sist that the suit shall not proceed until all the parties are brought into court.

. In international affairs, of course, there can be no court pro

. ceeding. There is no h·ibunal to enforce internatiomil obligations. Therefore, arti_cle 10 seeks to meet the situation and, to my mind, meets it very clearly and very effectively and in the only reasonable way in which it could be met.

The second sentence of article 10 says : In case of any such aggression, or in case of any threat or danger of

such aggres:;ion, the council shall advise upon the means by which this obligation shall be fulfilled.

Mr. President, that second sentence performs two purposes. The first purpose is to clarify, if need be, tbe meaning of the first sentence. That sentence makes it plain that the' obligation of the first sentence is joint.- If it is not a joint obligation, why provide t11at in case there is an infringement of the obligation the council shall meet and advise upon a plan to enforce it? . If the obligation is individual, .why not . have left it to the indfvidual nation to perform it in the way that each· might choose for itself? But it did not do a. It provided that in-. the case of any such aggression, or threat of such aggression, the council should meet apd advise upon a plan whereby . this 9bligation· shall be perfm·mecl. What can that mean ·other than tliat' it is a recognized joint obligation · to be enforced in a joint way?_· And, inasmuch as there is no other ·means to enfor_ce an · obligation between nations, certainly the means provided by themselves in their covenant for its enforcement is necessarily exclusive.

lllr. President, the suggestion has been made by the Senator from Utah· [Mr. Kma]_, and I believe the _ same thought was embodied in the inquiry of the senior Senator from Missouri [Mr. REED], as to what would occur if 'one · of these nations represented on the council shou'ld fail to c·arry out its ·part of the obligation. · · · ·

l\fr. Presirlent, that is an interesting proposition. · It is a thing which will likely occur. I believe that it is one of the infirmities of this league of nations that in _so _many in~tances there must be unanimity of conclusion and decision, but I am sa.tisfied also that except for this unanimity of dedsion the nations would not enter into the· c~venant, and it ~s . qu_ite likely that some nation may refuse to . agree to a plan whereby the provisions of this 'article may be enforced. If a nation should

· refuse to agree to a 're~sonable plan~ that is simply one of th-e infirmities of this C9Y.enant, in my judgment. · But what this covenant does mean, and the obligation under it, in my judgment, is that whenever ' there is any threat of external aggression against any member of the . league the United States, together with , t¥,e other _members of t~e council, will get together and will _undertake to agree upon _a reasonable plan whicl_l shall meet the approval of every member of that council. _.

That is the obligation here. There is no obligation, in my judgment, that if the other -memberS". of · the council should decline to prevent a war of aggression upon a1;1other nation, the · United States solely and alone must assume the responsibility of preserving the territorial integrity' of that nation. There is no such obligation here, but there is -an obligation for ~11 the members of the. council to get together a:od agree upon some plan . which shall be reasonable, and if .a]ly one nation sho-pld fail to agl;'ee to u reason~ble plan, then that nation, in my judgment, would be violating its obligation under this covenant. If the other nations · proceeded, then they would do it outside this covenant of the league; they would ·do it _for the sake of the peace of the world. We have no right, however, to presume that any nation which becomes a member of this council will fail to agree and co·me to a, concluSion upon some reasonable .plan for enforcirig 'the _obligation ·under this article.

Mr. REED: Mr. President, if the Senator will pardon me there-

CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE-. N OYE~IBER 11 '

Til PRESIDENT pro· tempore. Does the Senator from New tions m-e acting in ·good faith, that thej." will do this thing, Mexico ·Yield to· the Senator from Missouri'? · · and if they do· not it is- simply one o.f the infirmities of" thiS.

1\Ir. JONES of New Mexico. I run glad to yield. cov~nant. We have· got to. presume that they will act in · good Mr: REED. l simply want to be sure that · I understand the faith, that they wiU agree upon a -plan.

Senator i that is all. If I understand him, he hokls this to be Then the Senator asks whether th~· otfier members would be a joint obfigation, and therefore that it is the duty of every reUeved if tlle- plan -is n(}t carrioo out by all the nations who· are' nation signing . the treaty to do its part to carry out the treaty; obligated under this coveimnt,-after. the:j>lan is devised. I Su.bthat that implies that some concert of artion or plan will be mit, Mr. President, that that becomes u question of good faith worked out ; and that that plan being worked out for the enfor the consideration o-f the re~pective nations at the time, ;t:orcement of the terms of the treaty, if any one nation refuses because the obligors -~der this_ article are to act jointly and to comply with that plan and do its part the- other nations are not severafly in enforcing the obligations. I do not see bow any thereby released from taking any action, in which event ne otber interpretation <;an be put upcn it. There is no machinery thinks they probably, outside of their obligations, might take provided in this enttr.e covenant except that provided in the some actiori. second sentence of this article,- and when th.at machinery is set

Am I correct in that? I do not want to be · captious about it. in motion, if any one· nation wants to stop the machinery if it I just want to understand the Senator. wants to insist upon something else, .then nothing has' been

Mr. JONES of New Mexico. My thought does not extend as agreed upon which can be carried out or is being carried out. fa!' as I understood the Senator's proposition to go. The Sena- Mr. REED. Then that gets it to. the point, if the Senator will tor assumed a case where the council does agree upon a plan pardon me, that refusal by any one. nation to do its part under and where. after tt is agreed upon, the nation declines to go the covenant to prot~ct the frontiers of another nation from asahead in pursliance of it. To my mind, Mr. President. that is sault releases every other~ nation. That is the Senator's view? an unthinkable case. It is unthinkable beeause· this council of Mr. JOJ\TES of New Mexico. Mr. President, it releases them the league of nations is not an outside entity, looking over the from the ohligation under- this article, in my judgment. -world with a spirit of domination. The members of thi~ council Mr. REED. That is what I '-muted to get· the Senator-'s· are the representatives of the specified nations. and whenever a view on, ' member of the counci1 agrees to any plan it is in itself an agree- Ur. JONES of New Mexico. And I say that is one of the inment of the nation which he represents. 1 can conceive of no fil'mities of thi controversy when it come to the u e of force. reason to presume that the representative of the United States I do not see JrJ.ow any other construction can lJe given to it. on this council would ever agree to any plan to enforce the ohli- Mr. McelnffiER. MI·. President-- -gatio.n of the Unlted States under article 10. unless he knew The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Does the Senator front -New that it met with the approval of the United States. Mexico yield to the Senator from North Dakota?

Mr. REED. Mr. President-- 1\lr. JONES of New Mexico. I yield to · the Senator from The PRESIDENT pro tempore. . Does the Senator from North Dakota.

New Mexica further yield to the Senator from Missouri? Mr.· McCUl\IJ?ER. I agree entirely with the Serut.tor in his Mr. JONES of New Mexico. I do. 1 statement that this is a. joint obligation. It is not a joint and: Mr. REED. I do not want to interrupt the Senator, but he several obligation.· It is understood that every one of the llll

is undertaking to answer my questi~n, and is doing it very tions who are parties to the compact· will join in the action · courteo-usly and obligingly, of course. He is discussing a. de- to defend every other country from a war intended to deprive tail in my tatement which I am perfectly willing to wah·e. that country of its independence Ol' its territory. But is it not I simply want to get at the Senator's view in regard to this. true that the result might necessarily be a several action and

Suppose that a nation invades the tenitory _of another- na- not simply a joint action? · . tion, co..ntrary to. the provisions of the treaty. There is then. · Let me illustrate it. Suppose, for Instance, that Germany of _course, the Senator will agree, an obligation of some kind: should make war upon France for the p1irpose of recovering the jomt or several,_ or both joint and several., resting upon the Provinces of Alsace and Lorraine. We will suppose that Haiti, various nations to protect the country that bas been invaded who is a party to this league, is engaged in one of her annual against the invasion. Now, the Senator holds that is a joint or semiannual revolutions, and Haiti says she can take no part obligation. Suppose the invasion takes place, Does the Sen- in a war to proteet France against Germany. The obligation atQr hold that the refusal of any one of the nations wl1o have though a joint obligation, has not been discharged, and tbe other: signed the league compact to do its part in defending the nations, like Great Britain and the United States, notwithstandcountry_ that bas been invaded releases all the other obligors? ing 1t was a joint ob-ligation, the spirit and purpose an-d agree-

Mr. JONES of New Mexico. After t):le plan has been agreed ment being to protect France and e-very other country would upon? .. unite theil1' forces in good faith to protect France; i~ which

Mr. REED. Either after or before. I will let the Senator• some of the- other nations refnse to assist them. So the effect state that in the alternative. Let him state it as he win; I of it might necessarily be several, even though there ·can be no just want to get the Senator's view; I do not care to argue it. question but that the obligation itself is simply a joint obliga·-

Mr. JONES of New ~Mexico. I am quite than.h."ful to the tion. · · · Senator for making the inquiry and calling my attimtion to Mr. JONES of New Mexico. 1\Ir. President, I am sure there

· the point which is disturbing him, because I believe, from the is no divergence of thought between the Senator from North . remarks which the Senator from Missouri has previ(}usly Dakota and myself as to this proposition. What I particutarty , made in some speeches, that. he is disturbed about the mean- had in mind, in making the statements that l have made, was ing of article 10. At any ra.te, I feel that he should have some this, that before Haiti, in the illustration which the Senator

: feeling of interest in the matter, because I think his interpre- gives, would have any burden imposed upon her, she must ac: tation is so clearly wrong. cept the burden, or, in other words, indorse the plan. If Haiti

But,. answering the questwn of the Senator, he is assuming~ were in revolution, it is not reason!lble at all to suppo e that the . first, a case where the members of the council do not agree council would impese- any duty upon Haiti at that time whicb . upon any plan. In that case it must be evident that som-e · she could not readily perform. Secondly, Haiti would' not be · one of the members of the council is not acting in good faith. bound by the plan until after Haiti bad accepted it. · It must be e,,.ident that some one of the members of the I want to make this statement in this connection. I have council must be seeking to avoid its responsibility under this no information;. in ·the course of the dealings of nations slnee covenant. We all know that in dealings between natio-ns history dawned, where any nation agreed to perform a specific nothing can be accomplished except by, -unanimous consent. act and did not do it, if it had the power to do it. Good faith as Whene.ver anything is to be done by a concert of action as. between nations, according t-o-my information, has been one of between nations it is always a..ccamplisbed by tbe ambassadors the most sacred things known to contractual relations tn the of the respective governments getting together and nnani- history of the world. We must presume, when Haiti says she monsly agreeing. u · is the only way. Unless they do agree will make some contribution to the joint undertaking, that she then there i · no action .. and so, when: they come to consider will carry it out. If~ of course, there is a:ny reason why it shoutd this question of devising a. plan to recommend to their· re- ' not be done, why. she ean not do it, is there any reason why the spective Governments under artiele 10, of course, they can eouncil should not meet again and relieve Haiti of this resp.on- · decline to agree upon a plan, but the obligation of the resp-ec-- . sibility? tive Governments i.s- that . they will agree upon a plan if the Mr.-President, I shall not pursue that line of discussion fnr:fa.et exists whicb would call for action. That, in m:y- judg- ther ~but I thought it was important to say something upDn that ment, .is the obligation unde-r article 10. The o.nly remedy snbjeet at this time, ancl if it is po~ ible- that there can. he a clear provided in the covenant fo-r the enforcement of article 10 understanding upon it, I think thn t it sboutd b.e arrived at. My is Just that-that they will meet together and agree upon a attention was fil'st called to th'-' imt1ortnnee of tTle ubject by the plan. Throughout the covenant it is presumed that these na- Senator from Massaehus tts [~lr. LonGE] in a , peech which he

... ~.,

1919. CONGR.ESSIONA·L RECORD-SENATE.

delivered before the Republican con-vention in his State recently. · I have here the interpretation wbieb he gave -to article 10, from which I read. He said:

The next is article 10, the famous article which provlde.s for a guaranty against external aggression of the territorial Integrity and political independence of all the members of the league. It is an individual guaranty. It requires no action on the part of the league to operate. We to-day are guaranteeing Panama for obvious reasons. If ther(' were 10 other countries guaranteeing Panama, joined with us, and Panama called upon us for the fulfillment of the guaranty, we are bound, no matter whether she calls on the other indorsers or not.

It seems to me that this question is a fundamental one, and there ought not to be any difference of opinion about it, and if I am wrong about it I should like to have some one suggest a line of reasoning which will show it. The authorities which you find everywhere are undisputed, under every rule of statutory construction which I have been able to find, and, if I am able to interpret them, classify this as a joint obligation, and not a joint and several or a several obligation. '

Mr. President, the reservation which is proposed here by the Committee on Foreign Relations, in my judgment, absolves the United States from :l)JY obligation under article 10. That rese~·vation reads: ·.

The United States assumes no obligation to preserve the territorial integrity or political independence of any other country • • • unless in any particular case the Congress • • • shall by act or joint resolution so provide.

I can not see that any other interpretation can be given to t.bat reservation except that it denies any obligation on the part of the United States, and that if ever the United States participates in any degree in the preservation of the territorial integrity of another nation, it will enter upon that task without any obligation whatsoever. It will leave the United States just where the United States is to-day, without any obligation;

Of course, Congress, in the fullness of time, may discover that some nation is being imposed on, t11at there is territorial aggression, a war for conquest, and Congress may come to the assistance of some nation and prevent such aggression. But if it ever should in the future, in my judgment it would be without any obligation ~o to do, under this reservation to article ·10.

Mr. President, it seems to me that we ought to be willing to do something to bring to a consummation the purpose which · this country bas had in mind in this war. On yesterday the Senator from Nebraska [Mr. HITCHCOCK] referred to the obligations under w;b.icb we have placed ourselves with respect to some of these new-formed nations. I agree with him as to that. But I contend that there is another obligation which we will be violating if we emasculate article 10. We went into this war to preserve modern civilization, democratic civilization. It was that for whieb we fought in this war. If we abandon the obligation under article 10, what right have we to say that we have performed the obligation which we made to the civilized · world to preserve civilization? Will we be performing our share? Can civilization be preserved unless you stop external aggression and wars of conquest?

Ever since history bas recorded the events of time, we find that aggression. the idea of conquest, has ruled nations and produced substantially all the wars which the world bas ever suffered. Can that be stopped without the United States joins in aiding and assisting the other nations to perform that tremendous service to civilization?

Moreover, Mr. President, we know to-day that this covenant has been ratified by the other great signatory powers to it. We know that it is going into existence, and I want to ask the American people if they are willing that the United States shall shirk its duty? Shall we at this time be deserters? Shall we say to our all1es, "A part of the war -is won"? To my mind the greater part is to come--the preservation of the peace of the world. Shall we say to them, in this hour of stress, that we are going to desert them and let them perform the very function for which the United States entered the war?

I am not willing, Mr. President, to take that position. I do not want the United States to become involved in any foreign wars unless it it necessary to preserve the peace of the world; but the time has passed when we can rely upon other nations to perform that vast service for us.

I do not want it said to the people of this country, who have contt·ibuted to the prosecution of this war, that the result of the war has not been accomplished; that the United States declines to further prosecute the war. This war must go on to its consummation. It is not only technically still in existence, but the war is still on until something is done to preserve the peace of the world.

I do not want to say to the people who .have made sacrifices in this country, either thrQugh toil, through personal sacrifices, or through the loss of loved ones, that those sacrifices have been in vain.

· · It is true, in my judgment, that article 10 will not be brought -into -effect or become ·effective except in most · extreme ··cases. I believe that the provisions of the covenant for arbitratiQn, for conciliation and investigation, are so potent or will he so potent that the obligation under article 10 will not become necessary, but that with article 10 in the background ·to let those nations of the world which want to enter upon conquest or to enter upon external aggression understand that the great nations of the earth are ready to enforce the provisions of article 10, they will then arbitrate and will come to some understanding, and it will be unnecessary to apply the provisions of that article. Bllt we want it there. We want to say to the world that this thing called war for conquest shall end. For the United States to withhold her voice while other nations are saying that to the rest of mankind, in my judgment, is mis· representing the people of the United States. I do not believe the people want it done. It is a cowardly act, which no American citizen should tolerate. I am sure that the people of the United States want this country to bear its share of the burdens of world peace, of the preservation of peace, and the civilization of the world. . . .

Do you want to shirk this duty? You Senators who have talked here n·om week to week about Americanism, about beiilg American, I ask you · if that is the spirit of America, if lt is the spirit of America that America shall hold out to the world every inducement and every proffer of assistance which is necessary to the preservation of the peace . of the world, and then take this action? War is so horrible that we want it stopped, and ev~rybody who made any sfl.crifices in the war wants it stopped. ·

Again, you talk about the reduction of armament anu of expenses being reduced in the building and operating of a navy. Is there a Senator here who does not feel that unless some plan is adopted for the preservation of the peace of the world witliout force there will be no reduction of armament and there will be no reduction of the size of the Navy? Do you want to keep up that old system wbieb, to my mind, bas disgraced the civilization of the past-let him who can get what be can a.nd bold it? Do you want that to obtain? If yon do not, give real strength and power to this covenant.

To my mind, you are saying to the people of the United States that during the ensuing years we are going to tax you to maintain a Navy, we are going to train aU of your boys so that they can be conscripted in the defense of this country and as the sole power to defend the country and carry on its wars against the rest of the world.

Have you any doubt that if you destroy the efficacy of this covenant that the old order of things will obtain, that it will be contirlued? Do you want to see that? Do you want to say to the people of this country that the United . States Senate is un· able to propose any plan for the preservation of the peace of. .the world? Do you want to say to them that the United States Senate is unable to prepare a plan which shall make this thing called war, and which is so abhorrent to all of us, a thing of the past? .

I appeal to you, Senators, because I know you have the majority. I appeal to you not to emasculate this covenant. I am sure I am just as good an American as any one of you. If there is any other kind of blood flowing in my· veins I do not know it. But do not talk Americanism to us and in the next breath do a thing which I am satisfied will, if not for the present, at least in the future be repudiated by the American people.

Mr. BR~EGEE. Mr. President, a few days . ago the Senator from Nebraska [Mr. HrrcBcocn::], leader of the minority, in advocating the treaty took occasion to denounce the Senate for its undue delay, stating that the treaty bad been pending in the Senate for some four months; that everybody bad made up his mind about how he wanted to vote on every question; that all the matters contained in the reservations bad been debated in the general debate, which is pretty nearly true, ·and be denounced the opponents of the treaty for presuming to talk. We on this side have done very little talking since that time, most of the time being consumed by the proponents of the treaty. But at that psy~bological moment up rose the Senator from New Mexico [Mr. FALL] and offered to the Senator from Nebraska a unanimous-consent agreement proposinK that the Senate should vote on the treaty and all amendments and reNervations and the resolution of ratification and take final action on or before the 12th day of November, which would be to-morrow; whereupon the Senator from Nebraska promptly objected. If he had consented we would have had this whole thing out of the way to-morrow. .

Shortly after that the uistinguished ·Senator from Arkansas [.Mr. RoBINSON] rose in his place and with majestic air and quivering voice and forefinger, denounced this side _for occupy-

8286 CONGRESS! ON AL RECORD-SEN ATE. N OVEl\fBER 11

in~ so much time upon matters that .bad been duly and lengthily signed a joint promls ry note for 100,000, each of w might, con 'dered, and the yery llext morning he was promptly ,on his under the common-law rule, insist when nit was brought feet with :a stack of mnnnscr.ipt tlmt thick (indicating], and that all of us should be sued; but as soon as the judgment was proceeded to occupy the time of the Senate aU th~ morning, I'endered the execution could i u .against those opulent genan l then induced two -of his colleagues to consume whn.t was tlemen who ha'le the money, and they could not escape paying left of the time, not for publication, bnt ns a guaranty of good the entire sum becn.nse som of tl1c rest of us were bankrupt :f.."lith and :sincerity. or refused to pay.

Mr; President, I ne\"er want to do nnythi.ng nastily in the Sen- ''Vhy ha'le we had an hom· and a half taken up with that ate of the United -States, but [ ha'le .always agreed with those sort of argument? Is anybody cleeei'led by it? The whole Senc·1..tors Who are demanding haste nnd :that action be e.x- argument was based upon the rule that applies to the remedy pedited. I am ready to vote ut :any time anu, so far ns I am and not to the opligation, for, says the same author from whom concerned, to give unanimous <Consent to vote on any or a.ll the . tbe distinguished Senator quoted, Leake on Contracts: re~erva.tions -Ulld {In tbe resolUtion -uf ratification at 'any elate Each joint contrn.ctor beComes ultimately liable to the crc(litor for anyone will name. But the minut:e It date is proposed we .do the whole, and not only forms proportionate part, though the contract not get an agreement. be jomt. ·

I am g.etting a little weary of having the Committee on 1i1or- Why, lUr. President, without characterizing the argument of eign Relations and the Senators who think these reservations one of my brethren, a distinguished lawyer., as absurd, I ventur ought to be ·added to the treaty denonneetl for holding it up anu to say that he formed the habit which he Indulged to-day when filibustering When those who are '[ldvocating it are consuming be was arguing cases before a justice of the ,peace in some renine-tenths of the time. Article iO has been debated for weeks mote district of New Mexico. [Laughter.] I am sure he ne'l~r and weeks here, and I do not think there is any occasion for presented it to the Supreme Court. I say that in all kindness,

• any further debate on it. l.am a member of the conutlittee that because I know the Senator to be a strong and analytical l'eported fthe reservation G,Je-r'ta.intng to' it. l: do not believe I lawyer. h-ave spoken 5 minutes {}ll it, 'aDd 1 do not ln.tend to speak 30 The character of argument made, however, furnishe a Yery seconds more. I hope we can ~ote t>n it. good and solemn lesson. It is that the proponents of this tren.tr

Mr. President. 1 .suggest· the. absence of -a .quOl'illll.. propose to justif-y it by any kind .of-now, I must be parliamen-·The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The 'Secl"'etary will ciUl the tars, and I find lt difficult to select.u word which will clJ..•tracterize

roll. tbl-s eonduct and remain entirely within parl.irunentnry rilles-The 'Secretary call~d the roll, .and the following Senators an- by .:my kind of n.rgument, by uny kind of a twisting and dis-

swered to their names: torting of w-ords from tbeir Teal meaning, by giving unnatural :Ball Rale :Mc'Kell:ar :Sheppard construction • Here, again, we -are fUrnished with . nnot:h r Brnnd~.gee Ha.Tding McLeB.ll SJmmons . illustmtion of the fact that every time these gentlemen present ·calder Harris :McNary 'Smith, 'Ga.. a .question relating to the league of nations in which power and ~~1ierlain ~~~n ~~s ~~: s.dc. fol'~ nre necessary to give strength to their argument, they fintl Colt Hitchcock els:on ~oot that the league of nations is omnipotent in its power nnd n.n Culberson Johnson, ealif. New s~:ncer -embracing in the sweep of its mighty arms, but the moment Cmnmins J.ohnso~ ... S. Dak. ~~ ~i~and they begin to discuss tbe responsibility ot the American ation 'Curtis J'ones,.N. Mex. the.,. proclnim the doctrine that uftel• all :nobody is bound to dll Dial Jone, Wash. Nugent Swanson .., Dillingha:m Kell~gg Overma.n lfllomas anything nnless he ants to do it anyway, "hicll reduces this Jg~~s It:~~~k ~:;: ~=~ :coverumt to this sort of bsurd 'Situation, that the mriou Fall Keyes Penro e Underwood naLions get together and agree thnt in certain contingene. Fletcher Klng Phelan Wadsworth -each one of them will do the -pn.rtirolar hing that 1t wunt to ~~!f~~buysen ~~ ~r~ ;~~~ :~~t do and that it would do if there were not any league of nntlo Gay La Follette P.omerene Warren ftt :alL I will defy any man who has listened t.o these delmt Gerry Lf..nruot ~:!'tren ;fi~~~s to say candidly 'S.nd honesU that that has not been the e1Iect 8~~~na ~&:mbcr Robinson Wolcott nnd the intendment arul the eour.se -of n.rgument.

When :It is nsserted by one of us that the United States by Ir. REED. I desire to announce n¢n that the Senator from entering this covenant m :9 be bound by the 6 \"ote of Great

Tennes ee [Mr. SHI:Eu>s~ is confined to bis .roC)m by illness. I Britn.in to n matter in which it ,does not wnnt to be bound w usk that this annooncement may :stand .for the day. !ll'e told that the 6 wtes <>f Great RritD.in count for nC)thlng;

·The PRESIDENT pro tempor~. Etgbt:S"-four Senators bftye , th-at we !Can DillY be bound when we onrsel'les consent; but at nnswered to the r<>ll :eall Then lS a quorum present. the &'IDle time we are told that tlmse 6 votes cast in the .as-

J\.lr. REED. ~r. Pres~~en't, [ . ,hs:'\"e heard some new law this sembly can elect the members of the council; thnt the council tl.fternoon. ~t a.s tha.t if 1.0 men sign 11 mntrs:ct . and l of 'and n.ssembiy tog-ethel' ronstitute the government of the world; them refuses to comply With the contract the other 9 1l1"e ' and that Within the purview of their vast jurisdiction they h<>ld thereby released. If tllat were the case, nebody in the world control ,of e\'el'y internationn! dispute :and embrace within th :wonld ,ever accept ,a CC)nttact With tw<> signatures to it, because sweep-to use the language I employed before-of their arms ·either of the signatories could m-ra.nge .easily to be .relieved by .all nations kindreds ~ tongu , and evel'Y people nnd every haT'ing the <Othet' individua.i r~ndkl!te the contract. Yet we clime. Yo~ can not ha,e both of thns nr::ruments. You either

'·have listened !o ·9: painful ·~~~.argument ~is afternoon with hnve a thing of .}>ower or y-ou llase u n thing of shreds and a ;pretended tCttation <>f antho-r1ty to sustam that remarkable :patche ." You either imYe nn instrnm~tality whicb will work, document. ·:.llld work: with mighty strength, or you ha-ve a fraud put upon

The truth .is ±bat .a. joint obligation binds every memb.er to the w.orld, .n.nd a .partial .or:rr:mization created to accomplish th fulfillment lOf !the entir· Obiiga:tion, and :the default nf any nothing. I will make this statement that I ought to ~ake in

. one of the signers neither releases him oor the others, but this connection, that if you we.re setting up a tribun to ~x

. an are -alike ,bound. It is true ·tbB.t if a uumber 'Of individuals ercis ~~:mly a moral influtm.ce, U might have some moral in

. sign a contract to ttl.o n. partieulax thing :and the beneficiary 1lnence; but ~'Uch, ,sir, is not the 'Chal'acter of this organizPtion. :of that tCOntraet 'lOluntarily releases one of them from his Mr. President, the are but preliminn.ry words to the ubject . ron tract, that may relieve the ·uthers; ~a if he btings suit, I want to discuss. Anoili r .doctrin~, new, startling, revoln-.and does not join -all .of the joint ·oblig-ors. Ulere .are if:Wo rules tioilary, has been n.nnouneed upon the floor .of tlle Senate, .unll which then ·obtain, diffe:I'ing .neeording to jurlsdletions. One lest that same doctrine shonld b appli 1 and the United ta

, is that if he proceeds ~nlY :ngainst pal't, he bas re1eased a :part, hereafter ior all time be bOlmcl by it, I hasten to 1ile my dis~md thereby has voluntarilY released -all. The ·Other rule, how- claimer. The new doctrinn js if some individunl <Offi. r of th ever, is that the remedy of those who nre sued is to .require Governm~nt makes a tatem nt that that binds the American the impleading of the :Otll&' <Ob.1igor with them as defendants. people unless the American people instantly 1·epndiate it; that it :Mr. President, those two il'ules nre merely made for the pro· binds the Sena.t un.Ies. th erutte slmll .instantly l'epudin.te it; tection of the IObllg(}rs, :so that they may have in .a court of tha.t if th~ President, the mnn h::tppening to be President, not ns law a ,ju<t,.oment ,rerrdered :ng::U:nst all .a:t the sru:ne time; but if an .official ~ct, bnt in the pursuit of his own ideas outside of his the judgment ts r ndered !lgitlnst .all, it t::an be :enforeed ;against gtlicial duties nnd outside o'f IDlY uthority rested in him by ~e. and that~ man then 'bas the :right to go into other -courts ;the onstitntion, imply exercising bls right ru; u citizen to and require ·contributioo, if, be can ~et it. speak, expresses an opinion, thnt opinion hinds not only the Con·

What has all this to do with onr obligation under 11rtid.e .10'? ;gress of the United States but the l)eople of the United States, u wlult acour:t · cnn w.e ibiin.g 't'}Ul' .suiU And 1f we were to uo matter what the IOPininn may ibe; but that is especl.nlly true

1:bring our s1Ilt in -a oonrt, wbal kind of n judgment -wonld be unless we all rise a1: on.c:e :und ;pl'otest. In other words. the .doc.· rendered? The troth is that if eTery man in this Senate trine of estoppel by silence is set up against :). people :and

1919. CO-NGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 8287 again t a Governm~nt. Well, if .we m-e- u:ppealing to principles of raw, let me call attention to- the fact that there can be no estoppel against the Government o-f the United States nor against any so-rereign government ; but I do not care to indulge in any such silly distinction or to apply a mere legaL argument, a mere· legal ruie that applies between individuals. •

More than that,. the doctrine is asserted that if Elihu Ro~ whom 1 respect as a man, utters a declarati.on to· a newspaper re~rte1· in New: York City · expressing his. opinion that the United States ought to guard the frontiers of Poland foi"" ~ n xt five years~ that creates a moral obligation upon the people of the United States to send their boys ouer th€re to die. It is the first time that I ever knew that the utterances of Elihu Root, or any other man. great or small, constituted a moral obligation on the part of the people of the United· States; and yet four times in his speech on yesterday-! believe it <vas four timesthe- Senato1· from Nebraska [1\lr. HITCHCOCK] declared that Elihu Root had created such a moral obligation. Senator Root is a great lawyer. a private citizen, and a man for whom I have· respect. but I decline to allow his utterances to become· binding as a moraJ obligation on anybody but himself:

Right here I think we ruight as well get back to· the fact that this is not a Government by Congress; it is not a Government by the Supreme Court; it is not a Government by the President; it is a Government of the people of the United' States, made and established by. tbem and speaking through certain authorized a~ents, the scope of· whose authority is laid down in a Constitution that no man can change. although it may be disregarded and violated b.y men. It can be changed only by the people of - the United States. The only way the Presiuent can bind the people of the United States is. when he acts within the purview of his authority and exercises the powers that have been con titutionally imposed upon him. He ba no more power or rlght by his individual statement to bind the people of the United States than has any othe1· man in this country.

I say that with the utmost respect for the present incumbent of the offiee of President. I would say it. sir" if his great predece sor in office, Hon. ·william H._ Taft. were still President of the United States. I say that the syndicated articles which Mr. Taft is now puttinG forth to the people of the United States and the world, at so much per line, just a~ much bind the people of the United States as would similar articles if written by the President of the United States.

Where would this doctrine leave ~ • that the President by his word of mouth~ not in carrying out the power imposed upon him by the Constitution, but in ca~;rying out llis own id€as, could l>ind our people? In a moment's time he could involve us in every conceivable obligation by a speech made anywhere in tha United States. whether in Boston, l\1ass .• or Pueblo, Colo. He could involve the United States in obligations from which we migbt never escape. That is a pow-er. sir, that was not claimed by any despot of ancient times, that fiis· ruere speech bound the people. Even those .despots iu the days of Draco. wrote their decrees in the· forms of law and ~sted them up for the people to .... ead, sometimes so high they could not see them, it is aid, but still they went through the form of posting them. up. What new and un-Ame-rican doctrine is this, that an individual sitting in the city of New York can declare that we ougbt to proteet Poland .for five ~ars and that thereupon it beeomes the duty of the Conoaress of the United States to- con .... script boys who live 3.000 miles from New York. put them into. uniform, and send them across th€ ocean to die in the battles of other peoples? If our Congress bas that power in a cleareut case~ I do not know it. We do have power to protect thepeople of the United States, and this Government has the po er to call for every man and every woman and every child to protect its. people-; but I question, sir-~ whether we have the constitutional right in a clear-cut case to call out a single trooper,. to con cript a single ma~ to- fight the battles. of other nations in whose quarrels we have no concern.

1\lr. President, we have got so used tg, talking stuff here! will use that common expression .. stuff "-that it is time to call a halt. I have heard this talk abeut what the United States entered the war for, an~ according to the ~e-w-spun theory .. 1t appears that we entered the war fo1· eve1-ything the partieu1a.I' individual who happens to be spealting imagined we entered it for; but the people of the United States~ who own thls country,

ho own this Government, and whose humble representatives we are-and sometimes we do not represent very well-a.re the. ones who constitute this Government. We are< only thei:r agents, theil' servants, their employee~ occupying these places for the few fleeting days. They· have reserved to themselves the ri:mt to recall . us-not to recall us. perhaps~ until the end of n givelll period, but to L"ecall us at the- end: of a given. period of months•

Recall us how?' . Every man sitting in the Ho.use of Representa-: tives is subject to. recall. at the end of the 2!tmonths at the longest,. b~ the elertton ot a new man in his place-subject to- recall by ' not elect-ing him any more. Every man in this body is subject· to recall at the end of six years by the people declining to elect him any more. And the Pl:'esident. the mere occupant of

· that offtce, however great h-e may be. is subject. according to the will: ar· the> American people, at the- end of four years to- be recalled:. Wh.i.J'eo we are mere transitory occupants of the p-osition, the positio-n remains. the Government continues; this great people through that Government continue tO: speak. and any man who speaks other than according to thei'l' wUll as laid· down in the Constitution treacherou ly belies his1 position and treacherously betrays his people and his country, and usurpation is as vile a form of treachery as has ever defacedJ the ch.a racter of a man or passed1 its bloody finger across the pages of history. . N~w. sir, I ant to- call attention to some facts in regard to

how we got into this war, and I think tha:t as- 1 proceed I can · dissipate the mists that have been1 createdJ by Llmumerable . speeches· and innumerable written articles .. some ot them from the lips and some- of them from the pens of great men:, but usually followed by a large brood of lesser men who are mere echoes of the great men who haYe first spoken. I am going to take a little time to follow this. th.Jrougl'l. and when I get through I shall be glad to have somebody: tell IJle< wh~ where, and how the· peopie of the United States be.came the guaranto.rs · of the peace- of Europe.

Why, what is this doctrine we· are fiemring,.. that we went over to Europe and ~a-aged in a war to save- Europe; we stopped the onrushing Hun ; we-rolled back the broody tidal wave of the German military machine, if I may se bad.:ly.· mix a metaphor ; ' we saved Etll'ope; and now. because· we aved Europe, we have : to, stay over tbe:re and guard ber and tlle rest of the world for · all time? And if we do not do it,. we. are. co.wards. No--it we . undertake it, we are fools. .

I saw a cartoon which exactly illustrates it. Ii do not know what artist drew it. There was a. muddy. filthy creek., out of ) whlch a bedraggled female had been dragged by old Uncle. Sam, and in the process he had become a tittle· muddied himself, 1

standing on. the banks, with the- woman rescued. She is pic~ tured as throwing her arms around Uncle Sam's neck and screaming, "You have saved me~ now you have got to marry me." [Laughter.]

It is an exact parallel. We saved~ Europe, ant]. DQW we are· to be united to her in the holy bonds of matrimony, aad we a:re to take care of the wllole family, the entire- flock of children. The countries that, according to the theory· here, ought to be in the penitentiary and locked up we are- to establish mandatodes over. .

What is a mandatory? Let us get away from these new terms. A mandatory is a military oc~upation. It is an agreement that the United States will place an army in a country and hold it under the· mailed heel of a war. an-d that we shall

.continue to. occupy that c<>uutry and tO: compel it to yield to our will, exactly as the Roman legions once camped upon a con· quered country and Rome set up her imperial banners and her government.

A mandatory in Turkey means an ~ big enough to hold Turkey- in subjection. A mandatory in any part of the wortd · means that our men must make it an armed: earup, and that our guns shall open their threatening mouths and shaU be ready to speak annihilation of all whom we bold in. subjection. That,. sir, means the s rvice of American boys.

Mandatories! A maildatory .in Turkey: means that we shall . send, in my opinion, not less than hali a million men there perhaps a million, to hold the country in thra.U; for, mark you: the Turks. number 1'1,000,000 men... and, if 1 recollect correctly, th~y are about 5,000 miles from oar coast. The Turk has been one-of the best fighters in the wori:d. for the past 700· years, and an army of less than that I have named would be liable to annihilation at any time. Call it not mandatory; let us call it military occupa.ney.

1\lr. President, let us go back. Let us trace the way we got into this war, the obligations we did assume, and also the statements that wel,"e made to the American. people. It will take only

. a moment to lead up to the main point.; but in order that I may, do it consecutively, I ·call attention to a few dates. ·

August 2~ 1914. war broke out in . Europ& between Germany .,ami, France. I believe it was a day or two. lateJ.• that Great Britain entered; but that is immaterial. ·

On .August 4 Belgium was oveiTUn by the- advancing German Armies. The neutrality of Belgium was vrolate<.L The treaty

, that Germany had wifu ~gium, to- whicll! we w~re a p<.trty through Th-e Hague conveutio;J, wus tF ateu· a.· a: scrap· (}f

, paper: an l yet, th~ugh that nrt had be 11. d1me in the face of

8288 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. KovE IBER 11 '

the w rid, on August 4, 1914, the President of the United States proclaimed the absolute neutrality of the United States.

On August 9 Liege \\as occupied, after lhe most terrific bombardment that ha<-1 occurred in all the history of the world up to that time.

On August 14 the Senator from Nebraska [Mr. HrrcHcocK] introduced a bill to preyent the shipment of arms or of provisions to the all.ied powers. I say allied powers ; the bill was general in its nature, but at that time the only powers that could import food from the United States were the allied power , for already the Navy of Great Britain had swept the seas clean of practically all German craft.

It is well to have these dates in mind. If that bill had passed it would not have been six months before England and France would have lain prostrate at the feet of Germany, for without american provisions and without American supplies France and England would have been overwhelmed by Germany. Every man knows that now. I do not challenge the good faith of the Senator from Nebraska when he introduced that bill. I do not charge him with pro-Germanism, a term that is too much bandied about the Senate, for every time a man indicates opposition to anything that is suggested from the White House somebody intimates pro-Germanism. But if that bill had passed, Germany would hav.e dominated in Europe.

On the 19th day of August, after the German foot was on the neck of Belgium and Germany's S\\Ord was pressed to the Belo-ian heart, after the atrocities of which we have heard so much had been committed, after neutrality had been violated and treaties torn to shreds, after it was plain that Germany had entered upon her career of frightfulness, President Wilson, in an appeal to the American people for neutrality, stated:

The United States must be neutral in fact as well as in name during these days that are to try men's souls. We must be impartial in thought as well as in action ; we must put a curb upon our sentiments as well as upon every transaction that might be construed as a preference of one party to the struggle before another.

The next day, on August 20, the German armies marched into Brussels. On. August 24 Namm· was taken. On August 26 Louvain was taken, and the French Army, dri\en back day after day, retreating, fighting gallantly, but carpeting all the soil with their glorious dead, were dri\en back in consternation and in defeat.

England was marshaling her little host of men and rushing them into the conflict. But during the early days of the \\ar when Germany's purpose was plain, and when it was plain she intended to overwhelm the democracy of the world and estaiJli h the autocracy of force, while all that was going on we were pursuing a policy of being neutral in thought a · well as in deed. .

September G to September 10 were the four bloody days of the first battle of the Marne. The Germans reached the extreme point of their advance. With the French troops standing with their backs to the wall, the old French commander gave the word, "They shall not pass"; and so behind windJ:ows of their own dead the French stood and died, and died, until at la t .they compelled the Germans to yield.

But the Germans did not go back to their ewn soil. Upon the secred lands of Belgium and of France they made their camps. They established their ground fortres es. Every trench bristled with guns, and they intended to hold this land of France and of Belgium. Their line was 300 miles long. And so they stayed, their clutch of steel upon the throat of France and of Belgium ; and still we maintained our policy of neutrality in thought and in deed.

About that time a great American began to demand that the United States should enter the contest. He put his doctrine upon the ground that the treaties \\e had, The Hague convention and other treaties, had been in fact violated. I did not agree with him in his construction. I believed in the doctrine of neutrality. Yet I say, if we e\er were to commit our· selves to the philosophy that it is our business to protect the world and to rescue the people of the world, then Theodore Roose\elt was right in what he saicl, :mel we should ha-ve acted then.

On May 7, 1915, the tragedy of history occurred, an e\ent that \\as so black and so hellish that after its occurrence no man could doubt the cruel purpose of Germany. There she was, a floating palace, 700 feet long, ller decks crowded with happy men and women, her steerage filled with returning eri:tigr:ants, going back to their own ·bore . Little children were playing in the steerage and were hugged to the humble bo oms of their mothers with infinite lo\e. On the upper decks ladies and gentlemen, with · their familie , were enjoying the glories of a May day. Tb,e bands were playing, and there ·was a song in ewry heart, for they were approaching their destination, and peace \\as abol.1t. to come.

Off yonder under the waves lay the as as in of the sea in wait, and the German commander, with finger to the electric button, waited for the fateful moment when he could send into the bowels of that ship a deadly torpedo. He pres ·ed it in obedience to the command of his Government, and into the ocean's gaping mobth went down this palace of the sea, and men and women, shrieking to God for mercy, and holding up their hands, went into the eternal silence and night of death, and mothers held up their babes, as they went down, that the little ones might have a last gasp of breath.

If we never knew before, we knew then that democracy wa in peril. If we did not know it then, there was nothing that e-ver happened afterwards to show it to us. If it was our duty to interfere on behalf of the democracy of the world and the civilization of the world, those things that are rolled now in platitudinous volume from the lips of orators were then apparent to all the world. Yet, sir, we did not enter the contest. We maintained neutrality in thought and deed as nearly as we could. Although the American people were being killed in that way, yet we adhered to these policies.

What did our Government say? We sent this polite note to Germany:

Recalling the humaue and enlightened attitude hitherto assumed by the Imperial German Government in matters of international right and particularly with regard to the freedom of the seas; having r learned to recognize the German views and the German influence in the · field of international obligation as always on the side of justice and humanity, i:he Government of the United States was loth to believe, it can not now bring itself to believe, that these acts, so absolutely contrary to the rules, practices, and the spirit of modern warfare, could have the countenance or sanction of that great Government.

• • • • • Long acquainted, as this Government has been, with the character

of the Imperial German Government and with the high principles of equ.ity by which they have in the past been actuated and guided the Government of the United States can not believe that the commanders of the vessels which committed these acts of lawlessness did so except , under a misapprehension of the orders issued by the Imperial German naval authorities.

Of course, that was the language of diplomacy, and I make all allowance for its politeness and moderation on that account. But we did assert to Germany then that she had violated the laws of the sea and in that violation many of our Americans had gone to their death, and Germany to this day never has disclaimed responsibility for that act.

On the same date that this message was sent to Germany the President, in an address to newly naturalized American citizens in Philadelphia, stated:

The example of America must be a . special example. The example of America must be the example of peace, not merely because it will · not .fight, but of peace because peace is the healing and the elevating : influence of the world and strife is not. There is such a thing as a man being too proud to fight.

Yet in violation of our ~ights on the seas, on that same daY. the IAtsitania had gone do\\ll into the waves forever, and Amer· ican men and women had said good-by for the last time as the waves swallowed them up. ·

I do not say this in criticism. I believed then it was our duty, as I believe now it was our duty, to keep out of European quarrels if we could, and that much might be endured before we would thrust this country into war.

But, sir, if the doctrine that it was our business to enter to make the world safe for democracy ; if the doctrine that it wa& our business to enter in order to set up new governments; if the doctrine that it was our business to establish in the world a new order of things is true to-day, it was just as true then, for Germany's fell purpose and hellish appetite was as well manifested then as it ever was. It was not our doctrine, as I shall show you. . It wa& not the doctrine of the President.

On October 11, 1915, the war still going on, Germany not having disclaimed the IAtsitania, in an address to the Daughters of the American Revolution, the President stated:

America stands apart in its ideals; it ought not to allow itself to be drawn, as far as its heart ~s concerned, into anybody's quarrel. ·

And yet at ~at time the red :flame of war was scorching all central Europe; at that time the same quarrel was on that we after\\ards entered because of peculiar reasons applicable to ourselves.

I say again, if we entered the war for the purpose of reforming the world, ch;mging the map, liberating people, defending

. democracy everywhere, setting up a new order of thing , the necessity was as manifest then as it e\er has been.

Now, Mr. President, in making a comparison, I may say I do it with utmost respect, both for the living and the dead, but in article after article former President Roosevelt had been insisting with n terrific power during all these months that it was the duty of the United States to enter thi contest. I did

1}) 19. CO.r GRESSIONAL RECORD___,SENATE .. 8289 not agree with him then~ I do not gree now with 'his views: 'On May :20. 1916, in ..a::n addr.e ·s- n.t .Chari e, N.C., he said: . but it is importn.nt to state them, .becau e., . ..sir. l am gOing to The .European war • • ~ i.s a competition of foreign standards, read you what wa , in fact, the President~ reply :to ltbese mt- of Jtati·ona1 traditi(}n~. and of national politicliJ--i)oiitical . systems. repeate<l demands. We diu not hear anything tben about making the world safe

In llls annual message ·o Congr.ess on December 13 ~915~ fhe for democracy; we beard nothing then about 'Civilization being President aid: at 'Stake. We henrd~ on the ·eontrary" that-

During these days of terribl~ "War it would 'Seem 'that evecy- :man who The Eoropean war is •a competitirul of foreign l!lbln.dards, of national was truly an American would instinctiv~ly make it his duty and .his traditions. and of natlon:ll ,politics-poliUcal sy£tems. pride to keep the scales of judgment even and JU"OVe himself a partisan of no nation but his own. On 11Iay 27, 1916, the P.resident delivered au address before the

T.hnt was a sound Amerieari doctrine, acco:rding to my -view ; League to Enforce Peace-Mr. Taft'~ league, now blossoming but it was brought out to meet the insistence {)f former· Presi- forth like the fuU-blown rose, and .t:irumced by the international dent Roo velt and ather men who were adhering to his views. banker whose vision is long enough to see aeross the- Atlantic

Then, on January 31, 1916, in his peeeh at Milwaukee, the and to behold the golden harvest awaiting b1s financial sickle. President , aid: · · and financed by them, according te a statement sent oul by l\lr.

There i no precedent in American history for any action -wbicb might Tates own league, the eontents of which have been ptrt in the mean that Am<>rica is seeking to ·conneet ber ·elt with the controversies RECORDA Tbe genesis o1 that highly patriotie organization I on the other side of the water. ill!!n who se~>k to provoke such action h 11 · · li 1 bave fot•gotten the ·trndJtlon of the United State"!. but it 'behoove :tbose £ a gl:Ve you m .a ttle whhe from an address by the -distin-you have intrusted with office to remember the traditions of the United gulshe(] Senator from Nebraska, who gave us its OTigin and its State . history and its inspiration in 1912, when he made a great speech

I want to read that again. in the Senate--a great American speecl:1; but in .his address to Thel'e is no precedent 1n American 'history for any action -which might that .organization the 'President declared:

mean that America is seeking to connect her~lf with the 'Controversies on the other side of the water. Men wbo set>k tc provoke such action The GI'ea:t War that <broke so suddenly upon the world two years ago, bave forgotten the traditions of the United State . but It behooves those and which has swept within its flame so great a part of the civilized you have intrusted with office to remember the tradi.tions of the United ~vo.rld, has affected us very profoundly, and we are not only at liberty, States. Lt IS perhaps our duty, to pPllk very tra.n.kl.y of lit and of the great inter-

ests of civilization which it .aff«'ts. Sound doctrine then ; sound doctrine now. American doctrine With its causes and ·its objects we ru-e .nat conoomed. ·The ob'senre

then; American doctrine now~ the doctrine of Washington r~ fountains trom 'Which Its stupendous ftood bas burst forth we are not juvenated, if you please, and resanctified, and again uttered. interested to-.seareh for c()? explor~ . .

Again, on February 1, 19l6, at Des Moines, Iowa, the Pl·esic1ent ~'With its e.atlSe!' and its objects we re not eoocerned.3J Why?

said: Because we were fu.llowing our traditional .f)Oliey .of all<ming There are actually men in America who are prea.<'hing wax:, who are those nations to work out their own systems of government in

prPa.rhing the duty of the UnitE-d States to dl.) what lt nPver woulil be- th · B.,.... if "' 'b te d h. fore--s<>ek entan,A'lemf'Ilts in the controversies which :have a1·isen on mr nwn ·way. u~. v:e iVer.e ever ·t.O. ave <en re t IS war the other side of the water-abandon its habitual and traditional policy ' for tile purposes ·n.ow proclaimed t'\VO years or three years after and deliberately engage in the conftlct w-hich ls now engulfing the rest lYe entered it, these purposes W"Pre ~ eut then .and we were of the world. :I do not lrnow what the stundar(J of cit:izensb..i~ol these inter ed in tbe cau~es and in the 'Objects. f~~e~t~~d~~as. be. I only know that I for one can not' su cri:be to AgaJn .and .only shertly .after that-1 beli-eve 1t as about the

But, moa:rk rou, at tllat time we kn.ew all -of the sad events I 16th day .of August-we held a Demoeratlc -convention, and the have re.eite<l, ·and we knew that bloody battle after battle was w.onderfu'l speech mnde by Gov. Glynn .at that Democratic congoing on. \V.e rknew all those stories of atrocity., w~ther true ven:tion was !i>Ub'mltted in advance and dmy _pa ed tUPOD and upor false we do not know to-day, but we have read of the -eruct- proved. It is so fine :a piece o:f oratory that I would be warfixion of men; we knew that .poison gas was being spewed .out ranted in reading all of it, in putting a into the 'REooRD and in to eat the lungs of men; we knew that submarines had been sent takin.,. the precious time of the Senate ln .(]oill.g -so; but.. briefly, furth to cr.eep along the bottom of the ocean to olow up ·un~ h~ t-ecited the history cJf this ronntry from the first, ;adv~rted to suspecting .ships; we 'knew that execution after execution had evei:y controversy of a 11ationnl cllaracrer we had J:md. He occurred; we knew that cities bad been sacked and that men painted in the blackest charncte.rs tbe uatmre of t:1:m wrongs unand women had been stood up in line and shot been use of their der which we had suffered, .and after eaeh weture was presented loyalty to their own country. At least an those 3to-ries were he always wonnd .up with this sentence, •• Did we fighU We did told to us. God !mows, 1 bope, when the :mists are cleared ·away, not. We nf>gotiated." we shall find that many of ·them were untrue and that German After a resum~ of all of these eases tl'le gov.ernor, in 1mpas-· character never sank to sueh a low e tate. But this we know. sioned declamation. proceeded to his argument. I shall not read that whate,·er .causes there were to -enter into t11e conflict .in it all, but I want to read a little Qf it: Europe fqr the purpose of preserving the democracy of the If, in the great criSis that now confronta tire NaUon, tbe Ameriean world, those causes wer-e as .ap_parent then as they were the last people falter, if they forget tha1: they ~e guardians '<>f the most acred day of the war. trust that a people .t'ver held. .their apostasy will ,be ~isited upen the

descendants of their childr-en's children. Not a new thing in ·Germany's policy developed, except what I

shall refer to, when she undertook to extend her submarine He was discussing an apostasy from tlle doctrines .of Wn.sh-warfare to the entire ocean. ington that lYe were to remain free from European disturbances.

Again, on February .2, 1916, 1n a. speech at Knn. as City be He continued :: said : . ' Out of the flaming .fire of revoluti{)n, ont of a struggle in which they

It would tear the heartstrings of ..Ame?ica to be at war with any risked 'thetr lives, theh· fortunes, and their sacred honor, the fathers of the .cn·eat nations of the world. We can show our "-in-..dsht'p for of ·the Republic ·brought a Natio.n which they dedicated to liberty and

~· "L<:OU to .human progress. . the world and our devotion to th~ prineiples o! humanity better and For the Nation so consecrated true men tn eveey generation bave mor~ .e1Iectively by keeping out of this struggle than by getting into it. labored and struggled, suffered and died. tba.t tt 'liii.ght flourish and

At the r1 k of weacying you-and yet nothing that the Presi- en(Jure. d t h · d ld th s te 1 We who stand to-day on the f.ertil.~ soU o1 Ameriea, who live under en as SUI cou weary e ena • am snre, particularly the smning skies of a free and fruitful land, must prove worthy the :Senators on my side of the .Cba.mber-1 want to read it .. of the trust tba~ American saeri.fice ·bas imposed on every American. again. For the Amertca of to-day and for the Am<>rica of to-morrow, for the

civilization .of the present and for the civilizati-on of the future, we On February 2, 1916, be S.'tid : must hold to the cnurse that has made our Nation great · we must steer It would tear tbe heartstrings of America to be at wm· with any by the stars tha.t guided our ship of state thrnugh the V1Cis ltudes of a

of the great nations of the world. We can show our friendship for · century. the world and our devotion to the principles ol bumanity betwr and F..or my.self, I ha-ve .confidence enoogh .in my eounh~, 'faith enough in mor.e e1Iectively by keeping out of thls struggle than by getting into it. .my countrymen, to believe that the people of America will .rise to their

On February 24, 1916, in a letter to Senator Stone, chairman responsibilities with a single mind and a Ingle ~o.lce. o:f the Foreign Relations Committee, my lamented colleague a.nd What is this doctrine he is discussing? Follow roe on through friend, the President said: the lines that succeed:

You are t1ght in assuming that I shall ao everything in my power -to One hundred and forty years ago the manhood of .Am.erka- was called kef'p the United States out of war. • • • 1 do not doubt that I upon to decide whether this should be a Nation. Half a cen'tnry ago shall continue to succeed. Americans were forced to determine whether this shllold contirme to

And yet, I repeat, if tlle demo.eracy of the wo>I"Ld ~ ... 8 ever been be a Nation. To-day the Republie faces a third crisis no less mo-J.I<4 mentous than that of 1776 or that of 186(). "::..''Hlay .Amerieans must

in danger that danger -was manifest at that time. If it wa.s again determine whether their countr_y shalJ preserve tts na.tlonal ideals, ever our duty to interfere o that ~ ,.,.,~ d ;wM.tber it shaD have a national oul, whether .tt .s.hal1 taod forth as n groun.u.,. L.UV grmm now a mighty and ondbdded force, whether the 'United States :!or -wh.ieh alleged, the duty existed then. Washington fought and for which Lincoln died shall hold its -place

On March 13, 1916, in .an .add£ess to .a .delegation .of .Scarrdi:na- among the nations. vlans at th.e White Honse, the President said; For two years the world has been ailr-c ~ the civilization .tfutt we

kru>w ba.s been torn by the mightiest struggle m I-ts history. Sparks 1 can assure you that netbing is nearer my heart tba.n keeping t'hiB from Europe's eonfta~on hav-e lli112~ 1u our (}WD skies, eeb.oe:s .of her

country eut of the war. strife have ~ounded at our very doors. That fire sti.ll burn , that

8290 OONGRESSION AL . RECORD--SEN ATE. N OVEl\IBER 1·1,

struggle still continues ; but thus far the United States bas held the flame at bay; thus far it has saved its people from participation in the conflict.

What the people of the United States must determine through their suffrage- .

Ko'iY, he is stating the issue of the campaign-is whether the course the country has pursued through this crucial period is to be continued; whether the principles that have been asserted n. om· national policy shall be indorsed or withdrawn.

Whether, indeed, I interpolate, we were to continue to follow ilie policies of Washington or were to abandon them and to enter the European struggle. The orator continued:

This is a paramount issue. No lesser issue must cloud it; no unrelated problems must confuse it.

In the submission of this issue to the electorate-" In the submission of this issue to the electorate"!

we of this convention hold these truth.s to be self-evident to every stuuent of America's history, to every friend of America's institutions:

Fir.·t. That the United States is constrained by the traditions of its pa t, by the logic of its present, and by the promise of its future, to hold it elf apart from the European warfare, to save its citizens from participation in the conflict that now devastates the nations across the ea.

Yet, if we were ever to fight for democracy, the blow should have been struck long before that; if we were to fight for Europe and sa'i"e Europe, the blow should ha'i"e been struck long before that.

Second. That the United States in its relations with the European belligerents must continue the policy that it bas pursued since the beginning of the war, the policy of strict neutrality in relation to every warring nation, the policy which Thomas Jefferson defined as "rendering to all the services and courtesies of friendship and praying for the r e taiJlishment of peace and right. . ..

Third. That save where the liberties, the territory, or the substantial rights of the United States ar~ invaded and assaulted, it is the duty of this Nation to avoid war by every honorable means.

And it was the violation of that third provision which afterwards urought us into th~ war and furnished the only just cau e for our entering the war. But let us see how this doctrine comports with the modern doctrine that it is our business to . tny in Europe, Asia, and Africa and govern the world and, 'ith our armies aml our navies, force our will, either our joiut or our several wills, upon all men and women on this earth.

Fourth. That is is the duty of the United States Government to maintain the dignity and thP honor of the American Nation and in every situation demand and secure from every belligerent the recognition of the neutral rights of its <:itizens.

Fifth. That because tbe President of the United States has asserted tbe:o;c principles and pursued these policies the American people must upport him with ardor and enthusiasm, in order that these principles

and policies may be known tQ all the world not as the opimon of an individual but as the doctrin~ and faith of a loyal and united Nation.

And then, to prove that the President was right, he proceeded: In emphasis of these self-evident propositions we assert that the

policy of neutrality is as truly American as the American flag. Ob . what is this new doctrine that there are to be no neutrals,

for that is what the President said; that in all the wars that .may devastate the world hereafter there is never to be another neutral; that all nations are to be concerned? Yet the doctrine of neutrality in the early days of August, 1916, was as much ..american as the American flag, according to the spon or and nominator of our candidate for President.

He continued: For 200 years neutrality was a tlleory; America made it a fact. The first President of the United States was the first ma.t;1 to pro

nounce neutrality a rule of international conduct. ' In April, 1793, Washington declared the doctrine ; and within n. month

John Jay, Chief ·Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States, in an epoch-making decision from the bench, whose realization would insure universal and perpetual peace, wrote the principle into the law of this land. The Declaration of Independence had foretold it by declaring "t.l.te rest of mankind enemiE.'s in war, in peace friends"; the Constitution recognized it; but the first President of the Unlted States by proclamation, the first Chief Justice by interpretation, gave it vitality. and power.

And so neutrality is American in its initiation. But now there are to be no more neutrals. We are to sign

away the birthright that Washington bequeathed us, and for the doctrine· of neutrality substitute the doctrine that there shall be no more neutrals in this world; and if you do not do it you are cowards, according to the polite language of the advocates of this doctrine of peace. Truly, they employ fighting language in the advocacy of the dovecote and the proclamation of its sweet cooings.

Thirty years later- Said this orator-Prime Minister Canning, in the British Parliament, pointed to . this American policy of neutrality a,s a model for the world ; and 80 years later, after approval by various statutes and agreements, it was written, almost word for wora, in the treaty wherewith we settled our differen.ces with England over TiolaUons of neutrality throughout the Civil War. "

And so neutrality is American in its consummation. And to-day In this hall, so that all the world may hear, we proclaim

that this American policy of neutrality is the policy which the present admini ttation pursues with patriotic zeal and religious devotion ; while

Europe's skies blaze red from fires of war, Europe's soil turns red from blood of men, Europe's eyes see red from tears of mourning women and from sobs of starving children.

The men who say this policy is not American can appeal to passion n.nd to prejudice and ignore the facts of history. .

Neutrality is America's contribution to the laws of the world. Sir Henry Maine says so, Charles Francis Adams says so, Henry Clay says so, Daniel Webl!!ter says so1 and upon the evidence of these witnesses we rest O'Ul' Ameri~a.nism r.gamst the spntterings of pepper-pot politician or the fabrications of those with whom a false issue is a good issue until its falsity is shown, its maliciousness exposed.

This was his answer ·to those who were then clamoring that the democracy of the world and the civilization of the earth were at issu~ in Europe. The answer was, neutrality ; stand upon the sohd ground that Wa hington told us to stand upon namely, the. soil of America. '

To win this priceless right of neutrality this Nation had to undergo a long and painful .struggle.

It t?~k Washi;ngton with his allies and sword eight yeai'S to win recogmtion of his· country's Uberty · it took Washington and. his successors 80 years of .endless negotiation to win recognition of American neu?"ality. And this 80 years of struggle wove the doctrine of neutrali~y so closely into the warp and woof of our national Ufe that to tear It out now would unravel the very threads of our existence.

That is exactly what you are trying to do here to-day. That is what this treaty does. It tears the threads out of the warp and woof of the n~tional life and threatens our very exi tence.

He continued, but he was not a prophet: Where is the American hardy enough to challen"'e a policy o firmly

fixed in the Nation's traditions'? _ ."" Behold all these ! · He did not reckon on their courage their

sublime disregard alike of danger, of law, of ConstituUo~ and ~trnill~~ · '

Is there among us any man bold enough to set his wisdom n.bove that of Washington? ·

Not then, but shortly t4ey carne forth, a well-hatched group, almost as numerous as the partisan whip could herd together within the confines -of the country. ·

Is there among us any man bold enough to set his wisdom above that of Washington?

You haYe be~n told in this Chamber that 'Vashington is a back number; that he has been dead a long while; yet I say, sirs, that a thousand· years from this day, if civilization still lives and men love the name of liberty, the hand of patriotism will pluc~ the blossoms from the tomb of Washington and press them lovingly as a memento of the immortal one.

Is there among us any man bold enougb' to set his wisdom above that of Washington, his patriotism above that of Hamilton a:nd his Americanism above that of Jefferson? Is there any American so blind to our past, so hostile to our future that, departing from our policy of neutrality, be would burl us headlong into the maelstrom of the war across the sea? · .

The P1·esident of the United Stutes stands to-day where stood the · men who made Americn. and who sa"Ved .America. · ·

He stands where John Adams stood when -he told King George that America was the land he loved and that peace was her grandeur and her welfare. He stands where Gen. Grant stood when be satd there never was a war that could uot have been settled better some other way, and he bas sllown hi willingnes to try the ways of peace bef-ore be seeks the paths of war. _ ·.

He stands where George Washington stood when he prayed that this country would never unsheatb the sword except in selt-c1efense ·so Ion•' as justice and our essential rights could be preserved without' it. - · .,

Self-defense, not the defense of Czechoslovakia, not the def~se of Poland, not the defense of Japanese territory, not the defense of British posses ions that in plotche of red obscure one-third of the map of the Eastern Hemisphere that hangs ri>on this wall, out self-defense of this country; our own defense. : · For vainglory or for selfish purpose others may cry up a policy of

blood an!! iron, but the President of the United States has acted on the belief that the leader -of a nation -·who plunges his people into an unnecessar y war, like Pontius Pilate vainly washes .his hands of innotent blood while the earth quakes and thousands give up the ghost.

Only by standing on this rock of Americanism-! am reading from a Democratic campaign book, and ·ee how

large they printed these letters: Only by standing on this rock of Americanism against which uashed

the waves of conflict could the President of the United States; faced by a world in arm , save this country from being drawn into the whirlpool of disastet·. One false atep in any direction :md he would have carried the Nation 'with him Qver the precipice.

By opposing what we stand for t o-day the Republican Party opposes what Hamilton stood for a century ago.

Now. you Republicans oYer there can answer whether you stood for it, whether this i · u just indictment or not. It is none of my business to defend you. I know this is what we said when we went to the .American people to get yote , when we appealed to their hearts and to their consciences. ·

The founder of the Republican Party and the founder of the Democratic Party, placing their country's happiness above every. other ~consideration, forgot partisanship and made American neutral~ty a natiOcQal creed. We who follow Jefterson stand where Jefferson stood, but we look in vain for a sign from the present leaders of the Republican Party to show that they follow where Hamilton led. · · - r 1

Where Hatnllton thought only .of country, . they thou~ht only of self. Where Hamilton placed patriotism above partisanship, they placed parti anshlp above patriotism. Ilow long do they dare to peak for

-

'

1919. OONGRESSION AL RECORD- SEN ATE. 8291 tllc great body of .Ameri<"an citizens who form the rank and file of the Republican Party? Do these leaders believe tltat their Republicanism is a better Republicanism than Hamilton's, ·their .Americanism a purer Americanism than that of Washington? .

UnlPss statesmanship has fallen into disrepute among Republicans, the men who controlled the. ChJc..'lgo convention can not read .Alexander Hamilton out of the Republican Party. Unless I mistake the temper of the American people the Republican bosses can n·o more lead their adlwrents away from the neutrality for which Washington and Hamilton struggled than they can lead U1em away from the flag for which Washington and Hamilton fought.

Then come" the headline " Inconsistency Laid Bare." . If 'Yash~ngton was right, if Jefferson was righ t , if Hamilton was

rtght, if Lmcoln was right, then the President of the United States is right to-day ; if. the H.epublic::. n leaders are right then Lincoln wa~ ~vrong and Jeffer on was wrong and Hamilton was wrong and Wasb-mgton was wrong. - · ·

In all tlle l.i istory of the world t.bere i no other national policy that llas justified itself so completely.

Tow, get this, Democrats: In all the history of the world there is no other national policy that

has justified itself so completely and entirely as the American policy of neutrality and isolation from the quarrels of European powers.

Of course, that was tru.e in August, 1916. Mr. GORE. June. Mr. REED. That is the date I have. Was it June? :Ur. GORE. The convention was in June. Mr. REED. Then it was in June. I was at the convention,

and I heard the speech, one of the most remarkable speeches I have ever heard, one of the ·greatest ones. He continues:

Before we declared our neutra,lity we were embroiled in all the troubles of Great Britain, France, and Spain: since then we have bad less than three years ot war with Europe and llG years or amity and peace.

But now we are entering upon a new, policy, where we can have 116 years of war as against a possible 3 years of amity and peace. for now we embroil ourselves in all the quarrels of Europe. There are 23 wars going on there now, and there have been fought in Europe in the last 105 years. over 106 wars, 50 of them being great wars. And we had only 3 years of war in all that time, according to this orator.

Mr. THOl\IAS. That leaves out the Civil War. :\~Jr. REED. ""e do not count our own domestic war, which

we had under a league of States, composed of one people, living under one law, with one religion, and yet it did not prevent the only great war we ever had. He continues:

Before this tleclara lion every war was a world war-That is, before our declarati~n made l>y_ 'Vashington. Before this declaration war was a whirlpool ever inereasin~ in area

and in its whirl dragging down the nations of ·the earth ; smce this .11eclaration war has become a sea of trouble upon which nations embark only from self-will, from self-interest, or the necessity of geogmphical position, of financial obligation, or political alliance.

Ab, ' let me call yom· attention to the great truth there uttered. Before the rloctrine of neutrality, says this author, was established by Washington we were embroiled in the wars ' of every nation, but the ·result of it was the circum~cribing of war, delimiting it to particular nations through 116 years it had gone on. Now 'Ye vropose to . abandon neutrality; aye, more, to make an absolute contract to l>ecome participants in the war, and to thus throw ourselves into thi " maelstrom; aye, ·help to create it. Is it not enough to alm:m every ·.A.mericap.? Is it not enough to open even the <lull ears of the adder, that bas closed her ear. that she may '1ot hear? This continues:

Neutrality is the policy which has kept us at peace while Europe has been driving the nails of war through the bands and feet of a crucified humanity.

Now we propose to enter the Eui·opean s truggle. It has bani.hed conquest from our program of national greatness.

It has made us find our destiny at home. It has forced us to build on the brawn· of our sons and the energy

of our daughters rather than upon the tears of conquered women aml the ulood of conquer~d men. It has made us seek treasure in our harvests, wealth in our fields by staying our bands from war's blood-stained pot of gold. It bas been the flaming sword which forbade us to devastate the Eden of others and compelled us to make an Eden of our own. It bas freed us from the paralyzing touch of Europe' s power, leavlnJ? to Europe tbe rllings that arc Europe's and ~~~~e1U:ff ~~~ ~~:r1~;rs~he independence, the peace. and the bappi-

As a result of this poli<'Y America :.;tands se11enc and confident mighty and proud, a symbol of peace and liberty in a world aflame' a sanctuary where the lamp of civilization burns clPar and strong' a li'dng, breathing monument to the statesmanship of the great Amen~ cans who kept it free from the menace of European war.

But uow we mu t rn.ix in all their wars, tlefend all tllese countries, and we are quibbling about whether we ai·e going to do ' it jointly ot· severally. · ·

Wealth has come to us, power has come to u~, but better than wealth or power we have maintained for ourselves and i'or our 4 Cbi)dten - a Nation uedicated to the ideals of peace rather tban to the gospel of' selfishness and slaughter. -

llut, sa:r our critics, this polit-y satisfie no one.

LVIII--:i23

This is ·where the Republicans come in for their share. They mean it does not satisfy those who woultl map out a new a.ntl

untried course for this Nation to pursue, but they forget it tloes satisfy those who believe the United States should Jive up to the principles i t has professed for a century and more. ·

Chief Justice· White of the United States Supreme Court say.· thiF policy has given America the. greatest diplomatic victory of thf' past generation , Maximilian Harden, Germany's noted editor, says ''that never once has this Repuhlic violated its neutrality" ; and Gilbert K . Chesterton, the famous English ·journalist, says "it is the duty of thf' President of the United States to protect the interests of tbe people of the United States " ; that "be can not dip his country into b ell just to show the world be has a keen sense of being an individual savior."

Splendid doctrine; but are we now about to dip our country into this hell spoken of by this writer, that we may ~uccor others? . ·

This policy may not satisfy those who revel in destruction antl find pleasure in despair. It may not satisfy the fire-eater Ol' the swashbuckler, but it does satisfy those who worship at the altar of the gotl of peace.

The god of peace eems to .ha\e moved his altar and changed his doctrine, or w-ritten a new creed, if the e be true priest. serving at the altar1 who now would reverse our theories, change our policies, and embark us upon a career of internationali...In and of nonneutrality. He continues:

It does satisfy the mothers of the land at whose hearth antl firesiue no jingoistic war bas placed an empty chair. It does satisfy the daughters of this land from whom bluster and brag has sent no loving brother to the dissolution of the grave. It does satisfy the fathers of this land and the sons of this land who will fight for our flag and die for our flag when reason primes the rifle, when honor draws the sword, when justice breathes a blessing on the standards they uphold.

That sounds to me like old-fashioned Americanism. I can see the flash of fire from the old flintlock rifles of the Revolution as I read those words. I can hear · the rattle of the sabers of 'Vashington's men as I read those words. It is the soul of Ute past speaking through the lips of a great orator of the present. one to inspire nnd to lead us on. This ~peech won the election. He conpnues:

.And whom, we ask, will the policy of our opponents satisfy, aut1 fo !.· how long'!

Get this, 0 ye of little faith, or, rather, ye with faith so grea t that every vision that comes out of the sky and every voice that comes from the air is to you a nsion of heaven and the voice of God.

·.Anu whom. we ask, will the policy of. our opponents satisfy, and for how long? Fighting for every degree of injury would mean pe.rpetual war, and this is the poli<'Y of our opponents. deny it how they will. It woulll not allow the United States to keep the sword out of the scabbard as long as there remains an unrigbted wrong or an unsatisfied hope be· tween the snowy wastes of Siberia and the jnngled bills of Borneo.

That is . the best pich1re of the 1eague of nations ever drawn. It was painted befol'e the league was conceived, and it may han~ been the inspiration of the league-who know ? For, Gotl wot . where else would it come from? · It would make .America as dangerous to itself antl to others, a s destructive and as uncontL·ollable as the cannon that slipped its mooring~ in Victor Hugo's tale of '93. It would give us a war abroad each ti m~' the fighting cock of the European weather vane shifted with the breeze.

Jt would make .America the cockpit of the world. I do not like to interrupt this wonderful piece of eloquence, !Ju t

I do it, and I read again : It would give us a war abroad each time the fighting cock of tlw

European weather vane shifted with the breeze. And up in Russia, among a people that were late our allie. ·

and who left 6,000,000 of their dead upon the field fighting in the cause, as we now say, of democracy, we have our troops but recently serving because the weather cock of war has turneu in a certain direction. Again we are sending them over to Sile ia, and again we are binding ourselves l>y this document to keep them for 15 years in the Saar Valley. ·

But I continue: It would make America the cockpit of tbe world. It would mean

the reversal of our traditional policy of government. It would mean the adoption of imperialistic doctrines which we have denounced for over a century_ It would make all the other nations the wards of the United States and the United States the keeper of the world.

He was mistaken. It makes all the nations of the world the wards of Great Britain and Great Britain the keeper of the world, with the United States, like one of her colonie~. enjoyin .~ a single vote.

He continues: What would become of the keeper of the world?

Now we and Great Britain stanfl side bY side as keepers of the world-?o; not side by side. 'Ve. are to stand just in the rear of Great Britain, and side by side with Japan. Let me read these words : ·

What would · becom~ of the keeper of .the worid? Wh~t wou1<1 become of . tbe Monroe _ doctrine under. such a.. policy? How long do our oppon~nts suppose we would be allowed to meddle in European affairs while denying Enrope the right to meddle in America·n affairs?

8292 0.0NGRESSIO. AL lREOORJ})-.SENAIDE. N OVEl\IBER 11' I

Get that, ·you Democrats •who went to that con-rention and rJ.ioDOE] if he ·will ·not 'move a reces , or I wilf yield to anyone who shout~c.l :until you nearly · burt -y~mr __ blood vess~. ·Get ·it, those i desi~e to trtkc the 'fio~r. of r on who went upon -the stmirrJ m :your v.arrous States ant1 : TilE snx rn DOLLAR .

. call d your ~~ople · to ra11y tt> the ;Democratic b~er .. tGet 'it, : Mr. rr.;HO:\IA.S. ~l.I:. Pl·esident, I want to speak very I,Jrie.fly all ye l~ade~'S ~ the hosts of democracy who retmned fi om ~at · of an ·event of 0 Teat interest nnd greater importanc to thi · com·ention ,havmg rene\Yed the fires •of ·yo"ur own J;te~rts by !!!'eat country. coaL"3 taken hot from the altar of that great Democratic temJile. : b This is ·the a.nntversru:y ·of the armistice. lt will 'be known to

What would become ·of the 'MOllXoe ,aoct:rine ·under 'SUch a rpolicy'? ' h' t . th d f th ··1 ·· :-\,.'1 f . ·1 " • • Row long do .our opponents ·suppose we woulU be allowed to meddle in ; IS ory as e awn 0 • e new Sl ver JUul ee, or SI_ -.;er yester-European affairs while denying Europe the -right 'to meddle in ·A.morica.n 1 day was quoted ·n.t a ·pr1ce per .ounce in the market m excess of affairs ? The policy of our opponents is a dream- $1.2929, the histm·ic Tatio of 16 to 1. Du.ting the ~arly months

A uream that, ho.vmg been interpreted, :has now become the of the -war the ·Senator :from. Utah -and myself in discussing its ·theme of sta.temen_:_a dream that, it see~ed, would be blessed of , 'J)robable effect ·upon the white metal ·ventured a prediction of partisanship, lose all the hideous characteristics of the theme, ' the coming of this identical accomplishment. Silver is worth and all the ·habilaments and all the lineaments . .of statesmen, . in ·the market at the last quotation $1.3025, or about 15} to 1 now took on the transfiguration of life nnd angelic purity. · with gold; and to-day gold is the cheaper metal of the two.

The policy of our opponents is a oream. It never could be -a pos- . The gold dollar is the short-legged dollar of the time, and tl1e sibility.. It is not ~ven advanced in good faith. . It is simply an appeal : de@ised metal has ·come ·into its own. to passwn and pr1de, to sympathy and _prejudice, to secure ,partisan I h li · .... fr th N y 'k m 'b . 1 tin t h advantage. In a ·word, 'this policy •of ·our •opponents would make the 1 • ave a .c munb om . e e.w or ...... n une re !1 g . 0 t e United States the policeman .of the world. , subJect which I ask unarumous consent to have prmted m the

And to-day the tailors ·of the Senate are layina ou·t the ·cloth 1 RECORD. I shall not detain. the Senate at this ·time ·by any fur-and cutting the uniforms for .the polic-emen. • ther comment upon ·this really. epochal ;fact-a fact which ·n;tust

Rome tried to be policeman of the world, and went clow,n. ·Portugal profoundly a~ect th~..finances of ' th~ world and ~e~d the nations 1Ti-ed to be policeman of the world, a.nd went down. S_patn trieu, and back to the lnmetallic standru.'d which they unwrse.Iy abandoned went down; Wld t~e pntted .S:f:ates proposes to pr~fit .by the experience 4:0 or 50 years ago. I shall tnke occasion at some more favorof the _agt>.s and a.vo1d ambttions whose reward 1s sorrow and ·whose able time to address the Senate upon the ·need for utilizing this crown lS death. f . . f 4} liz ti f :h

0 . t 1 .1 d ·by distimmished S . t .. ortunate s1tun.tion or L 1e permanent equa a on o exc ange , I ea app a use, e . " b e_na or · , between these ·two historic money metals. The~ follows a beadlme, Woodrow Wilson, _the Man . . _ The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Without objection, the r e-

. _j_meriCanism ~d peace, prpp~ess and pr~enty-these a.re the quest of the Senator from Colorado is granted. J..SSUe upon which the Democratic Party stands, -and the heart <if. , • democracy . .swells with ;pride that is more than a •pride of party, a.s it The matter referred .to lS as follows: haiL'3 the man who has asserted ·this Americanism, assured this peace, ad>oca.ted this preparedness, and produced this pro per:ity. · ·

The man who is President of the Un.ited States to-day ha measured up to the best traditions of a .grcat office. . JTe has been wise with a wisdom that is steeped in the traditions ·of

his country, with a wisdom that has been disciplined by training and broa <l<'ned by instruction. ·

liP has been prudent with the prudence of one who has within hi ~ han<ls the destiny of a hundred · million peopl~.

He has been firm with the firmness that proceeds froDL deep com·ictiou, with the fu:mness that 'is grounded in a tlnty well defined ..

Il c has be-en courageou with the courage that \)laces ·cop.ntry above ~ self, with the courage that -follows duty wherever It may lead.

He ·has beeu dignified with . the .dignity that is self-forgetting arid , elf-rPspecting, ·with the .dignity that conserves the majesty of the gi<>a t est · office in the world. · ·

llC! lias been patient with the patience whiCh eelteves illld trusts that " truth cru.shet1 to earth will Tl .e :a.gain;" with the paiience that ;can endure and wait. watch and p-ray, for the certain 'Vlndication ··of jnstiee, huma"Dity, and right. · . .

II ha · beeu patriotic with a _pah·iot1sin that 'has .never wavered,' a pntriotism th!lt is as pure anil strong us the ·faith .that mtJved the fatlwrs when they made our country free.

·o President since the Civil War ha.s hail as crucial problems to solve, and no President ha displayed a :grasp more sur.e, n statesmri~- 1 shiP more profound. . . .

·.A ssailed by the \VOl'l'c-S of privilege, he 1las ·pulled their claws and dl'a wn their teeth. . ,

Assaulted by partisan envy ~he has shamed ..his h'ailucers into silence and made friend and ·foe go fo:tward :together in the p:rths of 'IUl.tioha.l l'':'<l;.."Tes • · " lie has -tired our .patriotism with a new ardor; he has breathed into .ur ancient traditions a new vigor and a new life. .

He has auded strength to America's courage and mingleu me1'cy with America's strength.

lie has fastened the llra.kes of justice rupon 'the wheels of pow~ ; -he h as lifted the mists from the temple where ou.r .liberties are ·enshrtned.

!'resident and President to be, when the history JJf these days comes to lle written antl the children of to-morrow read 'their Nation's story, whE:-n time shall have dispelled--all misconception and :the years ·shall have rendered their impartial ' verdict. one ·name will shine in golden splendor upon the page that .is blackened with the tale of Europe's war, one llilme will represent the ltriumph of American principles over ·the .hosts of darkness an.d of death.

That name will be the name of the Gr<>at .President who has made Democracy proud that he is a Democrat and made Ailiericans proud that he is an .American. ·

It will be the name of the student and the scholar .who has kept his country true to ·us faith in a time "tha.t ·tried men's souls ; ·the name of the statesman who has championed the cause of American freedom wherever he found it o_ppressPd : the name of ·the patriot who has· implanted his country's flag on the ·highest peak to which hn.mnnity ha-s yet aspired ; the name that carried the torch of progrPss to victory onee and will carq• it to victory again ; the name oi Woodrow :wilson, ;president and President to be. · ·

Mr. President, that was the battle cry of the campaign. It l.eft the question open if our rights were attacked that"we could defend them, but if peace can bless a party and if-utterance can bind men, thqt bound us to sustain ·the doctrine of ·washington, the traditional doctrine of our country, ·to IQaintain the dignity of om· own land, to 'keep free from entanglem~nts with ·Europe, to keep free .from the European war unless we were assailed, and then to defend our own rights and seek nothing ·further than the defense of our rights. It gives J:he repudiation, I had almost said the lie, to every ·argument l nave hear-d in ·fa.vo.r of the league of nations. 1

::\fr. President, it is impossible f or me to finisb my rema1'ks 1

to-night. I wish to ask the Senator from Massachusetts [Mr.

S1Lu:n DOLI,A.n. Is WORTII MORE ' Tlll.N $1 NOW-RISE I~ PlUCE OF METAL GIVES UNITED STATES COIN HIGHE:U VALUE AS .J~ULLION '!'HAN ITS FACE VALUE AS MONEY.

"For the first time in 35 years .the metal :in the American. silver dollar is worth more than the face value of 'the coin.

"Sales of the metal were made in the New 'York market yeste:rday at $1.30~ an ounce. The gold 'Parity of the ·silver dollar :is .$1.2929; that is, when silver metal sells at that vrice the

ilver ,in the dollar is worth a dollar. " With silve1· selling around the high price establislled ye ·

terday, it will be profitable to melt down dollars and sell them as bullion. Bullion dealers estimated the melting cost at about half a cent an ounce. ' Goula.shing ' of dollars, as the Jmllion trade calls melting them down, is not likely to .become t;nucb of a practice, however, because of the limited number of dollars in circulation. Upward ·of $200,000,000 woTth of silver ·dollars were melted down and sold as bullion under the proviSions ·Of the wai~time Pittman '.Act. Much of that silver went to India t~'. pay for war purChases.

PRIOE RtSINO Sn<CE WAR STARTED.

"Silver, like most ·other commodities, has been ~ieadily rising in 'Price since the 'War ·began, and the movement hrts been accelerated since the ·signing of =the armistice by reason of tire ·heavy world demand 'for the metal for ·coinage. ·with the withdrawal ·. of .gold from circulation in ·various parts of the world, as a ·result of ·the war, silver has come into greater use, particularly .in Europe, where dt has temporarily taken the :place ·of gold as hard money.

"Since last May, when the United States lifted the elubar~o ·upon exports of silver from the country, China bas come into this market as a heavy purchaser, and recently sales for ·shipment to .the Far East have been 1~nning at the rate of 7,000,000 to 10,000,000 ounces a month. In August exports to China reached the larger figure, and in September they exceeded ·7·,000,000 ounces. China is bidding against the world 'fo1· -silver :.at ;present, and is willing to pay a higher price than Eng1and. 'That is the pl:inctpal ·factor in the market at the moment, and 'the demand from that quarter is expected to continue heavy for :Some time. ·

HIGHEST PRICE SINCE 1.859.

"Meanwhile the London price has steadily mounted. Yesterday the official guotation there was 68i pence per ounce, the equivalent of $1.27 "in 'this market. This is the highest London ·quotation since 1859, when silver rose in spectacular 'fashion following the Crimean War and the Indian mutiny.

"The available supply of silver in the London market is said to 1be the lowest in years. London normally carries between ·8,000,000 and 10,000,000 ounces on hand. Owing to the diversion of shipments to China in recent months and the holding up 6f ;trans-Atlantic shipments by reason of the longshoremen's strike rJJ,ere, the London supply has dwindled to les than a million ounces. At the present quotation for silver in London, the English shilling can be melted down profitably for its bullion -vah1c. The British h ·easury last '"eek placed an embargo upon the

1919. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-· SENATE. 8293 export of silver to protect its silver .. currenef, and the French Oovernment has done likewise. ~ .

" ·The ·sensational rise in silver has carried the value · of· the lowly Mexican dollar or peso to 99 cents, which was the market quotation yesterday. The face value of the coin is just under 50 cents, but high silver has made it worth nearly twice as much for its . ·ilver content."

TRK\TY OF PEACE WI'IH GERMANY.

The • 'tmat.c, a · in Committee of the 'Vhole and in open executive session, re. umed the consideration of the treaty of peace with Germany.

Mr. ROBINSON. Mr. President, the Senator from Missouri [1\Ir. HEED] has just suspended a very brilliant speech set through011t with gems of invective, satire, and irony. In a forum of this character that method of argument is not appealing anll should not be effective. The gist and substance of the argument of the Senator from Missouri is that, notwithstanding the incidents which attended our entry into the war, our sacrifices in the war, our association with our allies in a struggle to save civilization, now that the war has successfully terminated it is our duty to absolve this Government from any attempt to prevent the recurrence of such a war as that which has just ended.

The Senator from Missouri uuring the course of his remarks has made some statements which I feel it my duty in fairness to my colleagues, and particularly in justice to the Senator from Nebraska [Mr. HITCHCOCK], to controvert. .All Senators will recall that the Senator from Missouri ridicule(] the address made on yesterday .by the · Senator from Nebraska and declared that Senator had asserted that the obligation of the United States to protect the feeble nations of Europe which had obtained their freedom um·ing the war arises because of a ueclaration to that effect by 1\Ir. Root and, perhaps, by Mr. Hug}les. The Senator from Missouri declared that the Senator n·om Nebraska repeated that assertion four times in his address of yesterday.

:Mr. President, I heard every word of the very able speech made by the Senator from Nebraska, and I have taken the trouble to read it since the Senator from Missouri made that statement. I challenge the accuracy of his statement. I can not comprehend how any Senator with the intelligence which I h-now the Senator from Missouri posse..:ses could have made· the statement in view of the actual declaration made by the Senator from Nebraskn; but the ~enator f1·om Missouri did make that statement.

Mr. REED. l\lr. President--:\Ir. ROBINSOX In order that there may be no misunder

standing as to the inaccm·acy of the statement made bv the Senator from l\lissouri ju his bitter critici m of his colleague. the Senator from Nebraska, I am going to read what the Senator from Nebraska did say, and then leave it to fair-minded persons to determine w.hether the criticism which the Senator from Missouri so sarcastically heaped upon him is justifieu in this presence. The Senator from Nebraska was answering questions by the Senator from Pennsl'lvania [1\lr. PE "ROSE], who said:·

I was a tounded to .hear from so able a Senator as the representative of the minority in this contest the statement that we had assumed an obligation. How have we assumed it? Who committed us? By what authority'?

Mr. HITCIICOCK. I think the Senator hi~ elf, for OD('. Mr. PE:SROSE. In what way? Mr. HITCHCOCK. By \Oting for the A.t·my hill, for instance, in which

we organized the Slavic legion, in which we invited the Slavs of the United 'tates to \Oiunteer, although they were technically citizens of Austria, to ser\e in our .Army and go across the ocean and fight against the nation to which they owed allegiance, in the hope that .th('y would assist us in defeating Austria. We> assumed that obligation when we encouraged the Poles to throw oti their allegiance. We as umed that obligation when we encouraged the Bohemians, techuical1y known as Jugo-Slavs, to throw olf their allegiance to Austria.

This Nation went as far as it could in inviting those subj~>ct peoples to rebel, and why'! Because in speeches here upon the fioor of the Senate and upon the fioor of the House of Representathes and eJsewhc>re in the country representative citizens proclaimed that it' the Uniteu States aD(] her associates were succes ful in the war the olu nation of Poland should be revived, and Bohemia should become a nation in the worlc.l, and the Jugo-Siavs should be permitted to organize tl1eir uatlon. We were committed morally to those subject peoples. We encouraged them to struggle, and we practically guaranteeu th~>m that we and our associate nations would stand by them in guaranteeing their independen ce.

Tllat is the . tatemeut which the Senator from Nebraska made on yesterday as to our obligation already assumed. It was based upon the events of history ; it was justified by the course of events, which no individual, whether he be President or a ::.\lember of the Senate or a private citizen, could stay. · The reference to Mr. Hughes and Mr. Root which the Senator

fl'om Nebraska made was in the following language: :llany public men, notably former Senator Root, aml, I believe, also

Mt·. Hughes, have taken the position that at least for fi>c years we ought to stand by ihc mo~al obligations we a~sumed. "

. The Senator from Nebraska did not say that this declaratiou which I llave just quoted from these gentlemen constituted an obligation. Be merely stated that these great American citizens had recognized the obligation.

Further on in h1s address the Seuator from Nebraska made another reference to former Senator Root. . He was asked ::t· question concerning our dUty to Korea and whether . we had violated 0111' treaty with the Korean people, and he replied a follows: · I think under the treaty of 1848 we were bound to Korea, but when Korea appealed to us under that treaty we repudiatc>d it. That, however, is no reason why we should repudiate the moral obligation we have undertaken to the little nations of Europe. Think of the effect in those countrtes of the announcement that the United States assumes no obligation for their protection ! Ex-Senator Root said we should assume that obligation for at least five years.

Mr. President, with respect to the correctness of the attitude of the Senator from Nebraska when he declared that by reason of having org_anized these nations and encouraged them to struggle fo\' their inuependence, by reason of having made their cause ovr cause, and having assisted them in achieving their independence we owe them the obligation not to leave them at the mercy of their former enemies-if that is contrary to the doctrines and precedents which the Senator from Missouri would cite, very well and good, but it is justified by a higher authority in this Chamber. If the Senator from Nebraska had desired to restate an argument made by a great Senator in his presence on December 21, 1918, he could have hardly done so more effectively than was accomplished in the language that he used. The leader of the majority, the Senator from Massachusetts [Mr. LoDGE], on yesterday declared that the pul'posc C!f the pending re. erv-ation is to nullify article 10. .He said:

I think the people of the country understand very well what this 1·eservation mc>ans, that it disposes of article 10 so far as we nrc concerned, and effectively disposes of it.

:Mr. President, I have proceeded in all I have tried to do on the simple theory of clearing the United States, so far as possible, from obligations imposeu by the league in which I do not wish to see th~ United States involved. Every country can take care of itself, and I

. have never thought it was our duty to look after them.

If that statement stood ·alone, Mr. President, I could not consistently quote the Senator from Massachusetts as advocating the position taken by the Senator from Nebraska ·during yesterday's uebate; but I recur now to a great speech made by the Senator from ·Massachusetts, delivered in the Senate on Saturday, December 21, 1918, a carefully prepared address. In that speech, notwithstanding the Senator from Missouri has so forcefully and repeatedly ridiculed the declaration that the United States went to war to save civilization, the Senator from Massachusetts made that identical declaration. The Senator ft·om Massachusetts then said:

We went to war to save civilization. For this mighty purpo ~e we have sacrificed thoul'lands of American Jives and spent billions of American trc>asure. We can not, therefo1·e, leave the work half donE'. We are .as mu<>h bound, not merely by interest and every consideration for a safe future but by honor and sell-respect, to see that the terms of peace are carried out as we were to fulfill our grE>at dc>termination that the armies of Germany Rhould be defeated in the field. We can not halt or turn back now. We mul:lt do our share to carry out the peace as we have done our share to win the war, of which the peace is an int('gral part. We must do our share in the occupation of German territory which \vill be held as security for the indemnities to be paid by Germany. We can not escape doing OUI' ·part in aiding the peoples to whom we have helped to give freedom and independ~>nce in establishing thPmselves with ordered go\ernments, for in no other way can we er~>ct the barriers which are essential to prevent another outbreak by Germany upon the world. We can not leave the Jugo-Slavs, the Czecho-Slovaks, and the Poles, the Lithmmians, and the other States which we hope to s~>e formed and marching upon the path of progress and de\elopment unaided and alone, · Mr. President, that is the statement maue in December of

1918 by the Senator from Massachusetts. On yesterday, however, with a peculiar emphasis, he declared that he had never had any purpose such as expressed in his speech that I have just read. He. declared that he hac.l never had any thought

·that it was our duty to look after these feeble nations; but, in language which burns itself into the brain, in thP. speech that I have quoted from, delivered in December, 1918, the Senator from Massachusetts made in substance the identical argument which was made on yesterday by the Senator from Nebraska.

The Senator from Missouri, during the course of his t·emarks, ueclared that if anything emanated from the White House, and if any Senator suggested oppositon to it, some Senators-making a broad wa ~e of his hand toward this side of the Chamber-immediateiy proclaimed the oppo. ition pro-Germanism. I have quoted his language almost exactly. Mr. President, if I were disposed to reply in kind to the Senator from Missouri, I might say that when anything emanates from the White House, some Senators immediately take the rabies and throw n fit; but that character of argument, l\lr. President, is not justified here. -

8294 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. N OYEl\IBER '11,

Tl1e Pt·esiclent of the. United Stntes has had the greatest re 1 onsibllity during the lllSt few years that ever fell nporr the ·houlders of any mortal being. He has discharged the ftmctions of his office, according to my honest conviction1 fearles.·ly and with due regard to the rights of om· citizens and of all mankind. He negotiated a treaty of peace as the repre-entative of this Government. It is not generous, -it is not

k:iml-to- use the language of the Senator from Missouri, so often repeated by him in the course of these debates-for• my friend the Senator from Missouri to· declare that in undertaking to ratify this treaty, which we believe representattf"e of the best that could be obtained in the conference, which we belie\e is calculated to safeguard the interest of the w.orld. and the inteeests of the United States-it is not fair to declnre, as the Senator from Missouri did declare during his ad<lre ·s, that we disregard the Constitution and the laws of our country.

Tile Senator from l\lissouri has consumed more than an hom· of the time of the Senate this evening in reading an address delivered before the Democratfc National Convention in June, 1916. The a(ldress is an excellent one. It: is true that the addre was well recei\'ed by the people of the United States. It proclaimed un obligation upon the United States to continue the practice of neutrality. . .

Did the Senator from Missouri, ·when he refers to his colleagues on this side- of the Chamber as having " shouted until w almost bm·st Olll" blood vessels" at the delivery of that ad

. llr . Sy protest against it? Did: he approve it? ::\'h·. REED. .Certainly I approved it. Mr. ROB! rsoN. Tile Senator says, "Certainly I approYed

it." Then why does lle condemn his collearrue for approving it?

Mr. REED. 1\fr. President, if the Senator alldre e that int rrogation to me, I do not condemn them.

l\Ir. ROBINSON. Mr. Presiuent,. if the Senator will permit me, I hould like to go on.

l\Ir. REED. Oh, proceed. 1\Ir. ROBIN ON. I think I can state the reason. :iYI.r. REED. Proceed. ?!It'. ROBINSON. The whole course of the Senntor's argu

ment was to the effect that the doctrine of neutrality was the right uocuine, and that the· United State· ought to have stayed out of the wu.r.

Mi·. REED. Oh, no; I llitinot ay that. The Senator can not mak me say t.h.at.

l\fr. ROBINSON_ I ilid not say the Senator said it. I aid tl.J.at was the whole course- and effect of his argument.

:Hr. REED. Mr. President, will the Senator permit m to int('rrupt him? The Senator doe not want to put me in a WT ncr position, I know.

:lir. ROBINSON.- No. The PRE. IDE~ T pro tempore. Does th enator from

Arkan ;as yield' to the Senator from Missouri? 1\Ir. ROBINSON. I yield to the Senator; certainly. l\Ir. REED. The ·senator does not want to put me in any

wrong position before _the country. The text of my speech will go jnto the REconn without any correction f·rom me.

:\lr. ROBll'fSON. I know so. ~re: REED: And the Senator will find, if her ads it, that I

repeatedl sai<l that. tThe cause afterwards came,. in substance and effe-ct. l\Iy address was leading up to that cause, and it will be fully cove.rea to-morrow. Now, all I am particular about is that the Senator shall not put me before the country as saying that we hould not have- gone into this war, for r Yoted for this w::n: and I SUlJr>orteu it.

Tftat is all I wish to say. · Mr. ROBINSON. Mr. Pre ident, the statement which the

Senator now makes i ~ not in line with the statement which he nmtle during the-course of his remarks.

1\fr REED'. Well, the llECOllD will show. .k ROBINSON. I can show the Senator him elf, if he will

just give-me·an opportunity. 1\h-. REED. Go- altead. ~Ir. ROBINSON. -The Senator may regard himself as in-·

capable of committing e.n·or·; he may think that his colleagu-es are always mistaken lieu they dlfEer from him; but, as r have the ftoor now, I am certainly entitled to the-privilege of showing mat Ile is wrong, if I can show it. .

The Senator read inciden1l afte-r incident in whi~h Germany tre~ pussed upon. the riglits of civilization and upon the rights of eitizens of the Uhited States. In language whicli burn.ed itsel-f into. the memor;F o:f e\Cery man, woman, and child in this as mbly,. tlle Senator from · Missouri described the Lusitmbia inc.Jtlent. He tofd· ef fat:Ilers- and mothers; many of them American citizen , on that great vessel, and of tile secret blow which

· the German ·submarine struck again t tllat ye el and sent it to the bottom. He pictm·ed the mi err nnd the de olation that resulted from that act, and he said that if en~r we were going to war w.e ought to have g<>ne to war then. That -tatement was

' repeated in connection with many other incident . He decla.l·ed, Mr. President, that former President noosevelt had said that we ought to abandon a position of neutrality; that while he did not agree with him, he as erted that the only justification of om· entering the war was a subsequent nolation of our rights; but, Mr. President, the whole course of his argument was to the effect that from the beginning of the war Germany had been disregarding our rights, and that we

.ought to have entered the war, if we were going to, soonel' than we did enter it, in the interest of civilization.

Does the Senator from :Missouri now· believe that the sole moti\e for which the United States entered the war was to avenge some illegal act of the German G<>vernment against thi

' Government or its cftizens? Does the Senator from 'Missouri insist that the only jtiStifi.cation for our entering the war was the unlawful acts of Germany against this Government? If he does, he contradicts the speech made by the Senator from 1\Ia~ sachusetts, one of the very best speeches that very able Senator has ev-er made. If he insists that the only motive that inspired this Nation in going · to war was to avenge illegal acts committed against our Gov.ernment or its citizens by Germany after the events whieh he o eloquently described, then, Mr. Presi-dent, I want him to say what the acts were. '

Mr. REED. Mr. President--The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Does the enator from

Arkansas yield to the Senator f-rom Mi souri? l\Ir. ROBINSON. I yield. Mr. REED. I take it the enutor meant o be interrupt d

when he asked that question. Mr. ROBINSON. I am glad to yield to tlle Senator. Mr. REED. Very briefly, allow me to state-and the REc

ORD will show that what I say is correct-that I continually repeated that if the cause for our entering the war wa that we were going in to save the world that cause existed long before we went into the war; and I related these incidents.

llli·. ROBINSON. Now. will the Sem.tor nermit me right there? If the Senator is saying now that tl.J.e real and only cau e of our entering the war was the transgresSion of American rights by Germany, I reply to him, in his languug , tnat those causes. existed long before we entered the war.

Mr. REED. That was the statement I made, as I was leading up to what I intend to . ay to-morrow, that the additional cause came. Now, I am perfectly frank with the Senator when I say that I have not any doubt that all these atrocitie and wrongs which had been lieaped upon America before had their cumulative effect, but that when we did go into the war we went into the war because· of the act of . Germany in renewing h r submarine warfare., and in sinking American ves els. That is the line of argument; and the Senator is not quoting me correctly when he state ·, as I think lle did state, that I argued that these ca-uses for war existed before. I said that if we were going in to ·a-\-e the world, those thing were apparent to· all. My argument is that we finally, after having stood them, reached the point where Germany broke faith with us. repudiated an agreement she had made with us, decla.rell she was

· going to embark upon unrestricted submarine war.fare, and practically warned us off the sen.s. Even then, we did not go ta war. \Ve waited until GeTmany ank. three of our ve ls, an.d.1 then we declared that a state of wur exi ted.

That is the statement I made. Mr~ ROBINSON. MI:. President, it is undoubt <lly true, as

stated, that the United Stutes made a very great effort to avoid · being drawn into. this war. It is undoubtedly true that tile President' and eve.cy other office1~ of the Government who really re{)resented it in an executiv-e- capacity did everything in their power to prevent goiil.g. to war, and I belieYe that course wa · justified- 'Ve can not always anticipate even . The Go\ernment wus compelled" to act upon incidents a they w re then known, and I think the United States- acted wisely in. staying out of the war as long aS" it did. But I declared., Mr. Pre ident, that from the beginning of the outbreak of the war in Europe Germany was constantly and deliberately transgre sing American rights, ll.l1(}j we had a right to treat any of. those acts as acts of war, and go to war- witll her. The · enato:c fr'()m. Missouri nods hi'5 head~ and he u-grees. Therefore we ha.ve reached an agreement that. the- course which Germany ha-d. pursued a.,on.inst the United States would have justified. thi Go:vernment in entering the war sooner thn::n she· did enter it. nut, M1:. President, in Yiew of the great sacrifiees . which. must. llnvc been. antieiIJated, the Government was j:u tified in eeldng to avoid becom;.

· ing a party to the war, and we did' n{)t enter the war until tile-

1919 . . CONGRESSiffi .A.L RECORD-SENATE.

President and the Congress became satisfied that there was -no attack of out£ddc forc€s against the t erritorial integrity or honorable way to avoid it. Germany had not only strewn i:he political independence of a nation. wreckage of very many American vessels on the surface of the AI1iele 10 bans or outlaws conquest. If the nations are no-t sea; she 11ad delib<>rately taken the live· of many noncombat- 1 willing to forego ronque t, if they are unwilling to bind themants, including something like 215 citizens of the United selves to restrain ambitious members from aggression, then the States; but the argument which the Senator from 'Missouri · world had just as well never hope for permanent peace. Article made in ridiculing his colleagues in this Chamber 'becau e they 10, without reservation, will prove a powerful d.eteJ:IIlent to

·approved in the beginning of an effort to preserve the neutrality nations disposed to engage ·in wars of conquest. of this Government in spite of German outrages on civilization While 1:he CO\"enant contains four other Jmportant l}rovisions fulls when he admits that from the beginning the Government which will discourage the resort to foree in the settlement of -was justified, by the acts of Germany against her, in entcl'ing international ~disputes, the obligation which -oll members of the tbe war. league assume under nrticle J.O to both respect -and preserve as

l\Ir. OWEN. l\Ir. President-- ngainst external aggression the terrltoTiaJ integrity and politi-The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Does the Senator from A:P- cal independence of aU States members of the league -combines

kansas yield to the Senator from Oklahoma? the mornl and physical influences of all the other member~ of 1\:lr. ROBINSON. I yield to the Senf!.tOr from Oklahoma. ·the league a~ainst any nation which may be Inclined to trespass l\Ir. O"WEN. I wanted to remind the Senator from Arkansas upon the territory or to t·estrict the politi'Cal independence of

i.hat there '\\ere some other very important developments justi- ' any other member. The league agreement Telative to disarmafying the war, among them the <liscovery that Germany was ment, if executed in good faith, will diminiRh the likelihood carrying on a world-wide propaganda intending to break down and minimiz-e the destructiveness of wars. If the size of armies Governments everywhere in the world and to conquer the world ar!d navies be limited as provided by the treaty-that is, so as to by militai'Y force, and we detected her jn the act of embroiling be sufficient merely for protective purposes "and 'ID carry out this couniTY with Mexico and Japan. the olJligations of the treaty-thE' world wilt thereby be relieved

Ur. ROBINSON. That is the reason why the Senator from of enormous tax burdens, and permanent peace will be made 1\Ia~ sachusetts [l\Ir. LonGE] in Dceemher, 1918. and the Senator probable. In addition to the reduction of armaments, the resort from Nebraska [Mr. RrTcncoCK] on yesterday declared in to arbitration of all justiciable questions and to investigation effect that the United States '\\ent to war to save civilization. and recommendation for settlem~nt of ail other international D oes any Senator 'here doubt that if the United States had disputes likely · to result in war will leave very few subjects of continued to the end to pursue a 110licy of neutrality eitiliz::ttion international ontroversy unadjusted und to be tlewmined by would have been de troyed and Germany woul<l have O'V-('l'rtm force. i.he world? In adtli tion to ihe limitation o.n a1•mnmerrts and the proceed·

The Senator f rom l\1issouri [1\Ir. REED] -paints a glowing pic- ings for arbih·ation and settlement of int-ernational disputes, tnre of the courage., the das"'l, the enthu ·iasm, the heroism, of th P- commercial boycott authorized by the tre3tY., ·by means of the American soldiers and of i:he soldier. of France in lJattle. which a nation refusing to n.rbitrate justiciable questions or Ah, l\Ir. Presillent, under the crosses on Flanders fields there to submit to investigation other internatio:nal disputes before sleep thou ands of American boys w110 fell in lJattle. Let me ret~orting to war will be denied commercial intercourse and ask the Senator from :\fissouri now if it is hiR -po ition that financial r elation hi'p with every other mimJber of the league, this war . hould end, that we should break our relations with of itself will be sufficient to 1·e~train impulgive and nnnecesour allies, and that all the nations hould go their eparate sa ry a t tacks by one member nation upon .another. Article 10 ways and leave no organization for the prevention of inter- is U1e most vital and effective of all the means provided in the national wars in the yem·s to come? league covenant for the preservation of world peace.

Is the Senator from 1\Iis ourl snti fieu, after the beautiful Thir; article is not objectionable to me because tt may enalJle pictuTe of courage .and sacrifice hD painted this afternoon, to the Commander in Chief of our Army and .Navy to employ rnilisay that all that courage and all that sacrifice . hall count for ta.ry m· naval force in executing Us obligations. nor is it objec· naught? With the blood in t11e trenches -scarcely yet dry, the tionable because it may impo e an obligation upon this Governdead sleeping on the field of battle, and the wounded coming meut to refrain from war or, under _p.ossible clrcnmstn.ncest to back horne to Tesume their status ·as citizen .. , can we not hope -engage in it. that the Senate of the United States will try to do something While I respect the Congress as one of the three indispensable toward preserving the peace of the \Yorld in the future? and coordinate branches of our Government, its deliberations

He has ridiculed and denounced the league of nations as im- and enactments are not characterized 'by such preeminent wisdom practicable and useless for the purpose of preventing war. What and patriotism as to justify the. mistrust of the Executive which plan .does the Senator propose? Mr. President, he can · not · runs through every line of the reservations and particularly answer that question with mere general objections to the plan through article 10. If we could forget aU .political rivalries and which we have worked out. The only plan seriously 1JToposed personal animosities, we would IJf'rhaps be willing to leave is the league of nations plan. The hope of the world is fixed article 10 a it is and to trust to the Executive the fair execution on it. of his duties under the treaty and unrler uur Constitution.

It is true that the debates during the last 24 hours have dls- The reservation is a C()JJ]plete nul1ificati{)n of article 10, in closed a deliberate 1mrpose to withdraw the support of the so far as the United States is concerned. That is the avowed Government of the United States from the new nations which purpo e of the ll.dvoeat-es· of the reservation. achieved their liberty as a result of the-war ancl to leave them All Senators 1.·ccognize that a treaty ean not deprive Congress to their fate. But, 1\lr. President, are we to take the view of of its constitutiona-l power to declure war. Nevertheless, by this matter which is urged by the -senator from Missouri? tTeaty the United States can contract to engage in war or to Are we to accept llis declaration that article 10 will involve refrain from it, and while Congress can not -be compelled to make this Nation in 11nmerous controversies and quarrels. and for that a declaration of war~ there is no ground, if we are in earnest in reason we must wash .our hands of the whole affair and with- seeking to prevent war. which will justify the Congress in draw ourselves to a state of i.so1ation? Let the speech of the denying the obligation to restrain or prevent conquest by-otller Senator from Massachusetts answer him. Let the hope of all nations save in Jlarticular cases where ·Congress llas cxpn'. sly mn.nlrind answer him. declared war.

Mr. President, article 10 is the most vital and important part It seems to me cowardly to insist upon tbe.creation of a league of tbis treucy. The pending reservation is intended to modify it. of nations and upon the United States becoming a party to it,

I make no apology f.or it, bUt sincerely advocate it as the one and at the same time to make such reservations as to our duties provision which, more than any other in the treaty, is calcu- and obligations as will disclose to the world a suspicion of other lated to prevent international wars. nations and ·a determination to p1·eserve the United .States in

It doE'S not seem to my mind to be ubject to i.hc objections a condition of isolation. and critici-sms urged against it in the Senate. . Mr. President, any great delJater like the .senato1· from :Jlis-

Article 10 in .no sense impairs the right of 1·evoJution or 1n- ' souri ca,n, of course, in the exercise of his. imagination, point .sm·rection. It is directed agajnst external aggression, and that out defeets in this treaty and defects in :the league of nations. can never be .held te mean anythlng else than the upplication It was not to be expected that an . organization perfect ln every of force from the o11tside. By no expansion ·of recognized rules feature wouJd be instantly conceived-Or-effected. But. Mr. Presl· .of construction can the prevention of eXternal aggression be dent. I rest the case here: The world is weary of the extrava· deemed to deny the l~ights of l"ebellion or revolution. Rebellio.n, gam~c. the mis:ery, the ruin, and tbe desolation of war. Great 1·evolt, and _revol11tion arc the application of f.oree against ·n nations -Of this earth, w.ho ar·e "the guardian:s. nf its civilbr.atiori1

go\'ernment by those wbo owe it .allegiance or obedience. Ex- ' ought to do sOinething to -prevent .the 1·ecurrence of a confUct t(.'rnal aggression, in article 1Qt therefore, clearly means the · like that t1:u·o11gh which we have j\lst pa!=!sed. If we -fan to do

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8296 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- SEN1\.TE. N OVEJ\IBER 11'

l·t, t lte ,,.a1· ,,.1·11 11 •. n.·.et· ll'~~- for 1·tself. You can only compensate league; but mnndatories should be provid.ed f9r J hc bac~ward J.leoplt>s, ._ ., ·'J the council to issue to each a charter of liberties and marntain m each the mothers of America for the sacrifices which they have under- nn administrative court to as r.crtain if fr eedom is !Jcing maintained. gone, you can only compensate the gallant men who in o~r uni- The provision for free peoples is expressly contracted for by form advanced in the face of danger and death and expenenced the allied States and the United States in their a O'reement with jnjuries, you can only compensate the~ for their sa~rifice a~d suf- Germany for a world settlement based on justice and to result fering on foreign battle fields by usmg your bram to bmld up in permanent peace. some instrumentality which, with the blessing of Almighty God The sanctity of contractual obligations of nations is being and the prayers of all Christian peoples, may save the world in insisted upon for the entire world, and surely the contractual the future from what it has recently and bitterly experienced. obligation of the United States and the allied States for free-

1\Ir. LODGE. Mr. President, before I make the motion for a dom for subject" States is not to be repudiated. And this in rece ~ which I am about to make, I may say just a word, as connection with the war in which Germany is being execrated the S~ator from Arkansas [Mr. RoBINSON] was kind enough to for not heeding her contractual obligations. I the written refer to a speech I made in December, 1918, and he referred to contract of the United States and· of the .Allie for world libera-it ap11rovingly. tion a scrap of paper?

The view that I held then I think was a perfectly sound It is a scrap of paper at the present moment, a · we herein view. I think it was our duty to help establish certain States demonstrate, clue to reactionism within the allied coalition which would be barriers against Germany, and to help those Governments. States to make that start. ·I have not changed my opinion. The issue is up to you, Senators, a.nu here in brief are the But when I held that opinion, I neYer for a moment contem- facts: plated that we were to be handed out a document which bound I. The contract to1· Zibe1·atioa of subject States. u for all time, without any possible limitation anywhere. . In a written statement dated November 5, 1918, the allied

The Senator from Arkansas seemed to me to draw no diS- Governments, in a communication to Secretary Lansing which tinction between time and eternity. Perhaps there is none; he issued to the world the next day, said: but it is usually thought there is. I was speaking for time. "The allied Governments have given careful consideration to Al. ·o, 1\Ir. President, this has happened: While we have been the correspondence which has passed between the President of establishing and helping new Governments, by our meddling the United States and the German Government. Subject to the we have depriyed Poland of her issue to the sea. One of the qualifications which follow, they declare their willingness to things Poland wanted most, of course, was Danzig, at the mouth make peace with t.he Government of Germany on the terms of of th valley of the Vistula. We have taken it from her. peace laid down in the President's address to Congress in Janu-

-n·e declined to let France have the left bank of the Rhine, ary, 1918, and the principles of settlement enunciated in hi and that is why we have a treaty of alliance pending here now. subsequent addres~e . They must point out, however, that we woulU not allow. France to take measures to defend herself clause 2, relating to what is usually described as the freedom again ·t Germany. w·c put our. clum~y hand. into Italy nnll of the seas, is open to various interpretations, some of which brought on, by doing so, all the difficulties of Fmme. they could not accept. They must, therefore, resen·e to them-

Our last performance is to take Thrace from the Greek • to • selves complete freedom on this subject when they enter the " ·hom it pr01)erly belongs. The sooner a co~try that so m~n- peace conference. ages other people's affairs gets out of the busmess of meddllng "Further, in the conditions of peace laid down in his address \Yith other nations the better for the world. to Congress on January 8, 1918, the President declared that in-

Mr. REED. l\fr. President-- . . . vaded territories must be restored as well as evacuated and Mr. LODGE. I yield to the Senator from M1s oun to g1ve freed and the allied Governments feel that no doubt ought to

a notice. be allowed to exist as to what this provision implies. By it Mr. REED. I simply want to state that to-morrow I shall they understand that compensation will be made by Germany

take very great pleasure in replying ~o the ~ttack of ~e Senator for all damage clone to the civilian population of the Allies from Arkansas [1\1r. RoBINSON] and m c.allmg attention to some and their property by the aggression of Germany by land, by mi takes he made, because they were mlStakes. sea and from the air."

l\1r. O"WEN. Before the Senator from Massachusetts ma}res a This is the official statement of the allied GoYernments, and motion to rece. s, I should like to have permission to insert m the Secretary of State Lansing said : RECORD a certain matter. " I am instructed by the President to say that he is in agree-

l\ir. LODGE. I have no objection to that; but I do not want to ment with the interpretation set forth in the 1ast paragraph of han~ any mor debate at this time. . the memorandum above quoted."

l\Ir. OWEN. I ask unanimous consent to have inserted m the Then Secretary Lansing said to the Swiss Mini ter in charge R:~<.:cOim copies of two resolutions bearing upon the matter un<;Ier of German interests in the United States : cliscnssion, and a petition from the League for World Federation "I am further instructed by the President to request you to bearin o- on t.be same subject. notify the German Government that Marshal Foch has been

The ""'pRESIDENT pro tempore. Witllout objection, the re- authorized by the Government of the United States and the qn . t of the enator from Oklahoma will be granted. . Allied Governments to receive properly accredited representa-

1\lr. FALl-. I should like to know what it is the Senator IS tives of the German Government, and to communicate to them offerinc:. the terms of the armistice."

l\Ir. b'VEX. Two resolution· 'Yllich I introdu~ed just a~ter The German Government appointed its representatives, who the ,.,-ar stating wllat the causes of the war were m my opimon. met Marshal Foell and accepted the terms, which included the It bears' directly upon the discussion which has taken place here above-quoted statement as to the basis for terms of peace-" the to-day. . terms of peace laid down in the President's address to Cong~·es

l\lr. FALL. I suppos~ the purpo e is to. ha.ve them pnnted in January, 1918, and the ~rin~ples of settl~ment enunciated and circulated as pamphlet . I have no obJection. in his subsequent addresses ·• With two exceptions, the freedom .. Mr. OWEN. Not at all . I will confine myself to sending a of the seas and the amount of the reparations. copy -to the Senator from New Mexico. These principles of settlement, expressly contracted for, in-

1\lr. FALL. It will be very informing to me, as I listened to elude the freeing of subject States, as the following quotations the Senator elucidating the reasons which he advanced, and I Q.emonstrate: haYc followed him with great interest in his entire course. II. Principles of 1co1·za settle11"ent--the President's declarations.

Tbc PRESIDENT pro tempore. Does the Senator -from New In the President's address on January 8, 1918, in which he l\Iexico object? 1 h · f u Mr. FALL. I do not. enumerated the 14 points, the c osing paragrap lS as o ows:

Tile PRESIDENT pro tempore. The request of the Senator "We have spoken now, surely, in terms too concrete to admit from Oklahoma is granted. of any fm•ther doubt or question. An evident principle runs

throuO'h the whole program I have outlined. It is the principle The matter referred to is as follows : of ju;tice to all peoples and nationalities, and their 1ight to

rETITTO:-f TH.1T THE INTERNATIONAL CO NTRACT FOR LIBltRA:riO:-< OF SUB- liVe On equal t ermS Of liberty and Safety With one another, JDCT STATES SHALL BE FULFILLED. d whether they be strong or weak. Unless this principle be rna e

To the Senate of the Unitea States : The League for W01:ld Federation, established August, 1914,

respectfully petitions tlie United Satte to place among its reseryations to the proposed covenant of the league of nations that

The international contract of November 5, 1918, whereby the World War was ended, provides that thP. league of nnti~ns shall be. composed of free peoples; that there arc to be no subJect States m the

its foundation, no part of the structure of international justice can stand. The people of the United States could act upon no other principle; and to the vindication of this princii_>le they are ready to devote their lives, their honor, and everything that they possess. The moral climax of this, the culminating and final v>ar for human liberty, has come, and they are ready tQ

1919. C.ONGRESSIONAL RECORD- 'ENATE. 8-291 put their own strength, theiL· own highe t purpose, their- own intPgrity and d-evotion to the test."

Could there be ::r clearer declaration fo~ world liberation and world organization? The words are~

" The moral climax of this, the. culminating and final war for hum-an liberty, has come! "

Previous to .this he said: "Unless this p1·inciple [of justice to all peoples and nation

alities, and their right to live on equal terms of liberty and afety with one another,.. whether they be weak or strong] be

made the foundation, no other part of the structure of international justice can stand."

In line with this is the President's earlier tatement nea1·ly a year before, January 22,. 1917, wherein be f:aid:

"No p ace can last, or ought to last. which does not recognize and accept the principle that governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed. . . . These are American principles, American policies. We could staml for no others. And they are also the principles and policies of forward-looking men and women everywhere, of every modern nation, of every enllght ned community. They are the princip,e. of mankind and must prevail."

ADDRESS TO CONGRESS, FEBRUARY 1.1, 191.8~

President Wilson on February 11 audressed a joint ·ession of Congress in ans,ver to Germany and Austria. He said:

"We are indomitable in our powe~ of independent action and can in no circumstances consent to lh·e in a world governed by intrigue and force. We believe that our own desire for a new international order under which reason and justice and the common intere ts of mankind shall prevail is. the <lesire of enlightened men everywhere. Without that new order the world will be without peace, and human life will lack tolerable conditions of existence and development.. Having set our- band to the task of achieving it, we shall net turn back.

" * ~· * I have spoken thus only that the whole world may know the true spirit of America-that men everywhere Dllly know that our passion for justice and for self-government is no mere passion of words, but a passion which once set in action must be satisfied. The power of the United States- is a menace to no nation of people. It will never be used in aggression ar for the aggrandizement of any seliish interest of our own. lt springs out of freedom and is for the service of freedom:~

MOUNT VERNON, JULY 4, 1918.

At 1\lount Vernon:, J'uly 4, 1918, the President said: " * * * The past and the present are in deadly grapple, and

the peoples of the world are being don~ to dea.th between them. " There can be but one issue. The settlement must be final.

There can be no compromise. · No · halfway decision would be tolerable. No halfway decision is conceivable~ * * *

" These great objects can be put into a single sentence: Wbat we seek is the reign of law, based upon the consent of the. governed, and snstaloed by the organized opinion ef mankind!'

Nli:W Y<>UK CITY ADDRJDSS, SElPTlilMBER 7, 191.!t

Again, on September 27. 1918, President \Vilson~ in an address at New York City.,. reiterated the fundamental principles and said:

" We acept the issues of the war as facts, not as any group o:f men here or elsewhere had defined them, and we can acce1Jt no outcome which does not squarely -meet and settle them. Those is~•aes are these :

" Shall the military power of any nati{)n or group of nations be suffered to determine the fortunes of people over whom the:y:

. have no right to rule except the right of force-? . " Shall strong nations be free to wrong weak nations and make

them subject to their purpose and interest? " Shall peoples be ruled and dominated, even in their O\VIl

internal affairs, by arbitrary and irresponsible force or by their own will and choice?

" Shall there be a common standard of right and privilege for all peoples and nations, or shall the strong do as they will and the weak suffer without redress?

" ShalL the assertion of right be haphazard an:d by casual alliance, or shall there be a common concert to oblige the observance of common rights?

" No man, no group of men, chose these to be the issues of the struggle. They are the issues of it; and they must be settledby no arrangement or compromise or adjustm.~t Qof interests, but definitely and once for all, and with: a .full and unequivocal acceptance of the principle that the intere t of the weak is. as sacred as the interest ef the strongest.

"'Tbis is what we mean when we speak of a perDlilllent peace, if we· speak sincerely, intelligently, ancl with. a real know! d:re antl comprehension of th matter we d-eal with.

* . * • * * * *

'"If it be in deed' and in truth. tlw common obj ct of the Gov~ ernments associated' again t Germany· and of tile- nations whom they govern; a1; I believe it to be, t{)! achieve b.y- the coming settle .. m-ents a secure and lasting peace-, it wilt De n-eees rrry that all who si.t down at the peace table shall come· ready anc:J willing to pay the price, the onl'y price; that will procure it; and' ready and willing a lso to create in some vi.JJiJe fashi-on: the, only instru· mentality by which it can be made certain tlint the agreements of the peace will be honored and fulfilled.

" That price is impartial justice in eveey item of tl'le settle~ ment, no rna tter wb.ose interest is cross.e<!; and not only impartial justice but also the- satisfactien of" the several peoples whose fortunes are dealt with. That indispensable instru· mentality is a league of nations formed under covenants that will be efficacious. * * t.•

" t; * * It is the peculiarity, of tills- great war that while state men have seemed to cast about fo.1' definitions of their purpose and have· sometinies seemed to shift their ground and their point of view, the thought of the mass: of men, whom stat~ men are suppo&'d to instruct and lead, has grown more and more unclouded, more nnd more certain. O"f what 1t is that they are :fighting for. - .,.ati~nal vurposes have fa:llen more and more int() the background and the common purpose of enlightened mankind has taken their place. The coun. el.s of plain. men have become on all bands more simple and straightforward and mo.re unified than the counsels of sophisticated men o1: affai:l's .. who still retain the impression that they are playin<r a game- of po er and high stakes. Tl1at is why I have sai<I tlrat this i.s a people's war, not a statesman's. Statesmen mu t foUow the cla..ri:fied common thought or be broltcn.

" ~' * *' It [the world] wishes the final triumph oi ju tice and fair den.llng. The sort of pea.ee wbiell· wi:ll bring security

' and reassurance to al1 peoples- and make the: recurrence of another sudi struggle of pitile~s f.or:e , and bJOO.dshed' forever iln· possrlJI~."

ThiS" is a }JTogram far liberty., justiee,, and pe-rpetual peacethe libernt program. The plaiu meaning is tha-t one of the ess ntial elements for an elliluring pe-ace is free Smte.~ everywhere !

Aml this is the cont:ra~t at No~ember 5, J:9:1S rufirmed by tlle peace conference ;

ITL At/irmed 1.r;J pea..ec can..terrence-*' Jim14f1TV; £5, :tru!J.

At a essl{)n of the plenary counci11 of· the peace eonferenee, .January 25, 1919,. at whleh was d~ded to. install a league ~f natians in the- treaty of peace., P'resiWmt Wllsen delivered the prln.<cir>al address:,. nnd iu it h.e aid,:

"We nr here, to see that every people-in the wor-ld shall choos~ its- awn master and gpvern its own aesti:aies) not as we wL"lh. but as they wish. · "We are to see, in short, that the- ~cy foun<lations of th.is war are swept away. Those foundations were· the private choice of a small coterie of <'ivil rulers an<l military sta.fl's. Those foundations were the aggressions of great poweJ!S upon small. These foun.dations were the h.olding togethelf ef empires of unwillmg subjects by the duress of nrmies. * * *

" And nothing less than the emaneipati;gn o-:r the world from these' things ill aceompl1sh, peace ~ ~ *-

" And"" than.k: GOO,. these: anes bav~ been a:eeepted as the lines of settlement by all of the high-minded men who· h-ave ha<l to do with the beginning of tbis business.'"

The next speaker in the plenary couneil was Premier LloydGeorge, who said:

" 11 slrouldl not have· intervened at aH, b11t it was necessary for me to. state lww empnati.cally tbe people o:f' th~ lliiti b Empire are behind! this proposal; and Ul the lea-ders oi the British Em·plre have not- been able to- devote so mueh time during the past five years as they woul<f have llkedi t:Q< tlllii question, the rea.S(ID s that they were occupied with other questions that were more urgent for the moment."'

AlsO'· supporting peeches were made by repFes ntativ ; of Fl-an.ce, Italy, Japan, and other powers; Not a note of ill -·ent was struck.

Andl two days later, January 27, 1919', tJi.e. conferees agreed that the former averseas possessions @f Germany should be placed under' th~ rnnrdianship of. the league- of nations,. the several nations ro becoille' mandatOi.·ies-.

Then occurred: a silent ·ecllp e (}f the pledge of the allied coalition Go-vernments and of the United St t s for freedom for their sub-ject state : IV. Silent elipse of the pl.edgQ: 'by the anied c.oaU'ti.Jm. -Gov.eruments ana

United States Government to,. freedom fen: tlleir- su1Jjee.t states..

Just how it occurred is not publicly lm6WB!,. except that the policy of repudiating this pledge w-as not taken befo:re the publi~~ Th~ subject States were almost euti:rely mrtsidf. e.f Europe

:and tbey were not connected mth the n:gitati6n U1~n in pro-hre_s in Europe for the installation of the people's rule. Whatever

8298 CONGRESSION .AL RECORD-SEN ATE. NOVEl\IBER 11,

xea ·on· then existed for refusing to carry out the pledge and for not taking the question before the world, to-day there is .e-very reason for discussing it and carrying out the contract. , World liberation is practicable. Such portions of Ireland as desire to become free have as much right to do so as has Poland. And the backward people who are being held as subjects by the Allie· and the United States should all be placed under the tutelage of the league of nations and mandatories, as is being done with the former overseas possessions of Germany. The principle is that the existing aliim rule in Egypt, Indian, Korea, and the other subject States held by the Europeans is horribly wrong, as the following facts demonstrate:

V. The evils from alien. t·ule.

SECTION A. THE AWFUL BASIS OF ALIEN RULE.

Where the rule of the few is by members of the same nationality that is being ruled, the evil is very serious. The evil is much worse where the rulers are resident aliens; and very, very much worse where the rulers are aliens living in another country. This is real alien rule.

Each of the leading nations of Europe are real alien rulers. They are ruling foreign nations, and in doing so the primary aim is the undue benefit of the rulers, at the expense of their political slaYes. In doing this the foreign rulers are shipping out of the thickly populated lands a considerable portion of the raw products. This i~ horrible.

Added to this is the difference in nationality or of race, the foreign rulers forcibly asserting their superiority, although it may consist merely in brute force.

Then, in order to .help hold their slaves in subjection, they refuse to educate them, keeping them in ignorance. Also these foreign rulers slyly develop prejudices between the different sects of their slaves ; as, for instance, between Mohammedans and Hindus; and develop prejudices between the different nationalities. Nor do the foreign rulers strive to lessen the differences in dialects, wen knowing that '! divide and conquer " is the basis of their sway, plus the region of force and the suppression of free ·peech, accompanied by mutual hatred and cruelty •.

But mankind has entered the democratic new age--the era of the brotherhood of man. For the first time on earth the people's s tage of development is such that they are in power in the lead-

. ing nations of earth whene-ver they exert themselves, and to their self-interest in ending competition in armament and war is joined a desire to free the last of earth's slaves. Alien rule is being ended; the freed peoples in the former German colonies are to receive a charter of liberties from the league of nations, buttressed by an administrative court, so as to ascertain continuously if the liberty-giving charter is being applied; and these blessings for all subject States were contracted for as the basis for closing the World War. We in the United States must Yaliantly stand for it.

SECTIO~ B. THE AUTOCRATIC MECHANIS?>I OF ALIEN RULE.

One is greatly surprised to learn of the mechanism whereby this dreadful alien rule is maintained. The trick whereby this -vicious ystem has been retained by the British Empire has recently been told by the secretary of state for India, Mr. E. S. 1\fontagu, a life-long Liberal. He, while explaining to the House of Commons the cause of the disaster in the Mesopotamia campaign, said, July 12, 1917:

"It has sometimes been questioned whether a democracy can rule an empire. I say that in this instance the democracy never had an opportunity of trying. For even if the House of Commons were to give orders to the secretary of state, the secretary of state i not his own master. In matters vitally affecting India he can be oy-erruled by a majority of his council. * * * And these gentlemen are appointed for seven years, and can only be controlled from the houses of Parliament by resolution carried in both houses calling on them for their resignations. The whole sy tern of the India office is designed to prevent control by the House of Commons for fear that there might be too advanced a secretary of state."

This is only one part of the grossly reactionary system deliberately designed to prevent control by the people's representatives of the British Isles. The members of the India council at London are men " who come home after lengthy service in India to spend the first years of their retirement as members of the council of India," the result being, said Mr. Montagu, the inefficiency ·hown to exist, requiring " the practice of telegrams backWard

and forward and of private telegrams, commented upon [unfavorably] by the Mesopotamia report."

Continuing, Mr. Montagu said: " Does any member of this house know much about the pro

cedure in the India office, how the council sits in committees, how there is interposed between th~ civil servants and the politi-

cal chiefs the committee of the India council, and how the draft on some simple question comes up through the civil servant to the undersecretary of state, and may be referred back to the committee, which sends it ·back to him and it then goes to the secretary of state, who then sends it to the India council, whicll may refer it back to the committee, · and two or three times in its history it may go bac1.-ward and forwarll. I say that this system is cumbrous, so designed to pre-vent efficien y and change, that in the light of these revelations [made by the Me opotamia cominission] it can not continue to exist ... the statutory organization of the India office produce an apotheo. is of circumlocution and red tape beyond the dreams of any ordinary citizen.''

This monstrosity is the system after nine years of rule by the British Liberal Government , 1906-1915. Doubtle sit must have been the selfishness of the people of the Briti h Isles that prevented the noted Liberals from doing the manly thing-prevented them from promoting the welfare of their foreign slave . Now, however, the question has become a world problem, and Divine Providence has so constructed lmman affai~·s .that the only way whereby the self-governing people, the democracie , can free themselves from competition in armament and war is to first free their subject peoples-put an end to alien rule. And as the Irish question has not yet been settled it bring forward in United States politics an irresistible element for the maintenance of the international contract for world liberation, a contract to which the United States is a party.

VI. Political subjects ltelil to-day by force an a often, unj-ustly. GREAT BRITAIN-'S SUBJECTS.

In India (one-sixth the world's population}------------In Ceylon and Eastern Islands-----------------------~In West Indies------------------------------------- -In Africa : _ . _

Egypt ------------------------~ ----East African Protectorate ___________ _ Uganda Protectorate-----------------Zanzibar ---------------------------Mauritius -------------------------Nyasaland Protectorate-------------Somaliland ------------------------South Africa-

Basutoland - ---------- --- -----Buchuanaland -----------------Rhodesia ---------·--------------

Swaziland --------------- ----------Province of Good IIope _____________ _

13,000,000 4,000,000 3,000,000

200,000 115,000

1,200,000 300,000

400,000 125,000 800,000 100,000

2,500,000 1,200,000 Province of NataL-----------------

West ~fri~a-Nlgerla ------------------------ 18, 000, 000 Gold · Coast--------------------- 1, 500, 000

315,000,000 5,000,000 2, 000,000

In Alrica ________________ ___ _______ __ ___ 44,440,000 In Ireland, the Roman Catholics outside of

the Protestant counties, probably_______ 3, 000, 000 Total number of political subjects held by

Great Britain ------------------------ 370, 000, 000 The l'nlers of these vast millions arc in nt1mbers as fol

lows: · England---------------------- - ---------Scotland ____ ·----------------------------Wales----------------------------------Protestants in Ireland-------------------South African Union (white)-------------Australia-------------------------------New Zealand --------------------------Canada -----~--------------------------Newfoundland---------------------------

35,000,000 5,000,000 2,000,000 2,000,000 1,200,000 5,000,000 1,000,000 6,000,000

250,000 -----· Total------ -------- ------------ - ------------- 57,450,000

Or less than one-sixth the number of their political subjects.

Ii'UE::-<CH SUBJECTS. In Algeria _________ : __________________ _ In Tunis---------------- ---------------In Morocco ----------------------------In West Africa----------------- ---- ----In French KongO------------------------In Indo-China ________________ _: _________ _ In French Guiana---------~--------------

u,OOO,OOO 2,000,000 5,500,000

13,000,000 3,500,000

18,000,000 2,300,000

Total------------------------------------- --- 49,300,000 FrenchllleninFrance--------------------------- 40,000,00~

ITALIAN SUBJECTS.

In Tripoli---------------7-------------- GOO,OOO In Somaliland--------------------------- 450, 000 In Eritrea______________ _______________ _ 450, 000

Total---------------------------------------- 1,100,000 Italians in Italy____________ __________ __ ______ _ 33,000, 000 JAPANESE SUBJECTS.

In ~orea------------------------------- 17,000,000 In Formosa---------------------------- - 4,000,000 In Kwantung -------------~------------- 850, 000 In Sakhalin ____ -_ ______________ ______ ; ; -- 60,. 000

Total----------------------------- -------- --- 21,910,000 . Japanese in Japan_________________ GO, 000, 000

The Japanese lay claim to industrial control in Shantung, wherein are 40,000,000 Chine e.

1919. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SEN ATE. 8299 U:-<ITED STATES POSSESSIOXS.

The United States has promised freedom to · the people of the Philippine Islands, who

number------------------------------- 9,000,000 The people of Porto Rico are citizens, but

they ardently desire independence. They number_______________________________ 800, 000

The people of llawaii number-------------- 200, 000

Total---------------------------------------- 10,000,000 n:f:suu:f:.

British subjectS------------------------- 370, 000,· 000 French subjects ------------------------- 49, 300, 000 Italian subjects ------------------------- 1, 100, 000 Japanese subjects ----------------------- 21, 910, 000 Japanese subject:; in controversy___________ 40, 000, 000 United States pos essions------.---------- 10, 000, 000

.Approximately-------------------------------- GOO, 000, 000 Or more than· one· fourth of the world's population.

III. Summary and conclusion-Now is the time for the United. States Senate to act.

We lla ve sllo\\"'TI · the existence of an international contract for world settlement, including a declaration for freedom for subject States. And we also have pointed to a practical method for maintaining their freedom-for the backward people the protection by the league of nations and active assistance by mandatories. The need for international protection to end the selfish domination by alien rulers is extremely urgent. And the time has arrived to go forward, the United States Senate being the forum. Should the Senate become a party to the existing repudiation of contract for free peoples, then within tlle league of nations a single member in the council can actually \eto an amendment. Therefore the existing contract, purchased by tlle death of 7,000,000 human lives, 100,000 being our fellow citizens, should be maintained. Furthermore, the idea of human freedom is our American birthright. ·Each Senator can conscientiously Yote for it.

Respectfully submitted. L~GUE FOR WORLD FEDERATION,

By GEORGE H. SHIDLEY, P1·csiclcnt. "'AsHI~GTON, D. C., Norenz.be1· G, 1919.

Joint resolution (S. J. Res. 94) proposing as u war measure an international convention for the J?urpose of terminating international anarchy, establishing international government in lieu thereof, and coercing the Teutonic military conspiracy by the organized commercial, financial, military, and naval powers of the worlU. "Resoh;ed, etc., That it is the opinion of the representatives

of the people of the United States assembled in Congress that international governnwnt, supported by ' international force, ·hould be immediately organized to take the place of the existing international anarchy; that competing armaments should be replaced by a noncompetitive international army and navy; that the Teutonic military conspiracy to dominate the world shoulel be overthrown by the combined commercial, financial, military, and naval powers of the world. .

"That international government should be based upon the following principles:

"First. Every civilized nation and informec.l people sllould have the unquestionable right of internal self-government, with exclu ·ive control within its own territory over immigration, emigration, imports, exports, and all internal affairs, with the right to make its own political and commercial affiliations.

" Second. The oceans and high seas should be free and open under international rules. All international waterways, straits, and canals should be open on equal terms to the citizens of all nations. Equal terms should be arranged for fuel, repairs, and dockage iii all ports for the ships belonging to the citizens of all nations.

"Third. All interior nations having no seaports should have the right of shipment of their goods in bond on equal terms and conditions, without tax, through any intervening territory to the seaports of any other nation with · equal access to shipping facilities.

"Fourth. That there should be e tablished by international · agreement an international organization of all civilized nations with au international legislati\'e council to draft rules of international law to be suhmitted to the several nations for approval. That when such rules of international law are approved by the parliaments, or law-making branch of the Governments of threefourths of the member nations, representing three-fourths of the total population of all the member nations, such international rule · should be binding on all member nations. - Such rules should be limited to the powers expressly delegated to such international legislative council and strictly confined to international affairs.

"Fifth. The international legislative council should elect and define the duties of n representali.'e international executive

cabinet to execute and enforce the rules established as international law.

"Sixth. The international legislative council should have representatives from each member tiation exercising a voting power according to relative population, relative wealth, and relative governmental development, to be determined by international agreement.

" Se\enth. The international legislath·e council should establish and define the duties of an international supreme court, with power to· pass upon all questions of international controversy incapable of diplomatic adjustment but with no power to pass on questions affecting the resen-ed rights of nation·.

"Eighth. The international legislattve council should formulate the method for raising an international army and navy and for establishing an international blockade and other means for enforcing the rights of member nations under international law, such army and navy to be pro\ided and sustained by the member nations pro rata according to relative population and wealth.

"Ninth. 'VHh the conclusion of the present "War the nations of the "World should agree to reduce in progressive stages their land and sea forces to a point preferably not to exceed internal or local police pur.poses and the quota required for the international army and navy.

" 'Vith progressive disarmament and international peace safeguarded by world government dissatisfied nations now held captive by dominant nations for strategical purposes could be safely given their liberty.

"Tenth. That the international army and navy should not be apthorized to exercise military force further than to prevent or suppress the in\asion of the territorial integrity of any of the member nations and in the blockade and embargo to enforce international law.

"Eleventll. Thnt it should be a violation of international law and the highest international crime for any nation on any alleged grotmd to invade the territorial limits of another nation. The penalty of such invasion should be immediate international blockade of the invading nation, embargo on all mail, express, and freight to or from such nation, and the suppression of such invasion by the international army and navy.

" Twelfth. That nations backward in education, industrial aml economic development, and in the knowledge of the principles of government ~hould ha\e their rights safeguarded on the principles of freedom, humanity, and justice by international agreement with a view to future self-government.

"Thirteenth. It is clearly realized that the program of progressive disarmament or permanent world peace is impossible of attainment until the military forces now ruling the Teutonic people, first, either voluntarily acquiesce in progressive disarmament and international justice as the basis of world peace; second, are forced to do so by the Teutonic people; or, third, arc coerced to do so by the combined powers of the world.

"Fourteenth. That in order to bring this war to an early termination the belligerent nations opposing the Teutonic powers should illllllediately cohere on a plan of international government pledging justice and peace to all member nations and the coercion of the military autocracy of Prussia by the commercial, financial, military, and naval ·forces of the world, giving assurance, nevertheless, to the Government of Germany and Austria of their willingness to admit the Teutonic powers as members of the proposed international union on equal terms with other nations when they shall have met the conditions and given satisfactory guaranties.

" Fifteenth. In our opinion no reliance should be placed upon the vague suggestions of peace of the Teutonic military autocracy, but that their obscure proposals shotlld be regarded merely as a military ruse. The peace resolution of the Reichstag, while promising well for the attitude of the German people, when they achieve self-government, can not at present be regarded as a proposal binding on or capable of enforcement by the German people, because they do not control their own Go\ernment, l>nt are mere subjects and puppets of a military autocracy which has long conspired and still dreams of conquering the world by military force and terrorism. The United States and the nations opposing militarism shoul<l strenuously prosecute the war with every aTailablc resource, and no separate peace shoultl be made by any of them until the menace of the military autocracy of Germany is removed.

"Sixteenth. It is our opinion ·that if a "·orl<l-wlde agreement can be established on the above principles, and the men now engaged in slaughter and destructive activities can be returned to producti"le industry, the world could quickly recover the gigantic shock of the present "War and would be able without serious difficulty to soon repair the material injuries and losses already suffered.

8300 CONGRESS! ON AL RECORD-SEN ATE. N ~VE.nillER 11,

"Seventeenth. Tbe United States does not enter this war for "The United States finally reeognized the· unavoidable ncces-material advantage, for any selfish purpose, or to gratify either . sity of meeting the forces o:t this military conspiracy on the · malice or ambition. The United States win not approve forcible battle fields of Europe in order to prevent the u ilitary rulers annexations or mere punitive indemnities, but it will approve a of Germany and Austria succe ding irn the first step of ma~terfree Poland, the restoration of territory wrongfully taken from ing Europe as a means to mastering and robbing America. France and Italy, and restorative indemnity to Belgium and "The United States can not be deceived by tho e military, Serbia, and the adjustment of other differences by international leaders of Germany and Austria who now, before their own conferences. It will favor extending international credits for people, pretend to be waging a war of defense and to de ire the restoration of all places made waste by wal". The United an honorable peace, but whose every act has clearly <lemonStates enters this war in self-defense; to protect its own citizens strated to the whole world that they deliberately planned and and the nations of the world in their present and future rights- are still persisting in this unspeakably brutal war, with their to life and liberty on land and sea. It does not wish the world sinister purposes unchanged, and which they are still attemptto remilln an armed camp. ing to carry out by terrorism, int_rigue, and systematic fal e-

" Eighteenth. No peace is desirable until the world can b-.3 hood and deceit at home and abroad. afeguar<led against a repetition of the present war. Competi- "The United States can not confide in any statement or

tivo armaments must be ended and replaced by international promise emanating from such a perfidious source until the ooperative armaments in order to assure pel'manent world GeJ·man and Austrian people in fact and in sober truth can

peace. control the conduct of their agents and compel them to obse1·1a "Nineteenth. That the President of the United States shall the ruJes of morality and good faith.

immediately submit the above resolution to the belligerent na- "The unbounded runbition 'and deeeit of the· Prussian military tions now defending themselve~ against Prussia.n military au- autocrats- are a.e:ain exposed in shameless nakedness before th9 tocracy n.nu 'invite them and all neutral nations by wire to an 1 German and Austrian people, their allies, and the worhl at international convention for the purpose of considering the large, in their present demands of annexation of adjacent }{usabove principles and taking affirmative action for the early sian territory and other demands· contemplatin,. the daminasuppression of the Teutonic military autocratic conspiracy by tion of the Russian and Polish people in fiat vioiation of heir the combined commercial, financial, military, anu naval powers own Reichstag' recent ple<lges against annexation and in-of all nations. demnity.

"Twentieth. The sum of $400.000 is hereby appropriated to "The United States feels for the nus ian people the liveliest meet the cost of prolllilting such convention." sympathy in their great losses in life and prvpe1·ty at the hands

Senate concm7ent resolution 17. "Resol-cea by the Senate (the House of Rep1·esentatives con

curring), The United States declru· d a state of. war existing be· tween the Imperial Government of Germany and tile Imperial and Royal Government of Austria and the United States because of their repeated willful violations of the rights of the people of the United States under the acknowled.,.ed principles of international law; the sinking of unarmed merchant ves els and of hospital and Red Cro ships; the destruction of the lives of unoffending American citizens on tl1eir lawful business on the high seas on many occasions. filling the United States with spie · anU secret agents-; conspiring the wholesale destruction of Amerfcan industries by arson. by explosions and murder ; systematically promoting sedition and treaSQn among ow.· citizens, and the criminal violation of our la.ws by the German and Austrian aliens residing in the United States; entleavoring to incite the hostility and aversion of other nations against the l]nited States and to persuade Mexico and Japan to make war upon the United States. and many other wrongful acts contrary to tlle laws of nations and in violation of justice and of humanity; and for the further reason that it had finally become known to the United States from indisputab1e evidence that the military masters. of Germany and Au tria had deliberately and ecretly conspired to bring about an elaborately prepared of

fensive war by which and through which they intended, .first, to dominate Europe, nation by nation, and then to dominate the other unprepared nations of the earth and establish a military world dominion.

" For many years past the governing powers of Germany and _ Austria have by worl~wide intrigue cru·ried on a systematic attempt to disorganize public opinion in the United States and in the other nations of the world for the purpose of breaking down the powers of resistance of other nations against this conspiracy for world dominion by exciting nation against nation and internal di. order among the nations that might oppose this sinister design.

"The United States has not forgotten that the military ruJers of Germany an<l Au tria deliberately prevented international ag1·eements at the various Hague conventions for arbitration of international differences, abatement of armaments, and world peace.

" The United States recognizes this war as an offensive war of the completely prepared German a.n.d Austrian military autocracies again t the unsuspecting and inadequately prepared democracies of the world in pursuance of the policy laid down in the fir t and second articles of the secret treaty of Verona of November 22, 1822, in which the autoc1·atic rulers of Prussia and Austria solemnly pledged their powers to each other to OYei'throw nll 'repre entutive' governments on earth, the cons ummation of which design the Prussian and Austrian n,uto.:cratic group has steadily and secretly kept in view, and that this wat· had for its objects the premeditated slaughter and robbery of the innocent peoples of other nations for the so.rd1d and base purposes of annexation, indemnity, robbery~ and commercial profit by military force and terrorism and ultimate world dominion.

of the German and Austrian autocrats, as well as their mao-nificent and glorious struggles in behal! of freedom and democratic world peace ..

"Having passed through many severe- tests and trial. in establishing popular government in America, the people of the Unite<l States, through their own directly elected repre enta· tives, de ~ire to extend to the Russian people the cordial hand of fellewship in their new-found freedom and to assure their democratic brothers in Russia that we earnestly desire to render them, so far as pos ible, every assistance they may need and which they themselves de. ireA

"The United States did not enter this· war for matet·ial advantage or- for any selfish purpose- or to- gratify eUher malice Ol' ambition:.

"The United States will not approve of' forcible annexations or mere punitive imlemnitje , even on the misguided peQpleof Austria OI" of Ger-nltrny, but demands the complete evacuation of nll territory invaded dUring the present wu by the German and Austrian troops, and the restoration and indemnity of Belgium, Serbia,. Rou.mania, and Montenegro.

"The United States believes that righting the wrong •lone to the French people by the Prussian Government in 1871 in the matter of Alsacc-Lorraine will remove lo.ng-peniling o-l'iBv· ances due to previous military aggression and will promote future world peace.

.. The United State" believes that a readjustment of the frontiers of Italy should be effected along clearly recognized lines of nationality; that an independent Polish state should be established over territory indisputably occupied by Polish people; that the peoples of Austria-Hungary, of the Ba.lkans, and o.f the Ottoman Empire should ha.ve tbe right of autono· mous development.

"The United States will favor recognizing and protecting bY, an international alliance the territorial' integrity of all nations, great and small ; the maintenance o1 the right of unembarrassed self-determination of all nations, and the right of such nations to manage their own affairs· by internal self-govern· ment; and safeguarding the rights of backwurt.l peoples bY. international agreement.

.. The United States will favor extending international credits for the restoration of all places made waste by war.

" The United States will insist that the oceans and hign seas and international waterways and canals shall be open on equal terms to the citizens of all nations; that all nations shall have the untaxed right of access· to the sea of their "'oods in bond, through any intervening territory to the- seaports of other nations, with equal access to shippin"' facilities.

"The United States will favor the removal. as far as pos. 1ble, of an economic barriers and the establishment of equal trade conditions among all the nations of the- world consenting to peace and as<sociating themselves for its maint~nance without interfering with the right of any nation to govern its own imports and exports.

"The United States will insist that adequate guaranties shan be given and taken to the encl tlJat national armaments on land and sea should be -reduced to the lowest points consistent with domestic safety.

'

1919. CONGRESSIONAL RECOR.D~SENATE. 8301 "The United States will fa"Vor an open-minded and abso

lutely impartial adjustment of all colonial claims based upon a strict observance of the principle that in determining all such questions of sovereignty the interests of the populations con· cernell must have equal weight with the claims of the GO\· ernments whose titles are to be determined.

''The United States recognizes that a general association of ci\i1izecl nations must be formed under specific covenants for the purpose of affording mutual guaranties of politJ.cal inde· pendence and territorial integrity to nations, great and small alike, and of maintaining world peace, and believes that tmder such a system dissatisfied peoples now held under subjection to dominating nations for strategical purposes could be safely given their liberty and autonomy as the rights of the dominant nation 'vould be made safe by the general association of nations, and the subject nation would cease to be a coveted asset against future war.

"The United States believes that under such general association of nations it should be a violation of international law and the highest international crime for · any nation, on any alleged ground, to invade by military power the territorial limits of another nation, and that the penalty for such invasions should be the immediate international blockade of the in\ading and offending nation, an embargo on all mail, express, and freight to and from such nation, and the suppression of such invasion by the combined forces of the general association of nations org.•mized for the protection of world peace.

"The United States believes that all future international treaties should be made in the open, where all the world may know of the proceedings in the framing of such h·eaties, and that secret diplomac·y and international intrigue should end.

"The United States desires to be on friendly terms, political, commercial, and social, with the people of every nation, including those now under the control of the German and Austrian military autocracies, and to restore as speedily as possible these friendly relations with the German and Austrian people as soon as they organize a Government res11onsible to the will of the people of Germany and Austria, and whenever they shall themselves demonstrate a willingness to deal with the other nations of the world on a basis of equality, justice, and humanity, and are willing to abandon the atrocious and detestable doctrine of making war for annexation, indemnity, and profit.

"The United States entered this war to protect the rights of its own citizens to life and liberty, to protect is own future, to make the world safe from the future menace of military despotism, dynastic ambitions, or competing armaments, to establish permanent world peace on n basis of international justice, righteousness, and humanity, and, in cooperation with the self-governing belligerent nations, will maintain these principles, whatever the cost, with firmness and resolution until these ends are fully accomplished."

ORDER FOR EVENING SESSION.

Mr. LODGE. I mo>e that at not later than G o'clock 11. m. to-day the Senate take a recess until 8 o'clock p. m.

The motion was agreed to. Mr. LODGE. I now ask unanimous consent that at the e\en

ing session the Senate '\ill consider the bill known as the District of Columbia police salary bill, and that no other business will be considered; and further, that at the evening session, upon the conclusion of the consideration of the bill named, the Senate will take a recess, as in open executive session, until 11 o'clock a. m. to-morrow.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Is there objection to the unanimous consent agreement asked? The Chair hears none, and it is so ordered.

1\Ir. LODGE. I moYe that the Senate take a recess until S o'clock this evening.

The motion was agreed to; and (at G o'clock p. rn.) the Senate took a recess until 8 o'clock p. m.

EVENING SESSION. The Senate reassembled at 8 o'clock p. rn.

NAMING A PRESUHNG OFFICER.

The Secretary (George A. Sanderson) read the following communication·:

To TilE SENATE :

UNITED STATES SE~ATE, PRESIDEKT PRO TEMPORE,

WASHINGTON, D. C., November 11, 1919.

Being temporarily absent . !rom the Senate, T appoint Hon. REED SMOOT, a Senator from the State of Utah, to perform the duties of the Chair during my absence at the evening session.

AJ,BERT B. CUMMINS, Pt·esiclcnt Pro Tempore.

· Mr. S~IOOT thereupon took the chair as Presiding Officer at tJJe e\ening session.

METROPOLITAN POLICE OF TllE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA.

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senate will proceed to the consideration of House bill 9821, Order of business 238.

The Senate, as in Committee of the 'Vhole, proceeded to con· sider the bill (H. R. 9821) to amend an act entitled "An a~t relating to the Metropolitan police of the District of Columbia," approved February 28, 1901, and for other purposes, which bad been reported from the Committee on the District of Columbia with an amendment to strike out all after the enacting clause and insert:

That paragmphs 2. 3 8, antl 9 of section 1 of the act entitled "An act relating to the Metropolitan police of the District of Columbia," approved February 28, 1901. as amended by the act entitled "An act to amend section 1 of an ·act entitled '.An act relating to the Metropolitan police of the District of Columbia,' approved February 28, 1901," approved June 8, 1906, as amended, are amPnded to read as follows:

"PAR. 2. (a) The commissioners of said District shall appoint to office, assign to such duty or duties as they may prescribe, and promote all officers and members of said Metropolitan police force: Provided, That all officers. members, and civilian employees of the force, except the major and superintendent, the assistant superintendents, and the inspectors, shall hereafter be appointed and promoted in accordance with the provisionf: of an act entitled "An act to regulate and improve the civil service of the United States," approved January 16, 1883, as amended, and the rules and rpgulations made in pursuance thereof, in the same manner as members of the classified civil service of the United States: Provided ftwther, That hereafter the assistant superintendents and inspectors shall be selected from among the captains of the force and shall be returned to the rank of captain when the commissioners so determine. ·

"(b) All original appointments of prh·ates shall be made to class 1. Privates who have served one year in class 1 shall be transferred to class 2, and privates who have served two year in class 2 shall be transferred to class 3. Such transfers shall not be subject to the provisions of an act entitled "An act to regulate and improve the civH service of the United States," approved January 16, 1883, as amended, and the rules and regulations made in pursuance thereof: Provided, 'I'hat hereafte:!.', in order that the full complement of the Metropolitan police force may at all times be maintained, as authorized by law, the Commissioners of the District of Columbia are authorized, when vacancies occur in classes 2 and 3 of said Metropolitan police force which can not be filled by transfer, to appoint privates in class 1 equal in number to the positions vacated in said classes 2 and 3 ; and the respective salaries specifically provided for such vacant positions may be reduced to pay the salaries of the privates so appointed in class 1.

"PAR. 3. The said Metropolitan police force shall consist of one major and superintendent, who shall continue to be invested with such powers and charged with such duties as is provided by existing law ; and also 2 assistant superintendents. 4 surgeons for the police and fire departments, 3 inspectors, 12 captains, 21 lieutenants, 1 of whom shall be harbor master, and such number of sergeants and privates of class 3, privates of class 2, privates of class 1, patrol drivers, mounted inspectors, captains, lieutenants, sergeants, and privates on horses and· bicycles, and such others as said commissioners may deem necessary within the appropriations made by Congress: Provided, That patrol drivers shall not be rated above privates of class 2, and, if appointed since April 6 1917 shall bP subject to physical and other te:,"'ts as new appointees: P1·ovided turtl!m·, That the inspectors shall perform the · duties at present required of captains in the force; that the captains shall command precincts and perform such other duties in connection therewith as the laws and regulations ot the said commissioners may prescribe.

"PAR. 8. (a) The annual basic salaries of the officers and members of the Metropolitan police force of the District of Columbia shall be as follows: Major and superintendent, $4.500 ; assistant superintendents, $3,000; inspectors, $2,500 ;- police surgeons, $1,800 ; captains, $2,500 ; lieutenants, $2,000; sergeants, $1,800; privates of class 3, $1,660; privates of class 2, $1,560; privates of class 1, $1,460.

"(b) Members of the force who may be mounted on horses, furnished and maintained by themselves, shall each receive an extra compensation of $600 per annum ; members of the force who may be mounted on motor vehicles, furnished and maintained by themselves, shall each receive an extra compensation of $480 per annum ; and members of the force who may be mounted on bicycles shall each receive an extra compensation of $75 per annum.

"(c) The annual basic salaries of th,' civilian employees of the Metropolitan police o.f the District of Columbia shall be as follows: Chief clerk (who shall also be property clerk), $2,300; one clerk, $1,800; one clerk and stenographer, $1,700; one clerk (who shall also be assistant property clerk), $1,400; one clerk, $1,400 ; three clerks $1,200; one clerk $900 ; patrol drivers, $1,200; telephone clerks: $1,100 ; janitors, $~00 ; laborer, $900 ; messenger, $900 ; matrons, $900.

" House of Detention : Clerks, $1,200 ; drivers, $1,000 ; guards, $1,000 ; janitor, $900; matrons, $900.

·• IIarbor patrol: Engineers, $1,400; firemen, $1,000; watchmen, $900 ; deck hands, $1,000.

"(d) Every officer, member, or civilian employee of the Metropolitan pollee at the time this act becomes law shall, in addition to tbe salary received by him for his period of service between August 1, 1919, and the time this act becomes law, receive for such period the difference between such salary and the salary payable to him under the provisions of this act, for a period of equal duration.

"PAR. 9. Whenever the Commissioners of the District of Columbia determine that any member of the Metropolitan police of . the District of Columbia has become a member of any organization which is affiliated, directly or indirectly, with any association or organization which approves, counsels, advises, or consults with any other association or organization of or concerning a strike or cessation of service 9r work by said police or any of them, they shall immediately discharge such member from the force. Any member of the police who enters into a conspiracy, combination, or agreement with the intent or purpose of substantially interfering with or obstructing the efficient conduct or operation of the police force in the District of Columbia by a strike or other disturbance shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction shall be punished by a fine of not more than $300 or by imprisonment of not more than six . months, or by both. ·

" No officer or member of the said police force, under penalty of for· felting the salary or r;,ay which may be due him, shall withdraw or resign, except by permission of the Commissioners of the District of Co-

8302 CONGltESSION AL ·_RECORD-SEN ATE. NOVEMBER 11.,

lumbln, unless he ball lla't'c given the mujol' and supcdntendent one Federation of Labor does not cnll strikes; it disc:L.'l.ims to I1ave month' notice in writing of such intention." th · h ~-.-.A d ·

Szc. 2. '.fhut one-haLf of the amount necessary ta ,p:rovioe for the e ng t, a..uu oes net exerClse the powe:t• to can trikes. AU increllSed saJarjes and compensation of the Metropolitan pollee i'orce is strikes are .called, in .the event they are, by the local unions. hereby a:ppropriatod out of any m~mey in the Trea.sury not otberw1se AlJ that 'the American Federa:tion ·of Labor ·does ]s to con~ ult appropriated. and the other one-half ·out of tbe i".e-venues of tb'e Dis- with or ad'Vise with the local, either apprO'vinu: or disapprotinu: ti·ict of Celumbia, to sqppl.cment tbe amounts apj}ropriated for the ~ ~ :members :mtl employees of the Metropolitan pol:ice mentioned in the tbe strike or cessation of service. act entitled ".L\n act lllilkt:ng appropriations to provide for rbe expenses This is intended to cover that c-ondition without naming the of the Government of the District of ·Columbia for the fiscal year end- Am · Fed ti- f Lab I fil:g June •. o. Hl~O . and for other purposes," approved .July 11. 1919. . erJcan era on o or. t was not thought :ndvi~able

SEc. 3. That the watchmen -proviood by tlle United -states Gov- to name any particu:lar organization in the 'Comrtry, but ,only ernmeot 'for scrviees in any of tne pnlJIIc squares and t·cservations In · by general phrase to cover the condition that wou.1d make it the District ot Columbia shall hereafter he known as tbe •• United • sib] f h 1o J • · ffi · · States Police," and their annual basic sa1a1·ies shall be as follows: Impos e or It e Ca' umon to a liate ·w1th any outside body Liantennnt. 1.000~ :first sergeant, 1.700.; sergeants, $1;580.; prl- that in any maaner consulted or ·advised tbe ealling of n trike vate" .L;uGO ·: Provided, That every watchman empl(}yed tor · .such or the ces..<mti-on of service. That was the pm~ose. erv.ice 11t the ·ttmc this act 'becomes 1nw sball. in addlt1on to 'thE' Mr. SPENCER. If the organization to w'hich tb.c ind1vitlual 'lury received y lllm for .the perioil of service b.ctv.een Augm:;t 1,

1'91!>, nnd the tJmc -this net becomes Law, receive for 'Sllcb ,period rtbe i policeman belongs was ·aB organization which neither .approved. ditJ'erencc .between such £ala.r;v and tll salary 'payable te him under the counseled, adVised, or consuJtecl with regard to a · trike, would prevision of this sec ion for a period .o.f equal duration. not that answer every purpose?

EC. 4. 'Tbnt 'to prov:idc fOl' the tncx·en eU salnries nnd .compensation . Mr. SHERMA.i~. r think not. I think I't mucb M.""' "'"' to haVP. nr tbe 1Jnit a t tes J'o1icc, so much ns Ls necessary is hereby a_Ppro· ~~ _ pr"~ted. out of any ·money In the 'Treasury not utherwise nppropi'Iated, it cover the OI~ganization it elf. It is a prohibition ()f the a:ffilia~ to upplcmcnt tbl" amounts :rpprapriatcd for park -wntehmen mentioned tion Vtitb ::my other organization, which in this pa:rticulaT in· in the act cntitlefl «an a6t milking a:pproprintkm.'!l for the legislativ: ' stance is the American Federat1'on ·of La:J~~r·_ t11at disCI'pii'nes 1:-y cx cuttve, .and judicilll expenses of tbe Government >for the fiscal ye1lr uv . "' nuin.g 1hmc 30, 11l20, and ro.r ..other pnl'poscs," approv-ed :Mlrrch 1., 1919~ withholding -or revok'ing n charter or by ;pproving or disapprov-

'lrhc PRESIDING FFICEP The questi n j ·au agreeing to ' ing a strike. It is intended to cover that. the amendment f th comrrlltte . l\!l'. SPENCER. I think it docs cover affiliation, :bnt I c:rll the

lli. CUJlTH:t , 1r. P:resiCIE>.n't, I wi "'Jl to sk th -Chairman <Of Senator's .attention to the fact that it 'tloes not co¥er the local Ulc committee in rep;aru to the item on pa~e 7, line 2. When th-e union itself. So far .as this para.,.raph 1 concerned, a policeman Di trict appruprintion bill was being con "d€red the committee could bel{)ng to a union that believed, coun el~ and udYi d a in chal·gc a a~od to .add ft r the wm·d "elerk,H ·a it n:p- st~·- · THOl\IA •. I ··"h;~,., if UJe ~""~-t 1 rs in Une 2, th ord 'who hall ben . enographer, ~. 1,800." WJ.ll1J>. enator iVill P rnlit rue, l..ill.L

I ~ 1hi b111 only provides that the eler'k :Shall receive 1, 00 . the first complete entenee on page 8 wou1 mE>et the ·objection ~md es not 11rov:idf' that that .clerk hall be a stenagrapher • . whlch he makes to the phraseology to wJljcJ l1 refers. I k t h hairma:n of tbe · mmittee or the ~enato1' in charge <Jf -lr. SPENCER. It might, because, of -course, if the policeman t1}e bill, with tbi~ item 1 n. it 1 . if e -:n~" not paying .n.n was a lnember of th~ union .he won1d have to join with the other

members in tl1e act. o.rdinary clerk regardle. · iQif q:ua.Iificntion:,; more than J;t" • Ja~ 3 Mr. THOnlA '. l'ly impr · n is that the econd entence oof · enk R.1ld s:t m.r.raphf'l" a prmi.ded in tbe next U:ae.?

I wi1l state, ln .adMtion, thnt a clert: who shall be si'e.Ilogril}~be.r tbc para.graph is ample. at 1.800 was put in at the request of th comm1 sJ(}ne-rs. The. it !'ti~~RM..A.l~. I think t!Je ·econd sentence on page 8 cm·ers

commHtec at.~o provided a 1 Tk rrnd st 'DO!!l>.apller at -$l,.J • n.nd Mr. CALDER. ;r may a<ld that no menlber -of the :Ioca'l pollee your ommlttee 1m lJI'ovideQ for .a c1 rk an ten-ographer nt fo.rce, as far ns I know, bas -objected to this !laBgua ooe. $1.700. I am not objecting Ito th amount .f the alru:y~ bnt I do tllinl>: th~tt ynu are making 11 ·mistake in not dding aifte.r tbe .Mr_ SPENCER. Is it satis:fa tory to 'them~ worc1 • Clerk .., in Dne 2 in rackets the words 'who hall be )1r. CALDER. They ha'Ve not compla.in of it. a stenographer." As I. tated. tltut was J.'}Ut in .at 1.he request of Mr. SHERl\l.AN. The local police union has if.l Us orgat iza-thc comrui. sioners when tb 'bin rva in the e:nate before. I tion a prohibition of trike · It is merely a fraternaJ a ~ociathink if y-on oo not do that you will be paying a clerk mm·e tion as it is now, and in the event trikes were inclodea the 'omthan you-· are paymg- a ·clerk and stenographer. mls i ners ·of the District ·of Colnmtrla hav~ .full .power over

~lr. CAL'DER. My recol1ectlon .af the matter 1~ that we fol- them to enfor-ce sucb neces ary eli ctp'line a:s the .for e needs. Jowed the title of the c1erical forec now in th employ of the Mr. KffiBY. Mr. President, I ui.sb the chairman of the ompolice departmt>.nt of the citY~ I have .no objection to insl'.rting mittee 01' some member .of it wonld e~lain the general ffect the words "who shall be a stenographer," jf the Senator wlshe~ 1 of ·the bill, .th~ amount o'! sala:ry in:crease, ~lle necessary iller asc

of appropriatiOn to pay 1t, the runount of mcrease to the general 1 ·cla ses or divisions of the police for<'e, and whether that bears

to have tho e words jn~ertPd. Mr. CURTIS. I will read from the law: ClerK (who snail be a tenographer), $1,800. · a reasonable or ratable proportion to the amount of increa. e in

t11e salaries of other Federal employees in the .District of Oo-That was put in at tlle request of t'he •coll11ll1~slouers \Vben Jumbia.

we had the Di triet trpproprintion roll befOTe u. J!r. President, Mr. CALDER. Mr. President, if I may .reply to .the .Senator I move tO adtl aftP.r the word "' clerk !0 in line 2 tM wor<ls in from Arkan as, the bill incr~se tbe pay of aU the members of br cket "who shall be a stenographer/' . the police force here in the District. The committee believes

M1·. SHERMA1~. I ha.ve no .objection to it, 'Mr. President. !that this incTease is nece. ary. 'rhere has been no increase ~f The amendment to the amendment was agreed t-o. uny moment for a very long period. The members of the police :Yr. SPEl\"CER. I Shonl.d like to a k tbe chairman of the force are Tequired to be on duty every da.y in tile year except

cemmitt-ee 1f ,on .page '7 the tast Six words of qine 22 ·and the during their vacation period ; in fact, on many days they m·e first five words of line 23 were omitted as to whether the para- Qn duty 24 hours of the day. . graph would not be stronger ruJ.d .fairer? As ·t now reads it 'This bill increases tbe pay of the sup01intendent of police

ould be qnite 'POssible fo-r a member of the .force to belong to from $4,000 to $4.500; of the assistant superintendents from an organization which itself believed in and conn::;eled and ad· $2,.500 to $3,000; of the inspectors from $2,000 to $2,500; of the vised strikes f~r policemen, because the only pr.obibition is that · -captains from $2,000 to $2,500; of the police surgeons from $840 they shall not belong to any organization wllich is affiliated to $1,800; of the lieutenants of police from .$1,600 to $2,000; of with an organization that believes in strikes. There is nothin~ the sergeants from $1,400 to $1,800; of tbe privates of the third wbich '}>robfbits the !individual organization itself from 'Counsel- class from $1,320 to $1,660; of the privates of the second class ing .and advising and believing in strikes. I do not see any great ! from $1,200 to $1,560; and of the privates of the first class from harm in the .affiliation if the organization to which :the ']>olicema:n $1,080 to $1,460. Itim elf belong-s does not believe or conn el or 'COD ult with re- Mr. KIRBY. Tho e are the amounts proposed to ·be fixed by gard to strikes. the law for their pay. There is .no additional of $140 or • 240

Of cour c we 'all .ngree that policemen ougbt not to 'be in -a a .Year for them, is there? position to tie l1P the p.uolic seiTice by strikes, but I submit Mr. CALDER. Yes; they will get the $240 in additi{)n to sal'" iif the last ix words of line 22 -and the first 1ive words o-f line aries indicated. 2:1 were triekcn out the va:ragraph would b stronger 'and Mr. KIRBY. Tile salaries of these different official and fnir.er~ das~ of 'Officers arn •fixed at the amount indicated, and in

The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the :Senator tf.roo:n .Mis. addition to that they get $240 apiece? ...,ourii otl'er that as .an amendment to t'he ·amendment9 Mr- CALDER. Yes~ but the a:dditiona! $240, ·of course, is

· fi:.. SHERMAN. fr. Pr sident, ltbjs is .intended w .cover I -only temporary. The men in the <department receiving over . affiliaticm witb :t11.e Ameni.can Federation of Labor. The toea1 $2,500 a year will not ['eceive the so-ca1led war oonus. union of ,policemen i.n Washington .affiliated with 'the .A.meriean Mr. Presil'lent, the committee bas also provide<l in this bill a Fedt'z:ation :of Labor ·and received a ·charter. The American , methoo of appointment to the police force 'SQJ1lew'hat different

1919 .. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 8303 from that wllich has existed in the past. There has been some Mr. CALDER. Mr. President, the present amount they re· complaint in the District tfirough all administrations that men ceive· llardly enables them to pay the upkeep of their auto· were often appointed on the police force through favoritism. mobifes-; and i seems to me they ought to have the amount

We have written into this bill a civil·service provision which suggested by the committee. · will make it possible for every man to apply- for appointment Mr. SHERl\:f:AN: Mr. President, tlle testimony disclosed and to ha~e an equal chance for appointment. Tiiis applies that last year it cost $600 for n police surgeon to proYide also to promotions ur) to the grade or captailli Men may be ' automobile service alone; and the constant change in the designated to act as assistant superintendents- and inspectors medical and surgical force shows that it is .only the young from the rank of captain without taki.Jlg the examination for ,practitioner who is treating the policemen and firemen of this the promotion, and may thereafter be reduced to the ralrli: nf city. That ought not to be; for the men in the police and fire captain. departments arc entitled to as good medical and surgical sen··

Tl1e committee believes that these increases are-very essentia.l ice as is the private· citizen, and they cnn not get it under the at this time.. These men are required to pay for their own. uni- present rate o-f pay. fo1·ms; an.d, as r said a moment ago, they are required to be Mr. CURTIS. Mr. President. I agree with the Senator subject to cull at any moment, either night or day. The Sena- that that is so; but if we are going largely tG increase the tor from Arkansas [Mr . .K.lnBY] knows of the recent race difficul- salary of the police surgeons, then let us give them the right tie · here in the District, during the course of' which one police·· kind of a salary and provide tha1f they shall devote all of their mau was killed while performing hiS duty and several were time and attention to· the work of the police and fire depart· severely wounded, from which wounds, perhaps, they will never ments. KU Senators know, I think, that . where a man {)f:>.

recoyer. ,I"n these days of unrest and uncertainty, it seemed to votes part of llis tim to Government work and part of hi. the com..plittee exceedingly important that here at the Capital time to private practice he is not going to neglect his private city of the Nation there should exist good feeling on the part practi<;e to take care of the work be is called upon to per· of our police force toward the Government itself. It seemed form for the city. to us that the responsibility was quite up to Congress to see M1·. SHERMAN. 1\fi:. President, it amounts to this: If that the men. who are the· guardians of the· Capital of this great we ask them to devote all their time· to the work, we can not Government under all the circumstances should be properly secure the services of physicians and surgeons in Washing. paid. The committee are sb·ongly of this opinion ; and we boDe ton for this character of work unless we pay them from that there will be no objection to the enactment of the bill $6,000 to $8,000 a year. We are getting in many respects- a

l\fr. CURTIS. Mr. President, I notice that the only consider· good medical service as Washingt(}n affords, because of the ~ble increase in the biU is- in the salary of. police surgeons, who fact that the police surgeons are allowed to engage in outare now getting ·$840: The House bill allowed them $1,400; side practice; they come- in and: gi\e to the members of the which would be-a- substantial increase, tlut-tfie s-~nate bill make~r police force and to the firemen. just as conscientious and- able their salary $1,809. That is an. increase of nearly $1,000-m:ore service as the priYate patient receives; but the surgeons can than double. Can the Senator give the reason for that great only afford to ao that fur $1,800 a year when they are per~ increase? mitted' to pursue thefr practice outside. I would not, how·

1\lr. CALDER. Mr. President, the police surgeon ai·o act as erer, make any especial contest o-ver this matter, :for I wish surgeons for the fire department. They are required to pass to. get the bill through. upon the physical qualifications of policemen and1 firemen when Mi'. JONES of Washington. Mr. President, I will ask tlle they are appointed, and they are also required to take care of cllairman of the · committee if it is not a fuct that the sur· them to a. certain extent and · to perform other seevice. Sur- geon.s- give· preference to tfie policemen and firemen'! geons pe-rforming like duties fu othet~ citie are rec~ivillg from M'-r. SHERMAN. Yes, sir; they are required to do- so. $2,500 to $4,000. Mr. JONES of Washington. And if they neglect any prac·

l\fr. THOMAS. 1\lr. President, may I ask the Senator if tice, they must neglect their pri-va.te practice. these police Slrrgeons ha\e any outside practice of their own? 1\fr. EHER~fA1 . Tfiat is true.

Mr. CALDER. Yes; I believe they have. 1\fr. CURTIS. 1\Ir. President, the subcommittee of the -~D-Mr. THOl\fAS. So that they have an income independent of propriations Committee having jurisdiction. of tlle District of

their official salary? "Columbia appropriation bill has gone into this question a num~ 1\fr. CALDER. They ha-v.e, 1\fr. President. ber of time·. I· served on that committee during my previous Mr. CURTTS. Mr. Pre-sident, my recollection is that in the service in the Senate as well as during my present service

hearings before Ule sulJcommittee on the District appropriation and never in:. my recollection has. any member of the board bill the showing was tllat tl1ese men did have an outside prac· of eoiD..ID.iSsioners asked for any such! increase for these offitice, and for that reason the Committee on Appr.opriatio.rrs in cia.ls. The members of the subcommittee, I think, will sub· considering the District of eolumbia appropriation bill refused stantiate 'IVhnt r say thnt in tllis instance· no showing was to increase tlleir salary- o--rer and aflove $840. I think if these made to the ubcommittee having charge of this- bill tliat surg oTIS are going to be permitted to have outside practice, would justify the ctving of more than what was- carried in the large increase. here proposed. is not justified; and, if' it is the bill as reporte-d fo aml pa setr by the House of Reprein order, I am going to move to retluce· the· n:mmmt from $~800 entatives. to $1,400, being_ the amount fix-ed by· the otber Hou e.. 1\fr.. SPENCER. Mr. President, I fail to. see how any city

1\f.r. SPENCER. 1\.fi·. President-- coulcL expect to ecure· the services· of competent physicians to The PRESIDING" OFFICER: Does the Senator from Kim- care f.Ql: over 900 policemen and in.· the neighborhood' of 400

sas yield to the Senator from 1.\fissouri? firemen., lm.ving a. nctor clafm on their services, for- less than Mr. CURTIS. Certainly. $1,800 a . year. I think t11e compensation. at $f,800 iS:l'idicul.orrsly

· 1\fr. SPENCER. Under the Housa bill carrying· a salary of small. $1,400 the surgeons- were assigned' onlY to police duty, while in Mr .. CA.LDER. Xfr: P.re ·ident, if the Senator will nermit me tlie • 'erurte bilt . they are assigned both to the· pulice and fire in New Yo-rk 0ity to-day· tfie-· police· surgeons- are paid $3 500 ' department~ Does not- tl1-e Senator think that that mukes some in Philadelphia, 4,000·; in St~. Louis, ~1,800 to $3",0CJ; fiT Pit~ difference-? bru·gh, $2,6TO·; i'n Detroft, $2,000· to· $2,250 ; in· Los Angeles, . 1\-Ir. CU:W.riS·. No; because the;y will only lla\e to perform $1,650,. t<J ~400-; in ~ew Orlean "' $2,300; and· in Jersey City; the :-;arn-e- Cfutie · required or them.. heretofore_ I understand· $2;800. ' theT is nothing. addej to their duties. Of' com:se·, if it is pro- · Mr. BALL. And in Wilmlngton., Del., they· receive $2,500. posed t<r reduce the: nmnb.er of surgeons and require. them to Mr. CALDER The· : .:nator from Dela'\V!ll'e says- that in. wu. de-v:ote alL their.. tiine to the public. service, then $1,800 is not mfugton they are paid 2,500; and Wlfmington is a city· much too much; llut if these surgeons-nncf there are fouc. of them- smaller than. Washington. are going to be nermi.tted to enjoy outside. practice, snrelr they Mr. WATSON. How many of them are there in this city? ougllt net: to- be given this increase of nearly :r thousand' dol- Mi': C.A:LD=n. FOu.r: la'l'S, to' wfilli.L wilr be rufded $240, making· the salary or-each Mr: POMERE.r~E. Mr. Pre·'l(]ent .. it seems to me fi·om. wllat .orre ometliing, over $2:ooo a.. yen:r. I have. Iieanl that file "white wings-n are. pa1.d. as: muclt as- the · Jill·. PO'MERENE. Mr.: ¥resident, . are they not requir-ecl also police su.r.geon · of tb.i~ clty; and· r: Iim.-re a faint notion that to an:weremer~ calls throughout the city? where a man ha Pl'eparedhimself:"fol: ·thc practice. ot me1iicine

Mr. e~. I crrn nut say as to ili.at. he ought a.'t Ieust to ha.Ye a compensnt'i:on: in h-eeping with such 1\Ir. CALDER. I : will say the superihtendent of poHce in- f attainments.

form me•tliat the wen:.. - ~Ir- THOMAS. M'r. Rre ·ident, if the notice surgeens were . 1\ir. POMER-ENE. I liave · so understood; :IDcl tlleL-e is very [ required· to · give all. of thell' time to- the- police: practice·· therefrequent occasions for tlleil" being called on such ser\'ice. I could be no CJ.nestiC:m al.)ont the fn....cmce of" the comment, m~de by

.., It ,

·83Q4 CONGRESSIONAL JtECOR~SENATE~, -~/· NovE3IBER 11,

the Se11a.tut' from Ohio; lmt we have -not yet ascertained what theit .OUL'iue incomes are. They may, be very large. - I am qJiltl! willing, fgr the purpose .of getting tbis .bill disposed .of, particularly on account ·of the admirable arrangement it makes of the p-olice force,. to go as far as any man in supporting the bill that bas been re:loi1:ell bv the committee; .but if it be true th::.t these surgeon.· have a good practice outside, then surely the compen ·ation whi ll i:s provided by this bill may be more than generous. Ho\ve-ver, as to that I do not know; a great deal would depeud .upon the extent of their practice.

I think the Senator having the blll in charge made the statement that thi. work was being performed largely by the younger men. I ·hould like to ask some member of the committee if .he can give the Senate any information as to the approximate amount of t• ~ incomes of the pollee surgeons de-rived from their private practice. .

1\Ir. CALDER. I do not think that information can be furui. bed by any member· of the committee. I was chairman of the suli>committ e wWch .pre-pared the bill. - 7e did not make that iflquiry; but the chairmau of the Boa1·d of District Commissioners ruH.l the superintendent of police informed us that they had difficulty in keeping good men; they thought that they were much underpaid ; that they had private practice, of course, but they gave much of their time to the duties devolving upon their official position; and that it cost them alone nearly all they were receiving for their automobile expenses.

:Mr. SHEPPARD. Mr. President, I suggest to the Senator n·om Kansas that he allow this matter to go to conference as it now stands, where it may, be worked out satisfactoiily and the points raised here can be thoroughly examined. ·

Mt·. CURTIS. Mr. President, I do not like to oppose this measure, but it does seem to me that if the police surgeons had been entitled to this increase some showing to that effect would have been made befo-re ow· committee previous to this time. I think that it is a very large increase. · It seems to me that an increase from $840 to $1,400, to which would be added the $240 bonus, making $1,640 in all, is sufficient, and I am going-to ask for a vote on my amendment to reduce the amount from $1,800 to $1,400.

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The question is on the motion of the Senator from Kansas. on page 6, line 12, to· strike ·out " $1,800" and insert " $1,400." [Putting the question.]

The amendment to the amendment was rejecteu. Mr. MYERS. l\Ir. President, I offer the amendment 'vhicll I

send to the desk. The PRESIDING OFFICER. The amendment tc.; the amend-

ment will be stated. r_rlle SECRETARY. It is propo. ed to athl, at the end Of the bill,

the following : No organization . of governmental employees shall ::Lffiliatc with uny

outside. ot·ganization which uses the strike ot• which assists any other organization in the use of the strike in the adjustment of grievances.

llr . .1\IYERS. Mr. President, the bill as reported I think effectiv'ely provides that members of the Metropolitan pollee force shall not be affiliated with any superior organization or union of labor, or any organization empowered to counsel or aid or abet in strikes.

I have examined the provision put into the bill by the committee, which covers that subject, and I am fairly well satisfied with it. I believe that it will be effective. In fact, the policemen of the District, I think, have done the graceful and proper thing by voluntarily severing their connection with the American Federation of Labor, and I give them credit for it. They appear to have been willing to do so and to have done so when advised by Members of Congress that it was against the sentim~nt of a large element_ of Congress. a~d when shown that it was in conflict with what Congress believed to be their paramount duty to the Government. I am well enough atis:fied on that score. I think the committee has done its duty properly, and I think the policemen have yielded to the sentiment of the committee gracefully and properly.

My amendment, however, goes to the affiliation of any or all employees of the Government with higher m·ganizations than their own unions, composed of their own associates. It goes to the question of any organization of Government employees affiliating with the American Federation of Labor or any other superior organization. I believe the same reasons which militate against that affiliation as to the policemen of the District__in large measUI'e militate against any character of organized Govel'nment employees affiliating with a higher body of organized labor which has claims upon them which may conflict with their duty to the Government and with the claims of the Government upon them. I believe the whole system is· bad: I believe that all of the reasons which go to prevent policemen from affiliating in .that capacity apply with orne measure of force to all Q-o\ernment employees.

Mr-. -SHERMAN. Mr. President--The- PRESIDING OFFICER. - Does the Senator from l\Ion

tana yield -to -the Senator from Illinois? Mr. MYERS. I yield with pleasure. Mr. SHERMAN. I will say to the Senator from Montana

that I do not believe the amendment is necessary, in view of the wording, but I am willing to accept it.

Mr. HARRISON. Mr. President, I make a point of oruer against the amendment. My ppint of order is that it appJie ~ to employees of the Government service who do not belong to the Metropolitan police force who might belong to the Post Office Department or any other department of the Gm·ern-ment. ·

This uill touches the Metropolitan police force. It has gone Yery far in safeguarding the Metropolitan police force; but it does not seem to me that we ought to go out into a field of speculation and apply something here that we are not a11pJy:i11g to all the other employees of the Gove1·nment. .

Mr •. MYERS. There is no speculation at all about it. The amendment is aimed at just what the Senator from Missi. s:ippi says it is apparently aimed at. ·

Mr. HARRISON. That is the re~son why I rual<e the point of order.

l\:lr. MYERS. That is its very purpo e; but I contenu that the point of order is not well made. This is not an appropriation bill. General legislation may -be put upon this bill. It i · not an appropriation bill, and I know of uo rule which prevents general legislation being offered as an amendment to any hill other than an appropriation bilL

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The ChaiT is ready to l'ule upon the . point of order. As tllis is not an appropriation bill, and as the title of the bill is broad in its nature, specifical1y stating " for other purpo es, ' the Chair overrules the point of order.

Mr. MYERS. Then, I will address a few remarks to the amendment. I shall try to do so at not too great length.

Mr. THOMAS. Mr. President, the chairman of the committe has accepted the amendment.

Mr. MYERS. Then, I will leave it to tbe chairman, he haYing accepted it.

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senate will have to pa . . · upon the amendment.

Mr. MYERS. Then. as the Senate has to act upon it, I sllou.ld like to say a few words further. I hall try to do . ·o uot at any great length.

This is a subject which ha. · attracted the attention of t11 heads of the Government departments for a long time. It lla. · engaged their earnest thought and consideration. It has engaged the consitleration of Congress to a very great degree; and I believe that the practice wWch has grown up of employees of the Government in the vmious departments forming them ely .' into a union or an association among themselves and ihen affiliating with the American Federation of Labor is a had practice, bad in principle, and is detrimental to the best interests of the Government, and the best interests. of the employee . . It undoubtedly affords an opportunity to some extent for a dual allegiance. It undoubtedly affords a field for a dividert allegiance by those who ru·e employed by the Government, ,..,-llo owe all of their time and labor and efforts, within hour · prescribed fo~· them, to the Government, and owe all of their u-uty and their allegiance to the Government.

There is no doubt about the fact that the American Feueration of Labor, or any other central or superior body of organized labor, clailns some allegiance from the members of its subordinate branches. It not only expects it and requires it but in many instances, I am sure, exacts it; and, so far as Government employees ru·e concerned. wherever it does, it is almo t sure to go counter to the allegiance and the duty which employees owe to the Government. It is for the Members of Congress to say whether or not they want this widespread practice continued, and whether or not they approve of it. If they approve of it, if they believe it is right, if they uphold it, now is the time and here is the opportllllity to give it their official anction and approval

I do not believe there is .any valid objection to employees of a uepartment of the Government forming an association of their own. Take, for instance, any department of the Government, say the Post Office Department. I do not believe there is any objection to its employees forming an association or a union of their own members, within their own department, and consulting togethe1· and meeting and devising plans for their own good ancl the advancement of their own interests, and in every legitimate way looking after their own welfare. I do not · believe anybody has any serious objection to that. The time was when there _was objection maue to that privilege, but I do not lJel ieYe the lleacls of the depnrtments no'Y object to it.

1919. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 8305

I believe it is a reasonaule and legitimate sphere of ac1:ion in which Government employees may 'act. I believe they have a right to meet once a month, o-r as often as they may desire, in a common meeting place, as an association or union, and to elect their officers, have by-laws, adopt res(}lutions, and to take other steps to look after their welfare and protect their interests; and, so far as I know, there is no longer any substantial objection to members of those asSQciations or delegates from tho e departmental unions appearing before committees of Oongress ·and urging increases of salaries, or better working conditions, or reasonable working hours, or urging anything tliat appertains to tbeir interests.

I think by <'ommon consent it is admitted that Government employees may .have that privilege. At any rate, they exercise it, and I see no objection to it. In industrial life I think that organized labor has its proper place. I believe that it may, .within legitimate botmds, serve a good purpose, and has served many good purposes, and has accomplished much for its members. That is al! right in the industrieS of the country, private enterprise, but when you come to say that Government employees should not only form their own departmental associations or unions, but that they should then affiliate with the American Federation of Labor or any other higher or superior or general body of organized labor, I think you are treading upon dangerous ground. The Government occupies a diJierent sphere from private enterprise. If Government employees affiliate with a superior organization, they are bound to get to the point soine time where there will be conflicting claims on tho ·e employees and conflicting interests.

It is said that the unions of Government employees which are affiliated with the American Federation of Labor have nonstrike charters, but there is nothing to prevent them from :amending those charters and malting them so tba t strikes would be permis.· ible.

I have hero a clipping from a recent is ue of the Washington Po ·t which I will read. It is a·s follows: ·

1\1 ild rmnblings of many mo.nths of a pos ible strike of union postal employee!' to bring about improved working conditions and increased wages were quieted finally yesterday when tabulation of the referendum vote of the members of the National Federation of Post Office Clt>Tks resulted favorably for retention of the "no-strike" cla·usc in the organiza Uon's constituti.on.

Th result, which had been in proce.ss of polling slncc the middle of September, stood 9,460 against the clause--

Against the nonstrike clause-and 10,389 in favor. A two-thil'ds yotc is required to change the federation constitution.

'Ille:re was only a smail majority of le~s than a thousand which wu · in favor of keeping the nonstrike clause in the charter. Ne.~t time an election i · held a majority may vote to tak~ the non trike. clause out of the charter, and a.t som~ subsequent eJection the requi-red t\Yo-tbirds may vote to take it out.

1\lr. KING. Mr. President--Til PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the Senat(}r from Mon

tana yield to the Senator from Utah? 1\lr. MYERS. With pleasru·e. l\Jr. KING. I uude1.·stood the .figures jus.t read by the Sena

tor to indic.n,te that a majority voted in favor of eliminating the nonstrike clause-10,000 plus as .against 9,000 plus-but that the articles of incorporation, -o.r their by-laws, or thei-r constitution, or wbate:\7er you call it, required two,thirds in order to -eliminate the nonsttike clause, and, not getting the two-thirds, of -course, the proposition did not carry;· but that a majority of the organization favored strikes.

1\.li'. 1\lYERS.. I do not get that llilde.rstanding of it. It says the yote stood 9,4.60 against the clause and 1{),389 in favor of it. I suppose that means in favor of keeping the nonstrike clausea nmj01ity of less than a thousand. .At another >election, and I suppose they can always have another one, if not this year, some other year:, a majority might vote to t:a.k-e out this clause, and some other time two-thirds might vote to take it out.

There is no need of going into any extended argument .on this. It is an old question, and ,senators certainly must have their minds made up, and if Senators want to give their stamp :of approval to the affiliation of Government employees with the American Federation of Labor, or any other higher or superio1· body of .organized labo-r, now -is the time aBd here is the opportunity to put their stamp of approval upon it. If you do not choose to give it your approval, you have an opportunity of :withholding that approval and .registering your dissent.

I also read in the Washington Post in the last few days an item which said that the local labor orgnnizations ,of the District of 'olumbia had taken up · a collection of quite a cnnsidern.ble sum of money :mel sent it to Pittsburgh to be used for the benefit of til e strikin~ coal minel's .

:i\Ir. THO:\L\::-;. Coal miner~_; <•1' ._· teel wol'l;;:ers?

Mr. :MYERS. I think it was the coal miner . It was only in · the last few da"YS that the article appeared. · It may ba\e beeu the steel strikers, but that is .not my recollection. I hav~ not 'f:l.t'e clipping with me. Whatever it may be, I have no doubt thai some emproyees of the Government who are ·members of toC:I.l organizations of the American Federation -of Labor contributed, directly or indirecUy, to these Strike benefits: If they did ·not · go right down into their pockets and get the money and give it as a direct donation, the money was undoubtedly taken out of the lo-cal treasury, and was contributed in the way of dues from all of the members, and went to the maintenance ·of a strike wllich has upset the industrial life of this country and worked inca1-culable harm. If it went to the 'Coal strikers, as is my impression, then it went to those who were engaged 'in what the Pre ident of the United States and a court of this country haYe declared an unlawful combinati(}n against 'the law and against .the welfare and interests of the country and of the -Gov~rnment from which these employees ·are drawing their wages and deri-ving their support.

I have here a clipping from this morning's Wa bington ""Po t; which says:

Declaring a grave misunderscimding exists about the requests -or .th striking coal miners 'for improved conditions, the Central Latior "Union meeting last night in Musicians' Hall, 1006 E Street NW., indorsed the attitude of the American Federation of Labor in owosing the injunction to restrain officials of the United Mine Workers !rem carry-· ing out the strike.

'l'he resolution recites that the injunction restrains "a movement which has for its object only improved conditions for the miners." Its effect is to lend the moral and financial support of the central body to the miners, expressed through the parent body of organized labor~

The central body is made up of delegates from 99 local unions, which include approximately 100,000 workers in the District. .District and Federal Government workers are included in this number; but in their charters are included nonstrike 'clauses, so that they can not be counted in the number likely ·to withdraw !rom work in "Sympa-thetic strikes. ·

While Government employees may not be expected to withdraw from their labors and go on sympathetic strikes, yel they can contribute their money; if they are so disposed, to ikeep up a strike which the President of the United States and rt court of the land have declared to be unlawfuL

I was speaking of the postal employees of the Government. I understand that all the employees of the Post Office Department are not affiliated with the American Federation of· Labor. The American Federation of Post Office Clerks, about wlii.Ch 'I have just read a newspaper clipping, is affiliated with the Ame.r~ ican· Federation of Labor. The Association of Letter ·CarrierS, I understand, is not. In the last few weeks a number ·of members of an organization which is not affiliated with the Ame-1·ican Federation of Labor, the Association of Letter Carriers, have told me .o-rally, .and have written me in letters that I .ha¥e received, that the American Federation o! Lahor for years past, through its agents, has made every effort to get the entire body of the post-office employees of the co1.mtry to affiliate with the .American Federation of Labor, .and that its .agents have promised the aid and assistance of the Amelican Federation of Labor in getting higher wages and better working ~onditions and hours, and even have offered help in case of a strike, if it took that to get what the postal employees might demand of the Government.

I am told that members of the As:-::ociation of Letter Carrier~ have resisted those overtures, but that the m~mbers of the other association of postal employees did not, and that the members of v:a.rious departmental agencies mve not resisted ·those -evertures, and that most of them ha\e :affiliated themselves with the American Federation of Laboi.:. I am told by Government employees, :both orally and in writing, that the result of tbe demands of the railroad employees of three years ago, which secured the enactment of the Adamson law, has been .held up to Go-vernment employees as an instance -of what they could do by a.tfiliating with n superior body of organized labor.

I have been told tha..t the enactment of tne Adamson law has been held up to nearly all of the Government employees who have formed local unions .an.d nssociations among themselves as an inducement to -affiliate with a superior body of labm~. in order to get the force and influence of that higher body of labor behind all of thelr demands, and thri..t the promise has been made that in doing so they would get the full power and force and influence of all organized labor 1n the United States back of their demands. They haTe been told, I am informed, that that force was so great that Congress dare not ~resist it, and that if they would affiliate with some of .these higher and parent bodies they would in that way force Congress to give them whatever they might want, within any imaginable scope, in the way of increased wages.

This question bas been before Congress for a. long time, and I believe there are r.ensons now which are more accute thnn any

.

8306 CO .... Gl{ESSION.A_L RECORD-SENATE. ~0\'L.fBEll 11,

that have en'T before existed why Congre"s hould register its will in this matter. I believe it has been brought to the attention of Congress by events within the last 'few weeks with more force than en~r before. I belieYe the main object of the affiliation of local -unions and associations of Government em: ployees with higher bodies of labor is to keep over Congress an implied threat of .a strike in case Congress does not grant all of the demands made upon it by those associations. , ·

As I say, unconnected with any higher association of labor, I can see no rea onable objection to these local associations of Government employees amongst themselves. I believe Congress is perfectly willing to have their delegates and representatives come to the committees of Congress and to have committees hear their complaints. But when you go higher and put a more powerful infiuence back of them, one not connected with the Government, it can have none other t11an a sinister meaning, an implication that if Congress does not grant demands there will some time be a strike of Government employees, with a 'a t power back of it, which may make the strike successful.

There have been trike attempteu in the Post Office Department in the last few years. They have not beeu unknown, and they ha\e not been succes ful; that is, they ha\e been of ~hort duration. But they arc merely evidences of what is in the minds of some of the moving spirits of organization among the po.st-oftlce employees, and indications of what the Congress may look for -ill the future unless some check is put 11pon this tendency.

I do not care to detain the Senate any longer. I think every Senator here has his views about these matters. 'l'he hour is getting late, and the attendance is smalL But I m-ge tlJ.e adoption of this amendment. I believe it would sen·e a good purpo e, and would be in the interest of good ervice to the Government and conducive to the welfare of the entire people.

Mr. HARRISON. Mr. President, I am opposed to the amendment proposed by the Senator from Montana to the amendment of the committee. I do rrot think it has any business in the consideration of this particular bilL This is u bill relating to the Metropolitan police force of the District of Columbia. It proposes to increase their pay. The commlttee very · wisely placed a provision in the bill which covers the point argued by the Senator from Montana, so far as it touches the Metropolitan police force.

The amen<lrnent to the urnem.lment is very far-re~<.:hing. lt is a most important proposition. It shqultl not IJc paSl ed hurriedly, with about a dozen l\iembers of the Senate on the floor. It provides that-

No organization of governmental employees shall affiliate with any outside l?rga!lizatlon which uses t~e strike or. which assists any other orgamzahon in the use of the stnke in the adJustment of grievances.

I do not know why the Senator did not provide a penalty for violation. The amendment, so far as the wording goes is merely an eA}Jression of Congress as to how it stands on Government employees belonging to some organization that might affiliate with some other organization that might orne time employ the strike.

As to whether any Government employees ougllt to belong to a labor organization or not, I care not to uiscuss. The postal employees organized themselves for their own protection. I doubt wh~ther they would have ever received the increased pay that they did receive recently in a bill which was passed through Congress if they had not organized anu brought public sentiment, by the presentation of facts, to bear upon Oongress, which gave them the relief. This amendment would affect those employees. It seems to me that it would have been more proper for the Senator from Montana to have offered an amendment touching the employees of the Post Office Department affiliating with labor organizations that might have caused a strike when the postal bill was up · for consideration. If the amendment to the amendment is adopted it will affect all those employees. If it should be adopted it would affect every employee who belongs to labor organizations and affiliates with som~ outside organization, who works in a munitions factory that belongs to the Government, and every employee who works in a navy yarrl who might belong to one of these org:inizations; aye, it even goes further than that. It affects the rrien who are employed on the railroads of the country which are now under Go\ernment ownership or operated by the Government. It is far-reaching in its effect, and I think we ought to reject the amendment in the consideration of this particular bill. I hope the Senator will withdraw his amendment at this time.

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The question is on agreeing to the amendment offei·ed by the Senator from Montana [l\fr. l\1YER ] to .tbe nmendmen~ of the committee~ • -

On a division the amendment to the arueu<lmeul " 'a.· agi~t.>tl to. Mr. MYERS. I offer another amendment to the amendment. The PRESIDING OFFICER. The ~enator f1·om l\iontann

offers an amendment, whlch the Secretary will . tate. The SECRETARY . . To :(oUow the amendment to the amendm,~n t

la. t agreed to, and to be known as section G :

SEc. G. Th_at n~ w_oman shall be employed n or iu ouue<:tion wllh the Metropolitan .POlice force in any other than a clerical capacity. or shall do in conn_ectlon therewith any other than clerical worl< and any woman workmg on or in connection witl:} the pollc force con'trary hereto shall receive no compensation.

Mr. :MYERS. l\lr. Pr sident, I unuer taucl tbat there hag grown up in the Distrirt a system of putting a number of women on the police force, who are curried as policemen, with nothing to differentiate their duties from those of ordinary 11olicemeu. It i a practice in which I do not belie\e.

I know there is a belief throughout the country lhat everJ· city ought to have a few women on the police force that the· hould have peculiar duties as igneu to tbem but I' do not be

lieve in putting women on police forces. I d~ not believe it i a work for which women are fitted. I think it is a waste of money. I think it i. a departure from a long-establi hed iden which has good reason behind it, that men only nre fitted f01~ l)olice duty. · There is a tenuency nowauays to have ""·omen do everything

that men do, to invade every fielcl- of activity anu industrial employmeut 1n which men ·are engaged. I believe that some discrimination should be u ed. I do not belie>e women should be barred from any field of activity for which they are fitted or from any employment which they can do as well as men but I do not believe women can serve -as policemen as well as' men or that they are fitted for the uuties. I think that God has cr~ated them for other purpose~, to look after men in other way than by being policemen.

A few \Veeks ago I clipped an article from the Washington Post which relates to women police here in the District and I a~ go.ing to read a ~art of it. It explains the ground' of my obJection to the sernce of ·:omen on the police force in th District. I read :

l! our policewomen are specifically authorized by appropriation tmt there are at least 13 women erving not as polief'women but as p~lieemen,_ anti being pa~d from the appropria~on for policemen, and if they jg:~~ue to ser>e :;ust that many men w1U be kept out of jobs on the

Mrs. Mina C. Van Winkle, of Newark, N. ;r., who wa made chief of the bureauon February 14, 1919, holds the rank and draws the pay of a. first-class detective sergeant, and employs under her at dlfferPnt time~ special women investigators to visit the dance halls, theater , parks, and other places of amusement and recreation. .

.Among the involved du~les of the members of this bureau drawing po1ke pay but hardly available for riot duty as set forth by Mrs Van Winkle may be cited : , . ·

'' Psychopathic and physical examinations with the view to secuxin ..,. IJroP.er disposition of the case and treatment. .,

' Thorough investigation to find all negative and po itive facts in the case in order to arrive at the inner mental life of the girl, so that intelligent help can be extendPd."

An example of how this hlgiler police duty works out was furnished recently by the case of Grace Raezer, sa.id by her mother to be lU years old.

This girl, whose brother, Sergt. ;Tohn Raezer, was ki11ed in Franee and who e father was serving as a liE>utPnant in the .American Expeditionary Forces in Fra~ce, was living with bet: mother, Mrs. Stella Buck, in the northwest section of the city. The girl. drew $57 a month pension from the Government through the cleath of her brother and also received remittances from- her father, while her mother, divorced and remarried. was employed as a housekeeper in the home of a prominent resident of the city and aided in the care of his two motherless children. The daughter frequently accompanied and assisted her mother in the c.are of th~> houl"e and children.

One night, as the daughter lingered downstairs after returning home with her motller, she was approached by a strange woman, who said:

"You are under arrest, so come along quietly." The woman was · Miss Ethel McQuiston, attachecl to the women's

bureau of the .police department. · . The girl called to her mother, who followed and demanded to know

why her daughter was arrested. She was told that if she didn't keep quiet she. too. would be placed uuder arrest, and the daughter wa warned against talking to her mother. , · ; . Miss Raezer was taken to the house of detention, stripped of hel" rings

and jewelry, and later taken to police headquarters, wbcre she was brought before Mrs. Van Winkle and otber members of the bureau for examination.

There, accoruing to her mother, she was subjected to a "third degree" of cross-examination that ;would have shocked the oldest offender in a prison for totally depraved women. The girl recoiled from tbe questions that were shot at bpr like blows from a whip and was in a deplorable state when finally told, without any word of explanation, that she was free to return to her home.

-Inspector Burlingame, who was on duty at headquarters at the time, said: "There is not a word against the charaC'ter of the girl." .

Maj. Pullman, when asked about the case, was reported ns saying: -"I know nothing about it. It was one of those cases handled by the

woman's division." Later, when pressed for some statement about· the case, he is quoted

as saying: "No harm has · been done, and forget about it."

lt)19 . CONGRESSION .A.L l{ECOllD-SEN ATE. -8307 . '' :.\ly daugh,~er has . n~>er been .~wa~ from ~e fo~ one night since I' : Mr. P!·esiuent, I urn se1:ious in calling attention to th~ par-she was. born, said Mrs.. Buck.. IIer reputation is as sacr~ to ~e tlcular mstance because mdependent of any other conSldera-ns my life. I propose to see tbJii matter through and make 1t certam . . . ' . that the police can never again subject a child to such atrocious 1 two, the effictency With which the crowds were handled and the suffering without the . slightest cause." I traffic was conducted by this woman was unusual. · It was

Former 'enator Joseph W. Bailey, of Texas, who knew the girl's equal to the best 'n the ·ete ·a ser rice m· Ne ;v York City . father, was appealed to, and is said to have failed to receive any satis- 1 . ~ 1 n v ~ ' . · . ' factory explanation of her treatment up to this time. . But I shall not detarn the Senate upon the subJeCt. I do not

:Most of the women who are fill~ng policemen's jobs jn the women'~ think we ought to place this limitation upon the power of the bureau ha>e. the ran~ of class 1 pr1vates1 and. the month_Iy pay roll for 1 chief of police and I should dislike very much ·to see the duties tho bureau 1S approx:unately $1,300. It IS s::ud that MaJ. Pullman· and _ ., ' . . ' . . . . Commissioner Brownlow are so well pleased with the work of the or women as policewomen ctrcumscnbed In this City as the bnrean that they intend to increase its personnel to 30 to do the work amendment would circumscribe them. · · outlined by Mrs. Van '\Yinkle, in part, as follows : . :i\!r CALDER Mr President I hope the amendment of the Preventi>e: SuJ?ervislOn and general survey of mones, (lance halls, · · ~ · . ' . . .skating rinks, railway stations, parks, large public gatherings, wel- Senator from Montana Will uot prevail. From my observation, fare work by special workers, >oluntary probation, findin~ positions while there may base been some rare cases which might justify for girls, advi. ing as to associates, amusements, etc. •t· is · th · th · f th li f · · The co~-rectlve and o-eneral police woi·k are along the same lines. ~I'l lC m~ m e mmn e service 0 WO!'fien . on e :po ce orce

~Irs. Van Winkle offered her serrices free about October 1, she says, In Washington has been excellent. I live m the c1ty of New lly advice of her friends, who instanc<:<} alle~ed conditions amo~g York, where there are over 50 policewomen. The police comwomen war workers here,. as well as resideD~ g.trls. S!Jc says she 18 missioner there recently in discussing the matter with me said not in the work for " amusement," but that 1t 1s her hfe work. She . places her own car and chau1l'eur at the disposal of members of her they were one of the best arms of the service. They are used !Jureau, and as she does not need the salary of $2,040 which she draws, to detect crime where men can not be sent. Every important 1s s~d to devote most of it to the work of the bureau. dry goods store in the country has women detectives. They can

There mu t be some truth in that article. I have never seen detect crime on the part of women and also on the part of men it -denied. It was published in a reputable paper. If there were in some instances quicker and better than can men. Here in I.io truth in it, a re porisible paper would hardly have dared to the city of 'Vashington we have eight police matrons, who publish it. - would certainly be discharged if the amendment of the Senator

This is only one of a number of articles of like kind and from Montana [Mr. :\IYERS) should prevail~ I think :orne character that I have seen in the city press. I have seen re- wom{'n are excellently adapted to police work, arid I think it cited a number of other instances of the women's bureau of the would be a mistake for this amendment to· be agreed to police force in the District which are \~ry analogous to this, The PRESIDING OFFICER. The question before the Senate aild I am o·pposed to all such doings. For that reason I offer the i · on agreeing to the amendment of the Senatoi' from l\Ioiltnna amendment to the amendment. [1\fr. MYERS] to the amendment of the committee.

Mr. THO~IAS. l\Ir. President, I supported the first amend- The amendment to the amendm{'nt wa.s rejected. ment offered by the Senator from Montana, but I am obliged to 1\fr. HARRISON. Mr. President, I merely want to ask the ,·ote against this one. The use of women upon the police forces Senator from New York or the chairman of the committee a of the different cities of the country is a somewhat recent inno- question touching the firemen of the Distri<'t of Columbia. - I vation, but it has proven very beneficial. There are certain notice that this bill provides increased pay for the member: of phases of lawbreaking, certain cases of delinquency, particu- the Metropolitnn police force, and I desire to ask if it is conltirly among young girls, which can be reached and prevented templated to bring out a bill at any date ili the near future by a vigorous policewoman in many cases where the interfer- providing increased pay for the firemen in the District of ence of a -man would be embarrassing, if not unsuccessful. Columbia? · I have no doubt of the truth of the incident which the Sena- 1\fr. SHERl\fAJ.~. Such a bill is now in tlie subcommittee, and tor has called to the attention -of the Senate, but if a system at any early date it "·m, I think, be reported favorably, so is to be repudiated because of such an incident what would far as I am authorized to stat{', I will say to the Senator from become of the police systems of America? In the adrriinistra- New York. tion of the duties of a policeman it is a common thing for pri- l\Ir. H.A.RRISON. I ha\e in my band a bill which was intro-vute rights to b{' invaded and a great deal of offense given, and duced in the other House touching the pay of firemen. justly given. Unfortunately those things are inseparable from Mr. CALDER. The bill has passed the House. the enforcement of law and order; but there is always a remedy Mr. HARRISON. It has passed the other House? in the shape of a suit for damages against the offending officer, Mr. CALDER. Yes. who may also be disciplined and removed if he or she is proven Mr. HARRISON. And the subcommittee is now consideri.n<r

· to have been guilty of any infraction of duty. the question in the Committee on the District of Columbia? I think it would be a great mistake to deprive the authorities Mr. SHERMAN. Yes; and it may be that within a week the

having charge of police affairs and also charged with the dUty bill will be reported to the Senate. of enforcing the law and order in the city of Washington of the Mr. HARRISON. It would seem to me just us important to right to employ efficient women in such number as may be increase the pay of the firemen as to increase the pay of the necessary for looking after such phases of police duty as are policemen of this city. peculiarly within their province. Mr. KING. 1.\fr. President, I desire to ask the chairman of the

I may allude to a successful instance of the ilischarge of the committee the reason for increasing the compensation of the duties of a policewoman as an offset to the case to which the superintendent of police from $4,000 to $4,500, particularly in Senator from Montana has called attention. About two months view of the fact; as I am advised, that that official indicated bv before the armi tice a woman was employed as traffic police- a letter and also stated before the committee that he did no~t · man in the city of Washington and stationed at the intersection solicit this increase? Is there any reason why the committee of Seventh Sn·eet with Massachusetts Avenue. She performed added this amount? the duties of that place for about two or three D?Onths with un- 1\Ir. SHERMAN. It is true the uperintendent of police did usual ability. She was a very attractive woman. She per- write the committee a letter, which is in our files, stating that formed her duties so " ·ell that a great many of the owners of he had no interest in the increase. I think, though, it is in acautomobiles went out of their way for the purpose of subjecting cordance with the facts-and the chairman of the subcommittee t-hemselves to her orders in order that they might obey them. will bear me out in the statement-that the compensation of the

Mr. MYERS. May I inquire if the Senator from Colorado superintendents of police of the various cities of the United was one of them? States exceeds either by a thousand or more dollars the com-

Mr. THOMAS. If I lla.d had a machine, I shoul<l have gone pensation of $4,000, which is the present pay for the "chief of by that intersection going and coming to my duties here every police of this city. day. I availed myself of the invitation of a. friend, who was an l\1r. CALDER. That is true, ::;\lr. President. enthusiastic admirer of the efficiency of this woman, and accom- 1.\Ir. SHERMAN. An.d we thought it proper to make this in-t)anied him to the Capitol by way of that particular route, and I crease of $500, which will still leave the salary much Jess than confess I took a much interest in her splendid administration that received in other cities which are the size of Washington. of her duties as did the admiring throng which preceded and It is still, I think, not out of proportion. succeeded the machine which I occupied. 1.\I.r. C~DER. That is true. In Detroit, for instance, t'he

Indeed, the attraction was so great that I understand there chlef of police is paid $7,500; in Boston the same amount; in was a substantial diminution of automobile service on Penn- Philadelphia, $4,500; and in Chicago, $8.000. sylvania Avenue; that F Street also suffered, and Fourteenth Mr. KING. Mr. President, I shall not move to amend the bill and Fifteenth Streets as well. Unfortunately the armistice us it has been reported by the committee. I rose primarily, came, and, this woman being the wife of u prominent officer 1 however, to state that this morning when unanimous consent stationed in the city who e duties called him elsewhere, Wash- was asked for the consideration of this bill at an evening esington was depri\ecl of her Ya1mtble sernces. I sion I \entured to object to its consideration, hoping that an

J., \III--324

8308 OONGRESSION AL R.ECORD-HOUSE. N OVE~IBER 11

opportunity would be had ·of taking the bill up to-morrow morning at 10 o'clock. I understood -that we were to have a very protracted session this afternoon in the discussion of the peace treaty, and I thought also that if any attempt were made to

1 consider this bill this evening it would be abortive because of the long session devoted to the consideration of the treaty.

I am very glad that this bill has come before the Senate for 1 consideration. I have given some little attention to the splendid ' work, generally 'speaking, performed by the policemen of this city, and I avail myself of this opportunity to pay tribute to the most excellent work whi~h they have done.

I desire to express one other view. I think it would be a very ' wise thing if the Commissioners of the District of Columbia l could see t11eir way clear at some time to appoint the superin

tendent of police from the ranks. I think it is a mistake to f place as superintendents of police men who have had absolutely no e...."q>erience with the work involved in protecting the city and caring for policemen. I am not speaking at all with reference to 1\faj. Pullman, the present occupant of this position, but I think that, so far as possible, efforts ought to be made to select men for this responsible position from the ranks. The men who "'0 in and work their way up ought to have an opportunity som day of becoming superintendents or, at any rate, they ought to feel that the opportunity is afforded them. From my information, how.ever, the policy has been pursued in this city of importing somebody into this office, to take a newspaper correNpondent or somebody who knows absolutely nothing about the \York involved in the police department. I should like to see p~motions from the ranks ; and I should like to see men ha\E:' the opportunity of reaching this highest station within the limits of this bill. I lmd hoped that the next appointment made would be from the ranks instead of from outside the ranks.

l\1r. JONES of Washington. 1\.Ir. President, I wish to join in the hope expressed by the S nator from Utah [1\lr. Krno] in that respect. It seem to me that if there· is any position that ought to be filled by promotion from the rn..nk:s it is that of superintendent of the police force. I can not conceive of better training for that position than that which is derived from service and experience in the ranks through the different grades. I repeat, I wish to join very heartily with the Senator from Utah in the expression of the hope that that cour e may be taken hereafter. My recollection is that when I first came to Washington ~laj. Sylvester was chief of police of the District and my impression i that he had served for a long while o~ the police force before he became chief of police. I am not sure

. about that, but; at any rate, he had a most excellent reputation as chief of police, and I think that wn due la.rgely to the ser-\ice that he had had with the force. .

Mr. MYERS. 1\Ir. President, I take pleasure in joining in tlle commendation expressed by the Senator from Utah [1\fr. KINo] of the gplendid service rendered by the police force of the District. I think the policemen of the District hnve rendered excellent and faithful ervice in the protection of the people and in behalf of the maintenance of law in the District and I am glad to see them get some increase of compensation.' They are a good lot of men and are, as a rule, faithful officers.

The amendment as amended was agreed to. The bill was reported to the Senate as amended and tho

amendment was concurred in. ' . . The amendment was ordered Jo be engro sed, and the bill to

be read a third time. The bill was read the third time and passed. Mr. SHERMAN. I move that the Senate request a confer

ence with the House of Representatives on the bill and amendment, and that the conferees on the part of the Senate be appointed by the Chair.

.The motion-was agreed to; and the Presiding Officer appointed 1\Ir. SHERM.A...~, 1.\Ir. C.ALDER, and Mr. SHEPPABD conferees on the }?ftrt of the Senate.

RECESS.

l\Ir. SHER~IA.i'{. ·wm it be necessary, before we take a recess t.o r turn to open executive session? '

::Ur. SHEPPARD. Provision was made for that in the unanimOll ·-consent agreement adopted befo,re the ·recess was taken.

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Chair is informed that it w~ included in the unanimous~consent agreement adopted befort- t he recess this afternoon that at the conclusion of the consideration of the police salary bill the Seriate would recess as in open executive session until 11 o'clock to-morrpw morning. Thee~fore .the Sen~te stands in recess until 11 o'clock a. m. to-morrow. ·

Tllereupon (at 9 o'clock an<f25 minutes p.m.) the Sen~te took a, r Pess until to-morrow, Wednesday, November·12, 1919, at 11 o clocl.: n. m.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

TuEsDAY, N ovembe1' 11, 1~19. The House met at 10 o'clock a. m. In the absence of the Ohnplain, the Members, at th request ·

of the Speaker, joined in repeating the Lord's Prayer. The . Journal of the proceedings of resterclity was rea<l and

approved. THE FRANKING PRIVILEGE.

Mr. BLANTON. Mr. Speaker, I rLse to a question of the highest privilege of the House.

The SPEAKER. The gentleman will state his question of privilege.

Mr. BLANTON. I de~e to present a privilegeu resolution. Mr. WALSH. The gentleman must state his question of

personal privilege first. Mr. BLANTON. The question of personal privilege is this

Mr. Speaker: By being graciously allowed to do so ·by th~ House yesterday Mr. Victor L. Berger delivered a speech from the floor ·of this Hou e which from the beo-inning to its end teemed with disloyal utterances agllinst th: Government and Constitution of the United States of America, and I am asking in this privileged resolution that the speech be not allowed the franking privilege.

I submit, Mr. Speaker, that this is a pTivileged I'e ·olution · a resolution o~ the ~ghest privilege. This speech appears ~ the RECORD tlus mormng. Under the usual franking privilege this resolution not being adopted, it could be sent to the utter~ most parts of this country under frank.

The SPE.A.KER.. Can the gentleman cite to tbe hair an authority that makes the frnnking priT"ilege a matter of privilege of the House?

Mr. l\IONDELL. 1\lr. Speaker, I make the · point of order that the gentleman's re olution is not in order under the rule.

l\11'. BLANTON. I submit upon the. point of ordE~r, 1\.lr. Speaker, that e\ery utterance on the floor of this House tliat goes into the .Co~CRESSIONAI~ RECO:RD, if permitted . by the Hou e to remrun m that REcoRD, is under the rules of the House entitled to the franking _ privilege, and that that privi~ege extends up to the \ery moment this House sees fit to take 1t from ·the RECORD. This Hou e is the judge of everything that goes into the REcORD and which shall remain in the REcoRD a a part of its proceedings, and can control what of same i en~tled to the franking privilege. If it were a matter that went mto the RECORD not under the graciousne s of this House, this House would have no control over it· but it beiDaa matter that appeared in the RECORD under the 'permission of this House, as a part. of its own proceedings, this Hous I1as absolute control over 1t at any time and at all time .

Mr. WALSH. Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman j'ield? The SPEAKER. Does the gentleman from Texas yield t o the

gentleman from Ma achusetts? · Mr. BLANTON: In a moment. Then I will yield to tile gen

tleman. And until the permanent RECOJID is made up and printed and published this House certainly has control over everything that ap-pears in it as a part of the proceed.fugs of the House.

Now I will yield to the gentleman from Ma achusetts. :M.r. WALSH. Does the gentleman contend that we can with

hold the franking privilege about any matter simply by a House resolution?

l\1r. BLANTON. As to the matter that appears in the RECORD entitled to the fra.n1..-ing privilege, matter that appear there by reason of being a part of the proceedings of this Hou e only the House has jurisdiction over it. '

Mr. WALSH. But the gentleman seeks to withhold the franking privilege from something that has been uttered in the House . Of course, the franking privilege is a matter of law, and can only be limited by joint resolution. ·

Mr. BLANTON. The House certainly has control over e\ery bit of its own proceedings.

Mr. WALSH. The House could strike out or eliminate. Mr. BLANTON. The House could strike out or eliminate or

circumscribe by limitation. It re(used yesterday to strike out. It has a right to place any limitations it ees fit on its own proceedings.

The SPEAKER. It seems to the Cllair that what the gentleman from M.:lsf?uchusetts says is nnanswerabl , that the Honse can not conh·ol the franking p~iT'ilege, which is a matter of law.

ENROLLED BILL PRE EXTED TO TilE PRES1DE -T FOR HI APPROVAL. ·

. ~!r. RAMSEY, from the Committe on Rnrolleu Bills, reported that this day they had pre entO(l to th<' Pre :h.lc>nt of the United States, for his approval, the followin g hill: . ·

H. R. 3844. An act for the reliPf of Della Jnme .

1919. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 8309 UN.ANTMOUS-CONSENT REQUEST.

Mr. :\fcCLINTid. Mr. Speaker, I want to submit n. unn.ni~ mons-consent request.

The SPEAKER The Chair <]oes not think it \\Ould be in ord~~ under the rule.

Mr. McCLINTIC. It will take just half a seconu-not for to-day, but for a later <lay.

The -SPEAKER. The Chair is in doubt whether, under the rule that has been adopted, the Chair has the right to recognize any request for unanimous consent. The Chair will consider that question, if the gentleman will postpone his request, and arrive at a decision to cover all requests.

Mr. CAMPBELL of Kansas. I submit, Mr. Speaker, that under the rule the House automatically, afte1: the reading of the Journal and the disposition of such privileged matters as a1·e on the Speaker's table and the disposition of conference reports, resolves itself into Committee of the Whole House on the state of the Union until the conclusion of the consideration of this bill -

The SPEAKER. That was at the beginning. The Chair was in doubt about whether later the action would be automatic. The rule said that on the adoption of this rule the House automatically resolve itself, and it would be a continuing order. The Chair would be disposed to think that after the first day it would require a motion to go into Committ ee of the Whole.

Mr. CAMPBELL of Kansas. But the motion to go into Committee of the Whole would be in order immediately fol

' lowing the disposition of the privileged matters referred to. THE RAILROAD BILL.

Mr. ESCH. Mr. Speaker, I move that the House resolve , itself into Committee of the Whole House on the state of the

Union for the consideration of the bill H. R. 10453, known as the railroad bill.

The motion was agreed to. The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Massachusetts [Mr.

W .A LsH] will take the chair. -Thereupon the House resolved itself into Committee of the

Whole House on the state of the Union for the consideration of the bill H. R. 10453, known as the railroad bill, with Mr. WALSH in the chair.

The CHAIRMAN. · The House is in Committee of the Whole House on th(' state of the Union for the consideration of the

. bill H.-R. 10453, which the Clerk will report. Th€' Clerk read the title of the bil1, as follows : A bill (H. R. 10453) to provide for the termination of Federal con

trol of railroads and systf>ms of transportation; to provide for the settlPment of disputes between carriers and their emplor,ees; to further amend an act entitled "An act to regulate commerce, ' approved Februa.ry 4, 1887, as amended, and for other purposes.

The SPEAKER. Under the rule the first reading of the bill is dispensed with. The gentleman from Wisconsin [Mr. EscH] is recognized. f Applause.]

Mr. ESCH. · Mr. Uhairman, the bill that we present to the House for consideration to-day, known as the railroad bill, has been the subject of long deliberation apd of careful consideration on the part of the subcommittee and the full committee.

In opening my remarks I respectfully ask that I may be permitted to proceed without interruption. [Applause.] If those who are here now will kindly pass that request along to Members as they come in the request will be complied with.

• The task presented to the Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce in connection with finding a proper solution for the adjustment of the so-called railroad problem was one of great complexity and of infinite difficulty. We sought advice and facts from every possible source. The hearings began on the 15th of July and extended to the 27th day of September, J'Unning continuously mornings and afternoons without intermission.

During that long period scores of witnesses were heard, and these witnesses came not from a single section but from all parts of the United Stutes. They represented not a single interest but many interests. They came representing various organizations, among them railroad organizations, financial organizations, commercial bodies, trade-unions, labor, agriculture. In fact, all interests presented their respective c:aims for consideration before the committee. They came voluntarily, for our committee did not ask of the House the power to subpcena witnesses, nor did we ask the House for an appropriation to pay counsel, accountants, or other experts. The only expense connected with this long investigation, .outside, of course, of the official committee stenographers, was a small sum for telegraphing. Otherwise this investigation cost the Government not a single dollar. We did not need the subprena powe1• in order to secure witnesses. They came in abundance.

A remarkable thing about the testimony was the high average character of witne~r:e~ and of the facts and arguments they

presented. For this reason these hearings are of pa.rtirulal:value, and I commend them to you and to the country for most careful consideration.

When these hearings began there was only one bill pending before the committee, namely, H. R. 4378, introduced by myself on the 2d day of June. There was no other bill -relating to the railroads, as a whole, introduced until after the hearings had been well started, when a bill was introduced by request by Judge Snns, incorporating the so-called Plumb plan. These were the only bills that were presented in the House for consideration .• But this does not mean that there were not other bills and other drafts of bills presented for the consideration of the committee, for there were two or three Senate bills incorporating certain plans, and these plans were explained by their respective exponents in great -detail. By the time the hearings had been half concluded not less than a half dozen plans, as represented by bills introduced in Senate or House, or as represented by draft plans, '""ere before the committee for its consideration. Besides these six: or seven bills, or drafts of bills proposing plans, there wer€' presented no less than 100 pages of amendments to the original bill-H. R. 4378. I state these facts merely to indicate the size and extent of the task that was imposed upon the committee in arriving at a solution of the question. With reference to these various plans the committee adopted this procedure, namely, that these should first be heard before we should give consideration to ariy -particular feature of the general plan. As a result, we heard the proponents of these plans, namely, the transportation-conference plan, presented by a committee composed of members of the United States Chamber of Commerce; the so-called Warfield plan, proposed by owners of railway securities, presented by an organization of which Mr. J. Davies Warfield, of Baltimore. is the pres1.dent; the so-called railway executives' piau, pi:esented by :Mr. Alfred P. Thorn, general counsel of the Railway Exerutive Committee of the Railroads of the United States which represents sontething like 90 per cent of the railroad mileage of the .Unitecl States. Then there was the so-called Amster plan, presented by Mr. Nathan Amster, of Boston and appeariilg in bill form in the bill introduceo by Senator 'LExROOT. Then there was the so-callerl Rich ph!n, or the New England plan, presented by Edgar J. Rich, of Boston, dealing, however, more particularly with the feature of new loans for the corporations after Federal control ceases. Then there was the plan that is embodied in the pending Senate bill, known as the Cummins plan, and there was also the Plumb plan, as presented in the bill introducoo by Juctge SIMS by request. These are not all the plans, but they are the leading ones. There were others that varied from these six leading plans.

After the hearings had been concluded, a subcommittee wa · appointed, consisting of five members, to make a survey of the whole field and seek to put in concrete form the leading feature · of the proposed legislation. That subcommittee labored for four weeks and submitted to the full committee, less than two weeks ago, the results of its labors, which are very largely· embodied in the pending bill.

There was at the beginning a. question as to whether or not the committee should give seqous consideration to the question_ of Government ownership. In view of the fact that the President, in his message delivered to the House early this year, had declared his intention to return the railroads by the first of next year; in view of the fact that the carriers themselves were eager to get out from under Federal control ; and the further fact that the shipping world, as indicated by chambers of commerce, traffic clubs, and individuals, desired an end of Federal control, the committee came to the conclusion that it would give to Government ownership only cursory consideration, and such consideration as was necessary in connection with the bill introduced by- Judge SIMS, which, by the way; was the only bill presented to the committee involving-the qt}es-tion of Government ownership. ,

Notwithstanding our purpose not to devote much time to tile question of Government ownership, we gave to the proponents of the Plumb plan six days <Jf bearings. As a result of those hearings, and of the cross-examination of the advocates of the plan, the committee were more firmly convinced than ever that Government ownership is not and ought not to be the solution of the problem. [Applause.] But the Plumb plan goes much further than Government ownership. It involves the question of employee operation. Socialism, so far as it has manifested itself in the regulation of public utilities, ·goes no further than Government ownership and regulation · of facilities thl'ough· such agencies as the Government may prescribe, but socialism bas not yet gone to the extent of demanding that there shall be employee operation. We therefore came to the conclusion that the socallecl -Plumb plan was impo. sible. (.Applause.]

83i'O We next considered these various other plans with a view of

seeing if they contained something of advnntage und something that would enable us to meet the pending situation and to build upon that something a super tructure for the future.

I have had published in the report a comparative synopsis of the t:arious plans •to which I have already Teferred. The synop is was prepared =by 'Mr. Richard Waterman, the secretary of the Tailroad committee of the United • tate Chamber of Commerce. While it is not compl-ete, it giv s you the salient features of the various principal plans and at the same time enable · you to di cover the coincidences antl differences. A cur ory review of i:he synopsis will indicate at once that ull the plans agree upon the return of the roads to private owner, hip and operation, with the exceptiou ·of the Plumb plan. .All of tlle plans, including the Plumb plan, favored giving to the Interstate Commerce Commission the power of regulating rates. All of the plans, including the 'Pluml> plan, gave to the Inter-tate Commer Commis ion the right of regulation of railrom1

. ecurities, inclucUnO' stocks and bonds. But when -you leave tho ·e three distjnctive featur you find much diversity in th.~ several plans.

The bill we present to you agree. with these ix or seven p.lans in that the pending bill gives to the commission l)Ower ove1· the issue of stocks and bonds and give to the commission the power to regulate · rates, fares, and charges, so that the

. pending bill is in accord ·with nil -of these severnl plans in these two major respects.

One distinctive f~·tture that stand~ ·out in several of these plans is the ereation of a transportation board, a board separate and distinct from the Interstate Commerce Commissiou, with certain por.-ers now exercised by the commission. The arguments that 'Were presented to us in support of the transportation board run along the e lines: As the Interstate Commerce Commission is a heavily worked body, it should be relieved of its tasks by taking from it certain administrative functions relating to the administration of the safety-appliance nets, the boiler-inspection act, the hours-of-service act, and other acts that have been pa. ed and are being adm:ipistered by the commission. With a transportation board which would be largely an administrati.Te body, it could take over these administrative functions heretofore exercised by .the commission. In addition, as ·the Interstate Commerce Commission is a quasi judicial body, it should not be burdened with administrative functions. That is the argument in support of fue ·transportntion board which can be met, in our opinion, by the statement that the administration of these Y.arious acts. Uke the safety-appliance act, the honrs-of- ervice act, the boiler-inspection act, and so forth, have been satisfactory, and I have heard of no complaint that these acts 'have not been administered with complete success. .For· that reason it would not be a suffi.cient justification to deny the commission the exercise of these ·administrative functions which it ha. exercised e'er since · the several acts· were enacted into 1.aw.

It is again asserted that the transport:.Ltion board is neces-ary because it would haYe a broader, wider view of the

whole subject of transportation by rail, by "highway, and by water; that it could be a body that coUld look into the financial ne <l of the carriers as a whole, or by groups, or by systems or regions; that it could frame a budget based on the financial neetL, by systems or by regions; and that it could then submit tho;-;<' budgets to the Interstate Commerce Commission with a mant.late that the commission should .fix such a level of rates us would meet the financial needs of the several carriers or groups. ·Our committee has not gone on any such theory. We do not belie·ve that it is wise to divide the functions between the Interstate Commerce Commission and another body. We belieYe that there is no body of men in the United States tbat knows so well the financial needs of the carriers or knows their operating difficulties and their operating problems so well as the Interstate Commerce Commission. Your independent body, no matter how able it might be personally, would have to take year to acquire the information already possessed by the membership of the Interstate Commerce Commission.

I fear if we create a separate and independent body like the transportation board, we would .divide the responsibility, and that is a thing we should avoid. It seems to me nlmost impossible to so differentiate the functions of the board and of the commission as to avoid misunderstandings and jealousies which would result in inefficiency and loss to the Government and to the people of the United States. I do not believe that a trans

·portation board should be created, as was suggested by the dis-tinguished representative of the railway executiTes' committee. His plan and th:eory was that you wanted a transportation board, another body which could exercise certain functions of control, and could say to the commission, "You must raise

NoVE~IBER 11,

the rates to such a le'.~.e1." The commi~ ion could then say to any complainant or to a disappointed public, ""\Ve could not help it. The transportation board exacted its demand. and so we are fortified."

The lp.terstate Commerce Commission does not ne d to bo fortified by the creation ·of an independent body like a transportntion bonru. The action of the commission since its foundatioo has been fearless in the interest of the public and. of the c.urrie1·, ancl the one .most noteworthy thing -running through the long array of testimony of over 3,500 pages is the uniform approval of the high characteT and efficiency of the Interstate Commerce Commission. [.Applause.]

The transportation board is not found in the pending bilL I should say that the transportation board is a characteristic of the executives' ·plan, of the transportation-conference plan, and. of the Senate bill plan. It is not, howeYer, a part of the socalled Warfield plan, which contemplates the creation of an association, of which associatio~ the membership of the Interstate Commerce Commission should constitute a part.

Tb.e next feature which is prominent in some of the plan i so-ca~d Fede1·a1 incorporation. This is not a new suggestiou by any 1nanner of means. It was .first prominently proposed by the railway e:x:ecutiYes in the hear.ings before the Newland~ Joint Commission in 1916, and the fundamental purpose of presenting the idea of Federal incorporation by the railway executives at that time was the elimination of the so-called 48 masters, namely, the regulatory bodies of the several States. That was the same purpose shown by the representatives of the railway executives and. others in presenting the testimony before tlle committee in tlle recent ·hearing . And why do they want to get rid of the 48 masters? I concede that some of the regulations of the States has proven unnecessarily ·burdensome to the carriers, without bringing compensating benefits. Especially is thi true with reference to the State regulation of operation, of enactment of safety-appliance laws, of fnll-c1·ew bills, and matter· of that kind, and more particularly with reference to the issuance of stocks and bonds, as to which feature I shall speak more in detail a little later on.

There was justification on the part of the railway companie in seeking to be relieved from the conflicting and the v-arying enactments of the 48 sovereign States, but, so far as the exe.rcise of police powers on the part of the several States is concerned, there should be no interference by Federal authority. The States have a field here peculiarly their own, and have occupied it and doubtless will be permitted to occupy it, but in n larger way the committee did not believe that the time had come to enact legislation that would practically wipe out the authority and control of the several States. It may come in time. • It seems to me that the legislation of Qonaress in recent years, supplemented aml possibly hastened by the decisions of the Suvreme CouTt in the SbrevepoTt, the South Dakota, nnd the Minnesota rate cases, is hastening the day when State control over eommon carriers will be vastly lessened. However, even though the trend is now that way, tlle committee .felt that the natural processes should be permitted to have their cour e rather than that we should, ·by a .reYolutionary stroke o::nd at a given time, wipe out the jurisdiction of the several States. The pending bill, therefore, do not embrace the doctrine of Federal incm . poration.

There was grave doubt expressed by the witnesses who appeared before the committee and in learned .briefs submitted to • the committee as to the constitution.ality o:f Federal incorpomtion. Learned counsel were to be found on each side of the proposition. I am not here to discuss that phase of the problem because it is unnecessary in view of the fact thn.t the bill doe-s not contain a provision for Federal incorporation. We were opposed to it because of the delay and the expense and the doubt as to law that would be involved if we ·adopted that as a part of our bill. Here aTe charters granted by States because of the sovereign power of the States to grant charters. Here are stockho~ders of t:hnt corporation enjoying the peculiar advantages and privileges which such State charters grant. Are they, or would they be, willing to surrender the privileges anll advantages they are legally enjoying under the State charter and be compelled to surrender them and be practically forced into a Federal incorporation by the use of the right of .eminent domain without objection? No. In every corporation chartered by the States there would be found recalcitrant stockholders who would say, "We will stand by our charter and by our State corporation, and you will have to compel 'UB to surrender by the power of law." That would mean a lawsuit, and a lawsuit would not ..end in your district court but would have to run its weary length along to the Supreme ·Court, invol'ring a delay of at least two years. We did not think it wise to incorporate in this bill a proposition that might in-volve such

1919. CONGRESSIONAir RECORD-HOUSE. 831.1. delays, :uch e.xpenS(l, and such litigation. Hence it has been omitted. ·

Then, in that same connection there was involved the question of taxation. If under Federal incorporation you create a Federal entity the question might arise whether that Federal entity would be subject tu a State tax. There would be no question .about the right of the Federal Government to tax its own creature, but we have been very sensitive _heretofore in seeing tba.t D[}thing is done to deprive the States of the right of taxation of the common carrier. In ·fact in the Federal-control a-ct we put in a specific exception to the effect that the St.ate"s right to tax these common carriers, even though they are interstate in character, shouid not be crilled in question. This, too, was another rea on which induced us to eliminate from the provisions of the bill the matter of Federal incorporation.

Another characteristic feature of these several plans, which was found in practically all of them, was the question of consolidations or mergers Wlth a possible resultant pooling of traffic, earnings, and equipment. The matter of consolidations or. mergers as to carriers is rather a new doctrine in these days because, as you know, the ori~inal interstate-commerce act of 1887 made pooling unlawful. That provision was placed in that law b~ cause of the experiences of the country in connection with tra.fl:k associations which had wide sway and potency something over 30 years ago, and all these years we have strictJy held to the letter of the taw that there shall be no consolidations and mergers and no pooling. But our ideas have doubtless been changed with reference to consolidations and mergers as they _have been changed with reference to many other things as the result of our war e..~erience. No sooner had the Federal-control act become operative than the President, through the director general, exercised the powers we gave b1m of putting al1 of the railroads of the United States, interstate in character, under a common control and management, one vast merger, and at the same time the President exercised the power of pooling traffic, earnings, an<l equipment, to the end that there might be a unified system of control over carriers and over the bl15iness which they did, in order that we might win the war. While that power, exercised by the President through the dlrector general, has given rise to much complaint on the part of the shipping public amt of individuals, and while it has not worked out as one would like to have bad it work ont, nevertheless I think we all believe it was necessary to make the consolidation and permit the pooling in order to meet the emergency of war and to bring troops and supplies to aU the ports along the Atlantic and Gulf coasts and to send troops from various parts of the country to thei"l' camps and cantonments.

But to-day the que,tion is tJresented to us, "Shall we retain consolidations, mergers, and poolings when peace shall again be with us?" There are two icteas about the subject. Tl1ere is one school that believes that the consolidation -should be compulsory, pursuant to the mandate of an official body or board. There is another school that believes that the consolidations or mergers should be permissJve, voluntary.

'l'here are difficulties in connection with compulsory consolidation; the same difficulties, I fear, that are conne('ted with compulsory Federal incorporation, difficulties which involve of necessity delays and costs. Our idea is not to b.a ve compulsorj consolidations or poolings of traffic earnings or equipment, but rather to have permissive voluntary consolil'iations, subject to the control of the Interstate Commerce Comm.i..c;;sion, lf the commisHion decides that such consolil'iation or merger or pooling was in the pubtic interest and would result in more economy of .administration and in ("Very way be of greater service. That is the doctrine on which the pending bill is framed.

There are, however, two plans that were presented involving compulsory consolidation. These are the plans of the railway executives nnd the pending Senate biU after the lapse of seven years, during whicb time the merger may be voluntary. I do not know what the stronger roads would do to the weaker roads during those seven years. ·

It does not appeal to me to have these voluntary consolidations along the lines of systems or of regions. The plans are to divide the country up into systems or regions for administration and rat~making purposes. G("ntlemen, there are very grave difficulties from the administrative standpoint in regional consolidation. The consolidation must, of course, be of average condition, so that your region would have average conditions, and make it possible for the administrative body more easily to administer the law. But how hard it would be to create a region where we would have such average conditions. I have in mind New England, which would, no doubt., be made into a group or a system. With the agriculture and timher interests of north Maine and the tremendous manufacturing interests in the densely populated cities of Massachusetts and Connecticut

you would have to average conditions and you would put up that problem to your a.dministrative body. But that is not the only difficulty. These regions u:re supposed to follow the lines of existing systems, so as to incorporate at lep.st two competitive lin~ and give our large centers a certain degree of competition. But these regions would naturally be :fTamed along east and west lines, especially .in official and western classification territocy, where the trunk-line systems run practically east and west. What would you do with a ..system that is at right angles with the trunk tines east and west? How would you pnt ~e Rock Island, which runs through seven or eight States and from far north to far south? How would you put that through a region w.hlch would permit it to be regulated as to 1·ates by any eommission? How about the lllinois Central, running from Chicago do,Yn to too Gulf, and the Seaboard and the· Coast Line .and the Southern and the Louisville & Nashville with its connections? Those roads run north and south athwart the trend · of commerce. I fear that tlle complexity of the problem of establishing regions or systems is so great that it would fall of its own_ weight. The rate-making system is difficult enough as it is now_ This new method would make it insolvable.

We do not believe that there is the same feeling of objection to _pooling that there was prior to the war. There can be p~ling of traffic, earnings, and equipment under the regulation pf the commission that -should be of benefit to the earriers. It is in tltis way that we hope that the commission may be able to solve the probll:!m of th<" weak sisters, the w.eak roads, and the so-called short-nne carriers. By doing this they can be .given a grt:>ater share in tra.ffi.c; hence they have a greater shat·e of earnings and certainly-and this is more in point-g-et a larger share of equipment. The one thing from w.hicb the short line suffers and always has suffered is beeauRe of the sho1·tness of equipment.. We believ·e that the e provisions will in a large measure relieve the situation with regard to shor..t-line carriers and will permit the consolidation of the short line and the trunk-lin~ connections and in that way strengthen the trans-portation of the Nation. ·

After t:h£se three features l1ave been eliminated from the pending bill, namely, the transportati<m board, and consolidation, merger, and pooling, and Federal incorporation, there is left one other feature that has cb.a.r.ac.terized aU these plans, and that is the cTeation of regional commiRsions o1· regjonal commissioneTs. The ar~ment in behalf of these is based upon the necessity of relief to the cOllliilission, and the public was told that the creation of regions would expedite the hearings. We canvassed that situation with great completeness and heard all the witnesses who desired to express a view. The result was that we did not put in the bill any provi ion -looking to the creation of r.egional commissions or regional colllmissioners. We proceeded in this cour-Se· for the following among other reasons: W<" ascertained from the commis..<>ioneL'S themgelves that Ulider the present practice it is not necessary., as Ul'ged by many, that the shippers or complainants are compelled to come to Washington in order to be heard, thus subjecting them to large expense. Under the existing practice the Interstate Commerce Commi sion sends to th<" field its attorney examiners, and they take t;he testimony on the ·ground and submlt it for revit>W to tbf' commi sion or the appropriate division of the commission. All the testimony and recommendations made by the attorney examiners is ~ubmitte<L so that the commission can act expe<.litiously upon the bearings presented befoJ:"e the attorney examiners. and this invoJves little expense. Moreover, an attorney examiner can be sent on a day's notice to any place in the United States and bold a bearing. But when you create a regional commission you have aU the formalism of a board. Yon will have the necessary delays and do not hav~ the mobility of your attorney examiner. And will it save delay? It will not. Your regional commission will have to have its hearing, and . when it has finished the bearing and completed lts findlnJ$ you could not deny to the shipper the right of appeal from your r~onal commission or your regional commissioner. Then, where have you gained anything in point of time? You have not, for you have injected another cause of delay, another obstruction in the pathway to a final decision. So the committee eliminated from the bi II the creation of regional commissioners or regional com-missions. ·

There are no ways by which you ean circmm:;cribe the jurisdiction of your regional commission as you can circumscribe the jurisdiction of your district courts by a limita.tio::I of, say, $3,000. You can not do that in your regional commission dealing with rates, fares. and charges. It is not the amount involved before sueh regional commi sion which determines the jurisdiction. The amnunt may be infinitesimal, but a few dollars, though the principle involved in a. rate case may be as far-reaching as the Nation itself. So I say, we llave con-

8312 CONGRESSIONAL ·RECOR.D-· HOUSE.

cludetl that we could not limit the jurisdiction of tJ;le proposed regional commissioners or · commissions, and if this could not be done, and there was nothing to be gained by letting them have jurisdiction, but there was likelihood of. more delay, we nave not put them in the bill. They, too, a·re eliminated. We permit the jurisdiction to remain in the commission, where it always has existed,_ as well as the existing practices, but we ha-re increased the membership of the commission by two, makIng it a commission now of 11 instead of 9 members. As to that, I will make . reference a little later on. .

But another and \ery serious objection which the committee found against regional commissions lay in the fact that in that way you could not secure uniformity of decision in rate making, for each regional commis~?ion might fix a different rate and build upon the rate a diffei·ent rate sn·ucture. That would not be in the interest of business. Business, gentlemen, depends upon stability as much as upon the amount of the rate. If you ha>e a dozen or more of these regional commissions scattered throughout the length and breadth of the land taking up rate matters and deciding them, each individually and without coordination one with the other, you would soon throw into the discard your entire rate structure. You might destroy the relationship of rates by so doing. Lack of uniformity is another cogent argrime~t that persuaded us in eliminating the regional commissions, and, in that connection, I believe there was little or no dissent.

Another feature that characterizes the several plans is based on the idea of a guaranty. That is not a new notion. It has been adopted by many nations in times past, and it exists in orne of them to-day. There are two forms of guaranty. There

is what may be called a straight guaranty, where the Government guarantees to the owner of the railroad property a certain fixed rate of return. That form of guaranty has been used in New Zealand, in Australia, and in the countries of Europein Belgium, in France, and in Italy, and in other ~ountrieswith the inevitable result that a guaranty by government of a fixed return upon capitalizration leads to extravagance, leads to waste, and inevitably leads to government ownership. "\Ye did not believe that Congress was willing to adopt a policy that had that trend.

But there is another form of guaranty that is more appealing nnd, on the face, less objectionable. It is the form that may be found in the so-called Warfield plan, and in the Senate plan, and in the transportation conference plan. What is it? The transportation board is to divide the country into certain regions or gronp. for rate-making purposes, and the roads in such groups or regions are to be valued, and they are to receive a certain fixed rate of return upon the a\eraged capitalization or \aluation of all the carriers within the region or group. In the case of the Warfield plan it is a percentage'upon the property investment account or the book cost. In the Senate plan it is to be based upon valuation ·when the valuation board finally determin<'s valuation. When the transportation board or other agency bas divided the country into regions and estimated the Yaluc of the railroads within the region and Congress has fixed th rate of return, say 6 per cent, then the transportation board . a:rs to the commission, "You have got to raise the level of rates in this region to such a point as will develop revenues enough to pay the 6 per cent minimum." That is the form of guaranty now being suggested for consideration by one branch of Con"Tess. It is a form of guaranty, notwithstanding the fact that . its proponents deny it is a guaranty, because the Government is not liable to suffer loss. True, the Government will not suffer -loss, but it is a guaranty just the same, because your stockholder, youe bondholder, says, "Why, I am all right; I am all secure<l, because the Government has got to fix such a level of rates as to produce such a rate per cent." It is certainly in e sence n guaranty and we-can not camouflage the fact.

We of the committee have not believed that any form of guaranty was wise or would be a safe, conservative plan for the solution of this most difficult problem. We believe that the ratemaking power should remain where it now rests. I know through propaganda, very active in the last few years, it has been charged that the Interstate Commerce Commission has tar\ed the railroads, destroyed their credit,. and that now we

ha\e got to so adjust the whole law as to take from the commission the power to starve the railroads. Gentlemen, I have printed as a part of the report a statement made by Commissioner McChorcl showing the a>erage dividend rate declared upon divided yielding stock for all the years from 1892 down to and including 1917, when Federal conh·ol began, was 6.19, areturn that was higher than the return on municipal bonds in the great cities of the United States and a return higher than municipal or Government bonds in Great Britain and other nations of Europe. ·

The commission did not destroy the credit of the railroads. In my humble judgment, if there is any destruction of credit it is >ery largPly due to the railroads themselves. For years they ha\e proclaimed from the housetops that they had 110 credit, that they were on the \erge of bankruptcy, and they used thoso arguments before the commission and before the State commissions by way of appeal to get an increase of rates. Do yotl think a banker could survi\e long if he got out on the street corner in front of his bank and said to the passersby," 1\!y credit is gone; J am on the \erge of bankruptcy 1'? There would be a run started on his bank within an hour. But that is not all. The credit of the carriers has been shaken hy the action of some of the carriers and, as in all other things human; the innocent majority are compelled to suffer because of the guilty minority. I do not want to rehear e the awful financial stories that were brought out by the Interstate Commerce Commission' in>estigation of the Frisco and the Rock I land.

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from 'Visconsin has consumed one hour. He is recognized for an additional hour.

Mr. ESCH. I need not I'elate the story of the Frisco, of the Rock Island, of the Chicago, Hamilton & Dayton, of the Pere Marquette, of the Pittsburgh Terminal, of the New Haven, or of the Chir'.ago & Alton, and that whole long array. Financial wrecking was what largely drove the average investor from investing his earnings in the carriers, and it seems that the carriers have got a large responsibility on their shoulders in sti·i>ing to restore the confidence of the in vesting public in their securities. I am sorry that it is so. The carrier is entitled to a fair return. I am willing to go as far as we possibly can in the present crisis to restore their credit and to put them on their feet so that they may again walk alone. But the fact can not be wholly forgotten, much less ignored.

Now, with reference to this matter of guaranty, it seems to rue t~at it would be impossible for the commission or any regulatory body to maintain the level of rates in a region at such a point as would develop the rate per cent on a fair return. Rates fluctuate violently; they fluctuate from year to year; they fluctuate within the year. A drought over one of these regions may entirely change the operating revenues of that region, or a pest may destroy crops over a great area.

A flood that destroys railway property and bridges for a time will al o ha-ve a selious effect upon the revenues of a railroad in that region. Fluctuations are bound to occur within the year; and yet under this rule of rate making the commission would I1ave to maintain the level, and to do that it would have to shift that rate level from time to time, and this shifting of the rate level from time to time would beget uncertainty, and uncertainty, as I have already· said, is detrimental to the business world. It unsettles business. It renders a contractor or a producer or a manufacturer unable to determine what price he shall charge three or six months in the future. We believe that that is also a difficulty which will be entailed if we establish the guaranty plan, as suggested in some of these bills.

Then this form of guaranty also provides as a sort of encouragement to the railroads and in order to presene their morale a division of the excess over a fair return. That is a ~educti>e propo~ition, as it has some merit; but we did not believe that Congress had any right constitutionally as a matter of law to say to a railroad company that was earning moJ,"e than its fair return unaer rates fixed by law and through the commission : " You must surrender a half or some other portion of that excess of earnings to your Government or to your employees or to somebody else." Being the output and the rc ult of rates that were legal, fixed by a legal tribunal, has Congress the right to say that any portion of such excess shall not belong to the road that earned it, but that it can be taken away by the Go\ernment and preseryed or kept by the Government or given to any other body? We have not felt that we would "O to such an exteht, and so we ha-ve not adopted that plan.

But, gentlemen, in my · opinion, in studying the history o.f other nations which have adopted this division of cxcesseai·nings plan, there is no likelihood that there will be any excess any more than there was llk.elihood of there being any core to the apple in the case of the gamin. Other nations have tried this plan of dividing excess earnings. I think the Stat~ of New Hampshire had a law of that kind years ago, but it repealed the la\Y, and it repealed it because it ne\er got any exce s earning . The railroads saw to it that through their expenditures there would not be any excess. They tried it in the Republic of Brazil, and they are not gettin<T any excess, Judge WATSON, of our committee, cited a.n instance with reference to one of the railroads in Brazil as showing what little likelihood there wa of any railroad lmder such a plan developing any surplus. He stated that one of the railroads dow·n ther had two pre idents.

1919. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD--HOUSE. 8313 One president would hold office for six months and then spend six months in Europe investigating the financial standing and o}wrntion of roads in Europe.

The other president of course would be holding down the job in Brazil, and when the first president returned then the second pr sldent went to Europe to invegtig;ate the financial opera· tions of the railroads of Europe. There will not be any surplus under that plan._ And so, gentlemen of the committee, we hav-e not put it into the bill that is now before you.

I think that under the plan we have adopted we are able to take care in a large measure of the o-called short lines, and the provisions of the bill relating to them will be pointed out us they are reached. Th~re is another reason why our committee was ~rsuaded

not to establish this surplus-earning plan, this guaranty plan, ba ed upon a certain level of t·ates, and that reason was based upon political grounds. Suppose, gentlemen, this year a law were in force whereby Congress said that 6 per cent was to be a fair return upon yow· capitalization or your book cost and that under it, on the Level of rates the commission created Ln response to the mandate of the transportation board, the earnings were large. What would hnppen? What might happen: A political ugitation throughout the United States; a political party might take up the shibboleth ; a plank might be inserted in a platform to this effect: " Whereas the returns to the rail· roads during the year 19- having been so much, therefore resolved, that we favor an amendment to the law fixing the rate not 6 but 5 per cent." What would then happen? Immediately it would become a football of polities, and parties might vie with one another in appealing to the public by declaring, " Put us in and we will reduce the rate of a fair return to 5 per cent; the law fixes it now ut 6." ·

I do not believe that it is wise for us to adopt any plan that will subject the rate-making powers of the comm_ission, or that will suhject the rate strueture itself, with all its complications and complexities, to the whim of any political party.

I w1sh to take up briefly the pending bill and point out the more salient features contained thet·ein. But to start with I \Vi h to SHY that we did not incorporate in the. bUl new and strange features and untried plans. We thought it wiser to build upon a foundation already in existence and which we believed to 11ave been well laid. We did not think that this was a good time for experimentation. a time when the world is in ferment and men's min<.ls and tboughts are not crystallized. 'Ve thought this. above all times. should be the time when we should act conservatively and proceed step by step as experience leads the way. ·we might by the adoption of some experiments make the remedy worse than the disease.

So we Etated in this bill thnt we would foflow the interstate commerce act as existing, with certain amendments to meet exi ting and future conditions.

We also in the bill sought to retain whatever of advantages inured from Federal control. I have already enumerated some of these arising out of consolidations and mergers and pooling. But there are other advantages which the country concedes have been dae to the consolidation of al1 ow· systems into one, and among these other advantages is ~ matter of the joint use of terminals. I will explain that a little further on. Tlle joint use of terminals, with the proper compensa tiou to the owner thereof. and operated onder rules and regulations prescribed by the commission, wtlJ inu:re to the great advantage of the shipping and traveling public. The <lay has arrived when terminal property in the big and congested ·cities of the Unitell States has reached a prohibitive level of value, so that if we are to continue to meet the increasing demands of traffic and we can not get new terminals, we must make a greater use of the terminals we now ha•e, and we can do this most easily and most -cheaply by requiring the joint use of such terminals.

Then there are other advantages in connection with Federal control that are patent to us all and that we eek to continue, and some of these arise in connection with the cooperation of rail and water traffic, but we will consider these matters later.

I want to call attention to an omission from this bill compared with H. R. 4378 as originally introduced. That bill covered the telegraph and telephone companies. This bill eliminates them. This does not mean that telegraph and telephone companies are not to remain common carriers. We do not change that, for they are common carriers. They are subject to the law and have to make rates that are reasonable and just and nondiscriminatory, and if they do _ not do tbnt they are subject to the Interstate Commerce Commission, for the commission can determine what just and reasonable rates shall be charged. The telegraph and telephone companies must still file their reports annually with the commission on forms prescribed. - Aside from that this bill does not giv_e the commission further power over these wire systems.

Why did we eliminate them from the proviSions of the bill? For this reason : There are 11,000 or ::!2,000 telephone companies in the United States. 1\Iost of these nre small, independent lines with small capitalization, confined practically to counties or municipalities. If we had kept tl'lem under this bill, they would have been subject to tlle provision requiring these small companies to get a certificate of convenience and necessity if they wnnted to make an extension of n line {)r to abandon a line no matter whether long or -Slrort. If they had been kept under the blll, they W{)Uld have had to -come here and get certificates as to the issuance of stocks ana bonds.

We did not be1ieve that we should subject these thousands of small companies to these harassments, in view of the fact that so doing would give to the public little or no advantage and would entail upon them enormous expense.

As there are only two considerable telegraph< compan'ies~ the Western Union and the Postal, and as these two companies, us to their rates, are now under the jurisdiction of the commission, we also believed that it was unnecessary to incorporate · them in the bill. So they are subjected to just as much control as they were before. We have eliminated them for these several reasons.

'Ve also thought, as to telegr·aph and telephone or wire sys. terns, that it would be better not to complieate a bill directed to railroads with provisions relating to the wire systems. and U WQ.S our thought that later, after fuller discussion and investi"'a· tion, a bill could be reported that woula deal wholly with the wire systems, and for that reason~ among the others which I have given, we have eliminated them.

The original bill alsu pots water transportation under the provisions of this btll. That is to say, the commission was given power to regulate port-to-port traffic ln the coastwise trade and on the Great Lakes and between the coasts and Alaska. This bill eliminates port-to-port traffic and .:oes not give the commission power over water transportation. The majority of the committee thought beRt t6 eliminate all ref· erence to water transportation. Personafly, I believe that tbe time will come when there must be regulation of water lines if there is to be coordination of l'ail and water transportatioii. I for myself can not conetl.ve how we can coordinate r-c:til and water transportation and reg11late only the rai1 carrit>rs. If that can be done without law, I will yield my po..;;ltion; but I can not see bow you can do it and say to water earriers: u You go scot free, do anything you want to, bot as to the raU carriers we will regulate yon to the limit."

We have, however, retained in this bin strffie1ent jmisdi-ction to continue the operation of the Government tows and bar~es that were placed, under the oTder of Director General McAd()O, on the Mississippi and th~ Black 'Varrier Rivers, and that are being placed upon the upper Mississippi and upon the Erie Barge Canal. It is evident that immediately upon th~ termina· tion of Fed~ral control the control of these tows and barges vn inland waters wouJd likewise cease; and, in view of the fact that the Government bas already got an investment {)f something like $10.000.000 and Is eommitted to $5,000,000 or $6,000,000 more, the committee felt bound to provide some legis· lation her~ that would d(:'clare the status of these Government tows and barges operated upon these inland waters. So the bill does provide that the operation of these tows and barges on the Black Warrior and Mississippi Rivers and on the burge canal shall be put 1n the hands of the War Dera.rtment and operated through the Chief of Enginee-rs.

Now, there may be some opposition to this plan. There may be some who would prefer that it shourd be given to the United States Shipping Board, because its -<lutles are wore akin to that llne of work. But the Shipping Board· act specifically eliminates inland-water tran portation from its operations. It does include -commerce on the Great Lakes, but not transporta· tion upon the rivers and canals of the United States. So when we put the jurisdiction of these Government tows and barges on these rivers and canals in the hands Of the War Department, we are taking nothing a way from the Shipping Board.

It has been suggested that there might be some other governmental agency that might operate these tows and bargesl but in the opinion of the committee no other agency is so well adapted, so well equipped, and has llad so much exper·ience in their operation upon the inland rivers and canals as the Corps of Engineers of the War Department; but as to the rates, fares, and charges we retain regulation by the Interstate Commerce Commission and we hnpe that this piau may wu1·k out successfully and that we may restore traffic upon the rivers and inland waters of the United States, for the time i.s coming when we must utilize every transportation agency-ran, highway, and water.

With reference to the framework of the bill, you will notice that we have changed somewhat the ordinary procedure in that

8314 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. N OVEl\IBER 11'

we lw:ve established titles and used 100 as the ba~is for each title, so that the number of a section imm~ately discloses the title in which it is to be found .• Then, there are numerous p_rovisions in the bill for the numbering of the paragraphs in the interstate-commerce act. They are not numbered now, and if . you wish to amend a paragraph of the commerce act you must now say the sixth or the eighth or the tenth paragraph of section so-and-so of the act. In this bill we number the paragl;aphs ·so that hereafter every paragraph wi1l have its number and can be cited by that number. The establishment of titles

. and the numbering of the paragraphs i.n the sections of the commerce act are for the purpose of brevity and clarity.

Title. 1 of -the bill contaiJ.!s practically nothing .more than definitions. These definitions aid in the understanding of the blll. -

Title 2 relates to tlle ending of li'ederal control, and you will notice that the title and ~hat provision relating to the ending of Federal control are given in more or less detail. We l1ave .segrega_ted out of the Federal control act au· those grants of power which we desire- to have the President relinquish when Federal control ceases and leave to him the exercise of those powers, contained practically in section 1 of the act, which he must continue to exercise for the final adjudication and settlement of ·au accounts between the several carriers and the Hailroad Admlnistra tion.

w·e have a provision under title 2 as to the continuing of existing rates, fares, charges, practices, regulations, and so forth, and existing differentials of rates and joint rates and aggregat(' of rates. It is apparent that unless we put in a provision of this kind, then as soon as the Federal control ended all the rates made under Federal control would cease and the rates would revert to their percontrol status-both interstate and intrastate. It is clear to all that that would be calamitous. If the rates of the railroads now existing as fixed by the director general should suddenly be brought to a precontrol level there woulrt scarcely be a railroad in the United States that could begin to pay operating expenses.

What do we do? We say that all the rates, fares, and charges and differentials of rates and joint rates and aggregates of the rates existing during Federal control and at the time Federal control ceases shall continue in full force and effect until they are changed by authority of law, which would mean until they were changed by the proper regulatory body.

Under that section of the bill we feel that we have taken care of a very grave emergency. A United States district judge in Baker City, Oreg., several months ago decided that intrastate rates when Federal control ceases would imm.mediately revert to the same status as prior to Federal control. That decision has not been finally determined. I do not know what the outcome of it will be.

But there is no doubt as to the interstate rates--every one would revert to the precontrol status the day that Federal control ended. Imagine! These rates were increased 25 per cent by order No. 28 of June, last year, as to freight and 50 per cent as to passenger fares. That increased level of rates is in force to-day. If control ceases . without this section in the bill the rates would be dropped 25 per cent on freight and 50 per cent on passengers, with the consequences I have already related.

Title 2 also contains a provision as to refunding. It is obvious that the Government under the Federal control act in its dealings with corporate property, capitalized approximately at $18,000,000.000 with a gross income annually of over four and one-half billion dollars, would have a vast amount of bookkeeping and would have many open accounts that would require adjustment. 'Ve therefore provide under title 2 the manner of funding the indebtedness of the carriers to the Federal Government, allowing the Government under the Federal control act and in accordance with the standard contract to offset, exclusive of certain reductions under the contract, the indebtedness of the Government to the carrier.

This matter of funding will be given more detailed consideration under the five-minute rule. Suffice it to say we permit the carrier at its option to extend the period of payment to the Government over 10 years, in annual installments, or with the right of paying the debt before the 10 years · have elapsed, with a certain rate of interest agreed upon. There shall, however, be taken a first-mortgage security for this funded debt. If there is any other indebtedness it is to be represented by demand notes with whatever practical security the carrier may be able to gi\C to the satisfaction of the President of the United States.

There is also contained in title 2 a provision ·as to guaranty. The guaranty provided in this bill is practically the standard return of the test period provided for in the Federal control acf, but we· try to differentiate the guaranty of six: months provided for in the bill in ·order that it may be- fair to the Government.

Under the standard return or rental or compensation pro\ided for in the Federal control act-I do not care what term you use, as they are used interchangeably-the Go\ernment pays the railroads under Federal control annually the average railway operating income for the three years which ended on the 30th of June, 1917. That will total for all Class I, II, and III roads approximately $963,000,000. The income by months is something like $76,000,000. This income, as you all know, does not amount to $76,000,000 eYery month, for the busine s of a railroad is seasonal, and the first six months of the year are, as a rule, the lean months, and the roads earn in the first six months only about 43 per cent of the total earnings of the entire year.

We therefore say, to be fair, that the six months guaranty period provided for in our bill, no matter when it occurs in the 12-month period of the year, shall be basec1 upon the average during the test period for the same set of six months, so that the GoYernment would not be mulcted, for instance, in paying a higher standard return than that to be paid when based upon the return on the months over which the guaranty provided in this bill extends. I believe this is a matter of fair dealing, which will commend itself to the member hip of the House. This guaranty is fortified. I know it may be said that it is unsafe to guarantee the roads for six months after the Government has relinquished control. It might be so unless we carefully safeguard. the situation, and we do this, because we say that the railroads should not be permitted to expend for maintenance of way and equipment and for operating costs more than the average for the corresponding months of the three years of the test period. We further protect the Government by saying that the Interstate Commerce Commission shall pass upon these expenditures for maintenance of way and equipment and operating expenses, and if there is an excess, or if the commission fears there may be an excess, an unwarranted excess, the commission is given power to demand a restatement of those expenses.

This bill holds the railroads to the level of expenditures during · the test period, allowing a certain amount of discretion in the commission for increased costs of labor and materials during the guaranty period.

In another respect we fortified the Government by saying tl1at no carrier shall get this guaranty unless within 60 days after Federal control ceases it shall apply for increases ot· changes in the rates. We do this because if we did not do it the carrier would simply lean back and say: "Why, we do not have to worry about increasing the rates,. we are getting our standard return, we will take what the Government gives us, and then we will file an application for an increase just prior to the expiration of the six months." We provide in the bill that the carrier will have to make the application within 60 days after Federal control ceases, so that the burden of this will fall not upon the Government, as has been the case dming Federal control, but upon the shipping public of the United States, where under private control and operation it should and ought to be. We believe we have so framed that section that the Treasury of the Government will not be endangered.

Realizing the financial straits of many of these roads, especially of the weak roads and some of the short-line roads, du to a shortage of cash, we allow them to borrow from the United States Government at a 6 per cent rate per annum, a rate that no doubt for these weak roads and perhaps some of the stron.l. roads would be less than the average market rate which they otherwise would have to pay. We believe that this is necessary in order to maintain tl1e financi.al status of many of the so-called weaker lines and in order to enable them to function properly and not bring on any large number of receiverships.

We allow these loans to stand for a period of five years, but we provide that they must be applied for within two years after Federal control ceases. 'Ve have extended the time to two years within which to make the application instead of one year, as we originally had it, upon the suggestion made to us that if we extend the period to two years many of these roads will be able to get along with the income they get from the rates and would not apply for relief at all if they had two years, whereas if we restricted the period of application to only one year all of them would feel as a matter of safety and as an assurance against hazard that they would have to apply within the first year.

We also create a reyolving fund of $250,000,000 to take care of these loans. This figure was arrived at after conference with the Hon. Swagar Sherley, director of finance of the UnitedStates Railway Administration. He stated that the maturities for 1920 will amount to approximately $225,000,000, and that 'the railroads might need for additions and betterments and extensions during 1920 pos ·ibly $750,000 ~· "."hich is more than

1919. -. CONGRESS! ON .AL RECORD-HOUSE.

tlle Government-expended for this purpose during the two years of F ederal control, and is somewhat more than the railroads themselves expended during the test period ending 1917. That would make practically a billion dollars. Mr. Sherley's idea was-and the committee agreed with him-that if the roads borrowed to the limit of $250,000,000, the banks, knowing that this was a 6 per cent proposition, would themselves be glad to loan the money, and therefore there might not be any demand upon the Federal Government for loans in excess of -the ·amount of the re_volving fund. I believe that his opinion in that matter will be justified . . - I pass _ now to another feature of the bill, title 3, which

deals with the labor proposition. Of course,-we antic.ipate that this title will give rise to considerable discussion and offers of amendment. Your committee is not dogmatic. It does not herald a panacea for labor ills. It does not claim that it has found the absolute solution and that hereafter all will be peace and harmony. Not at all. Title 3 gave us as much concern and we devoted as much time to it as any other title in the bill, and i t has given much concern to others who have investigated the subject matter. A labor conference was called here some time ago by the President. That conference labored for two or three weeks and finally threw up its hands and confessed that it had no solution to offer. Your committee, with all of the other problems that were thrust upon it in connection with the railroad problem, had this matter thrust upon it also, and it has presented to you tllis plan.

Our theory is that primarily, fundamentally, we must create such a tribunal for the ascertainment of facts and the decision of que tions relating to wages and hours of service and working conditions as will commend it to the judgment of mankind. [Applause.] Unless we can do that there will be doubt as to the Yalidity and the justice of the award and there will be t110se who will want to break from such an award. If we can create a tribunal so fair, so honest, so honorable that neither party to the controver-sy can cast aspersions upon it, have we not gone a long way toward begetting respect for the award of . that tribunal not merely on the part of the parties interested in the (Uspute but on the part of the general public? It was this that inspired us to draft title 3 and to provide the machinery tberein contained. I know some of you may say it is complicate<l, but you can not devise any system that will eover the ituation carefully that will not be complicated. We had more

than one plan presented to us which on final analysis had to be abandoned.

'Ve have given you this plan and its fundamental thought is ·to create a panel, just as under the judicature of America and Great Britain we create u panel out of which we can draw the nE>ce~sary men to decide any given dispute. On your panel you should place men who represent the Yarious interests that may be effected by any controversy. We create the two great group ·-the employer group and the employee group. They constitute the panel, and when a dispute arises between a union and the railroad and it is brougbt to the attention of this panel, w'llich we call the railroad adjustment board, that board immedia tely draws from its own body the representatives of the employer group and · an equal number of representatives of the employee group to constitute a nisi prius coul't as it were to try the dispute. In this we have retained the plan that is back of these adjustment boards that have been operating under Federal control. Why should these conference committees, taken from the panel, be equally divided as to the contending interests? They are to be equally divided in order to force an adjustment without seeking to go to an appeal board. This has worked pretty well with the· existing adjustment boards, and we hope it will work well if this plan becomes a part of the final enactment.

From this conference committee, created out of the panel to deci<.le nisi prius cases by hearing or trial, there shall be an appeal to an appeal board consisting of nine members, three of whom shall be appointed by the President out of sets proposed or suggested by the empl?yer members of the panel, three are to be selected by the President out of sets recommended by the employee members of the panel, and three are to be appointed by the President as representing the public at large-one representing the industrial interests, another the agricultural interests, and the third unorganized labor. This appeal board makes the final award. That final award becomes impressed upon the contract between the employer and the employee. It is made a part, therefore, of a legal contract. Gentlemen, to my mind one of the grave situations connected with the labor problem to-day is the violation of contracts. Unless contracts can be lived up to, both by the employer and the employee, no system of award or arbitration or mediation or conciliation will avail much if anything. We belieT'e that the railroads should stick to the

letter of the contract it makes with its employees, in union or brotherhood, and, per contra, we believe that labor in contracting through its representatives should also live up to its contract [Applause.] The difficulty comes in the enforcement, a difficulty which is acknowledged by all. We seek to provide such enforcement in the pending bill by giving the right of action against a union or an organization, in case a member violates the contract, with right of damage against common property of such union or organization, except such common prop~rty as is represented by insurance, frat.ernal or other benefits, which all these organizations maintain. That is, in brief, what we haT'e suggested.

We ha\e not gone to the limit of putting in an antistrike clause. I know that this House is possibly swayed by the situation as it exists on the outside at this particular moment, and it seems that labor is not in such high standing as it was a few months -ago; but it is not wise always to judge the future by a present emergency condition. I do not know what the future has in store. My own thought is that if we put in a provision here penalizing a strike that the only way we could reach the matter would be to penalize everybody who struck. · Strikes are threatened which involve not merely hundreds of men, as strikes used to in an early day, but strikes are now pending that in\olve millions. Gentlemen, not as a matter 9f sentiment; not, if you please, as a matter of so-called justice; but as a matter of workability, how are we to enforce a law penalizing strikes when the strike may involve several hundreds of thousands of men? My fear is that if men are permitted to disregard a law and see that it is not to be enforced, they will be inclined to disregard other laws.

.There are other features of this bill to which I desire to call attention briefly. We have amended the interstate commerce act in sundry and diverse particulars. I can only call attention to tlle most salient-features, and they are the following: In section 4QO we deal with a divis_ion of rates. Now, division of rates is a fundamental proposition in regard to the revenues of any carrier, whether it be a short or a trunk line. A short-line carrier can not live unless it gets a just proportion of the rate. We give in this bill to the Interstate Commerce Commission the power to determine the division of rates. Under the law as it exists the commission's power can only be invoked where there was a dispute as to the division of rates between the carriers. We provide now that the Interstate Commerce Commission has the right on its own initiative without complaint to determine a division of rates. In practice under the old law a short-line carrier did not want to complain because as a rule it was largely securing its revenue by sufferance of a trunk-line connection, so it endured the ills that it had and took the short end of a division of the-rates. We wanted to liberalize this situation, and we think we have in the bill, by giving the commission the power to act on its own initiative. We believe this power in the commission will result in great good to the short-line roads, which have been so insistent in asking for relief at the hands of the committee.

Then we haT'e in title 2, practically in this same section, a T'ery material· amendment of the car-service act. The car-service act was passed about May, 1917, just too soon to become :ftVly operative before Federal control began, so that the act bas never had a fair chance of demonstrating its ~fficacy in the matter of car service: In the form in whi<'h .we p_assed the act some two years ago it related .on~y to the exchange, interchange, and return of cars. We have enlarged that jurisdiction by saying that now the authority of the commission shall include the use-note the force of eve1·y word :

The term "car service" in this act shall include the use, control, supply, movement, distribution, exchange, interchange. and return of locomotives- · •

That was not ~ the old actcars, and other vehicles-

Which was not in the original act~ used in the transportation of property.

Further, it gives the commiss~on i)ower as to the supply, movement, and operatiop of trains by any carrier py railroad subject to this act. If that authority had rested in the commission prior to Federal control, it might not have been necessary to have given to· the President the great powers we gave Wm by the Federal control act. One of the commissioners stated that if the car-~ervice act as· now proposed to be amended had been in force prior to 1917, we might not have bad to enact the Feder3;l control act at all. ~his section relates to the use, control, and supply of ~rs and to the _ control and movement of trains. Under_ i_t the commission will have the right to order a carrier to supply itself with cars. . In a decision of · the Supreme Court, known as the TankCar case (United States v. Pennsylvania RailroafJ no., 242

. •

8316 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. NOVEiffiER 11,

U. S., 208), decided, I think, thTee yeru·s ago, it was held that the commission in ordering the Pennsylvania Railroad Co. to supply itself with tank cars did not have such authority. I will ask the g:'--Dtleman from Virginia [Mr. MooRE] if that is not right?

Mr. MOORE of Virginia. It was the tank-car case. 1\1r. ESCH. Yes. This section would give the commlssion

power to order the carrier to supply it lf with cars. I hope, gentlemen, that these provisions, which seem so in

significant upon first reading, may be studied and weighed. When they are, I think you will begin to realize to what extent we have enlarged the scope and power of the Federal authority in the great mutter of tran portation.

We also took into con ideration the matter of coal supply and of coni cars and the distribution of coal cars. There are O'entlemeu on this floor who represent coal-supplying districts and they know the difficulties mine operators have bad in years past with reference to the allotment of cars to the mines based upon output. We seek in this section 2 to give the commission power oYer the distribution of coal cars and to avoid the evil of the o-called "assigned" cars. We are putting in the law what t11e Inter tate Commerce Commission has already decided to be the proper practice and what the Supreme Court has confirmed to be the proper practice.

\Ve al o giYe the commi J:>ion greater power in cases of emergency. You know we have had an emergent condition throughout the country many times in recent years. We want the commission to ha Ye tlte power to act promptly on the spur of the moment in case of emergency in order to prevent congestion at terminals; in order to route traffic around a congested terminal so that it may reach its destination at the ear tie t possible date; in order to ship goods over the most direct route regardle s of instructions contained in the bills of lading. We want all this power to be exercised by the commission in an emerO'ency. The bill gives such power::. to the commiF;sion. You know bow the ports in New York, Boston, and Philadelphia were cluttered up with a vast congestion of freight during the summer of 1918 before the armistice was signed, and you remember how embargoes bad to be )ssued way back to the interior where the commerce originated. This bilJ gives the commiRSion the right of levying embargoes to prevent the goods moving to the port terminals and thus congest not only the port terminals but tbe sidings and tracks for a hundred miles from the harbor city. We give the commission the right to issue pe1·mits for shipments for similar reasons.

The CHAIRMAN. The a<lditionnl hour of the gentleman bas expired.

Mr. ESCH. Very well. We also -give the commis ion the right of treating each

emergency a it arises ami of also distributing cars and locomotives in order to meet such emergency. With these powers granted and duly exerc-ised we think many of the evils from which the country has suffered in years past may in a large degree be eli.ninated.

In section 402 we treat of extei13ions and abandonments. We believe one main can. e of the so-called n weak sister" bas been the unrestricted right of railroads to be bni1t wherever their projf'ctors thought fit. As a result of this unrestricted right we find in all States of the Un1on cases where, after a road has been built and long maintained and has gotten its traffic well establiRhed, another road puts in n parallel line with tbe usual result that instead of having one strong road doing the traffic we have two weak roads, as they have to charge the same rate between competitive points, and we burden the · public by compelling it to sustain two weak roftds wher. one strong road would have been sufficient. ·

How does this bill stop that? In this way: Before a road or an extension thereof can be built it must get what is called in this bill a certificate of convenience or necessity from tl1e commission as a condition precedent to the building of a single rod of the extension or of the new line. That means that the commission . must first Investigate the situation. It must first consult the communities that would be connected or would be located on the proposed line. It mnst consult the shipping interests and producing interests and all other interests that might be involved and then determine whether or not it should 1ssue a certificate of convenience and necessity.

This is not new law. Several of tl1e States have this same kind of law now, notably the State of New York and the State of Wisconsin ana other States, and the law bas worked successfully. It has prevented the construction of new lines that could not by any possibility have any hope of meeting operating expenses, not to say anything about profits. It would prevent the con. truction of some of these short lines w~ich may

.

have no hope of ultimate financial success. In every way we have felt that this provision wonld lessen the number of " weak sisters,'~ would prevent tbe creation af any new ones, and would strelle,otllen the existing lines. We can get better servtce by strengtbtming the e..'tisting line than by creating a rival or parallel line which would diminish the ability of the first line to make further improvements and betterments. Wo have also provided for abandonments.

Railroads sometimes desire to surrende1· the rights gt·anted by their charter. The traffic is not what tbey expected, business conditions change, the natm·al resources they thought first to get out to the open market become depleted or become exhausted. There is no power now to restrnin abandonment under Federal law. Bailroads in many States can do as they will. We provide that there shall be some F-eueral control over the matter of abandonment, so that cities and villages that have been built up on these lines can be given due con· sideration by .the regulatory body before the order for abandonment is issued. We give snch control to the commission to investigate the situation and determine the facts. But neither provision, the building of new lines or the abandonment of old Qnes, affects spurs or switches or te1·minal tracks or interurban lines wholly within a State. These we leaYc to State conn·oi. where they already belong.

The section in this title as to terminals I have a.lready dis· cussed sufficiently. I therefore wiU not dwel1 longer on that, only to say that we give the commission the right of determining the just compensation for the use of these terminals. You can understand why a railroad which has an advantageous location and .has ertensive terminals desires to retain the exclusive advantage of its own foresight and expenditure. That is natm·nl. But the public intere..~ ts a larger interest than that of any corporation so we provide tn this bill that the commission sllall have the right of ordering the joint use of terminals under certain conditions, providing for terms of ad· justment and compensation. . There . is aaotller provision contained in Title IV, relating to consolidation and pooling, which I have already sn1ficiently; discussed. It is found in section 407.

We amen<J the Panama Canal act in this bi11 and this amend· ment may be found in section 408. Under the original Panama Canal act, as you know, aU railroads that had water lines were compelled to diYorce the ownersbip between the rail line and the water line where use was made of the Panama Canal, the thought being that this divorcement was necessary so that a railroad should not be competing with itself. But that evil that we sought to remedy in the Panama Canal act became applicable to alJ of the United States, and so as a result of the Panama Canal act, primarily designed to cause a divorcement of ownership between rail lines and water lines using tlia Panama Canal, it has been made applicable to like conditions all over the United States, in consequence of which certain railroad lines operating in Maryland, for instanc , bad to sever their ownership in boat lines operating from port to port along the eastern shore of Chesapeake Bay, and, likewise, vessels owned by rail carriers operating in !Amg Island Sound were com. pelled to divoo·ce the ownership, although those ve sel lines were a great convenience to the public. For a like reason the rail carriers like the Erie, the Pennsylvania, the New York Central, the Lehigh, and the Del a ware & Lackawanna, which own vessel lines operating on the Great Lakes extending beyond Erie and Buffalo, had to divorce ownership there, so that to-day there are only two vessels operating on the Great · Lakes owned by a rail carrier, and those two are owned by the Lackawanna road.

What has been the result? Cities on Lake Miclllga.n and the head of the Lakes have been injured by reason of this enforc~ ment of the Panama Canal act, which necessitated this separa· tion of joint rail and vessel ownership. We, in this bill, declare that the rail carrier can re tore its ship lines or vessels, and that there can be new shipping under tJ)e provisions of this section, so that there may be again restored upon the Great Lakes that splendid traffic service which existed there for years and which is now practically ended. We feel that we have done something of a .constructive kind by the insertion of this pro'vision in the pending bill.

Section 411 contains matter relating to docks and rails. Tho original Panama Canal net authorized the physical connection of the rails of the carrier with the dock. This bill gives tha commission the further power to order such physical connection between rail and dock. It also gives the commission authority to order the construction of a dock, the payment therefor to be made either by the water carrier or the rail carrier, or by both, and it is provided that such dock~ when completed, shall be con· sldered as a terminal and be- subject to all the rules and regula· tions· of terminaL'3. We believe that unless we can hn.Yo :{

1919. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE~ -· 8317 pllysicu 1 conncetion between rail and water carriage we can nqt coonlinate the service, and can not, therefore, promote a water traffic that will enu.ure. - If we can get the two connected in this way, anu the-n authorize the commissioi;l to establish joint rates and through routes, with joint bills of lading, we have gone a great way to reestablil:?h water transportation upon the rivers and canals of the United States. I certainly hope that this provision of· the bill may commend itself to your favorable consideration.

We also have a provisiqn giving the commission the right to fix minimum as well as maximum rates, and minimum and maximum joint rates, and minimum and maximum proportional rates, aml, in fact, the_ absolute rate itself. We give it all that power. There is an advantage in giving the commission authority to fix n minimum rate. The commis~ion has never heretofore had that power sinf'e the original act was adopted in 1887. We give ~t the right of fixing the minimum rate in order that it may mee~ some of the proble~ arising out of the long-and-shorthaul clause as contained in the fourth section. We give it the right of fiiing a minimum rate in _order that it may protect a water carrier against the destructive competition of a rail carrier. You know the story-you can read it upon every mile of every inland waterway of the United States-how the water carrier started, and then the rail carrier paralleled the river bank and made a rate so low that the water carrier had to abandon its line and its route, and after such abandonment the rail carrier raised the rate and the public was no better off and was, in fact, worse off than before. If the commission fixes the minimum rate. it can say to the rail carrier: "Thus far you can go, but no farther." '.fhe .water carrier must be permitted to live. To do this we must provide for the minimum rate.

We also provide 'for the enactment into law of what is popularly known as the decision of the Supreme Court in the Shreveport case. Where intrastate rates constitute an undue burden, advantage, preference, or prejudice against interstate rates, such rates are declared to be unlawful. ·we have incorporated. into law the decision of the court. When by reason of the low level of the intrastate rates an undue burden is cast upon the interstate traffic the citizens and the shippers of other States are compelled to pay higher interstate freight rates than they would ha\"e had to pay had that State enacted or put into force and effect proper intrastate rates. \\7e give this power of determination to the Interstate Commerce Commission, but in · order that the State commissions may have a proper hearing we provide that the State commissions may, to use a phrase of the street, " sit in " with the Interstate Commerce Commission. It can sit with the Interstate Commerce Commission; it can hear the testimony, and can present its full case through its legally constituted authority. It can present the full case, but the final adjudication is to rest with the Interstate Commerce Commission and not witQ the State regulatory body. We believe that this getting together of the interstate and State regulatory bodies will lessen the number of Shreveport cases, better the feeling between the interstate and the State commissions, and promote the commercial interests of the country.

In section 417 we provide a rule for rate making. There is a difference of opinion as to the necessity of putting a rule _of rate making into this legislation. The committee deemed it wise to insert such a provision to the end, I assume, that the Interstate Commerce Cominisslon might have some authority in the law to point to in case their decisions and findings should be criticised. There is danger in a rule of rate making in this that unless we include all the elements that enter into the problem we do not meet that problem and we may provoke litigation. This is the danger in any rule of rate making. My idea is that if there is to be a rule of rate making the commission should be authorizen to examine into the economy and efficiency in the operation of the carrier who seeks an increase of rates.

We also pro\ide for a suspension of rates. Under existing law, where an application for an. increase of rates or rate structures is made, not less than 30 days are allowed for such notice. The commission, under existing law, can suspend the rates so filed for a period of 4 months and then can extend .that period of suspension for nn·additional six months, making a total of 10 months of suspension. ·

· The committee believe ·that is too long a period. If the railroad is entitled to its increase, it ought not to be denied that increase for a period of 10 months, and if the shipper is entitled. to a less amount be. should get his relief more speedily. This bill provides that the period of suspension, instead of being a total of 10 months, shall be a total of 120 days. If the commission does not file its decision when those 120 days have expired, the increased rates wilJ go into effect nevertheless, with right in the commission subsequently to change or alter them in the same manner, as though the period bad not elapsed. Should

the commission finally decide that the increased rates were unjustified or unreasonable, the carrier is ordered to reimburse the shipper for such excess with interest. We believe that this provision, advocated strongly by the commission, '\\•ill appeal to you.

We also changed the existing law which requires fares, rates,, and charges to remain in existence for a period of two yeat·s after the determination of the commission. We provide no limit, believing that it is wiser to have no fixed limit. Some of the Shreveport cases were pending for practically two years. It is easy to conceive of a case that might continue for almost two years, and if the present law remained in effect it would mean that the rates established after long and expensive litigation might become operative for a period much less than the two years.

Mr. HARDY of Texas. Will the gentleman yield for. a ques-' tion?

Mr. ESCH. Yes. Mr. HARDY of Texas. I understand and approve thoroughly

of the idea of the committee in reducing the time within which the rate might be suspended to 120 days instead of 10 months, but where an application is made by a shipper for a reduction of rates has the committee done anything whereby he can get relief in less than the former time?

Mr. ESCH. .Any way that the shipper can get relief in case the rate should be less?

Mr. HARDY of Texas. In less time than 10 months. Mr. ESCH. I think that would be in the jurisdiction of the

commission, anyhow, as I understand . . Mr. HARDY of Texas. As I understand it, a shipper may

make application to the commission for a reduction of rates. Mr. ESCH. Yes. . Mr. HARDY of Texas. And that ha:1gs it up indefinitely until

the decision by the commission? Mr. ESCH. Yes. Mr. HARDY of Texas. Is there ·any way by which the time

for relief _to the shipper may be reduced as you have reduced it to the carrier?

Mr. ESCH. I do not think this section would meet just the situation the gentleman presents. If the geQ.tleman can think of any amendment that would meet his .particular view, I think we will be glad to entertain it.

I have only a few more things to say. Of these one is in regard to loss by diversion which is found in section 419. Diversion of h·affic by one carrier from another seems to have been a favorite outdoor sport of very wide participation in recent years; especially hns it been practiced against the so-called short-lme carriers. By diversion of traffic I mean this: A. shipper says in his bill of lading, " Send my freight routed by certain carriers via certain junction points to destination." But an intervening carrier diverts that shipment of freight contrary to the directions in the bill of lading to the loss of the first carrier or, as is often the case, to the loss of a short line. We say in this bill: "For such diversion of traffic we give you the right to sue for damages for the full amount of freight charges which you would have earned had the traffic not--- been diverted." The diversion of traffic is a matter from which the short line has suffered more than have the trunk lines and we think that by putting iil this sort of penalty provision we may stop such diversions or at least lessen the practice~

I wish to say a word with reference t0 the divisions of the Interstate Commerce Commission. A.:::; you know, by an act of Congress passed in 1917 we authorized the Interstate ComJ;llerce Commission to do business by subdividing its members into divisions of three members, in order to expedite the business and in order that there might be no delay in the handing down of decisions, and that the full field of their activities might be more completely and expeditiously covered. We made one exception, however, in that the division of valuation to make the valuati_on called for by the physical-valuation 'act, was made to consist of five members.

Since that act ~as passed, the committee believes that we can now safely reduce the size of the valuation division to three members a11d thus make it harmonious with other divisions now existing in the commission. Nothing will be lost, because decisions of the full commission on all principles of valuation under the· valuation act will still be assured. .Although the division of three will first makeJ:he investigation and ·rue tentative findings, the full commission will pass upon the work of the division.

In section 437 we cover what is known as the stock and bond. features of t~e bill. The House is familiar with this part of the bill, because on three prior occasions it has adopted almost this identical legislation : First, in 1910, when ''"e hnd this pro-

8318 OONGRESSION . .A_L . RECORD-HOUSE. NOVEMBER 11,

viRion attached to the Mann-Elkins Act of that year; again, in 1914, when the House pa. ed the uill containing provisions now contained in this bill , aga~ in 1916, when the gentleman from Texas tMr. RAYBURN] presented in a bill the same provisions We are now about to consider. His bill was reported favorably by the r.ommittee and passed by an overwhelming vote. All three of the-e effort of the Hou e failed in the Senate.

U 1JUr bill of 1914-and perhaps of 1910, but especially of 1914-bad been enacted into Law, in my opinion we would not have bad the shamefUl financial record of the Frisco, the Rock Island, the Pere Marquette, and the New Haven, had we given the commi .sion the power we seek to give it now. Hereafter, under this bill, there Rhall be no issue of stocks or bonds without a certification from the commission that they are necessary and needful in the public interest. .IApplau e.] It is a strange thing that a provision that was buffeted about, assn.iled! and denied even a bearing a few years ago should to-day be accepted and put into every plan that bas been presented to CongreRs. We feel that you will indorse this provision of the bill.

Again, we increase the size of the eommis i{)n, as I have stated, by 2 members, making n in all, and while thls will not permit, for mstance, an equal dh·ision into divisions in the first instance, -still we are advised by the commission that they can take one member off of an existing division and add him to the two new members and crente what will be known as tlle division of ecurity issue . We provide that the stock and bond p1·ovisions shall not _go into effect immeiliatel:y upon the enactment of the bill, because some time will be required for the appointment of the two new members and for organization af the new division of securities and getting it into working order before applications shall be filed with it. We therefore allow n lap of 120 day b~fore the stock and bond sections become effective. Conn·ol · of securities is going to be a large task. It is o-oing to be a task of great responsibility. We will have to hnve men of the highest character and financial experience upon this division.

Unuer all tlle circumstances we have felt that members of the Interstate Conlill(>rc~ Commission were entitleu to the sm:lll increase of salary which we grant, $2.000 per annum. Even then it will be no mor than the salaries that are being paid to the members -of the Federal Reserve Board, and th duties and responsibilities of the Interstate Commerce Commi ~sion are no less than are those of this board.

Again, we haYe put ilt :l provision in the 1ast section of the bill giving authority to the commission to install automatic train control or stop devices. 'V had considerable testimony bf'fore us to the effect that even 'railroads that are equipped with the be~ kind of automatic block signals h11ve fl·~quent collisions upon their lines because of a momentary inattention on the part of the engineer or the trainman or of the towerman or of the e1E:'<!trica1 operator. We believe that the time has come when the eommi sion can ~"ell be given the power. after full investig-ation, to authorize the installntion over any part or the whole ot an exi ting linE> of an automatic train control device. We do not compel the u, {)f any particular device; the comm.ission can fix the conditions. limits, antl specifications of such train control device and the c-arrier can make the selection and install a portion or a part or the whole of his line with such device under the supervision of the commis.sion. The cost is not prohibitive, and such devices have pas ed beyond the experimental stage. We therefore feel that we can ask of this Congre.-.s thnt authority be granterl to the commission to install such de\'ice upon the raih~oad~ of the United States.

Now. gentlPmen. I ha\e talked almost three hom·s. I have wear1ed myself and I have no doubt I have wearied you. I would be glad to yield to answer any questions, but I hope a full · opTmrtunity will be given under the .five-minute rule. [Prolonged applause.l

Mr. 8ThfS. Mr. Chairman, before I begin the discussion I would like to ask bow much time the gentleman from WisconsiJl u ed.

The CHAIR1\IA..~. Two hours and 32 minutes. Mr. RIMS. Mt·. Chairman, I want to take as little time as

possible to-day, as I can not do the subject justice in the time I shall c ~sume. Therefore, I ask unanimous consent to extend my remark in tbP RECORD for the purpose of printing some statistics and other matters that I do not want to take time to read. I did not put In a minority report, which I could have done. and in wbfch I could have included these matters. Therefore, I make this request.

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Tennessee asks unanimous consent to extend his remarks in the RECORD as indicated. Is there objection?

There was no objection.

Mr. SIMS. Mr. hairman, in beginning my statement, I want to give· the reasons why I have filed no minority report. In many of its provisions I indor ... e the bill that has been reported. I served on the committee every day during it: ses.sions, and I should say every hour of it, and on the subcommittee I mis ed only one day, and that was due to illness. To do justice to the gentlemen who served on that subcommittee, the chairman, 1\lr. EsCH, the gentleman from Mi-chigan [Mr. HAMILTON], the gentleman from Ma acbusetts [Mr. Wmsww], on the Republican side, and the gentleman from Kentucky [.Mr. BARKLEY], on the Democratic ide, I beg to say that I do not think that there ever was a more eamest effort, a more conscientious effort, made by any five men to try to serve the country's trans· portation needs in the best way that was possible to serve it through our efforts. [Applause.] I notified the chairman of the committee at the beginning that I was not going to play the rOle of a mere obstructioni t. l tried to live up to that pledge, and I am going to try to live up to it now. This bill unamende~ as compared to the Senate bill unamended, or as to any of the plans that have been proposed for private ownership and operation, I would accept most cheerfully this bill as reported in preference to any one of them. Tll.ere are some featm·es of the biU, however, that I wish to amend~ becau -e I think it would be better in the public interest that it should be so amende~ but of cour · e I shall take thnt matter up under the five-minute. rule. The Hou e has paid a compliment to the dlstin:pished cllalrman of this committee, 1\Ir. EsCH, eqlUl.l to, if not exceeding, .any compliment I have er known to be paid to any member in the 23 years of my ervice in this House, not only by the great appliluse that he received at the close of his remarks, and the compliment that was paid him by every Member tanding on his feet while we applauded him, but the highest compliment that coulu be paid to a man in charge of a bill was for the Members to it o quietly as they did and listen to everything he Bahl for nearly three hours.

I do not feel that I am worthy of sucb a compliment. I know that I shan not O'et it, but I do not care to wa&e any time here, and if "'entlernen do not want to bear me say what I think ought to be snid, I sh:lll not blame any gentleman for leaving the Hall, but I hope that even with a smaller attendance I may recei\e at lea. t good attention from those who remain.

This is a bill for the purpose of re toring the railroads to their owners for private operation~ Taking the bfll -as a who1e, it should be carefully con idered in view of the objects sought and the purposes contemplated. As good a bill as this is compared with the Senate bill, in the main, I do not believe that it is advisable to renu·n the raih·oads to private ownership and opez:Ution so early as the 1 ;t; of January next, and I will give my rea ons for SQ believing. I do not say that in antagonism to the bill as an operating measure for tbe t•ailroads when they arc returned to private operation. The distinguished chairman put in orne of bis time, not much~ howeYer; in discu ing the question of public ownership as presented in the Plamb plan. I want to say that I introduced that bilJ by request and I also offered to introduce any other bill propo ing any plan of railway solution, in ord1:-r that the committee mi:rht have jurisdiction and that we might have a hearinO' covering all of them. Tbe chalrman did give the proponents of plans an the heaYing they asked for. None were ignored. If the Plumb plan is a goou one, I am not entitled to any credit whatever, and if lt is a bnd one I am not responsible, unless merely introducing the bill by request makes me respon ible for it. I have never been so narrow ·that I was not willing to give everybody a fair opportunity to serve ·the public as best be could. I do not believe that any of the e plans or the present bill is or can be a permanent solution of the transportation p1·oblems of this country. There never has been a soiution through private ownership and in my bonest opinion there never will be, and why? Transportation should be furnished at its simple cost and nothing more. . Private ownership can not function without protits on the part of the inve tor. It is non. ense to talk about private ownership tf we do not couple with it profit upon the investment. becau e if you do not do that, then no person voluntarily is gojng to put any money into sueb a venture when he can put it omewbere el e where he can make a profit. Tran portation inherently, normally, and· neces~arily is a Government function, a Government duty, a Government ob ligation, and any private lndividnal, corporation, or as oeiatlon of individuals that undertakes to discharge a public function, a Gov~rnment duty, does S() on his own initiative, voluntarily, and at his own peril, taking all chances for profit or loss. Why does be want to undertake such a service? 'The theory of private ownership and operation of railways has been based upon the idea that public ownershJp and operation would be less efficient and more expensh·e. If it i less efficient

1919.

urul more e::q,ensive~ that is just as good an argument anti as cogent n rea on as any man can give for not favoring it. If a priv.ateowner ·ofa transportation sy temfurnishes transportation at le · cost than can the Government and more efficiently nnd make a pro-fit upon his investment satisfactory to himself, . why not let him do it? I am in fa\or of whatever "'i.ll give transportation at the least cost to the public arul in the most efficJent manner. We have bad in this country ·for about 75 years-I -do not remember just when the first railway wa built-private ownership and operation of railroads.

Nobody is against transportation by rail per se. He could not be. There wa no .Government control or regulation of railroads prior to the act of 1887. ·

I do not remember just wllen the :first State legislation with reference to control and regulation was passed, but I want to say that before there was any attempt at Government control and re.gulation there were receiverships too numerous to mention. It was a common tlllng for a railroad company to fail to meet its obligation and go into .:a hospital for financial recuperation-a recciYer. hip. Now, we can n~t lay blame on the State or National Go\ernments for what happened to the carriers before there "i\-as any law providing ·for regulation. Yet we had numerous Teceiverships, e-ven after the law of 1887 was passed and the courts had .more or less emasculated it by taking a way the authority which Congres thougnt it was -conferring on the Interstate ·Oommeree Commission. Finally, when Mr. Roosevelt became President, by one .of the largest popular majorities .any man up to that time had ever received, and without any platform pledge or party obligation to do so, he advocated strengthening the interstate-commerce laws so as to give the Interstate Commerce Commission some real p.owe.r. ··I know what was said :at that time. I was he~re; I know the talk that was had. Gentlemen would not say it {)n the floor of the House at this end of the Capitol or at tho other, but members of his own party were simply furious with him for advocating that which no platform of his paTty had committed him to. But nevertheless he stood ·like n. stone \vall and L dvocated in his messages to Congress at that time-and which \ViTI bear rending again and again-that real power hould be gtvcn. to the -commission. Finally, by rea-on of the great popular majority which he had reeeived be

fore d through the act of 1906. I Wa'S not -on the Committee on Inter tate and Foreign Commeree at that time. I attended the hearings h-eld uy the Senate committee upon the bill, which was afterwards kno·wn as the Hepburn bill. I heard everything that . w.a.R aiel, and what I did not b.ear I read. That is the first act that put real power in the Interstate Commerce Commission. Now, I want to say 'from the time the original act -of 1881 was · pas-·eu that no man can point to any :receivership of any raill·oad in whlch it '\\as either alleged or proved or even n.ttempte(J. to be pro\eu that the cn.u of tho· railroad's troubles or the reawn f-or its going into the hands of receivers wa.'3 due to either State regulation, State legislatiDn., or the a.ction nf n. State commission, or <ln-e to national legislation., national regulation, or the .action of the Interstate Commerce Commission. Now, .then., ·who was to blame for the receiverships, llimost by the hundreds, that came before there '"as :any legislation .on the subject of public control or regulation, and who was to blame since the act of 1887 for the numerous receiverships? Not so long back, .even before the Ew·opean war and before Government eontrol of railroads, there were at <me time about 40,000 miles of railroads in the United States· in the hands of receiver". Why! N.o ·stronger evidence could be furnished, irrefutable and undeniable, · that private ownership was a failure, and if it had not been there would not be annually an increased number of railroad hospital -patients. Did they afford transportation at the cost of service? No. They arc not asked to do it. Gentlemen have an idea that there is something acred about the dollar invested in railroads that i.e:; not sacred in any other form or character of transportation facilities. 'Why, look at the highways, look at your stree-ts everywhere in this country--all meams of transportation. They are paid for entirely by taxes at public -expense, maintained at public expense, and the user furnishes only the \ehicle or- equipment at private expense. The great investment in the highway is absolutely free. If we had never had public ownership of highwuys or public mvnership -of the hard-surfaced roads .e:x:cept by way of corporation ownership, operated at .a profit, and we were now proposing to abolish private ownership and operation of such fa-cilities of transportation the same howl would go up that is going up now. Why? There w.ould be much money invested in them upon which a profit was being made; there would be jQb holders that would desire to hold on to their jobs in all respects like the railroad. Job holders are howling- against G.overnment ownership at this moment. Public ownership never-comes as a mere matter of academic theory or ·advocacy, and it is not gQing

: '(-8319

to come in r-esponse tJo any mere academic tlisc.u sion. Do you kn'Ow up to this time I ha\e ney-er read a book on public ownership?

I h::tY'e read el"erythiug I could on the other ide that I had . time to read, bnt, of coul'se, uot all ,tho.t has been published 'On that side. I am of <>pinion that private ownership of ra.ilTon.ds in this counh·y will never de~lop it in eYery nook and eorne:r where it might to be llevcloped, because it can not be done with a _profit to inYestors and therefore never will be done. ThiN bill_, good as it will be if }Jroper amendments are adopted, will simply meet the fate of all former attempts that have been made with pri\ate ownership, becau e it is in the very nature of things that any mnn who invests a dollar in anything for what he hopes to get back in the way of profits is going to do eYerything that he can to get as large a _profit on hi im-estment as he can. Do you tell me that anybody who loans money .to a railroad company or buys stock in a railroad com-pany does it simply for altru.i tic purposes, simJ>lY to serve the public? Why should any ma.n do anything of that kind? W-e voted $200,000,000 in the last Congress .as aid to highway construction in the States out of th-e Treasm--y of the Unite<l States. Why did we do it? Because we rega-rded it as our obligation and duty to serve .a common -public interest. Why should n-ot private capital 'for profit eon 'truct these tran"portation facilities as do those who inn~st in I"ailroads? I ha\!e never rea.cbed rthe_l)oint to this lrour where I am willing to advocate both Government ownership and operation a . heing .absolutely necessary. Why? I have had it di..nrled into my -ear R long that in order to secure -efficiency of ervice priY'ate initiative was ab 6-lutely necessary. .Befoxe I ever heard of the Plumb plan or one like it in all its det..'l.ils., I Imd -reached th condusion .that the Government of 'the United Smtes would h v.e to nbsorb all the immoTable property of the raili·oads ot the conntry.

Why do I think so? The Government can accqnlre the right of _ way, the terminals, and all tlle real estate, all the immovable fixtures that belong to the .rai.lroau, which constitute about 7G per eent in value of all railroad property, nnd .collect n rental lfo1· u e of same that will reimburse the Gove.rmnent for every cent it will have to invest a small additional nm.ount suffi:cient to amortize completely and fully any indebtedness incurred in n rensomilile time. The Gov-eTrunent can. boi·row money at a cheaper .rate of interest than any indiYidual or rnilroa.d corporation, o:nd its pro_perty "ill not be subject to taxation. With 75 }ler cent of the. total investment in ruilroads :amortized .and forever Temo-re<l .from the cost of transportation, transportation can and will be much cheaper. As such ·an amendment is not germane I will not offer it to this bill, .as I know it w.ould be ruled out on a point of order, but I believe Government ownership to this extent will become absolutely necessary before many years, wllile leaving the railroads as owners of all equipment .and. mo-.·able fixtures, but providing that the Government of the United States :may lease to the present corporatioo , who will remain the· owners of their equipment, or to any other priv:ate corporation for opera~ tion of the raill·oads under such conditions and restrictions ·stipulated in the lease contracts as will -enable the Government to thoroughly control the commeree -of the country :and protect it from 'SUCh exploitation -as ha-s been .resorted to in the _past. The rights of way, terminal grounds, and all oth-er forms {)f real estate holdings by the railroads have gr~wn eil.ormously in v.alue by reason of the gmwth of the country, and the railroads are, under the la. w as .cOnstrued by the decisions of the courts, ·entitled to a r-eturn -on the mlue of all property held {)1' us.ed for · carri-er 1JUrp.oses. They r-eceive a r.etm.'Il on the communitY. value, the unearned increment due to community gr~wtb, the .same as they do on new money invested in additions and betterments. This unearned increment \alue amounts to hundreds of millions of dollars.

I do not think there is any doubt at this time that the terminal facilities of the railroads of the United States equal in value all the r-est <Jf their pr~perties. And it has been held by the Supreme Court of th-e United States, as I understand it, in the Minnesota rate case, that railroads are entitled to this enhru1ced value, unearned increment, and that such element of value must ' be considered in t·ate mn.king. Therefore they are entitled to a rate based upon value which they themselves have not contributed in any way. Now, if the Government acquires this real estate, it will not fm:ther burden the commerce of the country by way of increase in -value of the property due to unearned increment. It -ca.n not further be the basis -of additional issues of stock and .bonds upon whieh interest and ilividends must be paid. If the real estate holdings of the railroads aTe not taken , over by the Government, this elem-ent of unearn-ed value wlll :go on forever or as long as tbi! country gro'\\s. Then, as to an

83~0 • It

QONGRESSION.AL R.ECORD-HOUSE. OVE:i\IBER 11,

amortization fund, the Government must first pay it. elf out of rentals any interest which it has to pay on bonds that may be issued to acquire the property, then, in addition, a small amount, not over 1 per cent, perhaps, that will be used to amortize the property it has bought, and, when amortized, never thereafter to be considered in the making of_a rate, fare, charge, or classification. 'Vith 75 per cent of the present •alue of railroads elimmated without increasing the burdens of the shipper or consumer over and above ·what they would have to bear if the roads continue in private ownership and continue to collect a profit on all its ever-increasing unearned values. Now, this amortization has got to come about. You may . ay what you please, but we face the inevitable. This country will not very much longer put up with what it has in the past.

Now, what is the condition existing as to the capitalization of railroads? Except in rare and isolated instances there has been absolutely no amortization of railroad investments since the beginning of railroad building, up to the present hour. All the capital that has ever been invested in the railroads in any form remains to-day wholly unamortized. And as a result we have a capitalization pyramid reaching to the skies, but it is an in~ verted pyramid. This capitalization pyramid is growing wider and wider and larger and larger, higher and higher, all the time, at its inverted apex. But under the present plans and present theories of private ownership and operation of railroads. nothing is provided for amortization.· All the old capital remains in the pyramid and an the new capital is added to it. It is only a question of time when this inverted pyramid wi1I topple over, and terrible will be the crash. We can not prevent it if we go on in the future as we have in the past. No man that owns a farm that has a mortgage on it, and never pays the mortgage off except by giving a new one, can ever be regarded as a successful farmer, although his neighbors around him may be successful farmers and build up the community, and in that way enhance values in the community to such an extent that this particular farmer may be enabled to continue to renew his mortgage so long as the community continues to grow, but when community growth cea::;es, this man must inevitably be sold out of house and home. But, my friends, it being a Government duty, a Government obligation, a Government function, to furnish transportation, the Government is not and must not be at the mercy of Wall Street. It is not and must not be at the mercy of a lot of investment bankers that want just as many so-called refunding operations as possible to go on continuously and forever. The Government can issue its bonds without maturity date, so that it may redeem any bond at any time when its revenues from the railroads will justify it. . So in a comparatively little while, as the life of Governments go, this investment will be amortized. Then this investment will be free from taxation, as it ought to be.

Mr. GOODYKOONTZ. Will the . gentleman yield? Mr. SIMS. I will. Mr. GOODYKOONTZ. I was wondering what you would do

for the States. Would you not rob the States of their greatest resom·ces, namely, railroad taxes? ·

1\Ir. SIMS. Ye . But I would not call it robbery. The railroads have been robbed by everybody so far. I should rob the State, as you call it-using an offensive term-of taxing that facility, which in turn its own citizens have .to pay, not only the tax but a profit on the tax. If that is what you call "robbing yom· State," the sooner it is robbed the better. This does not prevent the State from collecting a tax. This plan will take the real estate-75 per cent of the value of railroadsout of ta.xation, but it leaves the equipment and the gross earnings of road , and many States to-day tax the gross earnings of a road in tead of its fixed property. Where does robbery come in?

1\lr. GOODYKOONTZ. If you are going to tax them in another fashion, how are you going to help your Government in maintaining a railroad system without taxation? '

~·Jr. SIMS. I said to the extent of 75 per cent of the whole present value of the roads, their immovable and fixed property.

Why do you not tax your highways, your public school buildings, your courthouses, your statehouses, your National and State Capitols? They are nothing in the world but public facilities. What is transportation? Trttnsportation is movement of persons and property. If you move the people and move the property, you perform the function. It is not necessary to move a man in a palace car in order to move him.

\Vhat do you suppose the lowest passenger fare is in India? Two-fifths of 1 cent a mile. In India, under government ownership, they have the finest palace cars in the world, and the entire fare paid by a passenger on a palace car, including rail haul and all else, amounts to 1! cents a mile. But it is almost nonsense to talk about other cotmtrie~. Othei· cotmtries know

what is best for themselve ·, and they are doing what they think is the best for themselves. France will own every railroad within her borders in 194D and get all the earnings. Germany makes a profit o_ut of her railroads. I do not think they ought to be run for a profit. I am not in favor of a profit or in favor of profit sharing in public service nece._ ary and e entiat to the life of a country. It will not work.

Over in Wall Street-and I use that word in no sen~e of prejudice-they are everlastingly and eternally discus ing the question of railroad credit. Who has destroyed that credit? I just want to show you a few facts about a little railroad in my State. It is not so little, either, but it ha never been in the hands of .Wall Su·eE:'t that I know of. I want to. bow yon th facts about it, and then just a few facts about other railroad.· that have had Wall Street help. The Nashville, Chattanooga 1.1·

St. Louis Railroad, in Tennessee running from hattanooga, Tenn., to Hickman, Ky., with branches, in 1917 owned and operated 1,237 miles. Part of that railroad between Na hvill~ and Chattanooga is of extremely expensive construction. There are tunnels ~m it of a mile in 1cngth or more througb granit mountains. There is a bridge across a river with an i land in H ;vhere the bridge crosses, making the briOge nece sarily long, aml

then it runs through the mountains in Georgia, extremely <:>xpensive of construction. West of Nashville, toward Hickman is the Harpeth River to bridge and the Tennessee Rh·E:'r to bridge-expensive construction. What do you suppose arc the outstanding stocks and bonds against this railroad per mile? The outstanding stock of the Nashville & Chattanooga Railroad, covering 1,237 miles, was on December 31, 1917, 16,000,000, total ; per mile of stock, $12,935 ; bonds out tanding, $10, 65, 00 · bonded indebtedness per mile, $10,400 ; total per mile, 23,335.

That road has been run from the beginning economically. Col. E. \V. Cole, when I was n boy, was president of that roa<l. He was a man who came up, I think, from the po ition ·of a ection hand. When be ceased to be pre ident J. W. Thoma'" ,

who was on the road at the time u.s general manager, was mnde pre~ldent and general manager. He continued in the footstep. of Col. E. ,V. Cole, the first president in the management of that road, and when he died his son, J. W. Thomas, jr., was clw::::en president and general manager; and although the Louisville & Nashville bought a controlling interest in it many years aO'o the management and policy continued to be the sam as it was through all prior years. At this time a son of Col. E. W. o1 is president of that road. A better railroad never serYed any p ople than that railroad. It has 'had no higher rates than any other road received for the same or like service. The management ha, always been and now is exceedingly accommodating, but the road bas bE>en managed so economically and in such a busiiw~.~like way that they have amortized much of the investment a .· thE>y went along instead of issuing more bonds and stock. Instead of going to Wall Street they amortized their debt for capital expenditures until to-day that road has · only . 23,000 per mile capitalization, both stock and bonds. No man who was president of that road ever received com pen ation a.· much as $20,000 per annum. Mr. Milton H. Smith, pre. jdent of the Louisville & Nashville Railroad Co., was, I believe, gen. eral manager of it for many years prior to becoming its pre. ident. He is one of the ablest railroad men in the Unitefl States from a practical standpoint, in construction, operation, and in every other respect, and he never received at any time during his long years of service over $25,000 a year alary, and when the Government took over the ralroads his salary wn. only $20,000 a year. .

Now, look at some of the lame-duck roads and ·ee how they compare with the Nashville & Chattanooga and the Lomsville & Nashv1lle. I do not call the Baltimore & Ohio Railroad a lnme duck; I ought not to so designate it; but let me tell you it has got the disease of overcapitalization, and if not cured it i going to die. What is the capitalization per mile of the Baltimore & Ohio, one of the oldest and best railroads in the country? Ninety-eight thousand nine hundred and seventy-nine dollars in bonds or fixed indebtedne ·s per mile, and silock, per mile $44,625; total of both, per mile, $142,804-double a. much bond as stock.

Now, look at its stock quotations to-day; >Yay below par, both common and preferred. 'Vhat do you suppo e the railroad paid its president as salary tluring the year 1917? Seventy-five thousand· four hundred aml eighty dollars. While this road is not in the hands of a recei'Ver, it is suffering from the disease of overcapitalization. What caused the road to get in that shape? Why did it not economize and pay less in salaries and pay more o:( its maintenance and improvement expenses out of earning-?

Now, let us take a look at the New York Central! I am comparing our little Nashville & Chattanooga road with great roads. The New Yorir Central is one of the best roads in the country,

1919. CON·GRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 8321·

nnd serves the best portion of the United States with great freight and passeng.er traffic. 1 now read from a publication by James 'H. -Dlipbant & Qo., m:nroadway, New York,.entitled JU The Earning Power of Railroads, 1918-19," as to the mUeage of the system, its stock issue, ·and bonded and other fixed-interest obligations, ns follows:

'll"'eto York Oentml Railroad.

Year.

190 . . . •••••'• ••• ••••• ••u•• ••••• •••••••••••-1909 •.. _.,_ •••••••••••••••••••••••• ··-···· ••• 1910 •. • oo o • o o • • ••••• • o • oouo••• •••••• •• ••

1911. .•• ••••••••.••••••••.•• ·····-········-·· 1912 ..• ·-····· ••• ···-···-··. ··-- ···-·--- •.• 1913 •.. ··-- .................................. . 1914 ...•••••••••••••••••••.••••••••• --···- ••. 1915 ....••••..•.....•••........•••• ··- •••.•.. 1916 ... ·········-· •• •••••••• ·······---···· .•• 1917 . . .•• · ••• ·-· •..•• ·- •• - •.•.•••••• -- ••••.••

I Average

miles op~rated.

Gross.

$83, 927, 354 93,171,861 99,908,~78

103,9M,863 '109~ 900,015 116, 904, 304 112, 741, 051 167,912,333 201, 585, 049 216,267,517

Surplus.

$8,931,600 13,695,420 14.,288,672 15,304,«9 1:3,879,837 13,243,b58 8,688,672

Z7,711.47. 115,659,217 25,599, "220

1 On January 1 1915 the New York Central & Hudson Ri.-er R."R., the Lake Shore & Michigan sou'thern Ry., the .Qhicago, Indiana & Southern R .. R.,an~ several minor lines wero consolidated as the New York Central R. R. Tbis e:xplams large increMe in mi1ea.ge, etc.

STOCK OU:I:STiYDil\G DECEi.\iBER. 31, 1917.

Con1n1on------------------------------------------- $249,849,360 ,'tocl{ per mile of road operated---------------------- 43, 949

BONDS OUTSTANDING DECEMBER 31, 1917.1

Fixetl interest - -------------------:..---------~-- 632, 081, 000 F,qlripment------------------------------------ 4~ 584, 086 Notes due :1.919 (5 per eent) ------------------------ 1.5, 000,000

This-statement shows tlrat the New Yoi:k Central in 1.917 had a fixed indebtedness liability of $690.665,086, -equaling $121,489 per mile -of 1·oad operated, and $43.949 stock per m.i1e of road operated, constituting a stock and bond capitalization of $165,-338 per mile of line. How does the-stock and bond capitalization compare with the Nashville, Chattanooga & St. Louis Railway, with its total capitalization of $23,335 per .mile of road, consisting of stock $12,935 per mile and bonds of $10,400 per mile? Its total mileage in 1917 was 1,237 and its total bonded indebtedness being $12,86.1),000 and its total stock bcing 16,000,000, total" of both being· $28,865,000.

Does the statement of the New York Central indicate good management'? It presents an object lesson in private ownership and management with public -regulation. Let us take a look at the Seaboard Air Line, more or less a lame duck. If I recollect aright, its president gets $40,857, and another distinguished gentleman who has been before our committee very often receives $50,000 for being chairman of the board of 4irectors. Now, what under heaven is the duties and services of a chairman of the board of directors 1 Wba. t does a chairman · of the b~ard of d.ir&'tors do in the way of ra.llroad operation? A number of railroads before Government control paid their presidents larger salaries than tbat received by the President of -the United States. and some of the lawyers were paid as much as $60.000 a yem.·. Such is the fruit of private ownership, initiative, and operation. Take the New Ha\en, the Boston & Maine, and the Maine Central-all lame ducks. These properties furnish a rather recent object lesson of Wall Street man· agement, after tbe prope:rties were all built up and were serving the country, and the stock of some of thei:n exceeded '$200 per share in market value. Now the New Haven stoCkholder gets something "OVer $32 a share. That is scientific private management directed · from Wall Street

Gentlemen, I offered an amendment in committee, .and I am going to offer it in the Committee of the Whole House on the state of the Union. Expense of operation is absolutely necessary. Therefore no expense as such should be incurr-ed not necessary to operation of the railroads in its carrier functions. Coal or other fuel is absolutely necessary in running the trains. Therefore the cost of coa.J is an expense of operation. The cost of labor that keeps the tracks in condition and that operates the trains constitutes a necessa-ry ·expense of operation. But show me what operative function any man can perform that is wort11 $75.000 a year. ·

One of these gentlemen, chairman of the executive committee of the board of directors of the Union Pacific, gets more than $100,000 a year. My friend, Mr. Kruttschnitt, a very ftble railroad man, chairman of the board of directors of the Southern Pacific systems, gets over $88,000 a year. There are no Southern Pacific lines in New Y.ork, nor east of the Mississippi River. How does it happen that the -chairman of the board of directors has to live in New York, linless the · directors live there and he must be close to them·?

1 Includes $100,000.000 G per cent debentures due 1935, convertible into stock at 105 to Apr. 30, 1925.

1 am going to offer in the Conimittee of the Whole an amendment that I offered in the Committee on Interstate and Foreign Co1nmerc.e, providing that the compensation of no railway official in e:.:cess of $20,000 .:a year shall be rnarged to operating rexpenses. I .have no objection to a man-getting $500,000 a year if he gets it Dut of net income, out of the fnnd that would otherwise go to the stockholders. If they need $~00,000 presidents, let them pay ~or them. The country does not need them. Now., look at the case of Mr. Hines. I want to compliment him. As an .o11icial 9.IMl employee of the Santa Fe during the ~ear 1917 he was receiving more than $75,000 a year, and was not president of the road. There is no question th:at he is one -of the ablest railroad men in every way in the United States. But what did he do 7 He came here and worked for the Government throughout the war for $25,000 a year, which wa.s $50,000 less than he was receiving from his corporation. He is still serving to-day for $25,000. He is operating all the railroads in the United States that have.been taken over by the Government, n.nd he is <;loing it emciently, economically, and successfully. Could he have done any more-tor a privately owned road? While he gets only $25,000 as compensation, he is willing to continue the sacrifice he is making in the interest of the public. But some of the other gentlemen jumped their Government jobs just as qnick as they could and went back to their old corporate service and, I suppose, at the old profiteering salaries. Now, I have no prejudice against these men. Many of them have come up from the ranks. But why should they receive such stupendous compensation and have it charged to operating expenses, and then complain that the railway labore-rs who actually perform the physical work," at least of operation, want more than they are getting? Why, my friends, if for no other reason than the effect that it would have on the morale of labor, this compensation should not be permitted to be charged to operating ~enses or considered in any way a fair charge to operation in rate making by any regulatory body. I am going to give you an opportunity to vote on this amendment when the time comes, and if you do not \Ote for that, or some other amendment looking in the sallle direction, I will offer .an amendment that you ought to vote for, and that is to pay the Interstate Commerce Commissioners $20,000 a year each. .They have to represent the side of the whole public against all these high-salaried men, 208 of whom receive ' $20,000 and up to a.s high as $120.000 a year., charged to op~ating expenses. For the sake of consistency do not talk about putting felons' stripes and handcuffs on men who get $4 or $5 or $6 a day for extrahazardous physical :md mentnl labor who may strike for higher pay and keep them off of men engaged. in the same service whose compensation exceeds, in some instances, $75,000 to $100,000 a year. lApplause.] If the ownet·s want to pay such ·salaries, let- them in excess of $20,000 come out of the net earnings which go exclusively to the owners, as they are .al· together responsible for the employment of these officials, and not saddle it on the consuming public under pretense that they are in any way necessary in operating the roads. A railroad official is a quasi public officer, because it is a public service that he is rendering. It is a Government function that he is exercising. The Attorney General of the United States represent$ the interests of the whole public, its UO,OOO,OOO people, yet he gets {)nly $12,000 a year. One of these railroad lawyers .gets ns high as $60,000 a year to represent a single system of railroads.. Do you belie;e the . stockholder.s would not be a little careful about tlrese things if even a part of it had to come out of theh~ "swag," to use a slang phrase? · .

Now, look at the difference in management These railway officials nre the direct employees of the owners, the stockholders. The bondh{)lders have nothing to say unless they have tlie \"'oting privilege. The stockholders elect the director~ and the directors employ the officials and fi.x their compensation, and the officials employ the wage earners. Therefore the stockholders have it absolutely in their power to stop this graft, for that is all it is. It looks like everybody. thinks they must be turned "loose on f.t railroad or its earnings in some way. The gentl-eman f·rom West Vuginia 8poke about robbing the States. I want to call his attention to .the way the States rob the railroads, and I am glad the gentleman is here. One State in tbis Union, tne State of New Jersey, collects $3,500 per mile per ,yen..r taxes on the railroads in that State, which is more than the net earnin-gs per mile of line of a great ·many 1·ailroads. · . .

Mr. GOODYKOONTZ. Does anyone demur to that procedure? 1\Ir . .SIMS. I i.llil going to discuss it in detaiL What effect

does it have? Several railroads run through New Jel"sey .tlJ.-at go through a number -of other States. Now, there are several railreads that run thl"ough New J~sey that also run through Pennsylvania or Maryland o'r Del:iwa-re or all these 'States. Now. if every State througlt.which ·one of these rnirroads l."UUlS collecteO. the same am(nmt of tax thaf N'ew Jersey collects, what freight

r

8322 CON_G-RESSION AL RECORD-HOUSE.

1·ate do you imagine they would have to charge the shippers in Jir. SIMS. The very momen_t the-Plumb plan was fiaspetl over order to recoup the e excessive taxes? , the wire gentlemen who n~ver rea.d it yelled out " ovietisru . There has been the worst kind of discrimination in the taxa- communi~m, sociali~;;m, taking the railroads from the owners and .

tion of railroads by many States as compared with taxes on giving it to the employees." Nobotf,y e'!er heard of this Associaother property in the same States. My recollection is that Texas, tion of Railroad Executives being called soviets or unions. But with the largest railroad mileage of any State in the United what is it but a union? Nobody ever heard _ of the AssoCiation States, has a t<)tal of taxation of $300 a mile of line. Little New of Security Holders or the committee headed by my pleasant Jersey, \Vhich you can nearly jump across from east to west. friend, Mr. Warfield, being called a soviet or a capitalist union. taxes the milroads $3,500 a mile of line. What effect does it have· What is it but a capitalist union? They were united to try to on the people thes<' roads serve other than the people of New grab all they can in cqnnection with reconstructiye legislation. Jer~ey? All the revenues of a railroad must pay all of its oper- What more are the Plumb plan advocates doing? ating expenses and charges, including taxE!s. · Now, I will read from the railroad statistics of the United

M1-. GOODYK0011.TTZ. Will the gentleman yielu? States of America brought up to December 17 by. Mr. Thompson . Mr. SIMS. Yes. as I find them in the Railway News and Statistics. He is a . Mr. GOODYKOONTZ. I want to inquire how much the State decidedly prorailroad man and the statlctics he·gfves·ru·e omcial. of Tenne ee collects in taxation of railrmids? · The ~e~t w.ay to have an idea of operating exi>enses is . to ·!mow

Mr. Sil\fS. It is very little compared ·with some other. States, what ratio they bear to gross earnings. The table in tbe·publi-I can not recall the exact amount. 1 do not think it exceeds cation referred to for 1917 is as fol~~ws: · · · _ - · $500 per ·mile of line. Some of these railroads run through three Sumtnary showing flropo·rtion of compensation ot employees to uro s or four States besides New Jersey that do not collect the large ~;;:r~~o~89~~a operating c;rpen. es, and operating ratio (o1· 20 ·vea1· , taxes that New Jersey does. · Al1 these roads must charge the same rates and fares as those paid by New Jersey people. As all e:\.--penses of operation by any one of these roads must come out of all its earnings collected from all the shippers of all the States on its lines, a~d its rates must be made with reference to all its income and all its expenses as a whole, the excessive taxes collected by New Jersey and which are all spent iri and for the benefit of New Jersey, in this way a part of New Jersey s local burdens are paid by people who do not live in New Jersey. But you may say, Why does not every State levy taxes equal to those of New Jersey? That is just what it is goin? to lead up to. 'l'hey will say that if this great State of New Jersey gets $3,500 per mile of line in its territory, why should not we have the same rate of taxation? I want to say to you that taxes on i.·ailroads have increased in States, counties, and municipalities out of-all proportion to taxes on any ·and all other kind-s of property subject to taxation. · · lUr. YOUNG of :North Dakota. New Jersey is a kind of a to11 aate, is it not? .

l\lr. SBJS. Yes; it enables New Jersey to get as a State what its people do not pay for in fun as shippers. The taxes on railroads are increasing all the time, and why should they not? The temptation exists everywhere to soak them. The railroads are 'privately owned and operated for profit and therejorc it is regarded by the taxing authorities that it is their duty to share in the profits by way of unjust and discriminating taxation.

What did the State of IlliDois do? We have a member on the committee from Illinois, a good and faithf-ul one. The New York Central wanted to mortgage its lines generally to get more money to use in its business, and it cost that railroau company not less than $250,000 "just to record this mortgage in Illinois.

Mr. YATES. Three hundred thousand dollars. Mr. SBJS. Three hundred thousand, the gentleman from

Illinoi , a former distinguished governor of the State, says. ·what operating transportation service was rendered by recording that mortgage? Was it not a pure, unadulterated rake-off sin1ply because Illinois had the power? There may ·have been a kick by the railroad company, but it went along and paid the bill. It .wanted .to buy the-balance of stock in the Lake Shore not owned l>y it, and in order to get the money had to give a mortgage covering all its lines of more than 5,000 miles, but less than 150 miles were in Illinois. That is one of the beauties of State regulation and control of -privately owned railroads. It is a fine thing for a State to do such a thing when all the sum so collectetl was to be paid out in that State. No such a tax grab could be made by a State if the railroad had been owned by the Government. ·

Now, I know, as far as I am concerneU., that it is nonsen e to expect that Go-vernment ownership will be adopted by this Congre ~ at this time becau e the raih·oa<l owners are not read~· for it nor the investment bankers and other holders of stockR and bonds \n the roads, and, as a matter of course, officials of . the roads are not ready for it, as they expect to resume their old jobs at the old salaries.

lllr. 1\fONDELL. Will the gentleman yield? _lr. SIMS. I am always pleased to yield to our leaver. Mr. MONDELL. Does the gentleman think that the people

are ready for it-just the plain, ordinary, common people? 1\fr. SIMS. If the plain, ordinary, common people knew the

extent to which they are being robbed unnecessarily, they would be for it. It is not a theory that confronts us; it is a condition. I am not for Government ownership simply in theory, but I belie-ve it is inevitable as a public necessity.

1\Ir. ~~O~DFJLL. ~fy question wa. not what might be some-· time.·.

Year.

1917, Dec. 31 (bw·eau) ...... .. .. . . .. ..... • ..... . 1916, Dec. ~1 (bureau) . ............. .......... . 1916, June 30 ~bureau) ••..•.....•.............. 1915, June 30 bureau) ..•••.........•.... . ..... 1914, June 30 official) ..................... . . . . 1913, June 30 (official) . .. ........... .......... . 1912, Juno 30 (official) .••.•••...•.•..•.... : .•.. lfl', June 30 (official) ........................ . 1· 10, June 30 (official) ..• -:-.................... . 1W:l, June 30 (officia l) ........................ . 1908, June 30 (officia l) ........................ . 1907, June 30 (official} ....... ... ............. . . 1906, June 30 (official) ................. ....... . 1905, June 30 (official) .................. : •..•.. 1904, June 30 (official) .••••••• •••••• •••••.•.•.. 1903, June 30 (official) ........................ . 1902, June 30 (official) ......... ... -·.~ •••...•. 1901, June 30 (official) ••• : .................... . 1900, June 30 (official) ........................ . 1 99, Juno 30 (official) .••••••••••..•••......... 1898, June 30 (official) •••.•.•.•••••...•••.•.... 1R97, June 30 (official) ........................ . 1896, June 30 (official) ........................ . 1895, June 30 (official) •••••••••••••••••••••.••.

1

Ratio com-pensation of labor to gross

earnings.

Prr cent. 43.71 41.09" 40.60 43.20 45.09

2 43.99 44.05 43.32 41.58 40.86 43.26 .41. 42 40.02 40.34 41.39 40.78 39.16 38.40 38.82 39.81 39.70 41.50 40.77 41.43

Ratio com-pensation of labor to operating eA--peDSes.

Pr-r cent. 61.78 62.63 61.99 61.33 62.37

163.29 63.49 63.10 62.75 61.79 62.02 61.33 60.56 60.40 61.07 61.65 60.56 59.27 60.0i 61.03 60.52 61.87 60.65 61.38

-Ratio

~~es~ to gross

. earnings.

Per cent'. i6.l !l iO.OI 69.9-3 75.l!j

I 75. ~ 173.52

73.62 72.54 ';0.00 69.00 ;a, 2.' 'i'0. 63 G9.2g f.9.82 ;0.91 69.20 67. 1 6 .00 67.90

. 77 69.0:} 10.90 70.6S il.l '

J Class I and II roads only. The commission did not report the taxes of Class JII road9 for 1913 and 1914.

2 Class ill roads wages estimated in 1913.

The above table shows that the ratio compen ation of lalJor to gross earnings in 1895 was 41.43 per cent, and was even ie .. · in 1916, covering a period of 21 years, and was only 43.71 per cent for the year 1917, the last year of private operation, oi· onlv 2.28 per cent higher than it was 22 years prior thereto. Tll same talJle shows that the ratio of labor to operating expen. . · for 1895 was 61.38 per cent, and only 61.78 per cent in 1917, 22 years later, and we had been in war for nearly a year ..

This table also hows that _ the ratio of expenses and taxe. t.o gross earnings in 1895 was 71.18 per cent, and in 1916 wa only 70.04 per cent, but rose to 76.15 per cent for 1917. This taiJle shows that the expense of operation chargeable to labor, compared with gross earnings, has been practically the same for n period of 22 years prior to Government conti·ol of railroad .

Remember that gross receipts measure actual performance, actual transportation, while net is anything that the robber management anu robber tax-grabbing States and municipalities lea' after they ·get th1~ough. Now, let us take the ratio of compensation of labor to operating expenses. Let us see how that hu.. gained. The ratio of labor. compen, ation to operating exr1Em: .;; in 1895· was 61.38 per cent and in 1917 it wa 61.7 . l oe.· that inuicate that labor is tl'Ying to rob the people?

::.\Ir. BLACK. :Mr. Chairman, will th gentleman yielll? Mr. Sll\1S. Yes . l\1r. BLACK. Is it not a· fac:t that the la t year which th

gentleman has read was 1917, n year \\'hen the Government <litl not have conh·ol?

Mr. SIMS. YeEl. Mi·. BLA.CK. A.ntl that that percentage for the year l' 1

is con. ·iderably larger than the figure. which the n-entlemnn gives?

Mr. SI:US. It may be, because the railroad . were th n und r Government control and operation, anu it was ''ar time, ex11en. es had to be paid of all kinds and at war prices.

}lr. BLACK. I am not criticizing the figure ·-- . Mr. SIMS. But we are returning the railroads to priYate

owner:hip and operation nft<>r th wnr, :11111 I nm only rPn1ling

1919. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 8323

: tati ·tics to show what they did before we were in war an<l when they were in private control. · ~Ir. BLACK. I merely called attention to the fact.

Mr. SIMS. Oh, certainly; that is all right. I am going to vote for tills bill to turn them back, with proper amendments, and if I do not get the amendments I may vote for it anyway, as it is so much better than the Senate bill. This bill as .a whole, unamended, is so far above the so-called Cummins bill as to be an angel of light in comparison with it. Therefore, I did riot bring in a minority report, as I thought it might be better to accept it than a bill similar to the Senate bill. Let us take a look at the ratio of expenses and taxes to gross earnings as shown in the table I ha\e read. In 1895 it was 71.18 per cent, and in 1916 it 'Y::ts even less-70.4 per cent. In 1917 it was 76.15 per cent after war expenses caine on. We were ' in the war that year from April G, but w·e did not take over the railroads until December 31, 1917. This table sho\\s that the increase in expense compared with gross earnings was about on a parity, and that there was no foundation, so far as labor costs went, for a demand for increase in rates, but rates were increased 15 per cent prior to taking over the roads by the Government.

Let me show you the other end of the line, by comparing the pay of officials with the pay of employees who earn their living

by the sweat of their brows-while the officials earn their living by the sweat of other people's brows. I use this same publica· tion--comparative summary of average daily compensation of railway employees by classes, the J·ears ending June 30, 1914, back to 1892. I am getting back to a period now when the war had no effect. Let us see how the increase in compensation of official employees compared with the increase in wages of all other employees. The average pay per day of railway officials in 1892 was $7.62, and was $16.06 per day in1914, an increase of nearly 150 per cent. It gradually went up all of the time. These are the high-salaried officials that the directors actually employ themselves, including general managers and presidents. Their profiteering salaries m~e charged up to operating expenses, just the same as the laboring man's pay is charged to operating expenses. On page 65 of the same publication appears the following statement as to average daily compensation from June 30, 1914, back to 1892 :

AVERAGE DAILY COMPENSA'IIOX 1914-1892. With every innovation in the system of reporting the number1 Classi

fication and compensation of railway employees, it becomes mcreasingly difficult to get a proper J?erspective in regard to this very important feature of railway statistics. In the next statement is preserved the record for the 18 classes into which railway employment was divided from the date of its institution by Prof. Henry C. Adams until it was superseded, in 1915.

Comparat·ive summary of average daily compensation ofrail'Way employees, by classes,jor the yea1·s ending June SO, ·1914-, to 1892.

I Switch- Tele- Em- All men, graph ployees other

General Other General Station Other Engine- Fire- Con- Other Ma- Carpen- Other Section Other flag- opera- account em-Yen . office station due- train- chin- shop- fore- track- men, tors float- ployees officers. officers. clerks. agent-s. men. men. men. tors. men. ists. ters. men. men. men. and and dis- in~ and

watch- patch- eqwp- labor· men. ers. ment. ers.

- --- - - - ---------------- - -$2.661~

--- !----11. nl 1914 1 2 ~official~ .• . $16.06 $6.48 $2.54 $2.33 $1.98 $5.24 12.22 $4.47 $3.09 $3.27 t!.20 Sl.59 $2.56 $2.35 $2.20

1913 1 ~ official ... 15.67 6.44 2.51 2.28 1.96 5.20 3.13 4.39 3.04 3.26 2.63 2.31 2.14 1.58 1. 70 2.52 2.37 2.15

1912 Tffi"'l· .. 13.13 6.32 2.50 2.20 1.89 5.00 3.0'2 4.29 2.96 3. 21 2.55 2.24 2.09 1.50 1. 70 2.47 2.37 2.10 1911 t official .... 12.99 6.27 2.49 2.17 1.89 4. 79 2.94 4.16 2.88 3.14 2.54 2.24 2.07 1.50 1. 74 2.44 2.34 2.08 1910 2 official . ... 13.27 6.22 2.40 2.12 1.84 4.55 2. 74 3.91 2.69 3.08 2.51 2.18 1.99 1.47 1.69 2.33 2.22 2.01 1909 2 official~ .... 12.67 6.40 2.31 2.08 1.82 4.44 2.67 3.81 2.59 2.98 2.43 2.13 1.96 1.38 1. 73 2.30 2.31 1.98 190 2 official . ... 13.11 6.27 2.33 2.09 1.82 4.45 2.64 3.81 2.60 2.95 2.40 2.12 1.95 1.45 1. 78 2.30 2.38 1.97 1907 (official) ..... 11.93 5.99 2.30 2.05 1. 78 4.30 2.54 3.69 2.54 2.87 2.40 2.06 1.90 1.46 1.87 2.26 2.27 1.92 1906 (ollicial) ..... 11.81 5.82 2.24 1. 94 1:69 4.12 2.42 3.51 2.35 2.69 2.28 1.92 1.80 1.36 1.80 2.13 2.10 1.83 1905 (official) ..... 11.74 6.02 2.24 1.93 1.71 4.12 2.38 3.50 2.31 2.65 2:25 1.92 1. 79 1.32 1. 79 2.19 2.17 1.83 1904 ~official) ...•. 11.61 6.07 2.22 1.93 1.69 4.10 2.35 3.50 2.27 2.61 2.26 1. 91 1. 78 1.33 1. 77 2.15 2.17 .. 1.82 1903 official) ..... 11.27 5. 76 2.21 1.87 1.64 4.01 2.28 3.38 2.17 2.50 2.19 1.86 1. 78 1.31 1. 76 2.08 2.11 1. 77

1902 rfficiall·· ... 11.17 5.(~ 2.18 1.80 1.61 3.84 2.20 3.21 2.04 2.30 2.08 1. 78 1. 72 1.25 1.71 2.01 2.00 1. 71 1901 official .•... 10.97 5.56 2.19 1. 77 1. 59 3. 78 2.16 3.17 2.00 2.32 2.06 1. 75 1. 71 1.23 1. 74 1.98 1.97 1.69 1000 official .... 10.45 5.22 2.19 1. 75 1.60 3. 75 2.14 3.17 1.96 2.30 2.04 1. 73 1.68 1.22 1.80 1.96 1.92 1. 71 1899 official ..... 10.03 5.18 2.20 :{. 74 1.60 3. 72 2.10 3.13 1.94 2.29 2.03 1. 72 1.68 1.18 1. 77 1.93 1.89 1.68 1 98 official ..... 9. 73 5.21 2.25 1.73 1. 61 3. 72 2.09 3.13 1.95 2.28 2.02 1. 70 1.69 1.16 1. 74 1.92 1.89 1.67 1897 ~official .•.•. 9.54 5.12 2.18 1. 73 1.62 3.65 2.05 3.07 1.00 2.23 2.01 1. 71 1. 70 1.16 1. 72 1.00 1.86 1.64 1896 (ofl!cial~ .•... 9.19 5.96 2.21 1.73 1.62 3.65 2.06 3.05 1.90 2.26 2.03 1.69 1. 70 1.17 1. 74 1.93 1.94 1.65 1895 (official .•.• : 9.01 5.85 2.19 1. 74 1.62 3.65 2.05 3.04 1.00 2.22 2.03 1. 70 1. 70 1.17 1. 75 1.98 1.91 1.65 1 94 tillcial~ ..... 9. 71 5. 75 2.34 1. 75 1.63 3.61 2.03 3.04 1.89 2.21 2.02 1.69 1. 71 1.18 1. 75 1.93 1.97 1.65 1893 official ..... 7.84 .......... ~ 2.23 1.83 1.65 3.66 2.04 3.08 1. 91 2.33 2.11 1. 75 1. 75 1.22 1.80 1.97 · 1.96 1. 70 1 9'2 official) ..... 7.62 ................. 2.20 1.81 1. 68 3.68 2.07 3.07 1.89 2.29 2.08 1. 71 1. 76 1.22 1. 78 1.93 2.07 1.67

1 Pay of general officers in 1913 and 1914 out of proportion because returns do not include Class m roads. Other officers included under general officers in 1892 and 1893. 2 A >erages do not include returns for switching and terminal companies since 190 . . . _

I in\ite your attention to this table, as it is ·n~ry illuminating. It . hows for the 22 years it covers, from 1892 to 1914, inclusive, that und('r private ownership and operation, with Government regulation, that the compensation of general officers has gone :f.rom $7.62 per day in 1892 up to $16.06 per day in 1914.

Other officers from $5.75 per day in 1894 to $6.48 per day in 1014.

General office clerks from $2.20 in 1892 to $2.54 in 1914. Station agents, $L81 per day in 1892 to $2.33 per day in1914. Other station men from $1.68 in 1892 to $1.98 in 1914. Enginemen, $3.68 in 1892 and $5.24 in 1914. lll.remen, $2.07 in 1892 and $3.22 in 1914. Conductors, $3.07 in 1892 and $4.47 in 1914. Other trainmen, $1.89 in 1892 and $3.09 in 1914. Machinists, $2.29 in 1892 and $3.27 in 1914. -Carpenters, $2.08 in 1892 and $2.66 in 1914. Other shopmen, $1.71 in 1892 and $2.36 in 1914. Section foremen, $1.76 in 1892 and $2.20 in 1914.

. Other trackmen, $1.22 in 1892 and $1.59 in 1914. Switchmen, flagmen, and watchmen, $1.78 in 1892 anll $1.71

in 1914. Telegraph operators and dispatchers, $1.93 in 1892 and $2.56

in 1914.· Employees, account floating equipment, $2.07 in 1892 and $2.35

in 1914. All other employees and laborers, $1.67 in 1892 and $2.20

in 1914. It appears in this summary that during the 23 years covered

by it that the increase in the compensation of general officers

LVIII--525

had be~n more than 100 per cent, while in no class of other officials and employees had the compensation increased to the same percentage, while, us will appear by inspection, some classes had practically no increase. This period was one of undisturbed normal conditions, and demonstrated clearly that the tendency under private ownership and control is to give in· creases in the compensation of general officers out of all proportion to all other oftlcers and employees.

If these railway officials, who are quasi public officials, would take their hands off the throats of the people, at least to the extent of not asking for all their princely compensation to be charged up to operating expenses, no doubt the effect on the morale of an other officials and employees would be very good and have a tendency to prevent any excessive demands on the part of all other officials and employees, who feel that they are being discriminated against in compensation.

l\Ir. BLACK. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield ? 1\Ir. SH1S. Yes . l\Ir. BLACK. I have not bad the opportunity yet to read this

bill thoroughly. Does it contain a provision that will permit some regulatory body to have control over some of the -unreason· able salaries which unquestionably have been paid? If it does not contain a provision of that kind, it certainly ought to.

Mr. SIMS. It does not. · I offered an amendment in the committee and it was voted down, and I will offer it again in the Committee of the Whole providing that not exceeding $20,000 per annum of the compensation of any railway official shall be charged to operating expenses or be considered in rate making. They can be paid what they please above that amount out of

8324 CONGRESSIONAL REOORD-HDUSE.

net earnings; I do not care how much, even ·up to $500,000, so repealed ifirectly, provitled the lntcrstato ,Cornme1·ce Oornmis· long as it is not include(~ in expenses of operation or considered sion, that the 1·ailroads always have denounced hccau e they in rate making. You all know one New York Central official, a could not use it, approves the mer'"ei~. Now, I am oppo eu to very <.UStinguished man, chairman of the board of directors, wbo that, nnd I am going to vote against it, und I am going to move wa getting $25,000 a year as chairman. to strik~ it out. I am opposed ·to the gunt·anty fea ture and I

He used to be a United States Senator. He bas made ·so am going to move to strike that out. What ls the r,~arunty many birthday anniversary speeches since he was 80 years old feature? It · is to 1et the standard 1•eturn continue for six that I have forgotten how old he is. He is not like Uncle JoE. · lnonths in behalf of all the railroads that make application and who never knew when to quit work ; we could properly charge file a rate -schedule for increases within 60 days from approval his salary to "expense of opeTation," as it is so meager in of this act. Now, my 'friends, if we m-e going to . continue the proportion to the benefit the Nation gets out of the work he standard 1'-eturn as a guaranty, we ought to contim1e Govern· does for his . country. But here is a man who is paid $25,000 ment control of all the roads. If some of tllem earn more than as chairman of the board of directors. Pray tell me what the rental charge, it will help to take care of the lame duck service be renders or can render at his advanced age that in that does not make the tandard rental. But uncler this bill it justice to the shippers of the New York Central to charge to is only the railroads that make application and file ch.:>dules expenses of operation? If it is intended as an old-age pension, for rate increases that get the guru·anty. What railroads will all wefJ and-good, but it should come out of net earnings. apply? The Union Pacific ~ill not apply, because it is paying

1\Ir. Chairman, I do not understand why the directors of a 35 per cent to the Government in excess of the standard retmn. railroad company have to have a chairman that receives a As long as the Government continues control of the railroads princely salary. I had supposed that a chairman of a boa-rd we have the absolute a surance from the Railroad Admini t raof directvrs of any corporation was one of the directors elected tion that the rates wiJl not be fu1'the1· increased by the Go,ernfol' the position more in the nature of a compliment tl1an any- ment. thing else. What service does he render that entitles him to Mr. ALEXANDER. Will t he gentlcmnn yield? receive a salary in excess of that paid the president of the 1\fr. SDIS. I will. same railroad? I · have often hea1·d that there was a custom l\1r. ALEXANDER. I under tantl the gcntieman's position to that had grown up in New York City to pay $20 to a director be that if the guaranty continue-that is, the guaranty for a of a railroad company and pethaps directors of some other period of six months-that must be based on the earnings of corporations for each directors' meeting that he attended. I all the roads and not simply on the raods that may apply? have also h~ard that directors' meetings are nearly always held Mr. SIMS . . Yes. at night, and that often directors, or some of them, by putting Mr. ALEXANDER. Ju t as now the Government pool .· all on high speed are ·enabled to attend a large number of meetings the earnings and guarantees a standard return? on the same ni~ht, thereby raking in a goodly sum of operating Mr. SIMS. Yes.

· expenses without losing any time from their business in daytime. Mr. ALEXANDER. If it is limited to those who apply, When I first heard of this custom I supposed it was intended those who make Jargc .returns will not :partiai.pate in this as tips to the pauper members ·of the boards of railroad direc'tors, guarancy·? who would not otherwise be ahle to pay street car fare and won.ld l\I1•. Sil\lS. Yes; the Government stands nn tbe loss and gets ha\e to w.allt, nnd tl1at ha\'ing to attend so many meetings in none of the gnJn. Is there any man in this House, Democrat one night would impose too much walking on directors who might Ol' Republicah, on nn issue ·like that, will go before the people be 80 years old or older. I am told that some of the pauper ne."'rt year and defend his -action to their satisfaction? It is a directors never 'know when to die. -suhsidy pure and simple, and not like the proposed ship sub·

Now, l am thoroughly in accord with Mr. Esca's program, sidy, t11at was intended to build up a merchant ·marine that did With a few exceptions. 1 am not in favor at this time and not exist. w·e have the railroads now. and this subsidy has no mn.y n:ever be of amending or repealing the Sherman anti- excuse of the kind that was ·urged In behalf of the proposed ship trust law so as rto nullify the Supreme Court's decision in so subsidy. But now we must help the New Hnven and the Bo ton runny cases, especially the Northern Seeuriti('S case. I ·am alE;o & Maine nna the l\faine. Central on account of their troubles tbat QIJposed to permitting mer~ers, nod also to repealing the anti- ~all Street got them into at a time when there was no excnso pooling laws. The only competition we now have left is com· for ft at an ex<'ept greed. Do you remember what President petition In service, and now we are asked to let them merge Cleveland said? He said, in substance, " Good intentions and their properties or pool earnings and thus destroy even the ·idle patriotic .aspirations can not contend .for tho mastery little service competition remnining. In 1912, I believe it was, against the combined efforts of avarice and gr-eed." Never was wl1en l\1r. 1\!A.NN, who never slacks on any job and who did more a truer statement made on earth. Here is proposed a pure ubin the way ·of hard and lavish work 1:bat others wm not do sidy for six months. Well, I offered an amendment in the than ·any man I ever knew, was chairman of the committee, -committee to strike it out. We provide for loaning money to during the administra_tion of Mr. Taft, there came in a bill them direct, if they need it. Now, we in this bill propose to introduced by then Representative ToWNSEND, now Senator .pay them for six months a sum equal to the difference in what

· 1!'0\\fNS~lW, backed by the adm]uistration and supported by Mr. they make and the standard return, wbtcb is an absolute gift, Wit'ker ham, n very .able man, who was the Attorne.v General, nn ob~olute donation; it is the worst fot·m -of subsidy; it is not thrtt proposed to let railroads consolidate, which provided that done in aid of a new industry. the contract consolidating the roads must be submitted to a I am in favor, though, and shall offer an amendment along United States court in the form of a moot-trial proceeding~ that line, of forbidding any foreclosure proeeedings ·ot• the levyand unle s folmd by the court not to be in violation of tbe ing of executions or attachments upon any railroad property fol' antitru t laws it was not to go into effect. 12 months following the r~lease of the railroads from public

1\Ir . . GOODWIN of Arkansas. The gentleman means 1910. control. I will offer a moratorium provision to prevent the en-.i1tr. SIMS. We \.vere not in po\ver then. forced sale of ·any railroad p7operty .for one year. Let us pro-1\lr. GOODWIN of Arkansas. 1\lr . .l\i.A.NN was not chairman of teet them from the avaric~ of those who would foreclose mort·

the committee then. gages on . them at the very time they are least able to pay their ' l\lr. SIMS. TI1e election was in 1912, was it not? indebtedness. I offered it in ·committee, but it was not adopted. i 1\lc. H.A..RDY of Texas. In 1909 he submitted t1mt. I am opposed to any Gov.ernment guaranty in. any form or by 1 1\lr. SIMS. l\Ir. Taft was President. ·when did we win the continuing to pay a war rental with no war use of the roads.

Sixty-second Cong-ress? 1 The war has been over 12 months .to·dayl so fa1· as concern hos· l\Ir. HARDY of Texns. The Democrats came into power in the tilities.

lower House in 1\Iarch, 1911. What are you gentlemen from Iowa going 'to say? -One gentle•1

l\1r. SIMS. 1\ir. Taft was President nt the time I refer to. man from that State is on the .committee, a fine man and an effi- ' Mr. GOODWIN of Arkunsus. But .M:r.' MANN was not chair- , cient Member. What is he going to say~ The priee of hogs has ,

man of the committee. gone <lown $10 a hundred and the price of co.rn 50 cents n bushel. 1\fr. SIMS. The gentleman is rightj but the date means Is be going to ·vote for o. law continuing wa1· prices for and in

nothing. But it was proposed there that a suit in court on the behalf of railroads, to be paid by taxation, with the war prices facts or tatement of facts should determine in advance that of Iowa farm products going down every day? \Villlle do this the merger did not violate the Sherman antitrust law. Now, in behalf of privately owned and operated railroads? What do by this ·bill we propose to repeal the railroad part of the Sher- r you n.ll from Iowa think of such ll Bub idy as this at such a ' man ln.tv, that ·part \vhicb prevents mergers and pooling. We time us this? You will hear from those Iowa farmers if you

1 l'efused to repeal it at the .time I referred to, or even to go as 1 vote to pay a war-time subsid~ 18 months after -the war ls over far in that :direction as did the Town end bill, although -backed · and after the privateJy owned .and ·privately operated railroads by the then Republican administration. Now, you want the ·are no longer performing any war service and t11e farmers havc

1 Sherman antitrust Jaw, in so far as the railroads are concerned, to pay war taxes in order to pay, after war purposes and neces-

1919. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-. HOUSE. 8325_ sities no longer exiSt, in order to pay this subsidy, with eYerdeclining prices of their products.

Now, there are a few other minor amendments that I expect to offer. · I hope we can depend on Republicans to save the Sher

: man antitrust law, as they claim it to be a Republican law. They have preached it from the housetops. Are they now going to take a backward step? But I want to say to all my friends on both

·sides that I think the best thing we can possibly do for the good ' of the whole country-and that is what we ought to favor-is to provide that Government control shall continue until December 31, 1921, or until Congress otherwise orders. We are not going to get any bill passed by the 31st day of December next unless

· the Senate takes up this bill and passes it with practically no consideration, which would not be a wise thing to do and riot in

·keeping with the way the Senate does, by any means. Now, we ~ ought to pass a little bill, which I introduced, to continue Government control and operation of railroads until December 31, 1921,

·with the present guaranty, which is the highest rate of net return the railroads ever had in any three years of their existence and receiving it after the war and with no war services to perform, or until Congress otherwise orders.

Now, why do I want to put it off that far? I know that Congress cnn not and will not pass this or any other comprehensive bill by the 31st of December, 1919.

1\Ir. YOUNG of North Dakota. Will the gentleman yield? -1\fr. SIMS. Yes. Mr. YOUNG of North Dakota. Would that cost more or less

than the six months' guaranty you have just been speaking about?

l\1r. SIMS. In just a minute. I want to show the impracticability of securing wise legislation in 1920. The States will be instructing delegates to a national convention by possibly as early as March, April, and l\1ay. We will have perhaps all national conventions not later than the month of June. · Issues will be made upon these questions and then the whole problem will go into politics in spite of anything that anybody· can do. When politics goes into business, business takes a back seat. To-day no railroad legislation can be had that will secure the best results. With the election of 1920 over, and with a new administration, oe it Republican or Democratic, or mixed, and with n new President, with one-third of the Senate new, and all the House new, and the platforms of all parties having been considered and passed on by the voters, which will have its eff-ect so far as public opinion is concerned, and then when none of us are candidates for reelection and none of the Senato-rs are c:mdidates for immediate election, let us have an extra session-and we will be sure to have it; if a Republican Congress and Republican President are elected there is no <loubt about it-let it be called to meet just as soon after the 4th of 1\farch as possible, and then-· take up railroad legislation exclusi"'ely at a time when nothing but the country's conditions

roads to their mvners, but would not come if Government control continued.

After this bill is discussed and amentled in Committee of the Whole I will offer as a substitute the bill I have mentioned, if not subject to a point of order,· as being the best thing that we can do that will not result in an increase of rates and without danger; at least with less danger of bringing about further labor trouble. Let us give the country time to become tranquil, and let us act after the elections of 1920 are over at a time when we· can act solely and alone from what appears to be for the best interests of the whole country.

Mr. Chairman, under date of I\oyember 1, I atldt·essed the following letter to the executive committee of the National Plumb Plan League, wtth headquarters in this city. A copy of that letter I now make a part of my speech : EXECUTIYE CoMMITTEE OF THE PLUMB PL..iN LEAGUE,

Washington, D. C. DEAR Srns : As I introduced, by request, the bill now called

the Plumb plan bill, I naturally have many inquiries as to just what is intended to be accomplished by its enactment. I do not feel entirely competent to reply to such inquiries on my own responsibility; therefore, I ask you to give me a succinct, but plain and easily understood, statement of what is expected to be accomplished by the enactment of the Plumb plan bill, as I want to use it in making replies to any and all inquiries along the line I have indicated.

Very truly, yours, (Signed) T. ,V. SIMS.

· I r ecei\ed the following reply to my letter, signed by our former colleague, Hon. Edward Keating:

THE PLUYB PLAN LEAGUE H.EdDQU.A.BTERS,

Hon. THETI:s W. SIMS,

MUNSEY BUILDING, Washington, D. C., No1:ember 5, 1919.

Ho~~rse Office Building, lVashington, D. C. 1\Iy DEAn JUDGE: The members of the executiYe committee of

the National Plumb Plan League have asked me to reply to your letter of November 1, in which you ask for an " easily understood statement" of what its sponsors hope to accomplish through th~ enactment of the so-called Plumb pljln for democratic control of the transportation system of the Nation.

Perhaps the best way to get at the issue would' be to ask ourselves a few frank questions and to endeavor to make equa_lly frank replies.

Why did the Federal Government take over the railroads? What is the status of the railroad problem after two years of

Government control? What is the Plumb plan, who are res1-lonsible for it, aml what

do they hope to accomplish? and the general public interest is to be considered and acted on. WHY RoAns WERE TAKE~ ovEn.

In the meantime there will no doubt ·be a tranquilization of The Federal Government took over the railroads in the "inter labor disturbances so prevalent at this time. Labor will have of 1917-18, because private ownership had utterly collapsed. passed through the reorganization stage, Wall Street will have That may seem a strong statement, but an examination of the passed through its reorganization period, the Members of the facts will reveal that it is entirely truthful and conservative. Hou e and Senate will have passed through it. Then, if we are The United States became involved in the World War in the

·going to have private ownership we will have the time necessary spring of 1917. Our associates in Europe told us frankly that . · to make the bet of it that· we can. If we are going to have they needed food, munitions, and supplies of all kinds, and that

·public ownership we will have time to consider it and make the unless we could meet their needs promptly and generously they best of it that we can. 'Vhat will take place between now and could not hope to withstand the attacks of the German hosts. that time will be the greatest source of enlightenment. By The Government appealed to the railroads to do their part in . passing my bill there will be no ftu·ther general increases in I getting the materials required to the seacoast, so they might be '

' freight rates for the farmer to par during this period of falling transported across the Atlantic. Private ownership ''as in com-prices for all he produces. plete control and was receiving the aid and encouragement of

':rhe Government made $22,000,000 clear in September in ex- the Government; yet it broke down at practically every point. cess of the standard retnrn. It will not make it each month, Finally the President of the United States received an imbut for the next year it will no doubt make a large surplus with perative cablegram from the premiers of the allied powers, statnormal conditions. We know if we pass my bill and the Presi- ing that instead of making good on our promises we had only dent signs it, which I have no doubt he will bl:' glad to do, we delivered about 50 per cent of the tonnage guaranteed. will have two years, if we want it and need it, in which to leg- They made it very clear that unless we could redeem om· islate. At least, we will not be working under pressure; not un- promises the allied cause was seriously jeopardized. der forced draft. 'Ye are all anxious to go home, breathe u With this Macedonian cry ringing in his ears, the President little fresh . air out of ·washington. This is not the way to msh took over the railroads, and almost instantly the stream of supthrough legislation like this, under special rule, with whip and plies for Europe grew in volume and eventually it surpassed the spur. The committee has done its duty faithfully. I have no most optimistic estimates of those in authority. complaint to make against- the committee, but I have the amend- Here is a fact that those who sneer at Government ownership ments that I ha-ve suggested to offer, and there ma.Y be some should bear in mind: For the greater part of a century private others that may be offered, and if the bill is amended as I tllink ownership had control of the railroad systems of this countryit ought to be I am going to -vote for it as the best thing that it · was the recipient of special privileges valued at billions of can be enacted at this time. I told the chairman when it was dollars-and yet when subjected to the supreme test of war it first introduced that I thought it was the best solution for pri- failed. vate ownership and. operation that. could be passed by both _ And here is another fact that should be borne in mind: While Houses of Congress by January .1, 1920 . . But general increases the National Railroad Adminish·ation has been guilty of many in freight rates woulcl certainly come with the return of the blunder~, and some of the responsible officials of extravagances

/

8326 CONG.RESSION .A.L. RE.CORD~ liOliSE. NovEMBER l,

that· border on criminaHty, nevertheless,. hiSto~y wiW record! tliati : The Pl\trnl}. pla-11 was· suBmitted· ro t-heo retn~esent'at1'Ves~ of tUleGovernment control succeeded where private own.ersbijf; bad= : 14 railroad organizations, and. after· montl'is · of; study· and. many. failed. : amendments• was. unanimously ·indersed . . Since.: then:· iti has se-

WIIAT' RAILRoiD_ ow rERs ASK". ~ eu~ed the su:pport of practtcall~ · the·entil'e' lao01~ movement and! 'Vhat is the status of the railroad problem? : m?ny· in:ffuential~ farm organizations.. Al. btn: embodying the 'Ve· fiear a. great dear o:£ talk about returning· the ra1b:oads· to' ~I~b Plaru w.a.s·: presen.ted to· Congress· By,; y,nurse~ on. August 2;.

their owners, and· undoubtedly many people: imagine tbatr tlte ; !9'.19=. . t>Wners. of railroaxl' securities: are merely· asking. tlia:t their prop;.. : . ow~Ens: To· Im c.OMPEN'SAFED~-erties. shair be' retm!ned: in the ~ondition. in· which: the· G:Over-nment : I"t prov.fdes' that" the• Go:ve'l'mnent slialf. retafn · control of all' found them. ; tli~ raill·o.ads: and: that the owners: of tlic ro.a'dS. sha:LI,.; be com'

Of course, you aml I know that is not the" case.. If' the Gov- · pensa.ted! for e'rery. dollar honestly· invested!. · . el'nment were. to · throw the railroads back on· their· owners1 . '1lie" opponents of the· Plumb plan' are · fondf of ehargihg that: it liands, scores of systems would be in bankruptcy inside~ o:f 90: · iS proposed! to, ... eonfiscate·n the holdings· <Jf· t1ie· securley· holders. days, and this country '\!ould~ probably· be· convulsed by u most . Nothing. could· tie further from •the ·tJ·utb:; serious panlc. This despite the fact that the Government lind: . Section Rot'ynur·bm creates' a • railWa.Y's~ titUirti!orayprai~ement. expended hundreds of millions for impravements~ and: new: equip,;. \ and· extension. This· fiom·-d! is· ·empowered1 to ' ascertain· the ment. . . amount ot compensation to- be · paid> by.- tlie flnit'edi States· to the·

What is proposed: is thnt the· railroads. shall be returned. with· a 1 o\vners. off tlie seveml: transportation. properties: It is spectfi• guaranty by the· Government that the- stockholders.' shaH' receive- ! earlY p.rovid-ed-fo•~ · a' period, of. si:t months dividends, at the" highest rate h"llo\vn. . The· apl,Jraisemenf boarll sha1l' al«lertru.n· tl:ie vnlile' of~ alf the rights, in: the hiRtory· of A:merican1 railroading.. property .mvestmt>nts •. powers, authorities: and 1 pri'Vi'leges granted• in'

. . . . . . . _ , . C . .. C 1 and· acqmr.f'd· und~t: the chartP.rsc· of the several:' eorpBrate ' owners,. and .In. addit10n,.1t ~s ' proposed that the Interstatle . (..llnmer.c~ om- . thP· laws un_der wh1eh they• operat~ and: the grants made· to- individual

nusswn shall- be mstructed to· fix rates so· that those divid:ellfl.s; ~ owners ownmg- or operating such properties. may be continued and, in• order, to· still :furtheJ! fa.dlitate. mat~ ; That all values not included in the· grants madt>· rn- the"cli;arters of the

' · . corpor-ate owners or· the- laws- under which1 they operate; or m the grants ters it ls: suggested that the· Government open: tlie' Treasury ot made to individual ownei's, shall be regardPd as values retained' by tho the United States for the purpose of assisting in1 refinancing the> public in !he public highways o.t the United States and not subject to roads. · eompensatian:

Nowhere is adequate provision made to squeeze the billions of J In· tlie event that the appraisement bom~a~ aml the owners· of "water·" out of tbe securities with whieh the va-rious l:i.nes are bur- ; the property can agree on a price, the Government will at onccJ dened. and undoubtedly the r.ailroad .. i.nterests intend that the peo- !Compensate· the owners in cash. ple shall be ta~ed, th~o~gh incr~sed frei~ht and passenger ra~es; ! , CAm· on'_ sows. rN, PAYMENT. ·

so that exorbttan_t d1V1dends w1H' be patd· not only· on ~enume t If an111:gre.ement can, not be reached.the·· owners-lmve a right to· investments· but on- the "shadow dollars" which represent the • appea-r to· th.e courts,. and eventually to. the: Supreme· Court of loot of the Morgans,. the Goulds, and the other financial bucca- \ the Unite~:$ States. neefs who .do~inated. the railroad world in " · t~e ~oo~ old:days.'y : At every poin:t: in. the proceedings: the owners~ interests ai·e

'Ihat this lS true · IS proved· by Wall Streets mSJstenee· that ' safeguarded,. and~ therefore there can• be no questibfr that theY, ' the· railroads m~e· worth $20.000.000.000. Even Members of Con- 1 will receiv.e· ever;w dolla:rr to which they are entitled., · gre.ss have fallen, into. the error- of· accepting' those. figuresr j' Paymentl fol' the p1·operty is to. be made either through the:

The Interstatt: Co!nmerce Commission. bas· for years been: con:• issuance·of'bonds to the ownet'S, or. tbrougb the sale o.t bonds an{$ dueting~ an1 inqUl.rY' mto the· value of the roads,.. and tl1e figures , tlie payment of cash to-the owners. so~. fa:r- made· public by tJ:ie· commission indicate' that,. instea~ of ; Ha v.ing. secured control' of the> roads;, it iS·. proposed• that they. bemg worth $20,000,000,000; the roads could! be reprodrrce~ tor· ! shall be· operat:ed.r by the nati.onal· ttaihvays;; operating corpora ... · $12,000,000;ooo~· . tion.. The.· bill sa~s "the purpose of said' corporation· shaH he..

'.Iilie quotations on railroau securities po~ted· on the· New York. :fur puf>J:i.c service and not for private profit,~· a.nd. therefore the Stock Exchange every day confirm thgse figures. u · the Gov- corporation will issue no stoclts-o~ bonds ernment could step into, the· exchange to..dhy and buy every f.t is to 6e managed by a board. of d.ireetors of 15: members. bond· anul every· share· of ' stock at the pricP.s quoted, the total ' Five of· these directGrs are to represent the~ classified employees: · expenditure required would not exceed $12,000,000,000t ' ot the railway· Jines, five the official empJoyees, and five are to be

I remember in the oldi days we used to• get; red, in the· face de- : designated: by the President of the · tJnited . States. The" official nouncing Govemment subsidies for various• enterpriseS', l'>ut the• [ empfoyees:u. will lnclude au· hofding super.visory positions, while.· ancient ship-subsidy scheme.· and· kindred projects were of little : the r.an..k and. file o.f the. workers. wil.1. make up . the. ,,..classl1led· importanee compared with this proposition put forward· by. the employees;" ' railroad executives ih legislation now pending before Congress_ . The board' of directors thus made up wiU fie autli.o:vized to op

wooLLE~ PREDicTs INCRE'KSED ' nATE'S. I erate all the transpm.·tation lines· in · the country;,._ .. . . .. . . . , All questions concerning. wages' and· working· conditions are'

R1ght here, m . passmg;. may; f cah yoll!· ~tt'en~on to~ the state- . to be disposed; of by· ar central. board of wages and· working con--. m~nt from Interstate COmmerce eommlSSlODer R~ w. Woolley, , ditions '.composed equally of representatives. of. the classified; ~ic~: recently. appeared' in the J?Ubli~ press; inl w~ich that dis~ · employ'ees and the official employees. fn; ease· this boar<l can,~ tinguiShe<;(: autliodty· ':arns ·the Ame.nea~ people tliat t11e· t·etu::n· not reach a: mafority. decision: an appeal- ma~ be tak.en to· th.e . of the· railroads to pr1vate• ownerRh1p· Will mean. an · lncrease m board· of. dl.recta.rs. freight and' pn:ssenget~ rates· of 25 per cent and may be more?'

ll.\TES' FIXED'• BY IN1JEPmNDFJ11Tl BilD'Y', I need not teo · you t'liatl this means· an• additiQn of almost. a bil

lion dollars to the freight bills of the shippers of this· country~ and· Frefght~ and; passenger rates · are to be· fixed; by< the- fnterstnte•1 th-at a billion dollal'S fn freight charges·,. by the time if is finally Gommeri!e Commission;. which wm be Independent-of tlle national· passed. on to· the· ultima'te consmnet; wfio pays· all' bi1ls' in this· railways operating corporation, and whieh4_as- now,. wm be named ~ country, wm·expantl' to ttiTee· to live biftions: That would' inevt- brthe P~esident.of the 'United-States-an.d!wlllirrno-way be con- ·. tably' force a ti:rrt:ber· increase in tlie price· of t'he- necessaries of trel'led' by the I!aiJway employees~ . . Iife, and·. I thin~ you- will' agree with· me. tftat oUl'· country' i~ ; _The:oppo~ents of ~e· Flumb pia~ s~ywe- m·e ·protJosm~ to turn• sr·nrcely-m n: position to face' that li::ind of" a: ca1hmity; the rmlroads o:ver to· the- employees w1t1iont any· r-estrictions, and-

·* ; th~t· thrbug.W combination between· t!he·officialt employees and the URINGIPxn FEATUREs oF· THll :PLuMn rLA.~. ,1· classified· employees they could~ boost wages to- any. figure they·

A.nu now us· to, the' Rhu:ilb:- plan; itself. . saw· fit, and< compell the· rest of: tlie community to foot the trill~ . There' are approximately 2,'000,000= orgaiiiz-ed' rai.b·oad, workers There· fs, nothing to~ thiS. contention,. In) the first . pln.ce the ·

in. the l!Jnttecf: States:. They. belong te l.f n:atian.a:Il an(}; inter"" . Interstate'· 0omrnercC' (Jommission: lias· solE¥ paw€r to · itt rate~ ndtional organization : ; andl the commis..;;i'on would. continue' t-o: bet aa independent body.

From the very nature- of things they are <feepfy- iilterested; in; l Oil course; wages· cou-ld. not tie ·: r·ai:sed: um'E!asonilbly' without an tlic solutie: of ' th-e railroad p-rotifem. The-y· satr by w6ile states- increase: in; rates-, and there tli& carumissioru wouf.tll liave the veto men· o£. all parties, the raitr.oadl exeeuti-ves; ·and~ committees· rep" · po\\·er. Then.• Congress; I•epres~ntfng aU tlie•peeplc;. would be in a · :resentrrrg- r.aiJroad stocklloltl~; submitted~ planst f0-1r rall!·oadl position· to-: ihteiivene;· and ·public' sentimeFrtl wuuicf nndoubte<.Uy• legislation, and· finally. tliey. d'ecideru to· su'tunit at pian• ef tlliili" compeJ!f:t! ro·aet if any. sticfi• fiofdup: were~· atfumptedL owtl, · · We·thfnk! we haYe safe~-arded- this·pt•ovmibn.•by: pl·ovitllng that

It is called the Plumb plan because the author is Glenn· E ! u.U' surplus; earnings; resulting: irom ihereasedl efficfency of em Plumb, ·the: atr.orneyi' for· the• affillat.edi Faillmad latior organiza- plbyeeS;,. simlll tie· diVided: (>cpially betl\veen! the· Treasu·ry: of tlie trons, ·ami: one' of' the great autlim:ities~ olll evevy quest!ien· Pe1atin~ United\ S.t:ites· and: the- employees:. The· portiow set aside for tlie.' to tlilr railroad] issue; employees· shalt be· divided between, tOO· elnsstftedl employees andl

l919~. CON-GRESSIONAL .REOORD-JIOUSE .. 8327J the official .empioyees, lmt every -official employee .is to ~:eceive at lGni·ted States .shmild he ea.p.a:ble !Of sele.cting :a m.em'ber of a 'boar~ lea,·t twiee the rn.te of dividend that js given tto ·tlJ:e cla s.ified : of !directors -of a -great indl'h hT whlc:h "f:lu:nlshes them wtth their emplqse~. · bread and butter.

A B.\.R.PvlER A<!AINST COLL-uSION. WO'ULD .1\..ln}RICA.\J:Z£ 'IlAfUtO:l:DS.

there are a hundred !times ·as many .dassified em.p'loyees us : Some peepi.e -speak of th-e Plumb l[ J.an ~ ·:am attempt to socialize there are :ofiic1ai employees it can be seen at .once that !t 'Would the ra!i.lre.ads -of the cenntr.J. :Others ay it means n-atlonalizabe mathematicrully impossible 'to ifigure out any 'SCheme by which tion, but, to my mind, it contemplates .the Amerlca:nization .of 'the the official employees could go into a conspiracy 'With .rtht. dassi- i ·r.alJ.I'_oads. lt is :an .Ameriean [}laiD, formul{lted by ..an Amerlcan, fled employees 1:o ~ecure a .salary increase without "Saerificing : and s_poru:ored ·by .orgm:Liza.tio.ns xvll.ose Americanism can -n<>t b'e their own .financial interests. In 'othel' words, 'it is dem-onstrable · questioned. that the official employees can -g.et moue thro1:1gb tbeir :share of ~ 1f ~ve ·are not eai'e.f.Ul. howev-er, America ~vill. -not be tile 1irst the savings than they could .get .tr.om any .possible ·division wLt h to adopt this Americ..w .plan. "The eab:1es tell us that the British, the classified :employees. This method o-f sharing dividends ·sets -Qm:e.r.mnent has submi:tte:d tto :the Jr.a1lw.ay werkers and the httter up a .natural barrier _again-st .. collusion. · . 'bave ·acc-epted a proposition ;wbicb looks t.o ·the :ade.ption orf the

Of c.om:se it is conceivable that some better .seheme for ~egu- i -essential principl-es of the PJ.umb Pian. '!If this scheme :goe · Iating wage's may b.e suggested. l:f so. 1 want te assu.1•e ym:r tlrroug'11---.and 1t undoubtedly will-the 1:aTiro.ad .of the United we are prepared !1:o give it consideration, ·becrn:J.se the .rath·oad ; Ki.n_gckrnl ::will be ma:mrged by .:a boatd <>.f ,directors .of 12, 4 to bf! workers :of thls :country have no ·de...-dre to ,gauge their fellow · [selected iby ithe owners of the l~oad , 4 by the employees. and 4 citizens. by the Go~er.nment. Two ,of the :Gm"ernment's rep'I!esentativ.e:s.

Another critieism .d.irected at the Plumb .p11rn •is that we prG-- , however, are to be members of organ1zea 1a'bor. Thus organize() po ·e to t:n:ke :the management 1Qf the lines from those ·Who llaave labor will have 6 members., while .the pnblic :md the owners will

rd~monstra.ted their ;ability and -vest tt in workers 'Who laek mun~ l1ave an -equal number. a:geria'l .-experience. . . ~his proha.b1y gives t11e ol'garrized '\\·brkers greater power than

Let us •ex:amin:e "that .objec,tion for ,a. mament. they w.o:nld have under the Plumb 1)'lal1, bnt the railroaa men Df ':V.ho "runs" :the.:railr.oads of the lmited 'Strrtes to--day? of America, as T.epres.ented i>y the rallro.a.(l-o-rga.n.iz.ations, are not First, we have in Wall Street a number of gentlemen who by seeking'J.)ower,lmt industrial freedom.

devious methods remain In !Co-ntrol o0f the railreads., 'bu't they do '()..NL.Y .l'.LAN 1re:rcn BEDU.CE~ l1A.l:ES.

not ·un the ra~dBin :the sense Qf .operating them. 'They .have no Third. The P.Iumb pian is tile :erlly sugge rt:W.n now "Befo.re the teehuical Jm:~wledge -of tll~ .r.atlT.oad 'bus~ess. and :eoii.fi?e them· . American p.eo.ple ~hich _gua11Uttees u ileerease in tr.eigb.t .nnd

-~el~es ·excluSively ~o ~e 'WOrk ~f furancwg .±he roads. ln many · passe.D:ger rates. All ttbe other plans reall rfol' :increases. 'Tile mstn:nces !they :use :tlus l)o-w.-er m -finance m :such n way as rt.o Piumb ·plan dir~eets that rwhene':4er the net !earnings :of t he !l'aa<lls

. e:;vloit ~e ·mads o the -d~ttimen.t .of ~he stockholders ;m1d ofiJJ:e · -sha1l exceed 10 !Per .cent pf the gross .gpe:rat.ing r.eT.enues the .lnc:ommunLtY 'at Ja:r.ge. [~ it ueeessariY' for m.e to remm'd wou '(}f ter.-state (Jo!liDlel1ce Co-mmission shall automatically order :a ·r; the New Ha..v-en seuudal -and co.:l.lD.tless ·other deals of the ·same · per -cent d-ecrease in rates. nn a¥o.ry ·chamcter1l _ ~ . . .ln practical o_peraUon :this ·scheme ~oultl "1\0rk .as follows:

'The r-ea'i •work .of :o·peratlon 1.s ~e:arr1ed ,on by :the 6.ffiexal -em- . Let ·US .suppose that the ,gt.olils -epetating .r&.en.u.e _amounted to ploy- ce--s and th.e :classified 'empl-oy:ees--.:2,000,000 .of them. $.4;500,000,000 ..and that the _pr-ofits, {)r ne.t ~u.rnings, :t.ota'led

now WALL :sTRE~ woULD BE .EliiM.IXA1AlD. ·$500;000,00@, ..or mor:e .th:an 10 :P~ :cent. ·One3:talf '0-f 'this latter Kmv, ,liDde r :the Plumb plan t.b.er.e w.ould he no .need .of 1reta.in- sum, or $250,()00,000, woUld be divided between the ~ley.ees.

ing the seni.ces .f>f these Wall 'Street gentlemen, because no :One official and classified. The '<>the~· -$25.0,000,000 would be turnecl would be J)ermi.tted !to eithel· finance nr .£XPloit the r.ailr.oads .of iiito the Treasury of the United States and the Interstate Comthe U.nited States. ·The .financing -w..ould be taken care .uf when merce Commission wo11ld at once .o1·der a 5 per cent blanket the Government :to.olt ,aver 4-'he ·roads and compensated the .D\Ul- . decrease in fl.-eight and passenger rates. ers. Ex:plojta.tion \W.Ou1d become .a matter Df ancient Jli.st:ory. · EFFJi:CT O.ll' .nacru:.!sEn n.AT.ES.

Under tbe:n~w ·i:lispensa.t1ou .~esoleiluty:oflthe ,board.ofdiree~ · See ;what ~vo-~:11d·foUow:: Without .!llew -economies 10.r new busi-1 t01·g would -be to nctruilly :manage itlle railroads o.f tbe counti::v.. · n.e.ss 'the prq.fits the next ~r 'lYOUld be only ·$250,00010003 nd

That bei~g .true, whei.~e :t!Onld w.o.u :sec].I:re .more •efficient man~ · tne .employees and the Government would ~~e only .h-alf the 1 agers than fro:m tthe .official :empl~yees and itlle classified em· amount of the year .before. But .decreased ·rates mean .more ~ ployees-2 Adu to these 'fiv.e di.Bting:Uishe.d business .ana profes- business.; and .a1So, tbe r-edl:lctio.n in ilividenos would .rsti!rnnlate ! sional men, selected ·by the President of the 'United States, llD.d the employees to improve their operation by applying bett.er you would hav.e such a .board of directors as n.o railroad .has "".had lll.ethods. So the t-endency w,ould :be to :asau.re .-constantly J:Ie-

; in ·the 'history .o.f the J:ndus.tr_y. creasing rates, to add to fue vobnne .ei .business, and to gi'veitb..e What do we E-cwe to-necomplish ;by the enactment .of ~e 'Plumb most efficient service .bum..an ingenuity 1llltl -devotion -eonld ;pro-

: plan? vld.e. First, w:e :hope to :Place this _great induatry, whleh is so -essen- : Decreased r11tes meaJJ. ,cheaper commodities·; an<l so, thr-ough

1 tlal to the ·happiness and wefi.:beirtg .Df -our ·people. :in a _position the effectiveness ot the railroads, the purchasing power of mPuey , where it :wiD b.e :operated .tor :~:;'effice .and :not i:ol· profit. This .' would be inct·.eased not -only for the railroad :man rl:rot for ~ery imeans tlmt .intlnst.ry ,everyw..here will ;be :&imulatoo;; -:that one , wage earner and eYery purchaser. 1 section o.r •one 'city will not :be .{l:ev.elope.d ~at :the expense of nn- : The Plumb plan provides still :anether metho.a by whlcll rates i other ·sactro.n ·Ol" anoiber .city~ .but that .every :Part ·uf the country may ;be .reduced. will Tee:ei\-e the ·same tr.eatm:e.nt as :ev-e~:Y other p.at"t. '';Che Gfrv:emment .can :s.ecw~ the m~y to .P1ll~ase the tines

tWOll:KEns No .Lo:s-G.En 1\URE :em~s. :at 4! per e.ent. Under pxJv.ate .o~hip tae J!11blic Will be :ta...~

1 .S.econa. T ·o .million .A..me'l'iea-a w<n::h..-exs :will -cease .to be _me.r.e

eogs in :a maehine ranc11\l ill fbeeume .full }mrtners 1n their fDD.ll'tl'Y:S gr:e.a:test business lffiil ·pr.tse. Sudl .a rc:hange -:wnl .ba:ve .the -same effect -on !them that JP<Y!itical liberty -had on thei-r fathers more ; than a :ce.ntur,y ~ago. Hef.or:e '17!7:6 _go-v.er:oments were .run like railroa-ds were .mm i.n -this -00:1mtry -prior to 19.1.7. A few .:kings, princes, !and dti1."e.S ~1 .1imwced," II ex;vloited," ::rnd "tnrecred;'"' .nnd the u.reat .masS.<>-:f :the ;people 1Pa.i<1 ·the bill. ,

to ]Jay :not less than 6! per .cent ·and lin .all -pl:-obabllicy moo.· e. Under tb.~ Plumb p;Jan tbe "' .iW.ater " mU he tuk-en ;<>,ut .of .:mil

road :see:u:riti~s, and 4! :Per ~ent wW. :be paid .()'Jl -$12;()00.000.,~. 'Under :pii.vate iOW.n.ei:Ship .the "w.nter '" '\rill nat .be :ta'ken :011~ •.

and .at least -6! per .eent will ·be .paid ff>n .$20f()OO,OOO,OOQ. Under tbe Plumb plan :the inter.est :ch:u-:ge IOOuld 'be .$549,000,~ • .and runder private ~wn.ership ~1,.'300~000,;600.

Tile diff&enee would ~emain in tbe _po.ckets .()f th~ American people ii.n the fo~m .<;>f .l'educ.ed fl'.eight aud passenger ra tes. A.ud then Ameriea laid ,dawn the :Pro.pnsitio-n that :go\ernments : i dei'h:ed thei:!r just J){).wers fcmn the :c~nsen.t of !the iovenne.d 11nd R~lrltO:A:Qs au.:r D..F .:Eo.MT'il'C'S .

. ever:r citizen -o-ver .21 'Who :\vas n£tl; in :a ~-ali or :an .insane asylum · FO:urlll. The P.Wmb plan ;would it..'l.k~ the r.ailr&ads out cl poii-1 beeam~ :n 1P3-l'-.tn~r lin the -Gov-ennment. tics :forev.er and !thus il~mo>-e .one of the most per:.utcimts iR-

O.f tC~urse .. :a ;g'~"eat ma;:ny .:good ;p.E~O])le w~ged their he.a4s and fiuences in ;ptiblie :Ufe.

I said the tthi..ng lf!.Onld :not .be :do:.ae~ that. tll:e.se tcoagb, :u.nedn:cated Fif.t1l. ·The .Plumb :plnn i\vo:nlfl ·deY-clop Amer:lcan w.ater,w:ays men would ,deat;r~ _g-oYer.nmen.t .:and plun:ge 'SO.ciety .i:nt() the -yor- t~ the Europ~an stanCI:ar.ds. "The ·t-atlr.oads ha:ne :strangled :water

1 tex ~ :anar.ohy~ '~!lese \fears 3.V.fl"e =neN,e.r :reali-zed .. and now :all transpo.rtaticm. in thi's c.o-untry aiul -wm £Dntinne :t:0 :00 so fUll(}e· I.Overtlle1Wt>rl(lm:eB!tilrgs :<are :acce.pting ·tbe'"Ameriean ... idea. pJ.'iv-ate c0wnen;htp. In .Eu:rupe file !-Canals a-nd I'.i.Vel'S ,can·y -the

":C.he Plumb ;plan llT.O.POSe.S :to !1'0 ·for -the rroJxpad 'bUSineSS lWilat . greater _part tOf !tire b\lTh:y !fr.eight, :an{;l1Jle T.ailroads remain fcee-rthe Deel:nn..tiDn 10f .ln.'dependenee did ft>.r the tbusmess of g<rr.&n- : :to :Perft>rm tlle.tr ~e~a te fn:neti<Uls. -~ment. :.Sunely tbe ·l'Wl·es IW.llo :are pelalli:ttecLro ·.pru:ti;e~prute ·.Jn · Si:Kth.. 'T'.be !Plumb ;Plan \Will'elld·.S.Pooula1:iecn, .stockjQbbtng, and· !the ·election ·of .public ·o:fficiais -from constatile ito . .Presi:dent of the· W11ll Street ,gambling so-far :fts rniilr.oa.tt !See:nrities care ooneemed.

8328 GONGRESSIQNA.L RECORD-HOUSE. .Nov E}ffiER 11-, •. The jmportance_ of this can . not be appreciated unless one tS familiar with what congressional investigations have revealed concerning the manipulation of railroad securities. · · ·

You will recall the Pujo report m·ade to Congress in 1913. It showed that while 700,000 people owned . railroad stocks and bonds, ·four great banks in New York controlled all the important lines of transportation in this COUJ;ltry. . They ruled like feudal barons, not because they actually owned the stock of the roads but because . they were in a position to manipulate ·the cards according to Wall Street's rules.

In that way they secured power such as no citizeJ;t, or combina; tion of. citizens, should possess in a republic.

· ' Seventh. The Plumb plan would solve our industrial problem,

I so far as one great basic industry is concerned. Men do not .strike against themselves, although they have the right to do so.

: Assured of wages which would enable them to live according to , American standards, and guaranteed a share in the savings pro' duced by their skill and industry, the railroad workers would . have a compelling interest in the uninterrupted operation of the ! great lines of transportation. ·

AS THlll WORKERS VIEW IT.

In conclusion. my dear Judge, may I say that one of America's greatest writers caught the spirit of this movement for industrial democracy when he quoted a rallroad worker as making the fol· lowing reply to the question, " Why the Plumb plan? " :

It means that I will work for myself; I will work for my neighbors; for the public. It means that I will no longer work tor W:all !:!treet; for the banking syndicate that rules the railroads for private profit; for speculation~ for robbery; it means that I am to be a tree man, as was my father, who carved out his own fortune in free America.

This is what the Plumb plan means. It is a declaration of indepPndence for 2,000,000 workingmen. It means that we will use our brains as well as our hands; that we will put 100 per cent ol ourselves into our jobs. We will do this not because we will share in tht> savings due to our own etllclency but because we are working at a common undertakln~ that we want to n1ake a success.

This is the Plumb plan. It means freedom-freedom for you: tree-11om to the manufacturer from discrlminatory ran ratPs; freedom to the farmer to bring his produce direct to the consumer. It means transportation at cost And lt means to me that I become a servant of the American people 1n the best sense of the term. Under the Plumb plan I w111 work for my country and for myself as well.

This 1s· true America.nlsm. .Assuring you of my hlgh regard, I remain,

Sincerely, (Signed) EDWARD KEATING,

Mana,ger Plumb Plar£ League. Mr. SIMS. Mr. Chairman, how much time have I remaining? The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman has lett seven minutes. Mr. SIMS. How much time has been consumed by the gen·

tleman ·from Wisconsin? The CHAIRMAN. Two hours and 32 minutes. Mr. SIMS. Mine lacks 27 minutes of an hour anu a half? The CHAIRMAN. Yes. Mr. SIMS. Does the gentleman from Wisconsin desire that

I shall yield the other hour to this side? Mr. ESCH. If the gentleman likes; yes. Mr. SIMS. Mr. Chairman, I yield an hour, or so much of it

as may be desired, to the gentleman from Kentucky [Mr. B.ARKI.EY].

Tbe -CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Kentucky is recognized for one hour.

Mr. BARKLEY. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I appreciate, as I am sure you do, the impossibility and the difficulty connected with the effort of any man to discuss this measure in detail in the space of one hour, and if there were no such difficulty confronting me I should ue dissuaded from attempting to do it by the very excellent and admirable address llelivered this morning by the gentleman from Wisconsin [Mr. EscH], the chairman of the committee, in which he gave an outline of the provisions of this bill and the reasons which have actuated the committee in its formation.

I desire to say that the Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce has had this legislation under consideration since the 15th day of July. On that day the committee started the bearings which resulted in the framing of this bill. Those hearings were continued all through the latter part of July, all through August, and all through the month of September, comprising nearly two and one-half months, during which time nearly everybody in the ·United States representing the railroads, representing the railroad employees, and various com.merdal, agricultural, and other organizations throughout the country were permitted to appear before the committee and offer any solution that they b.ad ·of _the railroad problem.

At the outset it was recognized by the committee, as it has been recognized by everybody, that the railroa<ls which were taken over by the President during the war could not be turned back to their priyatc om1ers without remedial legislation. 1

th~k everybody who ha.s had anything to clo with railroatl legislation or railroad operation, or who is at all familiar with the condition of the railroads and the country, will admit that it would be disastrous to the country, because disastrous to the rl}.ilroads, to return the railroads to their owners under the same laws and conditions wh1cli prevailed prior to their being taken over by the Government. Therefore the committee started out in the beginning with the recognition of the fact that it woulcl not be possible under present conditions to return the railroad to their owners without making not only provision for temporary r-elief to. be granted to them, and temporary arrangements that might be entered into between them and . the Government, but that, if the committee should· present a bill that would give a broad anu comprehensive treatment to the transportation problem, it was necessary to revamp the entire laws on the . ub·ject which had heretofore been in operation·.

Th~ gentleman from Wisconsfu [Mr. EscH] has outlined the various plans which were presented to the committee, and I shall not undertake to cover that ground which he has already gone over so well. One of the first problems that the committe-e had to determine was the relationship that should exist between the railroads and the Government after their return to their owners, an<.l how far the comruitt~ and Congress might be justified in extending the power of the Federal Goveriiment over the regulation of railroads or over their control and operation after their return.

The committee has framed this legislation upon the theo1·y, without regard to the possibilities that lie out in the distant future, but recognizing the situation only as it presents itself now-the committee has framed this bill upon the theory that the roads would be returned at the end of this year, as announced by the President, and that the people desired them to be returned under conditions somewhat different from those which existed priOJ: to the time when they were taken over by the Go\""ernment. So far as I am individually concerned, at the outset I was somewhat impressed with the view presented by the· former Director General of Railroads, Mr. McAdoo, and by his successor, Mr. Hines, during the last Congress, when they submitteli a proposition that Federal control should be continue<l for a while in order that we might gain better information with reference to the final dlsposition·of the railroad question. But it ha~ been apparent to me, as I think it has been to every Memb01· of this House, that Congress has not been disposed to adopt that suggestion. There have been certain inconveniences of operation and management, certain little details which had crept into the matter of Federal control and operation. which had not rested very lightly upon the sensibilities of a great many people, and there was a sort of impatience on the part of the public to unload the roads back _oilto their owners in order that the public and the Government might get rid of the burden as soon as possible. · · ·

So, recognizing what appears to l>e the overwhelming entiment of the country at present, the committee, without regard to politics, applied themselves assiduously to the solution of the problems presented. I desire to say that. there has not been d. single political division in the committee or in · the subcommittee on any proposal that has been considered in connection witll this legfslation. The committee from the very beginning has handled this legislation in a pm·ely nonpartisan spirit.· Anybody obserYing the conduct of the committee would have been unahle to discern whether the members were Democrats or Republicans or which party was in the majority, so far as the action of the committee has been concerned, and I trust that in the consideration of this bill until it shall have been finally enacted the Mem- · bers of the House, as I am sure they will, will consider this measure in the same nonpartisan spirit which has actuated tbe committee bringing it here for · your consideration. .[Applause.] It is not a partisan question. There can not by the most

imaginative flight be brought into the consideration of · thi ~ measure anything that may l>e either to the advantage or disadvantage of one political party or another, and I am sure that thiN House will consider the measure purely from the standpOint of the welfare of the country, because that is the spirit in which we are seeking to deal \vith the transportation problein.

Now, I am sure that in the minus of many Members there is a question or query with reference to the reason why this bill proposes certain things with respect to the roacls. When we uecided to turn them back, and after the President in May issued t11e very cryptic statement that he intended to turn them back on the 1st of January, the House first· began to realize the necessity of preparing this legislation for enactment before that time, because unless this or some other measure shall become a law as permanent legislation before the President returns the roads at the end of this calendar year, it will be necessary for the Congress to pass some sort of temporary l<.'gislation, or if

1919. CONGRESSIO-NAL _RECORD-HOUSE* 8329 that is not done the President 'Viii have to postpon-e the returning of the road ·, because it is inconceivable to me that the President will feel justified in returning the railroads to tbeil• owners und r present conditions without some· kind of legislation providing for the transition period that will exist between ;their return to their owners and the readjustment of railroud .conditions which must take place in the near future. One of :t~e great l)roblems presented to the committee and to the rallt·oads, and which presents itself to this · House, is the q.ues-tion ·Qf railroa.d (!redit, and that has been the burden of the song of the rai).roads before the committees from the very beginning .of the ,consideration of this legislation. Ai! the gentleman from Wisc<msin [Mr. EscH] very forcibly <>utllned this morning, the railroads, 'even befo-re the Government took them over,. were complaining of the fact that they had lost their credit, and at the _time the Government took the roads over and began to operate them in l917 it was generally adniitted by the railroad offlcials- themselves that it was a good thing for the roads that the Government did take them over, because they were unable to finance themselves; they- were unable tC? obtain that credit which is necessary in order to pay their fixed charges and make neces ary expenditures for en~argements and betterments ~d additions.

1 Of course, if .that ci>ndi tion ensteq prior to the operation of the !roads . by the Government to any degree it would obtain va:y ~much more extensively with reference to the credit of the road's after they had been turned back from Government operation,

tunless there is some legislation th~t -~ill enable either the Government or the roads themselves to bridge over _ this chasm tb.at

'is supposed to extend between the, return of the rQads- to their \owners and the proper readjuStment .of the rates and n·ans-lportation conditions. . .

So, in order that we may take care of that situati-on, and reel ognizing the fact that during Govern.ment operation the expendi) tures of the roads have lncreased to a larger extent than tb.eir ;-revenues have increased, the question has arisen in the minds ; of the committee, and especially iq the minds of those wtw were :charged with attempting ~o adj~st the financial arrQ.D.gements between th~ Government and the roads, as- to \VP.at is the moral ·obligati-on or the legal obligation of the Governm~t. iii view of the faet that these expenditures haV'e been brought about .not necessarily by reason of Government operation but

,d-qring the continuation of Government operation. ·· It is a well-known fact that the G.overnment of the United

1 States lost during the two years of Government _operation and control, beginning January 1, 1918, and ending December 31,

11~19, something like $625,000,000. Ove1· ·and above receipts wliich have come in during the two~year period, in addition· to the standard return amounting to $936,000,000 .a year, the loss of the ,Federal Government will be a J.!.ttle over -~600,000,000. We must , wipe that amount off the books as a war cost. There is no way 'l in which the Government can ever recover, because under the Federal-control act the Governnient ·obflgru;ed itself, and it has

!been carried out for the m~st part under contracts with the roads,. ~that they should receive the standard return fixed. in the law. jSome of the roads have not entered into that contract with the

[Government, and tho e roads may have their remedy in the Court o{ Claims, but under the Federal-control aet that was pro. vided for. So we may dismiss that from consideration.

During Fed-eral control the President increased the freight rates about 25 per cent and the passenger rates about 50 p-e1· cent. We recognize th-e faet that during the two years of the war the cost of th-e material whictl went into construction and l'econstruction and extension and betterments of roads increased all the way from 50 per cent to more than 100 per cent. I think it may be conservatively statecl that the increase in the cost of material during the two-year period while the Government has rhad control of the roads has been somewhere between 60 and 75 lper cent. ·

In addition to that, the Director General has increased the 1rates of pay of railway employees. It is idle to say that those iWages would not h-ave been increased if the Government had tllever taken over the roads. Everybody 1·ecognizes the fact that twhether the Government took over the roads or did not take

lthem over, the laboring men who worked for these transportation companies were demanding and were entitled to a large .increase in their wages. .

Mr. HUDSPETH. Will the gentleman yield for a question .there? ·.

Mr. BARKLEY. Yes. . , , Mr. HUDSPETH. Can the gentleman give us the amount of the increase in round numbers in dollars and cents?

Mr. BARKLEY. I. may be mistaken about th-e- figures, but my understanding is that, exclusive of the recent increase granted by the Director Generalt which was to date back to May of this year, for certain shop employees and others, which am(}ttnted

to about $45,000,000, the total increa e in wages during the 'twoyear period has amounted to something in the neighborhood of $1,000,000,()()() a year, which woUld, of course, in the two-year perioo amount to· about $2,000,000,000 increase of wages· over and abo-ve the wages ·they were drawing and would have drawn but for these increases. Of course, you must take into consideration the fact that by reason of the operation of the eight-hour law, which went into effect just before the Government took over these roads, and ·by reason of the fact that employees who theretofore had done more than eight hours' work could not do as mu.ch work in the eight hours as they had formerly done in. longer hours, there was necessitated an increase in the number of employoos over and above those who were necessary under the old law. Taking into consideration the increasesthat nave been made, I think I am conservatively correct in . saying that there baS. been an increase of about 140,000 persons in. the number of employees of railroads during tlie two ye..'l.Is.

Mr. GOODWIN of Arkansas. Can the gentleman state the percentage of increase in this period over the wage · recei vecl prior to the Federal-control a.ct?

Mr. BARKLEY. I can not give it to you definitely, becau e the increases :for different classes of employees are different, and have been worked out upon such a scale of detail that it is very difficult to get the percentage for each class of empl.oyees, but my recollection is that the total increases which have been made during the two year aggregate a little more than 40 per cent.

Now, we are confronted with this situation: Nobody wl;w i · in his right mind believes that these employees will consent or that they ought to be compelled to consent to a reduction of the wages granted: them by the Federal Government. Certainlr they can not tmdergo such a reduction until there has been a proportionate reduction in the cost of living. I think it may be fa.irty said that with the large increases that have ·be(ID made by the Federal Government in the e~enditure for employees alone, notwithstanding the increas~ the increase has not kept pace with -the cost of living. While the increase of wages on , th-e average may in some individual case be· too large and it may be in an individual class of employees, the increases have not been laTger than the increase of the cost of living. It is generally admitted that during the l~st two or three years the increase of cost of living to the a'erage family of American. people has been about 82 per cent, whereas the increase of salary and wages of railroad employees has been between 40 and 50 per cent. So I think it is fair to assume that there coulcl be no substantial reduction in wages of the railroad labor within th-e next few months or few ye..'\rs.

Mr. SEARS. Will the gentleman yield? Mr. BARKLEY. I will. Mr. SEARS. Is it not a fact that in a certain cia s of railroad

employees, like the depot agent and the telegraph operator, their wages have nat been increased, except a few montbs ngo, when there was- a small increase gi-ven? · ·

Mr. BARKLEY. That is true; they did not have a wage increase until a few months ago, and I think it is true that their increase is not in proportion to the increase granted some other empl.oyees .

Mr. CARSS. Will the gentleman yield? Mr. BARKLEY. Yes. Mr. CARSS. Have the wages of the railroad employees been

increased in proportion to wages in private industry? Mr. BARKLEY. I do not know whether I can answer that

question· or not, because I do not have witll me the figures with reference to all classes. But I should say, taking the situation as a whole--and I am only able to state in a general way from general information, because the committee has been oo thoroughly engrossed in the consideration of railroad legislation since the middle of July that we have not had an opportunity to· investigate scales that are being paid in other .private industries,. but in a general way I think the gentleman is correct-that the increaSes on the average of railroad employees have not kept pace with or at least have not exceeded the increases granted in very many private enterprises.

Mr. HASTINGS. Will the gentleman yield? Mr. BARKLEY. Yes; for a question . Mr. HASTINGS. As to the wages of the different classes of

railroad employees, I wonder if the gentleman could give us the average wage now paid?

Mr. BARKLEY. No; it would be \ery difficult to get the average amount paid per month or ~rear· of nil railroad employees, and if you get the average it would be an unfair basis to judge a proper and r-easonable wage received. The gentleman will understand that there· is a wider field of difference in the various classes of railroad employee. than exi~?ts in any other line ~'f industry in the United StatE's. ·

8.330 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. :NOVE~IBER 11,

~lr. SEAUS. Will the gent1ema·n yielU? Turning back the roads with an increase of expenditures out ::'llr. llARKLl!)Y. I , will. of proportion to the-increase of revenues, whether brought about ~Ir. SEARS. I do not know about the average wage, but the by reason of Government conh·ol or not, confronted the com-

wage of an operator under a $6,000 bond in a town of 5,000 or mittee with this situation: Waiving the question of any legal 6,000 inhabitants up to three months ago was $98 a month. This obligation that we might be under to the roads by reason of man hwJ to receive all train order~. and yet he only received $9~ this difference in the cost of operatio and income, which has a month. been brought about by Government order, is there not n moral

l\Ir. OL~"EY. Will the gentleman yield? obligation resting upon the Government to turn them back either Mr. BARKLEY. I will yield for a question. · under conditions that will enable them to make the same pro-Mr. OLNEY. Is it not a fact that the increases in freight and portionate income to outgo which obtained before the Govern-

pas enger rates have not been commensurate with the increase ment took the roads over; or, in the absence of that, is it not in wages and cost of material, and would not that be a question our duty to provide some means of bridging the ·roads O\er this to be considered in the future by the Interstate Commerce chasm until the regular processes of the law have an opporCommission? tunity to work and bring about a readjustment of rates that

J\lr. BARKI .. EY. 'l'hat is what I was leading up to when I be- will meet the situation which confronts the roads when they are gun the discussion of the increase of wages for the laboring men turned over? on the roads. The increase of wages, as I have stated, has been Mr. FESS. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yiE-ld? between 40 and 50 per cent-! think nearer 40 than 50. But the Mr. BARKLEY. Yes. increase in freight rates has been only 25 per cent and the in- Mr. FESS. Is there not another element to be con ideretl crease in passenger rates approximately 50 per cent. You will here? What about the condition of the roads in respect to de-understand, however, that very few roads ma~e any great profit terioration as to rolling stock and roadbeds? · · out of the passanger traffic; the great income comes from ship- Mr. BARKLEY. The Government in the Federal-control act ment of freight and not by reason of the passenger traffic. So 1 obligates itself to turn· the roads back to their owners in a . think on the whole it may be said that the actual increase in the gpod condition as wlien the Government took them over. revenue of the roads for the two-year period is -limited to 25 Mr. FESS. Has the gentleman taken into consideration wba t per cent over their former rates. amount that would require?

Mr. HUDSPETH. Will the gentleman yielu? · .M.r. BARKLEY. I would say to the gent)eman I think it i · Mr. BARKLEY. For a brief question. fair to say that the Government will turn the roads back in Mr. HUDSPETH. I understand the gentleman to say that practically as good physical condition as they were when they

there bas been an increase in the railroad employees of 250,000. were taken over. I ·am speaking now of the financial end of it. Mr. BARKLEY. One hundred and forty thousand. I think the testimony of the Interstate Commerce Cop1mission 1\'lr. HUDSPETH. That was due largely to the transportation and of tlle railway operators themselves is that, with few ex-

of troops during the war. . ceptions-of course, you can not have exact perfect co.nrlitions l\lr. BARKLEY. Yes; partly to that; but under the eight-hour at any given tirrie-taldng the roads as a whole, tliey will be

law they bad to ba\e more employees. turned 'back to their owners in practically ,- as good condition, Mr. HUDSPETH. How many additional employees could be physically, as t11ey were when taken over, but there may be a

cut off in these times? -very decided difference so far as their financial situation is con-Mr. BARKLEY. I think but very few of them. The testi- ··cerned, and that is what I am addressing myself to no'v~

mony of the railroad brotherhoods, and of the executives of. There are three ways by which we undertake in this bill for the railroads tllemselves, was that there might be a little' ilie ·Government to carry out its moral obligation, because our economy by laying off a man here and tllere, but taking the legal ooligation ends when we turn the roads back in as gootl whole 140,000 there would be very little opportunity to decrease physical condition as they were when they were taken over.; but the number of employees so ·as to · have any appreciable effect in order that the Government may not be charged with having on the expenditures of the roads. . neglected even its moral obligations to these · roads we pro>ide

Now, all this bas transpired under GoT"ernment controL We' · th1:ee ways by which· this period may be cared for while regular can not speculate about what would have happened if the · p-rocesses of the ·law ·are being put into operation to ·readjust Government had not taken over the roads. As I said a moment rates · and ·~weuditures according to the needs of the roaus. ago, I think it fair to assume that the wages of labor would In the first place; we provide that the standard return which have increased, even if the roads bad not been taken over. we have been paying th~ roads during the last two years ball

.I trunk it is also fair to assume that _ tile rates charged for be continued to tbeni fo'r ·a peried of ·six months after the Govhauling freight and pa sengers would have increased if the ernment control ceases, -and ' that a test period of three year. roads had not been taken over. Whether there would have ending June 30, 1917,· an'd the corresponding six months of each been a nearer approximation to the proportion of increases of one of those years· is' to be bi.ken as an average; and that averag-e expenditures to revenues if the roads had not been taken over is to be applied to the· first six months after the roads arc no one can answe1·, because that is a matter purely in the turned back to their owners. Of course that is pui·ely an arbirealm of speculation. Here \Ve have a situation where, through trary figure that the com-!IDttee_ bas adopted; a;nd it can· not be the operation of the Government and by direction of the Presi- otherwise than an arbitrary figure. Some standard must be setclent and the Director General, the expenditures of the roads up. If the Government is to ,guarantee these roads any· particub:we increased more than the revenues have incFeased, notwith- lar returns during the·. transition period,. as we call it, there must standing the· fact that everyone bas recognizro and the com- nece8sarily be an arbitrary figure, and we have taken the· figure mitte·e has recognized and the Raih·oad Administration bas which was put in the Federal-control aCt covering the comrecognizetl that if the present proport1Qn of expenditures and pensation of the roads by the Government during the period of income should. continue the Government itself will he compelled Federal control. · I ~think that is a fair figure; althot1gh' it is to increase the rates. Nearly everyone in the United States arbitrary, if there is to be any guaranty 'of the· return. · If the expected two or three months ago that there would be -an in- Interstate Commerce ·commission was equipped to ~ut into ct·ease in the rates, in order that the deficit that was piling up effect on the first day that the Government control ceases a scale against t11e Government every month, by reason of the operation of rates that would be sufficient to ·pay expenses of the roads of the roads, mig;llt be either decreased or entirely obliterated; and enable them to · meet their fixed charges and other · obligabu·t the Director General announced that in view of the prox- tions that they have incurred or will incur; there would be no imity of the time when the President would return the roads necessity for this six months, guaranty. This guaranty was to p1ivate control he did not feel justified in increasing the put into the bill only because the testimony of the Interstate rates, and he made that announcement almost simultaneously Commet'ce Commission its~lf showed that it would t~ke at lea~t with the announcement of an increase in the wages of shop and six months for them to adJUSt the rates and schedules and' clas Iother employees, which amounts to apout $45,000,000 a year fic.ations applicable to these rates, in orde!_' tb~t the items of .and which would date back to May of t~is year . . So that we expense and income mig.ht more nearly approximate each other. will turn the roads back to their owners with an increased ex- Then we provirled also that the present rntPs fL'red by the penRe account and with a decreased proportional revenue. Director ~eneral, wbJch.- will be in _effect when the ~ederal 'C?nThere was a little surplus in the Government operation during trol terminates, shaH become the ,_legal rates until otherwise the month of July _ of about $2,000,000. There was another small changed by operation of law, wl;\icb means;.of course, until the surplus during ilie month of August, but that surplus was cal- various State · commissions and _t;lle Interstate Commerce Comculated without taking into consideration the $45,000,000 in- mission can . go through th.e i necessary routine of having the crease in wages, and when the $45,000,000 is· put back to May sched-g.Ies fi]ed .. with -t:Jiem-:a,nd 'make iheir investigations to de_-1 of this year, and divided into 12 parts, it more than wipes termine whether or not: t}le increases applied for ·by t~e roads out the little surplus of $2,000,000 that was in the Treasury . ought·_t_o b_e :granted: · NQ~, we make it a condition that before during the month -of July as a result of the operation of the any road under Federal control -shall be permitted to -enjoy the roads. benefits of this six months' gunranty it must give mridence

1U19. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. '-· {3331 of .its neetl .of it by filing a . s<!hedule of the increases of rates. tlPOl! .fu:~t blush, on reading that sentence, casual observation might lea<l one to believe it was mandatory that the road shou111 immediately file a schedule of increases of rates. But that is not the object of it and that will not be the eft'Pct. That merely is evidence of the fact that the railroad needs the guaranty. It amounts to a guaranty for those who· do need these increases Of rates; but in order to show that a road needs this increase of rates and this guaranty it must, within 60 days after the turn· ing back to private owners, file with the Interstate Commerce Commission a schedule of increases of rates. and if it does not uo that ·it is not permitteu to increase the rates, and if it does not need it it does not need the guaranty, and therefore will not re<:ejve it. Now, these are two ways in which we have attempted to bridge over the transition period of six months that will be necessary, according to the commission itself and according to all the State commissions, in order that the rates may be read· justed throughout the United States . . We do one oth~r thing. \Ye provide that the railroads under certain conditions shall be pei·mitted to borrow money frmo the Federal Government at any time within two years to run for a period of not exceeding five years, and in order that they may borrow this money · they

- must make application to the ·Interstate Commerce Commission. They must state the amount of the loan, they must state the purposes for which it is intended to be expended, the character of the secu-rity that wil! be offered to secure the G9vernment against loss, and then the commission, after considering all these things, makes its report and recommendation to the Sec· retary of the Treasury, who is finally to determine the question as to whether the amount shall be advanced and the kind of security, the commission only making its recommendation to the Secretary of the Treasury after a full investigation of the ap· plication made by the roads. So that the committee, after consideration. not in order that the railroads may be guaranteed against loss that other men in their industries might sustain, but in order that the Government might be sure to liave performed to the last iota all of its obligation to the roads, both legal an<l moral, we simply .provi<le that they may be financed and that nece·ssary credit may be accorded to them <luring the six months necessary for the commission itself to adjust rates so it will bring about the necessary revenue. I think it is fair to say-we need not keep back anything-that tl:ie Interstate Commerce Commission recognizes the fact that on the whole there must be an increase of the rates in the United States. Either thnt or there must be a decrease in wages or a decrease in the other e:\.'Penditures, cost of materials, and other things going into the operation of . the roads. Now, nobo<)y believes that wages ought to be decreased; nobody belieyes that the cost of material will be decreased except as a result of the natural processes of readjustment afte,r the war, so" we did not feel justified in hoping that there would be any material reduction in the cost of operating these roads in the next few months or in the next few years, and, recognizing that situation, we have undertaken to give to the Interstate Commerce Commission full authority, and at the same time, with the necessary safeguards to the interests of the people and the shippers and the consumers of the United States, we have clothed the comrnissiQll with full authority to take into account the en~re railroad transportation situation as to the rates after the roaus are turned back to their owners-have clothed them with full power and authority to meet and <leal with the necessities which may exist. Now, there is the guaranty for "Six months, there is the continuation. of the present rate for six months, ·and there is the power to borrow money from the Government. · ·

1\lr. TILLMAN. Will the gentleman yield? 1\Ir. BARKLEY. I will. Mr. TILLMAN. Does the gentleman be1ieve there will be a

more economical operation of the roads under private management than there has been under Government operation?

Mr. BARKLEY. Well, I <lo not know that my belief will be •:worth anything, but I presume that now and then some employee who felt that b~ was· work.ing for tl1e Government and not for private employers may have been a little more slack by reason of Gcvernment orJeration than he would have been under private operation. That might liave been true in isolated cases, but taking the employees as a whole, I doubt very seriously if there will be ariy appreciable increase in the· economic operations so far as labor is .concerned. I believe · ~he employees of the roads on the whole hav-e been just as willing and zealous during Government operatwn· as they were before the Government took over the roads. In soin~: isolated cases, I say, there may have been men who laid down on the job. But taking the two and a balf millions as a whole, I a.m unable to say that they have deliberately neglected their ,duty while -under Government control to cause delay or make some· t.rouble to the Government because

it was operating the roads during the war. Of -course, the gentleman will recognize the fact that <.luring the war hundreds of thousands of railroad employees were taken out of the service. The railroad service .was to some extent demoralized, ·because the Army took many of their employees and they were compelled ,to take on new employees to take their places, and in tha.t way there was more or less loss of energy and time. - ,

Mr. TILLMAN. What prompted me to ask the question wa that it often bas been asserted that private -individuals could conduct the Post Office Department, for instance, at very much less expense than the Government conducts it. I wanted ~o get the gentleman's opinion of whether or not be believed that pr~vate individuals could conduct the railroad systems better than the Government could. . .

Mr. BARKLEY. They might do this; they might drive their employees harder and get more work out of them, or some of them, in a day, bufon the whole I doubt very seriously whether there can be any economies practiced in the labor . ituation when the roads are turned back to their owners.

Mr. ALMON. Will the gentleman yield? Mr. BARKLEY. I will. l\Ir. ALMON. Did not the committee in considering the i·ight

or a provision for a loan take into consideration that it would be in the interest of the public to prevent failure and receivership?

Mr. BARKLEY. Of course, that was th~ moving cause. Mr. ALMON. You refer to the fact that it was a moral obli-

gation in addHion to the one suggested? _ . _ Mr. BARKLEY. I suggested at the outset that it would have

. been disastrous to turn the ' roads back to the owners without necessary remedial legislation. I think it is not going too far to say that if we on the 31st of December were to turn the roads back to their owners without remedial legislation, it would result in the most disastrous financial panic that this country bas ever seen.

Mr. EV !ll""'lS of Montana. The bill now provides that a six months' guaranty shall be given or furnished to such roads as make application. Will it not be the effect that those roads that are not earning as much as the normal returns would make the application and those that are earning more would not make the application for this guaranty?

Mr. BARKLEY. That might be the result. If a road is earn-· ing more money than it had been earning or is earning sufficient money to pay all of its expenses and provide a fair return, as they thought, on the value of their property, there would be no reason for making the application. And there would be no reason in that case for an increase of rate. ·

Mr. EVANS of Montana. Then what would you say as to the justness of the Government taking from those roads that earned in excess of the standard returns to compensate itself to p:1y railroads that earned less? _

Mr. BARKLEY. Our bill does not provide that. . Mr. EVANS of Montana. I know it does not; but -what is

your opillion on that? . 1\lr. BARKLEY. I do not think the Government has any legal

right to take money out of the treasury of a prosperous road and give it to one that is not prosperous, and I doubt seriously if, under the Constitution, we have the power to do that. We might take it for taxes and put it into the Federal Treasury under the power of taxation, and expend it in any {Yay the Government might see fit as a part of the general revenues of the Government, but I very seriously doubt the power of COiigres~ to penalize a prosperous road by taking all qver a certain per cent and giving it to a road that does not make anything, aside from the moral question that enters into the equation.

Mr. BA...~KHEAD. Is it the gentleman's intention to discuss the short-line fe..c:tture of the bill in his remarks?

Mr. BARKLEY. If I get the time. . Mr. BA.l-.'KHEAD. Unfortunately I did not hear the gentle

man fTom Wisconsin [1\Ir. EscH] or the gentleman frOm Tennessee [Mr. SrMs] on that feature.

1\lr. BARKLEY. 1\Iy understanding is that when the Government took over the roads they took over a lot more than they intended to. They sent a blank order that was served on all the roads from a list furnished by the Interstate Commerce Commission. Tl1e result \vas that they took over about seventeen hundred little roads that they did not need, and they turned them back just priOr to the 1st of July. Now, those were largely made up of short-line roads.· They have insistently contended, and they have with a good deal of force contended, although they were taken over and were turned back almost immediately, that the operation of Federal control over the big roads was to their disadvantage in this respect, that they have been compelled to pay the same rate of· wages to their employees-.as the wages flled by the Federal Government on tlle -Toails undel' Fef11'ral

8332 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. N OVEl\fBER 11'

control. And the reason they we1·e compelled to do that was because they had to- meet the scale of wages pa,id on· tht> other road . or lose their employees. And there is a ·great deal of force in · that contention. They also claim that traffic has been ilive1·ted from these smaller roads by reason of the Government ue iring to send freight over the most d.i.rect routes1 and in mauy cases freight has been diverted from the small to the

, trunk-line roads. and their earnings have thereby been cut (1own . \Ve provide in this bill that the guaranty shall apply to the r oads thus situated, just as it has to the roads that were operated by the Government during the ];)eriod of Federal controL

An<l we provide also in connection with these roads that the guaranty and division of rates shall apply just us it does on other roads. Of course, you realize the fact that we could not go the whole length that the short-line roads de ire. But we ha-ve given to them the right of this guaranty which we give to the larger roads, for the period of six months, and the right to horrow money, and in the meantime various State commissions and the Federal commissions will have opportunity to readju 't their r a tes ju t as they do the rates of the larger roads.

Mr. BANKHEAD. Is there any provision for th extension of credits of the short-line railroads? .

Mr. BARKLEY. Yes. I think there is p1·ovi ·ion in certain eases where they may be giv n credit, if they are subject to the commerce act.

Mr. GOODWIN of Arkan~a . Will the o-entleman yield? Mr. BARKLEY. I will. l\lr. GOODWIN of Arkansas . Doe · the bill provide in the

eYent the road earns more than a rea o·nable return on its investment, say 6 per cent, it may retain all the eYce · earnings regardless of the amount" of earnings?

Mr. BA.RKLEY. There is no provision in this bill limiling the earnings of any r.ailroacl to ans particular per cent. We assume that a road that is making more than 6 per cent, or malting 6 per cent, will not need the' guaranty. And certainly if it made the application for that and investigation developed the fact that the road was making all of its expenses and· a return of 6 per cent the Inter·state Commerce Commission would not be justified in recommending to the Secretary of the Treasury that any money be advanced to that kind of a road.

Now, we provide, in addition to the standard. return to these roads, whe:t:e. they make an earning over and above the standard return, they, of course, keep it, but when there is no retur.n during the test period we provide that the amount of the guaranty shall be an amOtmt whereby the deficit for the next six months exceeds that for the test period prior to the war. In other words, we pay· back to them the amount they have lo8t by reason of the Government operation during the six months ..

Mr. GOODWIN of Arkansas. The Cummins bill, I unders tand--

~fr. BARKLEY. That bill provides for a guai·anty of retm·n of 5-j per cent on the roads and one-half of 1 per cent for insurance and other things.

.Mr. GOODWIN of Arkansas. All axces earning·· to be collected and covered into the Trea.Slll'y?

Ur. B_-\RKLEY. Ye . And then paid out to road that do not make that much.

Now, I desire to discuss the other features of the bill. How long have I, Mr. Chairman?

The CHAIRMAN (Mr. TIMBERLAKE). The gentleman has 10 minutes remaining.

Mr. BARKLEY. There are two featul'es. of this bill that I object to~ They were not in the bill as framed by the subcommittee. They were put in by the full committee. I desire to discuss them, and I shall offer amendments later on to cover them. ·

Heretofore there has never been any statutory rule of rate making. The rule of rate making which the Interstate Commerce Commission. has always been guided by is that the rate shall be reasonable and just. In the first process of framing this bill the subcommittee .felt that that rule still ought to apply, because it had been interpreted time and time again by the commis~ ion and had been interpreted by the Supreme Court in innumerable decisions, so that as the result of the operation of the interstate-commerce act since 1887 there has been built up around the rate-making clause a line of decisions by the commission itself and by the courts which governed the commission in tile fixing of rate ·. But the committee wrote into the bill a provi Ion of this sort:

'.rho commission shall be charged with the duty and responsibility o! obserTing and keeping informed as to the. transportation needs and the transportation facilities and service of the country. and as to the operating revenues necessary to the adequacy and eftlc:>iency ol such transportation facilities and service. In reaching its conclusions as to the Justness and r~asonableness of any rate, fare, charge, classification regulation, or practice, the com:nission shall take Into consideration the inter~st of the public, the shippers, the reasonable cost of maintenance and

oper:ttion (including tho \Tages of labor, depreciation, and taxes), and a_ fair. return upon the value or the property used ·or held for ·the service of trnnsJ!o.rtation.

Mr. HUDDLESTO r. l\lr. ltairmon, will the gentleman yield"?

Mr. BARKLEY. Yes. · 1\Ir. HUDDLESTON. What pn1't of the bill iS tliat found in?

Mr. BARKLEY. That is section 417 of the bill, page 65. Now, my objection is, in the first place, that I' think it is very

unwise, as tile chairman of the· committee him elf suggested this morning, to write into the l::tw a statutory rule of rate making,

, because tllere- are so Ilh'llly elements that go into the decisions ot the Interstate Commerce Commission as to the reasonablenes and ju. tne of any rate propo ed by a railroad that it is practically impos ible to write into the x:ule- all the things that will enter into the equation. For in.<;tance, there are many roads in this cotmtry which have never earned any return on the valu of their property, and the rea ·on why they have never earned anything i beenuse, in the fir t place, many of them were injudiciously constructed. ; many of them ought never to have been built. If wise foresight and business judgment had entered into the reasons that prompted their construction,_ they woulll not have been constructed. In the next place, many of the road have been very uneconomically and inefficiently managed, and by reason of suci1 uneconoll14!al and inefficient management and operation they have been unable to earn any return on the vah1e of their property.

Now, I am very much afraid that the language which the eommittee has written into the bill, compelling the Interstate ·Commerce Commission to take into consideration the entiTe expense of running the road, and on top of that to bring about such a rate as will give to the road a fair return upon the value of its property, may compel the Interstate Commerce Commi ion to fix rates at such a high level that roads that heretoiore have never earned a dollar on the value of their property may receive such rate as will bring- n return to them, regardless of the character of the management, whether economicaUy and efficiently or otherwise managed and operated; and therefore I believe it would be better to leave out of the law entirely any statutory rule for making rates, leaving it to the commission to see that' all rates1 fares, and charges shall be just and reasonable, and allowing · them to talm into consideration every element in the management and operation of the road to determine whether it is entitled to ·a fair return upon the value of its property. · But if this language shall remain iri the bill, cer·tainly it ought to· be amended so as affirmatively to give the commission the right and to charge it with the duty of considering at the same time whether the property has been economically and efficiently managed, so that they· •muy- survey the whole field upon the application of any carrier for an increase of rates.

Another thing that I object to is a provision in the bill with. reference to the funding of the debts due the Go"V"ernment from the roads.

3.\fr_ HUDDLESTON. · ~r. Ch.ait·man, will the gentleman yield?

Mr. BARKLEY. In a m{)ment. Can I get a few mom nt more time? Well; I will yield to qie gentleman, anyway.

Mr. HUDDLESTON. I would like the gentleman to explain the meaning of the phrase "value of the property." Do it mean market value or value in transportation and use?

Mr. BARKLEY. Well, of course, we have now in operation and process of making a valuation of the railroads of the United States. The Interstate Commerce Commission has been engaged in the last two or three yearS: in fixing a valuation of the physical property of the railroads. That valuation has not been completed, and I assume it will be two or three years before that valuation shall have been completed by the Interstate Commerce Commission. If that valuation had been made there might be some basis upon which to fix the rnlue, and, of course, that would be the valuation of the roads as fixed by the Interstate _ Commerce Commission. But until that valuation is completed and the commission makes its report I am unable even to imagine a valuation that t11e commission may fix upon the property in ascertaining a fair return, and I may say that perhaps the commission would be compelled to tak-e the valuation as represented by the roads themselves-the book va:luntion of the roads that make the application for the increase of rates.

Mr. HUDDLESTON. The railroads l;mye in~isted upQn having their property valued for business and~other purposes similru· to the adjacent property. Others have insisted that it shall be the value for transportation purposes-. Has the Inte1·stat Commerce Commission. reached. any conclusion on that point?

Mr. BARKLEY. No. Ther has been no final conclusion with reference to the valuation of the propm-t . ~rhere is ru subcommittee, us the gentleman linowf: now at worl~ on this valua-

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J919 . -CONGRESSIONAL . RECORD-.HOUSE. 8333 tion, and the estimate is that it wlll be .threevyea.rs before that is ~~~~ . - Mr. HUDDLESTON. So that in -adopting this language you do not know what it means?

1\fr. BARKLEY. You do not. Mr. PLATT. Mr. Ohail·man, will the gentleman yield? Mr. BARKLEY. Yes. Mr. PLATT. 'Vould it be possible in p.ll cases to give a. net

revenue on some roads?· · · Mr. BARKLEY. 1 think it would be necessary to raise the

rates so high on the unprosperous roads that the prosperous t·oads that did not need the higher rate would get all the business.

Mr. PLATT. That is the point, that higher 1·ates may mean less net revenue.

Mr. BARKLEY. Yes. Take two roads .which compete in the same territory. One of them is well managed and economically operated, and it gets a fair return on its -property. It may not need this guaranty. It may be it can ah·eady make a fair l'eturn. The other road is not very well managed. It ma·y be that its operators have been speculating with it a little on the money market and it has made no return of any kind on the value of the property. It makes application to the commission for an increase of rate that will enable it to get a fair return on tho value of its property. The other road does not make the application. Suppose the commission grants the increase. It would not do the road any good at .all, because its rates would be so high in order to guarantee it a return that the business would all go to the other road with the cheaper rate. Th{lrefore you might have one road with one rate and another with another, and the result would be that the traffic would go where the cheapest rates prevai:ecl. So even a small, unprosperou~ road would derive no benefit by reason of this proyision.

The other thing to which I object is the provision for the funding of the debt. 'Vhen the roads are turned back to private ownership the Government will owe the roads a certain amount of money · for compensation under the standard return, and the roads will owe the Government a certain amount of money that llas been advanced by the Government to the roads for the purpose of making additions, betterments, and extensions. Under the bill as originally drawn, it provided that these two accounts should be offset one against the other. In otbe1• words, the amount that the Government owed the roads for compensation should be set off against the amount that the roads owe the

·Government, and the roads permitted to fund the difference, the balance that the roads owe the Government over and above what the Government owes the roads. I think everybody will admit that that is good business. If I owe you $100 and you owe me $200, and we decide that we are not going to do business together a.ny longer and we begin to square accounts, . you need not pay me the $200 you owe me, but you can pay me the differenc~the $100 over and above what I owe you. In other words, we would square our accounts, and you pay me the $100 that you owe me over and above what I owe you. It seems to me that same 1·ule ought to be applied to the railroads. When these roads are turned back to their owners, the Government will owe them perhaps nearly $1,000,000,000. At present I think it is about $800,000,000.

The CHAIRMAN. The time of the gentleman has expired. Mr. BARKLEY." May I have 15 minutes more? · Mr. SIMS. I yield.to the gentleman from Kentucky 15 minutes

more. Mr. BARKLEY. Tlte roads have been advanced by the Gov

crumcrit dm·ing Federal control ' about $1,250,000,000 in order to enable them to make additions and betterments in their equipment and in their tracks, and iri order to meet certain fi.Aed charges which it was necessary that they should meet during Federal control. Under the standard contract which has been entered into between the Government and these roads some of these obligations extend over a period of 10 years or langei·. . It depends entirely on the contract made between the roads and the Government. We, of course, do not propose to violate that obligation. We do not propose to compel them to· violate the contract they have made with the Government, but certainly if the roads owe the Government $1,250,000.000 when they are turned back, anu the Government owes them $800,000,000, or whatever the amount may be, those two accounts ought to be offset the one against the other and allow the roaLls to fund the difference that they owe the Government, even if after they' do it they' have to make application immediately for the borrowing of new funds from the Government, because in that way you wipe· the slate clean of · the Federal-control transaction. · You square accounts, and I would rather the roads would be compelled to offset , th-eir accounts against the . Government and square tile account of ·Federal control; even if the next d:iy they have to come back to the Government rind borrow some money

on a new account made under tho provisions of the bill, uncler which they can borrow this money for five years at 6 per cent if -the -Interstate Commerce Commission permits ·it to be done. Now, under the present language of the_bill a road that may not need to fund its debt, a road that may have enough money·· to pay its obUgations to the Government and not borrow any, can fund its debt to the Government for 10 years. If the road does not need it, it ought not to be given an opportunity so. to funcl its debt, and the Railroad Administration ought to be given the power in such cases to compel the road to offset its debt to the Government against the debt that the Government owes it, and fund the difference, if there is any, between tho~e accounts.

A.t the proper time I hope to offer an amendment that will care for that situation.

Now, I desire brie:fly to discuss the labor provisions of this bill.

lU1 ... BUTLER. It would be very interesting to know the argument that was used before the committee which induced the committee to report what it did report. 'Vhat was the argument that was used? I am impressed with the fairness of what the gentleman says. Wily not offset one account against the other?

Mr. BARKLEY. The argument that was used was this: It was represented that of course these advances that have been made by the Government during Federal control, which are chargeable to capital account, have gone into additions and betterments . . Now, ordinarily the railroads un<ler private control and management borrowed the money necessary to make these additions in betterments on long-time paper-5, 10, 15, or 20 years, as the case might be. The contention made by those who favored the provision of the bill was that if we compel the roads to offset their indebtedness against the Government, it will compel them practically to pay cash for these additions in betterments which otherwise they might have obtained by borrowing money from private sources upon long-time paper. That was the argument that was made by those who favored tllC provisions of the bill

Mr. BTTTLER. I thank the gentleman. 1\fr. ANDREWS of Nebraska. Will the gentleman ~·iehl for a.

question? · Mr. BARKLEY. I yield to the gentleman from Nebraska. 1\Ir. ANDREWS of Nebraska. ).VUJ you kindly state the

amount due from · the roads to the Government and the amount due from the Government to the roads? ·

.Mr. BARKLEY. The Government, according to the report. has advanced to the railroads $775,551.000. That is exclusive of the allocated equipment, where the Government bought a lot of equipment and allocated it among the different roads and charged them with it. On the 24th of l~st month the amount that the Government owed the roads as compensation amountf'd to $885,()()_0,000. · ·

Mr. DENISON. Will the gentleman yield? Mr. BARKLEY. F6r a question." Mr. DENISON. I know the gentleman wants to make a cor

rect statement, and I think the gentleman has made an unintentional misstatement as to the amount.

Mr. BARB..LEY. I would be very glad to be correctecl. Mr. DENISON. The total amount that the Government ha. ·

advanced to all the railroads during the period of Government control is $1,147;151,000.

Mr. BARKLEY. Yes; uut I ha\e subtractet.l from that the amount expended for new equipment, which is not to be fun(led.

l\Ir. DENISON. From that amount $372.000,000 is to be taken care of by means of the eqtiipment car trust, which j ~ now pendhig before the House.

Mr. BARKLEY. Yes. Mr. DENISON. That woulcllea\e $77G,;J31,000 as the capital

expenditure amount. Mr. BARKLEY. That is what I am talking aiJou t-the

amount to be funded is $775,551,000. Now, Mr. Chairman, I desire in the time I haYe remaining tu

take up the labor provisions in the bW. I \vi~h I had time to discuss them in detail. I recognize the fact that there is an insistent demand in certain quartei·s .that Congress should pass legislation incorporating compulsory arbitration in railroau disputes among the employees in the United Sta~es and the railroau transportation companies, and that in addition to that we should penalize the strike that is callecl or entered into by the railroad employees.

In .the first place, if there is to ue any antistrike legislation in the United States, or any penalizing, or any compulsory arbitra· tion, by which I mean a law that will compel men to go before an arbitration or mediation board, and after they have gone befor_e it to compel them to obey its awards, oi· penalize the strike on their pnrt, it certalnJ~· ought to b<' mn•lc to nppl~· to all 1h<' ('Jn-

8334 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD___,HOUSE~ NOYEMBEB 11

plQy es in the United Sta te ·. I f there is to be any uch legi.sla- can, under the supervision o'f ..a tribunal \ Yhlch we haYe set :un tion, it shoul<l apply t o·aiL . here, made up equally of employee anll employers, llli 0 ~,

So far as I am ·concerned, I am not convinced ·that it is wise th~ir difficulties. .There is an mh· ory board ef thr e rel)or practicable to ~nact ·such legislation -tor the ;employees r0f the resenting the public, but they h n:r e ·no T ice in t he dctcrruinaUnited States as a whole. I wi&h ·during .the time I have I tion of the difficulties. The effo.rt f thi '!Jill is to make it en. y cou.lu go into detail with ,referencc to 'legislation of this ·chamcter for the men and the road: to · rupo~ th ir wn dil'f r nc in in eYery country in the ·world. There has been in some countries a friendly way. anti ·trike legislation, and thei'e is no country in .the wurld to-day The OHA,IRMAJ.'\. Tbe time of til gen tl man fro m .K ntu ~y where antistrike legislation was ever enacted where it was en- has again expired. · . forced cxee]lt .by draft ·into the military .service·of men who "Werrt ·Mr. SIMS. Mr. Chairman, I yield the gentleman fi\e minute. out on a strike and penalizing them fo1· ·violating their •oath as a more. member of .the military establishment. Take Italy, F .ra.rrce, and . Mr. BARKLEY. If we will exerci e ·foresight, ·a little good Spain, countr ies of Europe; whereYer they have had legislation · judgment, and patience, as we ought to exercise it, if we set for compulsory arbitration and antistrike legislation they have up a tribunal tltat will inspire confidcnec on both side , I haTe ne\cr been able to enforce it except at the ;point ·of the bayonet. an abiding faith that our industrial troubles, so nn.' as ·they I am not prepared ·tO -vote for a law in the United ;States that relnte to rail.&oad , may be adjusted and scttletl w.ith'out i:bc will draft into the 1\Iilitary E stablishment of our country men necessity of compelling men to go before boards or teompell.ilr!! who go on a strike as a remedy against conditions, where they · them to continue in work after condition have nrisen hich ha~e a grleYance, and .I do not think :the people -of .ibis country they feel justified in ,protesting again t. :would indorse any such !legislation. Mr. NEWTON of Minn ota. Mr. Chairm:tR, ~rill tlle gentl

. T.hey have. a law in Canada known as" the industrial di~pute.s . mnn_y,·eld'? investigation act." There have been·about 191 cases, I ·suppose, 1\fr. BARKLEY. Ye . alto,....ether, submitted to that tribunal set up by the Ganadian Mr. NEWTON of Minnesota. The gentleman menti ned a:n act. Out of ·those 191 case · submitted to thn.t Canadian tribunal ad\isory bom·d of tln·ee, I think, . itting in the appeal board? ther have been 20 .stTikcs among .the .employees .in ;Can:rda, not- ·Mr. . .BARKLEY. Yes. withstanding the law. Six of them were :raih:oad strikes. M:r:. .NE:WTON of Minn~o a. Will the :gentlemrul ex;plain why

Tow, ·men may inveigh against ·violation :of law :by great oodie · ·they has c -not JJeen ~lven a -voice in the decision to be arrived of men, and yet we ru:e confronted by aj)ra:cticalsitua:tion. The :at QY the !board? lt seems to me that these rt:hree, representing law against strikes and ·providing conwulsmw ·nrbitration ·in no the .public, should not ·Only :have the privilege of advising, ·but country lla. ever ·been able ·to be .enfOI'.ced. Great :Britain sent sho11ld .also .have some voice in the 'decision ·of that board. a commission to Oanada in tl.916 io ·investigate tire working Df 1\fr. BARKLEY. The eason why ~that wa:s not done was this : 'tile Canadian act. The Department of Labor 1Ias issued :a bnl- 'What \YC are ·seak:in:g to -do here i · to Jlave .the empl~-ees :aru1 letin of 150'J}ages giving the .opern.tion of the Canadian act up :to employer get rtogether -and -encourage them to settle their own 1.918, und .the .l'eport ·at tire com.mission.er sho:ws :tllat 1\'i'hile :the difficulties ily their tOWn representatives. We thought that :fr1r act itself.haslieeni.n'force since~90.7, it.has-~otjprevented trik the.PUI'Pose of .information .and advice anu publici1Y it was i ·c -and has ·not • .even ;reduced -strike . to ·have a. 'C'omm.ission -of three :representing the public, so :called,

Now, I think it is .fair to say t11at the r niJ::road :emJ)1Qyees of •on hand, to -counsel with :the ·ethers TeJ)resenting the employ,ees the United States are among the highest dass of employees :in and :em_pleye~ ,but ·that ;when it came to .a ilecision of the our country. I think on the "~le they ·are just ;ns jealous ·.of dJfficnlties ·between ct:he :enwloyer and the employees it ·ought to their honor, just ·as patriotic, just as iloyal, as :the :mxe:rage <man, :be Jeft to the ·employer and the employ:ees m· their ·epresentabecnuse the railroad employees of the United States ·come 'from ' d:ives, ewec-ially in view af the fact that we do not comp 1 t11em the firesides of the .average ~family ,among the -A~~iean -pQpula- rto-abicle .by any ·a.ward made by the board. tion. 1 think in 'intelligence, patriotism, ·loyalty, riittegt:ity .they fr. 1\TEW.TON of Minnesota. Assm:nillg ·that plan to be ·car;will measure .up !Well ;with ..any tOther l'class .of men in •the -United lried out, does not -the gentleman tWnk that there ·is gt·a-ve possiStates. I do not thinkthel·eis any Class.that ;exeelsfueraih·oad bility, '01' at least .a possibility, of this appeals board .not com- · employees in the .average of ·character and intelligenc:e. ing to :a decision? 'The ·em_ployee ·and the em_pl&ym' groups mn.y

There has .never ·been :U"flY ;serious ;trouble .:on itlle -railroads ·of cllisagreE'. SUrelY ;there is :a .moral advantage, if .n<>thing else, Jn the United .States .by lack of 'CDID.Puls<n:y .ru:bitration or anti- Jl:Iving.announc:e<l 1n -a !decision, -whether it ,be 1mnde comrmlsoi·y · .strike legislation. Tlle .firs.t -difficulty was dmmediately ·prior :to ; •or net, .the vie"WI>Oint of the .three public advisers. the ..Adamson Act. There ·have .been .numerous ·demands on 1he ; Mr. n.All.KLEY. '0£ ·cmrrse there is a possibllity o.f a -dead·pal't of labor !for an. increase in :wage, .an.d during the .. Government : .iluck -between the tht:ee ::repre ·en.tatives tOf labor lllld the threu operation of roads these demands have been in practicallY revecy • -11epre.8enta.tives ··of the .emplQyers. There is always that _possicase met by the Railroad Administration, r,ecognizing tthe :JU tice, llility, 1m.t if there were T-ery many rca.ses of deadloCks, and the at least in part, of ·tho demand tlte men ~ave :made. group epre ·enting the ·}>Ublic took .sides ~with one ide ·or the

There have been ,established in 1he .Railroad .iA.dmini.stration other, .ultimately tberc mi,ght .be .cre!Ited a suspicion on ithe ·part hoa1·cls ·of arbltrati.on to pass on wages :an.d conditions · of ilabor, of •one :Or 1.the other .that they had not gotten n 'fulr cleal, Wld we anu the representatives of labor:and of .the Railroad Administra- 'felt 'that it -was best i:o !leave 'these difiicnltie 1:o the partie. to tion have ·gotten .together .around ~the .table, ·ann :in ninety-nine the dispute, even subject to a deadlock. case· , out ·of ~n ·hundre~and I believe I .mn justified in -:sn:y:ing Mr. C00PEJl. Mr. Chairman, will the ·"'cntleman yield? ·a llundred ·:cases ·out of a 'h.nndJied-where the :men .have .gott~n 1\fr. BARKLEY. Yes. . together around the table ·they have been able ;to settle :their Mr. OQOPIDR. I ;woulCI :Uke 1:o ·say to ~Y colleague on the eem-troubles withouLserious difficulty. :W.e are passing rtln·ough a ·mittce that that was one of the great troubles in the steel strike. Tery criticalpexioa, ct:hl!ough :a Jpe:niod when ·not -alone Jabol'lng 'The.steel manufacturers maintain that .the ·men ·who ~came before men are .ihe ·ones ho are :qgitated. Labo:rlng "'llen ~e excited. them .and "Wanted •to negotiate the ..que tiorrs Telati:ve to the hour ·

~but evcry.on.e -else .is ·excit.ed. :Business -is-excited. pollticians;nre · ·of !labor an.d wages, :and so forth, ·were .not _representatives ·of the excited. Everybody in ·the United -states :is .more o.r 1ess dn .a men or ,(lid not :wm:k in ;the ·steel indu try ~thcms:elves; .and 1liis state of confusion, and now, because of 'this state Df ;confusion ibill ,p:rav.ldes -that rthe ·e :men s1lal1 .be .actual employee f 'the and chaos, ·as .a a·esnlt •of !the .reorganization ana econs.tructlon railroad anti members ·of i.tlle :marul.gement. o'f our economic ·system because of the results ,of the ~ru;, .there 1\1r. BARKLEY. Yes; ·so ;that ·difficulty is •obviated . . are labor disputes and troubles throughout .the eotmtJry. 1But Mr. SMALL. Ir. Ohairmrn, wUUhe :,....entlcman yield? ·the ·e arc only temporary. They _are transitoo:y.. J: !have :.grflat 1\Ir . .BARKLEY. Yes . . faith in the belief ·that rw.hen 'the war is end-ed ...and the .petiod .MJ:. SMALL. The ·gentleman has been -ill ·cussing the wlsdoru Of 1.'cconstr.uction tand . transition is tpasseil, lahor an<l ·capital, :.of making strikes ·by .rai.b:oad -employee nnlawful. Are ,we :to industl;y, ·.nntl •e'9'el'y.ODe £else -;will >get :on a rllOO.'Jnal ib'asis and ;We 'lmilerstand the :gentleman .to . ay that the makeS no distinetion will be :able to -I'eadjust our national life along j;bc line 1\Y"e between r.ailroad •employees .and ... employees ·of •other public .utiliIollowed •<luring .. our ;previous this:to~-y .b.efore .the rwar. [Ap- :;fies and the employee or -private ln.du trial corporations? .ll)lanse.1 ii -sineeJ.:ely !hope ·congress ·will not :be swept off its l\11:. :BARKLEY. do not mcau i:o J>ay .that ..I ..make no ili tlncife.et into l.'UBhing 1througn :le_gisln;ti{)-n that w:ill ~e .un.w.ise tion -:J>etween them, .becan-se :fhare is :a llistinction ..to this ·ex:tent: ·eeonomicalJy ;-and :jmpracttcal from ·evro:y ·:Standpoint, ~lJecaus.e One of tlTem ~is ·:wm~king :for ;a Jq:nasi-;.puolic :coo;poration .and 1the we now hap1Jen to ·be in a temporary state of mental ·excitement ntlrer .is .ongugeiLin..-u;PriYate.indusb,·y.,..anu.th.et:efore.itmaybe·sa1.d and :agr~tion ;because of disputes .that are now in.JlL:Ogress. 'In : that th.e:pu.ulic has n ;gr.cater.interestln :th:e-continuation·.of.tcmstime it ·w111 nn ·il7.on ..itself ·out ana -simmer :do.wn to a ,uel'lllftl .portatio.n faCilities than·in fue continnation o:f.a ·private.indn.stJ:s_ ·c(111Clition. · . ..But ·so lfar ;as .:the;princip1e s ;cQ.W!exnea, J: .:can not -see tlle .mf·

·.r thin'k ll ., ·ha.ve .fProrlded in this .bill .a .J:uil~ •tJ:ibunal, .'\mei:e · Efexence .between .railroad lstl:.ikc ::mu·_str'ikes iin ..any Oler gr.eat .men can .go rv01unta:rfly, :.and mot :by the spur :md IWlUD, :tto ett1e 'lndlliltry .th:rt ~ct ~fthe JPulillC :to ;great Uisa.d:v.antqge. :But =their ·h·otibles ; ::wJICre laboting men and men who ·employ -:them so 'Iar -a 'the pt'lnciple is concerned, I ilo no~ ,b'elieye, even con-

QON j-RE~ IO J" =:& REOilliD-L RtJUSE. 8335 ceding' that antistrike legislation ought· to be cnaetedl-Whicll I: do not concede-that railroad employees, who nrc among th'e most patriotic and intelligent of' our country, should be singled our for such action where other employees are not subject . to p1•o.visions of this kind. [Applause.] It would not be fair or just to penalize. one class of employees because they '\\"ork for transportation companies that cover thE:> whole- country. [Applause.l

l\lr. HAMILTON. Mr. Chairman, I, yield 20" minutes to tlie gentleman from Pennsylvania [.Mr. W -ATSON].

Mr. WATSON of Pennsylvania. Mr. Chairman. I ask unantmous consent to revise and extend my remarks in the RECORD.

The CHAIRMAN. The' gentleman from Pennsylvania asksunanimous consent to revise and extend his remarks in the REco&n: Is there objection? L:A:fter a pause.] Thu Chair hears mme.

Mr. WATSON of. Penngylv·ania. Mr •. Chairman, previous to my remarks r wish to pay a ttibute to the chairman of our committee, who labored for weeks and months in order to· report a bill relensing the railroads from Government control ancl at the arne time prov1de for them under pr1vate ownership, that they

may not only meet their financial obligations but. give adequate servicE:' to the puhlic. In this I belf€'ve 1\lr. Escn: was succe::;, ful.

Under the power·s of an act making appropriations for the support of the Army for the fisc-al ,3ear ending June. 30, . 1917, the President of the United States " took posses..c;;ion and as·sumed control at 12 o'clock noon on DecembPr 30, 1917, or-certain railroads, systems of transpmtation, lnctuding the railroads and. transportation systems of the companies and· the appurtenances·· thereof, and directed that the possession, control, operation, and utilization of transportation systems thus taken . should be exercised- by and through William G. McAdoo, .appointed Directo1• General of the Railroads."

The Preslflent in a prochtmation stated that it is hfs purpo e-to release Federal control of"railroadson January1:1920. Thusthe present bill has been reported for your immediate consideration.

The clause 'ot the section that empowered the President to take po essiorr and assume control of all the tram~portation systems of our country, contained only. nine lines, l1ut it neeessitate<t' a bill o~86 pages to release that.conn·oJ with the incidents thereto.

Erevious to the war there was a growing sentiment in favor ot nationaliz:ltion of railroads, but nf-ter- two yertrs of forc€'d trial of Government control, though under most unfavorable cir~ cumstances, the opinion of the public has materially changed to the contrBry .

.A:. number of plans were outlined to the committee· favoring the Government guaranteeing the prtnc1ple and Interest of railroad bonds and stock under a readjugtment. Tlris measm·e is frPe fr'om the tincture of state ste\T'arrlship, save section 2ll8;

·wblcb approprintes the sum of $250,000,000 as a revoh1ng fond f01"· the purpose of making· loans to railways as ther~in proV'lclPd; therehy enahling th€'m to. facilltate their improvements to mPet- the neE:>cls of the public. ·

The mileage of th€' ~team railroadR o-r · rue world Is 71.3;120 milPs, of whfc'h 237,010 miles are ownert or controlled hy the

T11e United Stnh!s hBs ·in op€'ration· 257,700 miles, one-third of the railway mileage of the world. several Governments.

r ask· unanimous consent to extend: in th'e · RE:conn th1s table, showing the mileage owned or controlled by the various countries of the world.

Mileage oW11.ed or· contr~Z.Zed blJ tho vat·ious countries of the toorld. [Source: Bulletin p:.Jblished by the National City Bank · of New Yort.

191~1 -

Clmnt.ry';

I• 1

state Total Y il railway

oar. • -ra Yiays. . ·. mileage . (miles);• ~ (miks).

; Percent· mileage '

owned or ·controlled

by Gov; emment

to total mileage.

Argent~ •••••••••.•.•.•••.••••..••• 1

1916 I ~ 4)13& ·~ 22.,~ ! 18.23 Australia ..•••••••••••••••••••••• n··· - 1915 • ~ 2D,-062 } 22;263 , 90.11 Austria·Hun~Y···~···: ••••••••••••• : 1914 - 24;1100 4 29,328 , 81.83

~~~~1F:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: m: I ~:~og . J J:~- · ~~:~ Canada.·~~·-·····-··-~········ · ···· 1915 , 11 768 [r 35, &l2 4:97 Cblle ••••• -········-~·······~· .. ······ , 1915- 1 3,238 I! 5,015 64.57 China-~·-··-···-··-················ 191U' ••••.•...... _ 61 461 ·······--··· Denmark............................. 1915 . 1, 250 l ~ 4.'i5' oo:9Z

~~~----~:::::::::::::::::::::::~:::: . ig~ ~:r t 3i:~ ~t~ fne~~.:::::::::::::.::::::::::::::::: . t~~:: ~~~:~ ; i?,~ ~:~

&[~~:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::,; }!}i. ~!. _1 :!;! ~~~ Ne-therlands .................. --·····-· • 1915> 1H20 · i 2,075 53.9S: New-Zentand ••••••••••••• .••••••••• ·-. 19ltl 2,1160 ~ ; 989 99. 03

~~~~:.::-:::::::::::::::::::::::::::: t~: }~Foo' 1 };:g ~:tf Roumania •••.•••••••..••...• ··- .• . .•• 1914- 2,350 J 2; ;nl2 98.66 Russia ••••••••••••••••••••••••••• ~··· 1916 371800 1 4.8,9.'i5 77.21

f~~it::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: };l~ · ······3;045· ~ g:~ ····-··aa:ro Switzerland-.......................... 191G 3-,537 -j 3,571 99.Q-5 Turkey............................... 1914 1,200 84,, 95~~ ~·.~1-8 _ Union of South Africa-................ 1915 7,8341 : ov oo United Kingdom..................... 1915 ······-····· 23;701 ••••.•...••• Unit.od States......................... 1911 • •••••• -~ . ·-: 1 265,218 ••••.• -- .•. -

· Ali .other ••••••• ·-·~.·- •• ·- •••••.••. J' •••••. 1_. __ 3_,11!_0

11 _ -!----36_~ _1zo_, ___ 1_0_. 27 _ _

Tota.H •••••••••••••••••• ··- ••••• ; ••• ~-· ' - 237 {()1(1 - 1

EEF~~:::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::,i 1if~; J Asia .••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• : 47,000 • j Africa ................................. ····~-· • 19,000 I'" Oceania.-~-························· ........ l 22,000.;

713,120 217,000 3Zl,OOO 52,000. ~ G9,000 < 29,000 23,000

33.24 S4.38 4.64

30.77 68.12 65.52 95.65

The totar capital outstanding of the railways· of tlle United States is ~ $20,247;659,406, composed ot. the ' following forms of securities :. Bonds---------------------------~--- $l0, 761, 145, 441" Stock ------------------------------~~3, 7U6, 550

1.9,704,941,991 to which- sliould.; be added' $482,717·,411',. the ·· obligation of the swltCliing: and. terminal companies+ ma~ing a1 total of $20,247,· 659,402. lnvested' in · the rallroads of~ the• Un1~d States.

r ask unanimous :consent to e..~tend in · tbe RECORD the followling tabl~ shmving the capital - of_ the · railways of the· United States-actually outstanding on•Decemben 31;.-,1917:

Railway capital acl11.4Ug o-utsto.ndinfJ 01~ Dec. st, 1911: Railway~ of the United States.

Stook:. Funded debt. Class of comprulics. Totrurauway l----------------.-----~------~-------------1-----------~--------~--------.----------y,~~----~~-------

ou~l!~g .Mort~go Collateral I lncome ksce11aneous Equipment Total. , Common. Rralcrrei. Total. bonds. trust bonds. . bonds. obli~ations. obligations.

ss,ooa, 642,522 $1,644,166,766 .;9 to7, 993,54fL so, 770,847, o:n $823,230, 49=t isoo, 555, £&') ,;$8!1s, 281,907 $338,012,223 3~,075,062 28,900,~ ·~9 919 535 238,906,140 1,248,!XJ5 8,708,537-t• 4,300,344 6,749,584•

t,a, oos, 942 5,3.62_. 907 sa:ti44:m .- : 51,193, 22-J · 16,800 _ 1,830,ooo..! 1 22o,m _J 374, 4.5J

• I ' ~ 1,174,435,506 143,307,645 1,33 ,58'7,383 ;1,13&,636,189 • 4 '719,54& . 22.W7:58LJ: 1 l~j728-;641 4;<165,~

Class 1 carriers_. ••••••• $16,355,801,833 IS7, 247,009,288 Class ll carriers........ LOS, 894, 797 248,975, 2ti2 CJass Ill rorriers....... H2,913,827 c9,2G8,849 No~erating com- ·

fo c~e!sr,~~ lll.carriers)u....... 2,057,330,534 11 317,743,151

Total, aU classes' 19,764, 94.1, 991 9,003, 796,550 7,182,059,032- 1;821, 737,518 1J,161JH5,t141- ~8;- 197, 582,584 873,275,771 .334;~pgT'lt;OOO,,S53,392 f34.9,661,691

Notincluding switching and-terminal comp:mics, Whose outstandlng'socuritles-wcrb llS follows: _ Total .......................................................... .................................... ·- ................................................ ·- ..•...• U82, 717,4.11

Stock: Common ••••.••.•.•••••••••••.•••••••••••...•.••••.•••.•...••.•..•.•••••........•.•• -····~··················--·················-··················-·····-- 1361555,2al Preferred ••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• ·~···· ••••••••••••••••••••••••••.•••.••.•••• ······-······~~· ·· ••• •u •••.•••••••••••••• ···~·- ••••• ····~· ••• • • •• 9,323,000

TotaL .•..•.•.••..•••. ·~· ·u·•········· ............................................................. -··- ....... : ................................... ·- .. :u5j8S!;~a7•

... ~~1~H~~HHH~~~~E:HH~~H~~~~~~:~~~:~~~j~:~~~:~~:~;~;~~;::::~; :~: ~~~:::: -~:H: :::~:~~:~t::::~m:j~:::::~~:.:~t~i ~otal. ....••..••••••••••.•••.••..•.•...•.. ___ • __ ........ _ .-__ . _ .•.. _ •.... _ ....•••.•.........•.•••.... _________ . _ . ___ . _ .... _.............................. 336, 833,154

8336 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. N OV1'.1:JIBER 11 '

A mount and per cent of capital stock upon tobich dividends were decl4reil; a nil aUnitn:a,a;![:S~ per cent of divid~nils ileclareilfor the yt:.ar ending Dec . 31 , 1917: Railways o[t\J

Percent of Amount or Amount or I AV<~"''' Ratio of divl-Class of companies. stock yielding stock yielding dividends on divtdend- dendsdeolared

dividends. dividends. declared. yielding stock. to all stock.

Class I carriers and their nonoperating subsidiaries •••••• ·-··········--·--·······-· 64.73 $5,539,378,650 tl76, 518,349 6.80 4.40 Class ll carriers and their nonoperating subsidiaries •••••..••• - ••. ; .•••.•.••..•.•.•. ·- •. 18.05 63,797,360 4,860, 931 7.62 1.38 Class m carriers and their nonoperating subsidiaries •••••••.••••••••••. ·- .•••••••••••••. 8.20 7,598,033 472,26S 6.22 · .51

'fetal, aile lasses ..••.•.•...•••••••.•...•.•.•••.•••••••••••••••. ·.·.····--·········· 62.32 5, 610,774,033 381,851,518 6.81 4.21

When the Government assumed control of the railways, 62.3 per cent of the earnings of the carriers yielded dividends at an average rate of 6.81 per cent. To provide for the permanent termination of Federal control of railroads, in a way to enable them to earn their operating expenses and fixed charges, is a very difficult problem to solve.

I am opposed to Government ownership of railways, and favor Federal control only so far as legislation is needed for their proper management. It bas been well established that employees of railways under Government ownership are less pro· ficient; their individualism under restraint; and the absence of responsibility creates a stigmatism of character.

The freight charges per mile are less in the United States than in any other country save India, where the wages are very low. In Japan the rates of transportation are higher than in the United States, although the average compensation of railway employees is $116.96 per annum, while w1th us it is $825, in accordance with the table of 1914. The present average of the railway employees in the United States has been incre~ed to $1,200 per annum.

lt noted example of the inefficiency of Government operation was demonstrated after the French Government purchased the Western Railway. The company filed with the director of finance an application for additional capital, which was needed for its increased traffic. The Government refused to approve the request. The private railway companies i.n France may guarantee a fixed rate of interest on their stock, backed by a guaranteed arrangement wi~h their Government that it will loan the railways the necessary funds at 3 per cent to pay the dividend thus guaranteed. It was under these conditions that the State acquired the franchises of the Western Railway on Jnnunry 1, 1909. The last report, published · in 1914, indicated that the operating railroads under Federal control increased 27.2 per cent and the total operating expenses had increased 93.3 per cent, and the taxpayers were required to meet an operating deficit of $14,752,237 for the year 1914.

The number of employees and their aggregate wages were -very much increased, their efficiency perceptibly declined. Onehalf of their employees suffered from ill-health. The explana· tlon of the malady is quite clear. In case of sickness, the men received full pay. The Western Railway of France is a concrete example of GovE'rnment ownership. Ninety per cent of the French railway capital is in the form of bonds, which are practically guaranteed by the State: But few of the private companies meet their dividend obligations without the aid of the Government.

The reports that I have been able to obtain from all countries of the world indicate that accidents occur more frequently under Government control than under private owner-ship.

Title 3 of the bill contains provisions regarding the settlement of disputes that may arise between carriers and their employees. While I voted to retain the title, I did not consider it of great >alue, because it failed to provide sufficient penalties. A law without punishment to enforce it is weak by nature. I want a law to guard the rights of the American citizens, or a foreigner while working under the protection of our flag. [Applause.] The liberties of the employees should be protected with the same care as their employers. I want a law to punish any man, or a collection of men, who interfere with the rights of any one legitimately earning what he may for himself and his family. [Applause.] There have been but few serious strikes in the railroad world. The Pennsylvania Co. employs over 200,000 men. It is tee oldest railway company in America. Its employees never attempted to stop the operation of the line. My experience as an employer of railroad men during 20 years has been such that warrant me to praise and honor them. They are loyal. intelligent studept · of their work, a~d willing to meet any emergency in reason when in the interest of the public. The very genernl spirit of knowledge through our public school systems "bas broken down the exclusiveness of

the educated classes," and thus extended to the workin()'man the power of meeting his employer with intelligence and judg· ~e~t. I_f the development of the human mind does not advance C1!1lizatwn, then _ uniYersnl compulsory education will be u failure.

When the railroads are reh1r'ned to private ownership I hope the laws will be so adjusted that Federal control wili not be needed to continue their operations.

Two things are essential to prevent receiverships: · Rates-:-the function of the Government. Economy-the function of the railways. The clan e on page 65, commencing on line 0, renu as

follows: The commission shall be charged with the duly am1 responsibility

of observing and keeping informed as to the transportation needs and the transp?rtation facilities and service of the country, and as to the operating r~vennes necessary to the adequacy and efficiency of such transportation facilities and service. In reaching its conclusions as t<? the justn~ss and reasonableness of any rate, fare, charge, classiftcat?on, reg~lation, or practice, the commission shall take into consideration the mterest of the public, the shippers, the reasonable cost of maintenance and operation (ineluding the wages of labor, depreciation, and taxes), and a fair return upon the value of the property used or held for the service of transportation.

This is the crux: of the continuation of private ownership. Railways can not meet the requirements of the many statutes,

the rules, and regulations adopted by the Interstate Commerce Commission, obey its mandates, unless this commission pru· vides a schedule of rates that will enable the railways to meet their operating expenses, including the :fixed charges. The question of control at this time would not influence rate mak· ing, for rates must be increased if adequate service is to be maintained.

The American people are accustomed to an unexcelled system of railway transportation, and if they continue to demand palaces for terminals and ask to be carried over the rails at a speed of 60 miles an hour, riding in de luxe coaches, sleeping, and dining cars, they must pay for these privileges through increased rates. I believe the traveling public and the shippers will favor higher fares and charges when they understand the financial condition of the railways; when they are apprised of the fact that nearly $2,000,000.000 of railroad securities are part of the assets of life-insurance companies, and that railways, like other industries, can not rontinue operations when expenditures are greater than the revenues.

The rate-making clause to which I have alluded is unquestionably the one saving clause by which the railways may hold their properties. It will establish a credit basis in order that ·funds can be raised for auditions and betterments; that new territory may be opened and new industries created, thus increasing our <!ommerce with the world.

May individualism, the >ery foundation and strength of our Republic, be not superseded by nationalism, the road to in-efficiency and public decay. [Applause.] ·

MESSAGE FROM THE SEKATE.

The committee informally rose; and 1\lr. TEMPLE having taken the chair as Speaker pro tempore, a message from the Senate, by l\1r. Dudley, its enrolling clerk, announced that the Senate had passed bill of the following title, in which the concurrence of the House of Representatives was requested:

S. 3332. An act authorizing the board of county commissioners of the County of Hartford, in the State of Connecticut, to con· struct a biidge across the Connecticut River between Windsor Locks and Ea t Wind or at Warehou ·e Point, in said county and State.

THE RliLTIOAD BILL.

The committee re umed its session. Mr. BARKLEY. Mr. Chairman, I yielU one llour to the gen

tleman from Louisiana [Mr. SANDERS], · a mfrnb r of the committee.

Mr. SANDERS of Louisiana. 1\fr. Chairman and 'gentlemen of the committee, after listening, as I ha>e, to the prai e of this

1919 . . CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-ROUSE. 8337

bill it may be that I am going to tund alone, ·but I am opposed the bill is written .desJgnedly for that purpose or ignorantly; to its passage. the effect upon the ·body politic is the same. I know what is

Mr. BLANTON. Mr. Chairman, in view of the fact that the going to be the ans-Wer to that. I have beard it time and time gentlemnn is going to give us the other side of the case we again. The answer is going to be "we ha-ve no water t ransought to have a quorum here to 'bear him. It is one of the portntion now." most 1mportant bills this House bas considered. I make the That is true. The railroads have killed water transportation point of no quorum. The gentleman from Louisiana would in the past. This bill gives the corpse a decent funeral; that like to have a quorum, would be not? is all. The railroads have been able to ·prevent water trans-

Mr. SA.i~DEH.S of Louisiana. I am perfectly willing to speak portation. This bill gives them the power to forever prevent to those who are willing to hear. water competition. Pass this bill and every dollar that Con-

The OHAIRl\lAN. The Ohair Will count. [The Ohair progress has voted for river improvement might as well have ceeded to count.] been dumped into the middle of the Atlantic. Pass thi bill

Mr. BLANTON (during the count)". Now, Mr. Chairman, and the dream of the utilization of our waterways will that we have about 75 men in here, 1 withdraw the point of no never come about. Pass this bill and you 'have placed · water quorum. transportation at the mercy of an eneiD8 that has never kno"\"fn

The CHAIRMAN. The point is withdrawn, and the gentleman mercy. from Louisiana [Mr. SANDERs1 is recognized. The most remarkable thing to me about the ·railroads of

Mr. SANDERS of Louisiana. 1\lr. Chairman, I am opposed America is that, unable themselves to do the .business of this to this bllJ in its present form, and I cnn not and will not vote people, admittedly unable to furnish us with the transportation for it unless it is materially amended. Before discussing facilities we need, yet in season and out .they seek to prevent the this bill I would like to call the attention of the committee utilization of the greatest system of waterways with which God for a moment to the situation that at present confronts this has ever blessed a country. The railroads can not perform the Hoose. functions to-day that they ought to perform. The railroads

Congress met on 1\Iay 19. The President had already stated to to-clay can not give us the transportation facilities that we :are the people that the railroads would be returned to their owneJ:S entitled to, that our needs demand, that our industries require, by the firs t of the year. There was introduced in this House and that the growtll of this Nation and .this ,people absolutely on June 2 the foundation of this bill. Day after day was must have. Yet, unable as they a1·e to give .it, by hook and by consumed in hearings, and the testimony is so voluminous crook, by every device known to the human mind and human that I a:m of the opinion that practically not a Member of this ingenuity, they have worked to prevent any -competition whatsoHouse, save the membership of the committee, has in any ever by water. way been able to follow. the testimony adduced before that This bill that is before you to-day is not the ·bill that was committee. considered by our committee. This bil1 has been so worded and

After about five months of hearings this bill was referred to a amended, sometimes to its benefit, sometimes to its disadvantage, subcommittee coDBisting of five members, the three ranking that it is practically not even the bill in .any shape that the Republicans and the two l'Ilnking Democrats. This subcom- subcommittee reported to the fulJ committee. If _you will turn mittee had tlTis bill before them some fue weeks, and they re- to page 58 of this bill, paragraph 6, you wm ,find incorporated ported it to the full committee week before last. The full com- in · there certain language known as the Rich amendment. It mittee, therefore, had it 'bc:fore it some ro days, and now it is begins on line 10 and ends on line 22. The Rich amendment before this House to-day, and under the rule adopted yesterday was urged upon our committee by Mr. Edgar Rich, a lawyer of general cleba:te will close to-morrow at 12 o'clock, and it is Boston, and the effect of the Rich amendment is to do away with expected and presumed that this bill will be passed by this House that part of the Panama Canal act whicb prohibited a railroad before we adjom'll on Saturday. line from competing with itself by water.

Now, this bill did not get inte tne bands of the membershJp Do yon gentlemen know what that means·? tf .th-e -railroads of this House tmb1 yesterday-:r\!onday. There is no man here have the right, the legal right, to .compete with themselves by nble to inform himself in that short time as to what it contains. water, as proposed here by this gentleman .from Boston repreAnd I believe if they were able to inform themselves as to what senting certain interests, tnen that means -simply this. and notnis contained in this bill, it would get but very few votes in this ing more, that they will see to it that nobody else <lOmpetes with Bouse. them by water. That ls all that it can mean.

I listened this morning to the magnificent speech o:f our chair- Here is a river paralleling a railroad. You and 1 put our man, and I never heard a better presentation of a case in my money into a steamboat. There is enough ·freight originating life than he macle. But l1e knows, and I know, that there are along that stream to make om· venture 'Profitable, and yet provisions -in this bill that he is just as bitterly opposed to every ton of freight that we carry we tak-e from the raih·oad, as I am; and he knows, and I know, that there are clauses and the process to ruin us is as -old as the history of rail itself. cont.c'lined in this bill which are of such a radical departure It is this: When that happens the railroad puts a boat into from all that we have heretofore lrnown and held in regard that trade, too. Now, there is not enough trade there _ for two to transportation, and I know tllat they were put in there ·boats, or if there is the railroad manages to -get it. It can run over and above his protest and over and above the protest of its boat at a loss until it has driven -the independent boat off prn.ctically half of the committee, and some of them above the the river ,and then when the independent boat ·di-sappears, protest of all the subcommittee who have so ably handled this the next .act in the tragedy is the disappearance of the railmeasure. road boat. And yet, on page 58, in -the amendment proposed

When I state• that I can not support this bill I am doing it with- by l\fr. Rich, you write the proposition that you not only out any reflection whatsoever upon the subcommittee or the com- will permit thp.t kind of business, but you authorize it and mittee itself. I believe tllat we in this Congress and in this legalize it. House ought to deal absolutely frankly one with the other. I np- Why, my friends, the chairman of the committee [l\lr. preciate as fully and as completely as any man in this House EsOH] made a talk this morning about this .heneflting 1akc the problems that confronted that committee. I appreciate their transpm·tation, and he spoke about the disappearance of the earnestness and their work. l appreciate their zealousness, boats off the Lakes. \Ve have heard the gentleman from 'Vistheir honesty of purpose, and their sincerity of conviction. But consin; you would -have thought that nothing had driven them that does not, and will not, control my judgment or influence my off the Lakes save and ·except the provisions of the Panama vote. Oana.l act. And yet I distinctly remember ·seeing pictures in

There are many things in this bill that I approve of, but if, the papers not long ago, when In the -eagerness ·to get bottoms in order to get things that I approve of, I must vote for things lake vessels were actually cut in two in orda• that the two that I know are wrong, then that is asking me to do something halves .might be taken through the canal to the ocean. You that I will not and can not do. [Applause.] have seen them.

Fundamentally this bill is wrong. It makes no difference They say there arc no boats now. No.; and 'how have boats whether it was written with that view in mind pm·po ely or been prevented from being on the Lakes and on 'the rivers? not, for the effect will be the same. This bill does not take one There is not a man wllo does not know of what I am speaking drop of water out of the stock of a single railroad, but it drains when I speak of potential competition. There .is not -a man who every river and every lake in this country dry, because if it lives on lake or river or bayou or navigable stream of any becomes law you will never hear the whistle of a steamboat description who does not know what is meant by potential upon river or lake unless that whistle and that sonnd is con- . competition. It has not been practiced in the last few years, trolled, dictated, and dominated by the ·railroad interests of I aHmit, but it was practiced long enough by the rail-

mel'ica. It makes no difference with me, gentlemen, whethe1· roads an(l permitted by the commission to nbsoh1tely <:le~troy

.

8338 CONGRESSIONAL R.ECORD-HOUSE. NovEl\IBER 11,

river competition throughout the length and breadth of this with in the committee. Gentlemen said it was a power granted country, and to practically destroy the use of the Panama that will never be exercised. That is the most foolish lullab,y Canal itself. to sing yourself into security with that bas ever been sung.

Here we have millions of dollars invested in the Panama There never was a power granted to any governmental agency Canal, and yet we have permitted rates to be made that abso- that was not exercised sooner or later, and generally sooner." Iutely prevented the use of the Panama Canal, and prevented I remember here in this House when we passed the Federal conthe tonnage tolls from flowing into the Treasury of the United trol act I opposed granting to the Director General the right to States. It was done for whom and at whose suggestion? The fix rates. I opposed it on this. floor, and we heard the same railroads! All thrQugh this bill, all through Title IV, runs the song then: "Oh, it is a power that is granted unto him, but he control of water and water transportation, tied up in this . bill will never exercise it." in such a manner that you can not disconnect one from the I stated before the committee and here upon thi. _:floor that if other; tied up so that the bill is almost incapable of being you gave him the power he would have to exercise it. I was amended. not a prophet, but I knew human nature. I knew the exigencies ~ake the dock provisions. You will find those on page 60- of the situation. And lo and behold, we woke up one morning

b~inning on page 59, section 411. I have not the time in my and found that freight rates had been advanced overnight 25 hour to read it. Read it for yourselves. Study what it means. per cent. I am not complaining at the advance. I am merely Is it in the interest. of water carriers? There is not a line in stating that we conferred the power and that the power· was it that the water carriers have ever asked for. There is not exercised. a line in this bill in regard to water transportation that a I have cited my own great city, but there are other gentlemen shipper by water, real or potential, has ever asked for. There whom I see in this House right now whose municipalities and is not a line in this bill that any man who has ever used the communities have voted bonds and have built their own termiwater of this Nation-canal. river, lake, or coastal boat-there nal facilities. Before you vote for this bill I want you to is not a line in this bill that any one of those men who ever understand that the Interstate Commerce Commission can. domiused or expects to use the waters, coastal or inland, of this nate and control and fix rates, fares, and charges for every Nation has asked for. There is not a pro>ision in this bill that terminal, every dock, every belt road, irrespectiYe of its ownerwas not submitted by every railroad interest to our committee. ship. Therefore if every railroad interest asked for these restrictions, I could go on with a recitation of these provisions. The whole and not the user of a boat, not the owner of a boat has asked bill is full of the control vested, not for but against water for it, nor a shipper by water, nor one hoping to be a shipper transportation. If it did . not do anything in the world exin the future, am I not justified in saying that it was written cept-innocently it may be-to prevent water transportation, for the railroads, and against the water transportation systems this bill ought never to pass. of this Nation? Do you know that we have here in this country the greatest

Mr. GREEN of Iowa. Will the gentleman yield? unused asset that any people on earth ever had? That is our Mr. SANDERS of Louisiarut. I want to conclude my argu- water transportation, which is the greatest asset that any

ment, because I .am pressed for time, and then I will yield. 1 nation on earth to-day has or that any nation ever has had. We The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman declines to yield. . 1 have stretching out through this land great high~.ays builded by Mt·. SANDERS of Louisiana. May I call the attention of this the hand of God Himself, placed there in order to meet our

committee to this one fact in regard to section 411? Turn to wants, in order to enhance our progress anq our prosperity. page 60, line 1, and look at the words. Nothing escaped them. Millions on top of millions of dollars haYe bee:p spent by · this They passed nothing up. Look at the words: Congress to make these waterways safe. and .navigable. Yet

Irrespective of the ownershi-p of the dock. while those appropriations were being made and those laws were What was that put in there for? Because not all the docks being passed, on the one hand, laws were' being enacted, on the

in this land are owned by individual£. Not all the docks in other hand, the effect of which has always been to prevent America are owned by railroads or by steamboat companies. water transportation. This bill does what, clearly and conA great many of the docks along the great rivers and in the cisely? As I said a moment ago, it gives water transportation !rreat cities are owned by the municipalities thereof. .They have a decent funeral, because the railroa~ of the country have taxed themselves to build their terminal fa.cllitles for boats and killed it already in the past. water transportation. · Mr. CLEARY. :M.ay I ask the gentleman a question?

Down in my State we have great docks at the city of New Mr. SANDERS of Louisiana. Yes. Orleans. They were not built by any steamboat or railroad Mr. CLEARY. Does not the gentleman think that the trans-company. They were not built by the municipality of New ferring of goods from rail to 'vater and from water to rail ls Orlean . They are owned by the people of the sovereign State conducive to the best interests of the country? of Louisiana, controlled by and through a State agency. Bonds Mr. SANDERS of Louisiana. I do not think anything about haYe JJeen issued for the building of those docks. The revenues it. I know it. of tho e clocks are pledged to the payment of the interest and Mr. CLEARY. As long as it does that, is it not a benefit? ·the prin~pal of the bonds. Under management of this State 1\fr. SANDERS of Louisiana. I do not think anything about institution we have built up a port business there until New the proposition. It is just as true as that two and two make Orleans to-day is the second port in the United States of Amer- four that whenever you facilitate transportation between water ica. Those are our docks, built with our money. Back of the and rail you are developing the transportation interests and obligations that built them is the honor of the State. Yet the other interests of your country. But I am not going to under the provisions of this bill, and if the courts should up- be fooled, sir, into voting for a bill that, while it pretends to do hold it, the Interstate Commerce Commission could take over that, actually slaughters, knifes, destroys, and annihilates what the control and operation of those docks and ·could fix the terms little water transportation we have now and forbids it for all and conditions under which a ship or steamboat could tie up tim~ to come in the future. at them. Mr. CLEARY. May I ask where the bill does that?

Then, conneeting those dock · with every railroad that enters Mr. SANDERS of Louisiana. When did "the gentleman get New Orleans is a belt railroad, owned by no railroad company this bill? and by no steamship company; but owned, operated, and con- 1\!r. CLEARY. It has been lying around since last night. trolled by the municipality of New Orleans itself, operated But we all want to know about it. I know that it ha been by the city. Yet under this bill and the verbiage thereof the useful through my life. The connection between water and Interstate Commerce Commission, a Federal agency, could rail has been very useful. I have shipped millions of tons run that belt road and prescribe the terms and conditions in that way, and I am wondering where thi bill interferes under which it could be used. Gentlemen, a condition of that with it. kind is absolutely Ufl:thinkable. It is so repugnant to l!r. SAl\TDERS of Louisiana. I am not disputing the fact every thought of government, it is so repugnant to e\ery prin- that tlle gentleman bas done that. It is a good thing. On the ciple of this Government, that we should vest in the Interstate contrary, I agree with everything the gentleman said, but I Commerce Commission, a Federal board, the control of a pub- say to you that you got that bill yesterday, and it is utterly lie utility of the State and of the city, that it seems to me impossible, gentlemen of the committee, for any man on earth inconceivable that it should commend itself to anyone here. The to understand what that bill says and what that bili does !Jy a National Government has ·never contributed one cent to the mere reading of it. construction of this utility in the past, and never will in the Mr. CLEARY. Will not the gentleman point out in the bill future. where it does tbis damage?

Gentlemen argue that that is a power conferred by the bill . 1\Ir. SANDERS of Louisiana. I have been peakili~ along which will never be exercised. That was the argument I met that line for 35 minutes. I am sorry I haVe not ·been able to

1919. CONGRESSIONAL R.ECORD-_ ~OUSE.

f-urnisll- the gentleman with the information. I ha~e stated I when we come to settle the debt, "'yYe owe you $50,000,~~ but . what the Rich amendment would do, and I can only JUdge the you owe us $30,000,000, and we Will pay you $20,000,000. If future by. the past. I know what railroad competition has done you pass this bill, they say," You m~st pay the $50,000,000," and in the past and if the gentleman does not know it he ought to. the railroad will then be able to say, "After a while we will get Every man' who has lived on a navigable stream or a navigable together and we will figure on the $30,000,000, and then we will lake knows tha t the railroads of this country have strangled give you our note for it, and you can collect it if God is willing water competition. That is as w~ll known as another fact, and the property is solvent." Why, it does not even prescribe in which I do not propose to argue, that the sun rises in the East this bill that the amount that is owed to the Government shall ' and sets in the 'Vest. I also know that if you give the rail- be first mortgage. Oh, you throw a sop to. public opinion by · roads the power that this bill confers on them in the Rich amend- stating that it shall be a first mortgage wherever practicable. ment, on page 58, they will strangle water competition in the If I have a man's cash in my possession and he sues me for a future :;t5i they have 'strangled it in the past. settlement, I am going to say, "Yes; I owe you $600, but you

,1\Ir. CLEARY. ,If the·'gentleman will yield, I am asking these owe me $300, and we will settle on that basis, and I will plead quest ions in good faith. There are thousands and tens of thou- my compensation and set-offs." There is not a man in the sands of tons of freight being shipped from the Jersey shore Union who can not do that to-day, _and the only thing in all delivered by rail to the water . . Hundreds of thousands of tons America, the only person, real or natural, who can not take come over the Pennsylvania Railroad for transport by water. advantage of that law will be the United States ·of America if

Mr. SANDERS of Louisiana. I do not doubt it, but I shall you pass t;4is bill. _ You will pay the railroads dollar for dolhave to decline to .yield further to the gentleman. I can not lar, cash on the mail what you owe them, and you will take convince anyone that there is no such thing to-day in America their obligations for w.hat they owe you. as some water transportation. We do have some. I could not Mr. LARSEN. Where is that set out'? and would not undertake t~ convince any man in this House that Mr~ SANDERS of Louisiana. It is on page 9, beginning on

. not a ton of freight moves over the water. It does so m~ve, but line 25 and running all through page 10 and all through page there is a fraction .of an ounce that does move by water m com- 11. down to and including liue 6, on page 12; and that is all parison to what we ought to move. And if ~tis not a w~~-known those three pages mean-that the Government must pay the fact that the railroads have strangled nver competition and railroads dollar for dollar when they settle, but that the Gov- . water competition in this country of ours, then there is no fact ernment must take the railroads' obligatioits for what the ra.ll-kno,Yn to the American people. roads owe the Government.

Mr. EIMERSON·. Will the gentleman yield? Another provisiOI\ that I seriously object to is found on page l\fr. SANDERS of Louisiana. I wi~l. 65, lines 9 to 21, inclusive. That is a provision that sets up for Mr. EMERSON. I am very much mterested in water trans- the first tl~e in the history of rate legislation in America a rule

portation on the Great Lakes. Most of that transportation is of of rate malting. What does it mean? You and I form ouriron ore. How would this bill affect that? ~lves into a corporation and we build a railroad where it ought

Mr. SANDERS of Louisiana: Here is my idea about that, if never to have been. The railroad has never made a dollar and I may be permitted to say so. The contention that is ma.de. by tlie chances are that it never wlll make a dollar. We absol~tely · gentlemen who favor this Rich amendment is that no capital overturn the rule that has existed for all time, that a rate will go into boats except railroad capital, and I think that con- must be just and reasonable, and we write into the law that the tention is absolutely untenable for this reason: That if capital. Interstate Commerce Commission must make a rate so that you can make money out of boats, capital will go into boats whether and I may make money on our· railroad. No matter how disit is railroad capital or outside capital. This bill gives the honestly the road may have. been run and is run, no matter how Interstate Commerce Commissi~n the right to make rates when inefficiently the road may have been .run and is run, no matter the haul is partly over water and partly over rail. The~ ought how wastefully the road has been run and. is run, if you vote to have that power. They have that power, and this btU con- for that provision the Interstate Commerce Commission in fixtinues that power. If the transportation of iron ore on the ing its rates must not only remember that the rates must be · Lakes is profitable, then outside capitp.l will build the boats just and reasonable but they mus·t also fix a. rate that will pay a just as quickly as railroad capital will build tlie boats for that return on investment, real or fictitious. Why, you overturn the transportation, provided the outside boats are treated as squarely entire structure of rate making as it llas been known in this by the railroads as the railroads treat their own boats. That is country from the very beginning. . the only reason why it might not otherwise work. Then, to cap the column that has been erected to the memory

1\fr. O'CONNOR. Will. t~e gentleman yield? of Government control for the last two years, you bave done l\1r. SANDERS of Loms1ana. I will this. You have reached out and saved from destruction the 1\fr. O'CONNOR. How could the Interstate Commerce Com- standard return, against which I protested at the time it was

mission by taking over the administration of the docks in New passed, for I said it was too much and I voted against it. You Orleans, now managed by the dock commission, impair the port save it from the wreck of the Federal control act, and you faciliti~ of Louisiana or the revenue? breathe the breath of life into its nostrils for six mon:ths longer,

Mr. SANDERS of Louisiana. I do not know. I do not know but with this glOI·ions, shining exception: Under the Federal how they could impair them, but I do know-the. gentleman control act, if a railroad made more than its standard return, means legally-legally I do not think they could do anything that excess went into the Treasury, and if it made less than the at all in connection with impairing the revenue; but when it standard return you made it up; but under this wonderful procomes to the administration of our docks, when it comes to vision the roads that make more than the standard return dur- . stating what vessels shall land at the docks, when it comes to the · ing the six months put it into their pockets, while the road that internal administration of those docks, I contend that they must does not make the _standard return presents its voucher at the be managed by the State .of Louisiana, controlled by the State, Treasury and its loss is made up. Can you beat it? Can you and that the Interstate Commerce Commission has nothing to do justify it? Here is a railroad that makes 30 per cent. That is with tllem, and must not have anything to do ·with them. fine business. They take it and put it into tp.eir pockets. Here

Let us get to another amendment-the amendment known in is another that makes less than the standard return and . we our committee as the Merritt amendment. The only reason that say, "That is all right; that will be made up out of the pockets I call it that is not that I want to pass any encomiums upon it, of the taxpayers." W"hat I contended for in the committee and but because that is the name of its author. I was taught at tile what I contend for here is that if you are going to project this -very begtnning of my legal career that when two men met to standard return for six months after the passage of this act, adjust their accounts one could not compel the other on an there is but one fair and just way of doing it. Do not exempt open account to pay what was ow~d him without giving that the prosperous and take in only the poor. Take them all in for other the right to set up and prove offsets and compensations. It six months just as you did under the Federal control a:ct. Let that i riot . Hornbook law and Hornbook justice, nothing ever the Government get tbe advantage of what the rich roads .are was. Yet the committee bill has been amended so that that going to make, as the Government will have to make up the could be done. The subcommittee reported a bill where that deficit of the poor roads. _ would be done -in the settlement of our accounts with the rail- This bill just reeks from cover to cover with that kind of roads, but' the bill -that comes before us prevents that. The bill inconsistency. No man can discuss this bill. a.Ild do it justice in that com~s before you, stripped of its beautiful verbiage, laid the length of time that has been. assigned. _to me. I might ta~e bare of all of its technical phrases, means this, that when we the word "discuss " and strike off the first syllable, and then ;coine to a settlement with the railroads we must pay them on no man could render it justice in an hour. There is not a lin_e the mail;dollar for dollar, whatever we owe them, but the rail- in the provisions that I ha'=e discussed that is placed there fo:r roads-ah, _they belong to a consecrated class of people--that is the benefit of anybody in the world except the great transportanot true of them. Oh, no! We can not say to the railroads tion systems of America. ·· .

LVIII-526

8340 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. N OVEl\lBER 11,

· Abd if tJtis bill becomes a la'\-.V., you put the: transportatrou · lUr. MERRITT. Mr. Chair1pan and gentr-eme.n, I had nat facilftfes of: Americ::v f.orewu under the- domination of these expected at this time to· discuss the detuHS' of the· bill, and I gr-eat railraad . A..~ far· as l .am concerned, I neverr will vote_ fOl' do· not a-pect to· do so now, but as the- gentlemail! from Louisla: bill .F :mr ho.nest.Jy and sincere"l'y convinced: means that and ana: ['Mr~ S'ANDERST has done me- the honor• ta refer to section rnthing. but that~ Transportation is the greatest questi.an we, · 205 of the bill as the Merritt amendment,, if section· 205- r(? li11ve tu solve We. must solve iti; we- will solv:e it some time; · mains In the bill, as I hope and rrelieve it.. will, and Lf by any · I ant tn closiiig to say ~me word of warning,. gentlemen, chanee my name: shou-ld be connected with it, f think I s)J.all and i.L is: a solemn wordl of warning. If tllis bill-now._ mark have a title to endur-ing fame, because· I- t:hi:nk it ls the real you. ram telling you. and men wiU Uva to see what 1 ~ay come : foundaUon of constructive legislation. for· the railroads, and true--if this bill is the best that the brain of men who. betieve· that is the- foundation for business prosperity for this country. in: priYa.te ownership of l'allioads can do, then- the answer to . As I say', I do- not propose now ta discuss the details of the tfiis· bill b-y :.tn indignant and ontrageq people is' going to· be- paragraph, but simply in a broad way to· point out one or two Government O'\\illershlp. rApplause.] If tbat is the· best that fundamental errors under which the gentleman. from Louisiana yo.ucan ua. then God save the mark. seems to labor concerning that paragraph. In bTief,, the para·

1\!I COOPER. wm the gentleman yield? graph is intended simply and solely to k:eep. apart, as every lU1:. SANDERS· of Louisiana.. :twill. manufacturer and certainly every rail&oad bas to keep apart in Mr. COOPER. Does this bill' take away from the Interstate its expenditures and accounts, the capital; a-ccount and current

Counnerce Comnrlssion aey of their regulatory powers they had account. No railroad, even in prosperous times, can make its previous to the war? improvements ont of current rE>ceipt_s. and= this paragra.ph simplY

l\1r. SANDERS of Louisiana. Not a bit. takes account of that fact. So far from providing that there l\1r. COOPER. Does it not give more power? · shall be rio set-off of the debt of the roads to. the Government Mr. SAl~DERS of Louisiana. All the power in the wm'ld, as against what the Government stiU owes the· roadS, the facts

practically. are that under this provfsion there \Vin• be· a set-off of more 1\!£. COOPER. Does not the gentleman believe< that the In- than five hundred and fifty millions of money whtcb . the roads

terstate Commerce Cotnmission has been a pretty fair body and owe to tbe Government. You will see. if you will look at the hamUed the railroads pretty well in this country? bill. there is-a special provision there for set-off by· the President

lUr. SANDERS of Louisiana. Yes; I do. I think theY' have under the terms of the existing contract; and now that is all I handled them fine. I am talking about water. Its vision has· need to say for the present. because l did' not want you even never o far included' tranHportation by water. overnight to be misled by the Idea that tbere is anything unfair

:Mr. COOPER. I under~tooll the gentleman. was- tn.lking about to the Government. I wisb at this time to g1vc a few facts railroads rather than water. co~eerning Government-owned roads in other countries. which

Mr. WILSON of Louisiana. WilT my coneague yield? have been operated under substantially the same conditions llr. SANDEnS, of Louisiana. 1 wm. as would obtain in this country. About 35 years ago in ·a :Mr. WILSON of Lnnisiana. About the water p1·opositlon. famous book. which bas been a railway textbook. ever since,

As f understood the section my ceneague was diseussing, tbis Presf~ent Hadley, of Yale. stated "that a State was more likely bill gives the Interstate Commerce Commission authority to to tax industry than to_ foster it"; "'that State management is come in where· therE> is competition between railroad and water more- costly than private ma.nagPment ""; that. " the political rates. and fix a proper rat€" so s-..c:;- te protPct the water traffic- dan~er would be vet·y great ••; that ... poHtics would tend to and to, prevent it from LleinJ: driven away-that it pnts this · corrupt the railway mnnagement,. and the railway management power in. the Interstate Commerce Commission to:- investigate would tend to corrupt politics." nndl adjust the- rates and fix the- minimum or the maximum that I submit that the experience oil many countries has since must be charged. both. for rail transportation and wru:er· trap.s- verified ~fr. Hadtey's opinion. portation? The facts- I' give are all taken from testimony before either the

Mr. RANDER.S of T.ouisiana. Yes.. : Senate or Bouse committee. · Mr. WILSON of Louisiana. \Vl"l~ if the-Interstate Commerce- I confine myself first tO; the experience of F"ranee., and sec~

. Commi~ion ba,·e that power-, could they not protect the water ond to ltustrana, because both of these countries are demo-transportation fro-m being driven off?· era tic countries~ and the management Qf the· railroads is subject.

.Mr. SANDEH8 of Louisiana. l do not think so. Now, the to the same influences which would exist bere 1n the case of Interstate Commerce Commissfon~I do not attack the commis- State-owned or State-operated railways. sion; it is" a splendid body of ruen trained ahmg the lines of the ' Everyone knows the tendency of the French mind toward CleveJopment of rail transportation of this counn·y. But the ~ symmetry and order, and the development of French railways Interstate Commerce Commission has never done anything,. as 1 has proceeded~ from the very begirrnmg on a definite plan. the gentLeman from Lt-misiana well knows, to. eneoirra.ge ri-ver Originally an the . railways were privately owned,. but optrarrspertatlon, take transportation, or coast·t<rcoast transpor- erated under strict Government regnlution. and the 1·eturn on tation. and by their acts untler the provision of section 4 of the · the investment in bonds and stocks was., lf not ln terms, prac· commerce act they bnve otilize<f the> power and stretched tt l ticaiTy guaranteed by the Government. into a potential compPtftion until they ha-ve discouraged and . The rntes and management of the roadS' were-such that most driven off river transportation., of· them.,. and:,. I believe, all exce:pt one£ usunll~ earned the guar-

1\lr. WILSON oil Louisiana. Now. this· is true, is it not, anteed return. tbat in order to. save tllis wnter transportation th-ere- must be· Among. the great cof!)panies the· weakest fi:nll.Dc:tapy was the power lodgffi· somewhere to fix the- rate? , Western, a large proportion of' rts mileage· betng tn B1·ittany,

.Mr. SA.i'n)ERS of Louisiana. No; r da not think so; to the- one of the poore!"'t districts· ot· the country. lt was: necessarY. very contrary, I think when you add' tbe- power that this bill for tile Government every year to pay a rarge amount over the does for tbe first tirue to make minimum water rates you are returns from the railway. in order- to meet the. guaranteed absolutely sl~ing the death warrant of water transportation. interest and divtdends. When. lt became necessary tor the com-

Mr. WILSON of Louisiana. But if you leave- the rates there pany to increase its facilities capttaJ was not attracted, owin~ witb nobody to fix the rates, it oc('urs. to me, now, that they can to the· poor- showing of earnings-, and' finally. under the urgcontinue to d'rlve the boats off the rivers. tngs of the Socialist Party and o:f the employees. of' the road.

Mr. SANDERS of Louisiana. There is no place fn the eoun- , a btU wa - passed ln the Chamber of Deputies in 1906 for the try wbere rail' transporta-tion and water transportation can be- State to- take over the road. This was resisted' in the senate for used but what w-ater transportation has practically dL~p.- nearly two: years, but was finany passed under tile influence peared- of Monsieur Clemenceau, then prime minister.

Mr. WILSON of Louisiana. I know that. The re ults were that the operating expenses rose from Mr. SANDF..RS g.f Louisiana. Tbat is t1-ue everywhere. $28,00(},()()(} tbe last year of private operation to over $30,000,· Mr. WlL~ON of Loui"-iana. For tbe t~ason, that the- ra11:.. · OOOJ in the first yP.a.r- of Government ope:Latfon, tben. to- $35.000,-

roads have always cut under the water transportati"on. 000. then to- $89,000.000. and fiuarly, the year heforc- the war, to The CBAfR.!\lA....'i.. The time of the gentleman has expired. . $41,000,000. Meanwhile the operating revennes bn:d risen 31 Mr. JLUHLTON~ Mr. Chairm~ I yield 20' minutes to tlie per eent. but the operating expenses: had tnereased' 50 per cent.

gentleman from Connecticut [1\ir. MERRIT-T]. · The net revenue- fn the worst year of the company rule was Mr. MERRITT. Mr. Chairman, I ask rmanimous consent to• 1 never beiuw $"12' .. 750,00(), but in the four yer.u:s-afte-r the Go-vcrn-

I'eVise and extend. my remarks. ment had taken co-ntrol it felJ to sti~htly over- $5.000,000~ and The CHAfR!\.fAN. The gentleman from Connecticut a.~ks the operatl.-ng ratio rose from t)T per- ceut to 85 pe· cent.

unanimous con~ent to revise· and extend his remarks. Is· there. Du:ting the· last 10 yearR" of company management the Statq pbjection ~ [After a pause.] The Chair hears nQn~ had ta PRY an average of just. under $3,000,000 r.t ;real"' tu meet

1919. CONGRESSIONAL ' REOORD~ROUSE. 834l.

it liability under the guaranty, an<.l lluring the tp.~·ee years after the transfer it bad to fin.d increasing amounts each year, until in 1913, the year · before the . war, the · deficit wns just under $15,000,000, about five time as much. .

Nor i there any comfort to be gained with the suggestion that although · the expenses to tile country were greater the seni e was better, for, as a matter of fact, the sernce became absolutely demoralized. The time of the eXI.wess trains was slowed down, while at tbe same time tbe number of accidents and (lnmage :;;nit increased so that fTorn an a\erage of about • 500,000 a year the State had to pay about $2,00~,000 a year. The ._ en'ice was ·o demoralized in the RubuTb that employers insi.., ted that their employee · who had to come to work in the cit:r must liYe in some other section.

The French economist, 1\I. Leroy-Beaulien, gin>· the reasons for this deplorable situation, as follows:

In the first place it is the abuse of formalism and I'ed tape, with all the delays which follow and whir.h arc directly in conflict with commercial ne<'d.s. In the second place it is the lack of stability. The director and all the chiefs of the sen-ice change at the will of the ministers, whilst in the private companies the higher personnel is maintained a long time, fulfilling the same functions. It is next the political influ('nce which enten into the choice and advancement of the personnel. It is, lastly, the lack of discipline which also results from the political influence at work. From the electoral point of view, the lower staff, being much more nnmerou.c;, will always have much more power than tile superior staff. It is always on the sicle of the former that many deputies will be systematically ranged. Above all, it is impossible to be at once controller and controlled. If one of thE' grPat PrPnch companies under private management renders poor service, public opinion is not slow to move the public power, and as this has the m•ans to bring pressure indirectly but in many ways upon .the companies they arc led to reform. On the contrary, when complaints are made a~;ains t the State itself the administration, ir-responsible, does not listen. Rather, it seems indignant that particular indlrtduals or even large associations should dare to find that all is not perfect. "I have not seen . without a certain astonishment," said the minister of public works in the chamber, "the chamber of commerce criticize the actions of the State in its (their) reports upon the railways." The same minister bas dismissed an employee from his office who was at the bead of a section of a passenger line which emitted protestation against the delay. on the western State service in the Paris suburbs. When the minister was reproached in the senate, he declared himself ready to do the same again. One may see how dangerous to the liberty of citizens the extension of the industrial r~gimc of the State would be, where the number of functionarie would be indefinitely multiplied ancl where they would no longer have the right to complain.

He then gi\es figures !IS to the tremendous increase in the personnel, the fact that in all the Government bureaus it takes from two to tlu·ee times as many people to do the same work as tmder private management, and that the serviae is made cxpen-ive and demoralized by excessi\e Go\ernment red tape. As u

supreme example, he quotes from the letter of n station mnster, ns follows:

In the time of the Western Co. we statlon masters hatl orders to usc the rolling stock as quickly as possible a.nd to send to a .~iven station aU that we did not ·ourselves require. Under the State au is changed. Every station master is forbidden to load any wagon without the orders of the distribution bureau of the district. This bureau is, as is well !mown, a new creation, Rpecially designed for the purpose of finding situations for so many more bureaucrats. Recently having received two wagons loaded with horses, accompanied by an order to send theRe wagons to Caen after they were unloaded, I thought to do well by loading in these two wagons 200 sacks of grain, which had been waiting in the sheds for several days to go to Caen. But, alas, I did not know the bureau of rtistribution. The next day I saw my two wagons return, and I recei>ed at the same time an order to unload them. I was reproved into til(' bargain for excess of zeal. I had to obey the order. That evening I sent the wagons empty to Caen. Next day I recei>ed two other~ , also empty, in which to load the grain.

I think it does not need any great strain on anyone' · imagination to believe that substantially similar results might happen in this good country of ours.

Finally 1\I. Leroy-Beaulieu says that the results of this Western Railroad of France have provoked a very lively movement not only against the repurchase of the raihYays but against all extension of State industry.

In Australia the railways were, in general, State owned from the beginning, due largely to the fact that in the earl:v days the great business opportunities in Australia in the way of ruining, sheep culture, and so forth, offered such tremendous opporttmities for profit that the ordinary profit on railway operation did not attract private capital. Accordingly, the different Australian Stntes constructed and lla\e always managed their own railways.

I can not take time to go into · details concerning these Australian railways, but as to whether they possess any ad\antage either by way of service or economy in the senice of the people, I quote the following:

basis, and a keu whether it was possible that a milway man accus·tomed to -Ainerican methods failed to keep statistical records in this form. The answer was, in effect, as ·follows: " I have the ton-mileage figur(' ·. I dare not publish them. If I did . publish them, they would show a t on-mile mte so excessive, as compared with other countries similarlv situated, where· the traffic is mainly in agricultural products carried 'long distances. that public opinion would enforce a sweeping reduction in raies and bankrupt the undertaking." It may be added, as proving that the chief commissioner in question had good reason for desiriu.g to avoid a comparison, that two-New South Wales and South Au~tralla--out of tile seven Australa ian State railway systems clo publish ton-mileage stati iics. 'l.'hey show ton-mile earnings of 2.20 cents and 2.12 cent>;, respectively. The corresponding figures for the private railways of Canada is 0.75 cent, and for the private railways o.f the Unit('d States 0.738 C('nt.

Mr. Acworth, the great English expert, for purposes of serrtce compares :Kew South Wales with Texas, the type of the country being substantially the same, although Texas has a much greater population. He finds that the freight rate per ton-mile is more than double in New South Wales what it was in Texas in 191G, and state · that the pri-vate railways of Texas perform for the Texas public nearly four times as much work as the railways of New South Wales perform for the public of that State. And he finds further that if the Texas railways had been operated us expensively as the New South Wales railways they would have bad no net revenues at all.

Tile opei·ation of the Australian railways has been a source of infinite perplexity to the country and Go\ernments invol\ed.

They have gone through all the phases of direct Government operation through an executiYe minister, and, when that proved unsatisfactory they tried operation by commission, and 1\Ir. Acworth states that the last year he was in Victoria they were looking about to make their fifth change.

And in Victoria, in the effort to prevent constant political pressure and interference, they have passed an act, which I belie\e is till in existence, which provides substantially as fol-~ws: ·

That if anyuouy "employed in the public service, either in the railway sen-ice, the pollee service, or the State rivers and water-supply department. shall, either directly or indirectly, take an.y part whatsoever in or in r~la.tion to election of members to the legiSlative council or the legislative assembly, or directly or indirectly in any way take part in the political affairs of the State of Victoria otherwise than by 1·ecordin~ a vote at a parliamentary election," he shall be dismissed, etc. ; and " no pei·~on or class of persons so employed shall, directly or indirectly, u e or attempt to use any influence in respect to any matter affecting the r('muneration or position in the public service of either himself or any other person," and the penalty for that is that "such person may be fined in a sum not exceeding £10, and may be reduced in class:. subdivision, grade, or status, and salary, or he may be dismissed or his services may be dispensed · with, provided that such person shall not be dismissed or have his services dispensed with for any contraventlon of this section without the consent of the governor in council."

The uniform result of all GoYernment ownership of railroads has been to deaden initiative ~nd to repress invention. 1\Ir. Acworth states that it would be difficult to point out a single important invention or improvement the introduction of which the world owes to a State railway, and I think that what he says ab.out the public management of railways will strike a responsive chord in the breasts of many Members of this House who haYe to deal with Government departments:

The railway management is essentially a commercial business. You want all the commercial qualities of planning ahead and being ready to take up any new technical improvement, and desire to cut down expenses at any point, and things of that kind. And he has to keep his work going. It is quite clear that you do not get as prompt service from public officials. I do not know what it is in this country, but it is a matter of regular knowledge in England that if one writes to a Government department it takes a very long time to get an answer; it takes a week to get an acknowledgment and two or three weeks often to get any real answer. It you write to a railroad company,- you get an acknowledgment by return of post and an answer in two or three days. There is no question as between public service, where you can compare them in England, and pri-.ate service. There is no question about the commercial alacrity of one as compared to the other.

And so I submit that the few instances and figures which I haYe giYen abo\e, and which may be easily multiplied and elaborated, demonstrate the thesis set forth by President Hadley which I quoted at the beginning.

If the railroad business is a commercial business, it must to be efficient be milnaged on commercial lines and with commercial incentives to efficiency and initiative and with proper rewards· therefor. It must not be subject to political influence either as to personnel or management or rates.

Another propo ition for the conduct of the railroads woul<l need no attention except that by persistent propaganda through certain organizations, who would have a direct interest in and benefit from the plan, it seems to be attracting mm;e or less

Some years ago a distinguished railway man went from America to attention. · assume the post of chief commissioner-in other words, president-of one of the most important Australian state systems. After he had been And owing to the fatal facility with which many. cla s es of in charge .for a year or two he sent to a railway friend at home starts- people are attracted by pleasant sounding words, and the fatal tics showmg the pnprovements and economies effected ~nder his man- habit of not takino- pains to find out what plan such words really agement- The friend, in acknowledging the receipt, powted out that ~ · f bl , ('f ·d 1 the figures furnished did not include the ton-miles of traffic and there- I cover, the so-called Plumb plan seems to be a\ora y I e~ai el fore neither receipts· nor cost couJd uc worked out on a ton-mileage ·by certain well-meaning people.

'8342 OONGRESSIQN~A:L RECORD-HOUSE. N OVElVIBER 11'

It may be wo1·th wbile, ther.efore, to devote a very ff!.w minutes l!r • .Alorton, of the Railway Stati-on Agents, points -out and to a bt·oad analysis of the plan and to show by fit,conres where gives the xeru;ons for .showing that there would be :tremendous tbe plan ovou1d lana the cou.ntty. in_ternal politics in the J:ailway <Organizations ta elect direetors

1 hope that many !embers of the House -will take the trouble and tba t the result of this politics would not be to elect tru;; to l'ead from page 2045. in the bearings before the Interstate best brains, but tlwse ·w.ho would be most subservient to the and Foreign Commerce Committee, the testimony of Mr. Earl H. · electors. I can not do better than to oouclude this short review .Morton. who is president of the Order of Railway Station of the Plumb plan by .quoting the conclusion of Mr. Morton's .Agents, and who state that he giv~ his testimony so ~t the te timony on thi ubject: rommittee may not think th~t all ralll'oad employees believe 1n The ·unavoidable conclusion 1s that the directors elected by the officers GoYernment ownerRhi,p of railroad, . nnd employees would not neees arily be fit men to serve as 1llrectors,

The avowed object of the Plumb plan, as stated by its author but tllat, an the :contrary, the chanef'i; are many to one that they would . • . . . . f tb . ' be. unfit men for .this most Important work. The du·ectors selected in 1 "pubhc owner hlp and democracy m the contiol -o e rml- ib1s way would, m turn. s lect the men who would have dlrect charge roads." · of the oper~ti~n of the railroads. Since the direetors would be anxious

This statement is correet so far as public owner bi1J is cou- to keep then· JObs, they ~ould be pretty sure Jn self'cting the men who . . . were to operate the railroads ·to appoint men who w.onld .u e their

cerned, becau e the plan 1s for the United States to buy every . lnftuen.ce to h.etp reelect the dir£>ctors. Since the w.ages and salaries rn.Uroad in the country. T11e democracy of the pian come in,, of tbe officers and employees would not d('pend at aU upon tow cmh . . 'er solely irum the faet that the people of the whole ciPntly they did their work-becaus.e the wages and salari<'s would be

owe' ~ . i hr . ld fixed by the board .of directors . wh1ch the officers o.nd employees had country Will foot the bills, and then. n eurr nt P ase, wou S{'lectt>d-there would be no in<!f'ntive to appoint men to the chief A• get ()ff ".and hand over the management of this 18,()((),000,000 operating positions on the ruilroads t?eeause -of their fU:ness ~r tbeir

20 000 000 000 of prQ~rty to 15 men two-third of the 15 jobs. . Bnt l1 the .abl~ men ln the .railroad -service wer~ not gtven the .or ~ • .a.~' • • most unportnnt po ltron in tb.e rvwe, they would lnenubty leave the being e·tected by the employees of the ratlroads. who would then railroad business, thus depriving it -of its brains. It is nPc :1ry, oontr.ol thls $].8,000f000,000 to -0.000,000,000 of property, would howev T, to have ~n of experien~ :anq to dye them po:-1tions of the control their own wag.es and ·salaries, would profit if there was ~~~;~~ responsibility and author1t;y it effi.c:tent operation is to be

nny profit. w-hile .all the los would ·b.e borne by the taxpayers. ' The Plumb plan is the best pl8ll which bas :ever been devi.sPd to But orse than the financial side of the matter it:~ that these drive th.e brains ont of th~ Tailr{)ftd imsin(l'SB, to .completely . destroy

-:s:::: 11 h"'Ye ·m· their controt the entire buffiness strneture the efficlency of opPratlon, to cause a tn>mendous tncreas~> a the.~· in -llll men won<; " . pas enger and t'relght t·ates or 1n the deficit the public would have to -nf the United States. whieh depends on the operation o.f the pay, nnd t.o wreck tbe raUroad system of tb(' Unltf'd States physically .railroa{l nnd financially~ Tt -is o preposti:!rous in ~vet·y respect that it would

rnh · t -+ .11""I'~ 1·n -4ln· ·or of th~ plan are pe"h.nns on not merit sed-ous discussion but. fo? tbe fact that tb(' so-callerl Plumb ~ e argun1en s Pt.U L'-' lll J..U • ~ Plan League eems to be ecurmg tlle upport of larJ;,"i? numbers of

their face nllurin~. in that they propo e to furm .. '5b rrulw.ay rllilroail employ es wbo have not c~lly tnformro tb~>msPives as to s Mice at co t. nut we ha'\"e · een that in Governrneut-oper- what the plan is and n-s to the way in which it would aetna1ly work.

ted l'On<l thi co tis many times that under private operation, row, g-entlemen, I have ref"CITed to the e mattPrs. not be-and under the Plumb plan I see no r{>.ason to doubt that the co t cause I tllink they nre live questions, as I Jrnmv there is not a would be even gr ater than under straight Government opera- handfnl of men in this House who would favo-r either Gov-erntion. It is claimed that there would be incenth·es to efficiency, ment ownership or tbe PJmnb plan, or nything like it; but I because under the plan a certain -portion .of the profits would go I'efer to them to show that any reasonable and .gen rous treatto the employ-eesA ment of the railroads of tlli country. to put them quar·ely on

Let us examine thi. -clnim in the light of actual figures. Sup- their feet ru1d start them off umier private <Ownership, o that l)Ose the em'Ploy should make tlemands on the directors .o-f they CllD live. would be very much more economical than any the railroad , w·hen operating under the Plumb plan, for an other plan, because if you do not put the railroads into the advance of 25 per cent in wages. As two-thirds of the clirectors bands of their ewners in a good, sound condition to ~art with, are elected by the employees, tbe chances are that they would and with a good, soun-d. rate system to go on ;vith you will

.et it. Then a m-.:m with a wage of $2,000 would get .an in- certainly bring them into bankruptcy. And, if you do, you are crease of .$500, wbether the road made any ,p-rofit or not. Sup- bound to get Government ownership, ::md the consequent mountpose, boweYer. h waited~ under the tl1eory of tbe Plumb :plan, ing costs, mounting inefficiency, and political corrupti{)n. for 'his dividend from profits. Even under the impo sible sup- Now, I do not mean to go into details in this direction, bepositit:m that the road would make $500.000,000 clear profit in cause the masterly speech of our chairman thi morning has a ~ear, if there were 2,000.{)()() empl-oyees, the share of the given you_ wlk'lt the comm'lttee thinks is the p1·oper -mt>tboil of .$2,000 employ would be 125. The question then is whether producing the re~mlts to which I allude. But when you come a sure $500 raise ()f wages or a possible, but doubtfuL $125 at to consider the bill and some l(}f the provisions wbieh may be the end of:a year of waiting would have the greatest attraction. aid by some here to be too faVOJ"able t-o the roads, just bear In {Jtber worcls, would it be easier to have the directors vote in mind, if you please, the conditi-ons. an increase of wages and be easy-going and get $500 or to be The conditions are that these roads. not by their own de ire indu 'U·ious and efficient for a whole year for a possible $125 lmt by -the exigency of war and by the ope-ration of law, were which might not materialize? taken over by the United Stat s and b.ave been run by the

As a matter of fact, the speciousness of t his argument for United States for about two years. I do not y this by way of efficiency needs no further statement than that the operating criticism, but the fact is that the operation of the railroad by expenses ·at the present time are five tim the capital charge. tlle United States has produced a great defictt. There is a The Plumb plan advocates claim that if the Government buys continuing deficit to-day. The personnel of the roads has l>een the railroads th-e capital eharge would be reduced, but if it distmbed. The property of the 1·oads, in the hape of cars, is were reduced as much as they daim, which is not possible, aU over the United States, and it will take a large amount of tlwre could be no appreciable effect on rates unle s the operat- time and a great amount of expen e for eaeb road to o-et its 1ng expenses :were reduced, and the probability of that when the property together, to get Its p~·sonnel together, and to go on IDPD fix their own alru·ies can easily be understood. The running as a separate entity. PJornb-plan .advocates stop at no claim, however preposterous, That is the reason why the committee ha n.Ilowet:l tllis pe.riod stating, as they do, th.at under the Plumb plan it would be pos- of six months under the present guaranty, so that tbe roads sible to rt>duce pa nger rates to 1! cents per mile and freight may get new rates before the commission, and get their busi· rates 40 per cent. ness started under these new 1·ates, so that wben the guaranty Now~ on the basis of present traffic a rednctlon of passen~er ends they may be on their own feet and may go -on in a elf

rates to H cents per mile would reduce passenger erumngs supporting way. 640~000.000 a yt>ar, and a reduC:'tion of 40 per cent would re- NO\v, gentlemen, something bas been .aid here about the Jack

duce frei~ht earnings 1,800;000,000 a -year, making a total re- of credit of the roads. I do not mean to blame anyone. if there duetion in -eru·nings of 2,440,000_.000 a year. After this reduc- is blame about it, but I do not believe there ls any man who is tion, on the present basis. tbe earnings !.eft to the railroads familiar with finance in any way who will say that before the after present operating expenses would only be about 2.600~- war the credit of the roads hn.cl not practi~Hy disappeared. 000,000 a year, but tbe present operating expenses are $4,200,- Even the most pro perous {)f them had to rruse money in the 000,000, so that after these r-eductions the earnings of the roads most onerous way and at a great expense. I submit to you, would be 1,600.000,000 l+> s than enough to pay operating ex- gentlemen, that this is not wholly a matter of stat· tics. The peru es .and taxes. If you add to this the money necessary to Interstate Commerce Commis ion produt'es figures to show pay intere t upon the bonos i sued to buy the railroads, whieb that un-der their management the ·eceipts of the .roads were would be $900,000.000, you would produce an annual deficit of better than they ha(] been befo.re. I think those fih"tll'es, while $-2.500,000,000 a lear, which the public would have to pay in accurate rn a way, do not state the whole story. Birt, in· peetaxes. This is wbere the public ownership of the railroads and tiv-e of that-and this is what I think is the important thing their operation under the Plumb plan would leave the country, for us to conm.d.eJ~-the matter of eonfulencc is not n matter 111· nnd there is no possible escape from these figures. · together .of statistics, perhaps not primal·ily of statisti , but

I

1919.

what the investing public of this country see and what the general public see is that the great transportation system of this country is under the iron rule of an Interstate Commerce Commission. They saw, in the Adamson. bill, the United States Congress passing a law fixing the wages and fixing the expense under which the roads must operate.

They see this e.x:Penso kept on by this legislation. They see the Interstate Commerce Commission ha'\"ing control .over their rates, so that unlike the ordinary merchant whose costs run up and who can put up his prices at once, the railroads can not promptly advance the price of their only commodity, which is transportation, and we ::tll agree that it should not be done without supervision. But the public sees the situation. They know that politics "·orks in devious ways sometimes, and that people and Congresses change from time to time, and they do not khow to what law their investments may be subjected, and nothing is so wary as capital, whether

' iQ the hands of the large or small investor. It seems to me that our job . now is to endeav01· to help this

psychological situation, to legislate so that the roads may retain enough cash to go on with, and after they get started provide a proper rate structure which alone will enable them to give the public adequate service. I do not believe that there is any danger of any road being too prosperou . Gentlemen will talk about some roads paying large dividends a.Ild being very prosperous, and that these are the roads represented by

·the railway executiYes. But, gentlemen, those are the roads ·that carried over 90 per cent of all the ton-mileage of this country. They are the road that do need now our fostering care. I do not believe that any man who had a large farm would say that he must neglect the good part of his farm on which his crops depend and cultivate solely the bad part. The short-line roads need our care and the bill aids them much, but the great roads on which the great transportation system of this country depends need our attention most; and I hope when this bill is pas edit will be passed just as it is, and you gentlemen will feel and know that you have done to this country a great service, and have passed a great constructive piece of legislation, not primarily for the benefit of the roads but for all the people of the United States.

1\Ir. TILSON. 1\Ir. Chairman, will my colleague yield? 1.1r. MERRITT . . Y s. 1\Ir. TILSON. The gentleman from Louisiana [Mr. Sru.---mERs]

referred to section 205 and made an implication that the Government stood to lose in the matter of accountitlg between the Government and the railroads. If the plan proposed in section 205 is adopted in the bill, is there any real danger that the Government will stand to lose anything by reason of the proposed method of settlement?

Mr. MERRITT. On the contrary, I think the Government will gain, because I think ·that this legislation is necessary to set the roads up; and, with the rule of rate making provided by the bill, the roads can go on and pay the Goyernment and pay everybody else. [Applause.] . · The CHAIRMAN. The time of the gentleman from Connec1i

cu t has expired. Mr. HAI\fiLTON. !\Ir. Chairman, I yield 20 minutes to the

gentleman from Indiana [Mr. SANDERS]. The CHAIRl\IAN. The gentlcm:in from Indiana is recognized

for 20 minutes. 1\fr. SANDERS of Indiana. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of

the committee, I think tllis is the most important piece of legislation that has been before the Congress of the United States since it had up the consideration of the war resolution. We are entering now into the period of 1·econstruction, and this is one of the first great reconstruction measures. We had rich prairies and rich valleys waiting to be cultivated when the Pilgrims landed, but they were not c-ultivated until railroads came into use and the lines of railroads began to pierce those great areas, and as those railroad lines folmd their way across the prairies immediately villages were found all along the railway lines and the great farms began to be cultivated.

.Just as England, because of her geographical location and her imperialistic government, is a great maritime nation, just so the Republic of the United States, because of its vast contiguous

I territory, because of its diversified industries and the necessity ; for a transportation system, is a great transportation country. ' We have one-third of the railroads of the entire world. We give the best railroad rates and we give absolutely the best service of

: any transportation system in all this wide world, and it has an . been built up and developed by private initiative, by private capital, by prtvate ingenuity, and private genius. And so far as I am concerned, as we enter into this reconstruction period, I .want to do what is necessary to retain this great transportation system which has made us the mighty people that we are, and I

. 8343 do not want tO adopt a policy tllat might lead to the destruction of its efficiency. · [Applause.) .

When we met in committee the1~e were many plans proposed to us. The Plumb plan has been discussed. I do not want to re~:msh that plan; but, gentlemen, we ought' not to pass lightly over a proposition which is seriously made to us, backed up. by the consid~rable propaganda that is behind the Plumb plan, without letting the country lmow just 'Yhat it means. It is not Government owriership. It proposes by some method, which I think, by the wny, is unconstitutional, to take $18,000,000,000 worth or property, paying part of it by Government money, out of the hand · ·of cer tain individuals and to put that property and it · value into the hand of other individuals without payment on the part of the indhiduals into who e bands it passes. Under the plan by which tllese railroads are to go to this c-orporation· for a period 'of a hun<lre<l years the · employe~ and the Government are to have equally divided between them any profits that arc to be made, and the profits that arc to be made are the only value which the property has. The United States Government is not t~ get any taxes, and all the amount that it could possibly get through that plan would not amount to what it gets in taxation now, so that the beneficial intere t of all that $18,000,000,()(){) worth of pxoperty is to be take-n and turned oYer to somebody e~. .

That is riot Government owner ·hip; that i the soviet centro! of industry. ·

1\Ir. 1\!ADDEN. l\lr. 'hairnran, will the gentleman yield. there?

'The CHAIRMAN: Does the gentleman from Indiana yield to the gentleman from Illinois?

Mr. SANDERS of Indiana. Yes. Mr. MADDEN. That plan also provided that if there were

any losnes the Government of the United States should pay them? l\fr. SANDERS of Indiana. The Government of the United

States, of course, would have to pay them. I want at this point to read a telegram and letter in which

I have briefly given my reasons for opposing the Plumb plan:

Bon. E-rEr.ETT SANDERS, Washington, D. a.:

IKDIA:SAPOLIS, I:-.n., Auuust 26, ~919.

District No. 72, International Association of 1\Iachinists, ln convention assembled, direct me to urge you to support the Plumb plan lor tho control and management of the railroads.

GEO. W. GREJiiNLEAF, Secretary.

llOUSE OF REPRESm\TATIVES UNI'I'JID STATES, . Was11ington., D. a., August 30, 1919.

Mr . . GEORGJ.l W. GREENLEAF, . Sccreta-r~J District No. r;·2,

Ittternational Assoc-iation of Macli-i1~ists, India-napolis, Ind.

DEAn Sm: Your telegram, as secretary of District No. 72. International Association of Machinists, relative to the Sims bill, embracing the Plumb plan of nationalization of railroads, reached me Ln due course, but I have not replied because the proponents of the bill had not completed their arguments in its behalf. I want to express my appreciation of your courteous telegram, for it is quite helpful to receive the views of one who bas given the subject some st udy. In Its essentials the Plumb plan is as follows :

All of the railroad properties of the country, estimated at $12,000,-000.000 to $18,000,000,000, are transferred for a period of 100 years from the ownership of the present holders to a corporation known ns tho National Railways Operating Corporation. Those of the present owners who can not be legally squeezed out are to be paid Ln cash, which is to b~ raised by means of bonds of the Government. The corporation is to be controUed n.nd managed by a boartl of 15 directors, 10 elected by the classified and official employees and 5 appointed by the President of the Un1ted States. The operating income is to be applied toward the payment of the usual railroad operating expenses, including amortization and interes t on the bonds. The net surplus, If any, shall remain, to be equaUy diYided between the Government and the employees.

I might say, in passing, that the railroads and the bonds are to be entirely free from taxation, and that one-half of any amount of remaining profits will not amount in one year to as much a the Government is now receiving by way of taxation, and h ence the Government will not receive as much as it is now receiving. It is expec ted that the lease will be renewed ad infinitum.

The mere statement of the substance of t he l!ill is a condemnat.:on of it. Congress may have the power by eminent uomain to take the railroad properties over for the benefit of the Government, but certainly there can be no fower by a roundabout way to t ransfer the property from one group o indJviduals to another group. This is not government ownership but the Russian soviet plan with slight variations. Of course the nationalization of railroads would merely be the opening wedge. Street railway , coal mines, steel mills, automobile factories, lumber mill~ leather factories~ clay plants, and en'ry large industry would have to fOllow as a natural law of economics. In fact, the proponents of this measure recoiDID,ended that this nationalization scheme be used as to other like industries whenever the employees desire.

The boards to determine the hours of labor and the a mount of wages and all other kindred questions will be composed entirely of employees, one-half representing official employees and one-half representing classified employees. There is no appeal therefrom except when there is no majority decl.sion.

There is no power in Cong1·ess under the Constitution to enact such legislation. If we had the power and should exercise it, the whole structure o1 the Government would fall. If $15,000,000,000 in new Government bonds are to be thrown on the market cyery Liberty bond

8344 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. N <n J~~lBER 11,

would be r~duced at once in value, and tbe holders would lose in the decreased value a billion dollars. l::lucb an increase in credits would cause an immediate inflation; the .cost of living . would shoot upward with accelerating spf'ed, and hunger, wantb and untold suffering would follow. . With th~:' absolute pow('r in the ands of Pmployees to raise their own wages at will thP cycle of high wages · would immediately start. The employl:'es of the diffe~:ent nationalized industries would race with each other in raising wages, a useless procl:'ss, for the cost of living would always be a neck ahead. The whole Nation, with all its intricate social and economic relations, would .become "janglPd and out of tune" and chaos would rPign supreme. I haven't the slightest doubt that a repetition of the Russian disaster would hr> upon us within 18 months, and the employees of the nationalized mdustries would, of course, bP included in the mass of suffering and confused humanity.

The railroad problem lS a complex and difficult one, and the rights anfl intf>I·est of the splendid Amf'rican manhuod represented by the employees constitute a primP essrntial in the solution. A constructive plan must bt- deveJopPd. WI:' must perfect such plan upon recognized principll:'s of equity and justice, carefully analyzing the practical effect of the legislation not only upon the hundrl:'d millions of the American pcopll:' but also its effl:'ct upon the structure of the government of the great Republic under which we live.

Very sincerely, yours, EVERETT SANDERS. 1\lr. Chairman, I do not want to unuuly criticize Mr. Plumb.

I have the greatest respect and admiration for the hundreds of t110usands of loyal, efficient railroau employees in this country. Mr. Plumb was e~ployed to represent them. There was put into operation what is called "the Plumb Plan League/' This league ·was organized, according to Mr. Plumb (hearings, p. 677), about July 1, 1919. It provided for two classes of membership. One class, consistin·g of local lodges and organizations, who pay $10 per year for their membership. - The other class is composed of those who have indlvidual memberships of $1 each. 1\fr. Plumb in his testimony said that there was probably at that time, August, 1919, an income of between $125,000 and ~1u0.000 per annum. and that he hoped to reach $500.000 per year. The funds so raised, largely from the railroad men of ihe country, were used to finance his propaganda in favor of the Plumb plan.

I think it fair to assert that not 1 employee in 500 had ever thoroughly read the bill introduced embracing this plan. I do not believe that any fair-minded railroad employee who carefully read the bill and appreciated its economic effect would favor it. I have been personaily told by different railroad employees that they were not in favor of the p1an.

·There was held out as an inducement to the employees that (:me-half of the profits remaining after payment of the operating

·expenses should be divided among the employees. This was used as a persuasive argument to enlist their suppm.·t. Yet in the testimony Mr. Plumb urged, in order to induce public support, the proposition that ·if his plan were inaugurated railroad trans· portation could be carried at cost with no profit.

The great difficulty of the Plumb plan js tlle difficulty which attaches to any plan by which millions of employees are engaged in an occupation the benefits of which from a wage standpoint are immediately dependent upon governmental policies. To illustrate what I mean, this plan would cDnvey to a corporation for a period of 100 years all the railroad properties of the country . . It provides, however, that the employees are to have onehalf the profits; by action of Congress that one-half of the profits could be changed to three-fourths or nine-tenths. Revenue could ·be increased from t11e shipping puLlic and wages of employees could be equally increased, all dependent upon legis-

, lation pas E>d by Congress. On the other band, it is possible for wa~es to be reduced if under the Plumb plan revenues were cut down or other steps taken which would bring about that result. The effect in sum total of this scheme 'vould be to make every railroad employee determine any action he might take as n vote1· upon the single standard and from the single viewpoint of his own individual interest.

This gre:;~.t Republic of ours has endured longer than any other Uepublic on the face of the earth. Those of us who found the pre, ·ent Government here, who found our institutions as they are, are very likely to consider our present Government with its institutions a thing to be had in perpetuity, without reference to the course the individual citizen may pursue. It must be remembered that this is a Government by the consent of the governed. The high state of governmental · efficiency, which bas m:-~de Ute Republic endure for almost one and one-half centuries, did not merely happen, -but was brought aOO'ut because of the bigh character of the individual citizen, who gave his mite as one of the go-vernell, who shaped the destinies of the Nation.

·while he has done this frequently · with an · eye to his individual intere. t, nevertheless his connection with other activities anu the great diversity of his interests has made that individual citizen for these many deca<les add his part in the represe_ntative government in .an unselfish and public spirited wai. But put before the employee who -is receiving $1.200 per year the proposition that by concerted action his salary may be brought-up t!> $1,500 per year, and. though he may have decided 'de"· on mnny other economic questions involyed in tt political

campaign, which is the forum for uetermining the policy of the Government, yet no one will say that the average employee will not shape his course with the viewpoint nlone of the nrlvauce-ment of such interests. . - ..

An illustration of thi N is found in the hear1ogs on the rail. road question. 1\Ir. Plumb, in his zeal for Ius cau e, tol<l the ·committee over and ove1· again that · if the plan \Yere not adopted the hundreds of thousands of employees intere. ted would center their efforts in electing a Congre s that would allopt those plans, and there is not one time in all the testimony of the advocates of this plan in which it ever occurred to any of the witnesses that these employees had _any other intere. t in the great Government which has brought to t11em their happiness and prosperity. l\lr. Plumb even went to the point of declaring that unless Congre s ncted ln accordance with his desires that there would likely be a revolution. It is true in the hearings, after he was pressed about tl1e matter he hedgctl and modified· his language so as to "give hlm a means of e, cap<'. Yet, nevertheless, everyone who was present and heard him testify Imows _that what he meant to convey to our committee was that there was danger of an act-ual revolution in the event we did not adopt the Plumb plan. I ·quote the following colloquy between myself and Mr. Plumb to illustrate my point anti · hope that you will note the different positions 1\Ir. Plumb tool' on the matter, and. yet I believe that no one hearing this te timony will doubt the meaning he intenued to convey:

1\It•. SANDERS of Indiana. You think that the Plumb plan · is desirable for the railroad industry, and that the time is now opportune for the adoption of that plun with reference to the railroad industry?

l\Ir. PLUMB. I- do. It is desirable, and I believe the time has come when it should be presented to the public for their considera tiou because I believe it m<'ets the demands of this occasion. •

Mr. SANDERS of Indiana . .And then, ln your personal opinion, that same plan is desh·a ble for the coal Industry?

Mr. PLUMB. There are many difficulties In the coal Industry that distinguish that industry from this, that would make It mucb more difficult of application. I have not submitted and worked out a wuv in which it can bl> worked out and applied. All I can say is that I believ~ the principles of democracy in lndustr~, and perhaps Government ownership should be applied t<? the mimng Industry, If those employ<'d in the mdustry and the public want it so applied ; but the machinery for working lt -out I can not possibly suggest bow 1t should be done, because the nature of private ri~bts in mines are o vastly different from thP rights which ha>o been granted to corporations owning the public highways.

Mr. SA ·nERs of Indiana. Wou}(] you subscribe to this doctrine , that all forests, mines, and watPrways having national Importance, shouhl be dl:'clarl:'d national propPrties?

Mr. PLUMB. I subscribe to that doctrine personally, and I should like to see it subscribed to by all the people of the Uniteu States.

Mr. SANDERS of Indiana. Have yon evl:'r read the Russian ~oviet <'onstitution?

Mr. PLUMB. I have not. Mr. SA DERS of Indiana. That quotation that I just gave you is an

extract from the Russian soviet constitution, takPn from a photoJ?raphir. cop,v, whirh was procured by the State Departruent. Do you not think that the Plumb plan, rather than being a Government ownership plan , . is a soviet plan?

Mr. PLUMB. I do not know what a soviet plan is. I know what the popular misconception, or conception, of it may be, but I do not know whnt it is.

l\Ir. SANDERS of Inrliana. What is the popular misconception of it? Mr. PLUMB. Well, as it is burled about in tbe newspapers, it R<'em "

to me the idPa is that some workmPn get togPther and go out and grab some p1·opprty and divifle it up between themsel~es.

Mr. SANDERS of Incliana. And you think that is a misconception? :Yr. PLUMn. It must be. ~fr. RumEJliS of Indiana. If ihat is a misconception, what i. your

.:.tandard of a proper concl:'ptiou ·1 l\1r. PLr:o.ui. I would have to lwxe information on that. I oo not

know. Mr. SAXDEn.s or Indiana. It is pretty difficult to tell what is n mis

conc<>ptlon unless you know what the proper conception Is. Mr. PLPMB. Unless you knew human nature. It is inconceivable to

me that any society could believe in ~he right of a group-any Rociety that was . anP-<:OuJd beli.-ve in thf' right of a group to go out and seiz£> property and divide it up between themselves without regard to law. I can not conceive that there are people of any civilization that have such a belief.

Mr. SANDERS of Indiana. Referring tor a moment to your testimony of yesterday. In response to intPrrogatoriPs propotmded hy Mr. BARKLEY, you f'_xplainPd in yocr testimony about a speech you made at St. Louis. Wbat was the approximate date o! that Rpel:'ch? l\:ly rl:'collection is you said it was about two weeks ago.

l\:lr. PLUMB. I am trying to get the l:'xa~t tlate. I think it wa R the 18th or 20th of .July. . .

Mr. SA TDERS of Indiana. To what class of pen:;ons was the nddrP.I's delivered?

Mr. PLUMB. It was a picnic held in orne gro~~ outside ot Rt. r.oui · by several of the labor organizations. .

:Mr. SANDERS of Indiana. Railroad men? .

~~: ~~~~l!l~S Yoe{Indiana. Any others? Mr. PLUMB- I was introduced to a great many men, and my recollec

tion is that some of them were not railroad men. Mr. SAND!lRS of Indiana. You C....'l:plained to them the Plumb plan nt

that time? Mr. PLL':MB. Yes sir. . Mr. SANDERS of indiana. You explainPd that you ba<l a plan by . means

of wbtcb yon would take the railroad properties of the United States, nmounting In nctual value, in accordancl:' "'itl! your ()efinitlon of vnlul:',_ to· about tf·n or twelve bi1lions of dollars; that you would squeeze out all the holders of paper title to the property which ul<l _not r present tl.<'tuaJ

CONGRESSIONAL REOORD-'IIOUSJfJ 8. '9-A·tr; ~

valu<', as :vou Uefin.ed it; tha..t then you would mU:ke th Gavernment Bu.t if the powers of reaction prev.ent the- opportunity· fox that e:qn:~purcfinse these properties by issuing bonds; that then you would prov.ide sio~. then. it will come in another way, .. un<l<' r the Plumb plan to turn over for 100 ye~rs, wllich is x perio·d: of Mr. S.!ND1ln:s. of fndiana_ What. other· way? yeurs longer t.ll.an tlie lltettma of: any· o:f: those· emproyees to w.h.om ;you M1:: P'r..uMB'. In the· way it :rlways comes; through history, when reac-wcre talking, turn. this. propm:ty o:ver to a corporation, which: would' be, tioll! prevented vrogres .. by -a majoritY fn. every trtbm1ai. controlled. by them, and: give them,.. Mr. SA~DE!RS ot Indiana.. Well what do you mean by that? tho:-c ralkoad employees, the right to a mn:jority control, to determin<! I 1\fi'. PJ:UMR. Jl do- not t'liink there is any doubt in your mind as to th~ amount of their- wages· that" slwurd be paid', tlte· hOU3.'s· o!' labor that what I mean. · · they • hould be e-mployed, thu conditions of the labor, and that tor- a • Mr.. SaNDERS of Indiana, Thm:a· is- no doubt in my mind as to wha.t perjod of tO~ year&, through· that c.or;poration, they should control by yo.U! meant yeRterda-y. T.he· adoption of the Plumb. plan, through Conmajority rep1·asenta<non the en.tira opemtion, oi tfte r~oarur; a:mi that' gress, would be one way tlraf:' you liave described·; revolution would: then, wha:tever net earnings shauldl be lett shau:f~ be equally divided! , be the other way. between them on_ the one hand a.nd the Governmenil on the- oth.~r hand.. Mr. Pt.UMB. N.o, Congressmen, not for a moment. The adoption of Anll then, when you had concfuded yom: address, liad gotten; through 1 some.plan thatfnvoLves the ne.w orderr be it what it ma:r. I do not cnre speaking, according to your testimony yesterday, crowds of mw came up whetlier rt is tfie Plumb pl:m: or what plan it is but so~ menns mtiSt"be to you, and one of themi representing one group,. sa:id.,. "By el--, if devised, and we have tendered tlii& as- a possible way; and if a bettorr we. ·an not agree on this plan.- then there is going to be> revolution;" an<L way cn'll be devised by law,. acco.mplishin.g. the result, you will find the bf. entiment was echoed by aD' the others there. most patriotic.. support from these same men· that you could possibly

I R that pmctically a,n accUM:te sta:temeut?- ' as!t f-o~r. 1\tr. PLUMn.. No; tb.at is qufte. a long way fro'Ill an accorate. statement.. Ml:. SaxoEns of Indiun..'l. You can sec the: difficurty of om· understand-

You have paraphrased. a. part o! the address in· worilit which I did not ing- what. .rotr mean when. you use uch a: term as ·• revolution,'' which use with m<>nnings which I oid' not conwy, and you ha-vP omitted parta shoufd not be Ughtly used, and I want to caU your attention to the which would greatly modi:!Y that J:)araphr.lse whlcli- I dld use: As to the fact that Mr: BARKLEY, yesterday after:Qoon, asked you what you under~c sion of the man. who came to see me, as- l remember. if, it was stood. to be the mnu's meaning w.ben he used the word· "revolution," " 13y G-, if we can not. get something like this; there will be re.vo- and you repliM. •· I tliink that" in that man's mind· and in the m'ind Iution." i of millions oft o'tliers, they feel thoy have reached the point of diminish-

Mr. SANDERS of Indiana. Of course I do not persunaB.y recollect ju'St' t ing level of" existence where· they can: not stand any more, and ruther what W•Is said, but according to the. reportel!'s no.tes- tlle nerson came than contiime:to serve f-or diininishing retln'ns they. will cease to serve." up to you and said " By G-, it we can not agree on thi pln:n, tnere In: other words, you interpreted the· word· " revolution " ye terday . to is goin~ to bc> revolution." mean. a.c strike:,. although you. give it another meaning, a different inter-

Mr. PLUMJJ. Well, my impression is tllat what he s:thl was, " e preta.tion, t-o-day: You Sllid this: "That s.entiment was echoed by all hun got to ~et something like this; this is a way out on which: we can; of: the oth~.'~· Wllat I w.ant to know is what the sentiment was or' agree, and if w~· d.o not get something like this, then we :rre going to that. bodl' at the concl'usion ot youl'· address. haYc revolution." · Mr. I?LUMB. The s~timent, as I gathered, it, was that here was u. real

It was an exclamation, and it was the meaning that impressed me constr.ncti've effort to J'utTe estatilished, under our Constitution, tht! rathN th:m the e.xaet words. I tried to convey tha:t meaning to you thing that titcy hoped fo1·, . and t'llat a way must" be shown for reu.lizing yesterday. . that hope.

lr. SAl!."DEns of Indiana. rt w:xs a vigorous ex.cfalll3tiun? The Cru..mMA::\• The ~mmittee will adjourn at this point until 10 :Iir. PLUMB. Yes. o'clO-cli to-:.morruw morning.

Mr. SANDERS o.C Indian:~ . He used the term .... l'evolnti.on "? (Whereupon, at 3.30 o'clock p. m .. the committee adjourned until l\lr. PLUMB. Yes. . . . ' Saturday, August D~ 1919,. at 10 otclock lll. m.) Mt·: SANDER'S of I.n:d'ianu.. What d1d you understand to be the· meamng . .

ot the term "revolution" rur used, by the person who wa. SQNtidng n~re peetive of the eonelus1ons you muy llaY-e as to· what was to you? m.tended. tu lm conveyed by Mr. Pl'umb; it neve.x:theless clearly

Mr. PLUM.B. Well. a change. in th.e existing ordex. of t:hi~gs. 'l'herc illnstrates that be ll!ltT in his mind. that these men already;· were. wa.s u. great- deal of conversation, w.tth u. In.rge group standmg around. . . • . . . rn. my spee-ch I told them how this: plan mereiy carl'ied us ba-ek to the gomg t<l determme then· courS'o ot political action solefy- upo-n: founuatious. of our .Government; how it restot'~d' t;o individ~ls th~ theiu p.J:i'\-ru...te interests in. the rai1road' legisla:tion. freedom of oyportm;tJ:ty guaranteed by the Constitution; that 1t made Ml' PlUJllb· made 11 gpeecru on Sentember 13 191'9 at Clev.e-a new o:rde·r of things by evoluti-on under the form of government "' · ·· . P • • • ' establi bed~ and it drew u.s awny from revolution. And it was in that! land, Ohio, a.t the convention of the· Umted· M1ne Workers of. meaning, I think, that he made this exclamation, that "here wns ::ll America in which he u ed: the same adroit plan of saying things way out which prevents revolution." t ' · · . d 1 t ttin · th • ·ds t 1\Ir SANDERS of Indiana. What I! a:m anxious to know is': how you ;o eonvey- one llllPiesswn an a er pu g 1n o e:c w~r : o.

,intcrim•ted his Iangung& when he said. "if' we- can not aguee on this give him a loophole of escape. Listen to the lnnguagc of a- pnl't . plan, there is g<?ing to ~e revolution," I want to. know Iiow- you inter- of the speech he delivered there: · · 1 preted the meanmg of li1s- use of the wovd " revolution "? · . .

1\Ir. PLUMB. An overturning of the existing industrial order and Now I will tell you about the phtn~ the establishment of a new one. Speaking of. the Plumb plan.._

Mr. SANDERS of lndiann. In other words., tlie ovc~:throwing. of our . . . . present form of government? · Tlie plan lS based on tlio~e pi'lllclples. We say we ar.e. gom_! to b~"Ye the

l\Ir. PLUMB. No. They believe thu.t the present focrn of gm·ernmcnt Government b_uy these railroads. That is loose spea~ng. we don t ha'\'~ is the means of establishlng the new. to b~y the railroads, because they are a:ITeady ours, and yet we have. to

Mr. SANDERS of Indiana. You are trying to do that lly appearing talk m the language that is under toad. . . befor<? this co.mmittec and }laving t~is ,Plan ado-pted •. but he said the He later g::we hi hea~er to understand· that it was expected

1other altern.at1ve would be revolution:. Yo~ are usmg the peacenble the Government would pa-u somethin<"' o1l \alue fot· the. rail-plan by trying to get a plan that you think IS a proper plan adopted J b

through the regularly constituted machinery of the Government. He roads. l .su~gested the other plan, which was revolution. .}ow, how do you_ In that same speech before the. miners' convention Mr. Plumb l th~.h~y,.~~t~elfr~~m~~~~~h~t these meDJ use language fottafuUy. further illustrated the point I am making-the destruction of

ITh.ey believe in direct action and. dkect expression. I. would not wonder unselfish eitizenship. He says: very ~uch if tbP revolution th.at we think of !£· the same threat tliat Now, if the Congress dares- den;y; this prin.ciple-and they will-we will our fnend from . Washington. believes he has rece1ved. have another Congress atter the n~'t elec~n that will voice the demand

Mr. WEBSTER You..agree It was a threat? of the people of the United State. Don't' let that worry· you. 1\lr. PLUMB. Yes, Sl.r. 1\Ir. WEBSTER. Ana I <'erta.inly receivtld it. E:ven the period of Gm:ernment opera.tion of railroads brought Mr. PLuM:B. That those w;ho are now administering the Ia_w, which out dearly the evils of makin& a . great body of employee •·

'

these people believe is not m conformity with tlie Constitution, shall . . . o- "" • , f be replaced by men who will act in tbe way in which they believe directly subJect to the action of governmental omc1al . . quote

'tbe Constitution sboul~ be enforc.ecL the following. new paper report of the statement by Director us:rih~A~~~ .. o:C-!!1~~~· .. ~ou bell~ve· that, is what he meant when he· G€neTar wnn.ru;n G. 1\fc.A~oo, in SJ?eaking to railroad employees

Mr. Pr;uM.E.. Oh, you. will have· more than that, to.a. at a mass meeting: on Apr1111, 19!8, at El Paso, Tex. : Mr. SANDERS of. Indla.na. Don't you. thinK he meu.nt by direct action? " The railroads must function. 150 per cent, for we are not employee.

· Mr. PLuMB. Wba'll do you mean by direct action? of' the. .railroad companies but of Uncle- Sam, enlisted in tbe great· legion Mr. SANDERS of. Indiana. What do you dcline. a.s- direct nei.ion, in the of liberty " Secretary McAdoo said~ He aslted the· men not to · become

• meaning that you give it? impatient' because ot the' delay of: the fixing of the new wage sclredull'; , Mr. PLUMB. I _think _the 11rst dlrcct _action would. be tlie usa of the adding that it a raise W?-S granted to the rail~ men it wo.uld- be 1 ballot, and that lS as far lS I can see 1t, and I hope T never will have retroactive, and they wolild th~n ·be able. to buy Liberty· bonds. . to look beyond that. . . " You are all my boys, and· I don't mtend to let anyo~ kick you·

Mr. SANDERS o.f Indiana_ Do yorr think he meant to convey to you around for I wffi defend yon to the limit when you arc rlght and you by that expression that it we did not adopt this plan by using the won't go wrong, ram sure.," he· said. ' baUot they would have it adopted? . .

M.r. P:r.;uM.B. Tht'y wou.Jd ' ha-ve wlla.t? 1\Ir. Chmrman, we have hstened to-a. very able· address by m;y. Mr. S.ANmms of Indi~a. They wo.uld have it adilpted by another very -genial na.mesuke. from the great State of Louisiana [Mr.

Co~CeW-i.uMB 1 th' k I: q • t Iittt 1 t it, t SANDERs]-, who· has :vointed oub time after time .and pla.ce aft~r what· you. hav'c beeintr~g to :~ ~~ r <t.~~~.;en yo~. c oser f! 0 place in th:i.s.legisla.tien in which· we h.a ve done something of a

Mr. SANDERS of Indiana. What I _am trr,ing to get is this": You have helpful nature fot~ the ruikon.ds; and he holds: up his bands in gone out amon~ these people and talKed w.1th them?- holy horro.r~ I might say- to tile· gentleman, that ] think llie

Mr. PI..mrn. Yes. n~ •it .(! th' b'll H~n • th . f t th t - . . . tll t 1\lr. SA.!I!DERS of. Incl[ana. .A.n:d :ro1.1.J said! you wantet.1 to bring us a gre.u mer <h: lS l J..l.,\;;i:l lll• . e ac a "e 1 ecogmze a meEsa.ge from them? this Congress and the: c.ounh·y· O@ not want Gover.nment owne1~-

~~: ~~~~ ~1s.Indlana. What 1 am tr ·n~ to et is what· th t · _ s:htp; we kno\1~ that Amel'i?ff. ~ru ts us t? enact snell. legi lnt'ion sa.ze is. Y1 ., g a roes as i.s necessary to maka pnnl.fe ownership a success. \Vby· W<~

. Mr: Puu.prn, I.tJ is fhis: We have c'?me to a De'W' da.y; we-;llav:e .sp-ent find these 1·aih·ouds with: rate pro<~ucing such reYeJHl a c..'l.useson» liv~s :;md· our m~n~y to atta-In liberty ; and we find, that.. without. a. deficit of a million dollars x dn~~- Wa-m:e ~.oiua. to turn them liberty :m: u~dmrt:ry wo nave ~Y th~ shell ot' actuaJ' Unerty to n':ve ·;: and . _ . . _ . L "" 3 • . • • ~ o , · ~ they UI'e goLDg to get that libellt::V to l1"'e' tlumugh tbe COnstitutl.on and back mto pr:Lvate contllo " durh. '~ e num.edm tel.r. nut those [lfil"- . through tbe l:.twful forces, a n<l i bOlJe to God it InaJ" come· tha.t: w.azy.. roads our into the nmrk.et for · a_, great rlea:l o:fi money in order w

8346 CONGRESSIONA~ RECORD-HOUSE.- ~ N ()VEMBER "11;

meet the capital expenditure that the Government bas marle for them, whether they wanted it or not, amounting to $1.135.-000.000 altogether? Are we ·going to make ·no provision that the rates already in effect shall remain in effect until changed? If we do not, they will immediately go back to the prewar status. It will mean bankruptcy to the railroads. It will mean an industrial del)ress.ion and a panic and a destruction of the financial structure of the entire country, unleSs we deal justly with the railroads.

I have no objection whatever to anybody Cl'iticizing this bill by saying, " Here, you are doing something · which will be of benefit to the railroads of this country."

"But,'' sn~·s the gentleman from Louisbna [Mr . . SANDERS}, "you are letting the ·railroads get control of the water transportation." Originally the subcommittee bill did have a provision for the control of water transportation by the Interstate Commerce Commission, and the gentleman from Louisiana [Mr. SANDER. ] made a \ery able speech, in which he said he wanted water transportation let alone. We struck it all out of the bill, except merely a provision where the.re was a joint rail and water rate. We left water transportation scot free, with no hand of regulation upon it. The steamboats can run, so far as vort-to-port trips are concerned, without a single regulation with reference to rates. They can run even where they compete with the railroads. If two railroads run through competitive territory, they are regulated by the Interstate Commerce Commission, but the water lines running from port to port, competing in the same freight regions, are not touched at all.

Personally I am in favor of just the provisions that are in this bill, but if there is any criticism to be made against it with l'eference to water, it is that we leave the water transportation scot free whi:e we put the raih·oads under regulation. I was in favor of doing that, because I want now to do everything we can to encourage water transportation, but I thought maybe we would give water transportation a little -the edge of it.

The problem that confronted the coii11Dl.ttee, of course, was a simple one, so far as general outlines were concerned. It was our duty to prepare for your passage whatever legislation was necessary for the transition period between the time the railroads go hack tmder private control and the time when a readjustment can be ma.de.

.:!\Ir. BRIGGS. Will the gentleman yield? Mr. SANDERS of Indiana. Yes, with pleasure. Mr. BRIGGS. Has it been computed by the committee just

what the GovernUient loss bas been since the Government took over the operation of the· railroads?

Mr. SANDERS of Indiana. I thillk Yr. BAP.KLEY stated that it was something over $600,000,000.

l\Ir. BRIGGS. That does not include, however, the loss of interest on the revolving fund and other expenses?

Mr. SANDERS of Indiana. No. l\1r. BRIGGS. That had to be met by the increase in costs,

and so forth. Mr. SANDERS of Indiana. No. I could not say just what

items went into it; but we have bad a big loss, and I am not going to d.iscuss that proposition.

We provided in this l.Ji11 that the present rate structure shall remain until changed. It is presumed that will take a period of six months, and the commission will have to work pretty fast to cover this whole matter in six months. During that time we proposed to continue paying the railroads by means of a guaranty the amotmt which they are paid at present. That is not quite an accurate statement of it. You take a six-month period for the same time of year during the three years of the test period, add the three together and divide by three, and that will be the length of your guaranty and the amount of your guaranty. During that time the State commissions can go to work on the State rates and the Inter tate Commerce Commission can go to work on the interstate rates. A rate structul·e will then be made by the Interstate Commerce Commission and the State commissions to meet the situation.

Many members of the committee know that personally I am rather inclined to think the Interstate Commerce Commission ought to run all of them. My work on this committee has taught me that there will never be a piece of legislation of any importance go through the House where we will all agree as to all of its provisions. After all, what ~ must hope to get is the best consensus of opinion about what is right and proper, and that is what we have given you in this bill; and I feel that as the committee examines it and improves it with any amendments that may be made, it will then be the expression of the consensus of the opinion of the Members of the House, and that is the best legislation which we can hope to get. It may have some inaccuracies, .but 'Te haYe given careful study and have

made -these provisions for the 11m·pose of making priYate operu-. tion of the railroads a success. . -~We provided for refunding-for a period of 10 years. That is to keep the railroads from immediately having to go into the money market. Of course, they will owe the Government. I .think that was a very wise provision. We wisely pr·ovided for a $250,000,000 revolving fund for loans. We provided n manner for suits to be brought on claims g1;owing out of Federal control. All these provisions I have enumerated are simply for the purpose of taking care of the situation which we find at the termination of Federal control.

A further part of the measure deals with an enlargeme~t of the powers of the Interstate Comme1·ce Commission with reference . to regulation. We- have _Government . control by means of strong governmental regulation. If you will read the part of this bill which amends the commerce act you will find that not a single earlier can take an important step ill the railroad industry without the approval of the Interstate Commerce Commission. The carriers can not put in new switches and track , they can not abandon tracks, they can not issue securities without the approval of the commission. The commission can upon complaint compel them to equip themselves with the facilities for transportation. It can compel one railroad to permit another railroad to use its transportation facilities.

Mr. ROBS! ON of Kentuc1."J. Will the gentleman :yield? 1\ir. SANDERS of Indiana. Yes. Mr. ROBSION of Kentucky. I notice that the bill provide-·

that the Interstate Commerce Commission can require the railroads ·to furnish cars and other equipment. Many of the . hortline railroads in the country have not the cars and have not the means to get the equipment. They depend -uery largely on the n·unk lines. Does this bill reach the short line , and can you force them to get cars and _equipment?

Mr. SANDERS of Indiana. Yes; but, of course, the matter lies within the discretion of the Interstate Commerce Commission, and I should say. taking it by and large, that it is in favor of the short lines. The commission recognizes that all road· have not at all times the facilities, and gives them the mean to get facilities.

Mr. CLEARY. Will the gentleman yield? Mr. SANDERS of Indiana. Yes. Mr. CLEARY. Does not the gentleman think that the rcO'ula

tion is intended to treat all shippers alike? Mr. SANDERS of Indiana. Yes. Mr. CLEARY. Some people would get all the cars and others

would get none. Mr. SANDERS of Indiana. ·we have a provision in the bill

for equal distribution. Mr. NEWTON of Minnesota. Will the gentleman yieh.l?

. Mr. SANDERS of Indiana. Yes. Mr. NEWTON of 1\linnesotn. Does this plan provide for the

car-pooling system ? Mr. SANDERS of Indiana. No; this bill <loes not. There is

a separate bill for that. This bill has some prolisions, however, Tor pooling arrangement.

1\Ir. NE,VTON of Minnesota. This particular measure doe.· not attempt to dispose of that phase of the matter?

Mr. SANDERS of IndianR. This bill contains a very wise provision _giving the ~nterstate Commerce Commission control over the issuance of securities. This control is exclusive and nffords an adequate preventive of any watering of stock in the future.

Mr. Chairman, there are some confroversial points in this bill, notably the question of a rule of rate making, the question of the adjustment of the financial relations between the carriers and the Government, and the question of added powers given to the Interstate Commerce Commission, which I shall not discuss here, but shall discuss under the five-minute rule, when amendments are presented.

We have the queRtion as to what labor provisions shall be retained in the present bill; personally I favor a provision for the machinery for voluntary adjustments between the employees and the railroads, much the same as now exists between the Railroad Administration and the railroad employees., .and since I know that an amendment will be presented embracing these provisions I shall support such amendment.

I can not let this opportunity pass without emphasizing the importance of retaining the present rate structure until modified in accordance with the provisions of the law. The State rates, in my opinion, would immediately return to their prewar status unless a provision otherwise is left in this bill. The great inequality be.tween State and intPrstate rates appears from the following comparison of commodity rates and class rates in Min'nesota and North Dakota. T. nlso -show the comparison of

1class rates in Illinois· a.nd Indiana:

1919. ~ CONGRESSION .AL RECORD-HOUSE. 8347r I

Comparison oj class rates.

(a) Director General's present interstate rat.es in Minnesota and North Dakota. (lJ) Minnesota commissioners' ro.tes. (c) North Dakota legislative rates (act of Feb. 19,1919).

First class. Second class. Third class. Fourth class. Fifth class. t

Class A. I Class B. Olass C. Class D. Class E.

.Miles.

' 25. •••······ ···· · .... 50.·················· 75.! ................. 1.00 .................. 200 ............... , .. 300 .................. 400 ••................

.... .. (a) l(b)ru>d (a) (b)and (a) (b)and '•) l(b),;.d (a) (brnd (a) (b);,.dl (a) (b)and (a) (b)and (a) (b):md

(a) (b(,and (c) (c) (c) , (c) C) (c) (c) (C)

----25 15.9 21 13.3 17.5 10.6 15 8 11 6.4 12.5 7.2 9 5.6 7.5 4.8 6.5 37.5 20.8 32.5 17.3 25 13.9 19 10.4 15 8.3 15 9.4 14 7.3 11.5 6.2 9 45 25.7 39 21.4 30 17.1 22.5 12.9 17.5 10.3 17.5 11.6 16.5 9 14 7. 7 11.5 51.5 30.6 44 25.5 34 20.4 26.5 15.3 20 12.2 20 13.8 17.5 10.7 15 9.2 12.5 75 50.2 64 41.8 50 33.5 37.5 25.1 30 20.1 30 22.6 26.5 17.6 22.5 15.1 17.5 99 60 84 50 65 40 50 30 40 24 4H 27 35 21 30 18 24

122.5 69. 105 58.2 82.5 46.5 62.5 34.9 49 27.9 4~ 31.3 42.5 24.4 37.5 20.9 30

Com'Parison of co1nmodity rates.

(a) Director General's present interstate r-a.tes in Minnesota and North Dakota. (b) Minnesota commissioners' rates. (c) North Dakota leldslative rates (act of Feb. 19, 1919)

Crain. Cement.

11liles.

From J}::,g~: From ~~~:f tions on ~rutb, Frazee mafinNHne to=~ Minn.! to

0 or. Coarse line· sta- mamline Pac. Ry. Wheat. grain. All grain. tions on (b) (c) stations to Minne- the Nor. 1 on the a£~f~~~ Pac.Ry. I Nor. Pac.

Ry.

(c) c)

4 5 3.2 5.2 7.5 4.2 6.4 9 5.1 7. 7 10 6.1 12.~ 15 10 15 20 12 17.5 25 14

u '

Lumber.

(b) (C)

----------------------:--<a_> __ 1 __ <b_>_ ~ __ cc_>_ ~ ---·:----t--<a_>_1 __ ---l

!~~~~~::::~::::::::::::::::: :· . : ::: :: : :· :: :::::::::J::::::~: :::::~:~:: :::~;: :::::.~i :::::::~: :::::tiij:: ii~ ~~ :HI :~~ Livestock.

(Rates in dollars and cents for 3f-~oot 6-inch car.) Coal. ,

Miles. Cattle, carloads, also Sheep or ~oats in sin~le-Hogsinsinglc-~cckcars. 'J:~le~!k~=- in deckcars. ~

From Duluth, Mmn., to main line ~tatioris on !\or. Pac. Ry.

in North Dakota.

cb) and (r)

(a) . ' .,. l

(a) I (b) (c) (a) I (b) I ·cc) (a) (b) I (c) t;rard. · Sort: Hard. . Soft.

----------------------;----j--- 1- ------r- ---f-----;-:--:---·--------.-,---100 ....................... . .............. , .... . .............. 35.70

~:::;::::::::::::::::·:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ~:~ 400 ....... ~ ·······--····--·--········-------·--·'"···........ 66.30

21.76 29.75 33.66 38.57

21.59 41. RO 28.05 52.80 32.30 61.60 35.70 70.40

26.40 25.30 35.86 33.00 40.70 37.40 45.54 41.80

32.30 lfl. 20 15.2-1 ········ 40.80 22.08 19.RO ... 3 .. ~)' 47.60 2-t.96 22.80 54.40 27.96 25.20 3.50

NoTE.-Rates for shorter dist.ances not shown for the reason that there arc comparatively few interstate movements Cor lesser distances.

Comparison ofcliJ,$& rates in Illinois, Indiana, and inter&taU rate& btjore and after Genera~ Order No. £8.

......... ·:·a:io·

3.30

(a) illinois State scale in effect prior to June 25,1918. . (b) Indiana State scale effective Nov. 2~ 1917, bein~t 115 ner cent ofthe Disque scale (45 I. C. C., 254) prior to General Order ~o. 28. (c) Director General's interstate scale enecth e June 25, 1918. ·

.......... ............. ""io7· ""'i.'69

2.31 1.87 .

First class. Second class. Third class. Fourth class. Filth class. Si"<th class.

Miles. (a) I (b) (C) (a) (b) (C) (a) (b) (C) (a) (b)· (C) ~~ (b) (c) (a) (b) I~ ----------------

25 ............................ ~ ..... 16.5 23.0 29.0 15.0 19.5 24.5 12.0 15.5 19.5 9.0 11.5 14.5 7.2 · 8.0 10.0 6.8 6.5 8.0 50 ................... .- .............. 23.3 29.0 36.5 18.8 24.5 31.0 15.8 19.5 24.5 11.3 14.5 18.5 9.0 10.0 13.0 8. 7 8.0 10.0 75 .................................. 27.1 31.5 39.5 22.6 27.0 33.5 18.8 21.0 26.5 13.2 16.0 20.0 10.2 11.0 14.0 10.2 9,0 11.0 100 .•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 30.8 34.5 43.0 24.8 29.5 36.5 19.9 23.0 29.0 15.0 17.5 21.5 12.0 12.0 15.0 11.7 9.5 12.0 125 ................................. 34.2 38.0 47.5 26.7 32.5 40.5 21.1 20.5 32.0 1(1,5 19.0 24.0 13.2 13.5 16.5 12.7 10.5 13.5 150 ................................. 36.1 40.5 50.5 28.6 34.5 43.0 22.2 27.0 34.0 18.1 20.5 25.5 14.4 14.0 17.5 13.6 11.5 14.0 175 ••••••.•••••••••••••••••••••••.•. 37.7 43.5 54.5 30.1 37.0 46.5 23.3 29.0 36.5 18.8 22.0 27.5 15.0 15.0 19.0 14.5 12.0 15.5 200 ••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• 39.1 46.0 57.5 31.6 39.0 49.0 24.4 31.0 38.5 19.6 23.0 29.0 15.6 16.0 20.0 15.2 13.0 16.0 300 ................................. 44.4 52.0 65.0 36.1 44.0 55.5 28.2 35.0 43.5 22.6 26.0 32.5 18.1 18.0 23.0 17.0 14.5 18.0 400 ................................. 48.1 57.5 72.0 39.9 49.0 61.0 31.6 31!.5 48.0 24.8 29.0 36.0 19.9 20.0 25.0 19.1 16.0 20.0 500 •• · ............................... 50.0 63.5 79.5 41.4 54.0 67.5 33.5 42.5 53.5 26.3 32.0 40.0 21.1 22.0 28.0 20.6 18.0 22.5

I am going to support the proVISIOn of this bill permitting when. this united country of ours will 1·ecognize the transportaintrastate rates to be determined primarily by the State com· tion question as a National and not a State question, when a missions of the several States. I want to make the prediction closer study of the railroad rate problem, of the neces .. ary reveuow, however, that the time will come in the not distant future nue to be derived from all the ronds of the country, w~ll con-

8348 C@N €fRJJJSSI0;N_t~JL. RE00.RD.-RO.lTSltL NOVEl\IBER 11 '

~ince all thinking men that an adjustment of rate· can uot be I' oper-ntion in thr: future. allll to tile ft1tUI'C interests of the mn(lc by 49 different. tribtmals, and Lwant to. quot from h'nUer· public, \\'ho <.lepQud, ill! tlle· main upon. llie e arteries of trade on Interstate Commerce, pnge GT, . a statement which meets my 1 to suppl~: 1.liei want&, tlat U1is. question be determined a a approval:- DIU' of this railroad: legi30.t:ion:

Interstate comm&ce~ha acqJ_iil'eU a. volume anll importance nerep·con:- · ~ow, wl1at is thf! b ·t 'YH,'? Upon tllnt })l'Opositlon there c~ivcd by tho authors of the Const~tution. To-da~r interstate transac- lllRl: IJe a yer "'Teat diYcrgence of opinion. Some time a"'O I hons- comprise a' very large proportion! of the · bUSJ..ness of- the (OUirtry. • . . "' · • • . "' Although the power to regulate commer:ee was granto<.l chiefly a a mt~ollucPd lll• the Hous a lnll, H. R. !>OG2, whiCh reads as means of. pTotection against commercial hostilities and ·rcprisa.ls between ·follows .:. tho \B.t'ious States of the Union it remained practically dormant until .d. lrlll to provide fo•· the 1'nvcsti:z"t1·on of "11 ilisputes ancl con'"OV"''S. ;,s comparatively recent yeat·s . . It: has howevet:, now come to . be rccog- · ~"" .... uc ....... = nized as a most potent affirmative and constructive p{)wer constitu- thL-eatening tbe operation.. of the Government, intercourse between ti.onally capable of elfectiv.c · llevelopment along:- many· line1>. Indeed it the States1 m: · tlie distribution of the necessities of life. may be said to be the greatest '(lowe lodged. in Ute- National Govern- Ba it et~tactedJ eto., That illi order he.reaftet· to more fully protect the ment. with almost! unlimited possibilities of· expansion in• the con- public from actual o:r threatened injury arising from a want- of: the stUiltly growing. field of commercial and1 industriar intet·cour e·: The grope~.:- distribution·· of tbc. neces ities of lite, whenever there· shall' :rri.se latest decisions of the Supreme aourt point to the.. conclusion tlmt when, a controversy 01r dispute respec.ting hours ot Htbot·; wages, or wurking evm· the Federal authority is ready to undertake. the· entiro regulation conditions between a crunmon carrier and its employees engaged in- and.. of transpor-tation rates it will have the power to do. so, so closely inter- providing means of commercial intercourse by railt-r water, telephone~ or related are intrastate and interstate traffic. The signs point to u not teH~g.raph. between.. the States or Terrtiories of the y.nited States, or said. llistant date of unified control of' the whole subject. States or Territories and the District of Columbia, by i'eason of which

I hope this measure will soon pass; I hope action .will soon. controversy or dispute there is in the judgment of the President of the Uuitecl States good reason to believe that such controversy or dispute

)Je taken in the Senate on the bill now pending before it, and threatens, to affect1

interrupt, 01: prevent the civil or military functions that out of the two measures . there shall be evoh·ell such legi - of the. United · States; the. movement of the mails, or the movement of 1 ti ill l 1 th '1 d bl fooll, feect, grain, produce, meats, fruits, coal, wood, or other fuel. a on as W proper r so \e e l'al roa pro em. including fuel oil, oo· other necessities of life. or the free and lawful

The settlement of- the great areas of ' our country from the movement of commerce among the several Sta~es or with foreign naAtlantic to; the· Pacific and from the · Dominion to the Gulf has tions, tl'e President may in his discretion investigate the cause and been determined year after -..·ear and· decade afteT decade bv circumstances of such controversy or dispute : P1·ovided, That nothing

J J in this act shall be construed to apply to street railroads. the location of the lines of transportation, until to-day they- SEc. 2. T.hat for this purpose the President may appoint a special forlll a network of arteries tluough which; c~mrses the lifeblood commission.. ot not to exceed five persons who. in his opinion, arc

f tl n,... bli ..-rn.. b ~<=: t 'nfi 4!~ t · eminently qualified to conduct such inquiry. o le nt:PU c. ~·ue ent:.U..cen l uence-- O.u our ransportatlon SEC. ::; •. That such commission shall effect its organization immedi· system unites the areas . underlai<l with great beds of coal with ately and· proceed to investigate the causes and circumstances of said the ore deposits of other sections. Its magio touch brings tlle_ controversy. with all reasonable dispatch. They shall give reasonable tropical fruits of the. Pacific coast and the sunny South into notice tu the parties to the dispute and proceed witb the conduct of

their inquirY' at whatever place shall in their judgment be most ex-every village and hamlet in the land. H translates the great pedient fol" their purpose. · · forests into the houses that <_lot the treeless prairies and make SEc. 4. Tba:t the commission may adopt such rules and regulations solid the long line of residences- in the densely populated cities as may seem appropriate for the direction of its inquiries, but its forms and towns. It winds through the coal fields, and before many · ~bfer1~~o~~clnt~sese~t~c ogo~is s~ffh~bu~f~ff~[~e~.s nearly as pos-hours have passed' liglited fires bring tlie welcome glow to many S&o. G. That the parties to the dispute shall bo entitled to be present 11 arthstones · far distant parts of the l""d It m kes po 'bl in . person or by. counsel during. the conduct o!. the investigation and

e In · ~ · · a ~ SSl e entitled to be beard, subject to such reasonable rules of procedure as the the varied and manifold activities of our industrial bm;ine s commission may adopt. The commission shall, however, .bo empowered · and social worl(l to hold executive sessions for dcliberati¥c purposes and the consideration

Let us so legislate. that om· railmad.. systelll, . tho marvel und and formulation of its on.inions. d f · 'I' · "·all b b ht h 1 'gh SEC. G. That in the conduct of its investigations the commission, or

won er o ClVl tzation, SU£ e roug up to t e 11"' · est point any single commissioner authorized by it, shall have power to admiQ.ister of efficiency- and sustained in all its vigor) and. we shall then oaths or affirmations, to sign and issue' subprenas, to require the attendhave done the greatest single act that can be done to bring to ance of witnesses and the taking of testimony · in person or by deposiAmerica prosperity, comfort, and happ.iness. [Applause.] tion, to require· the- production of such books, records, and other docu-

mentary evidence as may ba· material and relevant for the proper de· l\lr. HAl\llLTON. Mr .. Chairman, I yield 20 minutes to the termination of the subject of inquiry; whenever in the opimon of the

gentleman from. ludlana .[l\1r. 'Voon]. . commission it shall be necessary, the commission, or any single commis-. ,... 'nOOD t Ind' M Ch · d tl sioner, or -a dulY. authorized agent of the commission, may examine,

1\.u', n · o ·. lana. r. an4Jlan an gen . emen of the inspect. or for that purpose require the operation or visit the place or col.llll1.ittee, I appreciate, and we all a-ppreciate, ·that· tbis- is one operation where the service which is the subject matter of dispute i~ of the most important pie;ces of legislation with which this or performed; for these purpo~es the eommmission may invoke the aid

C · th futu 'll h t d I of district courts of the UmtPd States to compel the attendancE' and any ongress Ill e •near re. Wl ave 0 o. n considering testimony of witnesses, production of books, documents, and records, it I think it most_ impo:ctant' that we . not. only do our level best anct1nnY exeLCise in these respects· the same powers to the same extent, in reference to the. turning back .of this property to private under the same conditions and penalties, as are now vested in tho

hi 'dl th b t ch' ,..;-....1 f th Interstate Commerce Commission by the act to regulate commerce, up-owners p, prov1 ng e es rna mery pos=u e or e opera- proved February 4, 1887, and the acts amendatory; it shall be the duty tion for tbe ·benefit of-tho public in tlie future, but I alSo think of the· district courts of the United States to render said commission the . it is our bounden duty to provide as best we · can. against all 1same aid ' which, . under like conditions., it is required to extend to the

'bl ti · th · h t d 'th hi d ' · said lllterstate:. Commerce Commission; and witnesses testifying · before lJOSSl e -con ngenCI..es ; a may ave o 0 Wl n enng. the said commisRio.n shall be subjeet to the same obligations and entitled to on·eratiop of this-property ~ preventihg its. operation~ like immunities as is provided -in said acts..

Title. II of this act •. attemnts to deal1 with labo disputes and. , SEa. 7. ~hat. ha-ving__ concluded ' its inq!liry, the. commis ion. shall · · 'd · · · f ' th ·. 'd ti d · ttl . t It fD1·mulate Its report thereon: It shall, so. far as It can, declare · the

PI~Vl es rn. a way. or eu C?~Sl era on an · se emen : causes of the dispute, tho· :parties or circumstances responsible therefor, strJkcs me m reading the provisiOn proposed by the committee and shall make such specific findings and recommendations as in its that too little attention. has been ,;iven to the int~rests of the juqgmen~ ;will end .the .controv~rsy: and preve~t its recurrence, an~ if,

Public and that too much attention has been o-iven to the op- in Its opmion7 a l_egislative remedy IS required, It shall make appropnato ~ . recommendations.

erators and to the employees. The. largest . factor. m a . great • SEC. s. That the report-of the commission shall be made in writing to measure has been entirely ignored. The interests of the public, the President and by: hiJ? made public ~nd transmitted to Congress for to my mind should be the controlling the {!aramount factor in. its info.rmation. and ac~o-?, together with such comment~ ant't recom-

. ' . . . " . - mendatwns as m tlie o-pm1on of the President are appropnate. At the tlie conSideration and determmation of this measure. same time or at. such time prior thereto ns in the opinion of the Presi-

I am not one of those ready to admit tliat it is impossible dent is advisable, said report shall be supplied to the principal parties to find a · way tO"' settle the- disputes n:rJsing between common to the controversy:- . . carriers and their emplovees without resortinO' to a strike 1 , SEc. 9. _That tho. President may fix.. a reasonable compensation ~!> be ". • • . o -; • paid to tlie members of. the commi.ssioD from the Treasury at such times

thmk that lS tha last.. measure tlutt should ... be mve.ked for the and• in such manne as- he shall! dire-ct·, and the wmmission, subject to P,Urpose of settling tllese labor disputes: It will be- admitted his approval_. shaJJ h~c authority to employ ~nd fix the .compcn ation that whenever · the-re is . a st:I:ike there is a WOOllO' 01. a. SUP.- of· such employees. as It J?lD.Yi fiJ?.d necessary for the prol?er perf~rmanc .

' . . _ · ::.• · of its-duties. Tbe· comm1ssion IS- authorized tt> ~rov1de Itself w1tb suit• pos~d wrong; some-wlie:~:e:, a the· on the part of' the emploxer or a·ble offices and . supplies. . and all• exnenses · ot the coo:nm.issioners. includJ on. the part of: the employee. Wff· cer:tainls3 can_ find way !Dg-t;ransporta~on .,f.or • tilams~v:e or theiremploye;es. -in condu.ctibg. any·· better than recourse, to , the strike to: right:. thut wrono-. mqmry. autuonz~~ ~nder tHis·, act, shall be a.llDV!ed and pa,1d O?J the

. . . "'' presentation of ' I.telDlzed Toucli.ers therof6r; _ .app~f!>cd _ ):>;r th~ . c;~rman . This Government thus:: far fias been1 a tile- to mee all of tltese and secretary- of the commis~on ..

gl."Cllt questions: am:r to- settle· them. satisfactorily to tha great. · SE . 10. Thatt no commission authorized u.nd.e.c. this act shall. .co.nmaj_ority. of those concerned. It' would Ue. a... confeSsion of weak- , ' tinuo for a. I?erio·d ~ more ~ 60 .day!> f.rom. the date ~f.. its appoint-

. . · . G • .,;. . . . . . t ment unless Its contmued enstence: lS cllrcctell by Executive. or.llex.. nes Ill OUl oveinment uJI' US now to say that 1t lS~ lmQOSSlble SEc. lL That,.pending"tbe conduct and conclusion. of any im-estigation to. find a way- to meet this-troubleoome question Fthink it- can · by- a- commission herein authorized, the submission of its report to the be done· 1 think the great. mass of the Amer.ican people are President and publication of the. sa.~e by him, any combina.ti?n, agr -l - 1.· ., 't · thi~ co find . . I ' H . : , ment; . o:r. consQuacy;by; or.- between. ruther• on botlL of the· p~rties to tl!-e

OOn.ID.,. o :s "-'ongress tt:T some way. beueve the : co.ntroversy·or:: dispute-ro.r: bet!Wet'n . two or·· more persoll ·n<rtwg·ou tltein-majority of the· laboring men of· this~ countrY', with liere: and · , behalf, , with their.. knowl.edg · and <:onsen or.. at their. instigation, to tliere an· exception, are · looking_• ro · this Congress- to·, find: some""! i stdkc or Iocliout. oo: to·. dO' or: rP.f:run.' trom. dolllg ::f!JY. act 01.: acts- tho

h b tl-H~ tr bl -. b d cr.~ • · ; ne:ces ru.-y" pu.rpo e. o effect oL whtch1 1s- to . pre\ent, ihterrupt, obstruet, m~ans w ere y J.JU) ou e m-ay e - etermineu. r beheve- that or interfere with the operation of 'a common cal'l·iet• the employees antl it is to the best interests not only of the railroads but their employers of 'l>hich arc partie· to the controversy ol' dispute, is hereby

1919. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 8349 declared to be a felcny. ..Anv per::~on convicted of the same shall be subject to a fine of not more than $5,0QO or imprisonment for not more tbnn three years, or both fine and imprisonment.

· it consjsts of 11 sections. The first and the last sectio~s set forth the meat of this proposition. The other 9 sections, as you will observe, provide the machinery whereby it is to be put into clfect. I tried to cover as nearly as I could the interests of the public, as well as the interests of the employee and the employer, providing as best I coulll the machinery th~t would settle these diffi<'ulties wisely and equitably between employer and employee and the public, thlnking it would be a means whereby these troubles in the future might be ended.

· I was prompted to do this first by reason of the experienre iliis country had a number of years ago at the time Theodore

· Roosevelt was President of the United States, when there was a threatened strike and tie-up of the great anthracite mines !n the United States. President Roosevelt, realizing that sufferin~ would be entailed, took the matter into his own hands, and without warrant of law or statute, and said the people of this counb·y are vitally interf'sted and must not suffer. He sent for the mine owners and told them that the mines were not to be closed, and if they refused to operate them, if they insisted on a lockout, he would take hold of them. He sent for the worh.i.ngmen and sul<'l to them that these mines must be operated, and " if you will not operate them you must get out of the way and permit somebody else to operate them tbat the coal m~y be supplied to the public."

What was the result? He appointed a commission of disinterested men for the purpose of inquiring into the disputes existing lletween the operators and the miners. The result was that before that commission had finally come to its determination the strike was settled, and people were supplied with all of the coal that they wanted, and it \\as settled, if you p1ease, to the satisfaction of the great mass of those concerned. I have in mind that for the purpose of settling these disputes in the future the President of the United States should be empowered to appoint a committee of fivf' men, eminently qualified for the purpose. to make an investigation into the facts and the surrounding circumstances causing that particular dispute or controversy, and that that commission shall have all of the powers of the courts, all of the power. of the Interstate Commerce ComllliE=sion, for the purpose of making the completest possible investigation; that during that period of time it shall be unlawful either for a strike or a lockout to occur, upon the theory that if the operator is wrong that wrong would be discovPr{'fl and righted; and, upon the other hand, if the wrong lay with the workmen, that wrong would likewise be djRcovered and l'ighted. In t11e meantime the people of the United Stutes would not be made to suffer.

Take the bill that we have before us now; there is no rea <:on why this sort of operating machinery should not be inserted into it.· There is nothing in this bill that prevents the possibility even of n. b·ike. If they had added, after all of the machinery, cumbrous though it may be with reference to mediation, with reference to the investigation-if they had added a clause providing that during the time that this investigation is being made, anc1 until the report is made back to the Pre~ident of the United States, tl1e work shall continue and no strike or lockout shall be had, there would never be a strike and never a lockout, for the men appointed, even under the machinery of this bill, eminently fair, with the power to make inquiry, going to the bottom of the dispute, with the determination of doing exact justice to all, would seldom have to finish the investigation, because public opinion would !lecide the question before the investigation was completed, and public opinion is t11c deciding power after all in the. e great questions. We have . een evidence of that within the very last few days.

Who wonhl be benefited by a proposition of this kind? Who would be hurt, if there was such a thing invoked? All people of this country certainly would be benefited. I maintain that the laboring men themselves who are interested would be most heneptecl, and in no eYent euuld they he harmed.

The only one who possibly could be damaged by reason of machinery of tills character is the professional agitator. That gentleman would soon be out of a job. I know that the American workingman, whether he is engaged in a shop, a factory, or on the farm, is interested in having some kind of process whereby these labor difficulties may be determined. I believe thnt the great mass of the miners who were ordered out on this strike, without having any voice or vote in determining that propositlon, would gladly welcome the day when there would be some kind of · machinery whereby they knew that their rights would be protected to the uttermost, and whereby they would be saved from the wastefulness of these strike operations. I see by the paper that this strike, jm:::;t ended so happily to-day, lasting only eight tlays, has co~t the miners-the men wl:ro work down deep

in the earth in these mines, $20,000.000-$40 apiece. What would ·this waste ha\e amounted to had the strike continued for · ~ month or two months? Not alone -is the waste to the men \vho are thus deprived of their opportunity to work and earn but tenfold more waste may result to the producing activities of ihi . · country by reason of their being deprived of their J1l'Oduct.

Here we are at a time when the whole world is lootdng to Ute United States for the purpose of affording the greatest possible production, at a time when the President of the United State · is appealing with all of the power of his being through all of lli. · administrative agencies for every man, woman, and child in the country to produce and keep producing more and more all 6f the time, and yet we are sitting llere and permitting the opportunities of waste not only to continue but to grow more and more. I say that it is unbecoming in the Congress o+ the Unite<l States, that has with such diligence met the great problems of the past and it is a confession that we should not subscribe to, to say that it is impossible for us to meet this thing now. I believe that if there ever was a time in the history of the legislation of the United States when the opportunity was ripe for US to provide a means whereby thiS wastefulnP.SS Shall be ·saved for all the future, and whereby not only the bloodshed nnd riot and destruction of property that constantly is entailed by rea· son of these strikes may be prevented, it is now. I know whereof I speak when I speak about the wastefulness of the sh·ikes. We have had them in my· district very nearly this entire yeru·. First the steel strike and then other strikes and then the teel strike again, when millions and millions of dollars "·_ere wasted in the idleness enforced in those mighty factory towns, when millions and millions of dollars were kept away from the men once employ~d in these factories, because by reason of sonw! ~0dy'::; wrong they are not permitted to work.

I have letter after letter coming to me from men in tile steel industry in my district who say that ·they had no complaint to make either as to wages or labor conditions, but that they were forced out in obedience to this strike call. I say that such a condition is unfair to the men themselves, it is infinitely unfair to the American people, and it is unfair to the public, which we are supposed to represent here, and in whose · interest we are supposed - to act. We have been proclaiming that government is established for the benefit of all the people, and w have been legislating or professing to legislate for the masses and not for the classes. A great many years ago the autocracy of capital asserted itself in this country, when the 9wner. of the railroads of the country sought to exploit them and clicl exploit them for individual gain. It remained for the Congre. s of the United States, after a long tTial, to enact laws to convince the men who were the owners of these railroafls that Uley were mere agents serving the public aud that llieh· instrumentality was an instrumentality that belonged, for use a t least to ·the public, established for the purpose of serving the publlc, and that it would be controlled in the intei'Cf't of the puhlic.

It is just as essential, it occurs to me, to provhle for th(' operation of these railroads uninterruptedly a it is essentin1 for us to provide the manner in whlch they shall be OlJcrnted and the conditions under which they shall be operated. It is just as essential for the American people, who are so vitally interested in this legislation, to know not only that the engine. arc to be supplied fo1· the purpose of running and the track:-; arc to be kept in good condition, but also that the men who n re on the engine and cars, who arc attending to the track or wherever they may be, shall function, and nlso to h'llow an!l rest serene in the satisfaction of knowin~ that there is a measure provided by law where exact justice will be done to the laboring man who work3 upon the track, that cxa. t justice Will be done to those who are engageu either iu it. operation, in its maintenance, or in the furnishing of capital tv it. Provision should be made so that the man who inve tF> a dollar in the capital stock of t.he raill·oad ·· of this country will not lose it. The public is likewise interested in knowin~ that when a laboring man i~ doing his work that be is gettin~ a just .return for his labor and that ·he will be permitted to work under labor conditions tiJat shoulll ·be 11rovidetl for human beings. We are likewise, nnd the pu!Jlic is, vitally _ interested in knowing that when those conditions arc furnished this work wil1 be done, an<l that in the event that ther is a dispute or in the event that there is a controversy that there is some machinery of law without reference to a mob or riot whereby these disputes may be deteemineu for the benefit not only Of those who arc immediately concernf'd hnt for the benefit of the entire public.

Mr. STEELE. Will the gentleman yield? Mr. WOOD of Indiana. I will. Mr. STEELE.· The gentleman is stJ:iking what to my 1Llinu is

one of the weak points in this present bill. Tho gP.ntleman·~ con-

8350 N OVEl\IBER 11'

tention practically is in favor of compulsory arbitration. . As STA.TEliE. ~T . . against that .contention it is stated that it would be un~ns~tu. tional to restrict the right to strike by compulsory arbitration. Wllnt does the .,.entleman say in answer to that contention?

Mr. WOOD of Indiana. I do not take any stock in that contention. I am of the opinion that If the United States Gover~ment has the right and authority to take over an agency that 1t has the right and authority to tAke and operate that agency, antl in doing so to use such means as may be necessary f~r that purpose and that nnder the police power they have the r1ght to • do that'thing. This is not private property, it is a quasi public property, operated, if you please, with the sanctio~ of the Gov

.ernment and can only be operated by the sanction of ~e Gov-

The effect of the change agreed upon in couferen is to strike from the House amendment the following language: " provided alienated land shall be acquire<] in the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior at a cost of not more than ~5 per acre."

ernment and for the purpose of .serving the public. It lS therefore surrounded by this pollee power and authority that is directly given to the Government for thLs purpose of protecting

There are only 80 acre of aliE.'nated land in the proposed park.

It is not desirE.'d to purchase sai<l land. N. J. lNNOTT, ADDISO~ T. SMITIIt J AS. H. MAYS,

Managers on the 11art ot the Jiousc. ·

its sovereign rights. . 1\Ir STEELE. In support of the gentleman's view, is not that

. ubsbtntially what the Supreme Court stated in settling the Adamson taw?

Mr. WOOD of Indiana. Absolutely the same thing, not only in .settling the Adamson 1a w but in the Debs case as well, so there is no validity in that contention. Now, then, gentlemen, it strikes me that now is the time, not to wait until after a while when it may be too late for us to act before dire calamity may fall upon the country. I believe that the laboring men of this country are just as patriotic as the .capitalists of this country. I believe they ::tre just as desirous of ~o1ng their full measure of duty as anybody else is. I say it would be a slander and a reflection upon a man who handles the throttle upon an engine or who works anywhere else to say that he is not actuated with the same patriotism and honest impulses that the man who owns that railroad is actuated by, and therefore . I believe that here is a possibility whereby the American Congress through its judicious action can take and forever settle this question and bring about a better understanding, a better feeling among those who are the employed and those who are the employers. It is up to us, and the time is now ripe for such action. [Applause.] .

The CHAIRMAN. The time of the gentleman has expired. Mr. WOOD <>f Indmna. 1\1r. Chairman, ·I ask leave to revise

a.nu extend my remarks. ' The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection? [After a pause.] The

Chait· hears none. Mr. HAMILTON. 1.\Ir, Chairman, I mo\e that the committee

uo now rise pursuant to the rule. The motion was agreed to. Accordingly the ~mmittee ro e; and the Speaker h::tving re

sumed the chair, Mr. W ALSnt Chairman of the Committee of the Whole House on the state of the Union, reported that that committee, having had under consideration the bill H. R. 10453, had come to no resolution thereon.

CONFERENCE BEPORT.

)lr. SINr10TT. 1\fr. Speaker, I present the rule a conference report.

for printing tm<ler

The SPEAKER. The Clerk will report it by title. The Clerk read as follows:

onference report on Senate 42:>, an net to e tablish the Zion National Park in tbe State of Utnb.

The SPEAKER. Ordered to be printed under the rule. 'l"'he conference report .and statement are as follow :

CO~-nmENCE BEPOBT.

Tile committee of conference on the disagreeing votes of the two Houses on the amendment of the House to an act (S. 425) to establish the Zion National Park in the State of Utah having met, after fuU and free conference have agreed to recommend and do recommend to their respective Houses as follows:

That the Senate recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the House, and agree to the same with an amendment us follows: In Ueu of the matter inserted by said amendment insert the following: "under which name the aforesaid national park shall be maintained by allotment of funds heretofore or hereafter appropriated for the national monuments, until such time as an independent appropriation is made therefor by Congress ".; and the House agree to the same.

N. J. SINNOTT, ADDISON T. SMITII, JAB. H. MAYS,

LE.A \E OF .ABSE:.'\ OE.

By unanimou; con ent l\lr. GALLIVAN was granted leaye of absence for fi\e days on account of the death of hi brother.

EXTENSIO ~ UF REYAnKS. ' .

1\Ir. WELLD.G. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to extend my remarks in the RECORD by printing a speech de· livered by Mr. LEA of California at the dedicatory services helc1 to-day in La Fayette Park at the planting of some California redwood trees.

The SPEAKER. I there ol>jection? [After n pau e.] The Chair hears none.

Mr. CONNALLY of Tex:a . l\lr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to extend my remarks on a nonpolitical subject, on the subject of the anniversary of the slgning of the armistice.

The SPEJAKER I there objection? [After a pause.] The Chair hears none.

Mr. LARSEN. 1\Ir. Speaker, I ask the privilege of extending my remarks on the industrial situation in the South.

The SPEAKER. Is there objection? [After a pause.] The Chair hears none. The Chair designates to pre ide this evening Mr. MoNDELL, of Wyoming.

1\lr. GARRETT. Is the . p~alwr prepared to take up the matter!

The SPEAKER. There is on the calendar by accident a re· port from the investigation, of the election in the fifth Missouri district that contains a report that required no action. The Chair thinks it is improperly on the calendar, andt without objection, it will be stricken from the calendar and laid on the table.

There was no objection. The SPEAKER. The hom· of G o'clock having arrived, under

the rule tlie House stands at recess until 8 o'clock this evening. Accordingly (at G o'clock) the House stood in reces until 8

o'clock.

EYENING SESSIO?\T. The recess h::t\lng expireu, the House (at o'clock p. m.)

was called to order by the Speaker pro tempore, 1\Ir. 1\lo::wELL. FILING OF MINOIUTY VIEWS.

1\Ir. GARRETT. M.r. Speaker, .u parliamentary inquiry .. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman will state Lt. 1\.lr. GARRETT. I desire to inquire whether a report has

gone into the basket during the day on House resolution 381, introduced by the gentleman from Illinois [:l\Ir. GBAHAl\I], chairman of the Special Committee on. Expenditures in the War Department?

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair i informed that such a report has been deposited in the basket.

1\lr. GARRETT. Mr. Speaker, I do no1; know just precisely what course to pursue under that statement. The rules of the Hou e provide that reports of a committee, together with the views of the minority, shall be printed. It was my understandin"' that the report of the committee before being introduced w~uld be submitted to me. I may be in error in my recollection but that was my understanding. So, it seems the only thing 1 ca~ do now is to ask unanimous consent-which was not sub-mitted-for a certain time in which to file minority views. .

The SPEAKER pro tempore. If the Chair .ID:ay suggest, ~111 the gentleman be good enough to withhold hlS request until a little tater and submit it again this evening?

1\11' GARRETT. I will be \ery glad to do that, except I do not ~sh to lose my right to file minority new~. I am em-barrassed in this ma.tter, Mr. Speaker. .

Managers on the pm·t of the House. REED SMOOT, .A.LBERT . B. FALL, HENRY L. MYERS,

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentlema.n w1ll not lose his rights, and it is possible that in the meantime we can have

· an explanation of the situation, which does not appear to be clear to the gentleman. The Chair knows nothing of the cir· cumsta.nces.

Managers on tlw -pa1·t ot the Senate. 1 Mr. GARRETT. I realize tlmt.

1919. CONGRESSIONAfJ · REC0~HOUSE.-

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman will be recog- The ant: finds ex~mplification in the life of John D. Rockefellet·. nized before :adjournment, if he desires to be.. The other is typified in the life of Abraham Lincoln. The one

THE RAILROAD BILL. spent his life accumulating pr.operty and ~rotesting against the restraints .of government. The other dedicated his services to

Mr. WINSLOW. Mr. Speaker, I move t'hat the House resolve ~ eause of bumanit:y and was a careful interpreter of the itself into th'e Committee of the Whole House on the state of the prindples of free institutions. Union for the further consideration of the bill H. R. 10453. , if the principles of free ins1:it:8tions a:re in ~ ascendency. if

The motion was agreed to. the rights of the individual are kept uppermost by the people, Accordingly the House resolved itself into the Committee of then the tendency is toward a democrotie or republican form

the Whole House on the state of the Union for the further con- of government, the ultimate purposes ot whieb are the greatest ,:ideration of the bill H. R. 10453, with Mr. WALSH h1 the chair. good to the greatest number. If the a(.'(ftlisition of property

The CHAIRMAN. The House is in Committee of the Whole gains a mastery over tbe miBds of m-en.. then the tendency is House on the state of the Union for the consideration -of the toward greed, tyranny .and oppression and a urollarcbial f01·m of bill H. R. 10453, the title of whieh the Clerk will Teport. government, where the rights of the many are subservient to the

The Clerk read as follows: domination of the few. A bill (H. R. 1.~53) to provide f-ort~ tennino:ti?n of Federal control We as a free people are tending one way or the other. Nothing

of r~ilroads and systems of tra~port~tton; to provide for the srttlement in this world can pause or stay. There is uneeasing change of disputes between carriers and theu employees; to further amend an act entitk>d "An act to regula.~ commerce;" approve Februat:y 4, 1887, everywhere. as runended ; and for other purposes. The que..•.:tion naturally arises, Wl1icb way ~re we tending as

Mr. SIMS. Mr. Chairman, may I inquire how the time stands a people? Have we thus .far observed the foregoing distinctions oow? in the eondueting of our business relations a.nd in the adminls-

The CHAIRl\lAN. The gentleman from Tennessee [Mr. tration of the affairs of our Government? SIM.] has usoo 3 hours and 47 minutes, and the gentleman Shall we as a nation embark on a policy of managing and from Wisc-onsin 3 hoUTs and 52 minutes. operating business, or shall we continue to control and regu-

Mr. WINSLOW. Mr. Chairmftll, I yield 30 minutes to the late it? · gentlem-an from Iowa [Mr. SWEET]. Shall we turn onr Government into a great business .concern

Mr. .SWEET. Mr. Chairman, the Comu1ittee on Interstate in the modern acceptance of that term 1 and Fm·eign Commerce has held extended bearings on the rail- Shall we cling to the fnnd:tmental principles of free instituway problem that confronts the country. Many plans for there- tlons which guided the framers of on.r Constitution or in the organization of the method of operating and maintaining our prest>nt extremity shall we depart therefrom? great lines l(}f transportation were sn.bmitted for our considera- I shall not discuss tl1e fore~oing questions separately, but I tion. The men wbo presented and ru.·gued the plans displayed shall treat them as a whole, for, in faet, they all pertain to one great ability, and I am sure it was evident to e~ery member of proposition. the committee that they had spent an unmm.al amount of time Our fathers, when they founded the Government under Whi<'h. in careful and painstaking research and study in their prepara- we are 'living, recognized the foregoing distinctions and under· tl-on. stood these questions as well and better than we do now.

These plans embrace almost ry phase of the stupendous Tbe fi·am~ of tbe ~titution ~a ted the following proposi-questi-ons involv-ed in the varied relations between capital . and tions, among others, as fuily e..~blished: labor, private and Government ownership of property, private 1. Every man is free in tbe exf'rcise of his religion. The and public management of property, and the policy to be pursued eternal divorcement of church and gt;..<tte. by our Government with t'eference to the great transportation First amendment to the Constitution: systems of the -country. · CongrP~s shall make no law re!'lpecting an establishm~nt ot religion

1 belie\T€ it is plain to every tboughtful man that we are at or probtbiting the free exeretoo tbereof. the threshold of a new era in the economic, industrial, social, 2. Free speech and liberty of the press. and governmental life of the Republic. First amendment to the Congtitution:

Things are in a chaotf.c eondition throughout the world, and Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech or of whatever plan o1· method is finally adopted by Congress will tbe press. probably be in operation for the next half century. 3. Tbe rigbts of property being inviolable and sacred, no

The adoption of a wrong policy might eventunJiy threaten the one ought to be deprived of it, except in c-nse of evident public existence of the Republic. The rights of the wage -earner, the neces:sit:y, legally ascertained, and en condition Qf previous just investor, and the general public should receive due recognition indemnity. and protection. In my judgment the adoption of .a definite pol- Fifth amendment to the C.onstitution : "No person shall be deprived icy by the Government toward the transportation lines of th~ of life, libt>rty, or property without due process of law; nor shall country is not only desirable, but is mandatory. and would in a private property be takPn for J!ll.bltc use without just compensation."

Fourteenth amendment to tbe Constitution : " Nor sha 11 any Sta.te great measure do away with the universal unrest throughout the dPprive any person of life, liberty. or 1u·operty without due process of country, and have a tendency to steady and stabilize all business law." conditions.

In approaching the subject before us, thf>n, it might be well at the outset to examine into the fundamentaJ principles involved in these important questions. as set forth by the framers of our form of governmPnt and which we find embodied in the Constitution of the United States.

Many writers on government have confounrled property rigbts with the principles of frpe institutions. While they are. somewhat involved, they are diffPrent. TbP one relates to the ownership of property-its possession and its transfer. The other relatE'S to the individual and the duty of one to the other.

The one has to do with thE> affairs of business. The other with thE.> respons]bilities of government.

The one pertains to our wants. The other to our security. Tbe one tends to snfeguard our means of existence. The

other insures our freedom and preserves our liberties. The one pertains to the restraint of our greed and avarice.

The ather gives scope to our individualism, ideals, and better imnulses.

The one r-elates to material things in which individual possession is possible. The other relates to things which can not be possessed by any individual but which all persons share and enjoy alike, such as good will, spirituality, mental operations, frePdom.

The one springs from the promptings of our baser untures, and is of the earth earthy. The other draws inspiration from and finds its counterpart in the laws of the universe. Th-ese distinctions run through all nature.

As stated before, the above propositions were considered as established by the framers of the Constitution. Tl1e first two propositions are simply cited here for the purpose of comparison. Tbey have been Wthfully observed by Congress and tand as the unquestioned law of the Land, as et forth in tl1e Constitution of the United States and th~ amendments thereto.

The third proposition recognizes beyond questlon the right of tbe individual to own and enjoy property .aHd the fruits of his toil, and make such dL<;pos.ition of his possessions, capital, income, and industry as he chooses.

It t·ecognizes the right of every citizen to engage in any kind of labor commerce, or agriculture; he can manufacture, sell, and trar:sport every species of production.

When the Constitution and the first 10 :un~ndments were adopted all the property located in the several State was owned and controlled by the several States or the JWQple. All questions in regard to property and property rights were left to the several States, or tbe people. except in so far as it might be necessary to acquire property in the ways and for the specific purposes enum~rated ln the Constitution.

What are the provisions in the Constitution in regard to the acquisition of property?

1. The Congress shall have power to lay and c;ollect taxes, duties. imposts. and .-xcb;es : to pay the de~ts sud prov1de for the common defeDSf' and general welfare of the Umted States.

2. The CongrPss shall have the power to borrow movcy on the credit of th.:- United States.

3. TbP Congress shalJ have .the power to coin money, regulate the value ~ereof, and of ro.reign co1n. .

8352 CON-GRESSIONAL -RECQRD- HOUSE. N OVBl\fBER 11'

4. 'l'be Cong t·ess ~ hr..ll have t he power to es~ublish post office anq p-ost roads.

G. '.rhc Congress shall ha ve the power to exercise exclusive legislation in a ll cases whatsoever over such district (not exceeding 10 miles square) as may by cession of particular States and the acceptance of Congres b~ome the seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the State in which the same shall be for the erection of forts, magazines, and arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings.

G. The Congress shall have the power to dispose of and make all needful rules and regulations respecting the Territory and oth_.r property belonging to tbe United States.

7. All debts contracted and engagements entered into before the adoption of this Constitution shall be as valid against the United

tates under this Constitution a s under the Confederation. 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes

from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States and without regard to any census or enumeration.

The laws of the several States are supreme as to property and property rights, except as to the powers granted to Congress as set forth abo-ve. .

It must be observed that the framers of the Constitution in granting the abo-ve-mentioned powers to the Federal Government did not contemplate the purchasing of property except for the purpose of exercising the functions of government and promoting the general welfare through the powers specifically granted to Congress.

To levy and collect t.ax:es, duties, imposts and excises, to borrow money, to coin money, to establish post offices and post roads, to accept cessions ot particular States as a location for the seat of goYernment, and to exercise authority over all places for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful building , to make all needful rules and regulations respecting the territory and other property belonging to the United States, to lay and collect taxes on income from whatever ource derived, are all "Government functions."

While borrowing money is not exclusively a Government function, yet as used in the Constitution it pertains wholly to governmental affairs as distinguished from ordinary business.

It i plain that the framers of the Constitution did not in any manner contemplate -the purchasing of property for the purpose of operating, conducting, managing, and establishing a " business concern."

There '\\as no thought of profit or the accumulation of property for property's sake. ·They were dealing solely with the necessities of government, vie,vetl from the standpoint of the general welfare of the people a · manifest through the proper exercise of go-v rnmental functions.

The word " business " is here usoo in the modern acceptance of that term as applied to financial and commercial enterprises.

I lay down this proposition, then, that the framers of the on titution did not in any manner contemplate the establish

ment of a " business concern" when they drafted the Constitution and gave us the form of go-vernment under which we live.

In other words, they rigidly adhered to ·the doctrine, render unto business the things that pertain_ to business and unto o-overnment the things that pertain to government. [Applause.]

What other evidence have we that this proposition is in harmony with the views of the makers of the Constitution?

Let u turn to the preamble : W(', the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect

union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquillity, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessin~s of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. ·

You will obser-ve that the Consr~ution is for the United States of America; not of the United States of America.

'l'het·c is no such thing as the idea of a compact between the people on the one side and the Government on the other. The compact was that of tbe people with each other to produce and c.onstitute a government.

There is nothing in the preamble which refers to managing ana conducting nnd operating a busine s. The handling, cari·ying on, operating,' and management of business was left to the ewral States or to the people thereof.

The United States GoYernment only ha. the powers granted H by t he several States.

The Constitution and t11e amendments thereto are the embodiment of all the powers and authority that can be exercised by the United States Government. All other powers were re er-ved to th States or to the people.

The tenth amendment to the Constitution: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution

nor prohibited by it to the Stat es are reserved to the States respectively or to the people.

The framers of the form of go-vernment under which we live were not organizing a "great business concern" but a Republic: Let me repeat, they were organizing a Republic ancl not a democ: racy.

I am aware that to many this will be a startling assertion, due to the fact that for the Jast 20 years or more the word ." democ-

racy" has been indiscrimjnfltely and improperly used by many men of note in referring to our form of government. •

Lincoln in his letters and public utterances in discussing governmental affairs seldom, if ever, u sed the word "democrncy." In his Gettysburg address he· stated, in part, as follows: · · 1

Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived m liberty and dMicat ed ' to the proposition ihat all men are created equal.

In another part of the address he stated-and that government ; f the people, by the people, unu for the people shall not perish from the earth.

He referred to it as being a government of the people, and the manner in which it was conceived and formed by our fathers, but he did not refer to it as· a democracy. -

The Constitution also in express language guarantees to every State in the Union a republican form · of government. Article IV, section 4, of the Constitution is, in par't, as follows: ·

The United States shall guarantee to every ·state in this Union a. republican form of government. ·

The government of every successful business enterprise is, in fact, if not in form, a monarchy or oligarchy. It is constructed from the top downward. It has for its objects the accumulation and the management of property. It has to do with property rights. The executive, legislative, and judicial powers are vested in one man or set of men. This, of necessity, must be so in order that there may be efficient business management. This thought has been crystallized in the organization of private corporations for pecuniary profit, all of which derive their power and authority from the several States, except in a few instances corpo1•ations have been nuthorized by an act of Congress.

Examine into any great business and you will find somewhere a master mind-a king, if you please-directing and managing its affairs. You will find it under one supreme will, or the supreme domination of a few kind1'ed spirits, who are autocrats inth~~~ ;

The fathers constructeu our Government from the bottom upward. It was based on the consent of the governed. They violated all the principles which underlie the organization of a successful business.

They were dealing with the principles of free institutions and not with property rights, only in so fur as they might affect the general welfare of the people. ',rhe ownership of property and property rights were reserved to the States or to the people except in so far as it might be necessary to exercise the functions of government.

Our Federal Government consists of three branches-the legislati-ve, the executive, and the judicial. The e three branches were to be kept as distinct as possible.

Jefferson said : That instrumentThe Constitution-

~eant that its coordinate branches should be checks on each other. If they had been o1:ganizing a business concern, they would

not have made these divisions. A successful business organization is a monarchy in form, and these three branches must be -vested in one man · or set of men acting in unison and harmony. There must be concentration of power in order to have effective business management. That which is everybody's business is nobody's business. Successful business will not tolerate delays. Promptness of action and decision is absolutely necessary . to efficient · management. This, of course, does not of necessity preclude an arrangement whereby a person or persons employed by a business concern may share in the. profits or earning. , if any gro"ing out of a business, and thus receive the compensation' to which they arc ju tly entitled by reason of their cooperation, skill, and industry.

When the framers of the Constitution organized our Government they were not looking to the acquisition of property for a business concern. In fact, they did not ha-ve any property to begin with; neither did they have in mind the acquisition of property-only in so far as it might be nece sary to exercise the true functions of government. . Business, fundamentally, stands on three legs-capital, labor, aml management. Experience has demonstrated bey<;md all caYel that the GoverllDlent can obtain capital and employ labor, but i t cnn not furnish efficient managemen.t. Business concerns can obtain capital, employ l~bor, and can furnish proper and efficient management.

Capital, labor, and management-and the greatest of these, viewed from a successful business standpoint, is management. lf any one of these three is lacking, the structure must inevita.bly fall. Some writers have asserted that 95 per cent of business SllCCess is dependent upon management. ..

The organic structure of free institutions precludes the securing of competent and efficient management, for, primarily, it

10.19. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE.

has to do with t11e government of peoples whose consent must be first obtained through slow; devious, and uncertain methods.

Tho organic structure of a succe.<:;sful business concern in-. herently contains all the essential elements of good management. for it primarily deals with property, and the will and commands of the financial head must be obeyed.

These two forms of government are in irreconcilable conflict and have been since time began.

The one pertains to property tights, the other to tbe principles by which a ft·~ people are governed. If it ls our purpose, then, to turn our Government into a great business concern. we must organize along business lines. If the Government is to be swallowed up by business, we must retrace our steps along the dusty highway over wWch our forefathers marched in triumph and with popular approYal. We must resort to taxation ou a more extensive scale to make up deficits created by slothful Government management. If we wish to keep it a republic, if we wish to preserve the Constitution, we must cling to the fundamental principles enunciated and adhered to by its founders.

Do not misunderstand me. We must regulate and control these so-called business monarchies. We must not allow our Government to become imbued with the spirit of these institutions and thus gradually merge into an autocracy. We must not allow creatures of the laws of the several States to become greater and more powerful than tile ll'ederal Government. They must not be superior to their creators.

In our desperation we must guard against acting unwisely, for we . can not afford to even compromise with them. when a fundll.mental principle of government is involved. Our foref;lt.hers compromised with slavery and it took a · Civil War to tight the WI"OD3.

The Government of the Republic and the management of great business concerns must ea<:h remai!l in their own appointed spheres, as precisely and constantly as the planets keep to their orbits. We eA.'ist under government; we live by indu~try.

. At all times and under all circumstances we should keep in mind the pm·poses for which our Government was organized, as set forth in the preamble to the Constitution-

To form a more perfect uni.on, establish justice, insm·e domestic tran· qnillity, provide for tht> common defense, promote the genPral welfare. and secure the blessings of liberty to o01~elves und op.r posterity.

'i'he history of this country has shown that these business monarchies are of short duration. They have usually been built up and around the life of an individual or a number of kindred spirits. When the king dies, so to speak, the property he has accumulated is usually dissipated cr divided among those who are legally entitled thereto. In this country we have no primogeniture.

Most of the men who have accumulated fortunes in this country started poor, and their grandchildren usually spend that which their grandfathers accumulated through great industry. perseverance, and self-denial. It is usually accomplished in three generations. The coddled sons of the rich are not a match fo1· ·the aggressive sons <>f the ordinary man. ·

Monarchies in government, as weU as in business, usually die with the reigning house. Republics are a happy medium between tyranny and chaos, and so long as they e:xei·ciRe only the functions of government and keep in mind the principles of free institutions we have eYery reason to believe their existence will be · perpetual. All nature sanctions this conclusion, fur it is the doctrine of the happy medium.

When George Washington died he was the richest man in the Republic. It is estimated that his fortune amounted to about ~500.000. It bas been distributed. It is not intact to-day.

Business fortunes in this country are continually being accumulated and dissipated. The careers of many of our succes~fuJ business men are now but a tradition while our Republic lms survived unimpaired. and ln my judgment it will continue to do so if we rigidly ndhere to the principles promulgated by its founders as set forth in the Constitution. [Applause.]

In order that I mny not be misunderstood, I \\ish to state that I am not one of those who contend ·that the Constitution should not be amended at·times. To do so would be to deny that progress can be made and conditions bettered. A people always have the right to review, reform, and change their constitution. Our Constitution provides for amendments. One generation has not the right to subject future generations to its laws.

Our Government bas been in existence for over 130 years ... and has served as a model for many peoples striving to work out improvements in governmental affairs. It has been admired by the lovers of Uberty everywhere.

My contention is that a government that has worked so wen and has been so beneficial to mankind should not be fundamentally changed, unless the evidence for the proposed change

when fairly weighed is cleru:' and the. aFg:llment; in its favor comincjng anrl logicaL

Thus far the discussion has largely been eon.tinecl to the con· struction to be placed upon the Constitution and the amendments thereto.

I shall now review brietly our bistoTy fo~ tlle purpose of ascertainin~ if possible, whethei as a Natlan for over 130 years we have pursued the policy mapped out b,y the fJ:tthers fo~ the auministration of guvernmentn.I affairs. In doing so I shall ask you to keep in mind at all times that OUJ• Government was not organized for the purpose of conducting, operating, and managing a •• business concern " in tlle modern acceptance of that term. Have we kept faith with the fathers of the Republic? Has the Con titution been to us a pillar of fire by night and a cloml by day?

When we dec1ared our independence the Omfederacy di<l not O\Yn any country. The several States owned all the. country .. Their boundaries were not where they, ax~ now.. The first terlitory owned by the Federal Government came· from the State of Virginia ami was known as the Northwe t Territory.

The first Congress in 17"89', whic1,1 su! UJJder the Constitution, passed laws for its government. A poficy was immediately institute<l for the settlement of tllis Terrlto.ry, aml people from the thirteen States were encouraged to go. tltere. Congress from time to time made provision for the admission of new States into the Union. The. States of Miebigan. Indiana, Wisconsi~ and part of the State of Ohio were formed out of this Territory. The land and all its :resources. generally speaking, were divided among the people, and each State was. guaranteed a representative form of government. These Stutes were placed upon the same basis as the thirteen original States, so far as property and property rights were concerned. The public domain was di tTibuted among the people without reservation and for nominal sums. The Federal Government. did not <lo this for profit or as a business concern, but far the pirrposes set forth in the preamble to the Constitution.

The State of Kentucky was formed out o.f territory ceueu to the Federal Government presumahly by- t:Jle. State of Virginia. The State of Tennessee was forrueti out of territory ceded to the Federal Government by North Caro:ina~ The States.of Mississippi and Alabama were formed out of territory ceded to the Federal Government by the State of Georgia. In all the e instances the land and the resources were tl'istributed among the people, and each State "~s. granted a repubUean form of go\"ernment. ·

The individuals who obtained this land derived abt;;olute title from the Government. The taxes paid ~ the owners went to the munieipalities, townshi~ counties, or States)· and not to the Federal Government. The Government was not running or managing a business concern in dea!lng out all of. this tand.

In 1803 the Federal Government purchased fl·om France what was then known as the Louisiana Territory. It included the present States of Louisiana~ ArkanRas, l\llssouri, Iowa. Minnesota, Kansas, Nebraska, all of Oklahoma. pa1·t of Montana, Wyoming, anti Colorndo. At the time of its- purchase a grave que.~tion arose as to whf>ther or not the United States had authority under the Constitution to purchase teiTitm·y from a foreign power.

The language of the Constitution in regard to territory belonging to the United States Is. in part.. as- follows=

Tbe Con__zyess shall have power to <lispose o! and make all needful ru1es and regulations respecting the territocy 01: other property belonging to the United States.

In other words, the Government did' not have exp1·ess power to purehase territory from a foreign power ttecause the authority granted in the Constitution simply referred to " territor~ or other property belonging to the United States.u '

President Jefferson realized that in neg(}tiating for this ter-ritory-Louisiana Territory-and making p.ro.v_ision for its purchase he, as President, had no expr~ constituEionaJ authority.

In a letter addressed to l\lr. Breckinrfdg~ who was Attorney General in President Jefferson's Cabinet, iTh discussing the purchase o.f this territory, be made th,e following statement:

But I suppose they cmst then appeal to the Nation for an additional article to the Constitution, approving a:nd confirming as- act which the Nation bad not previously auth&riz('('l. Tbe Constitution bas made no provision for our holding foreign t:Prrttory, still li>SS. tor incorpor.:tting foxeign nations into our Union. The Ex~utiv~ Ul, seizing the fugitive occurrenc(' which so mucb advances thl:' good of theft· country, have don~ an act beyond the Constitution. Tbeo lPgislatur~ in casting bl:'htrut them metaphyskal subtleties and risking tlie~lves lik~ fnitbful servants, must ratify and pay for it, and· thraw themselves ou their country for doing for them unantho-rizt'd whnt we know they would have done for thPm&elves bnd they been m a mtuatj'(Jn to do it. It is the case of a guardian· inwsting the money or his ward in pnrebasing un important adjaeE>nt territory, and saying to him wben of age, I did this fo.r yoUJ' good r I p~·etend to no right to hind you i y<m mny disavow me and I must get uut of the serape as 1. can. 1 thought lt my duty to risk myself for you. But we shill not be disavowed by :f nation, and

'

8354 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. NovEl\fBER 11,

their n<'t of indrmnity will confirm anU not weaken the Constitution by more l'ltrongly marking out its lines. (Jefferson's Works vol 4, pp 500, 501.) - • . .

The land withi.n the borders of tile State of FloriU.a was ceded to the United States by Spain in 1819-100 years ago.

The land comprised within the borders of the State of Texas was annexe<l to the United States in 1845.

The Oregon Territory, the title to which was established in the United-States in 1846, now comprises the States of Washington, Oregon, Idaho, and a part of Wyoming and Montana.

In 1848 Mexico ceded to the United States the territory out of '\Ybich was carved a part of the States of New Mexico, Colorado, and Arizona and the States of California Nevada and Utah. ' '

In 1853 we purchased of Mexico the territory 'Yhich is now included within the borders of the States of Arizona and New Mexico. This was known as the Gadsden purchase. ·

In all these instances, in acquiring this property, it must be obser-ved that the object and purpose of the United States Go-vernment was not to establish a business concern.

All this territory once owned by the United States has been formed into separated States, and each State has tieen granted a republican form of government. The land and the resources of a11 this territory has been largely divided among the States or the people thereof. ·

Large tracts of our western land were turned o-ver to certain railway companies in order that our transportation facilities might be improved, but the Government has never attempted to permanently operate the railways because of that fact.

The land was given to them outright, with perhaps the exception in some instances of reservations in regard to minerals and oil.

It may be contended tllat we are now operating a railroad in Alaska, which, in a measure, is true. And yet in the act to locate, construct, and operate railroads in the Territory of Alaska it is provided for the leasing and disp?sition of the same.

The Government has not inaugm·ated a permanent policy toward tile railroads of Alaska, and if Alaska- ever becomes a State of the Union I venture the assertion that the railways .of Ala ka will be turned over to private ownership, operation, ann management.

The whole trend of .our history has been to guard against the Government of the United States engaging in business. Congress has studiously avoided embarking upon any business enterp1ise. The management and operation of business concerns has been left to the States or the people thereof.

The present railway bill that we are now considering is constructed in accordance with the traditions of the Republic and in harmony with the provisions of the Constitution, thus keeping in mind that the framers of that instrument never in any manner contemplated that the United States Government should ever be turned into a great business concern. [Aoolause.l

1\Tt·. SANDERS of Indiana. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous con ~·ent to revise and extend my remarks in the RECORD.

Tlt CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Indiana asks unanimous consent to revise and extend his remarks in the RECORD. Is tllere objection? [After a pause.] The Chair hears none.

:l\1r. SIMS. Mr. Chairman, I 3•ield 30 minutes to the gentleman from Maryland [Mr. CoADY], a member of the committee.

1\Ir. COADY. 1\Ir. Chairman and gentlemen, :t; was pleased beyond expression when I read i~ this afternoon's paper that the miners' strike had been called off, and I was especially pleased at the statement issued by 1\fr. Lewis, the acting president of the United Mine Workers, which I want to read into the REcORD a follows: '

Gentlemen, we will comply with the mandate of the court. We do ~e~f.der protest. We are Americans. We can not fight om· G~n·ern·

What stronger evidence than this can there .be, 1\Ir. Chairman aml gentlemen, of the loyalty and patriotism of the workers of this country? [Applause.] Unquestionably, they have respect for law and authority. I believe we have treated them fairly in this bill. We have sought to be fair not only to them but to the employers of labor. -

One of the distinguished members of our committee, my colleague [1\!r. WINsLow], himself a large employer of labor, said that whenever he had any difficulties with the men in his employ he never failed to iron out and settle those difficulties when as he expressed it, " He got them around the mahogany and rubbed nose.-; with them." That is what we want to do with the laboring men of this country to-day-get them around the table rub noses with them, and talk with them. Good results are su~·e to flow from :an honest and fmnk interchange of opinions.

There are radical elements in some of the organizations but I do not lJelie-ve such elPments are in control. Radical el~i:nents

in every organization, as a rule, are composed of the loudmouthed men, the men who make the most noise. nut after all I have an abiding f~th in: the common sense and good' judgm~nt of all of the people of th1s country, the workers as well as the employers.

I listened with a great deal of interest to-day, and a great deal of pleasure, to the eloquent speech made by my friend and col~engue on the committee, Gov. SANDERs, of Louisiana·. I think he 1s unduly alarmed about the effect of this bill'on water transportation. If you will read the bill you will find that such• transport~tion is specially exempted. I shall not attempt to answer h~ any further, because his namesake, the gentleman from Indiana [Mr. SAl\l)ERS], I think' answered his argument completely. ' ·

The railroads ~ere. taken oyer by the -Government only because of the emergencies growmg out of th_e war. The Federai c~mtrol ac~ expressly declared that it was emei·gency legislatiOI~, a?~ It was not to be construed as 'ei'ther -eXpressing or preJudicmg the future policy of the Government tegarding public ownership of the railroads.

Every thinking mn.~ knows, however, that their economical and successful operation would have resulted in a demand for Government ownership and operation, not only from those who ~lways fav:_ored it., ~ut also from the general public, who are mter~sted m obtammg such plan of control and operation that prom1ses the best results.

The overwhelming sentiment of the people is for the immediate return of these vast properties to their owners for their priyate. operation, due to the failure of the present operation. This frulure, howe-ver, is not due to any inefficiency of management, but to the inherent weakness of governmental operation I do not believe that the people ever wanted. public ownership. and their experience since the ro-ads were taken over ha~ strengthened their conviction in this regard.

Government ownership and control are not in the real interest of the _shippers, employees, or general. public. They tend to destroy pr1vate enterprise and initiative. Private ownership and management, with strict but fair governmental supervision and regulation, will conduce to the best interests of the people and the railroads, provided, of course, the roads are accorded and encouraged by better treatment than they have heretofore received. Expe1:ience has demonstrated the wisdom of such a policy.

The bill, H. R. 10453, presented by the Committee on Interstate. and U:oreign Commerce; has been framed only after extended hearmgs and after a full and exhaustive discussion by the committee of all phases of the important questions it seeks to settle. · I believe it is a good bill, and I shall support it.

In addition to t)le section dealing with disputes between the . carriers and their employees there·are two other important matters dealt with, namely, the refunding of the indebtedness of the railroads to the United States and the matter of rate making.

The provision written in this bill for refunding the indebtedness of the roads to· the Government arising out of transactions during Federal control ·is not only fair to the carriers as it should be, but it is absolutely necessary if we do not want to see some of ·them badly crippled and others driven to the wall.

It would be unfail· and would seriously impair the stability of the roads to force them to pay at once to the Government the money advanced for additions and improvements. It is out of the question for them to do this and to meet their ordinary operating charges and expenses.

And to cripple the roads would be a serious thing for tlte country and its industries.

In this connection we must not lose sight of the fact that when the roads go back to those who own them they will be burdened with expenses far in excess of those under private control, due to increased wages and the high cost of mate1·ials.

Now, as to rates and rate making, the raih·oad companies are entitled to a fair and adequate return for the service they perform ; and the shipper and people are entitled to good service and the assurance that they are to be dmrged for such service only whaf it is reasonably worth. The provislqns of this bill take care of both these matters. We want to see the carrier prosper. Unless it does, it can not give good and efficient service to the public and the shippers and pay its employees the wages to which they are entitled. · I believe the public is willing to pay rates adequate for this, and I ain convinced all this can be accomplished without imposing more than fair and equitable rates. ·

Itates must be sufficient to enable the railroad to continue, to keep its -credit, to attract new capital, improve, and expand. The public interests require this.

1919. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 8355 America llas the g1·eatest -and best railroad system . in the

world. The roads of no other country are in the ::;arne class with ours.

Let us maintain t.heir high standard of service, and tllis we can do only by passing legislation designe<l to help and not tlestroy them. - .

The Cummins amendment to the comme1·ce act cllanged the law affecting the liability of a water carrier. Th1s law had been on our statute books for many years. I was told by Senator CuMMINs it was nGt his intention to re!)eal tQ.is old statute which confine the liability of the carrie1· to the value of the vessel and the. money derived from the freight. In this bill we amend the Cummins ·Act so as to restore the old marine statute I have ju. t referred to.

\Ve l1ave been fair to tlle so-called short-line railroads, which bave complaiued that they have not received fair tre?-tment from the trunk-line roads in a division of through rates.

We give to the Interstate Commerce Commission power to fix such a division on its own initiative. These small roads should get fair and considerate treatment in division of joint through rates. '£hey should be encouraged. They help iu the development of the country and they stimulate traffic. [Applause.] ·

Mr. ROBSION of Kentucky. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield?

The CHAIRMAN. The time of the gentleman from Maryland has expired.

Mr. SI~fS. · 1\.Ir. Chairman, I yield 20 minutes to the gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. DEWALT], a member of the committee.

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Pennsylvania is recognized for 20 minutes.

:Mr. DEW ALT. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, it undoubteilly sounds like a truism to say that the bill now under consideration is perhaps one of the most important that ~s Congress· will have in contemplation of passage. · The importance of the bill arises from various circumstances. When the Government took under its control the transportation systems of the country, it was a matter of urgent necessity, and even then it · w~ a matter of doubtful expediency, so far as profit was concerned, and the result has 8hown that instead of being profitable, it was a dead loss to the Government. Therefore, from a financia~ point of view, it is absolutely necessary that something be done either to keep on with Federal control under <lifferent circumstances and perhaps enlarged supervision, or it becomes nec~ssnry to retuTn these roads to private ownership with incrf>ased supervision on the part of the Government through the Interstate Commerce Commission. That feature of importance, of course, we all recognize. Then there are other matters of great necessity which must impel every thinking ma1;1 in the consideration of tl1is bill to .take them . under consideration. The transpor·ta tion system is akin to the arteries and ·veins in the human body, these lines are the circulating medium of commerce; and if they be impeded or broken, .commerce either stops or is so impeded that the great public is damaged thereby, an<l therefore the interests of 110,000,000 people are at .stake with regard to. tl1is piece of legislation.

Now, those 110,000,000 people consist of various elements. The public at large, of cour e, includes them all. But we have 2,000,000 workmen on these railroads, and this constant demand for higher wages by the employees of the various transportation ~ines constitutes a question which is constantly agitatiug the Congress, and constantly-disturbing the business interests of the country. That should be settled, and settled definitely, if we are · to have business prosperity and business soundness. Then the shippers of this country, almost countless in numbers. have their great interests to be considered, and .corl'elative with the shippers are the consumers of the })roducts which they ship.

Then added to that is the Government itself. Regardless of the fact that it represents the great population of 110,000,000, the Government itself, through the Interstate Commerce Commission, has regulated and supervised this transportation system for a number of years, and the question has always been and is now whether that supervision should be extended, revised, made more lax, or made more imperative. And then added to all these features that I have tried to suggest to this committee is another great feature, and that is the financial interest of this country. And when I speak of the financial interests I do not mean Wall Street; I do not mean those engaged stt:_ictly in the buying and selling of railroad securities. I mean the people who own the stock and bonds of the various railroadlll, because in large measure the prosperity of the people in this country is dependent upon the st~b~lity of those very issues -of stocks and

L ·-rni--.527

bond.·, and therefore it becomes ueces~ary in the consideration of this measure to determine if possible bow this stability can be secured, and if it bas deteriorated. hmv it can be promote<l and made more secure.

-Now, this bill, in wy bumble judgment, meet in Jnrge mC'asure tl1ese various circumstances that I have tried to portray to you; and in passing let me say thi: -and I am quite sure, althongh I am a member of the minority si<le of this committee, that I voice the unanimous sentiment of the committee in the opinionthat the labors of the chairman and of the gentlemen who corlaborated with him as members of the subcommittee have been so urgent, have been so sincere, not only as to time but as to energy., and the results to the committee itself hu ve beeu ·o satisfactory, that unbounded, un tinted praise should be gh·en to Chairman E scH and the gentlemen of · the subcommittee. [Applause.]

There are certain features of this bill that do not meet the unanimous approval of the committee. There is room for honest difference of opinion. But, taken as a whole, the structure, ~J;lflst it may not be a ·complete and satisfactory solution of the problem, goes in gre.at measure to establishing what I belie-ve to be the soundness of purpose and · sta~ility in regard to the management of the railroad transportation of the country.

In order that one might lucidly explain the provisions of this bill, more time should be given than I have requested, and I know too well the temper of this House to endeavor in any way to tire it by a prolix: or a lengthy discussion either of the merits or of the supposed demerits of the bill. But there are certain outstanding features in the bilL which to my mind nre the pivotal things in it-those which should command, . and I think will command, the most earnest attention of the Honse itting in the Committee of the ·whole.

Now, what are those outstanding features? First, we establish in this bill what is called a guaranty fund. What do we mean by a guaranty fund, and why_should there be a ·guaranty? Any~ one who k;nows anything about the situation, although he may perhaps be blind to the present emergency ·and necessity, if be has read and studied and observed with an impartial mind, must come to· the conclusion that the transportation systems of the country, if they be returned on the 1st 9ay of January next, are bound of necessi_ty to require help. That arises from the . fact that theh·· orgaruzation has been disturbed; their transportation system has been diverted; short lines have been. mingled with trunk lines; traffic h~s been diverted from one system of short lines to· another, occasioned by the necessities of the Government during the war period; the official forces of the various railroad companies have been changed from timP. t"o time; superintend~nts of -this or that division have been relegated to a different portion of the country, or perhaps t.o a different portion of the system itself-and all this requires reorganization. 'Ve know, too, that great betterments and improvements have been made from time to time at the behest and dictates of the Government, occasioned by the war nece .. sity, and this bas entailed a large amount of expense upon the railroad companies themselves. And therefore it ~ecomes a!Jso-· lutely necessary, unless there be an immediate change of the rate system-:enlarging the rates, increasing them-that these railroads shall have something to depend upon during a periou,perhaps, as we stated, for at least six months after the ter- . ruination of Federal control.

Therefore we have established in this bill what we cnll a guaranty fund. Now, what is the guaranty fund? It provides that for a period of six months after the termination of Federal

--control there shall be paid to the various railroad cop.1panies, if they desire to avail themselves of it, the standard return as established during the test period, which time, however, expires on June 30, 1917, being the years during which the test period . . as we call it, is to be formed. Now, the test period consists of three periods of slx months, which are the corresponding six months severally mentioned, in the time during which the guaranty is to be SfJUght or obtained by the various railroad companies. Therefore ''"e start out with this proposition, that when Federal control.ceases, if it does cease on the 1st day of January, 1920, these railroad companies w~l be assured, if they desire to avail themselres of it, of a guaranty of the standard return as fixed by the test period of three several six months, corresponding to the time during which they t·equest it, of the standard return as established during the time prior to June, 1917. I take it that nothing could add more to the stability of business; nothing could assure the public more earnest.ly of the intent of Congress to make certain that the railroad companies will not be obliged either to go into the hand~ of recei:vers or to labor under distres:o;ing circumstances durilig thi.c; preliminary

·: ~

CONGRESSION.~.-L\.:L RECORD-HOUSE. NOVEMBEB 11,

period of six. month~. Some of llie gentlemen in the co!lllllittee Now, I was about to refer to- this question of rates. One of argnc<.l and some of the railroad officlals argued that the time the mooted matters in the committee-and I am not disclosing was uot long enougll. Others, again, argued that it was-too fong, any committee secrets-was this question of the super·vision arfd others took the ultra view that there should be no guaranty and regulation of rates. Some of the membership of the com· at all. The committee, either in their. wisdom or perhnps in mittee went so far as to say that the initiation of rates should tlieh; di creti.on, if we call it by a milder name, sought the middle be lodged in the Interstate Commerce Commission. That in ground and established. fui~ guaranty during the period of six itself would have been a complete subva·sion of all the premouths, as·I have tried to detail to you. scribed forms and rules of rate making that we have esta.O·

'V have anotha· . very important feature in tile bill, which fished for a great number of years. i ·. called the refunding feature. What do you mean by re- Th~ initiation of rates pro)?erly, in the judgment of the com-funding? ·. . mittee, should be lodged iD the companies themselves. And

A ·. L said a fe-w moments ago there wa: a vast amount of the reason for that is this: That the needs of different transl>ette:rments and improvements which were macfe for the various portation line ·, be they large or small, be they regional or transrailroad companies nt the demand of the Government itself continental, or be they only short lines, are ·best known to the neces:: ita ted by the. w.n..r period. These betterments and im· management of the eompan.ies themselves. Therefore the ini· provements ai·e cha.rged up to · the raih·oad companie . The tiation of the rates should be lodged in the companies. But railroad companies have certain moneys to obtain from the after the initiation takes place, then the regulation or superGovernment on n.ccount. of the standard return. The railroad vi ion, either by complaint or by application; should be tinder companies in turn owe the Government money for these better- the supervision of the body constituted for a great nuJl!b~r of ment ·· and improvements, and. some of the gentlemen on the years and which has given great ati fa~tlon, to wit, the Intercommittee said, '"Let there be a casting of the aecount, a state Commerce Commission. triking of the. balance, and if the Government owes more to But the complaint from a great many people is and hn.s been

the railroad companies than the railroad companies in turn that the Interstate Commerce Commission, while it has an inowe to the Government, let the balancE:) be struck, and then let fiexible rule, as they call it; namely, that all rat shall be just the accounting be had in that way/'. Othe1·s, again, took the and reasonable. and shall .not be unjust or discruninatory, view that the betterments and improvement were of such nevertheless this same body, according to the allegations of great amoimt that it would be a. hardship and almost an im- some, has never taken into consideration some of the constitpo ·sil>ility financially for many of .these companies to raise the uent elements that should go to make up the rates. money to pay for theso ette.J:ments and !mprovements imme- In other words, it has been the complaint of men who '\YOrked <Jiatel r: upon railroads that when they go to the · superintendent or the

Wllat, then~ was- the·.solution of the problem? If gentlemen management of the raiir'oad company and say that they dE-sire a uuring the reading of this bill wiD' turn to page 9, section 205, larger wage, the management in times of pea-<;e has said that they will find ~e fol1owing: they woUld be very glad to do that, but they are bound bY the

The indebt('dnPs of any carrfer corporation tQ the United ~tates Interstate Commerce Commission, and the Interstate· Comexisting.· at the termination ot Federal control incurred for additions ·merce Commission, although it says that it does take into conor betterments made during Federal control 011 for ad ''ances made by ·s:ideration the scale of }Vages of the employees, nevertheless the United 'States or incurl'ed to pay off any carrier'& indebtedri:ess, · neve• has done so, and therefore we can not raiSe YOtlr W" 2:e~. nnd properly chnr...,eable to e:_1pital a.ccount. sball, at the request of "'~ · -tM <:arrier, be extend~>d ror a pPriod ot 10 years. ox a shorter period, ~ow. be that true or untrue, be it ju tor unjust, the complaint at the ·carrier's option, with. interest" at the· same. r&te per annum has ,been made, and therefore this committee again, in its dis~d~;f ~;t!-'o?~cr.w President ru; reaso.nable m:i.der seetion 4. of the cr . ..~ n, perhaps not in its . wisdom-because no committee, in

The original provi ion of the bill were that, these cru·riers iny tDPinion, claims to be all wise, and- I know the modesty o{ shou.d pay 6 per cent for this extension of time so to be had, the.~~ha_ir_man and the modesty as well of the members of the but we found that under the provisions .of the Feder.al control subeoiDIDltteE>-I know they do not claim to be all wi e, and we act the President had the right to fix the- rate of interest, a:nd have esta.bli heel in this bill not onlY the general rule that rates that he had fixed the rate of interest fn some specific cases at 5 shall . be jti.st and rea onabie, and they shall not b-e unjust and per cent. He ha the undoubted right under the autnority of di criminatory; but we have said in making up this rule in law to fix the rate of interest at 4i or 5! .or 6 per cent or more regard to rates, the Interstate Commerce Commission shan take if he o choose : Therefore the committee, in its discretion, into consideration what? Turn to page 65, and you will find thought it was no more than fair to say that if the railroad the language, as follows: companies owed the Government for · these betterments and im- In reaching its conclusions as to the justness and reasonableness of any rate, fa:re, charge·, classification. regulation, or practice tb com-provements, and they received this extension of time fur a mission shall take into consideration the interest of the pubJlc, the ship- · period of 10 years,. or a shorter time if they so desired, they pers, the reasonable co t of maintenance. and operation (Including the

h ld th t f ' t t 4' th ao· H, W8geS Of labor, d£preciation, and taXeS), aDd a fair return upon the s ou . pay e same r~ e o m eres t.O · e- vernment LLL.at l value- of the property use.d or held tor the service of transportation. the Government paid to them for any amount Gf money whi.ch : Not an property that is held by the companies, not the rigllts the Government owed. Mr. OLIVER. Will the gentleman yield? of way that are not u ed, not hetels which are built for railroad

Mr. DEW ALT. Certainly. companies to use for hotel purposes, not for property that is held by railroad <!Ompanies in perpetnlty, perhaps, and never to

Mr. OLIVER How is that baian<!e secured~ and what teps be used for transportation purposes, but a fair valuation upon have been taken by the committee to give prierity to that bat- the property used in transportation service. That, coupled with ance over existing or subsequent mortgages? the needs- of the shipper, the needs of the public, with a fair

Mr. DEW ALT. In short, the provision is this: The Secretary allowance for wages and taxes· and just depreciation, in the of the Treasru·y and the Interstate Commerce Commission have the right to examine, first the stability of the road, and things ' judgment of the coiilil'littee or a majority thereof was the rule of· that kind, in all their minutire, and then to demand secnrities ' by which this rate-making should be fixed. Witll that I leave

: the bill with you. [Applause.] which are to be approved by him in regard to these matters. · Mr. 'VHITEl of 1\Iuin.e. Will the gentleman vield for a ques-

The CHAffiM..A.N. The time. of the gentleman has expired·. tion? "~ Mr. DEWALT. 1\fay ffut.ve 10 minutes.s more? Mr. DEWALT. I will if I have the time. Mr. SI!\tS. r yield to the gentleman 10 minutes. Mr. DEW ALT. I know you will pardon me for asking for The CHAIR1\1AN. The gentleman has two minutes re-

additional time, not becau e I fiatter myse:f that you have any maining-nr,. ,.,..,~ desire to listen to me, bnt because when one becomes interested Mr~ WHITE of Maine.· I want to ask if there is any legal in a ubject of this kind and attempts, ev-en in the meager way definition anywhere of what constitutes property used or held in which I am attempting, to explain some <Jfthe provisions ofthcf for service of transportation? b'l1 th · lid b "dl ""'~ 20 · ; Mr. DEW ALT. I suppose that is a technical term in rail·

1 • e time g Es. Y so rap1- Y L.LUI.t · minutes e:q)lre even . roadin2'. The meaning of it was this, as I tried to state: There before you have time to take your breath. ~

1\fr. DENISON. Will the gentleman yield? is a great deal of property held- by railroad companies which is Mr. DEWALT~ Yes. not being presently used fm· tnmsportation pm1)oses; what we ~lr. DENISON. · I refer the gentleiDa.n from Pennsylvani-a. to mean is engineSi cars, roadbed, a.nd so forth, terminals, stations,

line 15, page 10, which gives the nnswer to the question pro- and things necessary· in transportation service. ded b th t1 f Alab n.r.. 0 ] Mr. WHITE of Maine. Of cour ·e, in the latter years rail-

po~- DE~~T:eny;::-n rom runa L.u.u:. LIVER-· roads. under the- direction of the· State commi sions and other regulatory bodi~ have mac-le an expenditure of one kind and

Such indebtednt> ·s shan 1!~ eviden{!ed, if practlcabl~, by the. first- " nother. They have built "labornte stations, nnd appr;o!'cll""'S to m{)rtgage bonds of the earner ; but if this 18' lmpmencable, then in .... ~ u "' such practicable form fi!'l ball be- presc-cibed 'by· the Presid:en:t . the e have been included.

1~19. _ CONGRESSIONAL~ RECOl{,D-:-:-ROUSE. 8357 .:\ir. DEWAl .. T. Ye.~ ; they ·naturally go _into the transporta

tion sen ice. You can not tran. port · freight and passengers unless ·on -llfiYc terminal stations from ·and to ·which you carry them.

}Jr. WHITE of Maine. Yes; and on the other hand a railroad :statiou which cost. the carrier $50,000 will bring in as mu~b busine~s ns one tl1at co. ts $500,000.

_Jt·. DEWALT. That is true. A striking example can be ailed to , our miull. You know that under the land grants

gh·eu the railroaus-20 miles on each side, in order that the railroau .. might be built-those companies in a large · mea~re yet own a portion of these lands. They are not used for transportation senice, n.nd therefore you could not include them in fait· Yaluation.

~Jr. <~ALLAGHER. Is it not a fact tllat these tet·minal com parries are organized witll a different class of stockholders entirely?

Mr. DE' T ALT. ::\!any of them are, but not all of them. :Ur. RAYBURN. Mr. Chairman, I yield one minute to the

gentleman from New Jersey [Mr. McGLE:SNON]. .:\Jr. ~IcGLENNON. Mr. Chairman, I rise to announce that

we have in the gallery to-night a distinguished visitor, Governor-elect Edwards, of New Jersey. [Applause.]

.:\Ir. WINSLOW. 1\lr. Chairman, I yield 30 minutes to the . gentleman from Washington [Mr. WEBsTER].

Mr. WEBSTER. Mr. Chairman, after the maste1·ly i.illalysis au<l explanation of the measure now under consideration, by the <listinguished chairman of the committee having it in charge; followed by the other excellent remarks submitted by more experienced Members, it would involve presumption on my part to mHlertake any general (li~cussion of its provisions. Speaking broadly, I may say that I am· in accord with most of the salient provisions of the bill. In voting for the measure in committee, hmrevcr, it was with a distinct understanding that I might, without exposing myself to any charge or suspicion of impropriety, oppose the provisions of Title III dealing with disputes between carriers and their employees, and offer something in their stead. · ·

In the vast amount of thinking upon the problem of what ~llall be done witll these ever-increasing disputes there seem to have been developed two general lines of thought. One has as its central iden the constitution of certain tribunals fairly, impartially, and hone tly made up, to which the parties must go with their differences and to whose arbitrament they must submit. Accompanying this plan is the thought that, having established a fair and impartial tribunal, the right to strike should be denounced as unlawful and that the employees should be subjected to the penalty of a violated. law if they see fit thereafter to exercise that claimed privilege. The other genet·al line of thought has as its fundamental principle the establishment of tribunals to which the disputant parties may, if they plea. e, ·submit their controversies, and whose award may or may not be accepted, ns the parties may elect.

I am constrained to believe that in this instance, as in most cases, the truth is to be found in the medium between extremes, and I ba\e endeavored hurriedly to outline the provisions of a substitute, whlch I propo c to otier at the proper time, for Title III of th bill as reported by the committee.

When oue comes to discuss Ute· theory involving compulsory arbitration and denying, limiting, or qualifying the right to .-trike, be is at once confronted with the argument ad~anced by the brotherhoods and others that such a measure ·would be violati~e of the Federal Constitution. They rest this contention primarily upon the provisions ef the amendment written into the Constitution of this country as the result of the war of sections, and they assert with great Yehemence that it is not within the power of Government to deny to any individual the right "to cease work." -

There can be no clear thinh."ing upon this problem, l\fr. Chairman, unle s you bear in mind the fact that there is a vast distinction between the right to cease one's employment and the right to strike. The rigllt to cease one's employment means just what the words imply-the right to quit work whenever it . ·uit" tile individual for any rea on or for no reason at all; but a ~trike, Mr. Chairman, is where a body of men engaged. in common employment cease work at or about the same time pursuant to a previous agreement expres ly or tacitly entered into for the purpo. e of coercing compliance with their demands, but with the intention all the while of returning to their employment when their object is attained.

No constitution, State or Federal, with which I am familiar either expressly or impliedly guarantees to any man the right to strike. However, we do find in the organic law of the Nation a guaranty of the right to life, liberty, property, reputation, and happiness. Yet we sec . the Government establishing tribunals

Umitlng those rigl1ts, and I -ask tlle question, What halo is thereabout the head of this claimed. right to stiike not lllf'ntioned in any constitution t.hat removes it from the sphere of governmental regulation? [Applause.] If -you or I violate the law of our land, and the penalty for that violation is that we shall forfeit our Ute, there is a tribunal of goYernment established to which we must go, and we are not permitted to choose any one of its membet·s. Tltey are chosen rather because they bate no. interest in and no knowledge of the case. You go to that tribunal not voluntarily but by command of the Govel·nment. You submit_ that important right to that tribunal, and you are bound by its decree. _If you arc engaged in some unlawful enterprise whiCh violates a criminal statute, the punishment for : which is confinement in prison, your constitutionally guaranteed freedom is involved, and yet you are compelled to go to organized tribunals of government and have your right to liberty passed upon by yow· fellows.

If the shelter that protects your wife and offspring is about to be taken from over your head u110n some claim or other that your title is defective, do you assert your right of property at the end of a shotgun or by the use of a bludgeon? No; you go to established tribunals of the Government with your case, and you abide by their decisions. If the sanctity -of your home is invaded, if your own honor or the honor of a member of your family is called in question, you are compelled to seek relief in a court of justice and be bound by its judgment. If there. is one thing that inheres in nature, it is that a man should have the conb·ol and dire('tion of hls own offspring. Yet the Government, exercising its-pmvers for the protection of the general welfare, sets up a tribunal the power of which may extend· to the point of taking from you your only child and putting it in stranger hand;~, even denying you the right of visitation. Yet when it comes to the right to strike, the exercise of which may involve misery and suffering in every home in this land, we arc told by the specious advocates of the doctrine of the right to quit work that the power of Government has ·ceased; that \Ye

. are impotent to do anything in the way of limiting this sacred privilege; that we must stand mute and helpless while ·innocent women and children starve to death on hearths that are cold !n order that this hideous monster may have its brutal will!

I say to you, my colleagues, that if you have $10,000 and you are pleased to invest it in a farm, the Government does not undertake to tell you how you shall sow, when you shall reap, what crops you shall cultivate, or what you shall do with your produce. The public interest is sufficiently protected in that case hy the intuitive desire of the individual to get the best possible results from his etiorts. ·

But if you take that $10,000 and invest it in railroad securitietl it immediately becomes impre sed with a trust in the public interest. By virtue of that fact the Government lays the ltaud of the law upon it and undertakes to and, . in fact, doe~ regulate it with due regard for the general welfare. You are told what your rights shall be. You are given directions in great particularity of detail, and your property to many intents aml purposes is beyond your individual control. I assert that by the same token when men voluntarily seek employment in the interstate transportation of this countt·y they, too, should be Impressed with a trust in the public interest, and they should not be permitted to have a strangle hold upon the throat of the American people. [Applause.] Neither does it meet the ca e to shout involuntary servitude--sla\·ery! Any man engaged in railroad employment may cease his work when he pleases. But if the Government defines the laborer's rights in that employment, and he wlllingly and of his own accord embarks upon or continues in suell service, how can it be said that he is compelled to submit to involuntary servitude? I submit, Mr. Chairman, that this Government is not impotent in this situation. The general welfare, the public interests, are paramount, and whenever any class of individuals undertakes to go counter to the public interests or the general welfare that class mu t be restrained, else you must subscribe to the doctrine that a part is greater than the whole. [Applause.] I am willing to take what meaget• reputation I may have as a lawyer upon the proposition that there. is not one line, not otie suggestion, not one intimation, to be found in the Federal Constitution denying to the Congress the power to regulate or, if it pleases, to deny the right to strike to men engaged in interstate transportation service. Is this the time and the occasion for the exercise of such powet·? I am firmly convinced, Mr. Chairman, that the great masses of the American -people are expecting something of this Congress in this respect.

It is my belief that if we undertake to deal with this question in some milk-and-honey way, we will disappoint these expectations. Yes, more; we will fail in the · ~ischarge of our duty and will expose the Corigress to the just charge of cowardice.

·I

8358 . OONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. NoVE:&IBER 11,

Let us remember in thi ~ great cri is that the paramountcy of t ministration "for ~the courageous Americn.n stand it has taken in public interest, the protection of the rights· of the Nation, m11 t this 'important crisi . [Applause.] be the .dominnting factor in 1the solutiDn of this problem. \Ve

1 In aealing with problems of this sort we should he above

are told Mr. Chairman that if we define a crime nrising out politics. When an assault is made upon the Government we of the e~ei.·cise of this pTivll-ege to strike -and ·nttach a penalty, should be AmeTieans nrst and Democrats aJ?-d Republicans afterit -will be impo ible jto enforce the law. Well, if that be true, • <Wards. It has been stated that 1\.Ir. Lewis, the leader of the the ·Government of the runited "State of .America "is impotent ' striking coal miners, sent a Yery beautiful message to the De· and worse than a f-ailure-. lf there i . ·anything to prevent the partment of Justice; but what was that message? enforcement 'Of such a law, it will be the great number of law We are :Americans. We -ean not fight om· GoTernment. ·violators in\olved; 1mt out of consitleration for the views of , .Had it not been for -the protisions of the Lever Act they woulcl

orne of :my :colleagues .with wh'Om I have discussed thls ques- not have been ii.ghting their GoYernment. Let us not forget, tion· I have undertaken to eliminate that .factor from the amena- , 1\!r. ·Clminnan, -that the Lev-er Act is a war measure and will ment which I shall propose. But if 1t is impracticable to terminate when pence is concluded. Shu~ we leave the Americnforc a law making it criminal to strike, surely it is not can people helpless in time of peace? Shall we sit here .and impracticable to require the member of these organizations ha\e tho executive · of the ~ailroad brotherhoods tell us, " Unwho ·defy the JaWs ·Of their country, and in so doing ·violate less you grant ouT demands we will tie up the railroads of this their contracts of employment, to answer in damages to the country so tight they will never rtm _again?" yet take no action party ·aggrieved ior the .harm .{lnd injury they have wrought. providing against such a calamity? Remember, my colleagues, When ·I come-to the ·consideration of the provision of the eom- 'the re-sponsibility ·foT -such a situation will rest upon youT shoul-mitte<' l ill I .find ·myself lo tin a 1.abyrinth. ders and mine if we "fail our country in thisJmportant hour.

They wind me-in and wind 'IDe out We mu t enact -some law which will enable the Government to And leave ·me _ande:ring rro1.md in doubt protect the people in the event a nation-wide railroad stlike .:As to whE>tber the snake that .made ·tbe track should be called, or the 1mblic will hold us nc:countable for our Was going homo or coming back. delinquency. In addition to that, when an act is characterized

Tl1e machinery is cumbersome, impracticable, unwieldy, .and as a crime or is bran!led ·as unlawful, any man OT any set of unduly ·expensive. tBut ii that were the only criticism 1 'ID.en committin"' that act immediately will encounter a ho&tile sh.onld .be pl-eased to rmss it .by .and SI.tY "a ::matteT ·of de- public opinion, the 'force of which will be almost irresistible. tail rests 'largely "in dudgment." "But the next thing we The provisions of -the committee bill are not sufficiently farencounter :in this bill is I that it overlooks the •fundam.ental prin- reaching to lay a -predicate for relief in a court of equity, rrnd clple that ·the public interest is l)a-rrunuunt In making up 'the they wholly overlook "the element of public opinion. ,personnel ·of the 'board of @peals -th.e ..representatives of ·the Finally, the judgment contemplated by the bill can be suUspublic are denied the privilege of voiing. Such a defect -needs ti-ed only out of ·the eommon property of the tmion. The -comno comment. iBut . thi is -not ::all. The decision rendered by mon property of the "LID ion? ·what union would be so simple a thi -tribunal is of no .binding force mld no means .are ·provided to provide a fund uut.ofwhich y:ou might compel them to answeT by ·the act to carry ·the ·udgment -into execution an!l make .it for their "Strikes:! There w.ill be "llO commun fund. There will effective. The chairman in.di..scussing this aspect of the :measure be nothing nut of which to secure -satisfaction of the judgment.

aid that, of course, a 1member of rga.nized labor :or other Likei:he 'hLc;toric apple," r.rherc won't be no CDI'e." employ-ee .should be he1d to the observance of his contractual The pro\isions of the bill, in ..my jud_gment, and I say it obligations, but to ·.D.Dnounce ·ihat principle -and stop there is with no purpose of offending do 'llot meet the . ituation in any mer ly to -announce .a self•evident .truth. ,If lle sholilcl be..held impurtant particular. answerable iiir the violation of -bis contract, why ·not 'take the ~gain, 1\Ir. • hairman, .I believe tlmt it is in the inte1·est of logical 'Dext step ana ·de · e some effective ·means :whereby he "Orderly .govern.ment-1 belie\e it is in the interest of the genmay be made answerable? <Surely it is-not impracticable rafier -e.ral welfare-that all ·human cuntrova-sies :should be -sub-ti:ike 1are · over'"11..D.c1 .end~ w.hen yon Glnve time :without Ji.mit ~ectea to the arbitrament of duly .constituted ·tribunals.

to adjust ·y_Qur differences, -to bring .men to ·-account Jn the "Civil ·Of cour e, no ·law dealing with this snbjeet ·would hav.c -any eourt .. "for "a violation of ·a contract. -claim upon the mas es of the people which did ·nut at-the 'time it

Not only is that true, 1\fr. Chairman, uu.t ·I ·preilict that the denounced ·the mike as unlawful ·substitute ·some procedm·e machinery ,set up .by .the committee -will ..fail to satisfy ~the whe1·eby dispute between employer and -employee might be laborers ·themselves. A-s ·generous ~to .their _inter..ests :-a-s I :.be- adjusted. There must be established some board, some -:comlieve it to be, as -mrmindful of .the public interests as I know mission, some institution, tu which these men ma:y _.go, hliTct it to be, it will fail to satisfy labor. :Any :attempt on the -part that institution fairly, justcy, and honestly constituted, aml of the Government -to Sil.Y to these men, ' You shall have ·some compel them to submit "their .controver:ie to it. If human re<garu for the _prrblic -welfare, ·you sha.U not go eountm· to :the beings are to be trusted in dealing with youT life and mine, inter<'. t of the masses," ;w.Hl tbe ·esented as ·an invasion ·of their witn _yom· happiness and mine, with your property and mine, righl to strike. Th-e rquestion -:therefore "for thi-s Congress .to :I srry to you that there is no reason -why -we should -recognize answer is, Will we ·meet this sitnation like ·red~blo-oded Ameri- the ..rights of a class of .individuals as being "too sacred to .be can and i.Wl'ite a ·statu.te.in the.bouk thatrwill have some teeth trusted to -human tribunals. Thuve cn!lenvored in a very shm·t in it; that-will:.PI'Dtect human life; that ill;prevent..mi..sezy and time. and under adverse cunaitions to 011tline the measure which suffering; that will mn.k.e j)l'(UlertY rsecur~ that will violate the I shall offer; and, in order that tho lll.embers may hR\e it rights of no man ·and cause no inconvenience Jo any law•re- ·before them for eonsitlerntion, I shall read it at this time. I :wecting citizen, and that -will guarantee 1he -peace, quiet, and .know that m_y amendment has one advantage over the ·comtranquillity ol' the :r:ration? - mittee bill, whatever .defects it may .have in other respects.

You suggest, ,How may thi J)e done? 33nt 1Jefore going to . "It ·will not keep _you -up 1mtil the wee mall hours to read it that ther.e is one :further observn.tinn lmsb to make . .Bear in .'It is _brief. :.r will reail .. -: mind that the ,eff-eCt rOf the decision Ten.Ched by this ;unwieldy, TITLE II1.-DIS:PU.TRS :.UEIWEE ... , c.ARlUERS AND TliEin EMPLOYEES.

cumb I:SVIDe .machinery j Jo define ' a ·.term w..hich · s to be in~ SE:c. 309. There is hereby creut:ed a bonrd compo ed of nino ·mel?l?N' , eluded in the ·contracts between the employer .and the employee, or to be known a~ the Board of Railroad Wagas a.nd W-orking Conditions, whirhi tobeconstruedasatermin:theron.tr.act. Jtiselement..'ll'Y ' hereinafter refer;·ed to as the board. '.rbe members oi"the bo~d shall 1 t~-~t t f ui::ty '11 t n..-.4- ~~ ....- f .be appointed by the President in th~ following --manner: Four -members aw r LliJ. ·cour <O eq .WJ 'llO ·gr..u..u. spe\.:.U.J.C ,pc.LJ..Orm.ance o ·shall -be selected from a list of nlnc names submitted to theiPresident

contracts for .personal ervices. .man has the -power, as di.s- "by the executives of the rallroau labor organlzn.tions; four members tmgni hed :from the right, :to :Violate his ~b:actual obligations .shnll ·be selected ·from "'fl. list of nine n.a.mos submitted by the executiv-es

h A .. MIY 'Of railroad -co~ies. Tile •-eight .member·s titus named shall 1meet and he .beltl :nnswerable for the tllamages ·t at ··ensue. SJ.UiCe ·within 10 days n-om the d,nte r1>f . theit· appo~ntment an? &!all at once detrimenta-l to the .JH:lbl.ic 1intere. t or which ·prevents the ·move- proceed ·to -elect .a chmrllUln who shn.ll constitute the ::runtb .member ·of mt-nt of interstate comme-rce is not tlenounced as -unlawful. :uncl the ooa:rd. If within !10 {lays .from suc:h meeting the ~embers fllil ·to

• eleet . a -chairiiUl.n as nfoTCsaid, the Pres~dent sb.all s.ppomt .a · cha~m~, JlO pruvi:sion 1n the -~ommittee bill --would ibe the basis foT inJUllC- who shall serve f.or seven ye.::tt's, :md who shall nold offico until bis tiv Telief in a c.orrrt ·af quity. ·succ.~ o1.· be -nruned and qualifred in the same m:mner as heretofore IJro-

'

r.l-. t ..... ~ Cl ·· ·h •t li ~rl .._,., • ding instituted :Tided. Two otbe:r ·members shall _ be appoipted for a t£>rm o~ s ven l'..J1U, ~....... 18..lrnran, ! n.s Vl.U Z.c.u tL.U.e ;procee s years each; the•other .m1mlbers sba.ll bo appo~teil foo.· ,tm"m.S-;of.SJ.X, !'five.

~ nu maintained by the F~eral •.Government in its :effort to 'deal four, three, two, and l>ne years as the .P.re . ident _mny de Ign.:rtc, ..and with f.he unthinkabl0 ·.coa1 strike.? lVha.t celement ·vitalizes .those all up1Jolutment or reappointments thereafter -slmll be J'OT even years.

·proeeecl :.-.us, .I a k? Is ~ it not 1tb.e :element of .illegality a..tising anu each member shall hold hls office ontiJ his uccesso1· 1Je name~'Jo::uul Ui>6 qunli.fied All -vaeaneies hall .be .fille-d . in ·tl1e .·rune m.anner a ort~lnal out or a violation ·of the provisions of the ,ever ..Act, wlli.cll uppointnlents. Nnt more than five member ·ut :tho ooaril hap bo

chn.nictetizes "the a.et .in which i'these ·n1en are tengaged as nn- ~mbers ·l>f tho -s:rme 'J}olificru party. 'Th<> el!a'innan -::hall rect>we a .lB.:wful? .And J .£eel !l:lurt 1: would -fail in .nnr .Anrertcanis:m if Jl . -sruarv of . 12.000 ·un<l , aeh membru· ball -:rect>I':e a salary of ; ~ ~o.oou

~ per :inn urn. :togctller itlt _1 he :nee sru·y Jra el1.ng :expenses ' hile , ()11 .dlu not take ·a<lxantlrgo !Of-this <opportunity to ay ihat my "llll- 1he · rhargc of .Dffickl1 ttnties, :o T::tte from iu trtkmg th oatil · or

. bounded nclm1't1rtion and Tespect ·g.oes ;out to the -:pre ent .ad- .lOffire.

1919 .. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 8359 S.F.c. 301. The board is hereby authorizE>d and {'ropowered. in all

cac of <lif'put~ between any eommon carrier by railroad engaged in interstate commerce, subjE-ct to the act to regulatE> eommprce, a.Dd its employees as to wages, terms, and conditions of employment, hours of se~·viCt:', or working conditions, after full hE.>aring to prescribe what is, or may be for tbe fnture, the just and reasonable wages, terms, and conditwns of employmPnt, boors of service, or working <'Onditions. and to issue an order to socb carrier to comply witb och decision of tlle boar·d ; and ncb ('arrier shall conform to socb ordPr or rpquirement and shall not dE.>part from thE> conditions so prescritwd ; sueb•order to r main in effrct untU fUJ•ther order of the board. Th.P board may, upon com{>laint of any interested party or UJ?OD its own motion, suspend or modify its findings and order aftE-r giV!ng notice l'bPrt-of to tbe lntere ted parties in r~rson, if practicable, otherwise by publication.

The CHAIRMAN. The time of the gentleman from Washing-ton has expired. ·

l\Ir. WEBSTER. Mr. Chairman, may I have a brief extension . o that I may finish the reading?

Mt·. WINSLOW. Mr. Chairman, I yield five minutes more to the gentleman.

Mr·. WEBSTER. It provides furtl1er : SEc. 302. The board shall have power to make its own rules of pro

cedure, summon witnesses, administer oaths, order the production of documents dE.'PID d uece sury by it in any dL pute. and E>mploy a secretary, attomeys, and !lther persons nE.'ce..c:;sary to the execution of its power; and the board Is authorizPd to usP and continue tbe serv1ces and authority o! the boards hPretoforE.> organized by the Director GE>n(>ral of Raih·oads, known a Railway A.dju-stm.,nt Boards, Nos. 1, 2, and 3, and the Board of Railway Wages and Working Conditions. Th" record , rule , and l'<'gmations madE.' and promulgatPd by the said boal'rls and their rvice may be otilizE.>d, and their rules, regulations, and dutle may be alte~d. cbangt>d, or modified by the board ereated by this act, and u11til so aJtE>rt-'d changed, or modifiPd. and, in so far as they may be d.,eiiU'd applicable, the rules and l'Pgulations promulgated by said boa.rd • heretofo~ approved by the Director <kneral of Rnilroacts, may be rontinut-d in fnll force and effPct.

SEc. 303. Wben a wage or labor dio.;pute is brought before the board hearing shall be held at the time, place, and manuPr to be determint>d by the board. Tbe board sban spt>Ntily and without delay make Its findings in writing and shall erve them on the partiPs in interest. The findings of tbc board sball be final and tbe parties thereto sball be bound thereby.

The CHAIRMAN. The time of t11e gentleman from Wa.shing-ton hus agai11 e::i.."'Jired.

Mr. WEBSTER. I can finish in five minutes. Mr. WINSLOW. I yield to tlle gentleman five minutes more. Mr. 'VEBSTER. It says further: SEc. 304. It shaH be unlawful for any group of employees to enter

upon a strike before its e<lntroversy with the E.'mployer common carrier or carriers bas been submitted to the board and until the board has made a finding thPreon. If the employer common carriel' or carliers conform to the findings of tbe board, the right of such group or groups tbereaftf'r to strike in order to obtain their demands in IssuE.' in thE' controversy thus decided by the board is hereby prohibited nnd sucb act shall be 1U1la wful.

SEc. 305. If after sucb bearing and finding of the board an employer corumon carrier Ol' carriers sholl fail or refuse to abide by such findings, sncb carrier or carriers shan be Hable for the full damage~

- to any employee, or group of employ"es, whether membt'rs of any labor union or or.,.tmizatlon o1· not, arising from sucb breach. Any labor union, or any Pmployee, or group of employE.'es, may commence and p1·ost>cute an action tor the recovery of the amount due, and in such case the court sball include in any judgment renderPd in favor of anv employee. union, organization. or· group of employ..es the costs of the nction, including a rea. on able attorney's fee, which. when recovE.'red sbaD be paid to thE> E.'mployee, group of employees, union, or organizn: tion as tbe case may be.

~Ec. 306. Any employee, group of employees, lab01· union, or organization whicb autborizf'S any mf'mber to strike or break any contract of blre fixed or approved by tbe board. or aids, abets, counsels. commands, induct'S. procures. or eon. ents to, or in any manner conspires to effect any breach of findings and conclusions of the board, shall be liable for the full damages to the t•ailroad company or companiE.>S, arising from such breach. For the purpose of enforcing such liability (1) service of process or notice may be made upon any emplovee. employPPS. rh:ef executive offiret·, or othE'r official of any labor milon or organization; (2) no action tm· sucb damagPs shall abate by reason of death, resignation, removal, or legal incapacity of any official o•· utt>mtwr of li ;ubor union or organization. or of any change in the membership thereof; (3) such action if brought again t any labot• union or organization may be prosecuted in its recognized group name; (4) the action. however, shan run against the union or organization jointly and everally against it and the members thereof, or against the employees individually as the carrier OJ' carriers mny elect-

There will be somE'thing out of which to Sc'ltisfy the judgment under my law. There will be nothing under the law which I oppose. -· Further-(5) sati taction of n.ny judgment rendered shall be made from the proper~ of the union or organization or any memb<>r or members or tbe otrPnding union, or from tbe property of any offending employee or group of employePs suPd by name: Provided, '!'bat no insurance, pension, or sick be.neflt fund sball be subject .to the sati"sfaction of any such judJrm·E>nt.

8Ec. 307. Wherever the word "group" is used herein it shall be beld to mean two or more f'mployees, and wbere the word •• strike~ is used It shall be beld to mean the abandonment of employment by such group pursuant to an agrPt:>mr>nt, an un<l~;>rstanding, or by concert of action : Pro'Pided, That nothing hPrPin shall be taken to deny to any individual tbe right to quit his employment tor any reason.

SEc. 808. Tbt>re is hereby appropriated for tbe fiscal year ending Junt- 30. 1920., out of any moneys in the Treaf;lury not otherwise appro-priated, tbe sum of $100,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary, to be f'Xpended by the · board ol railroad wages and working conditions for defraying the expenses of the establtshment and maintenance of such board, including the payment of salaries as providE.'d in this title.

Yon have laid he-re, Mr. Chairman, a predicate for injunctive relief. These men will confront the same situation that confronted the coal miners and will submit to tl1eir Government.

Mr. BEE. Will my friend yield for a question? Mr. WEBSTER. In just a minute. I have so little time. It also provides an efficient means of civilly penalizing men

who insist upon asserting the right of being superior to their Government. It p110tects them by a tribunal t11at is fair and impartial. Is not the President of the United States capable of appointing a commission that will meet an of the requirements of justice and fair play? It will stabilize industrial conditions. It will guarantee an uninterrupted transportation en·ice. It will bring peare. It will prevent great economic

waste. It will establish, as it should be establish~ that the law is supreme and that no class shall be superior to the law. And unless I mistake the temper of the American people. never· more will they con ent to play the inconspicuous role of doormat for the shufHing feet of capital and labor as they struggle for individual gain at the expense of the. general welfare. [Prolonged applause.]

The CHAIRMAN. The time of the gentleman from Washington has again expired.

:Mr. \VEBSTER. 1\fr-. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to revise and extend my remarks.

The CB.A.ffiMAN. Is there objection to the gentleman's request.

There was no objection. The CHAIRMAN. The gentl-eman from Texas [Mr. RAY·

BURN] is recognized. 1\lr. RAYBURN. l\Ir. Chairman, I yield 25 minutes to the

gentleman from North Carolina [Mr. SMALL). The CHAIRMAN. 1.'be gentleman from North Carolina is

recognized for 25 minutes. Mr. SMALL. l\lr. Chairman" I had not intended to speak

until the morning, but Jeai'Ding that this was the only opportunity, .I gladly avail myself of it. At this hour I shall only detain the committee to present one phnse of transportation.

This bill affords an opportunity to Congress to enlarge the instrumentalities of transportation for the eonntry. We have had many striking lessons dm·ing these past few years of the peeessity of increasing transportation facilities. Not only do we realize the need of enlarged railroad facilities, but there is to-day a Nation-wide movement for the construction of better highways, and the prophecy is freely made that the intro· duction of the motor truck upon hard-surfaced roads will, in large degree, incre.ase the .facilities of transport over the highways. But there is a natural b~hway which is, us yet, largely untouched-the waterways of the country. [Applause.]

It is the duty of Congress by legislation to correct any evils which may e..·dst, and to provide remedies by law for increasing water transportation. The opportunity, as I said in the beginning, was afforded in this bill. Has it been availed of by the committee in its report to the House? I do not in the slightest degree disparage the work of the committee. They have indeed had a difficult undertaking. They have given it consc1entious thought>and . labor, and they have brought in a bill in many respects admirable: and never was a bill more clearly analyzed and presented than was this one by the distinguished chairman [Mr. EscH] in the magnificent introductory address which he made this morning.

And yet in so far as it affects water transportation, it is subject to some cr·iticism. When we have had river and harbor bills before the House in the past, the critics have complained because here and there ripon t•ivers and canals it was said there was no commerce. That is true upon so.me rivers, and it will be true so long as present conditions continue.

'Vhat are some of the existing evils which brought about this situation? First are the ruinous competitive rail rates with water lines. Beginning many years ago. when there were no restraining influences. railroad managers reduced those rates competitive with water, a.nd with few exceptions they yet remain and accomplish the purpo~es for which they were origi-nally intended. _

Mr. DENISON. l\fr. Chairman, will too gentleman yield? The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman yield? Mr. SMALL. Yes. 1\Ir.- DENISON. Does not the gentleman think that the com

mittee has gone a long way in preventing that ruinous competition by giving the commission the power to establish a minimum rate on the railroad?

1\Ir. SMALL. I will come to that in a moment. I think there are features in the bill which are correctiv~ and the point which I shall end~avor to make is that they do not go far enough.

CONGRESSION .t\_L. RECORD-HOUSE.

· Let .u · take rliis · ubject of · competit.h·e rail rates made by ruilrou<ls competitiYc with· water. There is not a line in the bill. which attempts 'in direct and posltive terms to correct that . evil. Why, pray, should a railroad competitive with a canal or wnterway maintain ruinously low competit,ive rates and ..,o or 100 miles in· the interior maintain rates very considerably higher? There is no economic justification for any such condition ; and wherever it exists, and where~r legislation will remedy it, it ougiit to be remedied. 'Ve thought, in the Panama Canal act of 1912, where railroads were prohibited from in· creasing low rates competitive with water except by the consent of the Interstate Commerce Commission, that some remedy had been afforded, but in not a ·single instance has any railroad applied to the Interstate Commerce Commission fQr a readjust-ment or an increase of those rates. ·

I believe there should be a provision in this bill directing in mandatory terms the Interstate Commerce Commission to in-

. vestigate and readjust all rail rates competitive with water, and for several reasons. First, that it is unjust to a natural highway, that ought to be used in· the interest of the public; and, second, because of the injustice it works to interior points. I have never found fault with the criticisms of gentlemen who objected to appropriations for rivers the improvement of which was imply intended to secure lower competitive rail rates, and particularly when such lower competitive rail rates worked an injustice to interior sections, because they were compelled to pay the normal or the higher rates ; and not until this injustice is corrected and waterways are left to work out their own salvation, and railways shall be compelled to establish and maintain rates which shall be normal and equal;. throughout the country, will we have a just application of rail rates and will an act of simple justice be <lone to the waterways of the country. .

A committee consisting of some Members of the House aml Senators and a number of other gentlemen throughout the country met recently here in Washington for the purpose · of drafting orne amendments to be submitted to this bill. We did draft several amendments, and one of them sought in a mild way to correct this evil which I have endeavored to describe. Within the limited time at my com~and I shall not undertake to read the amendment now, but I shall insert it as a part of my .remarks, for the information of the House. I ask gentlemen of the committee, when we come to the consideration of this bill for amendment, to give heed to any amendment which may eem to be wise and effective which will cure this old-time evil.

There is another e"lil which this blll ought to correct. We can never have a healthy condition of water transportation until there are complete facilities for the. interchange of traffic between the water lines and the rail lines, such as exist to-day between the different rail lines throughout the country.

Mr. BEE. 'Vill the gentleman from North Carolina yield for a question?

Mr. SMALL. Yes. Mr. BEE. Does this billtmdertake to deal with water trans

portation an<l its control at all? 1\Ir. SMALL. Only in so-far as it is associated in one way

or another with railroads. For instance, the bill gives the Interstate Commerce Commission jurisdiction of h·ansportation partly by rail and partly by water, and it also attempts to give the commission jurisdiction to establish interchange of traffic betv•een rail lines and water lines.

1\fr. BEE. Knowing the gentleman's wide experience in that. matter I a k him, what is to-day the regulation or the law with reference to the control of waterways similar to that which the Interstate Commerce Commission exercises over railroad3?

1\Ir. SMALL. The only jurisdiction of the Interstate Commerce Commis ·ion over "ater transportation is in regard to the interchange of traffic with the raih·oads.

Mr. DENISON. Will the gentleman yield for a que tion? Mr. Sl\IALL. Yes. Mr. DENISON. I want to ask the gentleman if he does not

think that the most important thing to-day to promote river navigation is the proper provision for terminals and for joint traffic arrangements \vith the railroads?

Mr. SMALL. I think the gentleman has well stated the propo ·ition.

·l\1r. DENISON. And thl bill provides that? Mr. SMALL. Let us see. In the Panama Canal act of 1912,

which is brought forward as section 6 of the interstate-commerce act, the Interstate Commerce Commission are given jurisdiction to effect the interchange of traffic between rail lines and water lines. I will not take the trouble to read it. Gentlemen are familiar with that provision. Under that jurisdiction the Interstate Commerce Commission ha"le not been acti\e. Upon the

contrary, they have ·been either purpost.~y or inadvertently inactive, and although many applications have been made for a regulation providing joint and proportional rate betwe~n rail lines and water lines, \ery few of those application· have had consideration anu action by the commi sion.

The committee in tllis bill amend section 6 of the interstatecommerce act, and they improve it; but they still leave it optional with the Interstate Commerce Commi ion to effect this interche-:nge of traffic when application shall be made to them. One of the amendments -which I submitted to the committee for their consideration, and which I nbmit should be incorporated in the ·bill, is to make that provision mandatory upon the commission, so that upon proper conditions-that is to . ay, where a water line is reputable and responsible-they shall be compelled to establish interchange of traffic and joint and proportional rates between it and the connecting railroad . The pending bill also goes too far in conferring jurisdiction over docks and water terminals upon the Interstate Commerce Commission. ~ the gentleman from Illinois [1\fr. DENISON] well ·aid, in

terchange of traffic between the railroads anrl water lines upon fair terms is one of the e sentials for the building up of water transportation. Everyone knows that this magnificent railway system which we ha\e in the United States is predicated largely upon the system of prorating or interchange of traffic between the different lines, so that a shipper at any one railroad point c~n obtain a through bill of lading and a through rate to any other point in the United States situated upon a line of railroad, no matter how many different lines of road are traversed between the point of origin and the point of destination. And the Inter. ·tate Commerce Commission should be required to institute and establish and maintain the same kinu of prorating and interchange of traffic between water lines and railroads as are now required and maintained between different lines of railroad themselves. And the defect iri. the bill which the committee have · presented is in not having amended the paragraph preceding (a), (b), and (c) in section G of the interstate-commerce act by making it mandatory upon the Interstate Commerce Commission. At the proper time during the consideration of the bill I hope to offer an. amendment to that effect.

Another essential for water transportation i th establishment of some Federal agency having jurisdiction to investigate problems of water transportation, collect data, and make recommendations for the promotion of water trao. portation. Water lines at pres~nt have no friend at court. There is no agency of the Federal Government to whom they can go for advice, for information, and for as istance as intermediaries between them and the Interstate Commerce Commission or other admini~trative departments of the Government in order to obtain what they may concei"le to be their rights under the law. The vohmtary committee of which I had the honor to be a member drafted and submitted to the Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce a provision empowering the Bureau of Inter tate and Foreign Commerce of the Department of Commerce to do these things.. The committee have substantially adopted the language which we presented. to them, but they have imposed that duty upon the Secretary of 'Var through the Chief of Engineers. I fear the committee ha,Te make a mistake. No one entertains a higher opinion of the engineering skill, the inteo-rity, and the capacity of the Corps of Engineers than I do.

As a member of the Committee on Rivers and Harbors for years I have come in close contact with them. I aumire them, and within the cope of their training and experience they are unexcelled. But they are not by training or experience familiar with commerce, nor in the discharge of their public untie have they had occasion to become skilled in transportation problem . I believe that this section on page 21 of the bill which imposes that duty on the Secretary of War, through the Chief of Engineers, is an error, and that it ought to be in the Department of Commerce. I have before me the act creating the Department of Commerce, which in plain and explicit terms confers on that department jurisdiction of transportation and the features of it which arc concerned in industry and commerce. This investigating bureau would be ·more appropriate, in my opinion, in the Department of Commerce. · .

In the provision for Government-owned boats which are now under the jurisdiction of the United State Railroad Administra. tion, there was submitted to the committee an amendment which sought to h·ansfer those · boats to the Shipping Board. In our opinion the transfer should be either to the Shipping Board or to some bureau in the Department of Commerce. The bill which the committee has presented h·ansfers them to the Secretary of War, to be operated through the Chief of Engineers. With the greate t deference to the skill and ability of the e officer , I sub,-

1919. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 8361 mit that nothing in their training or experience fits them in any peculiar way for the operation of water lines as a part of the transportation. system of the country.

Mr. DENISON. 'Vill the gentleman yield? 1\lr. SMALL. Yes. 1\.lr. DENISON. I want to ask if it was the gentleman's

thought that the Government was going to continue to operate the boats as a permanent policy?

Mr. Sl\I.A_LL. No. l\.Ir. DENISON. It is only a temporary policy? 1\Ir. SMALL. Certainly. 1\ir. DENISON. Does not the gentleman think that this pro

vision meets the demand of the situation in turning these boats over to the War Department and the Chief of Engineers until they can finally be dispo ed of? The Government does not intend to remain in the boat transportation business.

1\Ir. SMALL. I do not understand that it was in the thought of the committee or the thought of Congress that they should be operated indefinitely, but they ought to be operated for a term of years In order to demonstrate by actual experience their efficiency and capacity to carry commerce for the benefit of the public and with profit to themselves.

l\lr. CLEARY. Will the gentleman yield? l\lr. Sl\IALL. Yes. , l\1r. CLEAH. Y. I might say that the experience of the people

up through New York, where the Government has undertaken to manage canal boats and such things, has resulted in failure, and the only proper thing to do with these boats is to do just what you agreed to do with the ships, sell them for the best obtainable prices to men who know all about them and who lw ve learned the business. .

Mr. SMALL. I suggest to the gentleman from New York that different conditions prevail on the Mississippi Hiver and on the Warrior system than prevails on the waterways of New York.

l\Ir. BLAJ..TJ) of Missouri Will the gentleman yield? Mr. SMALL. Yes. Mr. BLAND of Misso111·i. In the bill under consideration

there is no provision for the sale or purchase of new boats if the old ones are worn out ..... There is no adequate provision for the operation eYen for a temporary period of time. Is that tru<.'?

l\lr. Sl\IALL. That is true. l The CHAIRMAN. The time of the gentl~man from North

Carolina has expired. l\Ir. Sl\IA.LL. Inasmuch as we are not compelled to adjourn

at any stated time, w1ll the gentleman give me five minutes more?

Mr. RAYBURN. I yield five minutes more to the gentleman. !llr. · SMALL. l\ir. Cbalrn:inn, while I live on the Atlantic

seaboard, I conceive it my duty, as it is the duty of every other Member. to consider these auestions from a national vie\moint. There ls no more pressing problem before the country than the establishment of commerce on the rh·ers of the Mississippi Va,Jley between St. Paul and New Orleans. [Applause.] · It is the duty of the Government to make whatever expendi

tures for experiments that may be necessary in order to rehabilitate and reestablL h that commerce, not alone for the benefit of the great Mississippi Valley, but for the welfare of the country. In the operation of these boats for four or five or more yeal's, in order to demonst1·ate their practicability and profit of operation as well as public benefit, they should be operated by men who are familiar with that class of work, who are shillerl in it by training and experience.

Mr. · Chairman, I can not proceed .at any length .along these lines, but when we come to the considet·ation of this bill under the five-minute rule, I hope that the membership of the House will not lose this opportunity to affor<l some remedy for these two evils connected with ~·ater transportation. One is to stop the cutthroat competition, not only In justice to the waterways but in justice to the interior section, and the other is to provide by directing the Interstate Commerce Commission for the establishment and maintenanee of interchange of traffic between the water lines and the railroads to just as full an extent as now exists between the different lines of railroads.

Mr. WILSON of Louisiana. Is it the opinion of the gentleman that the provisions of this bill which authorize the fixing or establishment of the maximum and minimum rates in competing water and rail points is an improvement of the conditions we have now?

1\:fr. S1\IALL. A very great impr.ovement. l\lr. WILSON of Louisiana. Is it the opinion of the gentle

man that that will encourage river traffic? 1\Ir. SMALL. It will, but if you have an inactive Interstate

Commerce Commission who conceive that their chief purpose is to administer the railroads without regard to the rehabilitation

of the wnter lines, any provision of law which you make will be nugatory.

l\fr. WILSON of Louisiana. -This places- the matter entirely under the Interstate Commerce Commission.

Mr. SMALL. As to interchange of traffic, yes. Mr. WILSON of Louisiana. And the fixing and adjusting of

these rates? Mr. SMALL. Yes. l\Ir. WILSON of Louisiana. Is it the opinion of the gentle

man that that Ls not the proper body that should be charged with it?

l\Ir. SMALL. I think it is the proper body. The point I make is that the law should be directory and not simply give them jurisdiction or place it within their discretion. Thi8 is the point I am tryirig to emphasize, that we have had since 1912 a provision in the law giving the Interstate Commerce Commission jurisdiction to estahlish interchange of traffic between water lines and rail lines, and I ask the gentleman if he knows of an instance where they have established it?

Mr. WILSON of Louisiana. No; the complaint has been always that the Interstate Commerce Commiss-ion took no interest in traffic on the w·aterways.

Mr. S~1ALL. Is it not time we compe11ed them to do so, or get some agency of Government that will do it?

Mr. WILSON of Louisiana. I agree with the gentleman, if there is any practical way of doing it.

l\fr. Sl\1ALL. I think we can propose an amendment in ucll terms as will make it mandatory.

Mr. DENISON. Does the gentleman know of any specific instances where they have refused to do so on application?

Mr. SMALL. I can not recall where they have directly ref--used, but in a number of instances they have taken no action whate-ver in response to appliea tions.

'Vb{>n the pending bill is under consideration for amemlment I shall offer the following amendments:

On page 46, after line 7, insert the following as subsection (.8) :

Where there is an existing line of water tl'ansportation, or one is proposPd to be immediately established, it shaJJ be unlawful for any railroad which operates between pointe competttive to said water line to redu~e its existing rates with a view to meeting the difference between water rate: and the rail rat , unless after full hearing the commi . ion shall find th.'lt sneh rE>duetion of rail rotcs is justified in the public interest. In determin1ng the question o! public interest the commission shall c.-oru;ider the rntes cha.r~d by the wate-r line as presumptively reasonable and shall a.Iso consider the advisability or neCf'ssity of maintaining in~ased facilities of trnn portatlon: And pro1.>ided fut·ther, Tbat tbe commission sba.ll not permit any railroad to reduce its existing rates as between points competitfv~ with the water Une or lines unless such railroad maintain such reduced rates as the maximum at aJJ lnt('t·mr-d.iate points ou nll lines between the points of origin and destination.

On page GO, lines 1 and 2, strike out the words u irrespectiv-e of the ownership of the dock."

One page 60, line 7, strike out the worcls " construct a suitable dock and."

On page 60, lines 9, 10, 11, and 12, strike out the words " su-ch dock shall be considered," etc., and ending with the word , in line 12, " in other sections.'-'

On page 60, line 14, strike out the words" docks and." On page 60, line 16, strike out the words" daeks and." On page 61, strike out lines 1 to 5, tnelusive. On page 64, lines 22 and 23, strike out the words " or the

maximum or minimum, or maximum and minimum " an<l insert 1n line 22, after the word" case,n the words" as the maximum."

On page 65, lines 6 and 7, strike out the words "or less than the minimum.''

On page 67, line 3, strike out the words" or the maxima ot• minima, or ma:\.i.ma and minima " and insert in lieu thereof the words "as the maximum.,

On page 58, strike out the words from lines "7 to 25, inclusive, and, page 59, strike out the words in lines ~ to 3, inclusive.

On page 59, line 25, strike out the words 4' to establish " and

iru;ert in lieu thereof the following words : " they shall e.stab· lish-''

1\lr. WINSLOW. Mr. Chairman, I move that the committee do now rise.

The motion was agreed to. Accqrdingly tbe committee rose; ana l\lr. MONDELL having as

sumed the chair as Speaker pro tempore, 1\Ir. WALSH, Chairman of the Committee of the Whole House on the state of the Union, reported that that committee had had under consid-eration the bill H. R. 10453, the railroad bill, ll.Ild bad come to no resolution thereon.

FILING OF J.HN01llTY VIEWB.

Mr. GARRETT. l\lr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent that the minority may haye three ctays in which to file minority YiPws

8362 OONGRESSIONA:L RECORD-HOUSE. NovE~IBER 11,

on House resolution 381, introduced by the gentleman from Illi-nois [Mr. GRAHAM]. .

PRIVATE BILLS . AND RESOLUTIONS.

Under clause 1 of Rule XXII, private bills and re olutions were introduced and severally referred as follows: Tile SPEAKER pro tempore. Is thei·e· objection?

There was no objection. EXTENSION OF nEMARKS. .

l\1r. SWEET. Mr. Speaker, I ·ask unanimous consent to tend my remarks in the RECORD on the railroad bill.

By Mr. BOWERS: A bill (H. R. -10486) granting an increase of pension to Samuel H. Rodeheaver; to the Committee on

ex- Pensions.

. . The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there objection? There was no objection. · Mr. CANDLER. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to

extend my. remarks in the RECORD by discussing a matter in 1·efer~nce to the return of the bodies of our soldier boys across the seas.

The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there objection? There was no objection.

By l\Ir. CLARK of Missouri: A bill (H. R. 10487) granting an increase of pension to Archibald F. Bottoms; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions.

By Mr. FOCHT: A bill (H. lt. 10488) granting a pension to Ella C. Wolfe; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. · Also, a bill (H .. R. 10489) granting a pension to Anna B. Detwiler; to the Committee on Pensions.

·By Mr. GARD: A ·bill (H. R. 10490) granting a pen ion to James Green; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions.

Mr. SWEET. Mr. adjourn.

Also, a bill (H. R. 10491) granting a pension to James H. ADJOURNMENT. · DeVore; to the Committee on Pensions.

Speaker, I move tha~ the House do now · By Mr. GOOD: A bill (H. R. 10492) to remove the charge of

The motion was agreed to ; an<1 accordingly (at 10 o'clock . and 27 minutes p. m.) the House adjourned until to-morrow, Wednesday, November 12, 1919, at 10 o'clock a. m.

REPORTS OF COMMITTEES ON PUBLIC BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS.

Under clause 2 of Rule XIII, Mr. GRAHAM of Illinois, from the Select Committee on Ex

penditures in .,the 'Var Department, to which was referred the resolution (H. Res. 381) requesting the Secretary of War to review the settlement of certain claims arising out of war contracts, reported the same without amendment, accompanied by a report (No. 463), which said resolution and report were referred to the House Calendar.

desertion against George Hull, alias John Buchanan; to the Committee on Military Affairs .

By Mr. JOHNSON of Kentucky: A bill (H. R. 10493) grant· ing an increase of pension to Mary C. Haskins ; to the Com· mittee on Invalid Pensions.

By Mr. JONES of Pennsylvania: A bill (H. R. 10494) granting a pension to James A. Stine; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions.

·By ~r. KNUTSON:: A bill (H. R.. 10495) granting an increa c of pension to Hans Halvorson; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions.

By l\fr. LANGLEY: A bill (H. R. 10496) granting a pen ion to Frank M. Preston; to the Committee on Pensions.

Also, a bill (H. R. 10497) granting a pension to Charley Salyers; to the Committee on Pensions.

Also, a bill (H. R. 10498) granting an inc1•ease of pension to Rissie Swords; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions.

Also, a bill (H. R. 10499) granting an increase of pension to REPORTS OF COMMITTEES ON PRIVATE BILLS AND Stephen Marcum; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions.

RESOLUTIONS. _ By Mr. NICHOLS of Michigan: A bill (H. R. 10500) granting

Under clause 2 of Rule XIII, 1\.I.r. STEENERSON, from the Committee on the Post Office

and Post Roads, to which was referred the bill (H. R. 9583) for the relief of Edward A. Purdy, postmaster of the city of Minneapolis, Minn., for postage stamps, postal-savings stamps, war savings stamps, war: tax revenue stamps, and cash for money orders stolen from tl!e branch post offic(f\t :Minneapolis, Minn., commonly known and described as the traffic station, and lo· cated at Nos. 621 and 623 First Avenue north, in said city, reported the same without amendment, accompanied by a report (No. 462), which said bill and report were referred to the Private Calendar.

a pension to Frank S. Schmidt; to tile Committee on Pensions. By Mr. PURNELL: A bill (H. R. 10501) granting an increase

of pension to William H. Sumption; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. · · By Mr. RUBEY: A bill (H. R. 10502) granting a pension to George W. Burke; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions.

By Mr. SELLS: A bill (H. R. 10503) ·granting an increase of pension to Walter C. Hathaway; to the Committee on Pensions.

By Mr. SWOPE: A bill (H. R. 10504) granting a pension to Virginia Zachary; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions.

Also, a bill (H. R. 10505) ~rranting an increase of pen ion to George Hines; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions.

By l\fr. TAYLOR of Tennessee: A bill (H. R. 10506) granting a pension to Tom Presley ; to the Committee on Invalid Pen~

PUBLIC BILLS, RESOLUTIONS, AND MEMORIALS. sions. · Under clauSe 3 of R'!lle XXII, bills, resolutions, and memorials By 1\Ir .. WHE~LER: A bill (H. R. ~0507) to remoye the cha~g_? .

were introduced and severally referred as follows: of deserti?n agamst John R. Butler, to the Committee on Mill-By Mr. -PARKER: A bill (ll. R. 10480) authorizing the Sec- tary Affairs. ~ . . . .

retary of War to donate a captured German cannon or field- By Mr. ZIH~M~: A bill (H .. R. 10508) gr~ntrng ~ pensiOn piece to the city of Saratoga Springs, N. Y. ; to the Committee 1 to Samuel C. Ptyor, to the Co.mmittee on Inva!Id Penswns. on Military Affairs. By Mr. C~N<?N: Resolu~on (H. Res. 38~) to pay Arthur

By Mr. LEE of Georgia: A bill {H. n. 10481 ) making an Lucas fo~ special Jamtor se~vH:es.; to the ~omm1ttee on Accounts: appropriation to be expended under the provisions of the act B~ Mr. <?R~:I. of Illinois· ResolutiOn <I!· Res. 386) for of March 1, 1911 (36 Stats., p. 961), entitled" An act to enable the ~mediate consideration of House re olutwn 381; to the any State to cooperate with any other State or States, or with Comnnttee 0 D: Rules. the United States, for the protection of the watersheds of navigable streams, and to appoint a commission for the acquisition of lands and for the purpose of surveying the navigability of unnavigable streams," as amended; to the Committee on Agriculture.

By Mr. CAMPBELL of Pennsylvania: .A bill (H. R. 10482) autl1orizing the Secretary of War to don.ate to the Rennerdale Civie Club, Rennerdrue, Allegheny County, Pa., one German cannon ot· fieldpiece, to be placed on the front lawn of the Rennerdale public school; to the Committee on Military Affairs.

AI o, a bill (H. R. 10483) to provide for the construction of a waterway from the Ohio River to Lake Erie; to the Committee

· on Railways and Canals. By Mr. HERSMAN: A bill (H. R. 10484) to provide for an

examination and survey of Snn Luis Obispo Harbor, Calif. ; to tlw Committee on Rivers and Harbors. -

By Mr. HICKEY: A bill (H. R. 10485) to establish a fish· cultural station at some point in the State of Indiana on Lnke Michigan ; to the Committee on the Merchant Marine· and FLosheries. -

'

PETITIONS, ETC. Under clause 1 of Rule XXII, petiqons an<l papers were laid

on the Clerk's desk and referred as follows : By the SPEAKER (by request): Petition of Lincoln Post, No.

1, Department of Kansas,' Grand Army of the Republic, favor· ing House bill. 9369; to the Committee on Military Affair .

.By Mr. CUL~EN: Petition of sundry citizens of Brooklyn, N. Y., favoring additional pay to solc;liers and sailors who partici· pated in the Great War; to the Committee on Military Affairs.

.Also, petl,tion .of American Bankers' Association, pre enting resolutions adopted at the forty-fifth annual convention, lleld at StLouis, Mo.; to the Committee on Banking and Currency.

By l\Ir. HERNANDEZ: Petitiqn of Taxpayers' Association of New Mexico, favoring transfer of public lands of the United States to the several States in which they are located in order that the States may utilize such 1arids for internal improvement, and for other purposes; to the Committee on the Public Lands. · By l\Ir. KENNEDY of Rhode Island : Protest of Railroad Lodge, No. 1179; International As ociation of - Machinists; of

'

1919. C.ONGI{I£SSIONAL R-~CORD-. SENATE. 8363

Providence, -R. I., against antistrike clause of Cummins bill; to the Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce. · AI o, resolution of Rhode Island Branch of the American Le.

gion, affirming adherence to the American'!? cre~d, Hon. William Tyler Page, author, and subscribing to the' principles of patriotism and loyalty to the United States embodied in it; to the Com-mittee on the Judiciary. ·

Also, resolution of Rhode Island Branch of the American Legion, pledging its members to use all lawful means to check and prevent extension of dangerous doctrines of Bolsheviki, anarchists, I. W. W., or kindred organizations; to the Committee on the Judiciary. · .

Also, resolution of Rhode Island State Branch of the American Legion, demanding enactment of legislation deporting all persons who withdrew their first naturalization papers to _avoid performance of military duty in the reC'~nt war; to the Committee on Immigration and Naturalization.

Also, resolution of Rhode Island Branch of the American Legion, favoring granting of Federal and State bonuses; to the Committee on Military Affairs.

Also resolution of Rhode Island Branch of the American Legion, p'rotesting against the development of Bolshevism and urging the Government to take such steps as may be necessary to curb this menace to free institutions ; to the Committee on the Judiciary. · ·

Also resolution of Rhode Island Branch of the American LeO'ion ~rging investigation and passage of legislation to enable the ~hildren of deceased and disabled veterans to acquire a suitable preparation for life; to the Committee on Military Affaii:s.

Also resolution of Rhode Island Branch of the Amer1can Legion', recommendin~? passage of legislation for in_crease of pay for officers and men m the Army, Navy, and Marme Corps; to the Commj.ttee on 1\Iilitfl.ry Affairs.

Aiso resolution of Rhode Island Branch of the American Legion', urging that a ·ctause be placed in all contr~cts ma~e.by Federal State, city, and to·wn governments making proVISIOn for vete~ans of the Great War to be given preference on employment eligibility tests; to the Committee on Reform in the Civil Service. · .

Also resolution of Rhode Island Branch of the American Legion', favoring Federal legislation enabling veterans of the war to borrow from the Government 100 per cent of the value of a building to be used personally as his home in any part of the United States at a low rate of interest payable over a long period ·of years; to the Committee on Military Affairs. .

By Mr. MICHENER: Petition of Women's Foreign Missi,onary Society of the First Methodist Episcopal Church of Adrian; Mich., favoring House bill 8063; to the Committee on. Foreign Affairs.

By Mr. O'CONNELL: Petition of the American Bankers' .A..s ocintion of New York, forwarding resolutions adopted at annual convention held at St. Louis, Mo.; to the Committee on Banking and Ourrency.

Also, petition of Associated Fruit and Vegetable Industries of Eastern and Western New York, protesting against Rouse bill 9521 ; to the Committee on Agriculture. ..

SENATE. WEDNESDAY, Novembm· 1~, 1919.

(Legislative flay of Monday, Nove_mber 10, 1919.)

The Senate met at 11 o'clock a. m., on· the expiration of the recess.

Mr. SMOOT. Mr. President, I suggest the absence of a quorum. .

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Secretary will call the roll.

The Secretary call~d the roll, and the following Senators an-swered to their names : ' · Ashurst Hale La Follette

~~!~degec ~~~g ~~~ot Calder Harrison · McCormick Capper Henderson McCumber Chamberlain Ilitchcock McKP!lar Colt Johnson, Calif. McNary Cummins Johnson, S.Dak. Moses Curtis .Jones, N. Mex. Nelson Dial J'ones, Wash. New Dillingham Kellogg Newberry Edge Kendrick Norris Elkins Kenyon Nugent Fall Keyes Overman Fre1inghuysan King . Page Gay T(lrby Penrose Gronna Knox Phelan

Phipps Pittman Poindexter Pomerene Ransdell Reed Robinson Sheppard Sherman Simmons Smith, Ariz. Smith, Ga. Smith, Md. Smith, S.c. Smoot Spencer Stanley

Sterling Townsend Walsh. Mont. Wolcott Sutherland Trammell Warren Swanson Under-Wood Watson Thomas Wadsworth Williams

Mr. CURTIS. I wish to announce the absence on oflicial business of the Senator from Maryland [Mr. FRANCE].

Mr. REED. I wish to announce that the senior Senator froru Tennessee [Mr. SHIELDS] is detained at his home by illness.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. My colleague the senior Senator from Alabama [Mr. BANKHEAD] is detained by illness.

1\fr. SHEPPARD. The Senator from Rhode Island [Mr. GERRY], the Senator from Massachusetts [1.\Ir. WALSH], the Senator from Oklahoma [Mr. GoRE], and the Senator from Florida [Mr. FLETCHER] are absent on official business.

The PRESIDENT pro tempoi.·e. Eighty-one · Senator have answered to their names. T~ere is a quorum present.

THE RACE PROBLEM. Mr. SPENCER. If there is no objection, I ask to have

printed in the RECORD certain recommendations of the Southern Sociological Congress with regard to the race .question. The question is one of such exceeding importance that I am sure these suggestions and recommendations will prove of great value.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Without objection, it is so ordered.

The matter referred to is as follows: [Editorial in the Outlook of Sept. 10, 19H>.]

THE RACE PROBLEM.

"The race problem is national in scope, but its final solution must be locally determined. It is a problem of human relationship, and this human relationship is reducible in the final analysis to the one white man, face to face with one negro. The national race problem is really only a multiplication of _the problem of this individual relationship.

"This iS why the Outlook has always insi ·ted. that the negro problem of the South could be solved only by the South. The North can advise and aid, and that is all. ' Now that the North is becoming acutely aware of the fact that it possesses a race problem of its own, while the situation is reversed, the principle still remains the same. East St. Louis-an Illinois, not a Missouri, city, we ask our reade:rs to obserYe--and Chicago, Washington, Knoxrule, and Atlan'ta, to each its peculiar problem, to each its oWn. · solution: . But the intensely local character of the race problem should not prevent the broadest ·national consideration of its causes' and effects. The North can learn from the South and the South from the North. But upon each section and locality must rest the responsibility for putting into effect the conclusions reached in general discussion and study.

"It is this dual character of the problem .in i6nocal and national aspects which lends peculiar interest to the proposal recently put forward by the Southern Sociological Congress, of which Bishop Theodore D. Bratton is president.

"This proposal, at the suggestion of President Wilson, w·as laid. before the co~erence of. the governors of the several States recently in session at Salt Lake City, Utah. The goyernors' conference broke all precedents in permitting Bi ·hop Bratton to speak at one of its sessions. The resolution which Bishop Bratton proposed was made a part of the official 1;ecords of the conference, and received h1gh praise from many of the goyernors present. --

" The resolution laid before the goYernor. ·' conference and the program called for therein are of such merit and importance that we republish them here in full. The resolution reads:

" ' Recognizing that the negi.·o is a permanent an·d increasingly important factor in the development of our national life; the Southern Sociological Congress considers the solution of the problem of race relations as the most delicate_ and difficult single task for American democracy. We belieYe that no enduring basis of good will between the w'hite and colored peoples in this country can be developed except on the fundamental principles of justice, cooperation, and r.ace .integrity. The obligations of this generation to posterity demand that we exert our utmost endeavor to preserye the purity of our democratic ideal!( expressed in the American Constitution, a well as the purity of the blood of both races. With this belief the Southern Sociological Congress has worked out a program foi· the improYemeJ1t of race relations which we respectfully submit to the conference of governors in the earnest hope that this body of distinguished leaders may lend its beautiful influence toward making this program effectiye throughout the Union.

" ' The program is- . ~·'First, that the negro should IJc liberated from the blighting

fear of injustice and mob violence . . To ihi end it is imperatively urgent that lynching be pi·evented-

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