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1  

Contents

List of figures 2

Introduction 3

Chapter 1: Historiography, sources and methodology 6

Chapter 2: Understanding the physical and social context 15

Chapter 3: Patterns of everyday life 27

Chapter 4: Constructions of community 40

Conclusion 52

Bibliography 54

Appendices 65

1. Oral History Society ethical guidelines 66

2. Oral history paperwork 68

2.1 Informed consent form 68

2.2 Recording agreement form 69

3. Oral history transcripts 70

3.1 Mervyn Browne 70

3.2 Eilidh Campbell 94

3.3 Donald Hancock 107

3.4 Joan MacKenzie 126

3.5 Margaret McLauglin 154

3.6 Phil Simpson 169

3.7 Kenneth Taylor 188

3.8 Margaret Taylor 206

 

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List of figures

Figure 1: Maps showing the location of Ardeonaig and Ardtalnaig, Loch Tay 15

Figure 2: Detailed maps of Ardeonaig 17

Figure 3: Detailed maps of Ardtalnaig 18

Figure 4: View towards the Post Office in Ardeonaig, early twentieth century 28

Figure 5: Harvest time in Ardeonaig c.1910 31

Figure 6: The Queen of the Lake steamboat on Loch Tay (built 1907, in service until 1939) 32

Figure 7: Timetable from Bradshaw’s Guide showing the service between Edinburgh, 33

Glasgow and Loch Tay, 1909

Figure 8: The Ardeonaig Post Bus, early 1990s 34

Figure 9: Ardtalnaig Post Office c.1930 35

Figure 10: Delivery services from Aberfeldy: D. McGrouther’s butchery delivery cart 36

and the Co-operative van c.1951

Figure 11: Grocery book from 1971 belonging to Margaret Taylor 37

Figure 12: Ardeonaig School, early twentieth century (schoolroom hidden from view on right) 39

 

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Introduction

Whilst much historical research has focused on Scotland’s Highland Clearances in the eighteenth and

nineteenth centuries, far less attention has been paid to the dynamics of rural Scottish life in more

recent times. In particular, there has been little exploration of the ebb and flow of lochside life during

the twentieth century despite the fact that ‘loch and glen’ have become iconic images of Scotland,

much-exploited by the tourism industry throughout this period. Studies of selected communities or

regions have of course been done and the broad themes of Scottish modern history are well-

explored in books intended to give an overview of the twentieth century. However, no previous

historical research has focused specifically on change and continuity in a lochside setting over the last

century, and little consideration has been given to whether there was anything distinctive about it.

Conceived in response to this gap in knowledge, this study focuses on one specific lochside location

and uses a micro-historical approach to get up close and personal to the processes that shaped social

experience over the course of the twentieth century. Centred around the two small hamlets of

Ardeonaig and Ardtalnaig on South Lochtayside in Highland Perthshire, the research takes a broad

look at the economic, social and technological changes that defined the period as well as observing

those elements of continuity which underpinned everyday life. Given the all-encompassing nature of

this topic, and the implausibility of covering every aspect of human experience, the study places

particular emphasis on understanding the dynamics of social life in this lochside setting and utilises

social theory to facilitate analysis. Adopting an interdisciplinary approach, drawing on the expertise

and research of both sociologists and ethnographers, the concept of ‘community’ has taken centre

stage and observations about how this has been structured and experienced over time form the basis

of discussion. Recognising the complexity of this and difficulty of analysing such things from a

historical perspective, a plethora of primary and secondary sources have been consulted in an effort

to build up a detailed picture of lochside life during the twentieth century. As well as using printed

and written records, extensive use has been made of oral history testimonies, many of which were

recorded specifically for the purposes of this research, in order to gain a greater sense of the way in

which people experienced and made sense of the past. Although this approach has posed many

challenges, the effort has undoubtedly been worthwhile not only terms of the study’s

historiographical contribution and but also the sociological insights it has given.

Beginning with an extensive review of literature pertinent to the study, Chapter 1 provides a

detailed overview of the methodology adopted and draws out the key themes for consideration.

Having identified a gap in knowledge and the need for more detailed research into this area of

Scottish history, a clear conceptualisation of the topic is given and a workable framework for study

set out. The interdisciplinary nature of the research is also explored in some depth and consideration

shown to the wider significance of such a micro-historical study. Concerned throughout to ensure

the highest standard of historical scholarship whilst making the best use of concepts and research

 

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findings from across the disciplines, a discerning approach to the selection, interpretation and analysis

of evidence is taken with due thought given to the inherent methodological challenges. In doing so,

particular attention is paid to the advantages and pitfalls of using oral history as a source, and an

account of how the recordings were made is given, including details of training received and

guidelines adhered to in the process.

Having outlined the historiographical and methodological basis of this research, Chapter 2 moves

on to explore the physical and social context of the study. Although the geographical setting of South

Lochtayside continued to shape human experience throughout the twentieth century, the way in

which people related to the physical environment changed quite dramatically. Population decline,

economic change and technological innovation all played their part in this, and in doing so

transformed the nature of lochside life. Using the available Census Records and Valuation Rolls to

gauge the size and social composition of the population at different points during the century, this

section charts the journey from semi-subsistence farming villages to small peripheral hamlets dotted

with weekend and holiday homes. In doing so, particular attention is paid to the shifting patterns of

tenancy and land ownership over the decades, and observations are made about how people adapted

to these and other changes. Above all, it allows for a detailed account of the nature and pace of

change in this lochside setting and reveals much about the way in which everyday continuities helped

to sustain a sense of order and linkage with the past.

Continuing this theme, and seeking to gain a more in-depth understanding of the complex interplay

between change and continuity during this period, Chapter 3 focuses in on four key aspects of

everyday life: employment, transport, shopping and education. Drawing on a growing body of

literature concerned with the ‘ordinary, routine, daily behaviour, experiences and beliefs of the

Scottish people’, various sources are analysed in an attempt to discern how the broad historical

processes which shaped the twentieth century were translated into lived experience on Lochtayside.1

Given the tremendous diversity of human experience and differing perspectives of individuals within

the same setting due to a whole range of factors, even a micro-historical study such as this one

cannot hope to gain anything more than a general sense of this. However, by combining printed and

written sources (including photographs) with oral history testimony, it has been possible to gain a

very real impression of how people reacted and adapted to change along the lochside during this

period. Moving away from abstract notions of change and broad interpretations of its social impact,

this chapter focuses in on the nuances of everyday life, and gives an account of the way in which the

twentieth-century transformation of Scottish society filtered down to a local level. In doing so, it

reveals a surprising degree of stability and shows how even the most dramatic of changes became

much more subtly woven into the fabric of people’s lives.

                                                            1 C. A. Whatley and E. Foyster, ‘Foreword’, in L. Abrams and C. G. Brown, eds, A History of Everyday Life in Twentieth Century Scotland (Edinburgh: Edinburgh University Press, 2010), p.ix.

 

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Drawing on the previous analysis, Chapter 4 looks much more closely at the social dynamics of life

in this lochside setting and explores how community was constructed and experienced over the

course of the twentieth century. In the face of demographic, social, economic and technological

changes, community relations underwent something of a transformation during this period as the

resident population diminished and the traditional pillars of rural life fell away. Recognising the

complexity of this topic and the fact that ‘the term community is almost as indefinable – as well as

indispensable - as the term culture’, three distinct, but not mutually exclusive, definitions are

employed to guide and inform the discussion.2 Therefore, as well as seeing community in simple

terms as a geographically-defined population, the significance of communities of interest – those

things that connect people through common experience – is explored alongside consideration of

what Cohen describes as the ‘symbolic construction of community', the cultural meaning that people

place upon it and its role in shaping their identity and sense of belonging.3 Although such things are

incredibly difficult to discern, much has been gleaned from the available sources and important

conclusions are drawn about the nature of social relationships on South Lochtayside and how they

shifted over time. In particular, observations are made about the dynamic between locals and

incomers, and consideration given to how a sense of unity and continuity with the past was sustained.

Following this, the Conclusion highlights the key findings from the study and reflects on its wider

significance. Having noted the economic and social transformation of life on South Lochtayside, and

the persistent and enduring nature of change during the twentieth century, consideration is given to

the shift in social relations and changing conceptualisation of community over time. Confirming the

link with other historical, sociological and ethnographical studies, attention is drawn to the complex

interplay between change and continuity, and the importance of viewing the subtle dynamics of

change as well as observing broad historical trends.

                                                            2 P. Burke, History and Social Theory, 2nd edition (Cambridge: Polity Press, 2005), p.57. 3 A. P. Cohen, The Symbolic Construction of Community (Chichester: Ellis Horwood/Tavistock, 1985), p.8.

 

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Chapter 1

Historiography, sources and methodology

Despite a narrow geographical focus, this micro-historical study of lochside life in the twentieth

century is far from being a ‘parochial’ history.4 Drawing on a wide range of sources, including oral

history testimonies, and adopting an interdisciplinary approach, the study provides in-depth analysis

of change and continuity at community level and contextualises local experience in relation to the

broader brushstrokes of Scottish history during this period. Centred round a review of the relevant

literature from across the disciplines, this chapter explores the rationale behind the study and

provides justification for the chosen methodology as well as an evaluation of the sources used.

Whilst the secondary literature offers little in the way of specific information on the two settlements

under study and reveals a glaring lack of detailed historical research into this topic, it does highlight

key trends and provides a detailed backdrop for more localised research. The mixture of historical,

sociological and ethnographical texts available not only gives a breadth of focus, but also encourages

and supports an interdisciplinary approach. There are many insights to be drawn from other ‘micro-

histories’ and community studies, and the theoretical debates around community, identity and

belonging provide a valuable conceptual framework to guide and inform the research. Furthermore,

the combination of archival research and oral history interviewing allows for a greater depth of

enquiry, overlapping documentary evidence with personal testimony to form a more detailed picture

of how people lived and experienced life in this particular rural setting over the course of the last

century.

Before taking a more detailed look at the relevant literature, methodology and sources used in this

study, it is helpful to begin with the rationale behind it. Whilst recognising that the historian should

‘never try to claim too much for any methodology’, the micro-historical approach taken here has

proved extremely elucidating and has a lot to commend it.5 Such micro-histories have a great deal in

common with sociological and ethnographical studies at community level, as well as echoing the work

‘undertaken by anthropologists early in the twentieth century’, and provide a focused lens through

which to perceive the complex dynamics of social history.6 They also offer an excellent basis for

comparative study and can, as the Annales School demonstrated, be used as ‘a building block from

which a larger edifice is built.’7 Given that such comparison can also ‘provide a crucial check on

explanatory models’ used, this study is seen simply as a first step towards understanding the changes

and continuities that defined lochside life during the twentieth century.8 Arising from personal

interest, the research topic has been developed with reference to the existing literature and through

                                                            4 Given the predominance of descriptive works and antiquarian local histories, there is a tendency to assume that small scale historical studies are parochial and amateurish in their approach. 5 R. Marius, A Short Guide to Writing about History, 2nd edition (New York: Harper Collins, 1995), p.50. 6 P. Burke, History and Social Theory, p.40. 7 J. Black and D. M. MacRaild, Studying History (Basingstoke: Macmillan, 1997), p.92. 8 Ibid, p.104.

 

7  

consideration of a variety of practical and methodological concerns. With there being little previous

research on this topic, a single case-study taking a long-term view over the entire course of the

twentieth century was chosen over a broader comparative approach, and oral history interviewing

was identified as a key component of the research. Although adopting a narrow geographical focus

limits the scope for comparison across Scotland or more widely, it does permit an extraordinary

level of detail and a depth of social analysis which broader studies struggle to achieve. Unsurprisingly,

historical enquiry of this nature is best served through interdisciplinary scholarship. Yet, whilst this

poses a tremendous methodological challenge, it also presents an amazing opportunity to draw

together elements of sociological, ethnological and historical thought into a refined methodology that

imbues the historian with investigative and analytical power.

Turning now to the historiographical context of this study, it is useful to begin with an overview of

the general histories of Scotland during this period before delving into the specifics of more localised

studies. Whilst such literature is undoubtedly constrained by the need to generalise in pursuit of the

big picture, it does offer a valuable insight into modern Scottish history and raises questions that are

useful in framing research at a more ‘micro-history’ level. Though it may be tempting to clump these

broad historical works together, viewing them simply as ‘useful introductory texts’, there is in fact a

wide variety of literature that seeks ‘to attempt something more general and covering a longer

chronological span’ than the typical research paper or monograph.9 These books range from the epic

overview, such as Devine’s The Scottish Nation which attempts a history of Scotland and its people

from 1700 to the present day,10 to the century-specific synopsis along the lines of Finlay’s Modern

Scotland: 1914-2000,11 and the rather pessimistically titled No Gods and Precious Few Heros: Twentieth

Century Scotland by Christopher Harvie.12 Other works of note include Catriona Macdonald’s recent

book Whaur Extremes Meet: Scotland’s Twentieth Century, which adopts a thematic, rather than

chronological narrative, approach with the aim of presenting the ‘competing voices of Scotland’s past

in order to avoid the convention of privileging one voice in the search for a single storyline.’13 Given

that many aspects of human experience are indiscernible to the historian’s eye, with the social and

cultural dimensions of history often being hidden whilst economic and political concerns are apt to

come to the fore, this is a real challenge. Yet, the desire to achieve a greater equilibrium and present

a more multi-faceted account of Scottish history is to be commended. Such an approach is often best

served through the collaboration of authors and there are also a number of collective studies which

seek to do this, most notably Dickson and Treble’s People and Society in Scotland,14 Devine and Finlay’s

Scotland in the 20th Century,15 and Abrams and Brown’s A History of Everyday life in Twentieth Century

Scotland.16 The last of these, which is one of four books on this theme, is particularly focused in its

                                                            9 E. A. Cameron, Impaled Upon a Thistle: Scotland Since 1880 (Edinburgh: Edinburgh University Press, 2010), p.ix. 10 T. M. Devine, The Scottish Nation: 1700-2007, revised edition (London: Penguin, 2006). 11 R. Finlay, Modern Scotland 1914-2000 (London: Profile, 2004). 12 C. Harvie, No Gods and Precious Few Heros: Twentieth-Century Scotland, 3rd edition (Edinburgh: Edinburgh University Press, 1998). 13 C. M. M. Macdonald, Whaur Extremes Meet: Scotland’s Twentieth Century (Edinburgh: Birlinn, 2009) p.xv. 14 A. Dickson and J. H. Treble, eds, People and Society in Scotland, Volume III, 1914–1990 (Edinburgh: John Donald, 1992). 15 T. M. Devine and R. J. Finlay, eds, Scotland in the 20th Century (Edinburgh: Edinburgh University Press, 1996). 16 L. Abrams and C. G. Brown, eds, A History of Everyday Life in Twentieth Century Scotland (Edinburgh: Edinburgh University Press, 2010).

 

8  

effort to ‘provide a richer and more closely observed history of the social, economic and cultural

lives of ordinary Scots than has been previously published.’17 Whilst such compilations do not analyse

the various themes in an ‘exhaustive fashion’, they have the undoubted advantage of drawing on a

breadth of expertise and, in doing so, demonstrate the depth of insight to be gained from taking an

interdisciplinary approach.18 This is certainly the case with Scotland in the Twentieth Century whose

chapters ‘are written by scholars who are acknowledged leaders in their respective fields’ and

‘represent a range of academic subjects including history, economic history, literature, sociology,

educational studies and politics.’19 By opening up the discourse in this way, such studies also

encourage consideration of literature from other disciplines such as the multi-volume series on

Scottish Life and Society published by the European Ethnological Research Centre20 and sociological

texts including David McCrone’s Understanding Scotland: the Sociology of a Nation.21

Narrowing the focus away from Scotland as a whole to consider texts which take a regional or

local perspective, the tremendous diversity of literature available in this category is immediately

obvious. A high proportion of these relate the Highlands, with numerous texts offering detailed

historical analysis covering the economy and politics relating to the region as well as the social and

cultural aspects of Highland life throughout the centuries. It is significant, however, that these tend to

concentrate on the Western Highlands and Islands, ignoring or paying little attention to, what Ewan

Cameron describes as, ‘the fringe areas in Moray, Banff, Aberdeen or Perth.’22 Highland Perthshire,

the focus of this study, is therefore rarely mentioned. At the same time, there is an overwhelming

preoccupation with the Highland Clearances of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. The reader

interested in this turbulent time in Scotland’s history has a wealth of titles to choose from including

Devine’s, Clanship to Crofters’ War: the Social Transformations of the Scottish Highlands,23 Fry’s Wild Scots:

Four Hundred Years of Highland History,24 as well as many books simply titled The Highland Clearances.25

Without downplaying the importance of this topic, the dominance of this period in the discussion of

the Highlands has undoubtedly overshadowed the events and experiences of the century that

followed. Whilst this geographic and temporal bias in the historical literature is somewhat frustrating,

there are a number of other secondary sources to turn to for more specific information; these

include various local histories as well as a plethora of studies on Scottish society from a number of

other disciplines.

                                                            17 Abrams and Brown, eds, A History of Everyday Life, p.ix. 18 T.M. Devine, ‘General Introduction’, in Dickson and Treble, eds, People and Society in Scotland, Vol. III, 1914–1990, p.v. 19 T.M. Devine, ‘Introduction’, in Devine and Finlay, eds, Scotland in the 20th Century, p.1. 20 There are 14 volumes in the Scottish Life and Society: a Compendium of Scottish Ethnology series covering themes such as Farming and the Landscape, The Food of the Scots, Heath and Home: the Culture of the Dwelling House and The Individual and Community Life in Scotland. 21 D. McCrone, Understanding Scotland: the Sociology of a Nation, 2nd edition (London and New York: Routledge, 2001). 22 E. Cameron, ‘Highlands and Islands: General’, in Michael Lynch, ed., The Oxford Companion to Scottish History (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2001), p.292. 23 T. M. Devine, Clanship to Crofters’ War: the Social Transformations of the Scottish Highlands (Manchester: Manchester University Press, 1994). 24 M. Fry, Wild Scots: Four Hundred Years of Highland History (London: John Murray, 2005). 25 These include E. Richards, The Highland Clearances (Birlinn, 2007) 2 vols; J. Prebble, The Highland Clearances (Penguin, 1982) and; A. McKenzie, The Highland Clearances (Waverley, 2008).

 

9  

Starting with the local histories, there is an assortment of books specifically concerned with the

history of Perthshire. Unsurprisingly, the earlier publications, such as Hugh MacMillan’s The Highland

Tay: From Tyndrum to Dunkeld, are fairly antiquarian in nature and tend to focus on local folklore,

recounting the olden times, and extolling the virtues of the region rather than attempting any kind of

researched historical discourse. There are, however, some real gems to be found including the well-

known In Famed Breadalbane by William Gillies, published in 1938, which offers a scholarly and

detailed biographical account of the aristocracy and clergy of the region.26 Whilst this volume is

somewhat ‘short on penetrative social analysis’, the specific detail given about Ardeonaig and

Ardtalnaig, particularly with regard to the church and education, is undeniably valuable in helping to

set the scene.27 Furthermore, the very fact that Gillies was the Minister of Kenmore at the time of

writing gives his work the additional value of offering an insight into the character and concerns of a

key local figure during the early decades of the century. In a similar vein, the more recent A Bit of

Breadalbane by Alaistair Duncan Millar details the history of the Remony Estate, which sits to the east

of Ardtalnaig on South Lochtayside, and offers a welcome lochside perspective.28 Representing the

author’s ‘own views after a lifetime at Remony’ the account is unashamedly subjective, with Duncan

Millar keen to stress that he is relating ‘the chain of events as I believe they occurred which most

affect the people and lands of Lochtayside.’29 Nevertheless, its mix of personal testimony and

documentary evidence is compelling. This meshing together of sources is also seen in a number of

other books of direct relevance to this study, including Aberfeldy: The History of a Highland Community

by Ruary Mackenzie Dodds,30 Under the Shadow by Brid Hetherington,31 and ‘In Our Day…’

Reminiscences and Songs from Rural Perthshire compiled by Bennett and Rougvie.32 The last of these

weaves together ‘excerpts of transcripts’ with ‘strands from written records’ and, although it is done

from the perspective of a folklorist favouring presentation over analysis, it does offer some engaging

glimpses of the past, some of which relate to the lochside.33 A similar approach is taken by

sociologists Lynn Jamieson and Claire Toynbee in Country Bairns, which uses oral testimonies to

survey ‘the rural scene from different vantage points’ in order to get ‘a more detailed picture.’34

Whilst such a creative and interdisciplinary approach is not without its issues for the historian whose

Rankean sensibilities push for a more thorough assessment and analysis of each source, there is no

doubt that works such as these provide a fresh perspective on historical research and encourage an

imaginative approach to reconstructing the past.

Recognising the insights to be gained from other disciplines, a range of sociological and ethnological

texts must also be considered. Both disciplines are essentially concerned with contemporary society

                                                            26 W. A. Gillies, In Famed Breadalbane: The Story of the Antiquities, Lands and People of a Highland District (Perth: Munro Press, 1938). 27 G. J. West, An Historical Ethnography of Rural Perthshire, 1750-1950: Farm, Family, and Neighbourhood (New York: Edwin Mellen, 2007), p.30. 28 A. Duncan Millar, A Bit of Breadalbane (Durham: Pentland, 1995). 29 Ibid, p.1. 30 R. Mackenzie Dodds, Aberfeldy: The History of a Highland Community (Aberfeldy: Watermill Books, 2010). 31 B. Hetherington, Under the Shadow: Letters of Love and War 1911-1917 (Dunfermline: Cualann Press, 1999). 32 M. Bennett and D. Rougvie, ‘In Our Day…’ Reminiscences and Songs from Rural Perthshire (Octhertyre: Grace Note Publications, 2010). 33 Ibid, back cover. 34 L. Jamieson and C. Toynbee, Country Bairns: Growing Up 1900-1930 (Edinburgh: Edinburgh University Press, 1992), p.201.

 

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and culture, sociology with ‘the study of human society, with an emphasis on generalisations about its

structure and development’,35 and ethnography with ‘cultural tradition, not as a quaint and moribund

survival of the past, but as an ongoing process.’36 Yet, the move towards more interdisciplinary

scholarship over the last few decades has led to the emergence of both ‘historical ethnology’37 and

‘historical sociology’.38 These are closely related to social and cultural history, and the line between

them is somewhat blurred. In terms of studying twentieth-century Scottish life, such studies are

extremely useful. Of particular note is the work of Alexander Fenton, whose Country Life in Scotland

provides a detailed account of ‘what has happened to the people of the countryside over the last two

or three hundred years.’39 In a similar vein, Gary J. West’s An Historical Ethnography of Rural Perthshire

1750-1950 is the culmination of extensive ‘historical’ research into the everyday culture and

experiences of people living in this region.40 Adopting a slightly different methodology to

contemporary ethnographers, West relies heavily on the testimony of others and documentary

sources rather than his own observations and admits that at times his ‘approach has been very much

that of the social historian.’41 Although the research is not focused on Loch Tay, West’s concern to

explore ‘the concept of belonging’ and how membership of ‘the community’ is negotiated makes his

observations about rural life in the wider Perthshire area extremely useful.42 Even classic sociological

studies including Littlejohn’s renowned Westrigg: The Sociology of a Cheviot Parish,43 Arsenberg and

Kimball’s Family and Community in Ireland,44 Life in a Welsh Countryside by Rees,45 and Frankenberg’s

seminal work on Communities in Britain,46 now offer a historical perspective given when they were

written. These studies alongside more recent contributions, including Stephenson’s Ford: A Village in

the West Highlands of Scotland,47 Strathern’s Kinship at the Core,48 and the Rowntree report on

Neighbourhood Identity in Stirling,49 not only provide case-study material but also outline the theory

and methods used to conceptualise and research community life. Another notable contribution is the

collection of essays edited by Anthony P. Cohen under the title Belonging and Social Organisation in

British Rural Cultures, which gives expression to the view that social organisation should be seen ‘as a

means through which people order, value and express their knowledge of their worlds of

experience, rather than as a structural determination of such knowledge.’50 In many respects, this

collective effort flows from Cohen’s earlier work, The Symbolic Construction of Community which

approaches ‘community as a phenomenon of culture: as one therefore, which is meaningfully

                                                            35 Burke, History and Social Theory, p.2. 36 West, An Historical Ethnography of Rural Perthshire, p.5. 37 A term used by West to describe his recent work on rural Perthshire, Ibid, p.4. 38 This is discussed in detail in D. M. MacRaild and A. Taylor, Social Theory and Social History (Basingstoke: Palgrave Macmillan, 2004), pp.33-54. 39 A. Fenton, Country Life in Scotland: Our Rural Past, revised edition (Edinburgh: Birlinn, 2008), p.1. 40 West, An Historical Ethnography of Rural Perthshire. 41 Ibid, p.278. 42 Ibid, p.2. 43 J. Littlejohn, Westrigg: The Sociology of a Cheviot Parish (London: Routledge and Kegan Paul, 1963). 44 C. M. Arensberg and S. T. Kimball, Family and Community in Ireland, 2nd edition (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1968). 45 A. Rees, Life in a Welsh Countryside (Cardiff: University of Wales Press, 1950). 46 R. Frankenberg, Communities in Britain: Social Life in Town and Country (Harmondsworth: Penguin, 1966). 47 J. B. Stephenson, Ford: A Village in the West Highlands of Scotland. A Case Study of Repopulation and Social Change in a Small Community (Edinburgh: Paul Harris, 1984). 48 M. Strathern, Kinship at the Core. An Anthropology of Elmdon, a Village in North-west Essex in the Nineteen Sixties (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1981). 49 D. Robertson, J. Smyth and I. McIntosh, Neighbourhood Identity: People, Time and Place (York: Joseph Rowntree Foundation, 2008). 50 A. P. Cohen, ed, Belonging: Identity and Social Organisation in British Rural Cultures (Manchester: Manchester University Press, 1982), p.1.

 

11  

constructed by people.’51 His emphasis on cultural meaning rather than physical structure is

particularly interesting and is considered alongside other ‘constructions’ of community in a later

chapter. Theories around the ‘rise, decline and rebirth of community’ outlined by Delanty are also of

relevance,52 as is the related concept of ‘social capital’ which is explored in some detail in a collection

of essays edited by Baron, Field, and Schuller.53 As well as showcasing research from a variety of

disciplines, this volume provide a welcome overview of the ‘seminal perspectives’ of Bourdieu,

Coleman and Putnam whose work, though highly complex, must be given due consideration.54

Without going into more detail here, these various texts demonstrate how useful social theory can

be as a framework for understanding ‘community’ both historically and in the present, and make a

case for using it to direct and inform this study of change and continuity in lochside life.

Taking into account the historiographical context and methodological approach of this study, the

primary research was framed around specific lines of enquiry. Though these have evolved somewhat

over time, the main focus of this research has been to determine the physical and social dimensions

of life over the course of the twentieth century, consider change and continuity in relation to aspects

of everyday life (employment, transport, shopping, education and so on), and look specifically at how

community has been constructed and experienced in this particular lochside setting. Given the value

of working with a ‘whole mosaic’ of sources, the study pieces together evidence from a wide variety

of printed and written records as well as using historical maps, photographs and oral history

testimony to help answer the research questions.55 Though it is not possible to explore all these in

detail, it is useful to list the main ones and to evaluate a few in greater depth. Starting with the

printed and written records, the following primary sources have been used: Valuation Rolls, Census

Records, Statistical Accounts, local Account and Minute Books, School Log Books, local and national

publications, Communion Rolls and Proclamations Registers. Although the 1901 and 1911 Census

Records give a fairly detailed picture of the lochside population at the beginning of the period, the

‘100 year’ closure of subsequent records has demanded a more investigative approach for the later

decades.56 However, a surprising amount of information has been gleaned from the Valuation Rolls,

Kirk Records, Minute Books and oral history interviews as well as through informal discussion with

local informants. By cross-referencing this material, it has been possible to map demographic changes

as well as the shifting patterns of land ownership and use over the entire period. The Valuation Rolls

which ‘name or describe the property, the proprietor, the tenant or occupier and give an annual

rental value’ have been particularly elucidating and a year by year comparison of the tenancy and

ownership of each property from 1900-1988 has been made (after this date the Rolls omit details of

                                                            51 Cohen, The Symbolic Construction of Community, p.38. 52 G. Delanty, Community (London: Routledge, 2003), pp.4-5. 53 S. Baron, J. Field and T. Schuller, eds, Social Capital: Critical Perspectives (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2000). 54 The following are of particular interest: P. Bourdieu, Outline of a Theory of Practice (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1977); J. Coleman, ‘Social Capital in the Creation of Human Capital’, American Journal of Sociology, 94, pp.95-120; R. Putnam, Bowling Alone: The Collapse and Revival of American Community (New York: Simon and Schuster, 2000). 55 This is a phrase used by A. Marwick in ‘Primary Sources: Handle with Care’, in M. Drake, R. Finnegan and J. Eustace, eds, Sources and Methods for Family and Community Historians: a Handbook (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press/Open University, 1994), p.22. 56 D. Mills and M. Drake, ‘The Census, 1801-1991’, in Drake, Finnegan and Eustace, eds, Sources and Methods, p.25.

 

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the owner/tenant and are therefore not as useful).57 As will be shown in the next chapter, noting

changes on an annual basis can reveal a great deal about the internal dynamics of a small rural

community, capturing things that a ten-year Census snapshot cannot. Whilst these records do not

give a full account of the population, typically not mentioning wives and dependents though

sometimes referring to adult siblings living at the same address, they can be combined with other

sources to build up a more accurate picture. To give one example, the School Log Books from

Ardeonaig (1873-1986) and Ardtalnaig (1874-1940) record changes to the school roll, often with

details of why a particular child was being added or removed, and this can be used as a rough proxy

for the number of children living in the area. Furthermore, the fact that these changes were noted as

and when they happened, rather than the teacher simply stating the roll at the start and end of the

school year, means that it is possible to discern fluctuations in the population on a monthly, if not

weekly basis. Given that the quality of the Log Book entries varied over time, with some teachers

recording more than others, the information is by no means complete but the level of detail is

enough to draw some tentative conclusions from.58

Similar issues arise from the various Minute Books which have been read and analysed as part of

this study. Records survive for the Ardeonaig Village Hall Committee (Minute Book 1964-2012,

Account Book 1948-1984), the Bowlers’ Social Club (Minute book1961-1965), the Ardeonaig Kirk

Session (Minute book 1915-1966, Account book 1933-1966), the Ardeonaig Deacon’s Court (Minute

Book 1897-1966) and the Ardeonaig and Ardtalnaig Community Association (Minute Book1987-

2012). Given that some records have been lost or destroyed, their coverage of the period is

undeniably patchy. 59 Yet, despite this, and the fact that the level of detail given varies tremendously

depending on who was writing the minutes and keeping the accounts at the time, they all have a

great deal to offer. Whilst it may be difficult to conduct detailed quantitative analysis from such

sources, they do provide a wealth of qualitative information which is particularly valuable when

seeking to understand the dynamics of everyday life. As well as offering glimpses of the social

activities that punctuated people’s lives throughout the course of the twentieth century, the written

sources hint at the relationships between different members of the community and highlight the

issues which were open to public discussion (as well as giving some tantalising insights into more

private concerns). They also reveal key events, such as the closure of the local school and church,

which can be investigated further using other sources including local publications and national

newspapers. Indeed, rather than spend valuable research hours ‘browsing through columns of small

print’, this research has been focused in its use of newspapers by following up leads from other

sources and searching for particular events.60 Some local publications, including the Killin News which

                                                            57 Perth and Kinross Council, Family History Sources: Perth and Kinross Council Archive (May 2010), p.3. 58 Other school records for this period, including the registers which would provide a more accurate and detailed picture of the school roll, cannot be accessed at present due to data protection legislation. 59 Unfortunately, the records for the Ardeonaig Scottish Women’s Rural Institute for this period, which date from 1971, were recently destroyed by flood water. 60 J. Golby, ‘Newspapers’, in Drake and Finnegan, eds, Sources and Methods, p,98.

 

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has been published bi-monthly since 1991, were reviewed in detail, but the use of other newspapers

has been more selective.

The array of printed and written sources available clearly offers a wealth of information about life

on Lochtayside during the twentieth century. However, there is no hiding the fact that these records

can only provide a somewhat fragmented and distorted picture of what it was like to live along the

lochside. For this reason, oral history has been used to supplement and enhance the archival

evidence. In taking this approach, The Oral History Reader,61 a collection of essays on the subject, has

proved a valuable resource, alongside Thomson’s acclaimed Voice of the Past monograph,62 and Tosh’s

In Pursuit of History.63 Although many historians remain sceptical about the use of oral testimony in

research and are reluctant to ‘grapple with the implications of scholars sharing in the creation…of

new evidence’, there is much to merit its use in a micro-history such as this one.64 Whilst there are

many methodological and ethical challenges to overcome in its creation and interpretation, oral

history provides a unique opportunity to capture the thoughts and memories of people from all

walks of life and is thus a key source when seeking to understand the inner workings of ‘community’.

Above all, oral testimonies present a more holistic view of the past and convey ‘the essential

connectedness of aspects of daily life which the historian otherwise tends to know as discrete social

facts.’65 Memory may be flawed and prone to revision, yet it does offer an unparalleled insight into

the way people perceive the world and make sense of past events and experiences. It can also reveal

information that is not recorded elsewhere and gives clues as to how the historical jigsaw should be

pieced together.

Whilst oral testimony is a unique kind of source, at a fundamental level the same principles of

historical scholarship apply and over the last few decades a great deal of work has been done by oral

historians to develop and refine a standard methodological approach, setting guidelines for every step

of the process and promoting best practice. The oral history element of this research therefore

adheres closely to the Oral History Society Ethical Guidelines (which set standards for interviewing,

transcribing and storing recordings – see Appendix 1) and recording has been done in collaboration

with the Scottish Oral History Centre at Strathclyde University to ensure a professional approach.

As part of this, each interviewee was asked to sign an informed consent and recording agreement

form (see Appendix 2). Eight interviews were conducted (covering men and women of different

ages and backgrounds from both hamlets) and the recordings were transcribed in full to facilitate

detailed analysis. Given the age range of the inhabitants and the timespan of their memories, these

testimonies are most useful in examining lochside life during the second half of the twentieth century.

Yet, as well as exploring lived experiences, there is also tremendous value in considering the

inherited stories and local tales that people tell of earlier times; though rarely giving an accurate

                                                            61 R. Perks and A. Thomson, eds, The Oral History Reader (London: Routledge, 1998). 62 P. Thompson, The Voice of the Past: Oral History, 3rd edition (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2000). 63 J. Tosh, The Pursuit of History: Aims, Methods and New Directions in the Study of Modern History, 3rd edition (London: Longman, 1999). 64 Ibid, p.297. 65 Ibid. p.300.

 

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portrayal of past events, they reflect the way in which local history is constructed and conveyed

within a community, and are therefore of real interest to this study. As Michael Frisch asserts, ‘by

studying how experience, memory, and history become combined in and digested by people who are

bearers of their own history and that of their culture, oral history opens up a powerful

perspective.’66 When conducting oral history interviews, the dynamic between interviewer and

respondent clearly influences the way in which the testimonies are structured and expressed. Though

the interviews undertaken for this study were fairly unstructured, with questions arising from the

conversation rather than being read from a crib sheet, the topics discussed in most detail were those

considered of most relevance to the research. It is this role in source creation that troubles

historians most, with oral history being ‘informed by the historical perspectives of both

participants.’67 Yet, though this does call for careful analysis and a critical approach to oral history, it

gives a welcome depth and direction to the source material. As Paul Thompson points out, ‘a

historian who just engages in haphazard reminiscence will collect interesting pieces of information,

but will throw away the chance of winning the critical evidence for the structure of historical

argument and interpretation.’68 The insights to be gained from oral history, which reflect ‘the

subjective or personal meanings of lived experience’, rarely emerge from the written sources and

thus have a distinct value.69

Although this study has been a complex and challenging one, incorporating evidence from a variety

of written sources and drawing on oral history testimonies, the effort has been worthwhile. By

setting a clear framework for study, maintaining a high level of historical scholarship, and using social

theory to aid interpretation, it has been possible to reveal much about change and continuity in

lochside life during the twentieth century. Though other approaches could have been taken, this

methodology has been effective in offering a clear conceptualisation of the topic and encouraging a

discerning approach to the selection, interpretation and analysis of evidence. At the same time, the

interdisciplinary nature of the study has demanded a wider relevance beyond its ‘micro-focus’ and, in

doing so, has established a firm basis for future comparative research.

                                                            66 M. Frisch, ‘Oral History and Hard Times: a Review Essay’, in Perks and Thomson, eds, The Oral History Reader, p.36. 67 Ibid. 68 P. Thompson, ‘The Voice of the Past: Oral History’, in Perks and Thomson, eds, The Oral History Reader, pp.27-8. 69 R. Perks and A. Thompson, ‘Introduction’, in Perks and Thomson, eds, The Oral History Reader, p.ix.

 

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Chapter 2

Understanding the physical and social context

Before delving into the specifics of everyday life along the lochside over the course of the twentieth

century, it is important to build up a clear picture of the physical and social structures at play

throughout the period. Starting with a description of the physical landscape which defines the

settlements in Ardeonaig and Ardtalnaig, this chapter looks at changes in the population, including its

social composition, and relates these to shifting patterns of land ownership and use. An overview of

the administrative structures at play during this period is also given, charting the evolution of local

government and the impact of boundary reform.

In terms of their location, the neighbouring settlements of Ardeonaig and Ardtalnaig sit midway

along the southern shore of Loch Tay in Highland Perthshire, Scotland (see Figure 1). Nestled along

the lochside as well as up the tributary glens, both settlements have a recognisable centre with a

number of houses in close proximity. Beyond that, however, they spread out over a wide area and

are perhaps best described as ‘dispersed rural communities’.70 Although traditionally there were

Figure 1: Maps showing the location of Ardeonaig and Ardtalnaig, Loch Tay.71

                                                            70 This is how Ardeonaig was defined in the 1999 Stirling Council Local Plan, accessed at www.stirling.gov.uk/services/planning-and-the-environment/planning-and-building-standards/local-and-statutory-development-plans/local-plan-general-information on 13th June 2012. 71 Left to right: Bartholomew’s Revised “Half-Inch” Contoured Maps, Great Britain, Sheet 48, Perthshire (Edinburgh: John Bartholomew and Son Ltd, c.1957); OS Landranger Map, Sheet 51: Loch Tay & Glen Dochart (Southampton: Ordinance Survey, 2007).

 

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various land routes leading to and from both settlements, including tracks which followed the glens

up and over to Comrie in the south, by the start of the twentieth century only a single track road

which runs the length of the loch was in common use. At this early stage, people were still travelling

by boat as well as land, with the Loch Tay Steamers taking over from the earlier ‘ferry’ rowing boats

to provide transport across and to the end of the loch; established in 1888 by the Third Marquis of

Breadalbane ‘in order that his tenants on Lochtayside might be brought into contact with the Oban

and Callander railway’, these steamers sailed between Killin and Kenmore, stopping at Ardeonaig,

Lawers, Ardtalnaig and Fearnan on the way.72 However, when this service was discontinued at the

start of the Second World War, with the piers becoming ‘vacant’ and then ‘ruinous’ shortly

afterwards, the loch ceased to be a main transport route.73 Given that motorised transport on the

roads was developing apace from this point onwards, this shift away from the water is hardly

surprising. Yet, the implications were actually quite far-reaching, not only in terms of the physical

separation it brought between the north and south sides of the loch but also with regard to the

degree of ‘remoteness’ felt by people living in the area; in the following decades other transport

services were to disappear from South Lochtayside, and whereas the road on the north side was

upgraded to provide a fast and convenient route along the lochside, the southern route remained a

somewhat precarious single track road along which far fewer people deigned to travel.

Though most aptly described as hamlets today due to the small population and few local services,

the records show that both Ardeonaig and Ardtlanaig were thriving villages back in the nineteenth

century with numerous farms and crofts spread along the lochside and up the glens (see Figures 2

and 3). According to the 1841 Census, there were 72 dwellings and 288 people in Ardeonaig that

year, and a further 63 houses and 314 people in Ardtalnaig.74 With regard to the economic

stratification of the population, many occupations are listed revealing a mix of middle and working

class professions and trades.75 As well as the tenant farmers, there was a minister, a preacher and a

student of Divinity, school masters, numerous agricultural labourers and farm servants, graziers,

tailors, wrights, smiths, handloom weavers, dyers, shoemakers, crofters, cottagers, male and female

servants, a grocer, a mason, a miner, a carpenter, a sewing teacher, a midwife, a boat-keeper, a

hawker and an innkeeper. There were also a number of paupers, many of whom were elderly.

During the course of the century, however, things were to change quite dramatically, so that by the

beginning of the twentieth century the settlements were already a shadow of their former selves. To

show the contrast, in 1901 the Census listed 126 people living in 29 dwellings in Ardeonaig, and 98

people occupying 23 houses in Ardtalnaig.76 The range of occupations shown is also noticeably

different, with many of the more traditional trades and crafts no longer appearing, and a few new

                                                            72 Gillies, In Famed Breadalbane, p.231. 73 Valuation Roll of the County of Perth for the Year 1941‐1942, p.408, and Valuation Roll of the County of Perth for the Year 1942‐1943, p.410. 74 1841 Census, 361/00 001 and 360/00 004 accessed online at Scotland’s People. 75 This classification follows that used by Littlejohn in Westrigg: The Sociology of a Cheviot Parish, pp.78-9. 76 1901 Census, 361/00 001 and 360/00 004 accessed online at Scotland’s People.

 

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Figure 2: Detailed maps of Ardeonaig.77

                                                            77 OS 25 inch to the mile Perth and Clackmannan, Sheet 069.10 (Ordinance Survey, 1867, NLS ID: 74960686).

 

18  

Figure 3: Detailed maps of Ardtalnaig.78

professions now listed. There was a minster, tenant farmers, ploughmen, cattlemen, shepherds, farm

servants, housemaids and domestic servants, wire-fencers, crofters, mole-catchers, joiners,

gamekeepers, teachers, tailors, postmen, a post mistress, a miller, a roadman, a dressmaker, a

steward on the steamer, a hostler (innkeeper), a grocer, a piermaster and a retired railway guard.

Such population decline and changing patterns of employment were a feature of life in most rural

areas at this time, and as Devine notes ‘hardly any area of Scotland escaped the full impact of

                                                            78 OS 25 inch to the mile Perth and Clackmannan, Sheet 069.04 (Ordinance Survey, 1867, NLS ID: 74960634).

 

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demographic transformation in this period.’79 Starting with the so-called ‘Breadalbane Clearances’ in

the mid-nineteenth century, which saw a dramatic drop in the population when many crofters were

put off the land to allow for the expansion of sheep farming, the number of people on South

Lochtayside continued to fall steadily over the proceeding decades.80 Though many factors

contributed to this, urbanisation and the on-going process of ‘agricultural improvement’ undoubtedly

played a major role.81 The consolidation of farm land into fewer, larger tenancies and increasing

mechanisation of agriculture as the twentieth century progressed proved particularly significant as it

limited the number of people working in the industry and left many with no choice but to look for

employment elsewhere. Whilst a more detailed discussion of these changes is given in the next

chapter, in terms of the population the impact is clear to see as by the 1960s there were only 56

people living in Ardeonaig and just 15 in Ardtalnaig.82

Although detailed population statistics are not yet available for most of the twentieth century due

to the ‘100 year rule’ which limits access to the Census Records, a fairly accurate picture of the

population can be drawn using a combination of other sources, including the Valuation Rolls, School

Log Books, Kirk Records and oral history testimonies.83 Indeed, a local informant was used to

determine the population at the end of the twentieth century so that a comparison with earlier

figures could be made. Interestingly, the number of people living in the area appears to have changed

very little during the latter half of the century, with Ardeonaig having 53 inhabitants in 2000 and

Ardtalnaig a slightly increased number of 27.84 This levelling off of the population clearly marks a

different stage in the history of the lochside, and reflects the changes in land ownership, employment

and lifestyle that defined the later decades of the twentieth century. As already noted, the number of

crofts and farms on Lochtayside declined steadily from the mid-nineteenth century onwards, and it is

fascinating to look at the, often subtle, shifts in tenancy and ownership that lie behind this trend.

Drawing on the Valuation Rolls for Perthshire, and the later ones for Tayside and Central Region, it

has been possible to map in detail the annual changes in tenancy and ownership from 1900 to 1988,

when the records stop listing details of individuals and are therefore less useful. As well as giving a

glimpse of the population and a sense of how long people stayed in the area for, this year on year

comparison reveals some key points in the century when land changed hands and shifted the dynamic

of the community. It is particularly interesting to note the transition between the widespread

ownership of land and properties by the Breadalbane Estate, of which everyone was a tenant, and the

eventual owner-occupation of farms and houses in both settlements. Whilst the sale of the

Ardeonaig and Ardtalnaig portions of the estate happened fairly quickly, with Ardeonaig being sold

off in 1936 and Ardtalniag in 1942, it would take decades for the land and properties to come into

                                                            79 Devine, The Scottish Nation, p.253. 80 Gillies, In Famed Breadalbane, p.211 81 Fenton, Country Life in Scotland, pp.1-2. 82 General Register Office (Scotland), Place Names and Population Scotland: An Alphabetical List of Populated Places Derived from the Census of Scotland (Edinburgh: HMSO, 1967). 83 C. Sinclair, Tracing Scottish Local History: A Guide to Local History Research in the Scottish Record Office (Edinburgh: HMSO, 1994), p.30. 84 These figures were given by Margaret Taylor, who also recorded an oral history testimony.

 

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the hands of the local residents.85 In fact, a large proportion of the farm land in Ardtalnaig is still held

by a non-resident laird to this day.86

At the turn of the century, the Breadalbane Estate remained one of the largest in Scotland with

‘some 400,000 acres of land extending across Central Scotland from Aberfeldy to the Islands of Luing

and Seil on the west coast.’87 However, with the First World War heralding a new era of land

ownership, the estate started to be broken up in 1920 when financial pressure forced the Marquis to

sell ‘Taymouth Castle and the eastern portion of his Perthshire estates’ to ‘over forty different

owners.’88 The land and properties in Ardeonaig and Ardtalnaig were sold to separate buyers some

years later, and were then resold on various occasions during the decades that followed. Starting

with Ardeonaig, the initial owner of the Estate was Mrs Adria Elsa Price who then proceeded to build

a sizeable hunting lodge in the area, a mile up the brae.89 Above all, this signified a new chapter in the

history of Ardeonaig as it brought the laird firmly into the locality, whereas under the Breadalbanes

the ruling hand, via the estate factor, had been a fair distance away in either Killin or Kenmore.

Although it is hard to tell exactly how this change may have affected people’s lives, the fact that most

tenants continued in the same properties regardless suggests that life pretty much went on as before.

It was significant, however, that the new estate owner took more than a fleeting interest in the local

community. As well as becoming a member of the Ardeonaig church in 1941,90 Mrs Price played the

role of benevolent land owner which including throwing ‘a party for the children’ at the start of the

school Christmas holidays in 1942.91 Such benevolence was of course not a new thing, and the

Breadalbanes had a long history of supporting schools and churches throughout their vast estate.

Whilst this was at its peak in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, the Third Marquis and Lady

Breadalbane were acknowledged for gifting prizes and other such things to the local schools at the

beginning of the twentieth century. To give some examples, in June 1911 each child in Ardeonaig

School ‘received a medal from Lady Breadalbane’ at the start of the ‘Coronation holidays’,92 and

during the First World War the Marquis provided seeds so that the pupils could ‘be instructed in the

growing of vegetables.’93 Clearly, these were not personal gifts in the same sense and would most

likely have been part of a generic gesture across the whole estate. Yet, it is interesting to note the

continuity in benevolent behaviour between the different landlords, and to recognise its role in

defining the social strata of the community. Above all, the fact that physical changes in land

ownership were being bridged by such social continuities is important as it demonstrates the way in

which difference is balanced with similarity to ensure a sense of order. As Black and MacRaild point

out, whilst ‘this notion of time, of change and continuity, or similarity and difference, is the hardest

                                                            85 Valuation Roll of the County of Perth for the Year 1936‐1937, p.398, and Valuation Roll of the County of Perth for the Year 1942‐1943, p.408. 86 The current owner of the Ardtalnaig Estate is the Rt Hon Peregrin Moncrieff. 87 W. A. Gillies, In Famed Breadalbane, p.231. 88 Ibid, p.232. 89 It should be noted that this did not include the farm and house at Cambusurich, Croftfenig and Cloichran, which was retained by the Breadalbanes until 1945 when it was sold to an investment company. 90 Church of Scotland, Ardeonaig, Communion Roll 1934-1966 (Stirling Council Archives, CH2/1247/2). 91 Ardeonaig School Log Book 1927-1969 (Stirling Council Archives, PC3/17/13), p.146. 92 Ardeonaig School Log Book 1873-1927 (Stirling Council Archives, PC3/17/12), p.343. 93 Ibid, p.401.

 

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balance to achieve…it is central to our understanding of the nature of history and the dynamics of

social developments.’94

Looking forward over the following decades, this pattern of behaviour was repeated time and time

again. Indeed, the next owner of the Ardeonaig Estate, Madame Stuart Stevenson who bought it in

1947 following the death of Mrs Price, was perhaps the most prolific in her efforts to bestow a hand

of benevolence on the community.95 The most obvious outworking of this was the conveyance of a

plot of land in 1949 ‘for the erection and maintenance of a public hall thereon for the benefit of the

residents of the village of Ardeonaig and the district surrounding the same.’96 At a first glance, this

seems to be a most generous and welcome development for the area, and the proposal certainly met

with support from a number of local residents at the time. However, things are not always as they

seem, and according to one oral history informant, Kenneth Taylor, the hall turned out to be more

of a curse than a blessing:

I know my father was…on the committee, and there was, oh it was horrendous…she was

determined that Ardeonaig was going to have a hall and it ended up it was just a, it was a liability,

it was a noose around their necks really…It was actually an asbestos Nissan type building, and it

was damp and it was…but actually it served its purpose for quite a wee while, but it was a

continual, they were forever…spending money on it.97

So whilst the intention may have been good, and the gesture certainly established Madame Stevenson

as the principle landowner in the area, the practicalities of the project proved a real issue in the long

term and the hall was eventually sold for redevelopment in 1970 after the committee had struggled

for many years to keep it going.98

Staying with this theme, it is remarkable that even after the Estate was broken up, the symbolism

of a benevolent landowner was not lost. After Madame Stuart Stevenson sold off the land and

properties in 1956, retaining only the lodge for herself, the process of disintegration began.99 Though

slow at first, by the late sixties the transfer of ownership from laird to occupier was fairly complete,

with the farmers now being the main proprietors in the area. The Taylor family, who had first come

to Lochtayside in 1938 as tenants of Dall Farm, bought the majority of the farm land in Ardeonaig in

1968 and therefore became the principle landowner.100 Whilst subsequent owners of the lodge

continued to be afforded a certain importance in the community, most likely because of their

perceived wealth and status, the records suggest that it was now the farmers who held sway and the

Taylors in particular. That’s not to say that the local farmers hadn’t been influential while they were                                                             94 Black and MacRaild, Studying History, p.18. 95 Valuation Roll of the County of Perth for the Year 1947‐1948, p.410. 96 Extract of the Deed of Trust by Mrs Helen Constance Stirling Stuart or Stuart Stephenson in favour of Trustees for the Public Hall, Ardeonaig (Public Records of Scotland, General Register of Sasines, County of Perth, Book 1570, Folio 110-118, 27th June 1949). 97 Oral history testimony of Kenneth Taylor, interview conducted by Helen Young on 31st January, 2012. 98 This struggle comes across clearly in the Ardeonaig Village Hall Minute Book 1964-2010 (which is in the possession of the current Chair of the Ardeonaig Hall Trust). 99 Valuation Roll of the County of Perth for the Year 1956‐1957, pp.118-19. 100 Valuation Roll of the County of Perth for the Year 1968‐1969: Western District, p.291.

 

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still tenants, and certainly William Taylor (who is Kenneth’s Taylor’s father mentioned in the

quotation above) was a fairly dominant voice in community affairs. For instance, when plans were

being made to erect a new church building in Ardeonaig in the mid-sixties, it appears to have been

William’s reticence, most likely arising from concern that the community would be unable to

maintain it, which stopped the project going ahead. This is clear from the Deacon’s Minutes from 28th

February 1966 which record that, despite previous enthusiasm, when ‘Mr Taylor’s motion “not to

build” was then put before the congregation’ it ‘was so fully supported that it became the finding of

the meeting.’101 Nevertheless, returning to the idea of the benevolent landowner, it is telling that it

wasn’t until 1969 that the Taylor family, who were now landowners, began providing Christmas

presents for the schoolchildren and other gifts, such as ‘sweets’ at their end of year concert.102

Adopting this role sent out a clear message to the local residents, showing both a commitment and

concern for the community as well as implying a certain status within it.

This shift in tenure and subtle redefinition of social relations was clearly significant, and its impact

continued to be felt over the following decades. Disputes over property boundaries and rights of way

certainly became a much more common feature of community life, and the arrival of incomers was

often a trigger for this. For example, when Brae Lodge became an outdoor activity centre in 1984,

conflict arose with the owners of the hotel over the use of a long-established right of way down to

the lochside. As Phil Simpson, founder of the centre, recalls, they did “all they could to stop us

driving groups of children down to the lochside, and for five years or more…there was a lot of

resistance, it was a very difficult time.”103 It seems that subsequent owners of the hotel also tried to

deny them access, and this demonstrates not only the cyclical nature of such disputes, but also the

way in which property ownership contributed to, what sociologists identify as being, a ‘move

towards individualization from more collective concerns’ during the second half of the twentieth

century.104 Whilst conflict and competition between neighbours may not have been a new thing,

ownership by the masses as opposed to the privileged few of old certainly brought a new dimension

to life along the lochside. As well as grappling with the financial and practical implications of being

owners rather than tenants, for instance incurring debt to purchase and having greater responsibility

for maintenance, local residents were forced to redefine their relationships with one another and

deal with any tensions that arose. The change may not have been dramatic, and the shift in social

relations very subtle at first. However, as ownership became more established and took on greater

significance towards the end of the century, particularly following the property boom of the late

1980s which transformed the housing market in Scotland and turned even the most humble of homes

into a valuable financial commodity, the social impact grew. To give an example, whereas the first

generation of Taylor brothers who farmed in Ardeonaig operated as joint tenants and purchased the

                                                            101 Ardeonaig Free Church Deacon’s Court Records 1897-1966 (Stirling Council Archives, CH3/1243/7). 102 Ardeonaig School Log Book 1927-1969 (Stirling Council Archives, PC3/17/13), p.316. 103 Oral history testimony of Philip Simpson, interview conducted by Helen Young on 26th October, 2011. 104 M. K. Smith, ‘Community’ in the encyclopedia of informal education (2001), p.4, accessed at http://www.infed.org/community/ community.htm on 28th September 2010.

 

23  

land together when the opportunity arose, the brothers who then inherited the property split it into

two separate farms, essentially shifting the focus away from the extended family and onto the nuclear

one. There were a number of implications to this, including the fact that one of the brothers was

later identified as the feu superior of the land on which the school and schoolhouse were built and

was therefore given “first right of refusal’’ to buy them.105 This was done without any consultation

with the wider community despite the fact that the school had continued to be used as a local facility

since its closure in 1986. Not surprisingly then, when the sale was announced at the Annual General

Meeting of the Community Association in June 1993, it ‘caused quite a stir’ and, although the official

records do not reveal this, it is likely that there would have been some sense of unease about having

to lease the building from one of their own.106 In simple terms, such changes in land ownership not

only altered the power dynamics within the community, but also led to a divergence of interests

within families as well as between neighbours.

Moving now to reflect on changes in land ownership in Ardtalnaig over this same period, a number

of distinctive elements stand out. Whereas Ardeonaig had been sold off in1936, Ardtalnaig remained

part of the Breadalbane Estate until 1942 when it was bought in its entirety by Reginald Toms of

London (later listed as R. & M. Tom’s Trust).107 Despite this change, however, little appears to have

altered on the ground; the estate continued to be managed by a factor in Killin, the lodge and

shootings were rented out to season tenants as before, and the new owner did not take up

residence as the laird in Ardeonaig had done a few years earlier. The fact that the country was now

embroiled in a Second World War may well have influenced this, and it is significant that by 1945

many of the old crofts had become vacant and were recorded as being ‘ruinous’. According to the

Valuation Roll for 1945-1946, the house at Leckbuie, one at Kindrochit and three up the glen at

Claggan were no longer habitable.108 Dunan was the first of the crofts at Claggan to be declared

ruinous in 1936, having become vacant in 1931, and this was closely followed by Tomflour in 1938

and then Claggan in 1945.109 As well as demonstrating the changing nature of farming at this time and

the subsequent decline in population as fewer agricultural workers were employed, the fact that

these houses fell into disrepair and dereliction so quickly suggests that they were already in a poor

condition and were not considered worthy of investment. It is also significant that the school in

Ardtalnaig was closed at this time, in June 1940 when there were only three pupils left on the roll,

which resulted in the children being sent to Ardeonaig for their primary schooling.110 Without going

into too much detail here, this was to prove significant in establishing a new link between the two

settlements at a time when many of the old certainties were falling away. Given that land ownership

developed in a very different way in Ardtalnaig over the following decades, this formal connection

was important in providing a sense of shared experience and continuity. In contrast to Ardeonaig, the

                                                            105 Oral history testimony of Philip Simpson. 106 Ardeonaig and Ardtalnaig Community Association, Annual General Meeting Minute Book 1987-2011. 107 Valuation Roll of the County of Perth for the Year 1942‐1943, p.408. 108 Valuation Roll of the County of Perth for the Year 1945‐1946, p.408. 109 Valuation Roll of the County of Perth for the Year 1936‐1937, p.396; 1931-1932, p.388, 1938-1939, p.400; and 1945-1946, p.408. 110 Ardtalnaig School Log Book 1912-1940 (Perth & Kinross Council Archive, CC1/5/7/158), p.144

 

24  

first property to be sold off separate from the Ardtalnaig Estate changed hands in 1944 when the

tenant of Milton Farm, Major James Darling, bought the pier master’s cottage (which had become

vacant after the steamers stopped in 1939).111 Then in 1951 many other individual properties were

sold off, with the main farm at Claggan and other holdings being retained by Mr Toms under the new

name of Morefarm Property Company. Although some of the new owners were the sitting tenants,

including Major Darling who now bought Milton Farm, a number of them were outside investors who

then simply rented the properties out or kept them for later development. For example, Skiag was

bought by John Dye of Crieff and James Duncan of Perth got his hands on the ruinous house at

Leckbuie.112 It was around this time that one of the current residents of Ardtalnaig, Mervyn Browne,

moved to the area and his oral testimony gives a real sense of what the hamlet was like. He recalls,

“my first impression of the whole of this hamlet and the glen was like something out of…oh,

what?...maybe Grimm’s Fairy Tales…just asleep…rather nice, but very much asleep.”113 His memory

of the people is equally enthralling:

My next door neighbour’s shepherd was a man Murdo McLeod from Island of Raasay. And then in

the village there was a crofter Sandy McLaren and beside him there was a family Duncan Fisher or

Dochy Fisher who was the county roadman and his stepson Alec Morrison and another stepson

Hamish Shorthouse who is actually still in Aberfeldy…There was an old keeper Duncan McNab

who was later to become a very good friend of mine and that was about it. Up the glen at Claggan

there was the tenant farmer Neil Forbes and his wife and he had two daughters and a son. One of

his daughters was away and the other one was still there and the son was still there. And two

shepherds, a married shepherd, Will Jamieson, and a single man…Jordie.114

Given that detailed Census material for this decade will not be available for another forty years, such

a description offers a valuable glimpse of the mid-century population of Ardtalnaig. Above all, it

shows that the majority of people were still connected in some way to farming, and the few who

weren’t, such as the roadman, worked locally.

During the fifties, a few more tenants were able to purchase their houses, including Duncan Fisher

and Hamish Shorthouse mentioned above, and the Forestry Commission, which had been founded in

1919 ‘with the intension of making good the devastation of timber that occurred during the war’, 115

first entered the scene in 1957 when it acquired the land at Ardradnaig and Kepranich to the east.116

It is significant, however, that a large proportion of the farmland remained tenanted as part of the

Ardtalnaig Estate. In contrast to Ardeonaig, the estate was to remain in the hands of a laird

throughout the twentieth century and into the next, although it did pass between different owners

during this time; in 1971 it was bought by Colonel Julian Berry and later sold to Peregrin Moncreiff

                                                            111 Valuation Roll of the County of Perth for the Year 1944‐1945, p.409. 112 Valuation Roll of the County of Perth for the Year 1951‐1952, pp.119-120. 113 Oral history testimony of Mervyn Browne, interview conducted by Helen Young on 23rd June, 2011. 114 Ibid. 115 G. Sprott, ‘Lowland Country Life’ in Devine and Finlay, eds, Scotland in the Twentieth Century, p.179. 116 Valuation Roll of the County of Perth for the Year 1955‐1956, p.114; Valuation Roll of the County of Perth for the Year 1957‐1958, p.117.

 

25  

who is the current laird.117 The continuing influence of a non-resident landlord certainly seems to

have impacted upon the community in Ardtalnaig, and it is telling that those who came to work for

the laird were not always viewed favourably by the locals. This was certainly the experience of

Margaret McLaughlin and her husband Joe who came to work at Claggan in 1969. Although they

were later to become established members of the community, Margaret remembers that Sandy

McLaren, an elderly crofter, “didn’t totally approve of Joe and I for two reasons: first of all Joe was

working for the estate and that was not quite the thing; and secondly, neither of us were living in the

parish where we’d been born.”118 At the same time, the growing phenomenon of weekend and

holiday homes in rural Scotland was beginning to make its mark on Lochtayside. This trend, which

was particularly pronounced from the 1970s onwards, affected both Ardtalniag and Ardeonaig and

led to a significant proportion of the housing stock being bought up for this purpose. As well as

affecting the availability and affordability of homes for local people, this changed the social dynamic

within the community and altered wider perceptions of rural living, including the emergence of the

idea that people made a lifestyle choice to live in such scenic rural locations. These factors are

extremely important in seeking to understand the changing dynamics of life during the second half of

the century and are therefore considered in greater detail later.

Having identified the key changes in population and land ownership over the course of the

twentieth century, it is useful to close this chapter with an overview of the administrative structures

which underpinned these developments. Whereas the civil parish was the principal administrative

unit at the start of the century, by the later decades power had shifted firmly into the hands of the

large regional councils, which then became unitary authorities in 1996. Whilst the sequence of

changes echoed that which took place across Scotland during this period, the impact on South

Lochtayside was somewhat unique given the positioning of administrative boundaries and their

evolving significance. Following the Local Government (Scotland) Act of 1889, which established a

system of county councils across Scotland, both Ardeonaig and Ardtalnaig fell under the authority of

Perthshire and were governed locally by Kenmore Parish Council.119 Then in 1930, when parish

councils were replaced by elected district councils, the area became part of the Highland District

under the newly created joint county council of Perth and Kinross. Although little changed during the

following decades, the reconfiguration of the district council boundaries in 1960, which saw

Ardeonaig move into the Western District whilst Ardtalnaig remained in Highland District, was to

prove very significant in the longer term.120 It certainly paved the way for the more dramatic split

which came between the two communities when the local government reorganisation of 1975

created large regional councils and divided the old county of Perthshire between Central Region and

Tayside. At this time, the Western District was simply moved en bloc into Central Region creating

                                                            117 Valuation Roll of the County of Perth for the Year 1971‐1972: Highland District, p.125. 118 Oral history testimony of Margaret McLaughlin, interview conducted by Helen Young on 29th November, 2011. 119 General Register Office for Scotland, Scottish Civil Parishes Index Map, accessed online at www.scrol.gov.uk/scrol/metadata/maps/Scotland%20-%20Civil%20Parishes.pdf on 13th June 2012. 120 Valuation Roll of the County of Perth for the Year 1961-1962: Highland District, p.110-11, Valuation Roll of the County of Perth for the Year: 1961-1962: Western District, p.242-3.

 

26  

a more substantial boundary between Ardeonaig and Ardtalnaig than there had ever been (see

Figure 1 which marks the boundary with a black dashed line). The initial impact may not have been

great given that a fairly flexible approach was taken at first to manage service provision, most notably

education, across such boundaries. For instance, the primary pupils from Ardtalnaig still attended the

school in Ardeonaig up until its closure in 1986, and the secondary pupils from Ardeonaig were still

able to go to high school in Aberfeldy for many years to come despite it being in Tayside rather than

Central Region. Yet, by the time unitary authorities came in, with Stirling replacing Central Region

and Perth and Kinross taking over from Tayside in 1996, the boundary had become much more rigid

and created a clear division between the two neighbouring hamlets.

Clearly the twentieth century witnessed quite dramatic changes to the physical, social and

administrative reality of of life on South Lochtayside. Whilst some of these had an immediate impact,

other aspects occurred at a much slower pace and were woven together with certain continuities to

help ensure an overall sense of stability and order.

 

27  

Chapter 3

Patterns of everyday life

In recent years, social historians have taken a much greater interest in the ‘ordinary, routine, daily

behaviour, experiences and beliefs of Scottish people’, and it is the intention of this chapter to look

beyond the broad trends in land ownership and population already identified to discern something of

the everyday experience of life along the lochside and how this changed over time.121 Given that life

is a pretty all-encompassing term the potential topics for discussion are near endless, as illustrated by

the Compendium of Scottish Ethnology which runs to an impressive fourteen volumes, and this study

will therefore focus on four key themes arising from the primary and secondary research.122 Starting

with employment and the specifics of the rural economy in this area, which dovetails neatly with the

previous chapter, analysis is then made of change and continuity in relation to transport, shopping

and education (other related topics, including entertainment and religion, are also explored as part of

the discussion of community in the next chapter). Oral history, which as Abrams and Brown note is

‘an invaluable methodology for those wishing to chart everyday experiences in the recent past, since

it allows us to hear Scots’ own perceptions and interpretations of the everyday and often privileges

the banal over the spectacular’, forms the basis for this and is supported by evidence from a range of

other written and printed sources.123

Since the mid-eighteenth century, rural life in Scotland has undergone a dramatic transformation.

Indeed, according to Alexander Fenton, ‘whereas before 1750, change had an evolutionary

character…after that date the change was much more like a revolution in nature.’124 Yet, although

agricultural improvement alongside increasing industrialisation and urban growth in Scotland did have

a significant impact on the rural economy throughout this period, at the start of the twentieth

century agriculture was still very much at the heart of life on Lochtayside (see Figures 4 and 5

which show the crofting landscape of Ardeonaig at this time). According to the 1901 Census, most

households in Ardeonaig and Ardtalnaig were still linked to farming in some way with farmers,

shepherds, ploughmen, agricultural labourers and other related trades appearing on every page.125

Crofting was also well-established and, as was typical in rural areas at this time, the majority of

people had access to a plot of land for subsistence use, including the Ardeonaig schoolmaster,

George Kerr, who held some land at Dalcroy until his death in 1910.126 In this way, even those

people who weren’t directly employed in agriculture, such as the miller, the roadman and the

dressmaker, had a productive link to the land as well as earning their living locally. Another                                                             121 Whatley and Foyster, ‘Foreword’, in Abrams and Brown, eds, A History of Everyday Life, p.ix. 122 The European Ethnological Research Centre, Scottish Life and Society: A Compendium of Scottish Ethnology, 14 volumes (Edinburgh: John Donald, 2005). 123 L. Abrams and C. G. Brown, ‘Conceiving the Everyday in the Twentieth Century’, in Abrams and Brown, eds, A History of Everyday Life, p.12. 124 Fenton, Country Life in Scotland, p.181. 125 1901 Census, 361/00 001 and 360/00 002 accessed online at Scotland’s People. 126 Valuation Roll of the County of Perth for the Year 1901‐1902: Highland District, p.306 and Ardeonaig School Log Book 1873-1927 (Stirling Council Archives, PC3/17/12), p.332.

 

 

distinctiv

Gary W

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Fig

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               127 West, An128 Ardeonaig129 Ibid, p.32130 Ibid, p.33131 Ardtalnaig132 Oral hist133 Ibid. 134 Photo ta

ve feature of

est highlights

old and comm

and children

of children f

as being ‘abs

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                      n Historical Ethnogg School Log Book21. 33. ig School Log Booktory testimony o

aken from B. Byro

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with great reg

                       graphy of Rural Pe

k 1873-1927 (Stir

k 1912-1940 (Perf Mervyn Browne

om, Old Killin, Ken

e beginning o

rical Ethnogra

s.’127 A key p

hold, and the

ment purpose

to lifting’,128 i

farm’,129 in Ju

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the Post O

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gularity from

erthshire p.284. rling Council Arch

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nmore and Loch Ta28

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uly 1910 it w

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armers sent

Office in Ard

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the case in th

m farm to farm

hives, PC3/17/12)

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/158), p.34.

04), p.39.

se of non-wa

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pupils were

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in August 19

rrangements

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Mervyn Brow

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.”133

y.134

nt nature

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29  

periodically for work.135 This can clearly be seen in both the Valuation Rolls and School Log Books

which record almost constant changes in the local population. The school roll figures are particularly

interesting in this regard as they reveal regular fluctuations in the number of pupils attending the two

schools and provide valuable snippets of information about what brought children to the area and

why they then left. Although some families stayed for a number of years, others came for just a few

short weeks. For example, in December 1921 the teacher made a note that, ‘Mary Stewart who will

be residing here for some weeks has been admitted to this school’ and a month later her brother

‘Tom Stewart was admitted temporarily.’136 The children were then removed from the roll at the

end of April 1922 when they ‘returned to Gallowflat School, Rutherglen’ only to reappear that

November ‘because they were residing in the district for most part of the winter.’137 There are

numerous other entries along these lines and there can be little doubt that such movement was an

accepted facet of rural life during the first half of the century. Such seasonal migration was soon to

become a thing of the past, however, as the nature of farming, and employment more generally with

‘the coming of the Welfare State and the managed economy’, was transformed from the Second

World War onwards.138 Mechanisation is often cited as the fundamental driver of this change and

although, according to Mervyn Browne, the advent of the tractor during the 1950s “didn’t really

affect the number of people employed” on South Lochtayside as they were already few in number by

this time, the associated rise of the agricultural contractor had a definite impact on the use of both

temporary and reciprocal labour. In Mervyn’s words, these practices were “beginning to feel the

draft in the seventies” as farmers came to rely on the “contractors that come in, for the machine

shearing and so on.”139 Nevertheless, it is interesting that whilst “the old neighbouring has died a

natural death” during the latter half of the century, some elements of reciprocal working have

continued to the present day due to the relatively small-scale and family-orientated nature of the

farms.140

The steady decline in the number of people employed in agriculture had a discernible impact on

the population of Ardeonaig and Ardtalnaig which dropped from 223 in 1911 to around 71 in

1961.141 At the same time, crofting on Lochtayside, which lacked the protection and support afforded

to it in the Crofting Counties, rapidly diminished and many of the traditional crafts and trades which

had supported a subsistence lifestyle at the start of the twentieth century became redundant in the

wake of technological change. It certainly became less economically viable to operate as a tradesman

locally and with fewer agricultural jobs available as the century progressed many people were forced

to look further afield for work. As neatly summed up in The Perthshire Book, this trend affected most

of rural Scotland as ‘poor living and social conditions, low wages and lack of opportunity for

                                                            135 Fenton, Country Life in Scotland, p.55. 136 Ardeonaig School Log Book 1873-1927 (Stirling Council Archives, PC3/17/12), p.450. 137 Ibid, p.458. 138 R. J. Finlay, ‘Continuity and Change in Scottish Politics’, in Devine and Finlay, eds, Scotland in the Twentieth Century, p.81. 139 Oral history testimony of Mervyn Browne. 140 Ibid. 141 Figures taken from the 1911 Census, 361/00 001 and 360/00 004 accessed online at Scotland’s People, and from General Register Office (Scotland), Place Names and Population Scotland.

 

30  

advancement or full time alternatives to work in land-based industries have inevitably tended to force

residents, especially the young and economically active, to leave rural areas.’142 As will be explored

later, the particular rurality of Ardeonaig and Ardtalnaig posed a distinct challenge for those seeking

employment and, although both were to become a favoured location for weekend or holiday homes,

they were simply too remote to operate as commuter settlements. As one local resident

commented, “you’d have to be determined to commute.”143 This observation is also backed up by

the oral testimony of Eilidh Campbell, a hill sheep farmer in Ardeonaig, who commented in relation

to the local farming families that, “it is very hard for people that maybe have bigger families, they

can’t all sort of, maybe some of them want to come and live in the area but there has to be the work

for them really…they have to go where it is, it’s not always possible…to live here.”144 While many

historians, including Devine, have tended to view such rural depopulation as a consequence of the

young going in search ‘of a more interesting life’, this study suggests that more people would have

stayed in the area had they been able to find adequate employment.145 In fact, it is telling that even

towards the end of the twentieth century many local children who left the area as adults moved not

to the towns and cities but to other rural locations for work. The McLaughlins from Ardtalnaig are a

case in point; of their three sons, one stayed in the area to work with his father and the other two

found agricultural jobs elsewhere. As their mother Margaret explained, “three of our boys are doing

something very like their dad…one at Castles, at Dalmally… Joe here, and Hamish is over in West

Glenalmond, looking after two smaller hill farms.”146 Another resident, Donald Hancock who moved

to Ardeonaig as a teenager in 1971, also managed to find work locally; having gained an

apprenticeship at Lix Toll garage on the outskirts of Killin, he trained as a Motor Vehicle Technician

before branching out on his own “helping people on farms and whatnot…fencing, building work.”147

Nevertheless, such opportunities for local employment were clearly limited and not suited to

everyone.

Although the decline in job opportunities had a substantial impact on the area during the second

half of the century, some important developments from the eighties onwards added a new dimension

to the local economy. The most notable of these was the establishment of an Abernethy Outdoor

Centre at Brae Lodge in Ardeonaig in 1984. Despite the fact that at first “the centre was very small,

and the staff was small”, it gradually expanded and was responsible for bringing a significant number

of people to live and work along the lochside over the years.148 At the same time, some of the local

farmers began to diversify their activities. For instance, one of Kenneth Taylor’s sons set up a

                                                            142 P. Duncan, ‘The Rural Economy’, in D. Omand, ed., The Perthshire Book (Edinburgh: Birlinn, 1999), p.113. 143 Oral history testimony of Philip Simpson. 144 Oral history testimony of Eilidh Campbell, interview conducted by Helen Young on 17th January, 2012. 145 Devine, The Scottish Nation, p.466. 146 Oral history testimony of Margaret McLaughlin. 147 Oral history testimony of Donald Hancock, interview conducted by Helen Young on 26th January, 2012. 148 Oral history testimony of Philip Simpson.

 

 

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               149 Photo ta150 Oral hist151 Oral hist152 A. McIvo153 McCron

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                      aken from Byromtory testimony o

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a, and consid

riod. As deta

nineteenth

he other. Ac

ool of Scottis

at in Ardeon

of the agree

eone summo

she was doin

y horse and

o revolution

as Aberfeldy

Loch Tay Ste

travel netwo

and two large

at both Arde

ourists alike f

9.158 The time

or Glasgow,

er. Anne Ross, Septem

Account of Scotlan

on Loch Ta

.154

rly played a d

deration will

ailed earlier, t

century with

ccording to t

sh Studies in

naig towards

ement when

oned her gra

ng and went

cart which w

ise travel fro

in the east b

amboat Com

ork in the reg

er ones for t

eonaig and A

for many dec

etable from

taking a circ

mber 1964,

nd: The Counties o

ay

defining role

now be give

travel via bo

h small rowin

the oral testi

n1964, her

the end of t

they took th

andmother w

and took th

was to remai

om the 1920

by 1865 and

mpany in 188

gion.156 The

the summer

Ardtalnaig on

cades until t

1909 (see Fi

cular route v

of Perth & Kinross

in

en to the

oat on

ng boat

imony of

the

he croft,

with a

em

n the

0s

Killin to

88, was

tourist

their

he

igure 7)

via Killin

(1979),

 

 

and Abe

wished t

from eve

into Killi

home lat

Althou

under th

depend e

the loch

lochside

trade on

motor b

establish

miles apa

longer a

routes, t

resident

was used

all block

engine.”

decades,

concern

Certainly

which w

1964; wh

               159 Taken fr160 Gillies, ‘T161 Oral hist

erfeldy and al

to do so. In t

ery destinatio

in and then b

ter the same

Figure 7:

ugh the passe

he Beeching a

entirely on a

were long g

life. While p

n the steamb

buses and lor

hed relations

art via road)

means of tr

the single tra

s of Ardeona

d to transpo

ked so the ma

161 Despite t

, the increase

given that m

y by the mid

was clearly ex

hen talking a

                      rom P. Waylett, TThe Parish of Kentory testimony o

llowing peop

terms of loca

on, it would

back again in

e day.

Timetable

Edinb

enger and fre

axe in 1965,

access to som

gone and the

people may n

oats’ had alr

rries for pass

hip between

) and further

ansport, and

ack road alon

aig and Ardt

rt things afte

ail and other

this incident,

ed dependen

motorised ve

d-sixties othe

xpressed in t

about the ste

                       The Killin Branch: Anmore’, in D. B. Tf Mervyn Browne

ple to stop of

al travel, alth

have been p

the afternoo

from Brads

burgh, Glas

eight trains t

once the ste

me form of m

e disappearan

not have app

ready fallen a

sengers and g

n the commu

r diminish the

d the old hill

ng the south

alnaig. Indee

er that “was

r various thin

and other tr

ncy on road

ehicles were

er forms of t

he oral histo

eamers, the i

A Personal RecollecTaylor, The Third e.

33

ff somewher

hough the tim

possible for l

on, or to tra

dshaw’s Guid

sgow and Lo

to Killin and

eamboat ser

motorised ro

nce of the ste

preciated the

away a great

goods’, in hin

unities on eit

e role of the

tracks long-

ern shore be

ed, as Mervyn

in 1947 whi

ngs came up

ravelling diffi

transportatio

seen to surp

transport we

ory interview

nterviewer a

ction (Witney: Lad Statistical Accoun

re along the

mings did not

ochsiders to

avel to the ot

de showing

och Tay, 19

Aberfeldy co

rvices had sto

oad transpor

eamers there

e significance

deal due to

ndsight it wa

ther side of t

e loch in peo

abandoned i

ecame the o

n Browne re

ch was a ver

just on a ro

iculties whic

on does not

pass anything

ere not consi

w with Marga

asks, “and th

amplight), p.29. t, p.176.

lochside for

t allow for tw

o take the ea

ther side of t

the service

909.159

ontinued unt

opped local t

rt. By this tim

efore herald

at the time,

‘improved tr

as to mark th

the loch (whi

ple’s lives.160

n favour of l

nly way in an

counts, the o

ry bad winter

wing boat, a

h arose over

appear to h

g there had b

idered neces

aret MacDer

hey don’t rea

a few hours

wo-way trav

arly morning

the loch and

e between

til both lines

travel came t

me, the ferrie

ed a new er

, particularly

ransport pro

he end of the

ich were now

0 With the lo

ess direct bu

nd out for th

only time th

r and the ro

an outboard

r the coming

have been a c

been previou

ssary, a senti

rmid recorde

ally need the

s if they

vel to and

steamer

d return

came

to

es across

a in

as ‘the

ovided by

e long-

w many

och no

ut faster

he

e loch

ads were

g

cause for

usly.

ment

ed in

m now I

 

 

suppose

have one

nineteen

technolo

As noted

to focus

century

was inva

however

revolutio

of centu

Ardeona

previous

The di

century

was a ke

south sid

Kenmor

go into K

               162 Oral histwww.tobar163 Whatley164 Taken fr

?”, and Marg

e running.”16

nth and into t

ogical innova

d by the edit

on the’ broa

to be a perio

ariably slow,

r, and seekin

on in transpo

ry, a process

aig and Ardta

sly been.

iminishing im

as private ca

ey part of thi

de of the loc

re had to tak

Kenmore, it

                      tory testimony o

randualchais.co.uky and Foyster, ‘Forom J. Burnie, Pos

garet answer

62 The fact th

the twentiet

tion more as

tors of the re

ad trends, bi

od of rapid t

piecemeal an

ng to discern

ort was to pl

s which was

alnaig more i

Figure 8:

mportance an

ars, and incre

s peripherali

ch (in fact, as

ke when visit

went over b

                       f Margaret MacDk/fullrecord/1550oreword’, in L. Abstbus Country: Glim

s, “not really

hat the proce

th century m

s a natural p

ecent series

ig ideas and e

transformatio

nd indigenou

the wider im

lay a key role

to have the

isolated and

: The Arde

nd availability

easingly mor

isation. Whe

Margaret Ta

ing family at

by Fearnan”),

Dermid, interview/1. brams and C. G. mpses of Rural Sco

34

y, unless for

ess of change

must also have

rogression r

on everyday

eye-catching

on, it is cruc

us rather tha

mplications o

e in the later

reverse effe

less connect

eonaig Post

y of public tr

re than one p

ereas mid-ce

aylor recoun

Mid Lix as “

, by the early

w conducted by A

Brown, eds, A Hiotland (Edinburgh:

a pleasure b

e was somew

e fed into th

rather than a

y life in Scotl

g technologie

ial to recogn

n spectacula

of these chan

r centralisati

ect of making

ted, relativel

t Bus, early

ransport serv

per househo

ntury it was

nts this was t

the bus from

y sixties “the

Anne Ross, Septem

istory of Everyday : Canongate, 199

boat, that wo

what gradual

is, allowing p

dramatic br

and, althoug

es’ which sho

nise that ‘cha

r.’163 Looking

nges, it is cle

on of service

g small rural

y speaking, t

1990s.164

vices toward

ld, became t

possible to g

the route he

m Killin going

e buses were

mber 1964,

Life, p.xi. 4), p.58.

ould be very

through the

people to se

reak from th

gh it can be t

ow the twent

ange on the g

g longer term

ear that the

es towards t

communities

than they had

s the end of

the accepted

get a bus do

er aunts from

g to Aberfeld

e off” the Ar

nice to

e

e

e past.

empting

tieth

ground

m,

the end

s such as

d

f the

norm

own the

m

dy didn’t

rdeonaig

 

 

road and

introduc

to Killin

Writing

retireme

Ardtalna

Hotel to

service f

whilst M

own, ind

for an M

the buse

went off

their ow

As car

onwards

and the

of the ce

               165 Oral hist166 Ibid, p.11167 Ian McG168 Oral hist169 Oral hist170 Oral hist171 Photo ta

d would not

ced as part o

or Callande

for the Killin

ent in 1996,

aig, then it w

o take anyone

for those wit

Margaret Tayl

dependent”,1

MOT or what

es and the ste

f like that” le

wn transport

rs and other

s, the nature

evolving rura

entury, the a

                      tory testimony o11. regor, ‘Bye, bye, tory testimony otory testimony otory testimony oaken from Byrom

return.165 So

of a wider init

r (initially re

n News in 20

described ho

was down to

e that had co

thout their o

lor’s children

68 Margaret

tever, you’d

eamers befo

eaving people

or to rely o

Figur

motorised t

of other loc

al economy

advent of the

                       f Margaret Taylo

Post Bus’, in Killif Margaret Taylof Margaret McLauf Margaret Taylo

m, Old Killin, Kenmo

ome years lat

tiative to imp

turning the s

005, Ian McG

ow ‘in the ea

Callander an

ome on the

own transpor

n used it to “

McLaughlin f

get the post

re them, afte

e at the start

n lifts.170

re 9: Ardta

transport bec

cal services a

had already a

e motor vehi

r, interview cond

n News, Issue 89 r. ughlin. r. ore and Loch Tay,

35

ter, in the m

prove rural t

same day, bu

Gregor, who

arly days the

nd Brig o Tur

morning run

rt, people w

“go up to do

from Ardtaln

t van back ho

er a number

t of the twen

alnaig Post

came more c

also began to

altered the s

cle did not i

ducted by Helen Y

(December, 200

p.44.

mid-seventies

transport an

ut latterly on

drove the P

post bus ro

rk…after lun

n’ (see Figur

ith cars also

o their Christ

naig rememb

ome and get

r of years the

nty-first cent

Office c.19

commonplac

o change. Re

settlements a

n itself trans

Young on 12th Jan

05), p.5.

, a formal Po

d this allowe

nly facilitating

Post Bus from

ute was Killi

nch it was ba

re 8).167 As w

made use of

tmas shoppin

bers taking it

it up again.”

e Post Bus “j

ury with no

930.171

ce from the i

cognising tha

a great deal s

form life on

nuary, 2012.

ost Bus servi

ed people to

g one-way tr

m 1975 until

n to Ardeon

ack to the Ar

well as being

f it; for insta

ng in Killin, o

t if “the van w

169 However

ust stopped,

option but t

inter-war pe

at population

since the beg

South Locht

ce was

o travel

ravel).166

his

naig and

rdeonaig

a valued

nce,

on their

was in

r, as with

, it just

to use

eriod

n decline

ginning

tayside;

 

 

the num

simultan

depende

travel as

Shopping

unparalle

experien

system a

rural life

Office in

daughter

surround

Office at

to take h

Killin and

Figure

               172 1901 Ce173 1911 Ce174 From lefAndrews: A

ber of reside

eous erosion

ency on good

s the century

g is perhaps

eled rise in c

nces and exp

and small ten

e on South Lo

n Ardtalnaig r

r Annie was

ding area as

t Craggan (as

his goods fur

d Aberfeldy

e 10: Delive

                      nsus, 360/00 002 nsus 360/00 002 ft to right. photosAlvie, 1985), p.113

ent tradesme

n of the crof

ds and servic

y progressed

the most ob

consumerism

pectations. A

nanted farms

ochtayside. A

run by the e

the Postmist

no mention

s shown in F

rther afield, a

which broug

ery services

and t

                        accessed online accessed online as taken from R. L3 and Mackenzie

en and crafts

fting lifestyle

ces from out

played a sig

bvious of the

m which was

As already no

continued t

According to

lderly Donal

tress (see Fi

is made of a

Figure 4). In

and this wou

ght all manne

s from Abe

the Co-ope

at Scotland’s Peoat Scotland’s PeoLamont-Brown an Dodds, Aberfeldy

36

speople had

during the e

tside. Nevert

nificant role

se, with the

to have a tre

oted, subsiste

to be a defin

o the 1901 C

ld McLaren,

igure 9).172

a similar outl

n1911 the gro

uld have ope

er of mercha

rfeldy: McG

erative van

ople. ople. nd P. Adamson, Vy: The History of a

already wane

early decade

theless, the i

in shaping n

second half

emendous im

ence living ba

ing character

Census, there

whose son A

This shop ap

et in Ardeon

ocer was em

rated alongs

andise to the

Grouther’s

c.1951 (rig

Victorian and Edwa Highland Commu

ed by this tim

s had create

ncreasing sp

ew patterns

of the centu

mpact on peo

ased on the t

ristic of early

e was a groce

Andrew was

ppears to hav

naig although

mploying a ho

ide similar se

lochside (se

butchery d

ght).174

ardian Perthshire frunity, pp.145.

me and the

ed a greater

peed and flex

of behaviou

ury witnessin

ople’s everyd

traditional cr

y twentieth-

er’s shop an

the shopkee

ve served th

h there was a

orse drawn ‘v

ervices from

ee Figure 10

delivery car

from Rare Photogra

xibility of

ur.

g an

day

rofting

century

d Post

eper and

e

a Post

vanman’

m both

0).173

rt (left)

aphs (St

 

37  

By mid-century, this mode of shopping, now facilitated by motorised vans, was well-established

and, as Joan McKenzie recalls, it meant “you didn’t have to go anywhere.”175 By this time, as observed

by the author of In the Hills of Breadalbane in the early fifties, the shop in Ardtalnaig was ‘subsisting

mainly on postal work’ and carried ‘hardly any goods except for a meagre range of “sweeties”,

and…a few tins and loaves from the Co-op van for the benefit of stray customers.’176 The Post

Office in Ardeonaig was also very small, “being just in the porch really of the house” at Croft Valley

by the 1960s.177 Not long after this both Post Offices were shut down during the initial round of

rural closures across the country. With regard to the vans, Margaret Taylor, who moved to

Ardeonaig in 1963 following her marriage to local farmer Kenneth, remembers “the Co-operative

van, they had a butcher’s van and the grocery van, it came once a week…McKercher and

MacNaughton’s came once a week, there was McGrouther’s the butcher’s came round once a

week.”178 As shown in Figure 11 below, Margaret would write her order in a small book ready for

when the vans came, and even if she was out they would deliver the goods requested. At the same

time, “a draper’s van from Auchterarder” would come round once a month and Margaret recollects

that “it wasn’t just drapery he sold, Jack sold everything I think”; as well as cladding the local children

in “school clothes” and “dance clothes”, Jack’s van supplied “the first television that would be

here.”179 Although car ownership rose steadily following the Second World War, it is interesting

that people along the lochside made good use of the vans right up until the shops began to withdraw

their delivery services from the mid-seventies onwards. Once the delivery services had ceased, with

Figure 11: Grocery book from 1971 belonging to Margaret Taylor.

                                                            175 Oral history testimony of Joan MacKenzie. 176 V. A. Firsoff, In the Hills of Breadalbane (London: Robert Hale, 1954), pp.57-8. 177 Oral history testimony of Joan MacKenzie. 178 Oral history testimony of Margaret Taylor. 179 Ibid.

 

38  

McKerchar and MacNaughton’s van from Aberfeldy being “the last one” to operate on South

Lochtayside, people had no choice but to travel to Killin, Aberfeldy or further afield for their

shopping.180 As mentioned above, for a number of years the Post Bus helped to facilitate this, and

even after it was withdrawn the ‘postie’ continued to provide an unofficial service to local residents.

According to Joan MacKenzie, “the postman was very good, I mean he would take anything from

Killin that you wanted or from anywhere that you wanted...and he would…get you in the back of the

van somehow or other if you desperately needed to go to Killin.”181 Although this would continue

for some time, the increasing regulation of services and emphasis on health and safety directives

towards the end of the century actively discouraged such informal arrangements and contributed to a

culture of inflexibility which has dominated local provision ever since.

Given the nature of these lochside settlements, local schooling was another important feature of

everyday life on Lochtayside, and it is interesting to note the many changes that occurred during the

course of the twentieth century. Although the broad focus of this study does not permit in depth

analysis of the education system throughout this period, it is useful to map the key developments

which impacted on people’s lives. Looking back to the beginning of the century, both Ardeonaig and

Ardtalnaig had a public school providing compulsory education for 5-14 year olds under the

management of the Kenmore School Board (see Figure 12). These were established following the

1872 Education (Scotland) Act, replacing the earlier schools which had been set up with the aid of

the Honourable Society for Propagating Christian Knowledge in the early eighteenth century.182 As

was typical of small rural schools at this time, each consisted of a single school room, outside toilets,

a small yard and an attached schoolhouse where the teacher resided. According to the School Log

Books, in November1900 there were 21 pupils on the roll in Ardeonaig, and a further 14 in

Ardtalnaig.183 As already noted, during the early decades the number of children enrolled often

varied a great deal during the year as families came and went in pursuit of agricultural employment,

and a drop in numbers rarely caused concern. By the 1930s, however, these regular fluctuations had

given way to population decline and by 1940 the school roll in Ardtalnaig, which had been

temporarily bolstered by evacuees at the start of the war, was down to an all-time low of three. The

decision was therefore taken to close the school and transfer the remaining pupils to Ardeonaig,

transporting them along the road in a “school car.”184 Although this would have been a blow to the

people of Ardtalnaig at a time when the population and other services (including the steamers) were

dwindling, in the long-term the merger of the schools was to forge a new connection between the

two settlements which was to prove extremely important in sustaining a sense of community as

older associations were eroded during the second half of the century; the first significant break came

in 1956 when the ‘Ardtalnaig section of the Ardeonaig Congregation was…united with

                                                            180 Oral history testimony of Donald Hancock. 181 Oral history testimony of Joan MacKenzie. 182 W. A. Gillies, In Famed Breadalbane, pp.329-335. 183 Ardeonaig School Log Book 1873-1927 (Stirling Council Archives, PC3/17/12), p.261 and Ardtalnaig School Log Book 1912-1940 (Perth and Kinross Archive, CC1/5/7/158), p.396. 184 Oral history testimony of Kenneth Taylor.

 

39  

Kenmore…without consultation of the Kirk Session’, and this was followed in 1975 by the

reorganisation of local government which placed the neighbouring hamlets into different council

areas.185 The school clearly provided a degree of continuity in the face of such dramatic changes and

this, as well as its broader role in community life, is explored in greater depth in the following

chapter. The eventual closure of Ardeonaig Primary School in 1986, when the roll had dropped to

three, and subsequent shift in education provision from that point on, undoubtedly marked the end

of an era and opened up new challenges for the people of south Lochtayside over the coming years

and decades.

Figure 12: Ardeonaig School, early twentieth century

(schoolroom hidden from view on right).186

Although this chapter provides just a glimpse of the patterns of everyday day life in Ardeonaig and

Ardtalnaig during the twentieth century, it gives a real sense of the complex interplay between

change and continuity which shaped people’s experiences throughout this period. Whether in

relation to employment, transport, shopping or education, incremental as well as more dramatic

changes have been balanced with an enduring sense of linkage with the past. Even crisis points, such

as the closure of the Post Offices and schools, appear to have lost their edge in the course of time as

life went on, not quite the same, but not wholly different from before. People adapt to change in

remarkable ways and, as will be seen in the next chapter, the construction of community and a sense

of belonging played a significant role in enabling the people of South Lochtayside to do so.

                                                            185 Minutes of the Kirk Session of Ardeonaig United Free Church 1915-1966 (Stirling Council Archives, CH3/1243/6). 186 K. Riddell, Killin in Old Photographs (Stirling Council Libraries, 1993), p.19.

 

40  

Chapter 4

Constructions of community

By taking a micro-historical approach, this study has revealed much about the economic, social and

technological changes and continuities which defined life on South Lochtayside during the course of

the twentieth century. In doing so, the idea of ‘community’ has been of paramount importance,

providing a valuable conceptual framework to guide and inform the research. Far from being a simple

concept, the meaning of community is highly-contested and there are a number of competing, though

arguably not mutually exclusive, definitions in use. Indeed, as Peter Burke explains, ‘the term

community is almost as indefinable – as well as indispensable - as the term culture.’187 Yet, whilst

acknowledging that there continues to be a complex theoretical debate around the idea, for the

purposes of this study it has been expedient to approach community from three distinct angles.

Therefore, as well as seeing it in simple terms as a geographically-defined population, the significance

of communities of interest - those things connecting people through common experience such as

farming or parenthood - has also been considered in order to gain a sense of the complexity of social

relationships within and between the two lochside settlements. Furthermore, overarching all this has

been a concern for what Anthony P. Cohen describes as the ‘symbolic construction of community',

the cultural meaning that people place upon it and its role in shaping their identity and sense of

belonging.188 Although such things are incredibly difficult to discern, particularly from a historical

perspective, there is much to be gleaned from the sources about how community has been

experienced and understood over time. Drawing on the detail of the previous chapters, this section

explores these different constructions of community and provides detailed analysis of the social

dynamics of lochside life.

Starting with the geographical basis of community, the settlements under study can be seen as two

distinct but connected communities. Given the dispersed nature of the settlements, with outlying

farms and other properties scattered along the lochside and up the glens, smaller clusters of

population within these could also be seen as discrete social groups. Certainly during the more

populous times of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, the different areas within each village

were much more clearly defined with the more distant places being considered hamlets in their own

right. This was certainly the case at Cambusurich to the west of Ardeonaig, where the ruins of

Cloichran still mark the landscape; this was a thriving settlement up until the so-called ‘Breadalbane

Clearances’ of the early nineteenth century and, as noted in John Christie’s Lairds and Lands of

Lochtayside published in 1892, would have been quite separate from Ardeonaig.189 Equally, the physical

remoteness of some areas, such as Claggan which lies some distance up the Ardtalnaig Glen, set

                                                            187 P. Burke, History and Social Theory, p.57. 188 A. P. Cohen, The Symbolic Construction of Community, p.8. 189 J. Christie, The Lairds and Lands of Loch Tayside (Aberfeldy: Duncan Cameron & Son, 1892), p.73.

 

41  

them apart. This would have been particularly pronounced during the winter months when snow and

ice made travel difficult and, as entries from the Ardtalnaig School Log Book show, this seasonal

isolation continued well into the twentieth century. For example, following a ‘severe snowstorm’ in

January 1913, ‘the glen road’ was ‘impassable’ for a number of weeks which ‘made it impossible for

the children to attend school’,190 and in February1925 the stormy weather meant that the ‘children

from Claggan were unable to attend on two days.’191 Despite certain physical divisions, however, the

focus of community activity was very much at village-level and the local schools, post offices and

church played a key role in sustaining this. Such institutions and shared services not only brought

people into physical contact with each other on a regular basis, but also provided a sense of shared

experience and common purpose. As noted in the previous chapter, at the beginning of the

twentieth century both Ardeonaig and Ardtalnaig had their own school which provided compulsory

education for the children of the district up until the age of fourteen. Every child, regardless of their

family’s position or wealth, would attend and the schools therefore had an important social and well

as educational function. With so few pupils on the roll in both places throughout the period, and just

one small classroom in each, the children would have got to know each other well. In addition to

receiving instruction appropriate to their age and level of attainment, the children engaged in many

whole-school activities and were often united in play or charitable pursuits. For instance, in

November 1914 the girls were ‘busily engaged working for Belgium Refugees’ and ‘sent off…a

parcel…of garments’ they had made.192 Similarly, on Armistice Day 1921 ‘the children were granted a

half holiday in order to sell poppies for Earl Haig’s Fund for disabled soldiers’ and when the poppies

that had been sent for did not arrive ‘the pupils…set about making poppies themselves…to take

round.’193

As well as engaging the wider community in such things, the schools were themselves a focus for

benevolent behaviour and often received gifts for the children or funds raised from a local event. To

give some examples from Ardeonaig, in 1923 ‘a parcel containing a book for each child and the

teacher’ was received from an anonymous donor,194 and in 1931 the teacher, Miss Stewart,

expressed delighted that, ‘eleven shillings and sixpence was given to me from a social evening in the

school room to help to get a supply of gym shoes for the school.’195 Attendance at the local school

also enabled newcomers, of which there were many in the first half of the century and the occasional

few during the following decades, to establish a connection with the local community that went

beyond the economic ties of employment. Indeed, as the agricultural basis of the economy and the

resulting inter-connectedness of rural society diminished over time, the schools provided a key

element of continuity by remaining a constant (though not unchanging) feature of everyday life. It is

perhaps for this reason that, throughout Britain as a whole, the small rural school has often been

                                                            190 Ardtalnaig School Log Book 1912-1940 (Perth and Kinross Archive, CC1/5/7/158), p.4. 191 Ibid, p.65. 192 Ardeonaig School Log Book 1873-1927 (Stirling Council Archives, PC3/17/12), p.374. 193 Ibid, p.449. 194 Ibid, p.459. 195 Ardeonaig School Log Book 1927-1969 (Stirling Council Archives, PC3/17/13), p.50.

 

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referred to as ‘the heart of the community’; though such emotive language is difficult to unpack and

has been the subject of much criticism in recent decades as the role of rural schools has been

fervently debated, at a most simple level it encapsulates the idea that local schooling provides

something of a constant rhythm, beating on regardless of other, sometimes dramatic, changes in the

community. To put it another way, and as observed in a Times editorial in 1978, ‘it is above all the

school which is felt to embody the idea of the village as something alive and enduring.’196 It also

explains why school closures, regardless of their perceived practical necessity, often ‘bring about at

least a general sense of loss.’197 This was certainly the case in Ardeonaig and Ardtalnaig, where the

significance of the schools increasingly stretched beyond their educational purpose and fed into the

wider functioning of community. In her oral history testimony, Eilidh Campbell, who was one of the

last pupils at Ardeonaig Primary School before it was closed in 1986, points to this with her

observation that, “the school, I think, was a central point and while it was open…everything was

really involved round it…with community get-togethers.”198 In fact, when reflecting on community

life, Kenneth Taylor (who happens to be Eilidh’s uncle) went as far as to say that “the biggest change

was when the school actually closed…it definitely kept the community together I would say, well it

was the one thing that…everybody kind of got involved in, most folk got involved in one way or

another, aye.”199 Other institutions, namely the kirk, and various voluntary groups also played an

important role in structuring social life on Lochtayside, and it is interesting to note the interplay

between these different bodies and the changing nature of community activity as the century

progressed.

At the start of the twentieth century, the church which had been erected in 1820 ‘on the east side

of Alltvine…midway between Ardtalnaig and Ardeonaig’ drew its congregation from both

settlements.200 Originally aligned to the Church of Scotland, it became a Free Church at the

disruption in 1843, and was then again joined with the national church in 1929.201 According to the

Deacon’s Court records, there were 35 members and 105 adherents in 1900, which according to the

1901 Census would have been approximately a quarter of the population, and membership declined

steadily during the following decades to reach an all-time low of 14 in 1926.202 Yet, far from marking

the end of the local church, from this point on the number of members actually began to rise despite

there being a fairly dramatic fall in the lochside population by mid-century. Membership in the 1930s

stabilised at around 24 and then rose steadily through the forties until in 1951 there were 52 on the

church roll.203 Given that there were around 71 inhabitants, including children, at the time, this would

have represented most of the adult population and suggests that the church was recognised as an

                                                            196 The Times, 11th September 1978, quoted in Forsythe, D. et al., The Rural Community and the Small School (Aberdeen: Aberdeen University Press, 1983), p.44. 197 Forsythe et al., The Rural Community and the Small School, p.44. 198 Oral history testimony of Eilidh Campbell. 199 Oral history testimony of Kenneth Taylor. 200 Gillies, In Famed Breadalbane, pp.298-9. 201 G. Walker, ‘Varieties of Scottish Protestant Identity’, in Devine and Finlay, eds, Scotland in the Twentieth Century, p.250. 202 Ardeonaig Free Church Deacon’s Court Records 1897-1966 (Stirling Council Archives, CH3/1243/7). 203 Minutes of the Kirk Session of Ardeonaig United Free Church 1915-1966 (Stirling Council Archives, CH3/1243/6).

 

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important aspect of community life during this period. In some respects, this may be considered

surprising given ‘the decline of church adherence and attendance, the withdrawal of religious issues

from the political arena, and the secularisation of habits and of popular thought’ in Scotland as a

whole throughout the twentieth century.204 Yet, without denying any religious significance, when

viewed in the context of community this reinvigoration of church membership on South Lochtayside

could be interpreted as the outworking of a desire to sustain social cohesion in the face of

demographic and social change. As has been detailed in the previous chapters, the first half of the

twentieth century heralded quite dramatic transformations in rural life and as, in the words of

Abrams and Brown, ‘older certainties…fell by the wayside with disconcerting speed’ the preservation

of those institutions which somehow served as markers of the community would have taken on a

new significance.205 Membership of course does not necessary imply regular attendance and from the

evidence available it is hard to discern exactly how the church functioned as a forum for social

activity (beyond the fact that people came together for services and there was a Women’s Guild).

Nevertheless, there can be little doubt that it held some meaning for the people of Ardeonaig and

Ardtalnaig, and represented more than just a religious meeting place. It also explains why, when the

church shut in 1966, the school as the only remaining institution became such a powerful emblem of

community life. In seeking to understand this, therefore, Cohen’s idea that community is not simply ‘a

structure of institutions capable of objective definition and description’, but rather a symbolic

construction by its members becomes extremely useful.206

Far from being an abstract notion, this cultural interpretation does not deny that the physical

aspects of community, such as its key institutions, geographic boundaries and established social

gatherings, are important. However, it encourages a much deeper analysis of social activity by placing

the emphasis on perception and experience as opposed to some ‘factual’ reality. In this way, it

becomes possible go beyond simple description to talk about what has given people a sense of

community and a feeling of belonging over the years. For instance, although being an official member

of the church, or having a child who attends the local school, would undoubtedly have provided a

basis for feeling, and being identified by others as being part of the community, such things on their

own cannot explain the complex dynamics of community life and the way in which people identified

with each other and their locality. As Cohen concludes, it is not ‘the doing of social behaviour’ that is

important but ‘the thinking about it’ that matters.207 In other words, actions and events should merely

be seen as a small part of a much larger picture that is almost holographic in nature, taking on a

different form depending on the angle from which it is viewed. There are of course many challenges

arising from the idea that ‘people construct community symbolically, making it a resource and

repository of meaning, and a referent of their identity’, and for the historian in particular, as opposed

to the ethnologist with whom the concept more naturally sits, it is something of a methodological

                                                            204 C. G. Brown, ‘Religion and Secularisation’, in Dickson and Treble, eds, People and Society in Scotland, Vol. III, 1914–1990, p.48. 205 Abrams and Brown, ‘Conceiving the Everyday in the Twentieth Century’, in Abrams and Brown, A History of Everyday Life, p.2. 206 Cohen, The Symbolic Construction of Community, p.19. 207 Ibid, p.98.

 

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minefield.208 Difficulties of interpretation aside, however, this theory does provide a valuable

conceptual tool in seeking to understand the nature and significance of social behaviour throughout

the twentieth century. Similarly, the notion of ‘social capital’, broadly defined as ‘social networks, the

reciprocities that arise from them, and the value of these for achieving mutual goals’, encourages a

deeper awareness of ‘the importance of social relationships and values such as trust in shaping

broader attitudes and behaviour.’209

In addition to the schools and church, there were many other ways in which the inhabitants of

Ardeonaig and Ardtalnaig interacted with one another and consideration of how the nature and

extent of these social networks changed over time can reveal a great deal about the workings of

community. As observed by Frankenburg in his study of Communities in Britain, ‘in face-to face

communities each individual is related to every other individual in his total network in several

different ways’, and at the start of the twentieth century this was certainly the case on South

Lochtayside. Beyond kinship ties, the wider population was bound together in a complex web of

economic and social dependency. The agricultural basis of the economy and semi-subsistence lifestyle

of the majority of residents inclined them towards collective action and provided an internal social

rhythm. In this way, community was very much an expression of commonality with the immediate

locality being the primary focus for most activities. For the most part, people lived, worked, shopped,

socialised and were educated in the two villages, and although there were opportunities to travel

further afield there was little compulsion to do so. Commonality of course does not imply

homogeneity, and it is crucial to recognise that there were also many things which distinguished

people from each other. Class, occupation, age and gender are perhaps the most obvious of these

and are often the easiest social characteristics to discern from the written records. For example, the

divisions of economic and social class at the turn of the century defined a social order which would

have informed the roles played by different members of the community and governed the nature of

the relationships between them. Looking at the 1901 inhabitants of Ardeonaig and Ardtalnaig, and

following Littlejohn’s classification of the population of Westrigg into upper middle, lower middle and

working class, 210 it is clear that, as in Westrigg, most people would have been considered working

class with agricultural labourers, gamekeepers, crofters, tailors, postmen and domestic servants

dominating the Census Records.211 The tenant farmers and teachers would then have been in a

slightly elevated position as members of the lower middle class and the minister would perhaps have

fallen into the category of upper middle class. Above them all, of course, would have been the

Breadalbanes who continued to be the primary landowner across this part of Scotland until the

interwar period put an end to their dominance. Yet, as has been noted, this upper class element of

society was somewhat removed from the everyday reality of lochside life, with the estate factor living

                                                            208 Ibid, p.118. 209 S. Baron. J. Field and T. Schuller, ‘Social Capital: A Review and Critique’ in Baron et.al., Social Capital: Critical Perspectives (Oxford University Press, 2000), p.1. 210 Littlejohn, Westrigg: The Sociology of a Cheviot Parish, p.79. 211 1901 Census, 361/00 001 and 360/00 004 accessed online at Scotland’s People.

 

45  

some miles away, and was therefore not a physical presence in the community. It is also important to

recognise that distinctions would also have been made between the different members of the same

class, with age, gender and occupation having a major bearing on how people were viewed and

treated. Female domestic servants in particular, would have had little status or freedom to conduct

their own affairs compared, for instance, to the local tailor who as an autonomous craftsman would

likely have been afforded a certain amount of respect. These ‘subtle nuances of minor difference’

have been observed in various studies, including Robertson, Smyth and MacIntosh’s research into

Neighbourhood Identity in Stirling, and reveal the immense complexity of social relations in both rural

and urban settings throughout this period.212

Whilst social and economic classification does provide a sound basis for analysis, however, it can

only go some way to explaining the social dynamic between different members and segments of the

community; many other factors which are far more difficult to quantify would also have been at play.

The role of individual personality for instance, or the kudos associated with length of residency and

services to the community would undoubtedly have influenced how people related to one another. In

recognising this, Littlejohn made an important distinction between ‘esteem’, being ‘the social honour

an individual enjoys by virtue of his performance in one or several roles’, and ‘prestige’ which in

contrast is ‘the relative social honour accorded a position in a social system irrespective of the

qualities of the individual’, and sought to factor this into his discussion of class relations.213 Similarly,

Cohen’s ethnographic research found that although ‘a community may lack formal structures of

leadership…it will have means of attributing status and prestige, perhaps based on prowess in

subsistence or other valued activities, or on age, or on evident sanctity, or whatever.’214 Of course,

sociologists and social anthropologists have a distinct advantage in being able to observe these

elements of social behaviour in the present-day. Looking from a historical perspective is much more

challenging, and there is no denying that the source material available for the early part of the

twentieth century provides few clues as to how class actually translated into social behaviour in this

particular setting. Nevertheless, the source material available and findings from other studies provide

valuable clues as to how it played out.

Exploring the nature and activities of these local groups in more detail suggests a growing

formalisation of social relationships as the century progressed. As already mentioned, the economic

and social ties which existed between most of the local inhabitants at the beginning of the twentieth

century ensured regular social interaction and created broad communities of interest across the

settlements. Farming in particular, and the cyclical nature of the agricultural calendar, was the focus

of much social activity due to its predominance and the seasonal necessity of communal labour. Even

as late as the early fifties, Mervyn Browne remembers how “sheep handling was almost like a

community get together because in those days there’d maybe be twelve to fourteen people clipping

                                                            212 Robertson, Smyth and McIntosh, Neighbourhood Identity, p.70. 213 Littlejohn, Westrigg: The Sociology of a Cheviot Parish, p.78. 214 Cohen, The Symbolic Construction of Community, p.33.

 

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and all the other folk…and the housewife and her daughter maybe coming up with food.’215 By mid-

century, however, such activities were severely on the wane with far fewer people employed on the

farms and an increasing reliance on outside contractors for all manner of tasks. Without over-

emphasising the social significance of these earlier gatherings, which involved a fair number of

itinerant workers and only a proportion of the settled population, they appear to be representative

of the way in which social interaction and communication were embedded in everyday life. Indeed, as

Mervyn also points out, in the first half of the century there was “very little wireless…no television,

no telephone, so everything was by word of mouth” and face-to-face conversation was therefore the

primary “means of contact.”216 Even in the early fifties, the telecommunications revolution had yet to

make its mark on Lochtayside, and this can clearly be seen in a School Log Book entry from

November 1951 which notes that ‘as the village telephone was out of order the teacher was unable

to get in touch with the Education Offices’ to notify them of disruption caused by ‘wide-spread

flooding’ in the area.217 It is not surprising then that changes in the rural economy (which included a

flattening of the social structure as the working class element diminished and the population became

increasingly middle class) and technological change had a considerable impact on this aspect of

community life, and it is within this context that the proliferation of more formal groups and

activities should be seen.

According to the Ardeonaig Village Hall Cash Book, there were numerous local groups in

operation following the Second World War. Along with the Women’s Guild, there was a Men’s

Social Club, a Dramatic Society, an Entertainment Committee, a Women’s Social Club and a Film

Guild.218 Carpet bowls seems to have been the main focus of the social clubs, and Kenneth Taylor

recalls that when he was young “it was a three night a week affair…the ladies had a – was it a

Monday night? – the men’s club was a Wednesday night, and then on a Saturday night there was, it

was a communal one.”219 At the same time, most of the groups ran regular fundraising events and

whist drives appear to have been a particularly favoured method of socialising and raising money at

the same time. Far from being seen as a social obligation, in the forties and fifties they appear to have

been a highlight of the social calendar and, according to Kenneth, were the topic of much

conversation: “I mean folk would just, the next morning that would be the big discussion…how many

tricks, who got what and… how many they should have got.”220 In many ways, this mirrors the

situation in Westrigg at around the same time and fits with Littlejohn’s observation that ‘as a

population becomes more industrial in character, voluntary associations among it increase.’221 So,

whilst the activities themselves may not have been entirely new, the organisation of them certainly

became more formal and structured towards the middle of the century and beyond. It is also

                                                            215 Oral history testimony of Mervyn Browne. 216 Ibid. 217 Ardeonaig School Log Book 1927-1969 (Stirling Council Archives, PC3/17/13), p.221. 218 Cash book of Ardeonaig Hall Fund, 1948-1984 (held by Kenneth Taylor). 219 Oral history testimony of Kenneth Taylor. 220 Ibid. 221 Littlejohn, Westrigg: The Sociology of a Cheviot Parish, p.75.

 

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extremely significant that it was during this period that a new community venue, in the form of a

village hall housed in a Nissen hut, was established. As already noted, it is interesting that the trigger

for this came not from within the existing population, who by all accounts were happy in their use

continued use of the school buildings for social activities, but from the new laird of Ardeonaig,

Madame Stuart Stevenson, who endowed the community with a plot of land in 1949 for ‘the erection

and maintenance of a public hall.’222 Whilst the motivations behind this would have been complex, it

is likely to have been driven by a desire to establish her position within the local community. As has

been seen, previous landlords had used a variety of benevolent acts to express their status, and the

conveyance of land ‘for the benefit of the residents’ was a suitably grand gesture.223 Furthermore, the

fact that its intention was to provide a structure to support community life appears highly significance

when seen in the context of the social, economic and demographic changes which marked the

preceding decades. Indeed, such efforts to define and encourage community activity towards the

middle of the twentieth century appear to have been fairly commonplace throughout Britain,

suggesting something of a shift in the notion of community at this time. This can clearly be seen in

Marilyn Strathern’s anthropological study of Elmdon in Essex, which describes how ‘in 1958 a well-

meaning newcomer had generously offered “the village” a Nissen hut which could be used as a hall’

but that ‘neither the Parish Council nor Elmdoners themselves took up his offer with any

enthusiasm.’224 Whilst the outcome was different from Ardeonaig where the gift was accepted and a

hall built, it is noteworthy that in both places the idea and motivation for a new village facility came

from a newcomer to the area, placing a strong emphasis on the wider community rather than any

group within it. For Strathern, this marks an important distinction between locals and incomers, and

her observation that ‘village people…organise themselves…without necessarily involving the whole

village…nor under the rubric of this entity as a community…whereas newcomers require that

organisation duplicate the structure of the entire population’ is an extremely interesting one.225

Returning to the idea that community is symbolically constructed by its members rather than

simply being a ‘structure of institutions’, the differing perceptions and expectations of incomers and

locals is of crucial importance in seeking to understand the internal dynamics of community life.226

On South Lochtayside, as elsewhere, the relationship between the two has had a major bearing on

the nature and extent of social relations throughout the twentieth century. In the early decades

when the majority of incomers were economically and socially linked to the area through

employment, and were thus automatically integrated into certain elements of community life, the

distinction between the two was of little consequence. As has been seen, at this time the population

was fairly fluid with agricultural workers moving between different appointments on a seasonal basis,

and this was an accepted facet of rural life. As well as being incorporated into the social life of the

                                                            222 Extract of the Deed of Trust by Mrs Helen Constance Stirling Stuart or Stuart Stephenson in favour of Trustees for the Public Hall, Ardeonaig (Public Records of Scotland General Register of Sasines, County of Perth, Book 1570, Folio 110-118, 27th June 1949). 223 Ibid. 224 Strathern, Kinship at the Core: An Anthropology of Elmdon, p.37. 225 Ibid, p.58. 226 Cohen, The Symbolic Construction of Community, p.19.

 

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farm, the local focus of most activities, including schooling, encouraged regular social interaction

between incomers and locals, drawing them together in various communities of interest. That’s not

to say that incomers weren’t seen, or indeed treated, differently from the longer term residents, but

simply that residency status was meshed together with other considerations such as class,

occupation, gender and prestige to determine someone’s position in society. By mid-century,

however, newcomers to Ardeonaig and Ardtalnaig were becoming a different proposition altogether,

and as private ownership of land and property increased from the 1950s onwards, the arrival of new

people often brought with it a degree of conflict. Friction arising from the establishment of an

outdoor centre at Brae Lodge has already been mentioned, and this was not an isolated incident. The

steady rise in second and holiday homes during this period appears to have been particularly

unsettling for local residents, and it is telling that the Deed of Trust for the Ardeonaig Village Hall

was ‘varied as a result of an Extra-Ordinary General Meeting held in the Public Hall, Ardeonaig on

11th October 1976’ so that the term ‘rate-payer’ was replaced with ‘resident’ wherever it

appeared.227 As detailed in the Minute Book of the Village Hall Committee, this action arose from a

feeling that ‘if things were carried on in the present trend control could lie with people having no

real interest in the area.’228 When taken at face value, this looks like a simple case of locals marking

their territory and trying to stop outsiders interfering in local affairs. Yet, on closer inspection it

seems to reflect a much deeper concern that the rise in absentee owners somehow threatened the

very survival of the community itself. There are certainly undertones of this in Eilidh Campbell’s

observation that “the cottages that probably were farming cottages are now sort of sold as second

homes, or rented out for holiday houses, which is fine, but it’s not great for a small community really

because they’re not having the people living there full time and getting involved in developing

relationships.”229

By the second half of the century, therefore, permanent residency had become much more

important in determining whether someone was considered a member of the community. In fact,

ownership of property appears to have had very little bearing on whether you were welcomed into

the fold, as can be seen by the fact that the McLaughlin’s, who moved to Claggan in 1969 when Joe

became the managing shepherd, were soon integrated into the local community. In the words of his

wife Margaret, they were accepted “because Joe was working here, and partly because Joe is a canny,

totally unboastful person.”230 In this respect, the attitude towards incomers who had an active

connection with local life through work can be seen to have changed very little over the decades.

That is not to say that all resident incomers were welcomed in the same way, as is shown by Phil

Simpson’s admission that “it took us a long time to integrate in the wider community…because we

were new people doing something new.”231 Indeed, this is a good reminder of the fact that ‘all

                                                            227 Minute of Variation to Deed of Trust by Mrs Helen Constance Stirling Stuart or Stuart Stevenson in Favour of the Trustees for the Public Hall, Ardeoanig, Registers of Scotland, 20th September 1977 (held by Kenneth Taylor). 228 Ardeonaig Village Hall Minute Book 1964-2010 (held by Kenneth Taylor). 229 Oral history testimony of Eilidh Campbell. 230 Oral history testimony of Margaret McLaughlin. 231 Oral history testimony of Philip Simpson.

 

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networks…are mechanisms for both inclusion and exclusion.’232 However, living and working locally

undoubtedly gave newcomers a foot in the door, and if they were seen to be committing to and

contributing something to the community some form of acceptance eventually followed. The journey

to becoming local was of course a much longer one, and throughout the century longevity has been

the main determinant of this. As Margaret Taylor recalls, her father-in-law “used to quote an old

neighbour here who said if you lived, I think it was twenty or thirty years on Lochtayside they might

come to your funeral.”233 It is also interesting to note Eilidh Campbell’s comment that ”my

grandfather came here in 1938 and…latterly…he always, even my father said…they…weren’t really

local.”234 It seems that on Lochtayside, true locals were those considered to be indigenous and

whose attachment to the area went back generations, such as “the McDiarmids on the other side”

who, in the words of Mervyn Brown, “were original, for a long, long time anyway.”235 Nevertheless,

although length of residency clearly brought with it a certain amount of prestige, respect was also

given to those people who were seen to make a significant contribution to local life. Over the course

of the century this took many forms, but as the regular interactions of everyday life were eroded

during the latter decades, with local services declining and individual concerns coming to the fore as

family life became more ‘privatised’, involvement in the more formal structures of community life,

such as local groups and organised events, became increasingly important.236 One particular incomer,

the Ardeonaig schoolmistress Mrs MacInnes, certainly made a real impression during her relatively

short stay in the community between 1968 and 1982, and is fondly remembered to this day. As well

as being recognised as a good teacher, she took a lead role in organising events and supporting local

groups, and was instrumental in setting up a local branch of Scottish Rural Women’s Institute (SWRI)

in 1972; in the words of Margaret Taylor, she “was really very good at getting us all, the whole

community together to things, and she started the Rural.”237

From this point on, and particularly following the closure of the school in Ardeonaig, incomers

played an increasingly important role in maintaining community activities. Due the small population

and the fact that, as lamented by Reverend Colquhoun when the Village Hall was closed in 1970, ‘so

little interest had been shown by younger members of the community’, enthusiastic newcomers who

were eager to form some attachment to the area brought a new lease of life to community-wide

activities.238 Keeping such community events going was no easy task and as it tended to fall to the

same small group of people to sit on the associated committees and organise things, it is not

surprising that people eventually tired of the responsibility. Interestingly, both men and women were

active in this regard, although it continued to be the women who kept the more informal

relationships within the community going; as was observed in the Stirling study, ’women, in pursuing

                                                            232 W. Maloney, G. Smith and G. Stoker, ‘Social Capital and Associational Life’ in Baron et.al., Social Capital: Critical Perspectives, p.218. 233 Oral history testimony of Margaret Taylor. 234 Oral history testimony of Eilidh Campbell. 235 Oral history testimony of Mervyn Browne. 236 A. Dickson & J.H. Treble, ‘Introduction’, in Dickson & Treble, eds, People and Society in Scotland, Vol. III, 1914–1990, pp.7. 237 Oral history testimony of Margaret Taylor. 238 Ardeonaig Village Hall Minute Book 1964-2010.

 

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family and child‐rearing roles, contribute greatly to the communications traffic’ and whilst this role

seems to have diminished, particularly in urban areas, as women became more economically active

outside of the home towards the end of the century, the rurality of South Lochtayside and lack of

local employment opportunities meant that this changed very little.239 As the resident population

dwindled, however, the burden of sustaining formal activities definitely increased, and this would

certainly explain why at the Village Hall Annual General Meeting in 1964 ‘none of the committee

members were willing to accept the post of Secretary Treasurer’ leaving the Chairman to ‘make

enquiries among members of the community not present at the meeting to try and fill the post.’240 It

also sheds some light on why whist drives, which were fairly simple to organise, had come to

dominate the social calendar by the late sixties and were to remain the mainstay of community

fundraising for many years. The school summer outing, Christmas party and other social events

involving the local children were also a key focus of community effort at this time, and it is significant

that when the school eventually closed in 1986 these were the things that people were most

concerned to keep going. Indeed, with the church, village hall and school now gone, there appears to

have been a fresh impetus for organised activities, as if they were now the only marker of the wider

community, and a new committee was formed (later to become the Ardeonaig and Ardtalnaig

Community Association which is still in existence) to facilitate these. Supported by the efforts of

locals and incomers, both those who settled in the area long-term and others who stayed for just a

short time, this organisation can be seen to have played a key role in helping to sustain a sense of

community and continuity with the past through its annual programme of events. The fact that these

were ‘well attended and enjoyed by the community’ over the years shows that they held some

meaning for the local inhabitants and, returning to Cohen’s terminology, were therefore important

symbols of community, giving people a sense of shared experience and common purpose in the

absence of the more traditional pillars of community life.241 Indeed, it seems to have been particularly

important in maintaining a relationship between the two settlements in the face of administrative as

well as social and economic change.

Although when reflecting on the1975 reorganisation of local government, which split Ardeonaig

and Ardtalnaig into different council areas, most of the oral history respondents echoed Kenneth

Taylor’s feeling that it “didnae bother me”, the long-term social effects should not be

underestimated.242 By all accounts, whilst the school in Ardeonaig was still open and the councils

adopted a flexible approach to service delivery, allowing children from one area to be educated in

the other, the new boundary had very little impact on everyday life. However, with the closure of

the school, which resulted in the primary age children being sent to different schools, this slowly

began to change and by the end of the century the divide between the two was well-established.

                                                            239 Robertson, Smyth and McIntosh. Neighbourhood Identity, p.viii. 240 Ibid. 241 ‘Minutes of the meeting held on 12th June 1995’, Ardeonaig and Ardtalnaig Community Assocation, Annual General Meeting Minute Book, 1987-2011 (held by the current secretary). 242 Oral history testimony of Kenneth Taylor.

 

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When seen in this context, the establishment of a joint community association takes on a new

significance and, as Phil Simpson explained, though outsiders may see it as “a huge anomaly…it makes

sense when you live here.”243 Given the ‘crisis of community’ on South Lochtayside during the

second half of the twentieth century, it is not surprising that such formal expressions of community

became increasingly important.244 As well as being an ‘elaboration of culture’, they formed a relational

boundary which was at odds with the imposed administrative one and communicated a much-needed

sense of continuity with the past.245 At the same time, the notion of being on the periphery and of

being forgotten or ignored became much more prominent and developed into an important referent

of people’s identity. To give an example, when a new development plan was drawn up for Ardeonaig

in the nineties there was an over-riding sense locally that “the Council did what they like, and didn’t

listen to anybody.”246 In this way, people were united in their frustration and bound together by a

sense of shared adversity and common endurance. Indeed, given the particular rurality of the area

and limited infrastructural development in relation to other areas, the hamlets could be described as

being more remote towards the end of the century rather than less, and this would have fed into

this.

Whilst much more could be said about the dynamics of community in this lochside setting, those

aspects considered here reveal much about the complexity of social life throughout the twentieth

century. Marked by a decline in population, an erosion of the agricultural basis of the economy and

technological transformations that encouraged individual action over collective effort, this period

undoubtedly witnessed something of a ‘crisis in community’. As internal social and economic linkages

diminished over time, a much greater emphasis was placed on formal groups and organised activities

as an expression of community, which provided a unifying focus and gave a sense of continuity with

the past. More contrived than the earlier informal gatherings and networks, and perhaps more

inclusive of the whole population thanks to the efforts of incomers whose notion of community went

beyond the ties of kin and friendship, these became an important marker of community life and a

powerful symbol of social identity and belonging as the traditional structures of rural life fell away.

                                                            243 Oral history testimony of Philip Simpson. 244 G. Delanty, Community (London: Routledge, 2003), p.5. 245 A. P. Cohen, ‘Belonging: the Experience of Culture’ in A. P. Cohen, ed., Belonging: Identity and Social Organisation, p.6. 246 Oral history testimony of Philip Simpson.

 

52  

Conclusion

Despite its narrow geographical focus, the twentieth-century history of Ardeonaig and Ardtalnaig on

South Lochtayside is a tale worth telling. The story may not be one of high drama and intrigue, but its

twists and turns are fascinating nonetheless and reveal much about the dynamics of lochside life

during a period of unprecedented change. By taking a micro-historical approach, looking beyond the

broad themes of Scottish modern history to discern something of everyday experience at a local

level, it has been possible to build up a detailed picture of change and continuity throughout the

century. Furthermore, the interdisciplinary nature of the study and particular focus on how the

concept of ‘community’ was constructed and experienced over time, has broadened the scope for

discussion and ensured a wider sociological significance. Whilst the conclusions drawn here are

somewhat tentative given the limited scope of this project and the need for further comparative

research, they are a valuable first step towards understanding the processes and actions that defined

lochside life during the twentieth century. In doing so, they also contribute to broader discussions

around the nature of history and conceptualisation of the historical process.

As elsewhere in Scotland, the twentieth century was a period of persistent and enduring change for

the people of Lochtayside. Defined in this lochside setting by population decline and a transformation

of the rural economy, everyday life witnessed many changes; whilst some of these were fairly rapid,

such as the discontinuation of the Loch Tay steamer service and the closure of the church, others

were much more gradual and endemic. As the nature of agricultural employment shifted during the

first half of the century, the economic and social interdependency which had characterised life in

Ardeonaig and Ardtalnaig for generations slowly slipped away. At the same time, the gradual transfer

of land ownership, first from the Breadalbanes to local lairds, and then onto sitting tenants and

outside investors, contributed to a growing individualization away from more collective concerns and

a greater sense of private interest over community action. Whereas social interaction had been an

intrinsic part of life in the early decades, giving people a sense of belonging through commonality and

shared experience, during the second half of the century a much more deliberate effort was needed

to bring people together and formal groups proliferated. As the local services and instituions which

had brought people into physical contact disappeared one by one from the lochside, this emphasis on

organised events continued to grow and incomers came to play an important role in sustaining such

community-wide activities.Other factors, including a rise in the number of holiday and weekend

homes and the reorganisation of local government which separated the neighbouring hamlets into

different council areas, also put a strain on social relations and added to a sense of crisis as the

twenty-first century approached. This period was also defined by an increasing rationalisation of

services and growing inflexibility of provision which in effect made small rural communities more

isolated and less connected than they had previously been despite the apparent wonders of modern

transportation and communication technology. Indeed, given the specific rurality of South

 

53  

Lochtayside, hemmed in by the physical landscape and defined by its precarious road and relatively

limited infrastructure, peripheralisation appears to have been particularly pronounced in this location

leading to a greater feeling of remoteness and a sense of shared adversity amongst its residents.

Reflecting on the nature of these changes more broadly and looking at the wider significance of this

study, perhaps the most intriguing observation is that throughout the twentieth century the people

of South Lochtayside demonstrated an amazing degree of resilience and adaptability to change.

Whilst the economic and social dimensions of lochside life were transformed in just a few short

decades, the fact that changes were continually interwoven with elements of continuity, giving the

impression of natural progression rather than a dramatic break from the past, helped to ensure a

much-needed sense of order and stability. In this way, even events that caused quite a stir at the time

or those that were remembered as being significant, eventually became an accepted part of everday

life. For instance, although the closure of Ardeonaig Primary school undoubtedly marked a big change

after a long period of local schooling on South Lochtayside and is still talked about in terms of a great

loss to the community, in truth people adapted quite quickly to the new situation and life continued

in much the same way as before. This is not to deny the long-term significance of such things or to

downplay their importance in any way. However, what it does show is the tremendous complexity of

human experience and the need to understand the subtle dynamics of change as well as observing

overarching trends. Indeed, what can seem quite dramatic developments to the outside observer,

such as the advent of the motor car or disintegration of the Breadalbane Estate, actually appear far

less so when looked at through a micro-historical lens. This fits with the findings from other studies

of everyday life in Scotland, which also note how ‘change on the ground was invariably slow,

piecemeal and indigenous rather than spectacular.’247 At the same time, much can be gleaned about

the workings of society more generally by taking a long-term view of how social relations and the

conceptualisation of community changed over time in this particular setting. Tying in with the work

of other social historians, as well as sociologists and ethnographers, this research suggests that

despite a ‘move towards individualization from more collective concerns’ during the second half of

the twentieth century, people continued to seek a sense of belonging and common purpose by

holding onto the notion of community as a real and living thing. Whilst in practical terms this may

have amounted to little more than a local programme of events and fundraising activities, more

symbolic constructions of community were to prove an enduring feature of everyday life,

underpinning social relations and sustaining a sense of continuity in the face of constant change.

All in all, this study has shown the value of micro-historical research and the benefits of an

interdisciplinary approach. Drawing on a mosaic of sources and using social theory as a conceptual

framework, it is a welcome addition to modern Scottish historiography and provides a sound basis

for future comparative research.

                                                            247 Whatley and Foyster, ‘Foreword’, in L. Abrams and C. G. Brown, eds, A History of Everyday Life, p.xi.

 

54  

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Smout, Thomas C., ‘Patterns of Culture’, in A. Dickson and J. H. Treble, eds, People and Society in

Scotland, Volume III, 1914–1990 (Edinburgh: John Donald,1992)

Sprott, Gavin, ‘Lowland Country Life’, in T. M. Devine and R. J. Finlay, eds, Scotland in the Twentieth

Century (Edinburgh: Edinburgh University Press, 1996)

Strathern, Marilyn, ‘The village as idea: constructs of villageness in Elmdon Essex, in A. P. Cohen, ed.,

Belonging, Identity and Social Organisation in British Rural Cultures (Manchester: Manchester University

Press, 1982)

Thompson, Paul, ‘The Voice of the Past: Oral History’, in R. Perks & A. Thomson, eds, The Oral

History Reader (London: Routledge, 1998)

Vella, Stephen, ‘Newpapers’, in M. Dobson and B. Ziemann, eds, Reading Primary Sources. The

Interpretation of Texts from Nineteenth- and Twentieth-Century History (Abingdon: Routledge, 2009)

Walker, Graham, ‘Varieties of Scottish Protestant Identity’, in T. M. Devine and R. J. Finlay, eds,

Scotland in the Twentieth Century (Edinburgh: Edinburgh University Press, 1996)

Whatley, Christopher A. and Elizabeth Foyster, ‘Foreword’ in L. Abrams and C. G. Brown, eds, A

History of Everyday Life in Twentieth Century Scotland (Edinburgh: Edinburgh University Press, 2010)

 

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Appendices

 

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Appendix 1: Oral History Society ethical guidelines

Although several UK laws apply to oral history, those who give information to interviewers do not usually have the time or resources to take legal action if their words are used illegally. But they can easily complain to their MPs, local authorities or the press, and this can seriously affect the reputation for trustworthiness which all oral history practitioners and custodians depend on.

The Society believes that, while oral history work must comply with the law, legal requirements alone do not provide an adequate framework for good practice. No UK law was designed specifically to regulate oral history work; in fact no law even mentions it.

For these reasons the following ethical guidelines have been drawn up to cover responsibilities and obligations beyond legal requirements. Custodians and places of deposit (such as archives and libraries) which the Society is prepared to recommend have agreed to abide by these guidelines.

1. Interviewers have the following responsibilities before an interview takes place:

1.1 To consider the purpose of the interview and the possible range of future uses to which it might be put.

1.2 To carry out research and acquire sufficient technical knowledge to conduct an interview of the best possible standard.

1.3 To inform the interviewee of the purpose for which the interview is to be carried out, with background information where appropriate, and ensure he or she has understood this.

1.4 To determine the preferences of the interviewee as to the location and conduct of the interview (for example the presence of other persons; subject matter or personal references to be avoided).

2. The interviewer has the following responsibilities during the conduct of an interview:

2.1 To ensure that the interviewee's preferences as to the location and conduct of the interview are abided by.

2.2 To treat interviewees with respect and courtesy.

2.3 To observe confidentiality until a clearance form or other access agreement has been finalised.

3. The interviewer has the following responsibilities after an interview has taken place:

3.1 To inform the interviewee of the arrangements to be made for the custody and preservation of the interview and accompanying material, both immediately and in the future, and to indicate any use to which the interview is likely to be put (for example research, education use, transcription, publication, broadcasting). To record in writing (and later carry out or convey to others) any restrictions which the interviewee may require.

3.2 To inform the interviewee of his or her rights under copyright law.

3.3 To ensure that the interviewee is informed (preferably in writing) when arrangements are made under 3.1-3.2 above are carried out. If these responsibilities are transferred to others (for example an archive or other place of deposit), this should be with the knowledge or consent of the interviewee and should be recorded in writing.

 

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3.4 To inform the interviewee of any new circumstances or changes to provisions made under 3.1-3.2 above.

3.5 To ensure that the interview is documented, indexed, catalogued and made available as agreed with the interviewee, and that a copy of the recording or transcript is given to the interviewee if an undertaking to do so has been given.

3.6 To ensure that all possible measures are taken to preserve interview recordings and related material.

4. Sponsoring institutions or places of deposit such as archives, libraries, museums or university departments have the following responsibilities:

4.1 To select interviewers of sufficient competence and skill, and to give sufficient guidance or training to ensure that these guidelines are carried out.

4.2 To ensure that recordings and documentation are carried out to the best possible, and at least to a sufficient standard.

4.3 To ensure that information on copyright ownership and other restrictions and conditions is recorded in writing and preserved. To document fully in writing all transfers of interview recordings and related material from individuals or others and ensure that 3.3 is fully carried out.

4.4 To ensure that responsibilities under 3.4-3.6 are understood and carried out.

4.5 To avoid the acquisition of interviews which are not accompanied by documentation including provenance, availability for use, and copyright status, except where there is a realistic prospect that 4.6 can be carried out successfully.

4.6 If interviews as described in 4.5 are acquired, to ensure that all possible steps are taken to contact interviewees or their heirs in order to obtain written statements concerning copyright and access.

4.7 To restrict access to interviews (even where this has not been required by the interviewee) in appropriate cases.

4.8 To ensure that names and personal details of interviewees are not passed on to third parties (for example broadcasters) without the consent of interviewees. Institutions should not become involved in any business arrangements which may result from such contacts.

4.9 To decide whether to charge for services and to fix a standard scale of charges which will apply to all users.

Copyright © 2008 OHS.

Accessed at http://www.ohs.org.uk/ethics

 

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Appendix 2: Oral history paperwork

2.1 Informed consent form

 

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Appendix 2: Oral history paperwork

2.2 Recording agreement form

 

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Appendix 3: Oral history transcripts

3.1 Mervyn Browne

Name of interviewee: Mervyn Knox Browne (MB)

Gender: Male

Date of birth: 29th May 1927

Place of birth: Cloghan, Glenfinn, County Donegal, Northern Ireland

Date of interview: Thursday 23rd June, 2011

Name of interviewer: Helen Louise Young (HY)

Audio length: 1 hour 33 minute 52 seconds. Five minute time markers are given in [ ].

HY: Right, so if you just confirm you name, date of birth and place of birth for me that would be great.

MB: My full name is Mervyn Knox Browne, Browne spelt with an e. Date of birth 29th May 1927, quite a while ago, I was quite young then [laughs]. And place of birth, a place called Cloghan in Glenfin in County Donegal.

HY: Okay.

MB: Is that what you need?

HY: That’s brilliant, thank you very much. So, first off, how did you come to the area?

MB: I left the army in ’49 and got a job in Balquhidder, which is about 20 odd miles from here, you probably know it. And stayed there a couple of years with a character called Johnnie Ferguson of Murugan and then came here as, I supposed you’d call it, managing shepherd. Sounds a bit grand but it was a retired Major who had the place and I was given the job of [slight pause] a shepherd anyway, of looking after the place.

HY: So this was Ardtalnaig you came to?

MB: Yes, that was in November 1950, which is as you know 61 years ago. [Cough] I stayed there about three years and then went down to the head of Glen Lyon, right at the ultima thule, right at the very head of Glen Lyon and then heard that the Major Darling’s wife was very ill and he was either selling or leasing the place. So I approached him and he wouldn’t lease it but he would sell the farm less this house and a field for his son to run his pony in. And I managed to scrabble up some money and went cap in hand to the banker in Killin who was very accommodating and came in here in 1954 and have been here ever since.

HY: Wow, that’s amazing.

MB: And I wouldn’t swap it for anything.

 

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HY: So do you remember your first impression of the kind of community here when you came? Because you were obviously an incomer.

MB: Oh, very much so. And for a long time, you take a long time to become accepted. About 16 years I think.

HY: 16? I heard 30 from someone else [laughs].

MB: 16. Anyhow, prior to actually coming here, a friend and I came past here on a motorbike and my first impression of the whole of this hamlet and the glen was like something out of, um [slight pause] oh, what? [slight pause] maybe Grimm’s Fairy Tales. Just asleep.

HY: Oh right.

MB: Rather nice, but very much asleep. And then I came here as I say on the 30th of [corrects self] 29th of May 1950 and the next day I was introduced to one or two of the people round here. My next door neighbour’s shepherd was man Murdo McLeod from Island of Raasay. And then in the village there was a crofter Sandy McLaren and beside him there was a family Duncan Fisher or Dochy Fisher who was the county roadman and his stepson Alec Morrison and another stepson Hamish Shorthouse who is actually still in Aberfeldy. He’s six months younger than me but he’s not totally fit. Anyhow, what else? There was an old keeper Duncan McNab who was later to become a very good friend of mine and that was about it. Up the glen at Claggan there was the tenant farmer Neil Forbes and his wife and he had two daughters and a son. One of his daughters was away and the other one was still there and the son was still there. And two shepherds, a married shepherd, Will Jamieson, and a single man, [slight pause] his name I’ll come to in a minute, [slight pause], I’ll pass on that, it’ll come back to me. And that was the total. Jordie, Jordie, Jordie, Jordie. Doesn’t have to be his surname, but he was Jordie anyway. So that was the human element. On this farm there was small stock of 200 ewes, Blackface, and only five cows at that time so you can imagine quite a gentlemanly existence. And then of course the big unit next door was Claggan which still carries roundabout the 2000 ewes and [slight hesitation] a bit of arable, oats, turnips, a wee bit of tatties for home use and hay of course and that was the sum total of it. So, as I say, it was quite a, quite an [5:00] easy life but it wasn’t really because everything was done by horses, so you were on your feet all the time. But that was the beginning anyway, that’s a sort o’ brief history.

HY: So did you get a [changes tack] ‘cause was it the fifties that the little Grey Fergie kind of tractor came in or…

MB: [Interrupting] Uh, well, no. Next door, Murdo MacLeod’s employers got him a Grey Fergie, as did Sandy McLaren the crofter. I still had the horses, this was after I took over myself, I’d got another horse by that time and I loved the working horses but then I was seeing my neighbours go into a field and ploughing it in half a day whereas it took me three days. So, shame or something or other [laughs], pushed me into buying a Fordson Dexta, that was my first tractor. So, um...

HY: [Interrupting] So, do you remember when that was? When that would’ve been?

MB: It was in 1961 and it took a while to, I drove very slowly of course, but I got to get [corrects self] come to terms with it and still kept the horses. Sadly one of them died of grass sickness, grass stavers, which was a very common thing on Lochtayside in those days, and the other one lasted about four or five months and he, I think, just died of a broken heart. He just took pneumonia and that was it. So it was tractors, tractors, tractors after that.

HY: And did the tractors affect how many people worked on the farms or did it pretty much stay the same?

 

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MB: Un, not really no because the amount of employed labour was pretty small. Next door, Kindrochit, which was on its own then, it was owned, it was rented from the Breadalbane Estate, which was still in evidence, by a man called Bill King who was a wool broker and he employed Murdo and Hamish who I’ve mentioned, Hamish Shorthouse. At Claggan there was the two shepherds, here there was myself. And, so no matter what you did you weren’t going to employ any more men for a small acreage like this, of arable ground, so it was pretty static for many years. I had the occasional help but it wasn’t steady labour just people giving a hand and so on. And the other places the [slight pause] the rate of employment remained static, even got less because the farm at Kindrochit across the burn was amalgamated with Claggan after the sale of the Breadalbane Estate which was a huge Estate as you probably know.

HY: Yeah. Do you know when the Ardtalnaig portion of that was sold because I can’t find it in any of the records, the actual date when they really sold this part off?

MB: Yes, I could get you that. It was September 1950, just before I came here.

HY: So that was quite late on.

MB: Oh yes, this was a sector of the Breadalbane Estate. There was [slight pause] Tullich, which is (you know where Tullich is?) two miles west, there was Kindrochit, there was Claggan and there was the croft, Sandy the Crofter, there was this place and then there was three [corrects self] four crofts going east the way which were farmed by a fella called David James who had two of them. And then Stuart Currie, who was known as the ‘hen man’ ‘cause he was a great poultry man, and he had grazings of two of them. And then that was, that block was sold. That was only a miniscule part of Breadlbane Estate. So that was 1950, but prior to that of course it was probably divided into blocks such as the one I’ve just mentioned and then the next one was from Tullich west almost to Killin and they’d be all sold off at various times probably before that. So it was, that was the sort o’ final, a final gasp if you like of the Breadalbanes, the Campbells, and they went away after that. And the Lady of Lawers, who was the seer, you’ve probably read about her, one of her prophesies was that the Breadalbanes would leave the area with a [corrects self] on a grey mare and that was actually true because they had a pony and it was on the train, the wee branch line that came down to Killin, and that’s how they left here.

HY: Amazing isn’t it.

MB: So it came true and many of her prophesies have come true.

HY: Did you pick up from many of the people who‘d lived here prior to you coming whether that break-up of the Estate [10:00] made a big difference to them? I’m trying to see if was a disruptive kind of thing or whether life just continued.

MB: Life continued, oh yes, just the same but [slight pause] Neil Forbus who was tenant farmer, he was rather, he had a rather low opinion of lairds and he was offered to buy the place but he turned it down and stayed on as tenant until the person who bought the whole place from, Claggan, from the Breadlabanes. He was, I think he was one of the Gnomes of Zurich and he was South African called Reggie Thoms and he bought it and kept it until 1970 when he sold it to now the late Colonal Berry whose brother was Lord Camrose who owned the Daily Telegraph, I don’t know if that means anything to you. Anyway, Colonel Berry stayed here for a number of years and then he [slight pause] I think left and then he died shortly after that and then it was bought by the present owner, the Honourable Peregrine Moncrieff, who you’ve probably heard of. So that’s the sort of brief history. This place was bought by Major Darling and people said oh he should not have bothered buying it because he couldn’t afford it, he was far better being a tenant, and anyhow he bought it and that was

 

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that. So in a way it was good ‘cause I could buy it off him and again that’s just a sort of brief, if I went into details I’d be here all day.

HY: So what’s your kind of feeling about, did Ardtalnaig feel like a set community, like obviously people from Claggan as well, did that feel like a distinctive community or would you broaden it out?

MB: No I suppose it would be a small community, I think it ran very much along with Ardeonaig but when I came here they had the old school which had very recently closed and they ran bowls in the school, a bit of it. And occasionally, very occasionally, they had a dance there and probably had more that sort of community things before I came. After that it sort of, I think probably it was bought after that and any of that sort of community things went on in Ardeonaig…

HY: Right.

MB: …or Kenmore. So it, I suppose you could say it was a dying community [slight pause]. There was one or two of the oldies died, old Maggie who was Sandy McLaren the crofter’s aunt, she was deaf and dumb but a beautiful writer and she stayed in a wee bothy up the road and then I think she was taken away to a home. In the, call it the village hamlet, there was a youth hostel which was closed by the time I came here and the keeper, Duncan McNab, stayed in that. Then there was, next door to it, known as the gunroom, that’s where all of the shooting barrels stayed, next door was Duncan Fisher the roadman, then there was Sandy McLaren and old Maggie and the school [slight pause] oh yes the school house was owned by John Crerar who was the late tenant of Kindrochit. He retired before the Kings took over and Murdo McLeod, he retired there until he died in 1963 with his housekeeper. There was a shepherd in Tullich, there was a hierarchy of shepherds, one came went and so on for the next ten years. So that more or less was the community, it wasn’t terribly dynamic because most of them were, if not pensioners, getting that way and not a lot went on. If you wanted excitement, which I didn’t really want a lot of, you went out of here, even then you didn’t get it.

HY: So which way did you go, did you go to Ardeonaig or did you go...?

MB: Well I think the community has been described as leaning towards Aberfeldy, whereas in Ardeonaig they lean towards Stirling and Killin, so I think if we went anywhere for groceries or anything like that I think it was Aberfeldy, and Kenmore, there only a shop in Kenmore you see, [15:00] and you had to go to Aberfeldy which is 12 miles [15:00]. So it wasn’t, you wouldn’t call it a thriving community, it was pretty static.

HY: So that leaning, with Ardeonaig towards Killin, has that always been there then, like in your kind of living memory, like…

MB: Yes.

HY: …it’s not more recent times?

MB: If you look at the old maps you’ll see the parish boundary and - what’s the other one? – two or three of these boundaries ran up, do you, you don’t know the burn called Allt a' Mheinn do you, you know where the old Manse is?

HY: I do, yep.

MB: Well, the burn that’s come down there that was the march, or the division. So west of that, the tendency was to go west, whereas this side was Aberfeldy. And even the mark…in those days there were markets of course. Killin had one and it dealt – I’m going into detail now which maybe you don’t need…

 

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HY: No, that’s great.

MB: Coloured cattle, Short-Horned Heriford, Killin dealt with them mostly whereas Aberfeldy was Aberdeen Angus.

HY: Okay.

MB: And, again we rather leaned towards Aberfeldy unless we had coloured cattle, and sheep nearly always to Aberfeldy or Perth. This was before the markets all started to close down because now of course it’s, it was Perth and now that’s gone too, and it’s now Stirling. So it is [slight pause] in that sense contracting, agriculture’s contracting. A lot of places sheep are going off the hills, over the last ten years. Not here, people are hanging on here and actually it’s [slight pause] not terribly rewarding, it’s a great life though. But that’s, I suppose, why people stay on. When you’ve done it all your life and aren’t qualified or anything else, your heads in a noose [said in a light-hearted manner].

HY: So did you take part in, like, the agricultural shows around here? Was that a big part of life or not?

MB: [Interrupting] No, I was never a showman no, but Murdo next door he did. He died now some years ago, but, you know, you attended the show and you attended the markets. If you were that type that wanted to show well of course you went, Killin show, Aberfeldy show, but no, I kept any lights I had well under a bushel.

HY: And did you take part in any if the kind of, ‘cause there’s quite a lot of kind of agricultural societies and stuff. Did you kind of join in with any of those?

MB: Not a lot, no, I was never a Young Farmer. [Slight pause] There was a Young Farmers’ and still is, a very positive one. But, no I was never a Young Farmer. An Comunn Ghaidhealach, the Gaelic Society, I became involved in that much later on. Having had a smattering of Irish Gaelic and a smattering of, a mixture of the two which is probably unintelligible but, anyhow I was interested and became involved with the Fearnan, Lochtayside branch, and for a while was president. And then, I was never one for bowls or cards or anything like that, I was a bit of a loner, lone ranger. So the answer to that is not a lot, no. [Slight pause] What else now?

HY: I’m always interested in how much people used the Loch as well because people don’t seem to use it much, you know, don’t associate too much with it, but it must have been much more important.

MB: Yeah, before I came, in fact at the outset of war, 1939, the steamer ran the Loch you see, and then it was closed down so by the time I came here the only time it was used seriously was in 1947 which was a very bad winter and the roads were all blocked so the mail and other various things came up just on a rowing boat, an outboard engine. But, the steamer, there’s all sorts of tales about the steamer. There was one about the captain, who belonged I think to Morenish. His name was, I think it was Dougie McNiven, and the story goes that on one very stormy day he was trying to, to bring his craft into the pier at Lawers, straight across from here, and it was very rough and a dear old lady on board went into a flap and she jumped about and started asking him silly questions and he was trying to concentrate and finally he said [mimicking a Scottish accent], “Oh do get the hell out of my road.” [20:00] And, of course, she took umbrage at this and reported it to the Board of Directors.

HY: Oh dear.

 

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MB: And poor Dougie was on the carpet, and of course the [slight pause] the Chairman of the Board of Directors understood his position and said, “But now Captain McNiven you’ve got to apologise to this lady, it wasn’t a very nice thing to say to her and just take that as a warning.” Well, about a week later sure enough he spied her among the passengers again you see, and he went over and said [mimicking accent], “Are you the lady I told to go to hell?” and she said [curtly], “Yes, I am!” and he said, “Well, you don’t need to go now.”

HY: That’s brilliant.

MB: You may have heard that story already.

HY: I think I may have, did you write that in the Killin News? Would you have put…?

MB: [Interrupting] Oh, probably, probably.

HY: Yeah, no, it seems vaguely familiar. It’s a great story though. And when would he have been captain [slight pause] or skipper?

MB: Oh, I should think prior to the war {slight pause]. Yes, because people who I’ve spoken to knew him, and were related to him so, yes, probably until, he probably was the last captain of the steamer. But all these piers, there was one – you probably know all this – there was one at Kenmore of course and then at Fearnan and then one here and one across the loch at Lawers and then one at Ardeonaig and then the base one at Killin.

HY: [Interrupting] So did the steamers zigzag?

MB: They zigzagged, yeah. But, then there was the coal pier here because the coals were all brought in and the wool and everything was sent away plus passengers. There was one story about, there’d had a hare drive here for white hares and they were, in those days there was a tremendous amount of hares and they had a cartload of them. And there’s a wee bridge down here, crosses the burn.

HY: Yep, I’ve driven down that way, yeah.

MB: And, the bridge collapsed and the cart tipped all the hares into the loch, they were supposed to be going into the steamer but. The late Hughie Fraser, who a neighbour of mine, said, “Oh” he says, “for weeks after that there was hares floating about the loch.”

HY: [Laughing] I can’t imagine that.

MB: That was one that didn’t work.

HY: Yep.

MB: And then there was another old character at Fearnan, I think his [slight pause] Baldie Robertson, Archie, Archibald, Baldie Robertson. And, apparently his wife was somewhat overbearing, and he used to get tips from the passengers coming off the steamer and he would slip the half-crowns under the turn-up of his trousers so he could go and plonk them when the wife wasn’t watching. But, he stayed in the wee Pier Cottage down there and [slight pause] on the top storey, one side was his office and the other side he kept his hay, his turnips and his tatties and everything, and then down below he and his wife lived a quiet life. But, the boys used to play tricks on him, one being he had a cow and he’d put the cow up on the common, which is where you put any grazing cattle, and the cow was due to calf and poor old Baldie was in a state and would keep going up to John Crerar who was the then tenant of Kindrochit and say [mimicking voice], “When is she going to calf John? Come and have a look at her. Come and have a look at her.” Of course, the boys got to know this and they

 

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found a roe deer which had been lying in the loch and all the hair had come off it by being in the water and they took this carcass and they put it in the grup behind the cow and this was full body that she’s calved, but they never heard another word. But, they got their own back because apparently they’d taken a cart to bits, a horse-cart, and put it together on the roof [HY laughs] and they ran away. But, these are just all hearsay things that may amuse you. Baldie’s wife died and he was just coming up the pier road a couple of days later, and Andrew McLaren, which was Sandy’s father, the crofter, used to run the van with groceries. He was just coming down across the bridge and he saw Archie coming up, Baldie coming up the road and said [mimicking voices], “Oh hello Baldie, I’m sorry to hear about your wife.” “Aye, she’s away. Have you got any stirks for Aberfeldy next week?” So his sorrows were easily dealt with. But, at that time it was McDougalls in here, this was long before Major Darling, and there was two sisters ran this and I think their brother was in Claggan, but they were all run together as a tenanted farm, and they were very good to poor old Baldie. And, I think he hadn’t been very well fed because they took him in and they were rather [25:00] genteel ladies and they came through to have lunch in the dining room, and they left Baldie in there having given him a great feed of rice and he was so hungry that when they got them away he go into the oven and got the rest of the rice, a whole big dish of rice, and you know what rice does when you eat it, it swells up. It killed him. It literally, I mean he just [slight pause] well, didn’t burst but it did kill him.

HY: Made himself very ill and....

MB: Unusually strong, hairy feeling. So that was the end of Baldie.

HY: Oh dear. It’s interesting you say about the grocery van because I’m quite interested, like, do you remember there being groceries delivered?

MB: Not horse ‘n’, Andrew had a horse ‘n’ van, one of these covered vans, but when I came here there was [slight pause] two buses a day going east and two buses going west on a Tuesday and a Thursday, that was McKercher’s run these buses and they went round the loch.

HY: Wow.

MB: As well as that there was, I think I’m right in saying there was [slight pause] a van of some type every day of the week. McKercher’s, who were the big grocers in Aberfeldy, the Co-operative, there was McGregor’s the Butchers, there was a fish van, and there was another, bit of an entrepreneur who ran a van, competing with the others. But, I think every day of the week, possibly not on a Saturday, but more or less everyday there was a grocery van so you didn’t need to go anywhere. Plus the fact that you were almost self-sufficient, had our own sheep, our own cattle if necessary, grouse, pheasants, deer, fish if you wanted and all you had to buy really was coffee, sugar, tea and whiskey. But, you were very nearly self-sufficient, own garden you see. So, as I say, it was changed days now ‘cause very few folk have any gardens and there aren’t any vans. Because, the emphasis now is people going out rather than somebody coming in. So that was [slight pause] then, but prior to 1950 or probably prior to the war even, Andrew Mc[slight pause] Andrew McLaren, I think there may have been other grocery type vans would come round but I didn’t know, I don’t know, and again there was of course the post.

HY: Right.

MB: And still is, not always as quick as it used to be.

HY: No, it’s terrible. So how often do you think most people would have gone out then?

 

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MB: Rare, rare [slight pause]. Neil Forbus had a blue, I don’t know what make it was, a large blue car and he would go down occasionally. When I came here I had a motorbike, I graduated to a Bradford van, a two-cylinder effort, which was like a tractor, it could go anywhere. But, very few others, I think Duncan McNab might’ve had a car but, no, people - the Darling’s here, Major Darling had a car - but is was a rarity. In fact, if you saw more than five or six cars passing in a day you wondered what was wrong. Now, to cross the road with sheep or a tractor, inevitably there’s three or four cars on either side of you. This started in 1959, the summer of 1959, there was a bus smash on the other side of the loch.

HY: Oh, right.

MB: And, all the traffic was diverted.

HY: Oh, I see.

MB: Now whether this opened the tourist’s eyes I don’t know.

HY: Realised that it’s a much nicer drive [laughs].

MB: Well, this is it. And ever after that it’s increased so, you could probably stand sorting a fence on the roadside for an hour and I could guarantee you that sixty cars will pass you.

HY: Wow.

MB: One way or the other. So it’s a different story altogether.

HY: Yeah.

MB: In fact, we’re now slaves to the combustion engine.

HY: Yeah.

MB: We are.

HY: That’s true.

MB: All over.

HY: So, there was when you moved here, there a sense of this being kind of not used by anybody other than people coming to the area, like that [the north road] was the main road still?

MB: Oh, yes.

HY: Yeah.

MB: It wasn’t, looking across now it was, have you seen bees going into a hive? It’s like that the other side of the loch. And then on weekends the motorbikes are screaming, the motorbikes and you think, “Oh, now something’s going to happen”, and it does occasionally. But, no, people didn’t move much then. Sheep sales [slight pause], [30:00] sheep and cattle sales, and the Kerricher’s ran a float and [slight pause] might have been one other, and then [pause] I suppose, I don’t know what was the catalyst but there was more live-stock trader [corrects self] wagons on the road. Ewe-hogs, you know what a ewe-hog is? [HY shakes head] That’s the current year’s ewe lambs, once they come off their mothers they’re kept for [HY: Okay, yeah] stock. Well, they go off for wintering up in Speyside.

HY: Oh I’ve heard about this, yeah.

 

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MB: And, that increased then I took my own lorry across in Ireland and it ran till it couldn’t run anymore and then I got another one, and a few folk did have their own. But then, by then the vehicles were getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and now it’s six wheelers and trailers and Arctic’s, and it’s a different ballgame altogether. So that adds to the traffic on that road as does the extraction of timber and timber lorries and the road doesn’t really stand up to it. You can imagine a three-axel vehicle, the amount of scraping, and then of course you get a frosty year like the last two and potholes start, they’re filled in temporarily and very soon they’re there again. And, people break axels and springs and burst tyres, but I won’t complain. We have a road, and most of the time it’s open. But, yes, the combustion engine again, I repeat, is the deciding factor in a lot of things, ‘cause we’re so reliant on it now. Of course in those days there was no television. We didn’t here get television until 1981. And even then it was pretty dicey [chuckles].

HY: Was that the, kind of, the normal signal then wasn’t sent? You couldn’t pick it up here?

MB: I think we had difficulty initially because my late wife got - now what was his name? – Foster, from Killin, to come and look at it and he couldn’t really get it going and then somebody else came and then the man who had your bit up now at Ardeonaig, Barry Barrett. He, I think got someone in, I don’t quite know how it all came together, but we got television and it’s now pretty good on the whole.

HY: Yep.

MB: Except for thunderstorms or [slight pause]…

HY: A lot of lightning storms.

MB: …snow. But, now these boys have to go up and get these electric wires in a blizzard. I’ve got a lot of admiration for them ‘cause they go up in some awful conditions. But, the television, most of the time it’s pretty good. Not that I look at it much, weather or the news and that’s about it.

HY: So was the telephone, kind of, connections and stuff, was that all in place when you came?

MB: No, no, I think my employers got a telephone in [slight pause], I think during my sojourn here, because I remember the, Major Darling belonged to the Borders and used to go down on holiday sometimes. And, I would phone them and give a report but it was very like the old story, you dialled or anything like that. No, I think you had to ring up and get a telephonist to put you through, and then eventually you got a dial and it went on from that of course.

HY: [Quietly] Gosh.

MB: But [chuckling], there was one story, somebody along the lochside was the telephonist, an old lady, and the story was that two other women were talking on the phone and of course you had to go through the [slight pause] operator. And, at last one said to the other [mimicking voices], “Oh, can we just stop talking, that bitch on the exchange will be listening to us.” And the voice came, “I was nothing of the kind.”

HY: Oh no. You still get crossed lines these days but you can’t quite hear what people are saying. [Laughs] Oh, that’s really interesting. And did you use, I assume your local pub was the one in Ardeonaig was it? There wasn’t one here was there?

MB: Well no, you see, again when I came here [slight pause] Ardeonaig Hotel, as it is now, was just a sitting room, a dining room and two bedrooms and a couple called Mary and Eric Valentine ran it, just as a temperance hotel. And then about 1967 they got a licence, and then they weren’t there very

 

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long after it was sold. [35:00] And since that it’s been coming up, and up and up and becoming, it got a licence of course, and it [slight pause] was enlarged and it’s quite a big place now as you know, well in comparison. And, it’s had various, a lot of owners, and it, it was until Croft na Caber started the only licenced premises on the lochside. And then Croft na Caber started, again I think Barry Barratt took it over, that’s your predecessor, and then it got a licence, but now it’s, well it’s razed to the ground as you probably know. So I’m not quite sure what’s happening there, there’s all sorts of wonderful plans and yet more and more and more and more and more houses. And it’s, I remember saying long ago, before I give up here they’ll be houses from end to end of Loch Tay and it’s getting that way very quickly. It’s, Loch Tay’s becoming very like an American lake in the Rockies, there’s all these chalets and houses all round them. So, I’m being a bit cynical but it’s true. [Pause] I suppose as one who likes peace and quiet [HY: Yeah] these grate a bit. But, going back long before I came here, I think these blocks of farms and small estates were let to probably shooting tenants and [slight pause] Colonel Crabbe whose daughter Judy Bowser now – Auchlyne, do you know Auchlyne, as you go west of Killin?

HY: Yep.

MB: Well, Colonel Crabbe I think took the shooting here for a long time because he was very fit and he would walk with the arms at the, at the, going horizontal, and he would walk and walk and walk and walk. Nowadays it’s argocats and quadbikes and so on, but in those days everything was done walking. But it was a shooting estate and sheep farming. In fact, I think Claggan’s probably one of the leading sheep farms in south Perthshire, along with Auchnafree and Remony and [slight pause] Invergeldie. So they were well-known, they were really the cream of the sheep farms. And of course now the Taylors are at Dall, and they’re the, some of the leading lights too. Prior to that, I think again was McDougalls, the same clan that had Claggan here had Dall, and then Willie Taylor, that’s Kenny and the late John’s father, took it over – I’m not quite sure of the year but I’m sure it’ll be prior to the war.

HY: Yeah, I think it was just before the war.

MB: Oh, was it, uh-huh. But, of course John was in Ardeonaig – do you remember John?

HY: No, he was just before my time.

MB: Sadly he died two or three years ago, he was one of the two brothers, but his daughter Eilidh, who you know, and Neil have taken over and so it’s, still it’s status quo. So many other places, as I say, have stocks been put off because, for various reasons. A lot of it’s this, this [slight pause] over-indulgence in forms. Since the EU, you’ve got to have license to [cuts off], you’ve got to have passports, and there’s tagging and they insist on a hundred per cent. Well, on a big hill farm you’ll not get a hundred per cent. You probably won’t know what I’m talking about when I say that whole [slight pause], ewes will come in whole-lugged which means that a ewe will come in that’s never been ear-marked which means that she’s been, hasn’t come in for five years.

HY: Wow, gosh.

MB: She’s lambed, been lambed, was never marked, and at the very, very big [slight pause] sheep, sheep – I was going to say station – farm like the Mamore Forest for instance, thousands and thousands of acres, well you will not get a hundred per cent. And someone sitting behind a desk in Brussels who’s never seen a sheep in the raw, trying to lay down the rules it just doesn’t add up [40:00], and it’s putting a lot of people, especially those that have young family who don’t want to follow, they sell on, give it up, put sheep off, which is a shame from a sheep farmers point of view. But before, again, before I came here it was pretty intensive, they were all sheep farms and some

 

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cattle and a decent living was made. But now it’s a struggle. Although the lamb prices have gone up, that’s fine but so’s everything else: fuel, feeding, fertiliser, the lot. I hate to be negative but facts are facts.

HY: No, that’s true. So you’ve got one daughter, is that right?

MB: One daughter yes.

HY: So did she go to school in Ardeonaig?

MB: She went initially to Ardeonaig and then to Aberfeldy, again leaning towards Aberfeldy you see. Yes, she went to Ardeonaig, and that, those days it was quite a thriving wee school. Course it’s no longer.

HY: So when would she have gone? What sort of year would she have gone?

MB: Well she was born in ’59 and she would go to school from sixty [pause] four I should think, and then graduated on probably in the early seventies to Aberfeldy. And then she got married and they’re in Perth now. So that’s all that I managed [laughs]. But she loves to come back here. In the meantime, I actually sold the place to a German, Doctor Von Stosch, in 1993. I let it be known that I would like to let somebody else have the burden of keeping the bank at bay [slight pause]. At the same time I would like to be either tenant, manager, caretaker or something that meant I didn’t need to shift, and I had about, almost forty applicants of all nationalities, Europeans the lot. And they all said, “Oh how lovely, we’d like to see you”, and never came back. And then this gentleman came and he was mad keen on deer-stalking, I think a stag must have looked at him over the skyline, and he was lost. Within six months the deal was made and he now comes just for the shooting season, and maybe for a couple of months in the summer. He’s now retired as of the 31st of May so he may come here more often, I don’t know. But, he’s only interested really in the shooting and the stalking, he’s not a fisherman and he’s not a farmer so it’s left to me to carry on farming which suits me fine.

HY: Yep. You keep going. So when your daughter went to the school did you have to take her there or would she just walk?

MB: No, well, there was a [slight pause] various people did the school run. At one time it was a fella called Donald Malloch who worked in Ardeonaig Hotel [HY: OK] as the, looking after the wee farm. And then there was a fella Jimmy Willock whose son has a wee cottage – you probably know it – as you go up the brae and on the left [HY: Oh yeah], just as a holiday home now. And then – you know anything about Donald Hancock? – well Donald’s father ran it. [HY: OK] And then, I’m not quite sure of the timing, it must have closed after that but then [pause] I think then, probably these people that I mentioned took the ones that were going to Aberfeldy, the more senior ones, down to Kenmore I should think and a bus took them on.

HY: Oh, OK. I wondered about that. Did she use the boarding school at all? You know there was a boarding kind of place.

MB: Well, no, that was more for people say from the head of Glen Lyon or somewhere, stayed in the hostel. But, no my daughter Deirdre came back here every day.

HY: [Echoing] Every day. That’s not too bad then is it?

MB: Hmm?

HY: That’s not too bad then coming back every day?

 

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MB: No, no. No, no.

HY: I was imagining it was a bit of a trek.

MB: I think a boarding school was, there’s two sides to the story. It makes, it can make people very self-sufficient, but on the other hand they’re taken away from their parents and their environment. That’s the other side of the story now. Which is the best, who knows? [Pause] An abortive attempt was made to educate me at a boarding school but I’ve learnt [45:00] more in the Iast ten years I think than [laughs].

HY: Where did you go to school?

MB: Glenalmond, across here.

HY: Oh, yeah.

MB: Which is pretty good I think, but during the war of course it was pretty monastic. You got fed, one thing and another, but you kept fit. And then having to go to Ireland again was quite a, an exercise. You had to get a sailing ticket and probably be examined carefully to see that you weren’t a fifth columnist but [chuckles] my grandchildren actually went there, both of them, Ryan and Fiona, so there’s still a connection. But I was never a very good scholar. Geography and, funnily enough, divinity, the rest was best forgotten.

HY: So, you got sent, your parents were still in Ireland when you got sent?

MB: Yes, well, my father was, in 1954, was terminally ill [HY: Oh, right] and once he died, I sold up over there and came over here.

HY: Okay.

MB: Having [slight pause] dipped my pen in the ink over here, I’d become or was becoming, slowly, integrated. I think it took about sixteen years ‘cause I know the people on the other side of the loch who are indigenous Lochtaysiders, they would watch carefully anybody that came in.

HY: Right.

MB: And I think probably the simple answer is that if an incomer showed that he could work as well as they could [HY: Okay] that eventually, eventually pass muster. But if you were a ‘dude rancher’ – do you know what a ‘dude rancher’ is?

HY: I can imagine [laughs].

MB: Well, if you were a ‘dude rancher’ and came and played here for a year and went away well that didn’t hammer in any nails.

HY: I think that attitude exists still, pretty much.

MB: Oh I think so, yeah.

HY: [Light-heartedly] So what happened at the sixteenth year though that made you feel like they had accepted you? You sound quite convinced of a set time.

MB: Don’t know, it’s very difficult to actually put pen to verse, you just felt at ease. And I suppose, as I say, if you could prove that you weren’t frightened of hard work which is very necessary, and the other thing very necessary for a hill farmer is a sense of humour. Even worse than that a sense of the

 

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ridiculous because so many things happen here that if you didn’t laugh at them you’d burst into tears and run away [laughs].

HY: Gosh. So was there quite a strong relationship with the other side of the loch that you remember? ‘Cause there’s hardly any that I pick up on now.

MB: Yes and no. Yes and no because prior to the advent of the motor car, there wasn’t very much, obviously they knew each other because looking at from both sides to each other’s places you, yes you were interested. But, for a long time I didn’t know who the people were on the other side, I didn’t even know the names of the places until I got a map. And then [pause] I suppose possibly becoming involved in Comunn Ghaidhealach [Gaelic Society], that probably, that probably opened another window. But then of course you met at the sales, that was one of the usual meeting places. But, no, it’s a physical boundary which all over the British Isles you’ll find, wee, little glens and particularly down in the south west of Ireland you’ve got these big sea inlets. You’ve got to go forty miles to go four. Well it’s the same here, you’ve got to go [HY; Yeah, quite a way] twelve miles to go one and a half across, so it is a physical boundary and it does tell a tale. Not so much nowadays because, as I say, the combustion engine but in the old days it was just a horse.

HY: ‘Cause there was a ferry service at one point wasn’t there between Lawers…?

MB: [Speaking over] There was at one point but I never remember that no.

HY: No, it was quite early on I think.

MB: Presumably that was a rowing boat. Probably contemporary with the steamer but then of course you branch out to all sorts of wonderful things, stories. Do you know what a urisk is? [HY shakes head] You know what a troll is?

HY: Uh-huh.

MB: Well, there’s all sorts of stories, you’ve probably read about them in Famed Breadalbane, these super human, super [slight pause] well I suppose super or sub-human bodies. There’s all sorts of wonderful tales which I won’t bother you with now, but they’re quite amusing some of them.

HY: Oh right, yes, some of the myths and legends.

MB: But the whole [slight pause] watershed of the Tay, there’s connections all the way down agriculturally, because of the march you only maybe met once a year, but then you probably knew [slight pause] if not personally you knew them by habit and repute or even just by repute, habit you left alone [laughs]. But, [50:00] do you know who I mean by Tom Weir [HY shakes head]. Tom Weir was a very well-known naturalist, writer, he used to write in various magazines, the Scots magazine being one. A number of years ago he did a programme on television about Breadalbane, the area, the Tay catchment, and it was divided into three: one was called ‘The rise and fall of the Breadalbanes’, that was about the Campbells of Breadalbane; the second was ‘The Lady of Lawers’; and the third was ‘The new settlers’. And for my sins Tom got me inveigled into the Lady of Lawers one, and [slight pause] he had it all to a very minute degree. He had a helicopter coming across, taking aerial photographs of myself [stutters slightly] a student, Richard Bancroft, and myself gathering. And then down on the sheep fank we, he stopped there and he was very small Tom, and I can remember leaning on my stick and looking as if I was being very coy at the ground but had I put Tom up on a railing or something I could have looked at him like this [looks straight ahead] but it just looked as if I was being very coy. Anyway, we discussed then the prophesies of the Lady of Lawers and the one that he used as his theme was of the jowel of the sheep who put the plougher from the land.

 

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HY: Oh, right.

MB: And what he, what she was trying to say was that the old crofting system would, would disappear and big sheep farms would come along, and it was the clearances in condensed form. And I was able to point out to Tom that on the other side of the loch there was four or five fields under the plough, the rest were all grazing which is the way to this day. Since about [slight pause] oh, the mid-sixties tillage has gone down and down and down, not, not least because if you plough any of these fields you spend the next three weeks lifting stones.

HY: Yeah [laughs]

MB: [laughs]

HY; Hard work.

MB: But, I’m just jumping from one subject to another.

HY: No, it’s great, it’s really good. Yeah, yeah.

MB: So, anything else you?

HY: I’m just, you talked about the houses coming up along. Do you kind of remember when you first sort of thought about the fact that lots of people were buying up like holiday homes? Does that kind of phenomena - seems quite prevalent here now but was there a time when that wasn’t really the case?

MB: Well, the first, strange to imagine now, the first time this happened I was out making hay in the next field here when a couple stopped, and they got out and said [mimicking a posh accent], “We’re looking for a country cottage.” And I think I looked rather aggressively at them and said, “We haven’t got any here”, end of story. But then after that almost [slight pause] I could almost say weekly people were coming looking.

HY: When would that have been, kind of? Would that have been the fifties or?

MB: [Speaking over] Oh, that would be ‘59, 1959, that kicked it off.

HY: Was that the year you said that had a thing the other side?

MB: That’s right. Well, that seemed to be the catalyst that started all this, and now of course there’s houses and houses, and planning permission, you see, it jumps about a lot. For an era, Perth and Kinross will say “Oh no, no we don’t want any houses”, you’ve got to have all sorts of criteria to get in. Then somebody else will come into power in the Perth and Kinross Council and, “Oh yes, you can build anything you like.” And it goes from one extreme to the other, but in the meantime they’re creeping like triffids [laughs] going farther and farther [slight pause]. And what that does, I suppose, it dilutes the original population ‘cause there’s very, very few now [pause] although I’m probably the oldest on-hands farmer on Lochtayside, I’m by no means the [slight pause] plenty of other people have been brought up here but then have left. And then of course there’s the hard-core of Taylors, they were brought up here, and of course the McDiarmids on the other side, several families there and they were - I won’t call them aboriginals, they’d come and clunk me – they were original, for a long, long time anyway. You’ll find these names in Famed Breadlabane and also the Survey of Lochtayside, 1769, all the names of the [55:00] landholders.

HY: Yep.

 

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MB: And that still holds to a certain extent but it has been diluted with incomers, like yours truly, and many others who come and go and just leave this hard-core of on-hands farmers, which is pretty well compressed into, what, I should think under a score now all round Loch Tay [slight pause]. Which - depends which way you look at it - is rather sad in a way. Other folks say, oh no this is progress. But we are an urban, an urban society now. On the whole.

HY: Yeah.

MB: To go even worse, you sometimes could say an anarchist society [laughs gently].

HY: Yeah.

MB: But I’m being a bit cynical, as always.

HY: I’m interested to know whether, do you identify yourself as a lochsider or –just coming, you know saying about urban society – as something kind of distinctive? Or do you see yourself as someone who lives rurally or, how would you kind of? I’m interested to see whether is there a sense of being a lochsider, even opposed to being a villager, you know at Killin or Kenmore.

MB: I think [slight pause] now having spent longer on Lochtayside than anywhere else, I would be very proud to be called a Lochtaysider. Basically, I’m an Ulster-Scot if it comes to that, foot in both camps. But, no, I’d be quite happy to be described as a Lochtaysider. I’m sure some of the older families, “Oh, what does he think he’s doing, he’s an incomer.”

HY: [Laughing] Even now?

MB: Even now [laughs]. But, no, as I say, having sojourned round here for 61 years I think I’ve got a fairly solid anchorage.

HY: And would the Lochtaysiders, would that cover people, say, in Killin or Kenmore or is it generally considered those out, outwith that?

MB: Well, you see Kenmore is a village, a big, biggish village and obviously there’s going to be a lot of people who weren’t born and reared here, as indeed in Killin, more especially nowadays. So I think it probably apply more to the rural aspect

HY: Right, yep.

MB: I would think. Even there, you see, it’s infiltrated by people who are just, well, good lifers. Your own business, Barry Barrett started up the Abernethy Trust I think, [slight pause] what late sixties possibly, not sure, you’ll know more about that than I do. And then of course there’s all, well Philip and Rosemary and I don’t know how many staff you’ve got up there. So, most, nearly all of them will be from outwith. But then they’re a business concern and they’re making their living on Lochtayside, not necessarily by the land itself but by the use of the land. So [pause] the real original population is very, very thin on the ground now I think [slight pause], very thin. And any that are there, so many of them have gone away to other things like computers or, it’s just the story of what’s called progress [pause]. What some of the old people, I’m sure old Sandy McLaren the Crofter up here, who’s buried up in the village, I’m sure on a moonlight night and he comes out and I say, “look”, he’ll throw his hands up in horror [laughs]. Same with Hughie Fraser who was the shepherd for Remony at Achianich. Well now his house, it’s got, well now it’s be re… [cuts off], the house he was in has been re-done up and then Roland and Penny had built a house on the rock which they now call ‘Rock House’ [HY: Yep] which [slight pause] well it was called Achianich and to me it’ll be Achianich until

 

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the day I kick the bucket, not Rock House. But then it’ll be easier for the, their friends who come in to say Rock House than try, an English person trying to say Achianich which sometimes…

HY: [Laughing] Yeah, I’m not going to try.

MB: [Laughs] Maybe it’s because Achianich means the ‘Field of the Fowling’ [1:00:00]

HY: Oh right.

MB: But I think they’ve probably misconstrued, it’s not fouling {pause], it’s fowling, wings.

HY: I think it’s probably just the ease of being able to say it isn’t it [HY and MB both laugh], definitely.

MB: But, now, these are the changes that have been wrought over [slight pause], well sixty years you see [pause]. People of my generation keep on, “Och well, we’ve seen the best of it, we’ve seen the b…”, but that’s what every generation there ever was will say that. But it is, it’s fact, because we knew what we were tackling, and there was less of this [slight pause] fiscal control if you ‘d like to call it that. In those days we just farmed and did what we’d done for generations I suppose. The minimum of form-filling, and petty fogging regulations, so it’s a different, I keep saying it’s not farming anymore it’s forming. But I’m being cynical and negative, but that’s the privilege…

HY: If that’s how you feel about it though, that’s….

MB: Yeah, you do at times, yes, you do. On the other hand, I wouldn’t like to be anywhere else [chuckles]. Even to go back to Ulster now, no thanks.

HY: Yeah. When you first came did you, did people here tell stories of the old days?

MB: Oh, yes, yes.

HY: [Light-heartedly] D’you know, as in the ‘good old days’.

MB: Oh yes, oh yes.

HY: So for them the 1950s…

MB: Well not, not necessarily all good but they told stories and there was much more storytelling then, the old, the Gaelic word for a storyteller is seannachaidh you see, and there was much more by word of mouth. When I came here, at every handling, sheep handling, they’d be more and more shepherds from the islands, or the west and there was a lot of Gaelic spoken which I could follow reasonably well provided it was a subject that I was acquainted with like sheep and cattle and farming. If it went into higher technology, well, I was lost [laughing] and still would be lost. But, it, there was so much [slight pause] sheep handling was almost like a community get together because in those days there’d maybe be twelve to fourteen people clipping and all the other folk who were called crogging, that’s catching the sheep to put to the clippers. And then people rolling the wool and the housewife and her daughter maybe coming up with food and so on and so on. It was really a good get together and that’s how the news travelled, there was no, very little wireless, or radio as you’ll call it. In those days you took your two wet batteries and got them charged and took them home again and then it went for a week and had to do the same thing again. There was no television, no telephone, so everything was by word of mouth and, well you can imagine, into that comes the Chinese whispers, so these tales grew by the telling and made them more interesting I suppose. In fact, that was the means of contact. But nowadays sheep farming’s, the clippings and handlings are done by contractors, a lot of it [HY: Right], unless it’s a big estate with plenty of workers. Small places, for instance here, I get contractors in to clip and, the dipping, I’ve got very good neighbours in

 

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the MacLaughlins next door who, if it wasn’t for them I wouldn’t be able to carry on. But it’s all in place, they maybe get, well one of Joe’s sons is across the hill here and he comes and helps them, and one or two others, but the old neighbouring has died a natural death. ‘Cause in those days as I say, any handling meant that the neighbouring five, six, seven sheep farmers sent either, or went themselves to assist.

HY: Yep.

MB: So it was, that is, it’s not dead but it’s not very lively.

HY: When do you think that really declined then?

MB: [Slight pause] I would think it was beginning to feel the draft in the seventies.

HY: Okay.

MB: ‘Cause here for instance, it’s a small stock about three or four hundred ewes. Next door, Neil Forbus, the man I’ve been telling you about, his son Robert, who sadly died at 28, he’d taken over and he had usually one shepherd, possibly two, and I would go up for four days at a time, gathering, clipping, dipping and so on. And then they would come down, they were only probably a day here, get a day at Kindrochit and a day next door, but we still did it. And [slight pause] [1:05:00] yes, it was, it was thinning out by then because there wasn’t the big squad and they began to get in contractors that come in, for the machine shearing and so on. In the old days, the old fellas would sit on their stools and gossip away and some of the younger ones, myself included, were clipping on the ground, but the old fellas would have these stools.

HY: Oh right, yep.

MB: And they’d have a crogger, who was the person who caught the sheep and took them to the stool.

HY: I see, yeah. Very efficient.

MB: That’s only for Blackfaces because they have nice horns but cheviots a devil. [HY and MB laugh]. But, it was almost a social occasion and, as I say, that’s how the news travelled.

HY: Yeah.

MB: And…

HY: That must have been quite a loss then really, to not have that connection with each other.

MB: Oh yes, oh yes. Probably nowadays they’d say, “Oh, what on earth are you talking about?”, but as one who’s come through it is a loss yes. They also fostered this, what I’d call a freemasonry, not just all over the Highlands but all over any hill areas in Scotland and Ulster, even the north of England. If you didn’t know the person, you knew somebody who did and that’s how, it was a freemasonry, and I often think that if I was to break down anywhere from Wigton to Caithness and I went to the nearest farmhouse sure enough, “Oh, do you know so and so, what’s he up to”, and this is how it works you see, or did. But again, as I say, it’s getting a bit anaemic.

HY: Yep.

MB: [Slight pause] But it is, it’s a great life. You won’t make a fortune but.

 

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HY: [Laughs] That’s not important. [Slight pause] ‘Cause I’m interested with, I know the Community Association as it is now was, I think, formed in the eighties, and the Rural, the Women’s Rural, that was the seventies which seemed quite late to me, that the Rural, and I’m wondering if that was because other forms of social interaction were dying out and people were trying to…

MB: [Interrupting] Well, television has ruined a lot of this. It’s the same in my own part of the world, in Glenfinn in Donegal, we used to, used to call it ceilidhing, or raking, going around houses at night in winter time, and oh they’d maybe have someone playing the fiddle, and telling stories, and tea, and I suppose the odd dram. And that was the, along with the clipping, that was the means of contact. Now I’ve got a friend over there, “Oh”, he keeps saying, “Well the television it has ruined all this.” People come in there and they, he can’t get speaking ‘cause they’re looking at the [slight pause] - what do they call it? - the ‘Corrie’ or whatever [slight pause] ‘Coronation Street’, which I never looked at. This is what’s happened, and it has all sorts of subtle effects. For instance, the patois, the dialect is becoming [slight pause] uniform. The old, for instance you could always tell a Lochtaysider, when I came here first, because they had their own sort o’ mini accent [HY: Oh, right], and if you go to Rannoch it’s a wee bit different, go to Balquhidder it’s a bit different. And if you had an ear for our dialect, it was most interesting.

HY: Oh, right.

MB: And, then of course the other thing now is this business of these mobile phones, and we can’t spell nowadays and [slight pause] instead of ‘you know who’ spelt the way we would spell it [pronouncing each letter] ‘u no hu’. And this is, also I think it…

HY: [Quietly] Affecting language

MB: Spoils, spoiling the [slight pause} ability to speak intelligible English, or Scottish, or whatever. [Clears throat] But whether this is going off the subject I don’t know.

HY: Not at all, no. Just as well you say the television only came in the eighties here, that’s quite late on [laughs].

MB: Well, it actually came before that, but I remember being up north with a friend up in Kinlochewe, and I phoned home and Deirdre my daughter came on, she said, “You won’t guess what we’re doing.” I said, “What on earth are you up to now?”, “Watching television.” This was October, 1981, and after that we had a black and white for a while, and then graduated into a big screen. But there’s so many stations, and to me absolute utter rubbish.

HY: Yeah.

MB: [Laughs] So I just stick to the three and possibly Alba, which is quite good. [Pause] But no, it’s a changed scene. [1:10:00] It’s not the hard graft that it used to be, but I don’t know that that’s, people are getting, I’m sure they’re getting softer. [Slight pause] I suppose we all do it, now you’ve got machines to do everything whereas in the old days horse work, lifting stones, which will always be the same. But, harvesting, well we either cut with a mower, what we call a tilting board, and there’s two on the mower, one driving the horses and cutting the corn and the other with a tilting rig, you pushed off so many she…when enough oats or barley got onto the tilting board to make a sheaf, whipped it off and usually women come behind tying, and then it’s put into stooks, and then it was put into bigger reeks and then to stacks. Hay was all built into rucks, loose, or even to what’s called preapags which is hand, just lifted up, for a wet climate tremendous, so lift it up, left a sort of a semi hole and put it down again and the wind get to blow through it. It’s a long-term, a long process, to put it into rucks, then to take it into stacks, then the bailers started coming in what 19…late

 

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1950s, and that speeded the thing up. And then there was small bales which had to be taken off and stacked and brought in. Now it’s, fella comes in with a big tractor and a big mower, cuts it, rolls it up into a silage bale, puts a cover on it and that’s it, and nothing’s touched. The only thing that, the sheep farming side of it hasn’t come as far there ‘cause you still have to handle them. But even that’s getting less onerous. [Slight Pause] But it’s difficult to say, having come through it all, what you don’t know doesn’t bother you. So when we did what we did years ago, you didn’t know there was any better way so you just went on and did it, and you got there. But it, and that applies I suppose to agriculture all over. These huge fields in the south of England, as you probably know [slight pause], a tractor you almost tell it in the morning get up and do that and it does it. And yet nobody ever puts a hand on anything. But it is, it’s a changed scene, and I’m only talking about the second half of the twentieth century. Prior to that [slight pause], oh yes, I can remember from - from 19 what? – probably 1932 I was beginning to take a sort of an interest in things. And, oh it’s a different ballgame altogether. Sowing seeds instead of, nowadays by a huge machine that puts the seeds in, puts the fertiliser down, it was done with a sowing fiddle.

HY: Oh, right.

MB: That’s a wee container, and a wheel with a, just like a fiddle, and it had a string, a rope on it which went round the central, the central point of the wheel, and the wheel was a flat thing with divisions on which when you pulled this would shrove the seed out.

HY: Oh, right.

MB: And you just, you took your measured step, you see, you did it every four yards you went up. So it was again a long, long-term thing. And sewing grass seeds with a sewing sheet which was just a jute container, shallow, and you took a thumb and two fingers of seeds [demonstrating] you did that, you did that, and you stepped, and it took, six acres would take you the whole day. But at the end your arms were still doing it when you went to sleep at night. [MB and HY laugh].

HY: You must have felt fit though, that’s the thing, always physically active.

MB: Well, there’s no doubt it kept you fit, oh yes. The trouble is it also worked the other way ‘cause so many of my type of hill farmers, for instance I’ve got two tin knees and two tin hips, and they’re worn out you see. But on the other hand sometimes you’re better to wear out than rust out [laughs].

HY: Did you ever use the railway, like, ‘cause [MB: Oh, yes, yes] the Killin one was still open until the sixties wasn’t it?

MB: In fact, when I came in here in 1954 I got, actually it was my late wife’s brother, to buy a horse in Oban for me [HY: Oh yeah], and the horse came back in the mainline, the, that was then the Stirling-Lochearnhead-Crianlarich-Oban, and then the horse was put off at Killin junction, and what was called the ‘puggy’, this branch line took him down to Killin, and I went up there, walked up, picked him up [1:15:00] and rode him back. So that’s what I did then you see. I suppose I could have got a float to take him down, but that was it.

HY: That must’ve, I mean I don’t know what it must have been like for people when that closed, I mean it sounds like the railway was a bit of a nightmare for them from the start, the Killin bit, the junction.

MB: Oh, yes.

HY: It seemed to be very expensive and everything, but it must have been weird having it shut.

 

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MB: Well, there was a lot of those spurs, railway spurs all over the country. Where I was brought up around Tyrone it was called the ‘horsebox’, and the mainline went about two miles from the village and they had this two storey carriage pulled by a horse [HY: oh, I see], and the horse had to pull it up, it was quite a pull, and my mother used to get out and walk, she’d, “Oh, poor horse, poor horse.” And coming down of course the horse just trotted along, carriage behind.

HY: Yeah, quite happy.

MB: But there was the First Class was down in the front and the Second Class was at the back, Third Class was up in the elements, so if you were up there in a blizzard of snow you’d… [laughs]. But, there was a lot of these all over the country [HY: Yep] and even down in Cornwall there was Bodmin Road, I always remember that, that was a branch line. So it wasn’t unheard of at all, a situation like in Killin. [Pause] But that again, 1965, that man Beeching [HY: Oh yeah], he should have been, he should have been shot at birth.

HY: I know.

MB: If he’d only known what, [HY: No vision] what an attraction the railways would be now. And of course it’s put all the traffic onto the roads, and it then leads onto global warming and all this. [Slight pause] It is a much more complicated life than it was.

HY: I try and imagine the people coming along on the train to the steamer ‘cause from what I’ve read they used to come down one side and maybe go off the other.

MB: I think probably these situations were repeated too. I think probably the land, the Breadalbanes probably wouldn’t have a railway going down Lochtayside, it had to be the steamer. And they wouldn’t have, allow the railway to come further west than Aberfeldy [HY: Oh, right]. So then they had to come by carriage to Kenmore [HY: Right] and by steamer, in fact Queen Victoria came up with, there was six boatman rowing singing Gaelic songs [HY laughs]. But again you see, harking back to my own youth, there was a wee branch line called the Clogher Valley Railway, it ran for forty miles, narrow gauge because the landowners, including my grandfather, wouldn’t allow a steam train to come through, it would frighten the horses. So eventually they had to capitulate and this wee narrow gauge came through, and the engine was so designed that they ran back to front so the driver could see there wasn’t any carriages on the way. And some of the lines went right through the middle of the streets in the villages, and they went about twenty mile an hour [HY: Yep], and they’d stop for any old lady with a basket of eggs [HY laughs]. So this happened all over the country.

HY: Yeah, it’s hard to imagine it.

MB: But here you see the, Glen Ogle it’s, again Beeching, that was a very scenic, although they had to have men on guard all twenty-four hours because of the rock falls.

HY: Yeah, there were quite bad ones weren’t there at times

MB: But, for nowadays tourist trade that would have been tremendous. Even to watch it going up there double-headed ‘n’. [Pause] And of course even now the, the, the sort of excursion they’ve got going from Crianlarich to Mallaig, part of it’s by steam train, that’s a great attraction. In fact I took two or three friends up last year and nice to go back to steam again.

HY: So what was your impression of tourism here? Like is it, is it just the people coming for the cottages, or do you think it’s changed at all?

 

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MB: [Long pause] Yes, I suppose, again to, the downside of it is a lot of people come to these cottages and they bring stuff from Edinburgh or London or whatever and they don’t do a lot for the local tradesmen. On the other hand, those that do come here obviously will buy stuff, or can buy stuff locally. [Pause] The emphasis of everything nowadays seems to be leisure. [Slight pause] [1:20:00] Earlier on we were talking about the roads and the potholes, now if you go from Kenmore across the hill to Glen Quaich, which heard described about a week ago as Glen Quack, d’you know the name by Mark Beaumont [HY shakes head], cyclist?

HY: Oh yeah, yeah.

MB: Well he, there was an article on him in ‘Country File’ or something, and he and his friend were coming up through Glen Quaich, which the announcer called Glen Quack which I thought was quite amusing, but that road is kept in tiptop condition for tourism. Our own road which is in everyday use is not and particularly your end of it.

HY: Yep, the Stirling end.

MB: Well last year, in fact I think it was included in an article for the Killin News, how they repaired that bit of road because prior to that [slight pause] we had a meeting, be four years ago now, to say how awful the road was west of Ardeonaig, and Pete Gottgens of, late of the hotel, actually was very [slight pause], very vocal about it and he put his case very well to the Stirling deputation that came up. And of course they said the old story, ‘you can’t take the breeks off a Heelman’ – d’you know that one? [HY shakes head] – well a Heelman wearing a kilt hasn’t got breeks so you can’t take what’s not there. [HY: Yep] So they reckoned they had no money, but I think he made such an impression, as did most of us, we had, all had a wee bit of a say. Three years later suddenly about eighty per cent of it was improved.

HY: Right.

MB: Course it’s going again now because of the winter, but it takes that pressure. There’s an old story about an old Blackface ewe, got stuck in briars and being a Blackface ewe she said nothing and slowly starved to death. ‘Bout a mile up the road somebody threw a bucket of hot, boiling swill on top of a sow, you know what sows are like, they scream their head off, of course all the guests in Aberfeldy and everywhere else came rushing you see. And the moral there is that if you don’t shout, you don’t get.

HY: Yep.

MB: So Pete and et al shouted and it happened, but somebody’s going to have to shout again I think.

HY: Talking of the council actually, one thing I wanted to ask you was, you know in 1975 where they redid the council, local government, do you remember that at all?

MB: Yeah, oh yes.

HY: And how people felt about the kind of dividing up into Stirling, and Perth and Kinross?

MB: Well I think…

HY: Because it had all been Perth before hadn’t it.

MB: Most of these [slight pause] happenings if you like are all thought out and decided upon long before the local populous has had a look in. And that applies to almost everything that happens. [Pause] I suppose you can quote the, the trams in Edinburgh, that’s just an example but it’s happened

 

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nearer home too. You’ve got Taymouth Castle, you’ve got Croft na Caber, you’ve got various other projects which have been pushed through despite the whimperings of the local populous because councils, once they get the bit between their teeth they want to do it whatever. And [laughs] I’m sure out of this discussion we’ve had you must think I’m an awful cynical old clown, but I think I’m voicing the opinion of a lot of people. But, if anything’s to be pushed through it’ll all be decided upon, and then they’ll put out a consultation, and [mimicking] “oh, yes that’s, we’ve decided that this has to...”, and through it goes [slight pause] against the practical experience of those that are on, that are on, on the spot. So, and obviously it can’t all be bad but a lot of these things are being pushed through to the detriment of [slight pause] the very thing that a lot of these people come to see, that’s the peace and quiet. As a founder member of the Lochtayside Association we see that every time we have a meeting. If it’s not litter [slight pause] messing up the woods and so on, it’s [slight pause] yes, spoiling what they’ve come to see.

HY: So was there a consultation about the, the local government change? Did they actually meet, get locals together? ‘Cause obviously it kind of divides Ardeonaig and Ardtalnaig quite kind of, more so than parish boundaries ‘cause they’re a bit fluid aren’t they, people can still operate, whereas the services provided was completely [1:25:00] kind of split. And I wonder if people had something to say about that at the time or…

MB: Well, see, as we mentioned before, the parliamentary divide was up at the old manse. [HY: Yep] Now these things were all [slight pause] they tried not, they tried to, not to call it Perthshire anymore, Tayside, but they actually did go as far as putting out a questionnaire – do you want to call it Perthshire or Tayside? And I think everyone who lives Perthshire said Perthshire, and they actually won. One of the few things they did win. My late neighbour, Alistair Duncan Millar, became convenor of the whole [slight pause] region which was a good thing because he was very articulate and he had been, he had stood for, he was Liberal in one of the elections, so I think he knew what he was doing, made a very good job of it. But it was a completely different ball game because it [slight pause] instead of it being a very close-knit community, it was spread too thinly. But I suppose it must’ve had benefits, socially and business, and business world. But anyway it’s a fact now and that’s it. See when you look at other places, we used to talk about Cumberland and Westmorland and now they talk about Cumbria so it’s a game that’s been [slight pause], the scope’s been widened, spread more thinly on the ground. So in that respect I think it probably wasn’t a great thing.

HY: Well with things like education and, you know, other services. I know the, the children from Ardeonaig, I’m pretty sure most of them still went, you know would go Aberfeldy way ‘cause it was so much closer than Callander. Whereas now there is a real split.

MB: Yeah, that’s right.

HY: If you’re that side, that’s where you go.

MB: I know.

HY: I mean, when your daughter went to school, would people from Ardeonaig have gone the same way as her or...?

MB: Some of them did I think. I’m just trying to think [slight pause] back. I think on the whole, they tended to go to the McLaren.

HY: Oh, they did.

MB: Oh the, well [slight pause] I think Killin was secondary isn’t it.

 

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HY: Oh, it was a low…yeah a lower one wasn’t it.

MB: I think possibly [slight pause] no, there was some from west the way, I’m sure Joan [pronounced Joanne] and her sister Janet, I’m sure they went to Aberfeldy. But they would probably have to be driven to Ardeonaig to be picked up, might be wrong on this but I’m pretty sure that Janet and Deirdre, my daughter, went to Aberfeldy. But there was so few you see. [Pause] There was a family of MacDonalds up at Brae, where you folks are now, I think they went to Aberfeldy. [Slight pause] Funny how these things, at the time you accept them and then once that’s gone you forget about them but I’m pretty sure, certainly a selection of them did go to Aberfeldy [slight pause] presumably because of the difficulty of setting on a special car for two or three scholars to go to Killin or the McLaren. And now these are things that, as I say, it’s there and you accept it until someone asks you a question forty years later [MB and HY laugh].

HY: No, it’s just interesting to know.

MB: But then you see, at one time in this glen I’m told, there were sixty scholars came down this glen to Ardtalnaig [HY: Really], the schoolhouse. The Dunan out here, that was a shepherd’s cottage[HY: Yep] – you know where it is? [HY nods] – that’s all been done up of course. But we used to foregather there when we were gathering up this ground and drum up, know what I mean the drumming up, make tea and so on [HY: Oh, yeah]. And then, och the, the vandals got at it, this is another of the downsides of tourism you see, and they tore it to bits. In the meantime, Peregrine’s done it all up and it’s got a Ray Burn and everything in it, don’t know if it’s got television or not but it. But that was one of the houses, that’s the furthest out one, and they would come down there, probably every day except in a really bad blizzard. And then up the glen there was [slight pause], I’m just running over the names, Leadour, Tomfluir, Claggan, Achomer, Tullichglass all these wee holdings would all have either shepherds or keepers or whatever, would have maybe four or five a family. In those days they had big families you see [HY: Yep, and they would all come down]. So you can imagine how this small focal point, and also they came along from Tullich, Tomnadashan [slight pause], [1:30:00] here, further east, all went to Ardtalnaig school, and old Sandy used to tell me there was sixty scholars. So that’s quite a lot. And, then there would probably be two teachers [pause].

HY: And one last random question, just ‘cause my supervisor is looking into the mines - you know the Tomnadashan…?

MB: Oh, yes.

HY: She says Lord Breadalbane brought a lot of Cornish men in and she wonders if they all just went, you weren’t ever aware of stories of the Cornish kind of influence here?

MB: You know there’s a, a silver mine out on the top? You’ve been at it have you?

HY: I haven’t actually, I should.

MB: Well, take a turn out sometime. There’s the Tomnadashan mine, that was copper, in fact in a very wet spell you can see the verdigris on the road. Out to, right on the ridge Meall nan Oighreag and Meall Mor there’s a wee, almost a wee village of, well they’re ruins of course now, miners cottages. Now, they were Cornish, ‘cause they had wee trial mines up here too you see, they were Cornish, also some Welsh, because there’s some of the Welsh names down here still, Joneses. I’ve never heard actually any direct connection with Cornwall, but I know they did this all over Scotland and Ireland, they brought Cornish because they were very good at mining. But that silver mine, a friend of mine [slight pause], he had one or two folk with him, we went out to look at it and he was

 

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actually a bit of a lapidarian and he got in among the detritus and he got a slight, tiny, sort of like an, almost like a finger nail paring of gold. And apparently, you’ve probably read this too, they got enough gold to make a signet ring for the Marchioness of Breadalbane. So that was the gold/silver mine which is, all the ruins are still there, and the, the trial, what they call the trial drift where they’ve dug in, not really a mine but. And then the Tomnadashan mine, of course, you’ve been at that have you [HY nods]. Well of course they had I think probably an aerial ropeway down to the shore, and you’ll find the [slight pause], I’m trying to think of the word for the burnt rock, because they had a furnace down there to extract the copper, and it’s a, there is a word I just can’t remember but it describes the burnt out rocks, you’ll find them still on the shore [HY: Oh, wow] where they processed the copper, and then went away down by steamer you see. But anywhere where you’ve got a, a lot of [slight pause] folding, high hills and folding, there’s tremendous pressure which produces in a roundabout way these minerals: gold, copper, zinc, lead, there’s a lead mine at Tyndrum of course. And [pause] that’s where you find these materials, and this is one of them of course. In fact, within, oh what’s it, it’ll be thirty years ago now we had various mining groups came, and I was getting three hundred a year out of it. They’d come so they could go and play up here [HY: Oh right], they had tapes all over the place and they had electronics but they never found very much. But, I was fine about it [MB and HY laugh], weekly pay packet.

HY: Oh, that’s interesting. Well that’s great. Well I’ve taken quite a lot of your time already so that’s wonderful, I may come and talk to you again though, I threaten I may come and talk to you again.

MB: That would be nice [laughs]. But you see there’s an old saying, ‘time doesn’t matter north of Dunkeld’. Have you ever heard that?

HY: [Laughing] No.

MB: That’s, you know if someone’s in a hurry, “Och, what about it. Time doesn’t matter north of Dunkeld.”

HY: That’s nice.

MB: As you go north and west, time matters less [HY: Oh right] and less and less. Life’s much, much slower tempo.

HY: Well, it’s been lovely to talk to you [MB: Anyway, now listen…], I enjoyed that. I will listen back with great interest as well.

[Recording ends]

 

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Appendix 3: Oral history transcripts

3.2 Eilidh Campbell

Name of interviewee: Eilidh Jane Campbell (EC)

Gender: Female

Date of birth: 7th August 1973

Place of birth: Perth, Scotland

Date of interview: Tuesday 17th January, 2012

Name of interviewer: Helen Louise Young (HY)

Audio length: 45minutes 31 seconds. Five minute time markers are given in [ ].

HY: Okay, if you just confirm your full name, date of birth and place of birth for me.

EC: My name is Eilidh Jane Anne Campbell, my date of birth is the 7th of August 1973 and I was born in Perth.

HY: Okay, and what’s your maiden name?

EC: My maiden name is Taylor.

HY: Okay, so have you lived in Ardeonaig all your life?

EC: I have, well I have more or less, I’ve been backwards and forwards to university and different things, but I have been here most of my life, yeah.

HY: Where did you go to university?

EC: I went to Stirling University.

HY: Oh okay, and what did you study?

EC: I studied science, biology and environmental science, it was.

HY: So was it just, like, when you went university that you went away and then you came back after? Or did you do something else?

EC: More or less, I, I worked in Edinburgh for a wee while and, but I was really not away for, maybe five years or so maybe.

HY: Okay, what including university?

EC: Yes, probably, yes.

HY: So what was it like growing up here, as far as you can remember?

EC: It was really good, you remember sort of all, I suppose it was quite, it’s a quiet village really so probably missed out on sort of growing up in a, among a lot more children, but it was lovely ‘cause it

 

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was so easy to, and you could just go out and play, and there wasn’t anything to worry about. When I was at [slight pause] school, there was maybe fourteen in the school at most so it was, it was a nice environment to grow up in really.

HY: Was that the Ardeonaig school?

EC: Yes, yeah, yeah.

HY: And did you have all your schooling there?

EC: All my primary schooling, yes.

HY: Yeah, that’s what I mean.

EC: It closed the year after I left [HY: Oh right] primary school.

HY: And were there children from Ardtalnaig as well, in your…?

EC: Yes, the catchment area was Ardeonaig and Ardtalnaig, and, you know, there was a lot of people came and went. When I left school there was only, I think, four or five left in it, but the maximum there was fourteen at one point, and we had quite a few people in the village.

HY: And what was the school like?

EC: It was great, it was very, we had one primary school teacher who had been here for quite some time, Mrs MacInnes, and she left when I was in, oh, she retired when I was in Primary Five it was, and then we had Sheena Chisholm who was from Killin, she came and taught us from then, drove down every day. Mrs MacInnes lived in the school house in, in Ardeonaig, but Sheena travelled every day, and it, the school was great, it was just one classroom and, so the teacher had their work cut out teaching [laughing] Primary One to Primary Seven the whole time, so it was hard, but I think you got sort of great individual attention, compared to, if you were in a class of thirty children your own age, so from that respect it was very good. When I, up to about Primary Five, I had one other girl that was the same age as me, but after that I was, so I was on my own, as in age group, so probably that is quite, there is pros and cons of that too isn’t there, being sort of your, not having other peers. When I went to secondary school, I went on my own so that was quite hard probably, not knowing…

HY: And which school did you go to for secondary?

EC: I went to Breadalbane Academy in Aberfeldy. That’s where we all really went at that point [slight pause], I think it was mainly because that was the way it had been set up, there was a bus service to there for us although it was in a different region. Now the children go to Killin and McLaren High which, but that’s in Central Region area, I think the way the boundaries had been before that was how it had worked. So, it was good.

HY: So was secondary school a big change then, from, from living and going to school in a small sort of hamlet basically?

EC: It was really. You adjust quickly to these things, but you were sort of going into a class of sort of twenty or thirty people, all your same age, and meeting so many different people, and I think when I was a child, which was [laughing] a while ago, you were, you weren’t subject to meeting so many people through play groups and nurseries and things, we, so you probably were shier and didn’t socialise quite as much, but it was a big transition, but we travelled every day. There’s lots of people in the catchment area for Aberfeldy that would be having to stay in hostels that hadn’t [5:00].experienced that before, so it was a big transition.

 

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HY: So you say that, in terms of mixing socially compared to today as a child maybe there weren’t so many groups and things. Apart from school, what do you remember about kind of community events or people getting together?

EC: We always had a lot of community events in Ardeonaig, I think it [slight pause], that was one thing it was probably famed for. Nowadays we probably don’t have so many things because there is so much goes on in people’s family life, they have [slight pause], just within school, after school children have so many activities that they go to that we, they, we didn’t have when we were children. Although we didn’t have really playgroups and nurseries, but we did a lot of, you know, there would always be something on in the, the school, either there’d be a Christmas party, a Hallowe’en party, there would be ceilidhs and concerts, and because the school was there everything sort of centred around it, really. Probably now that there’s not the school, so there’s not the same community because there, there’s not so many people coming together in the one place, so it is harder to keep it going, but there was a lot, and they used to have ceilidhs and things, there was a lot of that type of thing which we don’t really have now I think. I think…

HY: And the ceilidhs, they weren’t just dances were they, would people, would people perform music as well?

EC: Used to have, used to have, it would be about March time, we had a sort of ceilidh concert where they would invite lots of artists from around the area, or maybe not, just locally, but a lot of talented people that were relatively local that would come and sing and recite, play musical instruments. That was, that was very good.

HY: And there was a community hall at one point, wasn’t there, across the way.

EC: That’s right, it really was sold before I really remember much about it, it was sold for a house. The hall was disbanded.

HY: Had that been used before the school for kind of those sort of events, or did the school kind of always get used do you think?

EC: I think it was, but it was really before my time, but I know that they did, and I’m not always a hundred per cent sure why it, there’s a lot of people that know probably more why, why it, why they didn’t keep it. I think it was because they had the school, and they, they used, used it there for the events, but…

HY: And you’ve got quite a lot of family in the area as well. How did that kind of, kind of influence you when you were younger? Did you get to play with your cousins, and…?

EC: It was, I’m an only child so it was good, you had, I had four cousins that just lived down the road which was great. Two of them were really similar age to me so we really played, we were sort of like brothers and sisters almost, we played sort of all sort of, particularly in the summer holidays you would just be outside the whole time. We used to go long cycles on our bikes, which you wouldn’t do nowadays [laughing] on this road because it’s so busy. And we just sort of, we’d play and enjoy the summer weather which we don’t seem to get now, which we did then, it was…

HY: Did, like, did you play down near the loch, or did you up into the hills?

EC: We probably, we probably did, we did a lot down there, well we were always really warned, I think it had been instilled in you from probably a young age, not to go close to the loch because it was so deep. We used to get a little bit where we could swim, just where it was, went out on a sandy bay but it goes down in sort of deep shelves very quickly so, so you were warned not to, to go

 

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into it too much., and the burn down here at the bottom at the hotel, the Ardeonaig burn, we played a lot in there, particularly after school, there would be a group of maybe half a dozen of us, all of us went to play.

HY: [Laughing] Just diving in for a swim?

EC: Yep, yep, it was…which probably, I’m sure they would, they will probably still, but I’ve not seen children doing it for years.

HY: No, at what sort of age were the children doing that, just?

EC: Be kind of, up to you know, sort of ten or so.

HY: And just what, coming out of school and going in?

EC: Yeah, well maybe after, go home and then come back after school….

HY: That’s brilliant.

EC: …in the nice weather. But yes, you definitely played a lot outside and amused yourselves in, in the nice, in the weather which, which you don’t probably get so much really, nice summer, long summer days, and just on the farm, we’d be helping on the farm, you know, they’d be making all the hay, that’s one thing I remember a lot, they made the hay sort of, they did it all themselves, my father [John Taylor] and my uncle [Kenneth Taylor], and it’d be great just, sort of, you’d be out helping them, just [10:00] good fun. And there’d be lots of people involved. Nowadays, it’s all such a rush and there’s not many people, but, it was, there was lots of great sort of spirit of being involved in doing things, because it was all sort of a community event, or, or just different people come, would be working on the farm, and helping. I suppose many hands…

HY: When do you think that sort of changed?

EC: [Slight pause] I think it would be probably, that’s probably a good sort of, when I was quite young, twenty or thirty years ago. There was less people employed on the farms, just probably things started becoming harder to, there wasn’t the same maybe money to pay people, it just became difficult, and there was less jobs available for, for people on the farms, so, and they would always be a lot [clears throat], it would be even before I was born it had really died out I would think, but there still was a lot of people around when I was young, but it was, definitely had died out. There would just be, a lot of people would come and spend short times with probably big families working in areas like this which was, which was good for a community, it was nice for them.

HY: So do you think that change in farming affected the way that people kind of experienced community here, you know the way that they related to their neighbours and things? What’s your impression of that, like, has it changed a lot in that sense?

EC: It probably has in the [slight pause], the people that, a lot of the houses, you know, the cottages that probably were farming cottages are now sort of sold as second homes, or rented out for holiday houses which is fine, but it’s not great for a small community really because they’re not having the people living there full time and getting involved in developing relationships, so, from that respect, and it’s the same all over the country, all these small communities are dying because the, the houses are empty, and the people have lots of second homes, and you just have to look in the village, you can count all the houses where there were once full time residents that are not, so I think it is difficult and the people that actually live in the community, that have lived for a long time, find it probably hard to relate to people having just a second home [slight pause] in the village, which,

 

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you’ve got to understand it from everybody’s perspective, but it’s, it’s, it’s not the same, and it’s maybe people that live in the cities that just have a city job and want to have an escape at the weekend [laughs].

HY: Escape with a nice view [laughs].

EC: Which is, which is good, and you do, you meet lots of new people too through that way, which can be nice, but it, I think it’s good for a community to have permanent people and families, it needs sort of growing families. And we have had a lot of families in and out which have, and probably a lot of them leave, you know, it’s sort of job related, influences why they have to leave.

HY: Yeah, that’s true.

EC: But…

HY: So, I’ve asked a lot of people about, you know, incomers coming in, and how long it takes for people to be accepted and stuff. What’s your, I mean obviously you’re, kind of always been here, and you’ve seen a lot of people come and go, what’s your feeling about when people get accepted as kind of, not so much being locals but they’ve been there long enough to be considered [EC: I know] one of the community?

EC: I know [slight pause], I know, I don’t really agree with it. I mean I’m probably guilty myself of, you know, you keep your distance from people when you don’t really know them obviously, but I feel people should, theoretically, be welcomed into a village and be accepted so that they feel at home and they can sort of be comfortable to, to enjoy where they are. I know if you’re living in a big area, you obviously don’t get to know your neighbours at all hardly apart from your immediate neighbours, so I mean, the one thing about a small community like this is generally most people are quite friendly and you get to know them quite quickly because your, your all sort of together and involved. But no, I don’t feel there should be any, I think people should be welcomed into a small place and, and be [15:00] accepted and, I’m sure they’ll, ‘cause they usually have lots of things to give through their own experiences.

HY: Yeah, yeah, I mean I suppose in a way your husband Neil came in as an incomer.

EC: He did really.

HY: Was he, was he known to people in the area at all or was it just that you met him?

EC: Och not really, just, just ‘cause he’d been involved with me, no he, not really he, he’s from Oban on the west coast so, and I think he’s found it okay adjusting [laughs]

HY: Yeah. It’s just the transition I suppose for anybody moving anywhere.

EC: That’s true, it is isn’t it, it is hard.

HY: ‘Cause I remember your mum Helen saying to me once about the fact that when she came as an income, you know, the feeling that it was a good twenty, thirty years before you really felt that actually….and that’s often quoted by people, actually, that kind of length of time, that…

EC: Oh they say that, yeah, yeah they say that espec…well, they say that you’re not local until [slight pause] until you’ve been here centuries. My, my grandfather came here in 1938 and, you know, latterly, you know, he always, even my father said, you know, they were, weren’t really local [HY: Oh, right], the people round the other side of the loch, you know, there’s a lot of the families that have been here generations and generations, and they are really, they, they don’t consider you as

 

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local yet [laughs] because you…which, but I think, I think, it probably is true that it, it can be probably a long time in many people’s eyes before you…but there is a lot of people moving about and coming in and going, particularly even in the village in Killin, you know, there’s changes all the time, so, so I think people have to be accepted quite quickly. But I understand what people say, yeah you feel that people think that you’re not, you’re not worthy of being a local [EC and HY laugh].

HY: And leading on from that, do you, coming from this area, do you feel that that’s quite an important part of your identity, of, of being from Lochtayside or…? I mean if you’ve ever considered it, but it’s the sort of thing of, you know, does that stand out, even as opposed to being from Killin? Do you see that as something quite distinctive or not?

EC: I think you do really. When we were children, it was a, you know, a big thing. We didn’t, because we didn’t really know the people in the village in Killin, we used to go up for the sports days, and it was [laughing] all, you were, you were different because you lived in this small village and they were from the bigger, it’s not a city, but bigger village. I think it is a very important, you know, I’m very proud of where, where I come from, always have been and, I mean, it’s such a pretty, beautiful area that, usually when you say that you’re from Lochtayside, people have heard of it and are quite wowed by it, if they’ve, so no, no it does, I’m, I’m very proud of, proud of the area and, yeah, I think it is important to…I would rather say that I came from here than from a city really [HY: Yeah, sure], definitely.

HY: So you didn’t, when you were a child then you didn’t have much kind of contact with people in Killin, or maybe even the other side?

EC: Not really, no.

HY: You didn’t really go out to much?

EC: No, you didn’t [slight pause], because the primary school was here we didn’t really, we, we did a few things, went to the sports day, we went swimming to Callander from primary school, then, you know, we had a bus, a mini-bus that took us in the summer months, we went to the, the McLaren High School, to their swimming pool there.

HY: Was that like a whole morning out of school then, to get there and back?

EC: Yeah, yeah, yeah, probably a whole day [coughs]. Which was about the extent of it really, we didn’t, whereas our children nowadays, because they, they’ve got nursery and different things, toddler groups, they’re really mixing with all the children in Killin, and the, particularly when they’re going to go to school there, they’re meeting so many more people, we didn’t have the same, there was Brownies that we went to, and…

HY: Was that in Killin was it?

EC: In Killin, but that was really about the only thing. There might have been a toddler group when I was little, I just don’t think there was, but I never, ever went to it. Like a playgroup they maybe called it then. But, so no, we didn’t have the same contact, and I think it’s really important for them, I was very shy as a child, and I think it’s really important that they mix socially and meet lots [20:00] of other children.

HY: And in terms of sort of shopping and things like that, did you go to Aberfeldy, or…?

EC: It was really Killin, but when I was quite small there was the vans that came round which I’m sure eople have said to you, there was McKercher MacNaughton’s, was a big shop in Aberfeldy, they had

 

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a delivery van, and there, they had sort of everything sort of the grocer’s things, and then there was another one as well that came, which I just can’t quite remember, but I was very small and I do remember them coming and they would bring bones for the dogs and Mum would order sort of all the shopping and they would come and deliver it, which I suppose is, it’s coming back to that with the [laughing] Asda deliveries. But we generally went to Killin, there was McEwans was the sort of general store in Killin which is where the Co-operative is now, and that’s where we did most of our shopping, and there’s MacGregors the greengrocer which sadly has just shut, that was there then, that was your greengrocer, and the butcher, which was MacRae’s which was exactly opposite the road from it, it shut about ten years ago probably now, that was probably the three shops that we did sort of all our shopping in really.

HY: And you don’t remember your mum ever going further afield for anything, no?

EC: She did, yeah, she went [slight pause], when I was very small I, I don’t remember, and I don’t think she really did go much further, there was William Low’s which then became Tesco’s, that’s where she went to in Perth, generally, as a super…that was a supermarket then, that was where she would go for her big supermarket shop, but that [slight pause], that would be once I was sort of ten or twelve, but I don’t, probably I don’t remember, but I don’t think we really went much further afield before that really.

HY: And did your family have one sort of car that they used to travel like off the farm, if you see what I mean?

EC: We did have a car, yeah [slight pause], which I suppose, it was not that long ago so I suppose that was quite normal, but my father did, they would have a farm vehicle as well that they, a Landrover or something that they would share, but we did have a car, I think when I was born we had, Mum said they had to get a car, just had a pick-up or something before, so [HY and EC laugh] couldn’t just throw me in the back.

HY: Do you remember the Post Bus at all?

EC: Yeah, very, very well.

HY: Did you ever use that, or…?

EC: Not a great deal to be honest, which is probably a real shame thinking about it now, probably do regret it ‘cause the service might still have been there, I don’t know whether, it’s not that long really since they stopped the Post Bus, but I do remember it very well, yes.

HY: And do you, were you aware of people using it? I mean, it wasn’t just something that, there was service that they could use [EC: Yeah], did people actually use it?

EC: Yes, there was quite a lot of people would use it, maybe more people that were maybe working at the Outdoor Centre.

HY: Yeah, bit like the Direct Response Transport now that they’ve brought in.

EC: Uh huh, that’s true, people that maybe didn’t have, you know, cars, there was quite a few people did use it, definitely.

HY: And there was a Post Office up the Brae at some point wasn’t there? Was that still around when you were…?

EC: Oh no, no, it had been shut

 

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HY: It had gone long before that?

EC: Yep, yep, I think even [slight pause] shut when my, you know, my father would be quite young really, I think.

HY: Right, uh huh.

EC: When that stopped being a Post Office.

HY: ‘Cause the, the old Post Office is down the bottom isn’t it? But, it…

EC: Oh you mean one up here?

HY: Yeah, someone mentioned it being [EC: I don’t know Helen], maybe at the, Upper Bealloch or something [EC: Yep] someone living, I don’t know.

EC: After the Old Post Office?

HY: Yeah.

EC: Right.

HY: Just trying to get to the bottom of it.

EC: I don’t know about that.

HY: Unless they just, was someone who just did the post.

EC: Was definitely before my time though.

HY: Uh huh, yeah.

EC: Thinking, no.

HY: I’ll have to ask Kenny [Taylor] that one.

EC: Definitely.

HY: So when you went away to university, did you in your mind, if you can remember back, think about the fact that you were going but you’d come back? Did you always think you’d come back and farm?

EC: Yeah [slight pause], I probably did, I hadn’t really made that decision when I went to university, but after I finished, yes I did decide [slight pause], I worked [25:00] for a bit and then went travelling, well I had come home by that time and then went sort of tra…my friends and I when we finished university went travelling sort of went Australia, New Zealand and had a sort of year out travelling and working, and it was really after that I sort of properly came home ‘cause my, we probably didn’t have anyone working with us at the time, Father usually had had sort of a shepherd and I just decided I would come home and be there to help him, so. And I am very glad I made that decision, I really enjoyed it [slight pause], but I think I probably did know that I would come home, I was always, I think it’d be different if they’d been more sort of family members, if I’d had lots of siblings, they, you know, if there was boys that probably would’ve wanted to maybe do it then they would have got the chance and I would’ve gone, but no, I’ve always really enjoyed the farm and, and [slight pause] deep down that’s probably what I wan…I did want to go and do something else, but when I was little I was always very keen on it, sort of always wanted to be a shepherd, shepherdess. So, yep, I think I probably knew I was going to come home, but it is very hard for people that maybe

 

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have bigger families, they can’t all sort of, maybe some of them want to come and live in the area but there has to be the work for them really [HY: Yeah], which they, they have to go where it is, it’s not always possible to, to live here. But then maybe lots of people will come back and retire to the area that have [laughing] been from here originally.

HY: So you say your, your dad always had like a shepherd. Did shepherds come and stay quite a while, like would they stay for a good number of years or was it kind of…?

EC: It really just depended on their family circumstances. Generally [slight pause], maybe if you’ve a single person, they’ve got a lot less ties, people that are married and then have family, it really depends where they want to be, where they want to bring that family up. Some people find it quite remote and really miss the area, area that they’re from at home, we’ve had people that have, you know, where their wives have been really home sick, or found it very remote where they have to live and want to maybe move back. Some have stayed, you know, some have sort of grew up in the area, you know, one particularly grew up in the area and he, you know, worked for a long time after he left school, maybe twenty years, and then there’s been others maybe ten, five years. It really depends on an individual’s circumstances [slight pause] [quietly to herself], it’s good if you can…

HY: And the other interesting thing I find here is, obviously you say when you went to the school children from Ardtalnaig came. I’m interested in the kind of relationship between the two hamlets in a way because obviously now they sit in two different council areas [EC: Yes], face different ways almost [EC: Yes] along the lochside, but they have this kind of relationship which is kind of maybe bound together with the Rural and the Community Association [EC: Yes]. Is, is that kind of, as it is now, is that how it’s been for as long as you can remember, or do you think it’s changed over the years, the way the two relate?

EC: Not really, I mean they probably were more so bound together when the primary school was open obviously, and [slight pause] probably with the boundary being in the middle it has split them up, especially with all the children from that area go to a different school so they don’t, the children don’t mix the same, although saying that, they do still, you know, because we still have the Community Association with the two communities, they still do meet and mix, and generally the families know each other so they do get together. But [slight pause] it, it probably hasn’t got as close a tie as it did, as it did then, when they, when they were all at school together. Although we, we do go to a, a toddler group in Kenmore with the children so that is good, so you do mix with, meet the ones from there as well and from Ardtalnaig, so.

HY: And with the Women’s Rural, like when did you first start going to that?

EC: Not that long ago really, maybe twelve years ago or so, so I’d be sort of in my, I would be maybe almost late twenties, or so.

HY: Were you the youngest at the time when you went?

EC: Probably I was, yeah, and then, but Ardeonaig Rural is very different from any other WRI because it has such a span of age groups, you know from early twenties to eighty odd, and you know a lot of people, friends say, “Oh, the Rural, that’s not for your age”, but that’s because they know ones that their grandparents maybe go to, when it’s all average age of sixty. And we do lots of different things and exciting things, but…

HY: Where do you think that’s come from then, that it’s a bigger, you know, ‘cause there must be other small rural communities with Rural Institutes that the younger generation haven’t gone to?

EC: Gone, I know.

 

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HY: Is it just down to the individuals here do you think?

EC: It must be, and they sort of encourage you to go along and it’s, I think you just get encouraged and then they maybe have quite a variety of things on that maybe interest you, so you, you go to it, so that, that is good. [Recording paused].

HY: So is it right that the Rural was sort of started off by, did you say your teacher was Mrs, Miss MacInnes?

EC: Mrs MacInnes, yes.

HY: Mrs MacInnes, was she kind of instrumental in that, some people say…?

EC: Yes she was, that’s right, yeah, I forgot that. Yes, she kind of started the group off. You know, they would have it in the school and it was her that really influenced them to get it going. But you know, it was just a small group of, I’m sure never more than ten or a dozen ladies, but they, they did a lot of things over the years, you know, they’ve competed in a lot of competitions and had a lot of fun. And quite a lot of them have gone on to do, you know, they’re involved in a lot of the committees, sort of in Edinburgh and, and different, sort of the higher up Federation and National Committees, which is good. I mean all these group things are good, when I was young we went to the Young Farmers’ [HY: Oh yeah], which was, I mean, the same sort of thing when you think about [slight pause], sort of influencing your life, you know, these sort of things I think are, type of groups are great for young children or anybody to, to get involved in because it gives you a sense of organisation and committees and how to manage these sort of roles, and we did a lot of public speaking competitions and things like that, [laughing] which I know you probably wouldn’t imagine from the way I witter on and erm and ah at these things, but I think they were all good for character-building, things that you, that, that you were involved in and you did and, and you meet a lot of people throughout the country that you probably still have contact with today, and I think these sort of things, especially in rural communities are really good for, for, for people. I know I was very shy probably before I went to that type of thing, and you know I, we did a lot of different, good fun activities and, you know, more educational things, and it’s just when you talk, I talked about the committees for the WRI, you could go, it’s with any of these organisations, you can go as far as you want, you know, you can get involved in the committees and go higher and higher and, you know, become very involved, and that sort of thing can eventually lead to, well we have the National Farmers’ Union for what it’s worth, to a lot of people there’s a lot of controversy over it, but that’s the type of thing people go on to be involved in and people that enjoy [slight pause] the sort of political side of, of farming.

HY: So was the Young Farmers’ you went to in Killin?

EC: It was Aberfeldy [HY: Aberfeldy], the Killin Group had disbanded really when my father and my uncle were young, and they were in a Killin Group which was stopped and it was Aberfeldy.

HY: So did everyone then from Killin and sort of the lochside go to Aberfeldy?

EC: Yeah, they still do you know, it takes a big catchment. When we were in it, it was a good club but since then it’s become a very strong club and they take part in a lot of sort of major competitions, and most of them we even did, and they do a lot of things.

HY: What age would you have been when you first went to that?

EC: It’s age…from age fourteen, really you can go up to age thirty, really you become an Associate at age, age twenty-six, fourteen to twenty-six and then you can still be involved up to the age of thirty

 

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[35:00] which, which is [slight pause] it’s good for people living in a rural area that maybe don’t have the same sort of youth groups on that they can go to.

HY: Yeah, so would you have kind of travelled along there with other people?

EC: Well before we drove, you know, our parents obviously would take us to meet, you know, wherever there was a car we would meet maybe along the lochside, we’d meet up with other friends that, or family members that maybe had older brothers or sisters that drove them [slight pause]. But the, the really important thing was getting your [laughing], your driving licence, seemed to be the thing and as soon as you were seventeen you were desperate to obviously drive because that made you so much more independent, there was no real bus service as, apart from the Post Bus as you said, but, so that was really quite an important part, to be able to learn to drive and have a bit more independence, ‘cause you really relied on your parents sort of trekking you round everywhere, which they did dutifully really [laughs]. If you really needed to go somewhere, they were good at taking you.

HY: And when you passed your test, was it just that you got to use the family car?

EC: I did, yes, and then I was very lucky, I did acquire a sort of, an old car, a sort of second-hand Fiesta, so I was very lucky. So I, I did get my own wheels, so to speak for, yeah, I was very, very lucky. So then you could drive all your, well luckily my cousin Kirsty [Taylor], she was a year older than me so she learnt to drive first and then she had, she acquired a car, a family car that was no longer needed, a little Jeep thing, so we toured, she tra…trekked us about to different things, so. You know these, that’s what happened I think in these, these areas.

HY: So when you went to, to university though, you did go and live there did you? You did stay in halls?

EC: Yes, yes, I did.

HY: Yeah, you didn’t try and trek in?

EC: No, no, no, no, no, no, stayed in, although I didn’t go too far away, but I mean it’s far enough away, but you know, if you’re doing a sort of full time course like that you probably can’t…

HY: Did you come back regularly at weekends or was it just…?

EC: I probably did really, to begin with I probably came back most weekends [slight pause], but then as time went on, you know, you sort of met more people and got involved in more things so you probably stayed away a bit, but I still was a regular visitor to home. Probably was a bit of a home bird, although I really, I think it was more you felt you had to, there’d be things on in the farming calendar that you had to come home and help with, so I think you felt more, sort of influenced that you maybe needed to be there and help, so. That was probably why I came home.

HY: And the last sort of question I had was back to the school again. So obviously you say it closed the year after you went to secondary school.

EC: That’s correct.

HY: Do you remember the whole kind of, kind of it closing and what people felt about it? [Slight pause] I mean, I know as a young, younger sort of child it’s difficult to gauge what adults are thinking, but [EC: I know] in terms of the feeling for the community.

EC: Yes, it obviously was a very difficult time and very sad, but it’s difficult to remember it. There was four children left, going to be left, even three, four or three or four ‘cause my other cousin, he

 

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went to high school as it closed and then the three that were left had to go to Killin Primary, which was difficult for them too, a big transition, they would be about Primary [slight pause] Four, maybe Primary Three or Primary Four, maybe Primary Four and younger, two were probably in Primary Four and one was younger, but, so it was, it was very difficult. Yes, it’s a big blow for the community, ‘cause as I said, the, the school, I think, was a central point and while it was open, you know, everything was really involved round it, with, with community get-togethers, although after that we had a community association which, which really tried to keep it, keep it all going, but, and it still has to this day which, you know, it’s twenty-seven, eight, twenty-six years since the school closed, so, so I mean it…

HY: That’s quite a long time.

EC: Yeah, it is [40:00], it’s done well. Yes, I think everybody found it very difficult, but the, it had happened because there wasn’t, at that point in time, there wasn’t the children there to sustain it.

HY: And you were saying even the, the teacher who came in was coming from Killin [EC: Yes] so it had changed therefore…

EC: It had, they decided not to make it a live-in position, obviously they had brought somebody in that was a teacher from Killin, and [slight pause] at that time there wasn’t any sort of children coming up to the age, I mean, since then, you know, it just comes in waves, you know, there’s been probably times when there’s been, could have filled the school and then there’s other times where…and I think it’s the same in all these small communities and it’s happened all over Scotland. Thousands of small schools since then have shut and, and they would never re-open, the cost would be so high it wouldn’t, it would never ever happen, but, yeah, definitely a big blow to the community, yes.

HY: And do you remember, when you were still at the school, was it talked about then? Like, so before it happened was there kind of murmurings of it over the years that you were aware…you know, like, a sense of, “Oh, if we become small.”

EC: It’s funny, I don’t really remember Helen [laughs]

HY: No, that’s fine,

WC: It’s very, very hard, I know.

HY: …that in itself is telling, so it’s...

EC: Yeah, I don’t think there could have really been, well, there obviously was the talk of it happening, and I think it, there must be a sort of cut-off threshold where the, it’s not viable to have them open after, I think obviously three or four must be the…mind you, you hear of a lot of schools that, in the Island communities that have one and two so I’m not sure. I don’t really remember it being talked about a great deal, to be honest. But [slight pause] it was very difficult, I mean there, there was a lot of people came and went, you know, just even people that would come for a few years would be in the village ‘n’, and the children would come to school, and then swell the numbers and then they would be reduced again. So it’s just unfortunate at that time there was just sort of, three sort of local children that had been there all the time and there was no more sort of coming in [slight pause], but, which was a shame.

HY: And with the Community Association, ‘cause you maybe know about the other communities around here as well, I mean, is it quite, for the size of the settlement, is it quite unusual to have that, kind of active...?

 

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EC: It probably is, yes, ‘cause there’s not many around that I know that have the same sort of thing. Probably in Acharn, I actually don’t really know if they have a [slight pause] sort of community association like that. I know on the other side of the loch, I don’t know of any of the villages that have anything like that at all, so for such a small community, yes, I would say…

HY: Although you, remember you saying that Ardeonaig was quite famed for its community events?

EC: Yes.

HY: Do you think that maybe had something to do with it, that sense of, you know, that’s the identity of the place, of having these [EC: Yeah] things that people came to?

EC: Probably, definitely, you know it’s, we’ve always had a calendar of events, you know, they always have a sort of summer, winter thing where they hold things and still do it yet, that people come to, and it’s, it would be sad to see it not still con..you know, continue ‘cause I think it’s, it is good for people to, to have it and be, be able to get together, although a lot of the people do see each other, there’s some people that don’t see each other from event to event so, so it’s good, and I don’t know of a great deal of other places that do the same thing. So, no, I think it’s very important that that kind of community thing is kept, kept going, and kept together just to keep everybody meeting each other and talking.

HY: And obviously there are some people who even live here and don’t get involved in any of that. Do you think that kind of, do you think they are a little bit adrift because of it, or not, it doesn’t make a difference, depending how they relate?

EC: It’s very hard, people have sort of different ideas and different reasons with what they want to do, some people just maybe don’t want to be involved, are not sort of into that sort of thing, or they like to just keep their lives to themselves, maybe that’s why people come to live in a, a quiet community. I, I presume most people do come to these sort of communities ‘cause they want to be involved and meet more people and have a, a more social lifestyle of just every day, but some people maybe just want a sort of quieter existence. But I think, I think it is important that people do get involved to a certain extent and keep the thing, keep the thing going.

HY: That’s great, I think that’s probably a good place to leave it, thank you very much.

[Recording ends]

 

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Appendix 3: Oral history transcripts

3.3 Donald Hancock

Name of interviewee: Donald Ian Hancock (DH)

Gender: Male

Date of birth: 20th December, 1954

Place of birth: Olympia, Washington, USA

Date of interview: Thursday 26th January, 2012

Name of interviewer: Helen Louise Young (HY)

Audio length: 1 hour 8 minutes 11 seconds. Five minute time markers are given in [ ].

HY: So, if you just confirm your full name, date of birth and place of birth for me.

DH: Full name Donald Ian Hancock, date of birth 20/12/54, place of birth Olympia, Washington, USA.

HY: So how long have you lived along the lochside?

DH: I moved here in 1971, lived in Killin before that, moved to Killin in 1967 but been down here since seventy-one. Been in this house since 1984.

HY: Okay, so what brought you to the area then?

DH: Well my mother and father wanted to move here, and I was too young to argue about it, so simple as that.

HY: So what brought your parents here then?

DH: They, they moved back from the States in 1963, originally we lived in Cornwall, but my mother’s Scottish and she just had a hankering to come home, so they saw a hotel for sale in Killin and came up and bought it, so. But they soon got disillusioned with the hotel business, yeah that was nineteen, yes they bought the hotel in sixty-seven and sold it in seventy-one.

HY: Okay, but loved the area enough that they wanted to stay?

DH: Oh yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah. They built the house down there where Professor Nicol lives now. It, although it doesn’t look anything like it now, it’s basically the same sort of house as this but he’s completely recovered it so you wouldn’t know it’s a log cabin.

HY: So, he bought the land did he then, your dad?

DH: Yes.

HY: To then be able to…

 

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DH: Well, originally he bought the west side of the burn and built his house. He then bought the east side of the burn, actually ‘cause my aunt showed an interest in it, she changed her mind so I bought this piece of ground off him and, actually I was still at school when I did that, I paid for it selling firewood at the weekend, but anyway [laughs]. And, well I said, built the house here in eighty-four.

HY: So what did your dad do? Was it right that he did the school transport at one stage?

DH: He did, yes, it was a kind of semi-retirement job. Well he kind of fell into it, it was the late Mr Willock that stays…Michael, have you met Michael Willock, stays at the top of the? [Croft Valley]. Well it was his father that did the run, well he took me back and forth to school, and when he retired he just asked my dad if he wanted to take it on, so yeah as I say he kinda fell into it.

HY: Yeah, that’s the way to do it, isn’t it.

DH: It wasn’t a big earner but, I mean, it basically gave my father a car for nothing, you know, it paid the year’s running on the car kind of thing, so.

HY: So what age would you have been when you came here, you say you went to school, where did you go to school at that stage?

DH: Well, when I first came to Killin, I went to Killin School which at that time was a secondary school.

HY: Oh, of course, yeah.

DH: And it shut – when did they shut that? – about seventy-one, and I actually started going to Aberfeldy from Killin.

HY: Oh right.

DH: Used to take a bus down…

HY: So you didn’t go to McLaren, no?

DH: No, no. I, I …

HY: That’s interesting.

DH: It would, by sheer chance when the secondary part of Killin School shut, McLaren couldn’t take that number of pupils in one year [HY: Oh I see], so some of us got shifted to Aberfeldy which for me worked out for the better ‘cause it was just after that I moved down here and Aberfeldy became my automatic school, so it actually saved me another shift. Yeah, there was a, yes, a slight change of transport, the bus we used to go to school in was an absolute antique and it used to leave Killin at twenty past seven to get to Aberfeldy for nine o’clock.

HY: Oh goodness [DH: So…], did it make lots of stops on the way or did it just travel really slowly?

DH: [Laughs] It was pretty much permanently stopped, yeah it was, yes we did make a lot of stops. There was several pick-ups on the lochside as far as Fearnan, and then at Fearnan we used to cut off and go round through Fortingall, [HY: Oh right], Weem…

HY: Right round the back.

DH: Yeah, Kenmore had its own bus, which once I moved down here and started getting a school car from here to Acharn [HY: Right], I then went on the Kenmore bus.

 

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HY: Oh, I see, so that went from Acharn did it?

DH: Yep,

HY: So you got, were you the only one going from here?

DH: Oh no, there was [slight pause] well, there was Joan and Janet, but they, they actually stayed in the hostel so they were only Mondays and Fridays, but there was two girls from the Ardeonaig Hotel [HY: Okay], their [5:00] parents owned the hotel at that time. There was some of the McDonalds from Brae Farm, no Taylors, they were too young – who else was there? – there was Deirdre Browne from Ardtalnaig. Again the MacNaughtons were too young for my time, ah the, well yes, there was one, Alastair MacNaughton, his father was the gamekeeper at Claggan at the time, so no, there was quite a few, there was two cars ran daily on this side [HY: Right]. Long time ago.

HY: So at that time, although you didn’t go, the primary school was still open here?

DH: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes my father had actually quite a unique school round ‘cause he carried kids in both directions [HY: Okay], he took…

HY: Yeah, he took them down and then brought some…

DH: Yeah, turned round, well he had to sit in Acharn for about twenty minutes and then he brought the primary kids back, so. Yeah, he was loaded in both directions.

HY: So it’s interesting you lived in Killin and then came here. If you can remember back, what was your impression of, or your feelings about maybe moving along the lochside? Did it seem different to Killin, at the time?

DH: Well, I loved it ‘cause I love being out in the middle of nowhere actually, says something for my character. [Slight pause] Yeah, it didn’t bother me ‘cause it, well I say I love it out here. Obviously it’s a lot quieter and, you know, you’re not, shopping is an expedition, although there, actually there was still – I’m trying to think – when we first came down here, there was actually still a mobile shop came down this side.

HY: Was that a kind of grocery one?

DH: Yeah, it was McKercher and MacNaughton’s in Aberfeldy.

HY: Oh yeah, heard of them, yeah, uh huh.

DH: I think all the Killin ones had ceased by then, don’t know about the butcher, no I think it had ceased as well.

HY: Okay, so the Aberfeldy one was the last to go then was it?

DH: As far as I know, and that, that was just shortly after that, that was early seventies, that was the last one. There was a butcher’s, not on this side of the loch, but there was a butcher’s one ran on the other side of the loch until fairly recently, I don’t know if it does now.

HY: Is that maybe the same one that goes to Killin, or was it…?

DH: Well, there used to be one from Aberfeldy [HY: Oh, okay], ran, but then the, when we first moved to Killin, the Killin Co-op had a grocery van and a butcher’s van [HY: Oh right]. ‘Cause they, when I first came to Killin the Co-op had three shops in Killin, there was a grocery shop, a drapery shop and a butcher’s [HY: Goodness]. But they were three separate, three separate shops, yeah.

 

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HY: So did it feel very different at the time then, compared to now?

DH: What here or Killin?

HY: Well Killin as well, like with all the shops and thing.

DH: Oh, quite a, quite a bit different. I mean, the village itself overall shape and size hasn’t changed, well there’s been a fairly major development at the top of the village certainly, you know, but the main street hasn’t changed an awful lot. But there was obviously a lot more shops, I mean there was a separate dairy, there was two fruit shops in Killin, the Co-op of course, there was, what is the Co-op now used to be D. & J. McEwan’s which was another grocery come [HY: Okay] ironmongers, yeah I say, there was a separate shoe shop, McLarens, that’s what was latterly Webster’s garden store.

HY: So, it was a dedicated shoe shop?

DH: Yeah, yeah. Yes, I always remember the sign, I thought, you know, not very original sign-writing, it said ‘McLarens Shoe Shop’, and then underneath it it said ‘Boots and Shoes’ [HY & DH laugh].

HY: Just in case you were confused.

DH: Just in case you hadn’t got it the first time, yeah.

HY: Oh, that’s funny. So how about the lochside then, has that changed much or less so?

DH: Not really, I mean, obviously there’s a few new houses, well my house of course, my father’s house, Benula, the one built along at Cambusurich Farm, but no, there’s not, not a big difference.

HY: Did you struggle with planning back then, or were the, the council not quite on it?

DH: Yes, it took me, I applied for planning permission in 1978, and I think it was about eighty-one, eighty-two I got it [10:00].

HY: Was that constantly going back to them saying…

DH: I submitted twenty-one sets of plans [HY: Twenty-one!], yep, well sorry, no, it, it, twenty-one revised plans, and every time I sent in a set of plans they found fault somewhere else, which was slightly annoying because it was a fault that was actually on the original set so they were obviously just, didn’t want me to build, and it wasn’t until I actually wrote to the then local Conservative MP – what was his name? – Richie, Alistair Richie, and he kind of took up the issue for me [HY: Okay], otherwise I don’t think I’d ever got it. I think it concerned, it concerned council policy at that time that I was simply wanting to develop something and sell it, and it wasn’t until I convinced them that I actually wanted to stay here and make my living here. I mean, one of the things [laughs], one of the things they commented on was they didn’t want to increase the traffic on the road, well I already lived on the road, and as I pointed out, I, wouldn’t make any difference.

HY: So were you living at your parents’ house then?

DH: I was living with my parents then, yeah. The Ardeonaig Hotel, well, no, the Ardeonaig Hotel existed but prob…well it was probably was as busy then as it is, well probably busier than it is now actually. The outdoor centre didn’t exist of course, which probably about doubles the traffic at certain times of year. Yeah, so they’d, they’d, obviously it’s a policy that’s changed now ‘cause they don’t seem to care what drives up and down the road.

 

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HY: And, and your, as far as you’re aware, your dad didn’t have issues though with building? It was, was it, ‘cause that was a little bit obviously before.

DH: Yeah, no he was, he was probably one of the last to get planning permission without too much hassle. The only thing, at that time the local laird in Killin, James McNab, was a bit concerned as to why my father had bought so much lochside [HY: Oh right], it was simply ‘cause my father had a boat and he wanted to own the bit of ground he kept his boat on. McNab seemed concerned that he was going to develop some sort of marina or something which strangely enough at that time McNab was actually trying to develop one in Killin, but it never, never came to anything, so I don’t know.

HY: A little bit of envy there probably [laughs].

DH: Well I think he was probably concerned about opposition or something, I don’t know, but it, yeah [slight pause].

HY: So was your dad quite into fishing or something then, you say he had a boat, or did he just like going out?

DH: No, he liked sailing more than anything. He did go fishing but it wasn’t his, no he did enjoy sailing. He kept a sailing boat there for several years but it got wrecked one stormy [HY: I can imagine] October evening, and he, the boat wasn’t written off but it did get damaged and he never bothered fixing it, so that was the end of the sailing career.

HY: So did you go out at all? Were you caught by the bug or not?

DH: [Slight pause] Not many times, I seemed to get involved in other things. I do know how to sail ‘cause I learned how to sail when I lived down in, before I moved here I lived in Falmouth in Cornwall [HY: Oh right, yeah], and everybody can sail in Falmouth, so, yeah. It’ll be probably something like forty years ago, the last time I actually made a boat move by sail, but I think it’s a bit like riding a bike, I think if I figured it out for a minute or two I’d manage to make it move.

HY: So in terms of the community here, I mean obviously now there are community events and things, do you remember it being similar then, or was it, was there less going on or more going on?

DH: The community, it’s, well, there’s always been a Ardeonaig Community Hall, I didn’t really take anything to do with it to be honest. When I was at school the thought just never occurred to me, and once I started work at Lix Toll, I mean, the first two or three years I was at work we pretty much worked seven days a week, so. [Laughing] I always, when I started, I started work at Lix Toll in May, this would be May seventy-two, and I took my first day off in September, so [DH and HY laughs], yes, yeah.

HY: So was that an apprenticeship you, you got?

DH: Yeah, uh huh. Yep, I served my time at Lix Toll [15:00] and I went to the Trade School in Perth and got my City and Guilds in the same thing, I’m actually a Motor Vehicle Technician I think is the correct term. Although if I looked under the bonnet of a modern car it’s a complete mystery to me to be honest, it’s a…

HY: Yeah, it’s changed a lot hasn’t it.

DH: Quite a different trade.

HY: But, how long did you actually stay in that kind of line of work though? ‘Cause that’s not what you do now is it?

 

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DH: No, let me think, I started at Lix Toll in seventy-two, and I left there in seventy-eight, so I was six years at it. I, I still do mechanical things on agricultural equipment, but I don’t take anything to do with cars.

HY: And how did you develop that interest then? Was it just something you’d always wanted to do, or…?

DH: Yeah, I just, I just always liked mucking about with vehicles, I mean, actually when I worked at Lix Toll I spent quite a bit of my time actually on commercial vehicles, and any welding work that came in I tended to get that, so, which kind of got me in the steel fabrication part of it. But I served my time with Ian Noble [HY: Oh okay], he was my journeyman. But I used to much about with Ian at the weekends a lot, sorting old tractors and whatnot when I was still at school, so I was kind of half time served before I left school. [Noise from front door] This is Ian [his son] is it, yep.

HY: Yeah. So did you end up doing work for people who lived locally?

DH: Well yeah, I’d, I’ve always done a bit of work on the side, helping people on farms and whatnot, and I used to do a lot of work for Judy Bowser, recently deceased, and when she, she took over some of the farms that she’d previously let out, and there was a lot of work to be done, fencing, building work and whatnot, and the manager who was there then said, “Look”, he said, “there’s a lot of work here you can have”, but he said, “it would be too much to do at the weekends, you’d need to go full time.” So when I, and I’d always had a notion to start up on my own, so when I did, I actually started up with about a year’s work [HY: Wow, that’s the way to do it, yeah] on the books, you know. And one way or another I’ve always had work since, not always had the inclination to do it [HY laughs], but the work’s always been there, so.

HY: And is it right that you helped, or did demolish the Ardtalnaig Lodge, the old…?

DH: Yes, even got reported to the fire brigade as I took it down by the rapid method.

HY: [Laughing] Was that burning it?

DH: Yeah, I took off what I thought was worth salvaging and just torched the lot. In fact, the collection of sheds down at, well what is now my neighbour’s place, one of the sheds is actually built out of timber and tin salvaged from that house. Gee, when was that? I’m trying to thing when that was [slight pause]. I was actually working at Lix Toll, I did it as a job on the side, yeah ‘cause, yes I was working so that would be nineteen, oh I don’t know, seventy-three maybe, seventy-four, something like that.

HY: And had that lodge been sort of derelict?

DH: Had been for several years, yeah. It wasn’t [slight pause], I mean nowadays it would be considered substandard but at the time it wouldn’t have taken an awful lot to make it habitable [HY: Right], by standards of then anyway. I always regret… on the gable end of the house was a little cast lead sign which was the manufacturer’s, and it was the London Iron Church and Chapel Company [HY: Oh, goodness]. Apparently, it was a company, well, the, the Earl of Breadalbane apparently was one of the shareholders in it [HY: Oh, I see], and it was a company that specialised in pre…prefabricating churches and chapels, probably for the Australian market. And I always regret that I didn’t keep this little sign. [Recording paused]

HY: So you mentioned before the Ardeonaig kind of community, did you, ‘cause it’s interesting now there’s a link between Ardeonaig and Ardtalnaig, were you always kind of aware a link, or did it feel, did Ardtalnaig feel a little bit separate?

 

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DH: No, certainly in, in my time it would all, they would have considered themselves as the same community. I’ve never known, well, [20:00] probably when Ardtalnaig School was still on the go it would have considered itself as a separate community, but I don’t know when it shut, but…

HY: I think just before the Second World War.

DH: Yeah, I think that would [cat meows] pretty much have amalgamated the two.

HY: In terms of the school children coming up I suppose.

DH: Yeah [pause].

HY: And did, did your children go to Killin, then, by the time they were born?

DH: Yes, yeah my two went to Killin.

HY: And then onto McLaren.

DH: Onto McLaren, yeah, which was automatic then. I [slight pause], I think we could have sent them to Aberfeldy had we wanted to, but we thought well being as they, ah, well we could have sent them to Aberfeldy Secondary, but we thought well seeing as they’d grown up with the kids in Killin they’d be better to continue their education with them, so.

HY: Was there already a bus going to McLaren as well from here, were there other children going to high school there?

DH: Yes there was, yeah, yeah [slight pause], yeah there’s, there’s been a school car here forever. Well it was Alda Noble took them up, down to school.

HY: And do you remember when the council, you know when the boundary came in?

DH: Yes.

HY: Did that make any difference, or is it, is it merely just a line on the map?

DH: Well I would have said that the road maintenance certainly went down the hill from them because Stirling, I think Stirling assumed that the end of the world was at Callander, we lived in the bit of the map that says ‘there be monsters’. Well several things happened at the same time, we went into what was then called Central Region, and they basically didn’t know we existed, I mean, for the first year we were, that happened, there was yellow vans kept appearing every day and I think it was people actually coming to see what they had fallen into up here. There was literally people in Stirling didn’t know we existed [HY: Oh right]. And, the other thing that happened at the same time was they started to centralise things like road maintenance, I mean, when I first came down here, this road had its own roadman for instance [HY: Right], well there was two, there was one did each end of the loch. But, centralisation got rid of that and, of course, health and safety ‘cause they wouldn’t expect one man to work on his own out on the road now because in those days, I mean, he did it with no road signs, no cones, no nothing you know. Well that just wouldn’t be allowed now, so. I mean, Killin when I, when we first moved here Killin had its own city dump for instance, now of course it gets taken forty odd miles away nearly, you know, just things like that. I can only say that proportionately I would think our council tax is the highest it’s ever been and we’re getting the least service back from it. I mean, the state of the local amenities now is atrocious, well, this road particularly.

 

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HY: And would you consider yourself a lochsider? Although obviously you call yourself an American [laughs].

DH: Well, yeah, I mean, I’m, I’m American by virtue of the fact that I happened to be born there and it’s, well actually I still travel on an American passport because I can actually get an American one cheaper and quicker than I can get a British one, but, no, I would consider myself a lochsider, yeah. I’ve no intentions of moving anywhere as long as economics allow me to stay here, so [phone rings, recording paused]. 23:52 I live on the lochside so yes I’m a lochsider, and I’ve, well at fifty-seven years old I have actually lived in this house longer than I have lived anywhere, so, although I have lived in another [slight pause], this is my seventh house, but I’ve lived in this one more than any other house, so. Yes, yes, I would consider myself a lochsider.

HY: And do you think that that’s something that, like, takes a long time to kinda feel that way about here?

DH: No, quite the opposite [HY: Okay], I think, I mean I’m too young to remember it, but when my mother, we, well I say,58 we lived in Cornwall for about four years, five years before we came up here, and my mother and father felt as big a strangers after five years as what they did the day they moved in down there, whereas here I think you could integrate yourself here very quickly. Well [laughs], you could integrate [25:00] or alienate yourself very quickly here, you know [DH and HY laugh]. Yeah, no, I, no, I think you could feel at home here very quickly.

HY: Do you think to integrate though you need to make quite a big effort, or is it sort of, you could just come and live, and, as long…is it to do with contributing to the kind of things locally? I mean, obviously you in your work, work with people.

DH: Well yes, and of course I went to school here, which helps, but no I don’t think, I don’t think you’d have to work too hard at it to be honest to integrate yourself. I mean, you could probably alienate yourself quicker, I would think. But, no, it’s…I mean people round here are pretty easy going, you know, fairly laid back.

HY: So have you seen a fair number of people come and go over the years though?

DH: [Pause] Well, yes, if you include the Ardeonaig Hotel in that equation, yes [slight pause]. There’s a couple of grey areas there, but basically the people there now are the eleventh owners since I’ve lived here [HY: Quite a lot isn’t it].That’s if you include banks and, you know, but yes there’s eleven owners [slight pause]. In fact, I did work it out statistically that there’s a sixty-two and a half per cent chance that the present owners will go bankrupt in four point one years owing me money [HY and DH laugh], so.

HY: What’s that based on then, that calculation?

DH: Well, I’ve just…

HY: [Laughing] Previous experience?

DH: Yeah, previous experience, yes, yeah, I’ve had my fingers burnt there on more than one occasion, not seriously I have to say, not really, I can’t complain, but it’s a…the problem is with hotels round here of course, people are paying far too much for the fabric of the building, and they just end up, it’s not that they’re running an inefficient business, it’s just the bank swallows them up basically.

HY: Do you remember a time where the local used the Ardeonaig Hotel?

 

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DH: Oh yeah, absolutely. Not any, not something I ever did to any great degree because I, to be honest, I’m not really a drinker, but oh yeah, it was our local, you know. The last owner [slight pause], and, well the last two owners actually, and I’ve, I have a feeling this latest owner’s going the same way, don’t really encourage locals. So, yes, it is changing [slight pause], I don’t know why that is, whether they just find that the bar trade is probably costing them more to staff than what they make out of it in booze. But it is changing [pause]. I mean, previously owners have actually encouraged local trade because they found a lot a tourists like to speak to some country bumpkins, you know. That was all part of the, all part of the sales patter kinda thing.

HY: And do you remember when the outdoor centre was sort of opened then?

DH: Oh yeah, in fact the…I can’t remember [slight pause], was Phil [Simpson] the original boss?

HY: Of the Abernethy Trust, yeah, but the previous owner had run summer camps for disadvantaged children, apparently.

DH: The first person I remember there who would be, I suppose actually in Graeme’s [Young] position, was a chap called Taff Balls [HY: Oh right], Taff Balls and what was his wife’s name? [Pause] They stayed in West Brae cottage, Taff Balls and Karen, Karen Balls. But I can’t remember when Phil first came, yeah, when, when Taff Balls was there, like I say, he would be kind of an equivalent of Graeme’s position, I can’t remember who his boss was.

HY: Was that Abernethy though?

DH: Yeah, oh yeah.

HY: It would have been Phil [Simpson] then.

DH: Yeah, the owner previous to that was a Mr Barratt. [Pause] What was the name of the owner before him? [pause]

HY: There was a Stevenson.

DH: Oh that, [30:00] that’s was back was it was still the estate, Telford [HY: Oh, yeah], Telford, that’s right, Telford. I just vaguely remember him.

HY: Was it, was that a big change then, it becoming an outdoor centre? Or, in the early years was it not really a discernible difference?

DH: No, I mean, other than a slight increase in the traffic load, no I don’t think many locals found it much different.

HY: Did they find it a bit odd, having it on their doorstep, was it something new?

DH: Not as I remember it. I don’t find, no not particularly, I’m sure John and Helen [Taylor] did but then, I don’t think you – I better watch what you’re taping here – but, yes, I don’t think they ever found it too popular.

HY: I suppose, their land’s right next to it and things, so it’s…

DH: [Pause] I remember, I remember Taff getting on to my father for the vehicle he was using to do the school run, and he said, “Oh, it’s time the Council supplied you with a new vehicle, this is ridiculous.” My father said, “Well this isn’t the Council’s vehicle, it’s my own, I’m a private contractor”, you know, which seemed to bemuse him. [Pause] Yes, ‘cause when,yeah he was the first

 

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Taff, well there’s been so many actually [pause]. Who came after Taff? [Pause] Somebody Stevens, Stevens something.

HY: And how did you get to know them then, in terms of, was it just merely, where did you meet? I mean, it’s…

DH: Probably working there, actually just, I mean I’ve done jobs at the Centre more or less since it opened, in fact I used to do the odd job for Mr Barratt so, yeah, we just kinda crossed paths. Because I’m not one for going to the pub, and because I only, don’t attend that many things in the Community Hall, we didn’t tend to meet socially but I did, I mean, well I say I’ve done, oh I don’t know how many hundreds of jobs up there over the years. I probably do less now of course because the, the maintenance staff do more in-house, yeah. So not only is Ian [his son] working up there but he’s taking work off me [laughs]. Yeah, I’ll let him off [pause]. I’m trying to remember, when did the…? ‘Cause of course Mr Barratt, as he bequeathed that place, about the same time, of course, he got involved with Croft-na-Caber [HY: Oh right]. Well, he was the owner of it, he owned Croft-na-Caber at one point, in fact his, his, think it’d be his eldest daughter was actually the manageress there. I don’t know if he was originally the sole owner or, I don’t know what, quite what the tie-up was there, but Croft-na-Caber was basically his. I don’t know if it was him and several others or just him.

HY: So was it a bit before your time when, kind of, people began obviously buying up their farms and things? ‘Cause I was surprised at how late on that was, that people actually became, so the Taylors and different people bought the land and the farms.

DH: Yeah, because when [slight pause], in fact that’s basically how [slight pause] my father managed to buy this place was that, Jimmy Anderson, Joan’s [MacKenzie] father, he was originally a tenant on Tullochan, and Tullochan was owned by Brae Estate. When the estate broke up and the Taylors bought over their part, Jimmy Anderson bought his part, and I think he was quite happy to sell off a few bits here and there just for some ready cash, so. That’s [slight pause] now when, now that would be – when did he buy Tullochan? – I mean, he’d been a tenant on it for donkey’s years but, I mean Joan would have been born and bred in the place, but [slight pause] I think he actually would’ve taken over ownership of it about, maybe, I don’t know, sixty-five, sixty-six, something like that. ‘Course originally, [35:00] I mean, pretty much the whole of Scotland was tenanted, I mean there was very few land…I mean, originally pretty much everything here would have been owned by the Breadalbane Estate. [Pause] I think, now it would be Joan’s great aunt and uncle that had Cambusurich Farm originally, it’s been in Anderson hands for a long, long time. But, no, Tullochan would have only been about nineteen, I think it would be about sixty-six, something like, sixty-five, sixty-six, and that would be about then that the Taylors bought over Dall and Brae Farm, which of course originally was operated as one farm. Taylor Brothers.

HY: And do you think the buying up, or becoming owner-occupiers I suppose made a big difference or not, in terms of the way people felt about it? I mean, people tenanted for a long time.

DH: [Pause] Well, I think it would have been more or less a, I mean, it wasn’t a case of thinking about it, I think it would be more or less a case of necessity because, you know, as various estates have broken up, if the tenants hadn’t actually taken over the ownership they’d have probably eventually been, well the place would have been bought out by some non-farming entity and they would have probably eventually have been ousted out of it. Though I think in a lot of cases, although farmers have a right of tenancy, you can’t quite kick ‘em off, I think their position would eventually have been untenable. So I think it would be a case of do or die, you know. [Pause] In fact, they’ll hardly be a [slight pause], I don’t think they’ll actually be a tenanted farm on the lochside now. Well I

 

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suppose technically Mervyn Browne’s is tenanted by Mervyn [HY: Yep]. He sold it and rented it back. [Pause] See that happened with a lot of the crofts, with [slight pause] with the likes of the Forestry Commission. When the Forestry Commission bought over a lot of places and basically planted them of course, some of the smaller parts of the croft, they would just let their, some of their workers tenant them and run them as a croft. Eventually, most of them managed to buy ‘em, basically for a knock-down price because, well I think the Forestry Commission just wanted to get the maintenance off their hands and, as they were sitting tenants they couldn’t really kick ‘em out, which would diminish the price, so I think they would just want to offload them basically. [Pause]

HY: Did they still have, kind of, more sort of like sporting events happening here when you were younger? ‘Cause…

DH: No, I mean, other than…

HY: That all kind of disappeared…?

DH: Yeah, no, I mean, there, there would have been the school sports day, and that would have been it. There was no [slight pause], well, I mean, obviously…well, when you say sporting events do you mean like shooting and whatnot, or?

HY: Yeah, sorry.

DH: Yeah, oh yeah, there would be, in fact, yeah there was probably more of it then actually. I mean, that used to be quite a nice little weekend earner when you were a school kid, was going to the pheasant beats and grouse beats, well that’s all a thing of the past.

HY: So you used to do that did you, beating?

DH: Oh yeah, yeah. [Slight pause] Yes, you get, well, grouse beats you generally got paid a little bit more, like another 5 shillings a day or whatever, but of course you had, well (a) you generally did more walking, and of course you were up on the hills. Pheasant beats which tended to be at lower level, they usually got about 5 shillings less, but you usually got your dinner supplied as well, depending what estate you were on, and a free bottle of beer. Yes, that was probably…

HY: So did you do it on the Ard…was it called the Ardeonaig Estate, or the?

DH: No, I didn’t, didn’t ac…no, ‘cause there was, that had pretty much ceased here by my time, but I used to do it at Kinnell Estate in Killn [HY: Okay]. Actually, I used to get one of the more pleasurable jobs which was driving the half-track round the hill collecting all the birds, that was quite a nice little number, for a school kid. [Slight pause] But that, all that pretty much died off round here kinda early seventies [HY: Right].

HY: Why do you think that was then? Just the changing…

DH: Lack of birds, well basically there’s just a lack of birds really. No, there’s plenty of people would pay to go and shoot them but there was nothing to shoot, so. See nearly anyone who does that now professionally are, everything’s artificially stocked [HY: Oh, right], which is why you have incredibly stupid pheasants that pretty much commit suicide, particularly on the roads [40:00]. In fact you can always tell when the pheasants are released ‘cause when you drive like say Aberfeldy, Grandtully, down there there’s just dead pheasants everywhere, well that’s because they’ve just been released and they’re absolutely brain-dead. Got no, no common sense whatsoever.

HY: But they must, they didn’t stock earlier on in the century though did they, would it…

 

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DH: No, no, there would have just been the, the…no numbers have just diminished, I, I don’t know whether it’s due to weather patterns, feeding patterns, they’re just getting short out, but no, they have definitely decreased. A lot of people maintain grouse decreased because of sheep dip [oh right], sheep dip in the hills obviously rubbed off on the heather, and grouse eat heather buds, and that actually, I mean I’ve heard several theories but a lot of people say [HY: Something must have happened though mustn’t it], a lot of people say the sheep dip actually put down the, the grouse numbers. They’ll be people better qualified to answer that than me I would think, but…But no, that, that was quite a good event actually in the, in the autumn through to Christmas, grouse beats and pheasant beats, used to quite enjoy them.

HY: And do you remember the, I was, I was talking to somebody who said about the, the start of the salmon fishing in, normally January isn’t it? And they used to do a big thing…

DH Yeah, 15th January, yeah.

HY: …at the hotel.

DH: Yeah, that, that was always a big event, but again, well, I mean, obviously the Ardeonaig Hotel’s kind of dying a death at the moment, but I mean they still make a big deal of it down at Kenmore and whatnot, you have the local minister blessing the boats and things like that, but again there’s just nowhere near the salmon there used to be. Now Mister, the, the late Mr Willock who used to do the school run, that’s who took me to school, he was the last gamekeeper at Brae, Brae Estate [HY: Okay], and he said he can remember that [slight pause as he looks out the window] - oh it’s a plane, I was wondering what was flashing up in the sky there - he can remember, literally the boats had to queue in line to go out on the loch, you know, and you were, it wasn’t were you going to get a salmon on the first day, it was how many, whereas now, I mean, people can come up here and go on a two week fishing holiday and never see a fish, which has to be getting pretty close to being illegal to sell a fishing holiday with no fish, you know. [Slight pause] No, it, it’s just something else that’s died a death, I, again a lot of people have a lot of theories, some people say it’s never been as good since the Hydro Board started affecting the river back in the fifties, and things like that, but I, I think it’s just something that’s just naturally gone down. [Slight pause] There still seems to be plenty of fish, I mean a lot of people still find fishing quite successful in the river, you know, down Grandtully direction and whatnot, but up here it’s died a death I would say.

HY: So do the tourists come because of that, or would you say that tourism…

DH: Well, I mean, again back in the seventies I can remember people, I mean, it was a big deal at the Ardeonaig Hotel to come on a salmon fishing holiday, you know, but people, as I say, it wasn’t unusual for somebody to fish here for two weeks and not see a fish. Now, when you listen to various local old salts talking about the salmon fishing and they’d say, oh, somebody’s good at it and somebody’s not good at it, blah, blah, blah, as far as I could see, the reality, the reality was that they all fished by pretty much the same method, and the people that caught the most fish simply put the most numbers in, the most hours in, you know. [Pause] My father used to fish, well he had a deal with the Ardeonaig Hotel, he would fish on one of their fishing rights, if there was one available, and he just gave every second fish to the hotel, and, I mean, he would catch [slight pause] maybe three or four in a year. Now, where we lived on the west coast of the United States, you would expect to go out and catch three or four in an afternoon, I mean up in the northwest of the States, if you’re there at the right time, the rivers are just choked with salmon, quite different. Somewhere I have a picture, or my mother’ll have it, of my father standing in the Deschutes River, that’s up kinda Seattle direction in Washington State, and you see him standing in the river in a pair of waders and there’s literally a grey line about forty feet wide [45:00] going up the middle of the river, that’s just solid salmon. I

 

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mean, you could just shut your eyes and go like that with the rod and hit salmon, you know [laughs], yeah.

HY: Very different.

DH: I doubt whether it’s like that there now to be honest, I mean, I’m going back fifty years ago. [Pause] ‘Cause that’s where all your tinned salmon, John West and whatnot, that all comes from the west coast of the States. [Pause]

HY: And do you remember, I think it was the 1970s, there was the plane crash?

DH: Yes, yeah that’s right, yeah, that was Mary Sandeman’s brother [slight pause], yeah, I’m trying to remember now [pause] I think I, yes, ‘cause I would still be work…’cause it was Lix Toll that recovered the plane, I was still working there then.

HY: So was it actually trying to land there then, was it a seaplane?

DH: No [HY: It wasn’t?] no, to be honest it was rather silly [HY: Right], it was a stupid tragedy by somebody that probably a bit inexperienced. He landed in the field [HY: Oh right] at Dall which was very wet, and he was trying to take off, now he was taking off of a very wet field that was actually barely long enough in good conditions, and it simply was he came to, you know the field down there is basically flat, then it drops about six or eight feet and then you’re down to loch level. Basically, he came to the end of the field and he was at the point that you either had to take off or crash because there wasn’t enough room to stop, when he got to the end of the field he just wasn’t going fast enough to lift, and he came off the end and instead of going up he just coasted out a bit and into the loch. It’s unbelievable how, ‘course the water’s incredibly cold [HY: Yeah], it’s unbelievable how close they were to the shore [HY: Really], I mean they would, well you could’ve thrown a stone at it quite easily [HY: Right], I mean they’re probably only out, I don’t know, sixty feet, seventy feet something like that.

HY: Could they not get out the plane then, or…?

DH: No, they got out the plane, and one – how did this happen now? – I canno…’cause there was three of them in the plane, one [slight pause], two swam to shore, the third one, the, the plane nose-dived as they tend to do of course ‘cause they’re engine heavy at the front, and the tail was sticking out, the third one came out and was hanging onto the tail, and if they’d just hung on for another few minutes, ‘cause it was only about ten minutes and somebody’d come round from the hotel with a boat [HY: Yeah, sure]. But the, one of the ones on, it was Mary Sandeman’s brother on the shore, I think it was him if I get this right, he swam back out and tried to help the girl in, She made it back in, he didn’t, he got cramp and drowned, and I mean, literally you could have thrown a stone at him, he was just that close, but ‘course, I mean, it was early in the year, the water would be incredibly cold, I mean, he would be numb within seconds, you know. So yeah, I mean, the whole thing was rather a silly tragedy, (a) it was ill-advised that you landed there in the first place, I mean, basically he landed there to go to the hotel for lunch, the field, like I say, the conditions [slight pause], I’m sure a more experienced pilot would’ve probably weighed up the ground conditions and realised he just should’ve tried to take off, but I suppose having landed he probably felt obliged to take off, and (b) once they’d actually crashed, if everybody had just stayed put for another few minutes they’d have been rescued, it was, it was all, well it’s alright saying that in hindsight of course but it was all so unnecessary, ‘cause there was a boat there literally in seconds, well in minutes somebody’d come round from the hotel in a boat, but he’d drowned by then.

 

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HY: So did that kind of affect people quite a lot with it being right on their doorstep ‘n’ like you say, being such a tragedy. Do you remember?

DH: Well, probably not. I mean he wasn’t [slight pause], life goes on, you know. [Pause] I mean, certainly it was the main topic of conversation for several weeks, but well , I mean, life goes on. He wasn’t, although everybody knew Pat Sandeman, and of course Mary Sandeman, Pat being the old father – would you have ever met Pat? No, he would already, he probably died before you, how long’ve you been here?

HY: Three and a half years.

DH: Oh no, Pat would be dead by then. So I mean, everybody kinda knew him, but he would just barely have been considered local so, no, I don’t think it would have worried people overly much, one way or the other. Just one of these things.

HY: Did it kind of reaffirm feelings about the loch being a fairly dangerous place though, d’you think?

DH: Probably, but it wasn’t the loch that was dangerous, whichever way you look at it, it was their own stupidity that was dangerous, I mean that’s the reality of it, although people would probably disagree with me. [Slight pause] [50:00] Och, you hear so much bunkum about the loch being dangerous this, and undercurrents and blah, blah blah, I mean, to have undercurrents you need something to make the current flow, and the amount of water that goes in one end of this loch and out the other end just wouldn’t create the amount, just doesn’t make that much water move, you know. No the…

HY: Are those the stories that kind of, get kind of bandied around?

DH: Oh yeah, probably not so much now because there’s, I mean, many more people use the wa…loch for water-sports and [slight pause], I mean, I don’t think, I mean, when I first moved here I doubt whether there was anybody ever skied on the loch whereas now it happens all the time, you know. But locals, I mean I’m going back a generation or two, (a) generally didn’t like water, very few locals I think would know how to swim and just had a natural fear of water, and of course, as soon as you have a natural fear of something all kinds of bunkum starts to get invented about it. [Slight pause]

HY: Have you ever seen the, the glowing lights on the loch, you know when it’s supposed to produce certain bacteria or something?

DH: I’ve never seen it in the loch, I know, yeah, I mean, I have seen it in other places, but not here [HY: Right], I haven’t seen it in the loch.

HY: I’d think you’d be in prime position here [laughs]

DH: [Slight pause] No, I haven’t seen that, actually I’ve never heard of it, on the loch. I always think of it being more a salt water thing to be honest.

HY: It’s supposed to be to do with the fault that goes across, there’s a certain kind of bacteria in it that…

DH: Well, I haven’t heard that one.

HY: Maybe I’ve been told stories [laughs]

DH: So where’s this fault go across?

HY: Does it not cut across towards Fearnan.

 

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DH: Well yes, I suppose it’d be part of the Comrie, the Highland Fault Line. No, I haven’t heard that, that’s a new one on me.

HY: So you’ve never experienced any kind of earth shudders here then?

DH: Yes.

HY: You have.

DH: We had an earthquake just actually – when was that? – just a few months ago.

HY: Oh right, I must have missed that.

DH: Well actually, no, it was, I think it even made the news. Ian and I were sitting here and I heard a kinda rumble, and I actually, it sounded like somebody tipping stones out of a trailer or something, I heard this kind of rumble and we, I said, “Well, you know, somebody’s doing something”, but, I mean, it was, I’m sure, yeah, it was dark at the time. Never thought anything more about it, but it wasn’t till the next day we heard there had actually been an earthquake. And the previous earthquake, which was [slight pause], it’s a few years ago now [slight pause], three, four years ago, maybe more, the epicentre of it was actually up Glenlochay [HY: Oh right], and I was out in the workshop, and on the workshop wall vertically I’ve got some aluminium ladders hanging up, and they just went “Bbbbbrrrrr” [HY: Oh goodness], and I just thought it was somebody passing on the road or something, I never gave it another thought, I just remember the ladders kinda gave a “Bbrrr” rattle, but there’d actually been quite a big earthquake that afternoon. Well I say, it didn’t damage anything round here.

HY: It wasn’t the one where there was a big landslip or was that separate, Glen Lochay?

DH: No, well there was one in Glen Ogle, but that, that was just due to extreme rainfall. [Slight pause] No, in fact, you know, I can’t even remember what time of year that was, but yeah, the epicentre of it was about Tullich Farm up Glen Lochay, ‘cause they actually, their chimney fell off, off the farmhouse, but that was about as serious as it got. [Pause] So yes, I have actually experienced a couple of earthquakes if you could call it that. [Pause] No the last one, it was just, yeah, it was just before Christmas – was it December, November? – wasn’t that long ago anyway.

HY: I suppose that’s not many in, in your time here is it really.

DH: Not, not noticeably, I mean if you actually spoke to somebody from the geological survey they’d probably tell you there’s one every week, but that’s not, not enough to register, you know. [Slight pause] Well, the Highland Fault Line does move all the time so I suppose technically there’s a permanent earthquake, but not enough to register. [Pause]

HY: And I, one thing I forgot to ask you is, talking about transport and things, do you remember the post bus? Was that still going?

DH: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

HY: Did you make use of that at all?

DH: I didn’t personally, my mother did [HY: Okay], because when my father died – when did my father die? – about eighty-six – when did my father die? – eighty-six, eight-seven, and my mother continued to live in the house [55:00] down below for a few years, yeah, she used it all the time. Unfortunately, it wasn’t, wasn’t timed very well, because it - actually I’ve got a book on it here somewhere believe it or not [HY: Oh, that would be really interesting to see], I don’t know, it’s

 

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there somewhere, I’ll dig it out. [Pause] The timing of it, if you went to, if you just wanted to go to Killin, you barely got enough time in Killin [slight pause] - oh no, was it the other way round? No, you actually ended up with too much time in Killin, and if you took the bus right down to Callander and back you didn’t really get enough time in Callander. But my mother used to kinda use it at least in one direction. Was never a [slight pause], unfortunately there’s, I mean, there’s not many people on this side of the loch that don’t drive, or have access to somebody who does drive, so I mean it was never really a big, it was never a, a big success on this side of the loch, and, of course, because they were doing an afternoon run and they weren’t lifting any mail on the afternoon run, it, it did actually make a, a rather expensive luxury, you know [HY: Yeah]. Of course, eventually they did away with the afternoon run, and it ran for a year or two just for the morning run, well of course, a bus only running once a day isn’t much good for anything, you know. So that pretty much put the death nail in it – yeah, somewhere, somewhere in that lot I do have a book on it, I think. [Pause]

HY: Yeah, I suppose having a car was pre…pretty much a necessity wasn’t it t’, to do things if, if the shopping [DH: Yes] van stopped and.

DH: Yeah, I mean, it certainly, in my time here a car’s a necessity, and everybody has a car here, there’s very few people that don’t drive [pause]. [Yawning] Oh, excuse me. I’d imagine if you go back a few generations ago, of course, and people tended to be a bit more self-sufficient gardening wise and things like that, and of course, Ardeonaig did originally have its own Post Office, it wasn’t quite so important, and of course there was mobile shops.

HY: And where would you normally go to shop? Do you tend to go west…

DH: Well…

HY: …or east?

DH: I, obviously Killin’s closer. Real…me personally it just depends where I’m working, I do a lot of work in the Aberfeldy area and obviously I shop in Aberfeldy. I do a lot of work in the Callander area, which is where I’m working at the moment, I actually do very little in Killin, very, very little, there’s enough cowboys up there without me. But, yes, it really just depends on where I’m working, but if [slight pause], if I have to go to a major town, you know, clothes shopping or whatever, personally, I’m a Perth man [HY: Are you, okay], but that’s…I think that, I mean, actually Stirling is fractionally closer, I think that stems back from when I worked at Lix Toll because between the Trade School and delivering a lot of smashed vehicles to different garages in Perth, I tended to be in Perth a lot more often.

HY: Oh right, okay, so you got to know it much better.

DH: Yeah, yeah, I actually know my way round Perth fairly well [pause].

HY: It’s interesting that people do tend to have a preference, most people tend to.

DH: Yeah, well, when – funny you should say that – when [slight pause], when this, when they broke up the old councils and we went into Central Region, there was a public meeting held in the McLaren Hall, and basically they wanted people in Killin to decide whether they wanted to go into Stirling, or go into Tayside [HY: Right], and the kinda local laird there, James McNab of McNab, he always maintained that the smart thing would’ve been to have gone into Tayside because Tayside tended to be a little bit more country orientated, and I think it was purely a political thing that, because the local peasantry disliked Mr McNab because he was the local laird, they all said Stirling [HY: Really], and he always maintained it was the biggest mistake we’ll ever make and I would tend to agree with him. You realise that the condition of this road the minute you go over the boundary into Tayside,

 

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you can see the difference in the main…quality of the maintenance. But because Killin people tend, and [1:00:00] this makes no difference to a boundary, because Killin people tended to go to Stirling shopping, they thought they should go into Stirling, into Stirling District, or Central Region as it was called then. But I think McNab was probably right that it would be, would, as far as general maintenance was concerned it would’ve made more sense to stay in Tayside, and it also meant of course the loch wouldn’t have been cut in half.

HY: Yeah, that’s very interesting.

DH: Actually the loch isn’t cut in half, the whole of the loch is in Tayside [slight pause], but the, the whole of Loch Tay is in Tayside but the boundary goes does the burn at Ardeonaig to the loch’s edge and it goes along the left edge of the loch. So, at this point I stay in Central Region, but if I, or Stirling District as it’s called now, but if I throw a stone in the loch I’m throwing it into Tayside.

HY: So do people in Ardeonaig and along the lochside, kind of, have something to say about it, as far as you can remember? They must have gone to the meeting…

DH: Well, they, they would have been, I mean, certainly Ardeonaig would have been welcome to go to the local meeting in, my, I remember my father went to it [slight pause]. But yes, McNab always maintained that we should have gone into Tayside [pause].

HY: And the only other question I think I had for you was, you know you say you didn’t really do the community events and stuff, but in terms of socialising with neighbours and…did you do that? Would you go round to people’s houses or was it purely in the kind of…

DH: Well, to be honest…

HY: …the work kind of capacity that you met and talked ‘n’ got to know people?

DH: Yeah, I mean, I mean I worked with, I mean I served my time with Billy and Ian Noble, and, I mean, our haunt actually used to be Suie Lodge Hotel.

HY: Where’s that?

DH: That’s about half way between Killin and Crianlarich.

HY: Oh, okay.

DH: That was our Saturday night haunt, all full of yokels [HY laughs]. To be honest, socialising in houses [slight pause] a generation ago wasn’t really a particularly Scottish thing. I mean, men went to the pub and women stayed at home basically [pause]. Now, my mother who is Scottish but spent all her young life in the States, which is where the rest of my family was born, my brother and two sisters [slight pause], she hosted dinner parties all the time because that’s a very country American thing to do, and I mean it was a fairly countrified area we lived in in the States. Now my mother-in-law, Mrs Sinclair, I doubt whether she ever once had anyone in her house for dinner, with the exception of maybe if some… if relations came and stayed, but I mean it was, no, you just, that generation I would think in Killin, it would be a very rare thing to invite somebody for dinner.

HY: Unless it was sort of close family, or…?

DH: Well, yes, I mean if close family came to, well [laughs], no offence to my mother-in-law, bless her soul, but [slight pause], she would only have family because they more or less invited themselves, I mean they, they lived in other parts of the country and they’d suddenly announce they were coming to Killin for their holiday. But to be honest, it would be, if you did have that sort of family gathering it

 

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would probably be more normal to go to the Killin Hotel for dinner, or something like that, you know [HY: Oh right]. No, dining, social dining was quite rare, not now, I mean it’s a different, different now, much more common [slight pause], I mean Ian and I’ll probably have somebody for dinner here, well at least once a month, but no, a generation ago that would be very, very rare.

HY: So that’s the impression you had of people here as well then, that they didn’t tend to...?

DH: Oh yeah, I mean everybody was very sociable, and I mean if you were, you know, if you went somewhere to do a job you were always invited in for a cup of tea and a scone and – in fact, it’s time I made you a cup of coffee, I’m gasping for one – but [slight pause] socially in the evening it would be very rare for people to have dinner anywhere. As I say, when I think of my mother-in-law, I couldn’t ever imagine her ever having invited anyone for dinner. Now this is pure theory but [slight pause], I doubt whether Joan’s [MacKenzie] mum and dad, I mean I couldn’t imagine Peggy [Anderson] ever having invited anyone for dinner, whereas Joan would invite people to dinner quite often, it’s just, different generation.

HY: Yeah [slight pause], and before, your mum moved away obviously, but did she ever go to the Women’s Rural?

DH: Yes she did.

HY: ‘Cause that’s quite an interesting thing, ‘cause obviously that wasn’t set up until the seventies, but the women do seem to have embraced that quite a lot.

DH: Yes [slight pause], I don’t know how much of that’s just down to Margaret Taylor’s enthusiasm, but [laughs]. [Slight pause] Yeah, my mother did, she didn’t, she did go to it for a while, it wasn’t really her cup of tea to be honest. Elizabeth [ex-wife] went to it once or twice, but again it wasn’t really her cup of tea either. Well Elizabeth, she didn’t actually have that much spare time at night, she’d, between her job and kids [pause], but that, not that there was anything wrong with the Rural, that was just a personal preference on their point, you know [pause]. I mean, I’m quite anti-social that way actually, it’s very rarely I go to anything, it’s not, I’m just not that way inclined.

HY: Did you ever go on the kind of, the Community Association sort of annual outings? Well, before, the school ran them.

DH: Yes, yes…

HY: Was that a popular event?

DH: I’ve been to a lot of them, yeah.

HY: So what is it about those that kind of appeal, just because interesting places ‘n’…?

DH: I think there’s that, and also I, I, and of course the kids used to like going to ‘em [HY: Oh yeah]. I, I go to them with no particular expectation, and I just basically sit on the bus and switch off, and, no, no, seriously, and I quite enjoy it, but I don’t go with any [slight pause], wherever we’re going, whatever we’re going to see, whatever we’re going to do, I don’t go with any particular expectation of what’s going to happen, so I’m never disappointed [laughing], put it that way, you know.

HY: But it’s quite a get-together for people isn’t it.

DH: Oh yeah, yeah [slight pause], my favourite ones and ones that involve boats, if we’ve taken the ferry to Mull or something like that, I always enjoy that. I think it’s having lived in Falmouth for five

 

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years, I’ve always had a thing about boats [pause]. If I’m ever anywhere on holiday doing anything, if I can arrange something that involves a boat trip I’ll go on that.

HY: You need to get yourself a boat here then really don’t you.

DH: Well, d’you know it’s the stupidest thing, I own about three hundred yards of lochside down there and I never use it – three hundred yards? Well, maybe not quite, I’ll own about over two hundred, I’ve never actually measured it to be honest. Yeah, my father did, I mean, he had a boathouse down there and whatnot and he used to keep, but like I say, it got wrecked one winter and no [slight pause] he never…

HY: Maybe you’ll build one one day, that’ll be your next project, build a boat.

DH: Build a boat, hmm…there’s one going cheap in Fearnan if you want a big one. I don’t know if that steamer will ever get launched or not.

HY: Oh yeah [pause], it would be interesting. Great, well I think that’s really good, thank you very much.

[Recording ends]

 

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Appendix 3: Oral history transcripts

3.4 Joan MacKenzie

Name of interviewee: Joan MacKenzie (JM)

Gender: Female

Date of birth: 21st May 1954

Place of birth: Aberfeldy, Perthshire, Scotland

Date of interview: Friday 4th November, 2011

Name of interviewer: Helen Louise Young (HY)

Audio length: 1 hour 16 seconds. Five minute time markers are given in [ ].

HY: Right, okay, if you just confirm you full name, date of birth and place of birth for me.

JM: Joan [pronounced Joanne] MacKenzie, 21st May 1954, and I was born in Aberfeldy. [Maiden name is Anderson].

HY: Okay, so you were brought up along the lochside, is that right?

JM: Yeah, yeah.

HY: So what was it like growing up here?

JM: Very different from what it is now. I mean I lived at Tullochan all my life, apart from these six years in Killin after I got married, but I still travelled down to work on the farm every day. Passed my driving test so that I could do that, ‘cause I didn’t drive before we were married. And, it’s just, it is very different from what it was when I went to school, I went to the wee school.

HY: The one in Ardeonaig?

JM: Uh huh, yeah, yeah.

HY: So how many pupils were there when you went?

JM: I think the most would ever be would be twelve [HY: Right], but sometimes it was more like seven or eight, so.

HY: And where did you go after that, did you…

JM: I went to Aberfeldy…

HY: You went to Aberfeldy.

JM: …to Breadalbane.

HY: And did most people who went to Ardeonaig go there then?

JM: Yeah, uh huh.

 

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HY: Was that the kind of typical…?

JM: Yeah. We stayed in the hostel.

HY: Oh right, yeah. Was that Dùn Àlainn? Is that the name?

JM: No it was Craigthuill, the girls’ hostel was Craigthuill.

HY: Oh, I see.

JM: And it was, there was about forty, fifty girls in it.

HY: Wow, from all ar…kind of outwith the district coming in?

JM: Yeah, yeah, from Kinloch Rannoch, Amulree, places like that. There was a bus load came down from Kinloch Rannoch.

HY: Oh, goodness. So did you go sort’ve, go in on the Monday and not come back till the Friday.

JM: We went on the Monday morning, my dad used to take us to Killin to get the bus in Killin, and we got the bus in Killin about…oh, I think it was about half past seven in the morning.

HY: Oh my goodness [laughs].

JM: Yeah, went round the north side of the loch, right down to Fearnan picking up pupils all the way. Then up the hill to Fearnan and I remember the old bus went chug, chug, chugging up the hill, and it, in the winter time it was freezing cold [HY: Oh, I bet, yeah], absolutely freezing. Can actually remember one morning the bus driver getting out and lighting newspaper [HY: Really?] to demist, defrost the windscreen.

HY: Oh my goodness.

JM: So, and then we went right along by Fortingall, down to Weem and then stopped at the girls’ hostel, probably got there about a quarter to nine, put off all our cases and everything and then walked up to school. And it’s, you felt like as if you were hundreds of miles away. Aberfeldy was a big, big town. And going from the school down in Ardeonaig, which was tiny you know the size of the school.

HY: Bit of a culture shock for you was it?

JM: It was awful, it was really awful. Never having been away from home, and then getting…and after the first week, well the first weekend I cried my eyes out, I was not going back. I gave my mum such a terrible time. But, ever after, after that, she sent me back, of course she had to.

HY: I suppose she didn’t have a choice did she.

JM: No she didn’t. I didn’t see that at the time, but after that I didn’t mind it at all. Stayed for six years so I couldn’t have minded it too much [laughs]. But it just seemed like so far away from home, and yet now you go in twenty-five minutes quite easily.

HY: Yeah. So when did the McLaren kind of kick in for people round here then?

JM: When Ardeonaig, when the wee primary school closed there were only four pupils left, Donna my daughter was one of them, Gillian Noble and – who else? – there were only four anyway. So they

 

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went to Killin School, so from there they went to McLaren High, but Donna still went to, she went to Breadlabane.

HY: Right, was that more because you’d been and you kind of…?

JM: Well, I’d been and there was a – how did she used…how did she get? A wee bus, a minibus came, Gillian must’ve gone, Gillian Noble went to Breadalbane as well. [HY: Okay, right] Yeah. And the Taylor’s, they’d all gone there, so.

HY: So what, what sort of year would that have been when?

JM: [Slight pause] Donna was about - when Ardeonaig School closed? - she was probably about nine, must have been eighty-six, eighty-six, eighty-seven I think. Yeah.

HY: So that was kind of paid for the transport was it still? [JM: Yeah] They came right along and got them?

JM: Yeah, uh huh, yeah. And they got home, I mean they got home every night [HY: Yeah] going to the same school from the same house to Breadalbane and she got home every night.

HY: Was it quite late or was it quite…?

JM: No, twenty, half four [HY: Yeah], and didn’t go away till probably quarter past eight in the morning, as I went away, I’m sure it was half seven if not even earlier.

HY: And were there times when in the winter you just didn’t go?

JM: Oh, you didn’t [HY laughs]. Well you, honestly I remember my father taking us up to Killin after a [5:00] huge storm [HY: Right]. You had to go to school [laughs]. You just had to, you just didn’t…

HY: [Laughing] Through the snow and the wind.

JM: Uh huh, yeah, I mean it was unheard of really that you didn’t get.

HY: Yeah. And did you ever, I’m always interested to know whether people ever used the loch to get places? I know earlier in the century they did, that if the snow was bad on the roads they took to the boat.

JM: I don’t, I don’t remember [HY: You don’t remember that ever?], no, no, no.

HY: It’s interesting isn’t it?

JM: I think, you know, when the landrovers came out they could more or less get [HY: Anywhere] anywhere, uh huh, they were great when they came out. Yeah.

HY: And how about the, the floods – sort’ve Fiddlers Bay and stuff. I hear…

JM: I don’t remember the floods. [HY: You don’t remember]. There was a lot more snow, it used to be more like what last winter was like. But, no, it’s only recently that I remember floods.

HY: Oh, right.

JM: Yeah, remember huge storms, wind and that, but, and snow, but I don’t remember a lot of water [HY: Gosh]. No.

HY: So you don’t, don’t remember ever kinda get cut off?

 

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JM: Not with water, by snow along the Marabeg brae. But we were always able to get to Killin, there’s only been very few days that I can remember being totally cut off. Yeah.

HY: Wow.

JM: But, I was…the other night I was thinking about the meals that came from Killin to Ardeonaig School.

HY: Uh huh. You got school meals?

JM: Yeah, uh huh, and there was a lady came and served the meals and washed the dishes and everything at school.

HY: Goodness me, can you imagine.

JM: It all came in these wee containers.

HY: What sort of things did you eat then?

JM: What did we eat?

HY: Do you remember? Not semolina and things? [laughs]

JM: Yeah, lumpy custard. I really shouldn’t be saying this, but the cook in the school, the meals were cooked in Killin School, was actually Donald’s [Joan’s husband] mother [laughs].

HY: Oh, right.

JM: And when I met her at first I didn’t realise that she’d been the cook, and I used to talk about oh the dinners we got at Ardeonaig school, lumpy custard [HY laughs], lumpy…

HY: [Laughing]That went down well with her did it?

JM: Not really. She was actually a very good cook, but…

HY: Ah, it’s different cooking for a…

JM: Coming, and coming down the road.

HY: I was going to say.

JM: Now what I was thinking about was in the winter time, probably about November time they used to come with these rations they called them, just in case [HY: Oh, right] the dinners wouldn’t come, and there was big, I remember it went into a wee cupboard in the school. Big tins of spam, something like hot chocolate, but it wasn’t hot chocolate, they added hot water to it, and we thought, “ooh, rations [rubs hands together], great!” I think we only ever used them…

HY: I was going to say, did you ever get to have them?

JM: Not very often no.

HY: They would probably be disappointing anyway.

JM: Oh probably. We thought it was great, ‘Ooh, we’ve got, we’re gonna get a, these, we’ll get something out of these tins.” Maybe it was as well we didn’t. And milk, they used to send us milk down

 

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HY: In the little things?

JM: Yeah, and I remember it used to come in little bottles, and it used to come in and sit on top of the radiator.

HY: Oh, ‘cause it, had it been frozen before [JM: No, but any…] or just because that’s where they put it?

JM: Uh huh, yeah, and it was horrible, it was half warm when you drank it.

HY: Urgh, not good.

JM: Not good, no.

HY: No. So when you were at school were there pupils coming from Ardtalnaig ‘cause obviously the school had closed well before that in Ardtalnaig?

JM: Yeah, uh huh.

HY: So they still kind of…

JM: They came right along from Ardradnaig, you know where, [HY: Oh yeah] where Simon [Marchant] stays [HY: Yeah, yeah]. They came from there.

HY: So that was kind of the outer limits.

JM: Yeah, and we would be the outer…

HY: So it’s Kenmore then for the Acharn lot.

JM: They would go to, I think there was a school at Acharn.

HY: Yeah, there was a school there.

JM: Yeah, yeah. So that’s where, where they came from.

HY: ‘Cause one thing I, ‘cause obviously the study is looking at Ardeonaig and Ardtalnaig, and in some ways the relationship between the two, ‘cause it’s quite an interesting, they’re very close [JM: Yeah, uh huh] the hamlets, but certainly since the council divide they kind of face in opposite directions.

JM: That’s right, well we got a school car to school, and the car, the man that drove the car actually worked for my people at Cambusurich [HY: Uh huh], so he used to pick us up in the morning and go right away down to Ardradnaig and pick the Fergusons up, and then pick the rest of the pupils up on the way coming back towards the school [HY: Wow]. And then he did the same at night [HY: Uh huh], and he was supposed to be working on the farm, didn’t do a lot of work on the farm [JM and HY laugh].

HY: Bit of a jolly picking up children.

JM: Yeah.

HY: That’s quite…and, and do you remember kind of any social kind of events that went on locally? What, I mean, [JM: Any…] was bowls always popular or...?

JM: Bowls, uh huh, bowls both at Ardtalnaig and Ardeonaig. Yeah.

 

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HY: What, they kind of had separate ones [JM: Uh huh] or you all got together?

JM: No, they had separate ones [HY: Separate]. Then I think it all came to Ardeonaig. But I think they had them about three nights a week. Somebody said there was a ladies night, a men’s night and a mixed night [HY: Oh my goodness}. So, I didn’t go then, but no any social event in Ardeonaig was, ah, it was just a great, absolutely, [HY: Really?] Christmas parties, [HY: Uh huh] Halloween parties, that’s the two I remember.

HY: Right, and where did they, was the old kind of village hall there…

JM: The Old Hall [HY: The tin hut or whatever], where John English’s house is [10:00], uh huh, yeah.

HY: So that’s where everything used to take place [JM: Yeah] as far as you remember? [JM: Yep]. And did they ever have ceilidhs or was it more music nights?

JM: [Slight pause] I don’t really remember.

HY: You don’t remember that [JM: No, no], just bowls.

JM: Mum was quite – no, I didn’t even go to bowls - Mum was quite against lots of things like whist drives [HY: Oh, okay], things like that so we didn’t get [HY: Ah, I see]. But I think they did have quite a lot of whist drives [HY: Right], and in these days they were basket whists where you brought your own food [HY: Oh, yeah]. You brought enough for the other three people at your table [HY: Oh, okay], and I do remember Mum sending a bas…a basket of things like pancakes, tattie scones [HY: Okay] and things like that to the whist drives, but we didn’t get to go.

HY: So when did you first go then? Was it as a grown-up?

JM: [Slight pause] With a bit of begging, and dare I say it a few lies [laughs]. No, she did eventually come round a wee bit [HY: Yeah] and said, “Yeah, yeah, okay.”

HY: And did you socialise out…outside of kind of Ardeonaig?

JM: Oh, no. We didn’t, no.

HY: You didn’t go to Killin [JM: No] or Aberfeldy?

JM: Well that, the shows, the agricultural shows, and that again was just a great day out, you know, ‘cause we never went anywhere [HY: Uh huh]. We had one outing from Ardeonaig, the outing that still goes on now [HY: Oh yeah, the annual summer outing] was started in 19…I think it was 1960 [HY: uh huh, my goodness]. I was a wee girl in Primary 1 [laughs]. And that was our first outing, and I remember it was to Arbroath.

HY: Wow, you must’ve just been in awe.

JM: Yeah, I mean we were probably so excited we were just about ill with excitement the night before [JM and HY laugh]. And the bus had, used to stop about half way wherever we were going, and got out and they lifted up the boot, and in the boot there would be crisps and coloured juice, not, not just plain lemonade [HY: Oh, goodness]. It was fantastic [HY laughs].

HY: So who started it then? Whose idea…?

JM: The teacher, Miss Husband, the teacher, yeah.

 

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HY: Just came up with the idea that it would be good, [JM: Uh huh] good to do?

JM: I think she was quite a well-travelled woman [HY: Ah], and I think she must have thought it’s time these children saw a bit of the rest of the country, never mind the world.

HY: So, was it just the children who went then?

JM: No, no, no, parents, it was, it was a community outing, yeah.

HY: So were people quite receptive to it then, initially, or were they a bit kind of, “What’s this?”

JM: No, very much so.

HY: Oh, they were.

JM: Yeah, and I remember the, and Ian Stewart he was the gamekeeper, he lived in one of the West, either West Brae cottage or the other one, he used to bring his mouth organ, and sit on the bus playing all these tunes, ‘n’ there’d be singing ‘n’ we had streamers out the bus, and, oh, it was fantastic.

HY: Gosh, it sounds really good.

JM: It was good [laughs].

HY: It’s amazing that it’s continued for so many years then.

JM: Yeah, I don’t think, I don’t think there’s been a year without one.

HY: No, people obviously really appreciate it [JM: Yeah]. And was that just Ardeonaig? Or again it was probably right across Ardtalnaig.

JM: Well, there were more people living in Ardeonaig then, and you really, aye Ardeonaig and Ardtalnaig, but you didn’t need to try to extend it, the bus was pretty full.

HY: Right. So there were more people?

JM: There were more people, and then there was [slight pause], like a lot of aunties and uncles and that would join in.

HY: Come along…

JM: …as well, uh huh. Yeah.

HY: Goodness. I’m always interested as well about the [slight pause] public transport. I hear there used to be public transport along the lochside, like buses, do you…or the postbus.

JM: The postbus, uh huh.

HY: You remember that?

JM: Uh huh, yeah, oh aye. But I think there used to be a bus from Aberfeldy, it came up this side of the loch to Killin [HY: Yeah]. I don’t know if it was every day in the week, probably not.

HY: I mean, I saw somewhere that twice a day there was a bus, earlier in the…

JM: I think it would, yeah, uh huh.

 

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HY: Which seems…

JM: Twice a day?

HY: Which seems kind of unbelievable these days, but…

JM: Another thing they had were loads of vans coming round with groceries [HY: Uh huh]. You didn’t have to go anywhere.

HY: No, was that from both Killin [JM speaks at the same time] and Aberfeldy.

JM: Yeah, butcher’s vans, co-operative van [slight pause to think], there was a McEwan’s that came up from the Killin end, and then there were some came up from Aberfeldy end as well.

HY: Oh, wow [laughs]. Now there’s the ASDA man of course, but it doesn’t quite live up to it I’m sure.

JM: Ah, not quite, not quite, no [pause]. And there was oft’ a clothes van came round once a month, a Jack Naylor from Auchterarder, and then again before the outing we’d get a new dress, a nice wee new frock as we called it [HY: Uh huh], and we had pigtails, Janet [Joan’s sister] and I had pigtails, and new ribbons for our hair [HY laughs], new socks, oh, it was [HY: Oh, wow] it was great.

HY: We should bring that back in shouldn’t we [JM laughs]. Tell everyone they need a new outfit for the outing.

JM: It was great, and he knew, he knew what – well the outing was in June – and probably about May time he would know to put certain things in, ‘cause he knew what every family would want. ‘Cause the McDonalds up at Brae Farm were a big family [HY: Right], and he would have stuff for them as well. And they used to walk down from Brae Farm to the school [HY: Did they], any, all sorts of weather, it didn’t matter.

HY: Didn’t matter at all.

JM: [15:00] No. Nobody ever thought, oh, they’re not going to school today. [HY: No] Just had to go to school [HY: That was it], it was, it was the done thing.

HY: Yeah, and was the, was the time of it about the same when you were there, like it started about 9 o’clock and finished about…?

JM: The primary school were in at half nine I think and finished at half three.

HY: Right, so pretty similar [JM: Uh huh] timing [JM: Yeah, yeah]. Were there, was it like it is now with the toilets outside?

JM: Uh huh, just the same.

HY: With the picture of the Queen up?

JM: The picture of the Queen was, yeah, yeah, it’s the same picture, uh huh, yeah. We did everything in there, we did our gym, and when the dentist came, the dentist was out in the kitchen, used the kitchen. No, that was that was scary because they, she sort’ve started off with the oldest one, and the smaller ones were probably hearing the drill going, oh, it was, it was awful.

HY: Of course, that was the time of filling and drilling most things wasn’t it.

 

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JM: Uh huh, yeah, and that was in the kitchen, and then the dinners came aft… and she would have to move her chair out [laughs] and everything for the dinners.

HY: Oh my word. So did, did things like library vans and stuff come round?

JM: Yeah [HY: Yeah], twice a year I think and filled up an old bookcase with books.

HY: Oh, right so that was your library?

JM: Uh huh, and we got out to the van ourselves and we chose what books we would, wanted. Then the teacher probably changed them [JM and HY laugh].

HY: So apart from that did you, was there a library in Killin then? Did you ever get to use that, or? You just didn’t ever go.

JM: I don’t know if there was or not.

HY: No.

JM: No idea. We didn’t need it, we didn’t need, we really didn’t need to go anywhere, not really, you, we were quite, you could just about live with the vans that came round [HY: Yeah], yep.

HY: Felt self-sufficient, kind of, for everything [JM: Yeah]. That’s really…trying to get my head round that [laughs].

JM: Quite different, it was very different.

HY: Yeah, and what was your impression then of people who lived in Killin? Did it feel kind of, did you feel different to people who lived at the end of the loch?

JM: Oh, yes, uh huh, yeah, we didn’t, we didn’t know very many people [slight pause]. Well, you knew the people that had the garage because if you needed petrol you went, I went with Dad to get petrol.

HY: Was, there was one in Killin wasn’t there before…?

JM: There was two garages in Killin.

HY: There were two. What, the one at Lix Toll and the one in [JM: No], or two in Killin itself?

JM: Two in the village, uh huh [HY: Wow]. One where [slight pause] Costcutters used to be.

HY: Yeah, opposite Tign…the Tignnabruaich?

JM: That’s right, uh huh. And one [slight pause] – what is it now? – the National Trust place.

HY: Oh, Lyn…Lynedoch? Lynedoch.

JM: Yeah, there was another garage there [HY: Oh, wow], and Lix Toll [HY: Yep, oh so there…]. And there was a wee one down at Kenmore, Acharn and Kenmore.

HY: Oh right. Oh, I think I know where the one in Acharn must’ve been, is it [JM: uh huh] where the kind of, the sort’ve like a sales, car sales place now.

JM: That’s….

HY: Would that have been it?

 

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JM: Yeah, uh huh.

HY: Goodness. And, so in your memory, kind of, did your family always have kind of a car ‘n’, and stuff?

JM: Yeah, Dad had a, a car when, I think he probably got it about 1952, before I was born [HY: Yeah], yeah, yeah But he was into horses as well, I mean horses did all the farm work.

HY: Right, yeah ‘cause that’s interesting when, ‘cause tractors came in about that time [JM: Yeah, uh huh], the fifties as well.

JM: It was very unfortunate because I love horses that they had to stop working the horses when, when I was wee, but he still had, the horse was still there, I can remember her.

HY: Because he loved it so much.

JM: Uh huh, yeah.

HY: So was, did, I mean obviously you don’t remember it personally, but did he ever tell stories about that, using the horses [JM: Well, he was…] and how he felt about [JM: He…] going to tractors?

JM: I think he was really quite happy to go into tractors, but he was a really good horseman and he won lots of plough matches [HY: Oh, yeah]. Yeah.

HY: Did they keep on with the kind of traditional ploughing matches even after tractors? You know…

JM: Yeah, I think they’ve kind of gone back to them again [HY: Right]. Yeah, they stopped when the tractors came in [HY: Uh huh], but I think…

HY: They’re realising that that was quite special.

JM: And it’s really lovely to see two horse going along doing the ploughing, it’s lovely.

HY: So do you know what your family history is along here, how long your family’s been here, roughly?

JM: My dad’s people have been here for a long, long time. My, my mum was from the Islands [HY: Oh, right], uh huh, but Dad’s people have been here for, I really don’t know [HY: You don’t], maybe…

HY: And that’s the Andersons is it?

JM: Uh huh, yeah, yeah.

HY: Yeah, there’s certainly lots of them appearing in the records.

JM: They would be here in the eighteen hundreds, early eighteen hundreds I would think [HY: Gosh], yeah.

HY: And has it always been up at, kind of, Tullochan?

JM: Cambusurich, I think, was the main farm [HY: Right], but then we got tenancy of Tullochan Farm as well [HY: Oh okay] from I think it would have been the Earl of Breadalbane, and then my mum and dad bought it in 1968.

 

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HY: Yeah, that’s the one thing I’ve been finding is obviously when, I…I thought people had bought things a lot earlier when [20:00] the kind of Breadalbane Estate had all broken up, but it was quite a lot later ‘cause different…came in.

JM: Yeah, well there was other people, the people that owned the big house, she was the laird, and it wasn’t even from her.

HY: Price wasn’t it?

JM: Pardon?

HY: Mrs Price, I think, that came in, and then…

JM: Yeah, uh huh, and then there was a Madame Stewart Stephenson, uh huh. And I can’t remember who owned the estate after that, but [slight pause] yep that’s when, it was 1968 Mum and Dad bought it.

HY: Yeah, and do you think, was that a positive thing for them? Were they hap…like glad to be able to buy something that, finally, that they’d been working for so long?

JM: Well I can, I can remember, I was only, what, fourteen, and I’d always been interested in farming, and I remember very – that was quite young – Mum and Dad taking me aside one night and saying, “Look are you interested, gonna be interested in us…?” [HY: Oh, okay]. ‘Cause they wouldn’t have bought it because they were quite elderly [HY: Right]. They wouldn’t have bought it if I hadn’t been interested [HY: Yeah]. So I said, “Yeah, yeah”, I was interested.

HY: No pressure there then [laughs].

JM: And, so that’s why they bought it then.

HY: Oh, that’s really interesting. So you then, when you got married, you went to Killin?

JM: When I left school, I did, I carried onto sixth year but it was never in my intention to go to university or anything like that, it was always my plan to come home and run the farm. So that’s what I did. And, then I got married in 1974, and I went to live in Killin. And, but as I say, I still carried on coming back down.

HY: So did, did you say you lived in a Bed and Breakfast in Killin?

JM: No, no, I was joking, I just, no, [HY: You lived there] we did have [laughing] we did have a house, but I only used it for [HY echoes the following] bed and breakfast.

HY: And you came back to work on the [JM: Yeah, uh huh, yeah]…yeah. So having, that being the first time you’d lived in Killin, what, what did you kind of notice about it, like how did it feel being kind of in the village rather than…?

JM: It was fine, it was, it was really good. But then I knew I could, if I didn’t like it. I could always [HY: You could come back], uh huh, yeah.

HY: And then what made, was it that you needed to come back full-time to the farm, is that when you moved back?

JM: Well, my dad died in 1978 [HY: Oh okay], and we moved down in, I think it was 1980 [HY: Right], because the house was empty [HY: Oh, okay]. Mum had moved along to Cambusurich [HY: Oh, right, so she’d been there… I didn’t realise she’d been there that long] to look after, to look

 

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after Dad’s old uncle and aunt [HY: Right], so Tullochan was empty. So it seemed the sensible thing to do that we would just…

HY: Oh yeah, don’t like things sitting empty do you really.

JM: No, so then we moved down. Donna [Joan’s daughter] was just, I think Donna was just three when we moved down.

HY: Right [pause], so. And how do you think that your experience as a farmer, like has it changed or do you feel like your experience as a farmer has been pretty much the same since you…?

JM: Well, we’ve got, no it has changed, it’s changed quite a bit. We’ve had good years, we’ve had really, really bad years, [HY: Oh right] and at the moment it’s quite good again [HY: Right]. But we, we’ve had a few real bad years.

HY: And what makes a bad year, just the price you’ll get for…

JM: Well, there was the Foot and Mouth [HY: Oh right, yeah], but even before that prices had dropped. I’m not too sure why, I think there was actually, we were producing too much meat, and there was so much coming in from abroad that…but now, it has, it’s on the up.

HY: Right, so was that kind of the nineties then that it was a little bit?

JM: Yeah, uh huh. 1999, even before the Foot and Mouth, was a terrible yeah [HY: Oh, okay]. I’ve been looking back ‘cause I keep a note of prices [HY: Is that in your mind, 1999?], and I’ve, I’ve been looking back recently and I think, “How did we survive?”

HY: Gosh [pause]. Did you ever get to the point where you thought this isn’t, this isn’t something we can do or has it always just been…

JM: I get to that point quite often [JM and HY laugh]. You get up the next morning and you just [HY: Get on with it] get on with it, uh huh [HY: Yeah], yeah.

HY: So would you say it kind of a, like a, all year job, there’s no day off you get really or do you make time? I’ve heard some farmers never take holidays ‘n’, or do you manage to take time?

JM: We haven’t had a holiday for a long time [HY: Yeah], but I mean I suppose you could, you could get someone in but you think, “Oh they could…they, they wouldn’t manage to do that”, you know. Or you couldn’t ask them to do that, I think that’s maybe more what it is [HY: Right], you know. And you can’t really tell somebody else what to do, you can tell them the, what, the absolutely necessary things to do, but you can’t tell them all the other wee jobs that have to be done as well.

HY: That’s true. And do, do you ever just wish you could just take off though, not have the responsibility for a week.

JM: I tell you, yes, often, often, but it never happens [HY: No]. And it probably, probably won’t, but it, yeah often [HY: Yeah], oh. Especially with the weather we’ve been getting recently.

HY: Yeah, that’s true, it’s dipped back, it’s supposed to be a bad winter again this year isn’t it.

JM: Yeah, but I don’t know what a bad…rain to me is bad.

HY: Oh right, ‘cause it’s been very rainy this summer hasn’t it.

 

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JM: Uh huh, all summer [25:00] [HY: Yeah] and it’s, everything is so mucky and, oh, yeah, quite often…

HY: [Laughing] Do sheep not like rain?

JM: Sheep don’t like rain, no.

HY: Not at all?

JM: No, they don’t, they don’t mind snow or the frost provided [HY: Really?], provided they’ve got food [HY: Uh huh], that’s good for them because they’ve got their warm woolly coat on, and they can stand it. But there’s rain, it just, oh…

HY: It’s interesting.

JM: So.

HY: Yeah, so where does your land kind of go to, from? ‘Cause you’ve got a little bit in main Ardeonaig haven’t you.

JM: Yeah, that field has always gone with Tullochan Farm, I don’t know why, but it always has.

HY: So is it the bit that kind of goes from the main road down to the loch?

JM: It’s the bit yeah, from the school, the old school right along to opposite Mary Sandeman’s house, where the Log Cabin is [HY: Oh yeah], that’s, that’s all, that’s ours.

HY: And then, where does it start again as you get nearer?

JM: Do you know going up the hill towards Donald Hancock’s? At the end, at the end of the wood, that’s where it starts, uh huh.

HY: So it starts there and goes along, and how far?

JM: Right to Cloichran, [HY: Right] right up…

HY: That’s quite a lot of land to work then.

JM: There’s quite a lot of land, but I mean a lot of it is quite poor land, it’s not, you don’t, you can’t plough it, or [HY: No], well having said that you can’t plough it with the modern ploughs, the horses probably could’ve done it, yeah. [HY laughs]. But there were a lot, I mean my father and that did a lot more crop, we don’t do any crops.

HY: I was going to ask about crops, yeah, because it’s only recently really that people just don’t do crops.

JM: We don’t do crops any more, no.

HY: It’s just not worth it, is it.

JM: Wasn’t worth it, the weather was getting bad, seemed to be always…

HY: I suppose wet weather isn’t good is it.

JM: Getting wet, uh huh, yeah. Yeah, I remember, I think this is what a lot of people say, they remember the lovely summer days, but I do remember lovely summer days [HY: Yeah], going to

 

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make the hay [JM and HY laugh], with your wee flask of tea and [slight pause], scones and all that that went, and you sat round the haystacks having that.

HY: Oh very nice.

JM: It was lovely, super.

HY: That sounds lovely.

JM: I can remember one time Mum get…it was away along the hillside, making this flask and Dad was driving the tractor and I, now I don’t know where I was sitting, probably totally illegal nowadays. I might have been on his knee, might have been hanging onto something, and the basket with the flask fell off and broke, it was awful thinking, “Oh, we’re not going to get our tea today” [laughs].

HY: Gutting [pause]. Yeah, it’s, it is interesting about the crops and stuff, and even up, up the brae here in Ardeonaig, that there would have been lots of little crofts and people [JM: Oh yeah, uh huh] would have worked them, and it’s just all…

JM: Hamish McKinnon down at Lower Bealloch, where, where Derek [Barker] was for a wee while [HY: Oh yeah, uh huh], yeah he made hay for his cows, and he had a few cows [slight pause]. Opposite where, now where Helen Taylor lives there was other, people in, the crofters, they were in there, and they had their cows, and the Willocks at the top of the brae, the old Post, that was the new Post Office.

HY: The new, ahh.

JM: Yeah, we had an old Post Office and then we had a new Post Office, we had that in Ardeonaig as well, a Post Office.

HY: So when did that new one close then? [Pause] ‘Cause it doesn’t get mentioned much.

JM: The new one? Up, up at the top of the hill where Michael Willock is [Croft Valley].

HY: I’ve heard, I think it was someone mentioned, calling it the Post Office brae and I wondered what that meant [JM: Yeah]. It’s because it was actually, someone ran a Post Office.

JM: Uh huh, yeah, and the people got their pension there, you see they didn’t have to go to Killin [HY: Yeah, yeah], everything there, postal orders, stamps, and I can remember going in, you could get your car license there as well, that’s…

HY: That’s not the most convenient place for a Post Office though, had to go up that hill to get to it.

JM: Well, we didn’t because we were coming from the other end.

HY: Oh yeah, so you just walked across?

JM: No, no, we would come in the car. And I remember the woman in it, every time we used to go in she would go away through to the kitchen out of her house, ‘cause it was just, it was just in the porch really of the house [HY: Yeah], and she’d come back with a chocolate biscuit, Tunnock’s wafer or something. And again we thought, “Oh, this is fantastic.”

HY: So did it close literally when that lady…

JM: I think probably there was something in the country that closed all the small [HY: Right] Post Offices, uh huh, yeah.

 

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HY: Probably Margaret Thatcher [laughs]

JM: It would be before her time I think, just before her time.

HY: Just before?

JM: Yeah, think so.

HY: Gosh, so people would have then I suppose had to travel out a bit more for the post and stuff.

JM: Yeah, uh huh, and it was awful, I mean people were really upset when the Post Office closed. Then when the school closed [HY: Yeah], and then, just…

HY: Nothing left to close now [laughs].

JM: Nothing left to close, no.

HY: And just from your perspective, how do you kind of view the community here? [30:00] Do you feel it’s quite close-knit or is it kind of people getting on with their own things and occasionally come together? How do you view it?

JM: I think it’s, I think it’s really quite close-knit [HY: You think?], I would say it was, uh huh, yeah.

HY: And it’s got quite an identity to itself?

JM: Oh definitely, uh huh, yeah.

HY: And is that the same, do you see it’s changed at all in your lifetime?

JM: Well, there’s just not as many people to go to things, you know [HY: Yeah]. Like, now we have to depend on people coming from Killin to support us for some things like whist drives, and, whereas before you didn’t really have to [HY: No]. I think, it was more relations [HY: Oh, was it? Yeah] you know, people would have relatives, well I know some of the people in Ardeonaig had relatives in places like Strathyre, and they would always come up for whist drives or whatever.

HY: That’s quite a travel I suppose, isn’t it, even from Strathyre [JM: Uh huh, yeah], to come up for a whist drive.

JM: But I do, I remember people coming from Strathyre.

HY: Yep, so family was probably quite important for kind of bolstering numbers, and…

JM: I, I think so, uh huh. And probably people’s families lived closer like you know now people have family in Edinburgh or London or something like that, but in these days you know, the families weren’t that far away.

HY: Right, yeah, and did you, beyond your kind of mum and dad obviously, did your dad have other family members locally?

JM: Not, not young members, no Dad was, Dad was an only child, uh huh.

HY: Right, but did he have…

JM: He didn’t have…

HY: Oh you said his uncle and aunt, is that right?

 

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JM: Yeah, I don’t think – did he? – he had cousins but not [slight pause] well they were in, I think the nearest one was Kinloch Rannoch [HY: Oh okay]. But no, he didn’t, Dad didn’t have many relatives at all. Mum had loads, coming from the Islands, and they used to come in the summer holidays and that quite a lot to visit.

HY: Did you ever go back, which island in particular?

JM: Mum came from Raasay, but then she had a brother in Stornoway in Lewis, she’d three brothers in Lewis so we went there. But I couldn’t, I couldn’t wait to get back, I always wanted to get back home and get on with the work [laughs].

HY: [Laughing] Good work ethic.

JM: I just, no I just, I’ve always loved the animals and the farm. [Pause] It was good for a day or two, to get away, but no, after a wee while, a fortnight to me from far too long to be away.

HY: Is that how long you would go for then?

JM: To Lewis? Uh huh, probably, yeah, but Dad never went.

HY: Was that, would that have been the summer holidays then?

JM: Uh huh, yeah, uh huh.

HY: And you just wanted to get back to work.

JM: I wanted to get back to work, uh huh.

HY: Wow, and did, did you ever go on holiday anywhere else or was it just to visit family?

JM: It was just to visit family, uh huh. [Pause] No holidays didn’t rank very high…never in my life.

HY: Do you remember anyone else locally going on holidays or did they tend just to visit family ‘n’…

JM: I don’t, the McDonalds up at Brae Farm I don’t think they ever went, I don’t remember them ever going on holiday. Anne Stewart, she was at one of the cottages, she would probably go on holiday. [Slight pause] No, I don’t really…I mean we used to, the children would go to each other’s houses during the holidays for a day and have fun. That was good, that was a hol…

HY: Was that the childcare in the holidays?

JM: That was, that was a holiday, uh huh, yeah.

HY: [Laughs] Just get out. [Slight pause] And things like the Rural, did you go right from the start when it started in the seventies, it was seventy-three wasn’t it, it started?

JM: No, I didn’t go right at the start.

HY: Oh, I suppose you were in Killin.

JM: I was in Killin, yeah, uh huh.

HY: So when you moved back in, did you say 1980?

JM: Uh huh, probably be then that I started. Yeah.

HY: So it was probably quite established by then was it?

 

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JM: It was, uh huh, yeah.

HY: How many women sort of went back then? Do you remember? Was it about the same?

JM: Probably just about the same number as now, uh huh, yeah.

HY: Not bad, I’m trying to think how many people there are now.

JM: I think it would probably be very similar.

HY: About ten or something, on a good day.

JM: Or more.

HY: Or more sometimes.

JM: Uh huh.

HY: ‘Cause I’m sure someone said to me as well, the Rural was set up by the school teacher, it’s seems these school…

JM: That was a different, uh huh, yeah.

HY: A different school teacher, but it seems that school teachers have quite a big impact on…

JM: Yep, oh they, oh they definitely did, uh huh, yeah. They were the sort of…

HY: Took the initiative.

JM: Uh huh, yeah. [Pause] Yeah, no the Rural’s been a good thing I would say for, for the community

HY: Yeah. And, the Community Association, as it is now, that was…eighties was it, sort of established formally as the Ardeonaig and Ardtalnaig Community Association? Or, did you not have much to do with it?

JM: I don’t know what, yeah I did, I don’t know when it really. When it would, it would, when the school closed, probably before that it had been Parent Teacher sort of [HY: Okay] that, they, they [35:00] would organise, well it wasn’t called Parent Teachers but it would be the teacher, and she would have meetings, and I think there was then that everything would be organised. And probably when the school closed, they thought, “Oh, we’ll have to….” ‘Cause, well that’s when the school became the sort of community centre.

HY: Right, yeah, and that’s when…

JM: They would start a new committee.

HY: So when was the sort of old village – what do you call it? – the hall, when did that disappear then, the old?

JM: Well, then you started using the school. I don’t know [slight pause], probably in six…late sixties.

HY: Oh okay [JM: Yeah]. So it just…’cause I know there was a village, village hall – or whatever they called it – committee [JM: Uh huh]. Obviously, I wondered if they ran things back then or whether they just literally made sure the building was okay [laughs].

 

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JM: I don’t know, well they would have the bowls and, I think they had films, pictures, a picture night [HY: Oh, right] as well, uh huh. We weren’t allowed to that either.

HY: [Laughing] Deprived childhood clearly.

JM: [Laughing] I would say. Yeah they did, they had, they had pictures.

HY: Brought films in.

JM: Uh huh, yeah, Margaret Taylor’ll probably tell you better stories about that than I can, ‘cause I mean I have heard her saying that the films came on reels, and sometimes there was three reels to a film, [laughing] and she said sometimes you saw the end and then you saw the beginning and then saw the middle. [HY laughs]. Now I wasn’t there, didn’t get to go to that so I don’t know what.

HY: And when you were at school in Aberfeldy did you ever get to go to the cinema there, or, because you were in the hostel? I mean, did they let you out at night or did you kind of…?

JM: One night, one night a week, a Monday night was picture night, but then again Mum was very, very loath to let me go when I went, but eventually, as I say a few lies and a few, “Auch Mum, it’s a really good film, things like Ring of Bright Water, there can’t be any”, you know that…

HY: Yeah, she was just worried for you was she?

JM: Well, it was the way she’d been brought up in the Islands, they just didn’t do these kind of things. Dancing was totally out and going to the films, they were all supposed to be bad for you.

HY: So how did your parents meet then if she was…?

JM: Mum was, Mum had been a nurse in, down in Dumfries, and her brother and her Mum, Mum came to Ardtalnaig, to Kindrochit, where Jo is [HY: Oh, yeah]. He was the shepherd there [HY: Ah, right], and I think wherever he went his mum went with him. And then she took ill and Mum left her job in Dumfries and came up [HY: Oh, I see, that makes sense] to look after Mum, her Mum, and she met, met Dad. So that’s how she came to…

HY: And never left.

JM: Never left, no. [Pause].

HY: So do you think the boundary that was brought in in the seventies, you know the council divide, do you think that made a difference to people? ‘Cause I’m really interested to see how actually on the ground how people felt when suddenly Perthshire was sort of split up.

JM: Yeah, I can’t really remember thinking too much about it, but I did hear people saying, “Oh, we should have stayed with Perth and Kinross, this Central’s awful.” And I think they still say that.

HY: ‘Cause of course again you were in Killin at the time weren’t you so it was a bit more…

JM: When was that?

HY: It was seventy-fi…seventy-four, seventy-five [JM: Oh yeah, I was in Killin] when they did all the big boundary changes.

JM: No I really didn’t, don’t think I was too interested in that then.

HY: Didn’t make much different to you.

 

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JM: Not, not to me, no. [Pause] But I do think, you know, probably for the roads and things like that we would have been better if we’d stayed with Tayside, Perthshire.

HY: D’you still consider yourself as being from Perthshire?

JM: Oh aye, yes definitely.

HY: It’s your identity.

JM: Uh huh.

HY: And would you, talking of bigger cities, would you, if you had to go shopping and stuff, would you go Stirling direction or Perth? What’s your preference?

JM: I would probably go to Stirling, uh huh.

HY: Is that just because it’s slightly closer or just, you prefer it for…?

JM: Well, we go to Stirling to the market, to, with the sheep, and quite often on a Wednesday I just pop into Stirling, to the town and do some shopping there. So maybe that’s my real reason for going to Stirling.

HY: It’s a good enough reason.

JM: Well…

HY: Were the markets always there for you then in your…?

JM: No there was a market in Killin, that’s something, that’s a good one. [HY: Yeah] Yeah, so that was, to us that was a much major disaster when Killin market closed and the region, regional thing, I can’t, think that was in seventy…eighty-five, eighty-six time the market closed [HY: Okay]. So that, that was quite a, a blow.

HY: So you then had to go quite a long distance did you?

JM: Yeah, uh huh, yeah.

HY: And was that just because it wasn’t viable anymore d’you think? What were the reasons given?

JM: Well they weren’t having, getting the numbers. I mean, people were giving up farming [slight pause], the sort of big estates were taking over quite a lot of the farms. [HY: Right] And, they weren’t getting the volume of stock coming into Killin. But I think that had been quite a blow to the village as well ‘cause I think it, on a [40:00] Saturday that’s when the sales were, brought a lot of people into Killin [HY: That’s interesting], and the hotels and things like that would suffer quite a bit I think when the market closed.

HY: Yeah, ‘cause you always think of the tourism really, but actually like you say…

JM: Ah well, I mean, a lot of the buyers, of the cattle buyers would come down from Aberdeen on the Friday night and stay in the hotels. Then, well I suppose they had their breakfast, and they would have their dinner at night as well, so.

HY: And just talking about tourism, like, did you have any impression of this being a tourist area? Like to you, like, ‘cause obviously it’s where you grew up and the hills and the mountains are just normal.

JM: No, I don’t, I don’t think.

 

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HY: You didn’t perceive it as somewhere that people came to…

JM: Well, a lot of people did come when I was young to the farm, to Cambusurich camping [HY: Oh, right], from places like Falkirk and that kind of area so I mean that, that was another great thing for us because there was children quite often, and we had somebody to play with, and learn a wee bit more about the county, the rest of the country you know. We kind of thought Killin was the, the be all and end all, you know, didn’t really go much further than Killin [JM and HY laugh]. We got, we got geography at school [HY: But in terms of your own experience], but it didn’t, no. I mean, they were all foreign lands like, more like a fairy tale than anything else.

HY: Yeah, so did your dad set up the campsite or did people just come and…?

JM: Oh no, there was no set up…

HY: It was just like people assumed they could come to a farm and camp?

JM: Yeah, uh huh, and they would get their milk and eggs and all that as well. Used to come to the door for their milk in the morning, and eggs, and whatever else.

HY: That’s great.

JM: It was.

HY: Did they, other farmers do that, as far as you knew?

JM: I think Cambusurich was probably one of the main places, I don’t know why, maybe it was the first farm they came to coming from Killin end. And, regularly…

HY: Yeah, not too far along.

JM: That’s right. Regularly, I mean you expected these people a certain week of the year whenever their, the Glasgow holidays were or the Falkirk or the Stirling holidays these people would come.

HY: So it’s just turned into people coming and camping and making a mess these days though [laughs].

JM: Well they didn’t, not then [HY: No], they didn’t, they didn’t make a mess, no. You would never know, once they had gone that they had been, you would just see where the ground had been flattened a wee bit where the tent had been, but no. They were real, I mean they were, they came to enjoy the countryside and respect the countryside.

HY: Did people come to fish back then?

JM: Oh yeah, uh huh, and they could take as many fish as they liked, I mean trout, well they, as I say they would get their milk and their eggs, and we would get the trout or, that they had caught. Super.

HY: Did your dad ever fish himself, or did he just…?

JM: No, no, nae. I don’t know why, no he didn’t.

HY: Just relied on the campers to fish for him [laughs].

JM: Aye, that would only be a few weeks of the year right enough, but yeah, we just looked forward to them coming in the summer.

HY: That sounds really good. And when did, sort of, the bed and breakfast thing kick in?

 

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JM: Now who do I remember? The only person, people I remember doing bed and breakfast was down at Ardradnaig, where, you know where I mean [HY: Yeah]. We didn’t know what bed and breakfast was I don’t think until that set up ‘n’ I couldn’t quite understand how you would allow somebody else into your house. But Janette was really into it, and seemed to have a lot of the same people coming back year, year after year. It’d probably been going in Killin, but again we weren’t aware of it.

HY: It’s just, and I suppose for a lot of people, tourists, coming along the south side was a bit out the way, in a way because the north road being much better [JM: Uh huh], like a lot of people kind of took that route if they were travelling around.

JM: I don’t…I can remember way back this road being quite busy, with people just out for a run I suppose.

HY: Oh really?

JM: Yeah, uh huh.

HY: So, in their cars and stuff.

JM: In their cars, yeah, but they used to drive along very slowly [laughing] you know, not like now, zoom! And probably took in all the scenery, and just enjoyed themselves. But, no, I would say this road’s always been, especially in the summer time, quite, quite busy wee road.

HY: And have you ever, like, used the hotel, like, bar or whatever it’s been over the year. Have you ever come into Ardeonaig for that, for the pub?

JM: Oh yeah, uh huh. We’ve stopped doing that for quite a few years now, but oh yeah, it used to be a super place to meet on a Sat…especially a Saturday night.

HY: And do you think that would’ve been quite a social meeting place for people then?

JM: Oh it definitely was.

HY: They looked forward to that, so you say mainly on a Saturday or something?

JM: Mainly on a Saturday night, uh huh [HY: Get together]. [45:00] Used to have ceilidhs and things when the people called the Russells were there [HY: Right]. Used to have ceilidhs and…

HY: ‘Cause I’m sure the hotel looked very different back then did it? It wasn’t as big and…

JM: It wasn’t as big and it was much more friendly, much more like a place that the average person could go [HY: Right], you know have a drink and…yeah Saturday nights were great nights. Everybody met there, just in the last ten, twenty years, it was super, but since things have changed, no.

HY: Yeah, it’s gone up, up-market. And was it generally somewhere just used by the locals, or did you have a mix of locals and people coming in from outside?

JM: Oh yeah, uh huh, yeah, I’m sure quite a lot of friendships had, were made, you know, people coming to stay in the hotel and meeting the locals ‘n’ [slight pause], yeah.

HY: It’s interesting. [Pause] I can’t quite imagine people, you know, con…gathering in the, in the bar to kind of meet ‘n’ stuff now.

JM: Oh yeah, it was…

 

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HY: That must have been, when it did change, that must have been quite a big shock to people.

JM: It was, that took a wee while, a wee while to get used to, uh huh, you know, where, you can’t go out there on a Saturday night now [slight pause]. No because that’s what you, you used to go in there and have a drink and a chat with everybody and then, probably at that time it closed at ten, half ten, and then you would just go along to somebody’s house and have supper ‘n’ another wee dram or whatever. And, no, it was good, really good.

HY: And you say it was probably just in the last what ten years that that’s change.

JM: Uh huh, yeah, yeah. [Pause] Again, I was talking about milk, how we got milk at school, I can remember they had cows at the hotel then, and Mr…

HY: What, when you were at school?

JM: Uh huh, yeah, and we used to get, we went along, one of the older pupils would get to go along every day to get the milk in a wee can for the teacher [HY: Oh, wow]. Yep, and, oh, it was just, it was great, five minutes out of school to go along to the hotel to get the milk ‘n’ you felt you were really quite important, you know, to be one of the older ones now once you got to do that.

HY: And when did the, the cows go then? Was it just with that particular owner?

JM: The cows must have gone away [slight pause], again it must have been maybe sixty-four, sixty-three, sixty-four.

HY: It all changed.

JM: Yeah. There’s not such a thing, I’m sure the milk wasn’t pasteurised or nothing [HY: Oh, no, just], just in the can.

HY: Warm from the cow.

JM: Uh huh, yeah, that was the teacher’s milk.

HY: So did you say Donald [Joan’s husband] was from Killin originally, or his mum had?

JM: No, actually, actually his mum and dad, his dad was the chauffeur for Madame Stuart Stephenson here.

HY: Oh really.

JM: Yeah, and then I suppose he, when she left or whatever, they moved to Killin. So he, he was originally from Ardeonaig.

HY: So, as in, when his dad was working up here, he was quite young was he?

JM: Probably two, about two or three, uh huh.

HY: So they would’ve, would they have lived up here in the house the chauffeur would’ve had?

JM: Yeah, one of the house…one of these houses, the two houses that…

HY: Oh the [JM: Where are we?], East or West Brae?

JM: Uh huh, yeah, one of them he lived in, they lived in, yeah.

HY: Wow.

 

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JM: Strange.

HY: It is, isn’t it.

JM: Yeah.

HY: So they, they must have been, if there was a chauffeur, they must have been quite into their cars then were they [laughs], to have a chauffeur?

JM: Probably, oh yeah, and it would be a…

HY: [Laughing] Can’t imagine somebody having lots of cars up here.

JM: I think it was just one car…

HY: Just one, nice car though.

JM: But he did drive her everywhere to Edinburgh and places like that that she wanted to go to. I mean there are photographs, I don’t know where there are, but there are photographs of him with the door open for, for her to get in.

HY: And do you remember the, kind of, the lodge at all, from when you were younger? When it was in bit more, kind of, grandeur?

JM: Just, just a big house.

HY: Just a big house.

JM: Uh huh, yeah, and, well some of the, the gardener would have children going to school, and there was, I remember another family, I don’t really know what the father did, but they were very poor. And they were a big family, and some of them went to the primary school down there, and they were quite hungry, ‘cause I remember the boy in particular, who I think was about my age, saying to his two wee sisters, “Do you want that”, for their, for their meal. And, of course, we felt quite sorry for them, and I remember one particular packet of biscuits – I can’t remember what they were now – Mum would buy a packet of biscuits when one of the vans came round, and we were being very kind but we were not, [50:00] there was certain ones in the packet we didn’t like, so used to take them for the Bonars, and they loved them. I can remember they were biscuit and there was a wee sort o’ pink icing bit with coconut sprinkled on the top, and we didn’t like them, I don’t know why, but, so we used to bring them for them. But we didn’t really, had never known children to be, I mean none of us were well off, but we were all comfortable. But they were, they were quite poor. They didn’t, they didn’t stay in Ardeonaig for very long. [Whispering] I can remember that [laughs].

HY: I mean, I suppose there’s always been people who’ve come for a short time and gone, is that what you think?

JM: Yeah, uh huh.

HY: And some who’ve just been here a long time, would you say?

JM: Yeah, that’s what it’s been like, yeah, yeah.

HY: It’s not just in recent times then?

JM: No, no, it was, it was probably the people that worked for the people in the big house that came and went quite, quite regularly.

 

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HY: And I don’t suppose they had, back in the day, did they have extra people working at the hotel, or was it just the people who owned it who, kind of, ran it?

JM: Yeah, but then they started employing people locally, but mostly from Killin [HY: Right]. Yeah, there was quite, I remember quite a few coming down on the post bus and working at the hotel. They didn’t, they didn’t have the foreign staff like they do now, you know, they were, they were all fairly local. It probably employed quite a lot of people, Ardeonaig Hotel at one time, yeah.

HY: So was that post bus literally just when the post van came down people could get a lift on it? [JM: Yeah but…] How did that work, the post bus?

JM: Yeah, it came down in the morning, and anybody that wanted could get on the bus, go to Killin, go to Callander, I don’t think the connection from Callander to Stirling was too good, but they could at least get to Callander, and then it came back down in the after…the post bus came back down in the afternoon, yeah.

HY: Right, so you could go out for a short day [JM: You could] ‘nd come back.

JM: And it went on for years, Ian McGregor – do you remember Ian McGregor, no? [HY: No] – he started it, he fought hard to get it and then fought hard to keep it. And it, it was, it was a great thing, I mean that’s, that’s how the people came down to work in the hotel, on, on the post bus.

HY: So if you fought hard to get it, was that quite late on then that the post bus…? I suppose when the, if they had buses before that then it wouldn’t have been necessary.

JM: Ah, but there was, there was a big gap in between the buses and the…

HY: What, so there was there nothing?

JM: There was nothing, no. But then the postman was very good, I mean he would take anything from Killin that you wanted [slight pause], or from anywhere that you wanted. And he would shut, get you in the back of the van somehow or other if you desperately needed to go to Killin. It, I mean there was no rules, there was rules, there was no rules then the way there are now.

HY: Kind of made the best of it didn’t you.

JM: Yeah, he, he would, he would do your shopping for you, or you phoned up one of the shops in Killin and they would put it in a box ‘n’…

HY: And he’d bring it down.

JM: He would bring it down.

HY: And do you remember before the, you know, the old pier? Was that still sort of…?

JM: No.

HY: The tracks, were they still there when you were young?

JM: They may well have been but I can’t… [laughs]

HY: You never went down that way?

JM: No. Yeah, once a year when the, when the salmon fishing started on the 15th January. That was another outing from the school, to go down and watch the boats going out.

 

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HY: So did the boats go out from Ardeonaig?

JM: From Ardeonaig Hotel, uh huh, we were a big [HY: Oh, I see], it was a big, it was a big day [HY: With lots of people], yeah. And again that employed people because they used to have some, a boatman to take the fishermen out in the water [HY: Oh, okay]. That u… I mean some days these fishermen were out in that water the [HY: Was it not good?], it was scary, yeah, huge waves. I think there was a challenge to them, you know the [HY: Yeah]. And I remember one man in particular who, he lived in Killin and he would take the boat up and down the loch, oh, in all sorts of weather, and I think, you know, it was, it was dangerous but they just did it.

HY: So have you ever fancied having a boat and going out?

JM: No, I’m not a water person.

HY: [Laughing] No?

JM: [Laughing] No, not at all.

HY: You live next to the loch and you don’t like the water.

JM: It’s funny, yeah, well I like…

HY: So you, did you ever go down and swim in it when you were young?

JM: No.

HY: You didn’t do that?

JM: No, nope, again that was Mum, oh.

HY: Oh right. Did other children?

JM: No, I don’t think so, no [HY: They didn’t use it as], we were warned it was very dangerous.

HY: Right, not to go near the water.

JM: No, no.

HY: It’s interesting isn’t it [slight pause], very cold anyway at least.

JM: Yeah, oh well, you know, they kept telling us about these ledges that you just need to go out a wee bit and then there’s these ledges and you’ll get so, so deep or some. We did in the summertime just have a wee paddle, just at, just at the edge. Occasionally we would have a picnic which, great, absolutely fantastic.

HY: I suppose you [55:00], did you go in the, the burns ever, like paddling and stuff? Or, again were you not allowed ‘cause it was…?

JM: We weren’t supposed to, no.

HY: Did you sneak off and get into them?

JM: We just had, I don’t know, we never seemed to, we never seemed to be without something to do. You know, you just made your own games ‘n’ [slight pause], we didn’t have tele, I mean we didn’t have tele until I was about thirteen, fourteen.

 

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HY: Right [slight pause], and then reception wasn’t very good I hear.

JM: Oh it wasn’t, you know [laughing] I mean you could, you could just about make out. But, we weren’t too bad actually, we were later on in getting tele than most people, but, and we got a reasonably good picture. But it was fantastic to get the tele, I mean you thought, “Oh”, it was just great.

HY: Did you listen to the radio a lot before that?

JM: Listened to the radio and played lots of games, I mean, ludo, lexicon, all these kind of, just Mum and Dad, Janet and I. And we used to make up, Janet and I used to make up wee parcels of, bags of sugar, whatever, and whoever won that...

HY: [Laughing] You say you had prizes?

JM: Uh huh, yeah.

HY: That’s great.

JM: It was, we just, you, you didn’t, you weren’t bored. I mean kids nowadays they’re bored and they’ve got everything. But we, we were [HY: That’s very true], we had nothing and we weren’t bored.

HY: Yeah [pause]. That always makes me laugh with the television, just like, I hear stories about the signal being very bad.

JM: Oh yeah, very, very.

HY: But, like you say, it’s all relative isn’t it, if you had nothing before….

JM: Anything was better.

HY: …even a little something.

JM: That’s right, uh huh, and then when you got another channel, I mean it all started off with BBC One and then, one channel, and then if another one came, “This is great”, you know [laughs]. I think we were much easier pleased then than...

HY: Yeah, just quite content.

JM: Quite content.

HY: Would you describe yourself as content sort of as…?

JM: Yeah, yeah.

HY: It’s a good thing in life. And just one final question, you know the, all the shootings around the area? [JM: Uh huh] Do you remember it being a big thing when the shooting season was on, or was it, had it kind of faded a bit before your time?

JM: I think so, yeah, no I don’t, I don’t remember anything.

HY: ‘Cause there were shootings at Cambusurich itself weren’t there, earlier in the century? There was actually, like an actual shooting kind of place, it’s actually listed as [JM: Right] being a specific shooting [JM: Okay] along with kind of the Ardeonaig one and Ardtalnaig.

 

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JM: Oh, no I don’t, I don’t know anything about that, no.

HY: So you never had anything…

JM: It might have been happening but I wasn’t interested obviously, so I, I don’t know.

HY: You didn’t have to dodge people shooting at any point in the year?

JM: Not at all, no, but what I do remember, talking about Cambusurich, was the motor bike trials, the – seven day trials is it? [HY: Oh right] – and they were up the hill from Cambusurich, just directly up above Cambusurich house. And that was a great day, because…

HY: Was that sort of a summertime thing?

JM: Uh huh, yeah, I think it was May actually. My dad was in, into motorbikes as well.

HY: I’ve only seen the ones in Killin you see, when they do that kind of motorbike stuff, but…

JM: Well they went away up, up that road, and there actually are photographs somewhere, of the bikes up the hill.

HY: So did people, people came in from far and wide to do that?

JM: Yeah, uh huh, yeah. I can’t – is it the seven day trials, the six day trials? I’m not very sure what they were called. [Slight pause] Oh it was great to watch these bikes goin’ up.

HY: So it sounds as if there was lots of little things going on that kind of, kind of, dotted around the year that made it more interesting.

JM: Yeah, and you always, you always knew that next week was going to be something, you know, that the bikes would be going up there next week, or that’s when these people would be coming up camping. I think that was the way you lived your life. You always had something [HY: Coming up] to look forward to, yeah.

HY: Very good [pause]. So when did you get into bowls then?

JM: Oh, not that terribly long ago.

HY: No?

JM: No, probably, bowls had stopped for years, and the Ardeonaig people went down to Acharn to play, but John Taylor was really – Eilidh’s dad – was really keen that we get started in Ardeonaig again, so we did, and I think it must be ten, maybe ten, twelve years ago that I got into bowls.

HY: And you love it now do you?

JM: Yeah, I just wish I was better, but I do love it, I do, I do.

HY: That’s carpet bowls, isn’t it so that’s…?

JM: Yeah, uh huh, I do love bowls.

HY: Seems to be very popular.

JM: Yeah, well, it’s just quite difficult to keep it going, to get people to come. ‘Cause we always seem to be losing somebody, even from the Centre, I mean we had [slight pause] – who did we have? –

 

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Craig [Forsythe] and Dave [Walsh], they were really good supporters. But the rest just come, [1:00:00] come and go as they please [laughs]. Yeah.

HY: You’ll have to get Graeme into it [laughs].

JM: Have to, I must do.

HY: That’s really good. Well that’s been brilliant, thank you very much, I will listen back with interest and do your transcript.

JM: Oh, jeeze [laughs].

[Recording ends]

 

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Appendix 3: Oral history transcripts

3.5 Margaret McLaughlin

Name of interviewee: Margaret McLaughlin (MM)

Gender: Female

Date of birth: 3rd October 1941

Place of birth: Oban, Scotland

Date of interview: Tuesday 29th November, 2011

Name of interviewer: Helen Louise Young (HY)

Audio length: 1 hour 11 minutes 13 seconds. Five minute time markers are given in [ ].

HY: Right, if you just confirm your full name, date of birth and place of birth for me.

MM: Right, Margaret Louise Menzies, born Oban, 3rd of October 1941.

HY: Right, so what’s your married name now?

MM: McLaughlin.

HY: And how’s that spelt?

MM: M, C, L, A, U, G, H, L, I, N.

HY: Brilliant, thank you. So firstly, how did you come to the area?

MM: Well, I first came to the area, to Killin, to teach in the primary school there, and I thought it was quite a big school. I’d come from a two teacher school in Argyll, and I loved it and I landed with a primary six and seven [laughing] whom I could still all name I think. I really enjoyed that. Then I joined the Young Farmers’ Club and met up with Joe [Margaret’s husband], and in 1967 we got married, which still seems a good idea, and in 1969 we moved to Claggan. The farmer who’d been there, Robert Forbes, very sadly died of leukaemia aged twenty-eight, he was about a year older than us, and Donald MacAskill who was the son-in-law of Mrs Forbes – he’d married Robert’s sister – lived up at Tullich in Glen Lochay. Luckily for us he had known Joe’s father and mine, and decided that we would be, that Joe would be a suitable person, and he came here to run the place for the old lady, and we moved on the 25th August 1969 and the sun shone for three…for six weeks which was amazing. For someone from Argyll this was magic. [Slight pause] Our first child, Hamish, was ten months at that point, and he ended up that summer like a peach [laughing], all beautifully, just tanned nicely. And in the December of that year Dan was born. They were called after our, our fathers, Hamish after mine, and Dan after Daniel McLauglin who was Joe’s father. [Phone rings, recording paused]

HY: [Restarting recording] There you go.

MM: I remember finding it very, very cold that winter. We had a lot of snow and a huge amount of frost, and apart from Rayburn in Achomer, there was no heating at all, well there was a little fire in

 

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the living room but most of the heat went up the chimney. And [slight pause], eventually a few, some years later when the children’s hot water bottles froze on a carpeted floor, I decided that really you should approach – by that time it was, the Berry’s had Claggan – approach the factor and said, “Please could we have a bit of heating?” And we did, which was good, well we started off in the children’s room and eventually we had some too. When you’re young it’s not quite so important. [Pause] Now…

HY: So what was your impression of the community here when you came? I mean, how many families, or people were in Ardtalnaig specifically?

MM: In Ardtalnaig, in Kindrochit there were the McLeods, they had two children, five and ten. At Milton of Ardtalnaig, Katie [Browne] who was Mervyn’s wife, and Mervyn had one daughter who was ten, and [slight pause] that was it as far as children went. About a year and a bit after we moved in, the MacNaughtons moved in up to Claggan and they had a son who was at that point five, and older children, quite, they were mostly a bit older. [Slight pause] No there weren’t any other children, you know, in the Ardtalnaig catchment. No, I, down at Ardradnaig the Fergusons had two boys, but they were older than our lot [slight pause], they were there. One of the thing that struck me when we came here, I was the only wife who dri…drove, and that was very useful. [Pause] [5:00] And when we were going to the WRI which started in 1971, I was able to take some of the ladies along and that was quite good. [Pause] We liked living up there, we very much liked living on the farm, it’s a very good farm, and my husband was ex…Joe was very happy running it. I was happy, sometimes extremely busy because at gathering times or shearing times I used to have to feed people, more than just Joe and whoever was the shepherd at the time. So, [slight pause] the kitchen at Achomer was very small but I have fed nine people [laughs] round the table. And, I can remember saying to the, my own gang, “Now look, you either have something now to eat or you have it after the men feed”, and that was it. And they were very, they used to enjoy all the ploy of having extra people in who would tease them a little and have fun with them.

HY: So, I’m always interested in, in the way that shepherds sort of would come and go. Was that something, did they tend to, were there some that came just for a short time, and some [MM: Yes] that came longer term?

MM: Now when, when we first came [slight pause], the first shepherd Joe had here was a Jimmy Stewart who belonged to Blair Atholl, he’d been in the Lovat Scouts and he was quite a character, didn’t speak much about the war, loved my two big boys to pieces, was very good to them. I can remember the day that Hamish had gone over to Oban to stay with my mother when Dan was born and when he came home about a week later - and was I longing to see him – Jimmy was in our house, looked out the door and said [mimicking], “They’ve got that pram the wrong way round, I’ll go down and give them a hand.” [Laughing] This was my sister and my mother coming up the road pushing the pushchair with Hamish in it, and he dragged it up the road, but he was very good to them, he was a bit of a rough diamond but he was a, a very good-hearted person, yes. And then, we had several, two younger men worked for a bit [slight pause], and then, in 1980 I think it was, Joe did something that made the neighbours blink – he got a shepherdess, Catriona Cleghorn who had not originally been brought up on a farm or anything, but she was very trustworthy. She loved animals, and if she looked at stock and said they were okay then Joe could trust that they were, which was good. I liked her enormously because she was interested in flowers and birds as I was, and it was great, for eleven years she was our shepherd.

HY: And was she just on her own?

MM: Yes.

 

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HY: Were most shepherds just single people?

MM: Well, she, she was, yes, most of the ones we’ve had were single [slight pause]. She left because she got very tired of feeding [laughing] cattle in the mud, and who would blame her, so did Joe but he couldn’t give up. And our youngest son Joe had gone off to work for another farmer up at Loch Lomond, and he decided that he would come back to work with his father if this was agreeable to all parties - which luckily it was – and it’ll twenty-one years next June since Joe came back.

HY: Wow.

MM: He, he left home at seventeen, came back at nineteen, and next year he’ll be forty, heaven help us [laughs]. So, that’s what happened and Joe’s been here ever since [slight pause] which has been a very good thing for his dad, a very good thing for the farm because, as well as being quite a good stockman – his mother says this, he is - he’s excellent at, with his hands, he’s good at fences and that sort of a thing, and must have saved the, the estate a great deal of money because he did, you know, they bought him the posts and whatever, and wire, but he did it. And when he did they lasted [laughs] so that was good. Now, interesting characters [slight pause] Sandy McLaren lived in Ben View and had Ben View croft, that was where Jim McKirdy lives now. [10:00] And Sandy was an out ‘n’ out character. Didn’t totally approve of Joe and I for two reasons: first of all Joe was working for the estate and that was [clock chimes] not quite the thing; and secondly, neither of us were living in the parish where we’d been born. That was not approved, but gradually he kinda got the hang of us, and [slight pause] - I’m trying to think when this all started – I became his unofficial home help at one point. It started because he hurt himself, he broke his arm and he needed a wee bit of help, he lived on his own, he’d always been a bachelor. His sister incidentally had taught with me at Killin, [HY: Oh, right] Elizabeth.

HY: Small world.

MM: But there you go, and they’re both buried across in the graveyard over here, just at Ardtalnaig. Sandy was [laughing] something else. He lived in a house with cold running water, there had been an outside toilet but by this time there wasn’t, it had given up. And, yes it was a bit frugal shall we say. [Slight pause] He had a wee car and he used to drive it into Aberfeldy, I once, I think, took a lift with him and I came back and said to Joe, “You know, I was scared”, and he said, “Yes, you take Sandy, not the other way round”, and I never ever did again. I didn’t tell Sandy that, I managed to make excuses for not travelling with him. [Slight pause] He died quite sadly, he was drowned in the…we’re not sure whether he took a heart attack and fell into the burn, or what, or whether he tripped and fell in and had the heart attack because of the cold. All this happened in a February, and I had been the last person to see him and I was, I was really upset about that, it was horrible. It’s funny, he hadn’t been awfully cheerful in the morning and I’d gone down in the afternoon with a couple of scones to perk him up, and the fire wasn’t very bright and, but he wandered around, you know, he’d go away out, and I couldn’t find him. So I went to get Joe – what else do I ever do if I’m needing help with anything – and they were working in the fank for some reason, Joe came down and he found him. He said, “You go down to Milton, in case he’s there”, but he wasn’t, and he found him. I think Joe was determined I wouldn’t find him. So, that was Sandy. But Sandy had huge knowledge of the area and had lived here all his life. They had the Post Office, and a shop. His aunt had the Post Office, that was down where Post Cottage is, and [slight pause] he had the shop, there was still the big counter in the shop, I don’t know quite what all they sold but things like, useful things like paraffin and bread, and probably syrup and treacle and useful things that one would need. But that had closed a long time before we got here, I’m not quite sure when. But he used to talk about, his mother ran the shop, I think she was quite a character [slight pause], and an aunt lived in a wee house that’s now no longer there, not even a ruin, further up, but there was quite a family of them. He spoke of

 

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having…being sent to meet his father coming back from Aberfeldy, now Sandy didn’t drink but I think father had been quite pleased to have a tipple, and this would be a horse and cart, and Sandy used to be sent walking down the road to meet him, to make sure that he got home. But I don’t remember him at all, or his mother. Sandy would be over eighty when he died.

HY: When did he die?

MM: That’s what I’m trying to remember, 1987 I think [slight pause]. Think it was 1987. Yes, because 1985 was a sad year, someone across the loch died aged fifty from a brain tumour, a good friend of his who was nearly eighty I think died down at Achianich just about a fortnight [15:00] later, and Duncan Ferguson died just before the two of them, he died just before Christmas, that was Janette Ferguson’s husband, Duncan. So that was a grim year for the lochside generally, well Stewart dying at fifty was something else, and it was not quite two years later when Sandy died. His sister was also a character. She had not wanted to be a teacher though she was quite a good one, she wanted to be a nurse but her parents wouldn’t let her. Now she died, and she was over ninety, in a home over in Blairgowrie. I remember feeling sorry for her, that she hadn’t been able to, you know I loved teaching and she didn’t altogether, and it was a shame, but teaching apparently was [slight pause] suitable [HY: Yeah], nursing wasn’t so much. So, that was her.

HY: How long did you teach in Killin?

MM: I taught for three years over in Argyll, came to Killin and I taught for about two and a half [slight pause], you know, and in these days, I taught till Hamish was pending, and probably if I’d known that the first three months were the worst I’d have taught for a [laughing] little longer. But I didn’t then. And, I was tra…when he was expecting we were staying up at Tyndrum so, you know, it was quite, relatively a long trail back and forward. Then, 1980 I went back to supply teaching, and I can remember how cheerful I felt about that, how pleased I was to be accepted because I remember being asked, you know, what, what I’d done in the ten years since I’d stopped, about ten years. And I said, “Sunday School, family of four - does that count?”, and so on. I’d had quite a lot to do with children really, one way and another, nieces and nephews too, and Stirling as it was then seemed quite pleased. I’d originally, when I was in Killin, been employed by Perth and Kinross you see, ‘fore it change, and it was a Mr Ian Collie who said yes, he’d thought I’d be suitable. And first year I think I only did about ten days or twelve days, but it was a wonderful feeling to be back to something that I really liked, as well as being at home which I really liked, and a few years after I started - probably about two years, not very long – I was in Killin one or two days a week, always with the same class, my favourite six and seven, and that was, that was marvellous, it really was, because it was the same children. They got used to me, I got used to them, and the staff and the children accepted that I was part of the fittings as it were, you know. It was good.

HY: Suppose that gave you a nice link to Killin in a way because [MM: Yes] other people in this area have said that they’ve tended to look towards Aberfeldy.

MM: Well I usually shopped in Aberfeldy, but I had, because I’d been teaching in Killin before I knew a great many people, and there was still one or two, Gladys Farquharson who had come as a Miss Hendry to teach years before, she was from Dundee [pause] and [phone rings] she was a very good friend. Oh dash it [recording paused as MM answers the phone]. Our children didn’t play hugely with the neighbours because they weren’t very near, they did go along to Dall because we were friends with Margaret and Kenneth [Taylor] and their children, some of them at least were near enough in ages to ours, but they never seemed to get bored, or very rarely, they didn’t allow, boredom was not a thing that was mentioned. [Slight pause] The boys helped their dad a great deal from the time they were big enough to do anything really. [Slight pause] In the summer they would go and help to

 

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gather sheep and then perhaps they would fish on the way in the glen again, or they would take their trunks with them and go swimming in the burn, which was extremely cold even at the best of times but they liked it. They would make things like bows and arrows [20:00] from hazel wood [slight pause], I think we’re needing them here to say what they did [laughs]. They, yes, they, they [slight pause] they were always, all of them, fond of our dogs. Joe had usually four or five collies for sheep work and they were fond of them and there would be pups, and so on. One of the highlights of the year was going to a sale in Killin. Now the market in Killin is closed these many years, but when they were young it was on the go, and that was great fun. They met up with their friends, they were quite safe because about ninety per cent of those there would know that they were the young McLaughlins, and [slight pause] they enjoyed it hugely, and at the end of the sale Joe would treat them to lemonade and a cake, this was a jolly good thing. [Slight pause] Oddly, our grandchildren are following in their footsteps by going to markets in Dalmally, but they like a pie, very unhealthy but they do, and they have fun in the same way with their friends up there, all these, a whole generation later. The Halloween party was a great treat, after they went back to school in October, after the October holiday, that was all that was talked about, what on earth would they dress up as. And on one famous occasion, the McLaughlins and the Taylors were both going as Goldilocks and the three bears, but since we had a Goldilocks – our Anne was blonde, very blonde – we [laughing], Margaret [Taylor] graciously said we could do the bears and the Goldilocks, so they went as that, can’t remember whether they got a prize, but they were very pleased. I made the masks for the bears, having kept some bits and pieces from school for things like that, and Anne had a red cloak – I can’t remember exactly how she was dressed up, but anyway she was Goldilocks.[Slight pause] All sorts of things did they dress up, I remember a Robinson Crusoe, an owl made of a feeding bag turned outside in with [laughing] feathers stuck on.

HY: So was that the local Halloween party?

MM: Yes, along at the school. That one started, I don’t think it was, the WRI ran that one for the children, and they dooked for apples, and had treacle scones, and made a wonderful mess, and had great fun. And then of course there was the famous Christmas party which was originally, the gifts in our day anyway were given by Mr William Taylor who was Kenneth’s father, and Santa – various, not the present on [who is Joe McLaughlin] [HY and MM laugh] – came and delivered the gifts, and they had great fun there, they had a lovely tea, music, fun, it was, it was great. In the summer they usually did a production and that varied from singing – they usually sang carols at the party, that was the other thing, we still do that – but in the summer at closing time they had a wee concert, and all sorts of ploys went on at it, little plays. When Mrs MacInnes retired, Sheena Chisholm was their teacher, and she even managed a pantomime [laughs] with nine children. Cinderella, well it was sort of Cinderella and something else mixed in, but Sheena was, is very musical and it was a wonderful ploy. It really was. I also remember Donna MacKenzie and Willie [Taylor] singing ‘There’s a hole in my bucket’ to the absolute hilarity of the cong…the audience, it was really funny. They were both quite small at the time, and it was, it was very funny and very good, and that was Sheena’s effort.

HY: So your children went to Ardeonaig school did they?

MM: Yes. The older ones were under the guidance of Mrs MacInnes the whole time. Now Mrs MacInnes was about the same age as my mother [25:00], she was quite strict, but she had a wide knowledge and was a good teacher of her time, she really was. And she did sensible things like getting the older children to go out and greet people who came to the school, even school inspectors – they didn’t know to be scared of them like teachers are [laughs] – and bring them in and introduce them to her, and reinforce what we were trying to do at home, and other parents too, in the way of ordinary good manners, and so on. And that I think was a tremendous thing. She also had

 

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a very good knowledge of botany and, and birds, and animals, she had a good country knowledge, and that was good for them.

HY: Was she at the school quite a long time?

MM: Yee…now, I’m trying to think if she was here, yes I think she was here by the time we came here. I think perhaps she’d come about the year before we did, sixty-eight thereby, that would need to be checked out, I can’t remember. Now Hamish started school [quietly] sixty-eight, [louder] maybe seventy-three, and she was well-established by then. [Pause] On a famous occasion my two older boys came home from school and it was quite obvious to me that something was bothering them, especially Hamish who got more bothered than Dan about such matters, and I left it for a bit and then I said, “What’s wrong Hamish?”, “Oh”, he said, “Dan and I had a fight, and we wouldn’t say we were sorry to Mrs MacInnes, and she wasn’t very pleased with us, and I’m sorry now.” So I said, “Well, I think the best thing you can do Hamish is for me to dial Mrs MacInnes’ number, but I won’t say anything to her, I will just tell her there are two young gentlemen wanting a word with her.” And Mrs MacInness answered and I said just that, and they said they were sorry, and you could see Hamish’s relief, that was it sorted, he was probably still a bit sorry, but you know how they hate falling out with adults that they like [laughs]. That was it sorted, so that was fine, and as far as I know she didn’t hold it against them [laughs]. She maybe didn’t realise that small children in the same family do just sometimes fall out, and - I mean, I expect your two do – and they fall in again very quickly. I mean, if someone else had taken one of the, Hamish’s side or Dan’s they’d have been [coughs], they’d have recovered quickly and been on the same side, you know. That seemed the best way to deal with it.

HY: So did your, those two boys go on school transport, you didn’t have to take them?

MM: Yes, yes they did, and they were taken from the door at Achomer, this was marvellous [HY: Wow]. I know, weren’t we lucky. When Hamish started it was an old gentleman who lived up – now what on earth is that called? [coughs] – Croft Shennach? Up, the one just past where Mary Sandeman used to live, what’s that one called?

HY: I know which one you mean but…[Croft Valley]

MM: Yes, I think that’s the one, he lived in Ardeonaig and he did it, and then for a while Mr MacInnes did it [slight pause], and then Donald Hancock’s father, Les Hancock, and my boys, especially the older, no they all loved Les. He was great fun, he had a huge knowledge of technical things and so on. One of my memories is Dan coming home in great glee, he and Mr Hancock – they always called him Mr Hancock – had managed the Rubik cube. Dan was so annoyed – and the rest got fed up with the Rubik cube, to hang with it, Anne even picked all the bits off and put them on again the way people do sometimes – but Dan had the kind of make-up that, he wanted to conquer this thing and he got a book to tell him how to do it, and he did. And then he took it to Mr Hancock and he [laughing], he sorted it out too [30:00]. Like Donald, he was a very technical person. He died very suddenly any very sadly. He drove them down to school in the morning, came home, wasn’t a terribly good day, went in to have a cup of tea and Mrs Hancock went through to boil the kettle, came back and found him gone.

HY: He’d just had a heart attack?

MM: He’d just had a heart attack. And I can still remember young Joe’s face coming in the door, “Mum, I’ve got some really bad news for ya, Mr Hancock’s dead, and he was there this morning”…

HY: What a shock.

 

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MM: …you know, and he was shocked. Now Anne should have been there but she was away cooking on a…they had won, she and a friend who lived in Acharn, had won a cooking thing for their year and went away down to London – they didn’t win that one – but they were away just at the time this happened. But I can remember Joe, I was busy peeling potatoes for the dinner and he came in and he was really quite shocked, it was somebody that he’d known well [HY: Yeah, yeah], and he’d died…

HY: All of a sudden

MM: Yes, and very sudden, he hadn’t been ill.

HY: How did the community respond to that? You’ve told me about a few of the almost tragic kind of cases of people. Did people just kind of talk to each other as the normally would and talk about it, or just…?

MM: I think they did.

HY: Did everyone go to the funeral?

MM: Oh yes, absolutely. Yes, Sandy’s funeral everybody went, I can remember Chris, Catriona got desperately upset that day, she’d been there for a while ‘n’ I remember saying to her, “But he was old, you know, he wasn’t young and people don’t live forever.” But I was…yes, that was…

HY: It’s just the way it happened I suppose, isn’t it more…

MM: Yes, it was, and, yes it was a horrible shock, it really was, and the fact that I had seen him, I’d been thinking about him through the day because he didn’t seem in very good form [slight pause], and gone down and there he wasn’t. [Pause] Deirdre was very upset, Deirdre Browne, because she’d known him from she was a little girl [HY: Yeah], and Sandy thought the world of Deidre, and the young ones at, at Kindrochit, the two young McLeods. Christina [pause], who sadly died of leukaemia in her mid-thirties. One of the other sad things, she had Hodgkin’s when she was about thirteen, and that was seventy…it was the same year as the twins were born, seventy-one, sort of, seventy-two, seventy-three. [Pause] ‘Cause she was in hospital in Glasgow, and I can remember Joe and I were going to my brother’s wedding in January of seventy-three, and we took Mrs McLeod down. I took the twins and lef…the boys, they were all invited to the wedding but the twins were only, what, seven months. We left them with my sister-in-law at Port of Menteith, [laughing] she’d had a baby the day before the twins and she had two older ones just like us, but she gallantly looked after them till we came back from the wedding, and there you are. But that poor Christina, but she got over her Hodgkin’s, thankfully, but twenty years later [slight pause] it wouldn’t do. [Pause] Mrs McLeod, and, and Murdo were Free Church, so they didn’t do anything on Sundays, at all. Mrs McLeod was probably one of the kindest, best Christian people I’ve ever met, she was lovely. That year that the twins, when the twins were born, my blood pressure shot up and it wasn’t very good for a little, and almost every time Joe was down seeing her there would be a wee bunch of roses from the garden, he used to work with Murdo, or some small thing, a packet of biscuits, something that she thought would help. She wasn’t able to drive, she wasn’t able to come up, but I remember thinking…but she was, she was a very kind person. [Pause] I have been incredibly lucky, the people I have known in the older generation, very, very fortunate indeed. People who were an amazing example [35:00], and people, people I’m just very glad I knew. Others who came into that category were Mr and Mrs MacDonald who lived at Pier Cottage. Now they had come, they knew the Forbes, they’d come to stay in Achomer, then Robert Forbes died and they needed the house for someone to look after the farm, and by good fortune Mervyn had Pier Cottage at that time, the people who were in their had got a council house

 

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in Killin, they moved down without as much as a murmur of how unfair it was that they had to move. I remember they left kindlers to light the fire when we came in, these are things that you remember. And, Archie died in 1973 I think it was, but Mrs MacDonald stayed on there for quite a long time, very sad to begin with but accepting. They were also people who went to church, in Kenmore this time, and when our Dan was twenty-one in 1980, she heard that he was getting a kilt for his birthday, or a contribution towards anyway, and she said, “Right”, she said, “I’ll make him kilt hose” – by this time she was over eighty – and she made the most beautiful kilt hose for him, and I thought, “Now that was kind.”

HY: That’s lovely. [Pause] So you were clearly really accepted part of the community then. Like, [MM: Well…] was there a time you didn’t feel that, when you first came in, or because you were coming in to farm was it different.

MM: Maybe a very little because we were, because Joe was working here, and partly because Joe is a canny, totally unboastful person, I think, I think we were. He was accepted as being, yes, competent at his job at the least. But, yes, later, another little memory of Mrs MacDonald, she moved eventually to a council flat in Aberfeldy. Young Joe used to go down and collect the Sunday Post from her through the week – it was a good idea, he always got a chocolate biscuit – and I used to go in mostly on [laughing] a Friday to see her and there would always be a nice white china cup with a tea biscuit because she knew I liked tea biscuits, except at Christmas time when she made the most beautiful tiny wee Christmas pies, and I would get a Christmas pie. But on one occasion I can remember going in, it was just when Dan had had that accident and I was really bothered, I was bothered whether he’d be charged with dangerous driving – [clock chimes] he wasn’t, he was, it was careless in the end which made a huge difference, he was fined, I can’t remember how much, but it was accepted that it was an accident, you know – and I remember going in and being almost in tears of anxiety and botheration over the whole thing. She said, “Margaret”, and it was so like my own mother would have said, “This will pass, and you’ll look back…”, [pause], and she said, “I’ll think about Dan”, which meant that she would pray about Dan, and it was such a comfort. I remember leaving feeling much calmer, and again these two ladies, Mrs McLeod and Mrs MacDonald were two people that anybody would’ve been very glad to have known. They were special. Mrs MacDonald really was a kind of extra granny to our lot. Her grandchildren used to come and stay and they would come up for a day to us to play. Ruth was a year older than the twins and her brother was a bit younger [slight pause]. Met Ruth at Dalmally Show this year , she doesn’t really seem to have changed a lot except that of course she’s grown up, and of course she’s got family now. But, yes, [pause].

HY: So was there ever a point at which you thought about moving away? Or when you were, once you were here did you think that’s us?

MM: Joe once applied, and actually got, was accepted for another job, [slight pause] and I wasn’t very sure but, I mean he was the earner, and, well I remember feeling quite relieved when, “Ah you know”, he said, “I think we’re fine here”, and we stayed. [Pause] The fact that it was a very, very good farm. Now, it would have been nice to have [40:00] had more input from the owners, though we did a bit with, the, at the time that the Berrys, Colonel Berry and his wife had it, there was a factor. Now the first factor [slight pause] was a bit factorish [laughs], and then we had a man called James Boscone, now [laughs] he wasn’t a brilliant farmer but he and Joe came to [slight pause] an understanding that Joe knew about stock and would manage, but he was very good whenever anything became difficult. He could sort things out, and we liked him, I liked him as a person [slight pause], which was good. And then, the Moncrieffs took over, they bought it when the Berrys sold, and on it has gone, that was in 1993. They had one small son, and their daughter Idina was born the week they signed up for Claggan, so I always remember how old she is. They’re young adults now. [Slight pause] Probably, Peregrin Moncrieff bought the place because he was interested in the sport

 

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more than the farm, which from our point of view was a bit of a pity, but also, he, he decided he didn’t need a factor, and Joe could get on with it. And in the very best sense of the, things, Joe treated Claggan as if it was his own and did the very best he could, now sometimes he made mistakes, he wasn’t perfect, even isn’t. But, he’s a very honest person and he, he ran it the very best he could for them. And now I think next Joe is doing the same, I hope, yes he is.

HY: So Joe senior retired this year did he?

MM: Well…

HY: Whatever retired means.

MM: He’s still [laughing], he’s still working and gets, gets paid by the hour for doing bits and pieces. Doesn’t, doesn’t charge one hour more than [laughing], more than he does that’s for sure. Yes, he retired officially about three years ago [HY: Oh, okay] - three? Aye, when, yes you weren’t, we couldn’t have, I don’t, were you here by the time he had his party? His retiral party which actually happened in the March after [HY: Right, I don’t remember it], up at, no, we, we absolutely couldn’t have everybody at it. Nat and Morag [Felgate] were there because they were our neighbours and Nat was our mole-catcher [laughs]. I miss them going past, yes, but…[pause].

HY: So did Joe junior then take on [MM: Yes] his roles when he? Right, okay.

MM: And he is on his own, which is why Joe needs to be there sometimes to help. Sometimes I get a bit concerned about what’ll happen when Joe’s not fit to do that, because that’s the way with farms, they seem to be fewer and fewer people.

HY: And it’s still the Moncrieffs now who [MM: Yes] own it?

MM: They’re still there, but they’re very much absentee, no they’re not around [slight pause], which, which is a pity. They come, you know, from time to time, but [slight pause] there it is.

HY: Is the shooting as much as it used to be, or not so much?

MM: No, because grouse have, that’s a difference, now when we came here at first grouse were very plentiful, and nobody knows quite why. There are fewer sheep, it’s not the sheep [laughs], they’re blamed for a lot of things. But, when we came here there were about three thousand sheep on Claggan and now there are about two thousand, and there still aren’t grouse, or at least not in any plentitude. Don’t know why that’s happened really. Nobody seems to be able to work it…and they’ve tried various things like medicated grit for the grouse, and shooting more hares, putting dysect on the ewes so that any tick that lands on them drops dead. [45:00] [Slight pause] It hasn’t made much difference. It costs a lot [laughs].

HY: Yeah. I mean, did the shooting bring many people in at certain times of year?

MM: Yes, when the Berrys were here they had their own friends came. They would arrive on a Monday and depart on the Sunday, and there would be a big grouse shoot on the Saturday. This happened from, kind of the middle of August till late in September. People came and shot deer, you know, they’d have…[pause]. I remember one of the Berrys’ friends had gun dogs and I have never seen such beautifully trained dogs, unless Holly [the Felgates’ dog], she’s very well trained. You know where Achomer is, up the road, well he would have, he would leave them sitting at the top corner a way above, about half a mile away, come right on down walking himself and then whistle, and he would whistle for one dog and it would come, go down a little further, whistle for the other and it would come. I was very impressed by this [laughs].

 

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HY: Is quite impressive.

MM: Yes, it was, it was really. I don’t know what else I can tell you.

HY: I’d quite, quite interested in the history of the, the Rural here. ‘Cause you say it was 1971 it was established?

MM: Yes.

HY: How did that come about?

MM: Well, Mrs MacInnes, and it was a thing for great good for the area because as I’ve said a great many of the women didn’t drive [slight pause]. Margaret [Taylor] did, she didn’t go immediately and I won’t tell you why…

HY: Was that Margaret Taylor?

MM: Yes, she’d had a sad loss in her family and…[pause]. Mrs Noble will be one of the originals. We had a meeting I think in the December, and then the first meeting was in January [slight pause], and [laughing] I can’t remember what the first meeting was, which is odd, but if you get hold of the minute book. Can’t remember, I think I was secretary for a little while then, and then the twins arrived so I got a free pardon for a while [laughs]. But you’ll find out from that. I do remember that we had this whist to raise funds for the Rural in the March of nineteen-seven….seventy…that would be in seventy, listen [pause]. It was seventy, the very beginning of seventy-two, sorry, I correct myself, we had the meeting at the end of seventy-one, because it was when the twins were pending. And, we had this, you wouldn’t believe, ten tables, or ten and a half, it was a huge whist for that little school room, and I can remember trying to go round with tea looking like a small hippo, or even quite large hippo because they were born in May. Anyway, that raised a bit of money, I don’t know why we had so many but in these days people came to whists, you know, there’d be people from Killin, people from Acharn. I think everyone’s frightened by that awful road now, to come down at night.

HY: Did they not used to be then?

MM: You know, which is a shame. But, yes, the Rural was a grand thing because it got people together, it got the women together, and there are quite a few people like Joan [MacKenzie] whom I would hardly know if it hadn’t been for the Rural. Met at said market in Killin, but I didn’t really know her, you know.

HY: Joan MacKenize?

MM: Uh huh. And, and that was good.

HY: ‘Cause prior to that did the women get together at all or was it just your neighbours, like you’ve said, going in to…

MM: Neighbours and those of us went to church in Kenmore would see each other there. Now mind you, having said that, I went to church in Kenmore probably about a fortnight after we landed here, and let it be said Mr McVicar who was the minister came up to visit and make us welcome, nobody in the church really spoke to me very much because they thought I was a summer visitor. [HY: Oh, right]. Now that wasn’t a very good reason for not speaking to me but there were lots, at that time, there were lots, you know, the caravan park people, a lot of them came over to church. Now, we still get people from the, the Kenmore Club, from time to time coming over which is good. And I expect there was church once a fortnight was it, in, in the school, [50:00] and the people

 

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from that end would meet then, in an afternoon. But no, there wasn’t anything else, because there wasn’t a Church Guild or anything, well I suppose they could’ve gone from, from Ardeonaig up to Killin, but I don’t think they did. That was the other thing, when I joined the Guild in Kenmore, and at that time I would be thirty-four maybe, there were lots of people my age went to the Guild, it was great, and I got to know all my own age group and old…the older ones down there, which was very nice, because that’s when I really kind of got to know them until I started teaching in the Sunday School, and then there were one or two who became my very good friends and still are.

HY: You say you knew Margaret Taylor. Was that just when you moved here you got to know her?

MM: Well, no, Joe had known Margaret. You see, he began his working career just west of Lix Toll, on a wee farm there, and he used to cycle or walk up to Mid Lix where Margaret was born. Joe thought Margaret’s father was one of the finest people he ever met. I didn’t really know him, I remember seeing him at church in Killin, but I didn’t know him, but I’m sure he was right about that, I think he’d be a person a bit like Joe himself, I’m not sure. Anyway, and the other strange thing is we used to go to Callander from Oban to play hockey, and our hockey/football bus used to pick up a curly-headed wee dark girl at [laughing] Mid Lix road end, I didn’t even know her name, and take her, and we wished we hadn’t taken her because they always beat us. She was good at hockey was Margaret. I wasn’t, but I liked it [laughs], and we used to pick her up there and go on down to Callander, which was fun. I think twice or so we came to Aberfeldy, I remember playing hockey in the sleet in Aberfeldy and freezing just about. But yes, Joe had known, well of course I knew Kenneth [Taylor] because Kenneth went to school in Oban [HY: Oh right, yeah], and was in my class.

HY: Oh, okay, small world

MM: That was odd. I don’t expect we exchanged more than three words when he was there, but I knew who he was, and of course John [Taylor] did too, he was younger. [Slight pause] So when we came here and I joined the Young Farmers naturally enough Kenneth was there, and I got to know him a wee bit more, and then we moved down here, and I got to know Margaret.

HY: I suppose that did help you settling in somewhere [MM: Och, yes, Margaret…] if you already kind of knew people living near you.

MM: Though fairly oddly to begin with, well I was expecting Dan and I didn’t go to the things along at the school very much, until Hamish went to school. [Slight pause] We did a little bit but not, you know, because the, we had these wee ones, I think we were probably coping with coping [laughs]. But yes, Margaret is a good friend [slight pause], another person that I’m very glad I know, yes. Loyal to the nth, not a gossip, yes, a good friend. And another couple who were good friends with us were at Tullich, Anne and Dick Steven came. They are now, Dick Stephen has been Joe’s best buddy since they were about seventeen or eighteen the two of them, which isn’t yesterday, and at the time we got married they were up near Crianlarich and I got to know Anne then, and luckily they don’t seem to mind me, you know, ‘cause sometimes that doesn’t always work, you know, but it did and we were friends [slight pause], and Anne is a very, a very good friend, yes. [Slight pause] They live in Killin now. And [pause], yes I suppose we didn’t [door opens and Joe says hello], switch off [speaking to Joe] I’ll be through in a minute [door closes]. I don’t think we visited each other’s houses very much, we did visit Dall and Dall visited us, and [55:00] the ones at Tullich did, but we always knew we were there. Christian MacNaughton, it was a standing joke, the only thing she ever borrowed from me was on…was onions [laughing], I don’t know why but she would run out of onions and, and she would phone, “You know what I’m after”, you know. She was great fun and I took her to the, to the WRI and, yes, many a time we’d prac…I’d practically go off the road laughing at some ploys of hers. One of her really good ploys was to come to the Rural, I didn’t know she was going to do this,

 

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at the teatime she went away out and came back in and nobody recognised her wearing a blonde wig. Well, I don’t know why she did this, but it was hilarious because everyone was kind of looking and [slight pause] somebody said, “It’s nice you’ve been able to join us” sort of style [laughing], and then all of a sudden we realised who it was. It was hilarious, that was really good fun, and that was the kind of sense of humour, she had a batty sense of humour. [Pause] Yes.

HY: So you’ve, you’ve been involved in the Community Association as well.

MM: Yes.

HY: Did that, did that sort of just take on stuff that was already happening ‘cause that was only in the eighties wasn’t it?

MM: Yes, kind of, I think that’s right. The, the other big thing for the children was the outing, the, the summer, the, you know the one in June. They looked forward, our children looked forward to that enormously. We did go forth of Ardtalnaig from time to time, we went over to visit my mother and my sisters and so on in Argyll, but, and down to Port of Menteith to visit the other Granny and Grandpa and uncles and aunts down there, but because Joe was always pretty busy we didn’t, we didn’t, you know, probably didn’t go around nearly as much as you do for example. But, so that outing was a great treat, we always went somewhere that we’d never been before, quite often Joe and I hadn’t been, everywhere from the zoo in Edinburgh which we had been to of course, and Stirling Castle also, Wallace Monument, all sort of places like that, St Andrews, I’d never been to St Andrews till we went, just as it happened. That’s, your folk are over that way aren’t they?

HY: Graeme’s mum and dad were there for a few years, yeah.

MM: That’s right, uh huh. A lovely place to visit if, you know, though I can’t quite get my head round the, the North Sea with no islands in it. [Laughing] If you belong to Oban, sea should have islands in, yes. Isn’t that an odd thing to think, but you know what I mean? [HY: Yeah, yeah] Yes. Ah, I think that’s me just about run out.

HY: The other question had for you, do you remember when the council boundary changed? Did that kind of impact you at all? You know when they kind of changed from Perthshire…

MM: Yes, I was quite annoyed that I had to apply to Stirling instead of Perth when I wanted to go back to teach [laughs]. That’s silly. When did that happen?

HY: About seventy-five.

MM: Yes, it must have happened just after Hamish went to school then. [Pause] It didn’t hugely impinge on our lives I don’t think. [Slight pause] Because you see, what services did we get? Not many. The bin team, [laughing] we always called it the bean tin lorry came to the end of the road, that was about the only tins we had, and actually we only put a bag down once in a blue moon because everything else went into the Rayburn, got burned, I mean you never put egg shells into, wouldn’t have dreamt of it. [Slight pause] The one thing I was going to tell you about in case nobody else does, maybe Mervyn [Browne] did. There was a firm, a grocery firm, they had a, a drapers too, in Aberfeldy, they used to run a van out on a Saturday. You could phone on a Friday and give your order, and a big cardboard box came with everything in. If you were needing something from the chemist you mentioned it politely and they would zoom across and get it, and Maurice, who had the butchers in the square, where the flower shop is now, they would bring something up, you know, if you were needing, that was. We didn’t use that much once we got a deep freeze, which we didn’t, we didn’t have a fridge till 1976, we did have a freezer. We got the freezer later the year Dan was born, or the next summer. He was born in December, we got it the next summer, 1970. [1:00:00]

 

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And that was a boon beyond anything. I didn’t need, well we had two wee boys, it meant you didn’t have to trail to Aberfeldy, you know, nearly as often. I would go, and if I had a five pound note that was enough to buy all the extra things. [HY: Wow]. That seems like a different life, and so it was. But this, this business of McKercher and MacNaughton delivering was a great help. I, it was the forerunner of Asda [laughs].

HY: Yeah, when did they deliver till? When did they stop doing that though?

MM: [Pause] Gosh, can’t remember. They were still doing it [pause], I wonder would Joe remember, doubt it. You know, that’s the kind of thing you ought to write down and I didn’t.

HY: But it’s a fair while ago is it?

MM: It’s a long time ago, quite a long time. I would think it probably kept going till about 1980 [pause].

HY: Yeah.

MM: I mean at that time my children were older and life was easier, I , well they were all at school, so I could go while they were at school.

HY: And you were mobile anyway weren’t you.

MM: And I, I was mobile, I was lucky, yes. And I used to take Mrs MacDonald shopping quite often after Archie died.

HY: And did, did the post bus come here to?

MM: Yes, the post bus used to come down, and I can remember taking it, you know, if, if the van was in for an MOT or whatever, you’d get the post van back home and get it up again a day, two days later depending what state of the…

HY: Would that be into Killin or Aberfeldy?

MM: Yes Killin usually. MacGregor’s garage in Killin originally, that’s Bunty MacGregor’s husband. And that was very handy. I didn’t use it all that often I have to say, you know, but I did occasionally, it was handy for that.

HY: I suppose for people without their own transport it must have been great.

MM: For people without their own, people like Miss Fisher and so on, it was brilliant, yes. And originally it came back on the same day [HY: Right], it’s always handy to get home if you go away.

HY: Yeah, Why, did it change after that where you could only get [MM: Yes] one way?

MM: You could only go one way which wasn’t very convenient [HY laughs]. Ian McGregor was on it [slight pause], for quite a long time.

HY: And the only other thing I wanted to pick up on, just from one of your earlier comments about your boys swimming in the, in the gorge or whatever, did they ever swim in the loch and stuff like that?

MM: [Emphatically] No.

HY: So you steered clear?

 

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MM: I was scared of the loch, they did not swim in the loch [HY: No]. They didn’t even paddle in the loch, I just, the loch was too big, and you see…

HY: Was that just your general feeling about it, yeah?

MM: Yes it was my feeling, you know, it goes out just a little bit. We didn’t ever even go down to the beach in Kenmore, which looking back now seems a bit off because it would have been much warmer than the burn. I think probably I was quite busy Helen, you know, people to feed.

HY: Oh yeah, I mean you were quite a way up as well weren’t you, away from it.

MM: And, away from the loch, and, you know, to trail down to Kenmore was, well you did that for church [laughs].

HY: And when the boys got older, they didn’t go off on adventures and…

MM: Oh they did

HY: Did you tell them to steer clear?

MM: They didn’t, the loch didn’t really particularly interest them. They fished in the burn [HY: Yeah], and when I think of it, they, Hamish particularly used to go and, cutting shanks for sticks and all sorts of things like that, on his own, he didn’t get to go when he was, you know, under twelve if the burn was high, that didn’t seem sensible. But he used to go down and come back and say, “You know I managed to make a tree creeper whistle back to me.” He was very interested in birds, still is, and, you know, he could, he managed to make the same sound and, and he was very intrigued by this.

HY: So did anybody really go out on the loch locally? Like fishing or anything

MM: Bob MacNaughton used to go out, actually more killing hooded crows [HY: Oh right] along, ‘cause it was easier to see where their nests were along. He didn’t [slight pause], the Berrys didn’t use the loch at all really, though they had a rather nice sailing boat they didn’t go out a lot. [Pause] And there still is, we still have rights on the loch for fishing and there’s a fishing boat and another kind of cruiser thing that’s only out from April to [1:05:00] end of, I think it’s end of October it’s insured for being on the loch. [Pause] I mean, I wasn’t really frightened of, of water because I can remember rowing my sisters across from Oban to Kerrera in a very small boat, and it blew up, but my middle sister was petrified, poor lass. I remember her sitting, tears running down her face, coming back across from, from Kerrera which is probably about a mile, I’d probably be about fourteen at the time, fifteen maybe. But no, the [slight pause], the loch didn’t draw them. Yes, they had wonderful times at home, I remember Hamish saying to me not that long ago, “You know”, he said, “I knew every stone and every tree within a mile of Achomer, and probably a lot further.” He loved Claggan, and so does Joe, particularly of them. I think they all did, but yes they had great [slight pause] ploys. And, from the time Hamish was about four, I would allow him to walk from Achomer up to the farm if I knew Joe was definitely there, but he had to stop at what we called the ‘waving corner’, it’s still called that, just up, what I was going to do if he didn’t arrive at the ‘waving corner’ that’s different, but he always did, and he would wave and I would wave from the kitchen window and on he would go, and he would have instructions not to look over the ridge. Was that scary or was it not? There you go. But he always got, they were, they were quite sensible, you know, because the, the dangers had been explained to them. [Pause]

HY: Did they all go to school in Aberfeldy?

MM: Yes.

 

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HY: I see.

MM: They did.

HY: And the last question I had for you really was, would you consider yourself a local now? I know people seem to use the term, well they’re not indigenous but [MM: Och, yes, I suppose so] locals, you live a certain length of time somewhere.

MM: I think, uh huh, the fact, yes I belong here probably more than I belong in Argyll now, though I love Argyll, and I know Joe would say, I think, the same about Port of Menteith. Joe loves Claggan, it, and even I know quite a lot of stones and trees. I consider myself one of the very lucky people, very fortunate, first of all I married Joe, but [laughs] secondly to be here, it’s a beautiful place to stay, it’s a wonderful place to bring the children up, and three of our boys are doing something [clock chimes] very like their dad. One at Castles, at Dalmally, Cruachan’s one of his bits [HY: Oh right], so he’ll be fine there as long as he’s fit. Joe here, and Hamish is over in West Glenalmond, looking after two smaller hill farms, and that’s a lovely glen, sometime when you want to have a picnic that’s not just right next door. It’s, you know you go over to Crieff and there’s a, a bend at a bridge, used to be loos just down beside them [HY: Oh right, yeah I think I do]. Well they turn off to the right, just on the Aberfeldy side of that bridge, and there’s three miles up that glen [HY: Wow]. It’s a lovely place.

HY: It’s quite beautiful down there isn’t it.

MM: It is beautiful. I, yes, I think it’s a lovely place to stay, I think they’re very…and luckily my daughter-in-law thinks that, and she belongs to Dalmally actually, but they’ve been there eight years now, or thereby, yes.

HY: Do you think your kids miss here at all, or are they kind of…?

MM: Oh, I think they like coming back, as you would note from my date of birth, I had a special birthday at the beginning of October and they all came, the birthday was actually on a Monday, but they all came on the Sunday. Anne had organised her sisters-in-law to make, all three of them did the cooking for that day, “Just you do the dusting Mum.” She knows I’m less keen on dusting than cooking, but that’s beside the point, I did what I was told, and we had a lovely day. It was wet in the morning and I said to Joe, “I’m going to pretend it’s, the sun’s shining”, and do you know by the afternoon it was, and we walked, grandchildren, everybody, along, fed the hens here and went away on up [1:10:00] to see the dogs, and it was lovely, it was just a nice thing to do, you know. And Robert, who’s the middle one, in Dalmally, and a bit of a, likes to be thought cool, his older brother doesn’t care or not nearly so much, hand-in-hand with his wee cousin from across here, who’s three and a half, and the two of them blethering away to each other, I wasn’t near enough to hear what they were talking about but I didn’t really mind, I thought, “How good”, you know. And it was great, they were all there, and [slight pause] though the boys, it’s a very busy time of year September/October, though they were all going to be very busy the next day because there was a big sale in Stirling, they were there acting as if they didn’t mind being dragged away from home for the day [laughs]. That was nice. It was good.

HY: Oh, that’s great. Well Margaret, it’s been wonderful talking to you, thank you very much for that.

MM: I don’t, I hope I’ve, I hope I haven’t missed out people

HY: No, it’s been wonderful, thank you.

[Recording ends]

 

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Appendix 3: Oral history transcripts

3.6 Philip Simpson

Name of interviewee: Philip Simpson (PS)

Gender: Male

Date of birth: 1st June 1956

Place of birth: Carlisle, England

Date of interview: Wednesday 26th October, 2011

Name of interviewer: Helen Louise Young (HY)

Audio length: 1 hour 18 minutes 56 seconds. Five minute time markers are given in [ ].

HY: Okay, so if you just confirm you name, date of birth and place of birth for me.

PS: Philip Simpson, born 1st of June 1956 in Carlisle.

HY: Brilliant, thank you. So when did you move to Lochtayside?

PS: In February 1984.

HY: And what was the reason for that?

PS: We came because we’d been invited to open the Abernethy Trust outdoor centre in Brae Lodge, and so we did.

HY: So did you move to Ardeonaig then, that was where you lived?

PS: We moved to Ardeonaig, we lived in Brae Lodge in the main, what’s now the main centre for five years, and the centre was very small, and the staff was small, the, everything was, we were all novices. And Rosemary and I came together and we grew with the, with the centre. [Slight pause] We lived in Ardeonaig for nineteen years, firstly in the centre, then for a year in Upper Bealloch while Inneach was being built, and we lived in Inneach for thirteen years before coming to live in Ardtalnaig. We’ve been here for [slight pause] eight, amazing.

HY: So what was your kind of impression of the area when you first came?

PS: A rural backwater. [Slight pause] A very rural backwater where ideas of outdoor education, outdoor learning or doing adventure activities appeared to be [slight pause] something completely new to all the natives. [Clears throat] And we inherited at Brae Lodge, Brae Lodge was a gift to Abernethy Trust from Barry and Isobel Barratt, and they had been, well certainly very philanthropic. But, when they came, when they came to Brae Lodge to retire when Barry was fifty they ran children’s holidays in the, what’s now the main centre. So they lived in the front part, the original lodge, and in the [mobile phone rings] back half of the lodge [pause] in the back half of the lodge where there was two houses, one was a housekeeper’s house and one was a cook’s house, they ran children’s holidays for six weeks every summer with some children referred from the social work departments, staffed by students from Jordanhill College. And I think those youngsters ran riot, and

 

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didn’t do anything in the community at all. So by the time we arrived there was already a resistance to an outdoor centre opening, actually there was a huge resistance to an outdoor centre opening. [Slight pause] Partly for those reasons that [mobile phone message alert rings] they thought they’d have such children running round scaring the sheep and annoying the neighbours all year instead of just for six weeks in the summer. Although there were other reasons for resistance as well, from the immediate neighbours, who might have liked to have bought Brae Lodge, couldn’t afford to buy it, and then found Barry gave it away. So that was no help. And the [laughs] the other small thing was that the neighbours John and Helen Taylor, they thought they owned the centre’s road, and Barry would have liked to have repaired it, and it was in very, very poor condition, [slight pause] worse than it’s been even recently, and it was difficult to get minibuses up. And Barry couldn’t repair it because it was John’s road, and [slight pause] and John wouldn’t repair it. So when Abernethy Trust arrived and took over and our lawyers discovered that we owned the road, that was already against a background of them not wanting someone running adventure holidays and they lost their road and some of their property. Land’s very important. [Clears throat] So it didn’t go down very well at all. And the following year it was compounded by the owner of West Brae cottage approaching us and saying he wanted to sell West Brae cottage and didn’t want to sell it to John and would we buy it, and so we did and John just saw all his influence ebbing away. So all that was difficult, very difficult, and [slight pause] the people who were then at the hotel, Mr and the Honourable Mrs Russell, [slight pause] they obviously new John a lot better than we did and he was often in the hotel. They were doing all they could to stop us driving groups of children down to the lochside, and [slight pause] for five years or more there was, there was a lot of resistance, it was a very difficult time.

HY: And you, you always had a right of way did you, the Centre down to the lochside? [PS: Uh huh, uh huh] That was established?

PS: The right of way goes - oh it was well-established, yeah and in fact subsequent owners at the hotel, we’re on the seven owners we’ve seen there now, various owners have tried to deny us that right of access, [slight pause] and, unsuccessfully tried. And so we’ve had face-offs with different sets of owners there are well. [5:00]

HY: So despite the resistance, the broader community, what was your feeling about that? Did you…

PS: Well it was very difficult to, to be part of that broader community because our main interface with it was with people who didn’t want us to be there. And therefore, and getting beyond that broader community who undoubtedly knew of our difficulties, and knew how, I’d later learn, how difficult those people were anyway with everybody, it was [pause] I suppose it meant we didn’t really, it took us a long time to integrate in the wider community. A very long time, even though Rosemary would go to the Rural, there was, everybody knew there was this, it was all very stilted because of the, [slight pause] the resistance they knew we were feeling, and because we were new people doing something new. I think that was, that was it as well, totally new concepts of outdoor education and learning, and children’s holidays, and adventure activities, and going in the loch, [mimicking] “it’s a dangerous loch that you know, and a plane crashed there.” Did you know that? [HY shakes head]. A plane crashed there in, probably in the early seventies. It was Mary Sandeman’s brother died, in Dall Bay, [mimicking] “so we know it’s a dangerous loch.” So, any suggestion that actually it’s not the loch that’s dangerous, it’s what you do on it that might be dangerous - we were clearly fool-hardy. And we were English, and, although to be, no, to be fair, that’s not fair, nobody’s ever raised that with me ever, at all. But it was all different. And we were Christians, blatantly saying we’re a Christian outdoor centre. And I know that different lots of shepherds who have gone through Brae Farm, some of them have been met with [slight pause] litanies of what difficult people we are, and I am particularly – [jokingly] blatantly true. And, [laughs] and some of those folks we’re still friends with, who have gone away in different parts of the country, and at least one family is a fine Christian family

 

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and they, they just tell us what they were met with, [mimicking] “have nothing to do with those people at the centre.” We were some strange, weird cult. It was really, really difficult, and actually if it wasn’t for this conversation, for this research, probably I wouldn’t be talking about it because people coming in now don’t need to know all that. They don’t need to know [slight pause] any of it really. And if they did, they’d never understand it, it’s like a five-year-old now understanding the First World War, you know. And, although [wry laugh] even two chief instructors ago, who got on very well with the next generation of the farmers, got on very well with Neil and Eilidh, Steve often said to me, “What’s the problem with John? He seems nice enough.” I said, “Yeah, yeah, he does, if you go and have, have a few whiskeys with him in the hotel bar he’ll seem nice enough as well.” Because, ‘cause I never went, the hotel bar was the place for meeting people and socialising, for the men anyway [gives masculine grunt]. As a matter of principle I wouldn’t go there because there was no way I wanted to go and spend an evening sitting in a pub with somebody who hated me and was doing all he could to obstruct my being there. And that was the hotel owners and our farmer neighbour, so [slight pause] so there was another obstacle there to integration.

HY: So looking at other people, you say a lot of them would go to, the men, to the pub?

PS: Oh absolutely.

HY: Were there other ways that they kinda socialised or had community events?

PS: The Community Association as it is now [pause] didn’t exist then. Hmm, there must have been [slight pause], there were events. The events we have now as the Community Association were all happening then, but they were organised, I think they were organised slightly differently. I’m not very sure, but there was always a Christmas party, there was always whist, there used to be a ceilidh in the school around March/April time [slight pause], but it wasn’t a dancing ceilidh, it was where people came and sang, and did [slight pause] entertainment. It used to go on all night, you had to leave coffee time, at teatime, at about half past ten or you’d be there [laughs] for a long time. So there were things happening, and there was the indoor bowling, that was always going on. So, there were places where people met, but for the women it was the Rural, and that helped Rosemary a lot. [Slight pause] But for the men, if they didn’t go to the bar it wasn’t very easy.

HY: That’s interesting.

PS: Yeah, and I think alcoholism has been quite a problem round here, for that reason. Yep, [with emphasis] huge [10:00] amounts of money were spent in the hotel bar. There was a, a hotelier, Steve Brown, with whom we’re still friends, but such good friends we never meet, and I’d said to him one day, “I haven’t seen John for weeks”, and Steve was astonished because he saw him every day, mostly twice a day [laughs], more often sometimes. So yes, I was well out of that loop, none of that helped at all. And, it didn’t bother me, I was working [slight pause], I was working extremely hard and long, and in the first summer Rosemary was threatening to give birth to Roger prematurely, she spent two or three months in hospital. So that was all very taxing, I had no time for any neighbours, I had just enough time to do what I was doing so, in that sense, it didn’t really matter too much. [Pause] But we do remember those five years being, well even in Upper Bealloch it wasn’t too easy, but very challenging, yeah.

HY: And do you, as an ‘incomer’, do you feel more part of [PS: Yeah, yeah] the area now?

PS: Oh, absol…yeah, this, this is now home there’s no doubt. We used to talk, Rosemary used to talk about whether, whether we’d think of this of being home ever. And probably, [slight pause] probably once we’d passed the fifteen year mark [laughs] we started to think, “Ah, you know we’re

 

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much more integrated here”, and [slight pause] we had John and Helen in some sort of order by then.

HY: Would you consider yourselves locals now?

PS: [Pauses then laughs] Hmm…

HY: Not quite there?

PS: Probably [HY: Probably], probably yeah. We’re certainly, we’ve certainly seen a lot of people come in and out of the area while we’ve been here. And I now know when I see other people come in with bright ideas, and think we’ll do this, we’ll change that, I think, “Yeah, that’s what folk thought about us, let’s see where this goes, when we arrived.” And so having a long history here now, if twenty-eight years is long, you know I think it gives us credibility so, yeah, no this is, we’re part of this really.

HY: Do you think it’s that longevity that gives you the credibility then yeah? Do you think locals respect you more if you’ve come and you’ve lived and you’ve done? And…

PS: Well, I think so. I think I would claim some integrity in it as well, so we’ve, we’ve done what we’ve said and we’ve said what we’ve done. And you know we haven’t dipped in and tried to change things. I understand Barry had a, Barry Barratt, had a slightly difficult reception here in some ways because Barry is a huge ideas man, with huge financial resources behind him, and he would just do things, nothing was a problem. So television reception in the area was a nightmare for years, there wasn’t any, and Barry said, “Oh, we can sort that”, and sorted it. Put a mast up across the loch, [HY: Oh right] arranged for – this was before Sky – signals to go across to Ardeonaig and tried to get everyone to pay, and some would pay and some wouldn’t pay. But some of the ones that wouldn’t pay still put their own aerials up to catch the signal. And, I think Barry just, he brought his can-do business approach to it which was really quite [slight pause], it was quite different to what they’d previously had in a sleepy hollow where, [mimicking] “Well yeah, we’ll get round to doing that sometime.” You know, “It’s always been like this, why should we change it?” The television thing was quite a saga, [laughs] it went on for years [laughs].

HY: So it was quite late wasn’t it when they finally accessed television here, I remember Mervyn saying.

PS: Oh, yeah.

HY: It was very late on.

PS: Very late, oh, yes, the sixties I would guess, and maybe, even when we came in the eighties it was appalling signal. There was a mast across there at Duallin that was projected across to Ardeonaig and people, there was a subscription that people had to or hadn’t paid of course. But, and Barry had sorted it and I think that didn’t, Barry and Isobel were part of the community [slight pause] but only in the way the laird is up the hill. Isobel is an angel, she was, she worked hard, she was part of it but only in the way that somebody who isn’t quite one of the people is regarded. And I think part of Barry’s, if there were problems with Barry it would have been because he was bringing a different culture to it and it didn’t integrate very well. [Pause] Barry and Isobel are fine folk, we like them and we see them a couple of times a year, and I won’t hear anything wrong about them but, yet they were different from the farming community here. And when I describe it as a backwater, and some would say it’s a backwater [15:00] now, I don’t think it is you know, [laughs] that’s against a background of some of the next generation already having travelled quite widely. So the family from Dall had, had been to university and been away. [Pause] Yeah, folk had been, been round the world

 

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but I think even, even Eilidh, and I’m aware I’ve just signed a thing to say this can be used, I’d be happy to say this, and even Eilidh who went to Stirling University and then went to Australia for a year and did a world tour and all those things. I think because she was coming back to the, a culture where she was raised and went to school and all those things in Ardeonaig, you know having studied conservation or something at Stirling, it had no apparent impact on, on the farm. I think it is now actually, I think they are doing things. And I just thought, “Hmm, it’s very hard to change your parents, and to change those things and to”, if university broadens the mind, and I hope it does, and gives learning and insight, the next, not just Eilidh, but the next generation seem to leave all those things at the end of the loch, and come down the lochside, and it was the way it’s always been. It is a fascinating social study, yeah, I would think, and I try not to bring my stereotypes and prejudices to bear on it as I’m looking at it all going on and thinking, “Well, okay, I’m becoming part of that, now, yeah” [laughs].

HY: It’s interesting you say you don’t consider it a backwater any more. Why would you…what would you say is different than when you moved here that makes it, is it just the way you feel do you think or is it something actual, some kind of actual physical reality that means it’s not?

PS: Well, no I don’t think there’s any physical realities, but I think [pause] I think there’s more reception, or more receptiveness to other ideas [slight pause]. There’s, people are travelling more, so they go from Ardeonaig and Ardtalnaig, and they, they go a long way on holidays or on working trips or something. The farming community as well, they go sheep-shearing in, in New Zealand for half the year some of them. It’s just amazing what’s going on. And that, and I think, and I hope that Abernethy Trust’s contribution has been to say well actually the loch itself isn’t, it’s not dangerous per se, and that, and taking people canoeing and climbing are normal things, they just haven’t been normal on the lochside before. So I think, I think there’s more fertilisation of ideas and people and attitudes, I think that makes it not a backwater. [Slight pause] But when you look at some of the farms you think, “Well I know why they do that, they’ve been doing because they’ve been doing it for hundreds of years.” So, [laughing] in some senses it probably is a backwater still.

HY: It’s interesting what you said about their attitude to the loch because I, I would have thought there’d be a closer relationship with the loch somewhere like this. But my impression already is, not necessary, you know, they live their lives almost completely separate from it now which wouldn’t have been the case a hundred years ago…

PS: No it wouldn’t.

HY: …when they had the ferries across, and fishing and stuff.

PS: There is the fishing fraternity, based in Killin, well both ends of the loch. But the lochside natives don’t fish. Now the lochside natives are the farmers, really, the Taylors have been here since the thirties [slight pause]. Before them, the real indigenous people were, the last of the people was Nelly Fisher, who was the last person to be buried in the cemetery. And…and she’d been away, she’d been, what’d she been in, diplomatic service or teaching, I think diplomacy somewhere. These folk don’t fish, they don’t do country sports actually, whether it’s fishing or whether it’s [slight pause] or whether it’s hunting, shooting, or hill-walking. Most of the time they’re busy working, I think that’s what it comes down to. Now at the ends of the loch, in Killin there’s a very strong angling club, and that’s a mix of indigenous people and incomers, and they’re very keen, very keen. So, [slight pause] don’t know how we started down that line…ah, the relationship with the loch. Yes, so I don’t think there is a relationship with the loch except it’s there and isn’t it nice. It’s surprising, I look at it every day and I’ve got a lot of time spent in the Lake District. The Lake District’s biggest lake is Windermere, [20:00] it’s twelve miles long and it’s covered in boats. Most days we look at the loch

 

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and we don’t see another boat on it, don’t see anything on it. Always amazes me. Although there are an increasing number of canoes go down. There was two went down yesterday, I was sitting at my desk, looking out of the window daydreaming, “oh another boat.”

HY: I know, it’s very different to imagine, like, back in the kind of early part of the century when there was the steamer zigzagging it’s way up and down twice a day [laughs].

PS: Well I met some people when I was instructing canoeing down at our beach at Ardeonaig, some people were pottering around one day and they said – this was early days of centre life, maybe late eighties - and they said, “Last time I was here I came on the steamer.” And they, I looked at them and they didn’t seem to be that old [laughs], you know [HY: No]. And different generations of hoteliers have done more and more damage to the physical history down there [slight pause]. But, until relatively recently, it would seem to me, you could still see where the railway line, the bogeys were that went down to the pier to bring the coal off.

HY: Okay.

PS: Where the black shed is now there was an old bogey there with railway wheels on it, might even still be there. For a long time it was there, and it’s because of, because of that some would say, and they’re probably right, there’s still a public right of access down to the hotel, down to the beach behind the hotel. Now I, I don’t get involved in that because we’ve got our own right of access and it’s just a little fight I don’t have to have [laughs]. But they’re probably right, I’m sure there is a right of access there. And, I think, despite what our neighbours in Ardtalnaig say, there’s a public right of access at, in Ardtalnaig as well.

HY: Down to the loch here?

PS: Down to the old quay in Ardtalnaig. Only because when you look at the Perth and Kinross roads department website it tells you which roads they’re responsible for and it describes an unnamed road down there [laughs]. And if there’s right of access for the steamer then you can’t take those rights away, you just forget about them.

HY: I’m quite interested as well in the relationship between Ardeonaig and Ardtalnaig. As someone who’s lived in both how do the two settlements compare and how do you think they relate to each other?

PS: [Pause] Well, [slight pause] I think probably Ardeonaig is more of a community than Ardtalnaig. Now they are artificially separated by the council boundary line, which is akin to the colonials drawing straight lines on maps in Africa, it’s just crazy. But, and maybe it’s ‘cause the hotel is there, and maybe it’s because the school room is there where social activities have been held for hundreds of years [clears throat]. And maybe it’s because there are fewer people, or there have been fewer people living permanently in Ardtalnaig [slight pause]. But I detect that little pendulum swinging, maybe there’s more people coming to live in Ardtalnaig now who are active in the community. There’s us, there’s Mervyn to an extent but only to an extent ‘cause of the farming community and longevity, Joe and Margaret have moved down the hill and that’s quite significant for them and for everybody else because now people see them. We know there’s not just hermits up there.

HY: That’s Joe and Margaret McLauglin.

PS: [Speaking over] Joe and Margaret McLauglin. And then the Fox-Pitts at Kindrochit who are clearly there permanently, and [slight pause] are integrating into the local community. I detect they’re still on the fringe, especially as David’s doing such bizarre things [laughs], whereas Jo is, she’s far more integrated.

 

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HY: So the council boundary’s a very interesting one, I think, ‘cause it was only the seventies wasn’t it, the mid-seventies?

PS: Seventy-two, seventy-three or four I think.

HY: In terms of, ‘cause both your children went to Ardeonaig Primary did they?

PS: No, went to Killin.

HY: Oh Killin, that’s right because Ardeonaig had shut.

PS: Yeah, and people were saying to us, “what a shame Roger’s not a little bit older”, because if he’d gone to the school it might have stayed open.

HY: Oh right.

PS: And we were thinking, “thank goodness, the school’s closing in time so he gets some socialisation elsewhere.”

HY: And you were in Ardeonaig at the time so they went to Killin, but for High School they then went to Aberfeldy?

PS: We made a parental selection or whatever they call it to go to Aberfeldy. That caused a fuss as well. Sometimes living on the boundaries, you have to fight at every, everywhere you look. And so historically all high school people here, [25:00] from the lochside, had gone to school in Aberfeldy. And that continued right up until Donna MacKenzie and Gillian Noble, they went to Aberfeldy and the school transport ran them back and forwards. And then there was a gap between them stopping, so there’s no children going to school, to high school for a while until ours started by which time everyone forgot, ‘cause short-termism with councils, forgot that Ardeonaig children went to school in Aberfeldy. So we made a parental request, and we had lots of meetings about how they’re going to get there, and I said “well” – because if, if they go out of the council, the council don’t pay for the transport – I said, “well, I don’t figure that because you’re not paying for anybody to go to Callander, you would be paying there, it’d be less to go to Aberfeldy.” So eventually they put a contract out to tender, and the children were taken to school. They made it very clear they would only do that as long as they weren’t paying for somebody to go to McLaren, and so they paid for transport until [slight pause] Roger was in third or fourth year. And the trigger for not paying any more was when Lisa Hancock went to school at McLaren, she was the next high school girl and she went to McLaren. And then they all went to McLaren, and following on from that the next person was probably, oh no the next trigger was Donald Taylor who in primary school went to the special needs unit in Callander, and was taxied down there from age seven or something. And so when he, when he was going to school down there it made sense for the next lot, the next Taylor people to go to McLaren and so that’s what, that’s what now happens. I said to the little man, who came to argue the toss with me about whether Roger and Louise should go to Aberfeldy, he said, “we’ve only got the best interests of the children at heart.” And I said, “well that’s blatantly not true”, I said, “at the simplest level what you’re saying to me is that an eleven-year-old should leave home at half past seven in the morning to go to school in Callander, or leave home at ten past eight. Do you tell me, if you’ve got the best interests at heart what happens there.” “Ah, but it’s a different council.” I said, “you’ve got”, I said, “you’re into empire building, you’ve put the fences up. You people in council should be talking to each other and working out what’s best for children and you’re not doing that so it’s not true that you’ve got the best interests at heart.” [Laughs].

HY: Do you see it in other areas too, other services?

 

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PS: Yeah, I see it in [slight pause] refuse collection, that one council, Perth and Kinross Council has got a huge rural hint…it’s a rural council, so it’s not even a rural hinterland, it is a rural council so they look after the rural areas. So refuse collection seems to be sensible and joined-up thinking, road repair seems to be. Stirling Council, they may deny it, they sometimes talk about something known as rural Stirling, but there’s no doubt they’ve got an urban focus. They, Stirling Council don’t even know when it comes to the planning department that they’re responsible for Ardeonaig because so much of the area’s in the national park. [Mimincking] “Ah, Killin, is it near Killin? Oh, it’s in the National Park.” “No, Ardeonaig’s not in the National Park.” You have to travel through the National Park to get to this little rump of Stirling Council area. I just can’t believe that people who are making decisions, and are in positions of, highly-paid positions of responsibility are so incompetent. [Laughs] And it’s quite interesting what, what the, what people, what people do think. So we all have in our address as Perthshire, and that always makes me smile. I was buying something on the Internet yesterday and my address came up as Perth and Kinross. Perth and Kinross is not a postal address. If you buy it on the other side, in FK it comes up as Falkirk or Stirling. Stirling’s not a postal address round here, Perthshire is.

HY: I’ve even seen Stirlingshire, which is a complete creation.

PS: Yeah, well Stirlingshire used to exist [HY: Yeah] but Kilsyth [HY: Yeah] down, the mining areas. So this part of, this part of the country, pre, I think it was 1974, pre the 1974 council reorganisation was West Perthshire, it was Perthshire. And I understand there was a lot of lobbying went on, nobody wanted to lose Perthshire, that was a fine historical county, so they managed to get it retained as a postal address with the Post Office. So when somebody says [30:00] anything about Perthshire we have it in the postal address and it gives an indication of where you are, but Perthshire doesn’t exist [laughs]. It makes me laugh.

HY: I think even in Killin, people relate to Perthshire.

PS: Yeah, yeah and Perth….yeah and it was Perthshire. Tyndrum was Perthshire [HY: Yeah]. So when we had the next council reorganisation - in ninety-five was it? – when they went from two tiers of councils to single unitary councils, there was a lot of fuss then about what Stirling Council area would be called. And some were suggesting Stirling and West Perthshire. Went on for ages, and eventually it became Stirling. I heard on the news last night that the, the planning permission for the gold mine at Tyndrum, at Tyndrum in Stirling, [pause] there’s no affinity between this part of West Perthshire and Stirling, in either direction.

HY: Yeah, it’s quite interesting you say that ‘cause I remember kinda talking to Mervyn and he was saying that traditionally Ardtalnaig faced Perth [PS: Hmm] and Ardeonaig faced Stirling [PS: Uh hu]. And his impression was that that had always been, since he moved anyway, that had always been kind of the case. So you don’t sense that in the same way?

PS: Well I think because services, council services and may…umm…are in Stirling, Killin people go to Stirling far more than they go to Perth [HY: Yep], there’s no doubt about that. Although, a surprising number go via, along Lochearnside to Perth which I would never do. And so [slight pause] maybe there’s some element of truth in that, but I think it’s been underlined by the council and the hospital services, Forth Valley Health Board. [Expressing amazement] Forth Valley Health Board in Killin? But, but certainly living in Ardeonaig [slight pause], yeah I would, I would almost always go to Perth. And living in Ardtalnaig now, I always do go to Perth [HY: Yeah]. It’s almost equidistant, but Perth’s more accessible from here, it’s handier. And, we used to oscillate between which one we went to if we had to go shopping or do something, it didn’t, in some ways it didn’t matter. And then when they were building the Marches in the nineties, the mid-nineties, you couldn’t get a park anywhere in Stirling, it

 

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was just terrible, I just stopped going altogether. And I’ve never sort of got used to going back to Stirling since, although I do sometimes.

HY: Do you have an impression of where others go?

PS: Yeah, when you live…

HY: [Laughing] When you live here you can see them go past.

PS: …when you live in Ardtalnaig, when you live in Ardtalnaig a lot of folk, Ardtalnaig focus is much more on Aberfeldy. There’s no doubt. And Ardeonaig focuses on Killin [HY: Yeah]. And it seems to change at the council boundary [HY: Yeah], but I’m sure that’s just incidental, it’s to do with distance and Ardeonaig’s seven miles from Killin whereas Ardtalnaig is ten miles from Killin, but from Ardtalnaig to Aberfeldy’s only twelve so, and the road…

HY: Yeah, it probably takes the same time.

PS: …and the road is better. [HY: Yeah] Perth and Kinross looks after the rural roads far better. So [slight pause] I do think it’s interesting, I think the whole thing that we’ve got Ardeonaig and Ardtalnaig Community Association crossing the council boundary is a huge anomaly to people. They can’t, the folk in the offices can’t understand it, it makes sense when you live here, that these two communities do things together. So when the then Central Region Council sold the school in Ardeonaig to the feu superior, who turned out to be John Taylor who didn’t know he was the feu superior…

HY: What does feu superior mean?

PS: They held the feu, they held ancient rights over the, the land [HY: Right]. And lots of land and houses – we had a house in Aberfeldy, we had a feu superior who lived in Greenock somewhere, he, they just bought, somebody bought all the feus up in Killin years ago thinking they’ll get a bit of income off there. Often had to pay the feu superior a hundred pounds a year. But there was an Act in nine…[correct self] twenty-o-four [2004], the Abolition of Feu Holds Land [HY: Okay, they got rid of that], so it’s all disappeared now, it’s gone, a good thing too. And, but however, on the back of that when the Council sold the school they’d apparently approached the Breadalbanes, the family of Taymouth Castle or somebody, the Marquis of Breadalbane, “we think you’ve got first right of refusal on this school.” And they went to look around, they looked in the papers, “oh, it’s not us.” And they tracked it down, it was John and Helen [Taylor], so John and Helen bought it, understandably and completely rightly. And at a Community Association meeting at the time [35:00] the local social worker, the local community worker from Stirling, who’s still in the office, been promoted up the ladder quite a bit, she came to the meeting. She stood up and said, while the meeting was in the school room, “Do you know this building’s been sold?.” [Laughs] Stunned. Stunned. And that was genesis of the Community Association as the charity it is now [HY: Right, okay], because a condition of its sale, it turned out, was that the buyers John and Helen would allow the community to use it for ten years from that point, so that we weren’t disenfranchised. [Slight pause] Now we didn’t discover that straight away, but we were, we did receive, we the community, the representation, John and Helen out of their magnanimity were going to allow the community to carry on using the school. [Mimincking] “Oh, that’s very nice, well we think we should pay a rent.” “No, I don’t want a rent.” Very nice too. So if there’s no rent, then on what basis do we, do you use it? So we tried to have a tenancy agreement or a user agreement, I was secretary at the time. And, we knocked something together, anyway they weren’t going to have that either. And so we were going to have sole use of the school room, but then there were other anomalies. So the bowls went in there, are they [mobile phone rings] separate or not, or not to the Community Association, who knows? And, if the Rural

 

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are in there, they’re not Community Association. So how does it all work out? And we could never get anything clarified, and then the Community Association thought, “ Well we’ve got use of this place, we could give it a coat of paint or we could put some new furniture in the kitchen, we could do something about the toilets.” Ah, none of that was ever possible. We could change the meters. None of it was ever possible, you could just use it. So, that went on for ten years, then it carried on just by default [HY: Yeah] and now we’ve found alternatives. But, [laughing] it goes back – I’m starting to whinge about the councils but there’s so much, they provide so much material for whinging about – they knew, they called it, when the school closed they called it, they had a committee that’s what they had, called [pauses to think] the words Ardeonaig Outdoor Centre Community Committee or something...

HY: Yeah, those are in the minutes, [PS: Yeah] the first few meetings.

PS: Yeah, a bizarre name dreamed up by some imbecile in the council, and, and so they were, so they knew it was a community centre, and youngsters used to come up from Stirling and use it as a residential base. But they had to camp in the garden, and the staff stayed in the school house ‘cause it didn’t fulfil any health and safety or fire requirements. Just incredible. And the community could still use the school room, that was all okay. [Remembering name] College…Ardeonaig Outdoor Centre College Committee, I think that’s what they called it. And so they knew it had got those community relations there, and then they sold it without any comment.

HY: So that committee was separate to the Community Association?

PS: Yeah, the Community Association succeeded it.

HY: Oh, I was going to say, yeah.

PS: And there was meant to be representatives from the Council on it but course they never want to come here for meetings in the evening, except for this woman, Lynne…Lynne somebody who came once or twice. She was very helpful. So, you know, it’s…I tell you, rural life around here, I joke about rural deprivation [laughs] we’re not really deprived, but we, it is an uphill struggle against people who have got not a hint, not only of, a hint of understanding or any inclination to work out what’s going on. And sadly, those people, the people with power and authority are in the councils so it’s easy to point to the Council and say, “They’ve done it again.” We have a huge national, international push on renewables and recyclables, so there are three, three businesses down the lochside: Firbush, the Hotel and Abernethy. All their refuse could easily go in the same recycling as the domestic refuse, [mimicking] “Oh, that’s domestic.” I’ve had hours on the phone with them, “No, domestic, no if you want to talk about domestic you need to talk to somebody else, we just deal with commercial waste.” “Yeah, but it’s still recycling glass.” “Ah, we send another wagon for that.” And the Hotel glass doesn’t get recycled ‘cause it might be contaminated, it won’t be sorted [slight pause]. I said, “But, even [40:00] allowing for all of those it will be cheaper and less polluting to have one lorry going down.” “No, can’t do it.” [Laughs] It’s, it’s just nonsense, it is nonsense. Now we’ve all chosen to live here so I’m not complaining but they allege they offer services and that’s why, that’s why I contest it with them ‘cause they don’t really offer any services. And they don’t have any understanding, so the local plan – you’ve really started me now – [laughing] the local plan, development plan, which was last developed in the late nineties I think, they’d had a meeting. Oh, no they didn’t, they just told us all that a new plan, a new development plan was going to be produced for Ardeonaig. And so everybody in Ardeonaig got up in arms and said, “That’s no use.” [Laughing] And it isn’t, it is no use, and I remember on my own behalf, not on the community behalf, just writing and saying this bears no resemblance to people’s lives and reality. And the woman who, who was responsible then went to Australia for six weeks so it all ground to a halt and that slowed things

 

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down, so that by the time the closing date was coming up she wasn’t there, nobody could make decisions. And there was a meeting in the school at which every house in Ardeonaig was represented, huge turnout, and everybody said, “This plan of development in Ardeonaig has got nothing to do with Ardeonaig.” I’m sure you’re familiar with the triangle. And it disenfranchises people who think they live in Ardeonaig but clearly you’re cutting out of Ardeonaig, so anybody across the burn, Burnbank, Dall, Dall Cottage, Marabeg is probably a bit far out to be part of it, development, and it stops at Croft Valley. The Hotel, the north side of the road, isn’t in the plan. So there was a lot of stushy and nobody took a blind bit of notice. And actually, what it did was, it unduly empowered – because, ‘cause the Council did what they like, and didn’t listen to anybody – they also unduly empowered one particular landlord, oh, John and Helen Taylor, so all the develop… land marked for development is theirs, virtually, not entirely but virtually. So, unless, unless that farmer wants to sell any of his land, it was never going to happen.

HY: It’s interesting, because they, they talk about Ardeonaig being a dispersed rural community...and yet the plan doesn’t.

PS: [Speaking over] Yeah and then they try and draw a line round it and stop it being dispersed. They did, yeah, and those are words I hit them with several times. And then, and now Neil and Eilidh [Taylor] of their land, they said, and Helen Taylor has said to me that, that the land in the local plan is their best fields, [laughing] why would they? As a non-farmer it doesn’t seem to me to matter a toss to be honest, but it matters to them and it’s theirs. So firstly they’re empowered, suddenly the land is highly valuable, by, by some [slight pause] blinkered person at the Council who thinks they’ve got more power than they can understand. So they’ve handed a huge asset to them that nobody else can access.

HY: Talking about building, so you built this house here though?

PS: I did. Yeah, that’s because [laughing] I’m no different from anybody else [laughs].

HY: But you can tell me a bit of the history about this plot, because there was something here before.

PS: There was, this house is called Ardtalnaig Lodge, and I’m supposed to have one of those quoins on the corner of the house that was meant to have been engraved ‘Ardtalnaig Lodge. Demolished 1977. Rebuilt 2007 [pronounced twenty-o-seven]’. And it was forgotten about at the time, I keep thinking I need to find somebody to come and engrave it on site now. So, yeah, there was a house here, [slight pause] I don’t know when it was built, it was called Ardtalnaig Lodge, it was timber with corrugated iron cladding, it was the shooting lodge for [slight pause] well I don’t know which estate. Ardtalnaig Estate in those days stretched from the other side of Keprannich right along and included Wester Tullich, so it was, it was huge. And it was sold off in 1950, and this house was sold off then for a few hundred pounds, on this acre of land that we, we have, and there was a little house in the garden called Ardtalnaig Lodge Cottage, now known to us as Holly Cottage. We bought Holly Cottage in 2003 [pronounced twenty-o-three], no, the end of 2002 [pronounced twenty-o-two] from an old couple who’d retired here for the fishing. They came from Yorkshire, he died, [45:00] she went back to Yorkshire. We only met them twice, they were not integrated in the community, they played bridge in Fearnan, that was their main social outlet. And he went fishing, he knew a lot of people in the fishing world. And we’d, Rosemary and I had passed for years thinking, “what a dark, damp house”, which it was, cover… surrounded by trees, trees right across the road. [Laughing] You’d never want, you’d never want to live there. And so we, we managed to buy it. I phoned up Joan Williamson and said who I was and, “we have met, Joan”, and all of that [laughs]. We’d met because when we took, when the community acquired the school room, and I think it was only

 

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‘cause I was secretary I was given lots of work to do, and John Taylor insisted that everybody was invited to things. And I said, “Yeah”, I said, “We’ll just do what we normally do”, and so they had me trailing along here, stopping at every house, the folk who never came to anything in Ardeonaig of whom the Williamsons were some, and delivering invitations to whist drives. [Slight pause] I don’t know what, I don’t know what John was on, about all that. We stopped at Ardradnaig, the lady in Ardradnaig used to come to things, Jo?…Mrs Ferguson, still alive…Joanne? Jo? Can’t remember her first name. She was Mervyn Browne’s wife’s cousin.

HY: Okay.

PS: [Laughs] Anyway, so we bought Holly Cottage, cut all the trees down, and knew that we’d never be able to build on this site, in fact we didn’t really appreciate the scale of the land we had because it was all covered in trees and rhododendrons. And we were, that was us, we were very happy to be living in Holly Cottage, we made some small extensions, and I had little, minor success in that I had the Council Tax re-evaluated and had it taken down a notch. [Pause] [Laughing] That’s when you know that the folk in the Councils [HY: Yeah], sometimes if you, you can get one up on them because their lackeys who’ve got too much work to do. So I was chuffed with that, and then we were working away just getting on with our lives, knowing that if there’d ever been any chance of a building on this site we could never have competed with wealthy people from Edinburgh coming to buy it. Or, wealthy people from Aberfeldy coming to buy it. And lots of enquiries had been made to the planners, I understand, about planning permission, the answer was, “No, not a chance.” And in 1992, the Williamsons saw this as a little pension pot and that they would get planning permission and do it. So they applied and were rejected, so they applied again all in 1992 and they appealed to the Secretary of State for Scotland, ‘cause it was before devolution, and they dismissed the appeal. I’m not surprised, it wasn’t a very good application. It was be…it was dismi…their, their basis was that the house‘ll be hidden and won’t be on view from the road, ‘cause this was all undergrowth in the front you see, it was all bushes and trees, and therefore nobody would know it was there, it’s not going to impose on the com…on the environment. And I thought, “Oh, well if I was that Secretary of State I’d say but somebody will come and cut those down”, which is entir…exactly what we did. So we knew we couldn’t compete, so, so I was just cutting the grass on this site thinking, “We’ll have a nice lawn here one day.” And then after a while, of cutting the grass, I just thought, “I’ll just have a little look at the planning history of the site, and just do a bit of research”, because I like little projects, that’s what it comes down to. [Laughs] So I did, and I established that, that the house hadn’t been burned down as local myth had it, it had been demolished. In fact, more than that, Raynesway Construction who owned the site in [slight pause] 1975 had applied for planning permission to build a new house on this site. Now, Ardtalnaig Lodge was here then, they’d applied for planning permission to build a house on the site, a new house, new build, and been granted that permission – I have a copy of those plans, horrible house – and so they were gonna, they were going to do it. Never got round to it, but they did get round to demolishing the existing Ardtalnaig Lodge on the 20th January 1977. And, and it, and I found all [laughing], all that stuff out with a lot of leg work having to overcome, not people being obstinate at, in the Archives and in the Council but just [50:00] not really thinking about how they could help. And the, and the reason I succeeded, and the Williamsons failed is that they employed an architect to do it, architect in Crieff, who didn’t put a very strong case together and I did it myself and I thought, “No, no, I’ll just dot the ‘i’s and cross the ‘t’s.” But critical to that was that I was by then well-integrated into the local community. They never were. So I knew the person who did the demolition, and I got him to sign an affidavit to say this demotion took place at that time, and, and it was his first job on his own, it was Donald Hancock [laughs], I knew him quite well. And so he’d demolished it, had the bonfire and suddenly looked round and here’s a fire engine ‘cause some nosy person reported it. And…

 

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HY: Across the loch?

PS: Across the loch [HY laughs]. And, and so I represented to the planning authority, and then, then I had to find the date, and I got the date off Mervyn ‘cause he’s kept a diary for the last sixty years, and he told me it was the 20th January 1977 – ‘Donald Hancock knocked down Ardtalnaig Lodge’. Donald…arhh, and Donald had told me years ago he’d knocked it down. So Mervyn did an affidavit too, and I said to the Council, “This planning application has to start within five years, and it started, it started by the demolition of Ardtalnaig Lodge, so that was the start, so it’s still current. This planning application is still current, therefore I’m goin’…and you, you the Council hadn’t served a completion notice or a requirement to complete or whatever they call it, and therefore it’s still current. And therefore, I’m going to proceed to build that house, here’s the copy of the plans.” Horrible house, I never had, never had any intention of building it [laughs and clears throat]. “What do you think?” And they wrote back and said, “Thank you Mr Simpson, we can’t, we can’t contradict any of your version of events and, and, and therefore carry on.” I was so smug. So I thought, “Well that’s okay, so far so good, I don’t want to have a fight with the planners about this.” So I thought, “Now, how do I get round not building that monstrous house, and then building something more in keeping?” So I drafted some plans [laughs], and wrote to them again and said, “Well, I’d like to change that, that planning application”, and I’ve found, to be honest, I’ve found the planners very helpful on this, it was Anne Condliffe at the time. I said, “I’d like to change that, I don’t want to build that horrible house, I’d really like to build this. Can I have an amendment to planning? Will that be okay?” And I wasn’t, I didn’t think it would be but it’s worth asking, and she helpfully wrote back and said, “No, it would need to be a new planning application” - my heart sank a bit – “But we could say it’s for a change of house type.” So I applied for it as a change of house type, it came through on the nod. I had gathered lots of other information together, and it came through on the nod and within their timescales. I remember the day it came, I was just chuffed to bits. And that’s why this house, this new Ardtalnaig Lodge is very traditional in its aspect and its, its appearance because [slight pause] if I’d had to have a fight with the planners, I didn’t want it to be on the shape of the windows or the pitch of the roof. I thought, “No, no, that’ll just aggravate people.” So that’s why, that’s why it looks like it…and I look at it now and sometimes think, “I could have done with a window down to the floor there”, but it wouldn’t have been vernacular. So that’s it.

HY: So, not many of things have been built in the area since you’ve been here though have they?

PS: Not, not west of us.

HY: No.

PS: East of us there’s been a lot on the lochside. So, a builder from Norfolk – Derek Rawson – bought Kepranich Estate in the [slight pause to think] early nineties I think. Carved it all up, on every ruin he found he built a house and he took his money and went, and left a lot of people thinking…oh he was a classic example of someone who came and changed everything, cleared off and didn’t live with any consequences. But our neighbours along here, John and Linda Dodds, they’re in one of Derek’s houses. Derek built that for, for them. The folk at Skiag, the Semples - Derek Rawson.

HY: So they were all ruins then and were rebuilt?

PS: Yeah, Skiag was a definite ruin. Skiag cottage was called Skiag [HY: Yeah]. [55:00] Now, that’s an interesting one, that was called Skiag…

HY: Yeah, I’ve seen it in the valuation rolls.

 

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PS: …it was a holiday cottage. Rawson built the house across the road, which David Semple bought, he called it Skiag because that was the original Skiag, and the folk at Skiag thought, “Oh, we’ve lost the name of our house, better call it Skiag Cottage.” So I thought, “It’s been done before, this is Ardtalnaig Lodge.” And then when you keep going that way, well the whole, he built the whole of Bracken Lodges, although the new owners built their house there. Keprannich House which is down to the lochside, Derek built that, he lived in that. Apparently there’d been an old tin shed down there that, I’d met folks staying at the Centre who’d had holidays there in their childhood. Shenlarich up at the top, Derek built that, keep on going, Keprannich was already there, the Keddies lived there. And he was retired farming folk and they were tenants of some of the property along here, they kept cows along here. And then beyond Keprannich, where Cooney now lives, Keprannich Steading down at the bottom that had always been there and it’s people from Dundee, very nice family whose name I can never remember, they were teachers, and they’ve renovated it bit by bit over the last thirty years. And then round the corner there’s two more houses, there’s a house called Schiehallion, which I think was a Rawson house just before you get to Ardradnaig, I think that was Rawson. And then once he got the bit between his teeth, he started building everywhere. So across the loch at Lawers, all those nice stone-build houses there, he did them. The Orphanage by the bridge in Kenmore, that was a ruin, the big white house down by the loch [HY: Oh, right], that was a ruin he bought and did it. So, he did, he did some good things in that he improved the housing stock and it’s all very in keeping. But that’s, Perth and Kinross seems to have a different planning approach to Stirling. Hmm, fascinating isn’t it really?

HY: It is. So would you say, compared to when you came, are there more kind of actual full-time residents or less than then ‘cause you says there’s people who have like their weekend houses or holiday cottages. Has that changed since you’ve come or is it pretty much the same?

PS: I think it’s pretty much the same [clears throat]. There are more [slight pause] yeah, it’s pretty much the same [slight pause]. I maybe more, am more aware of more folk to the east who have homes in Ardtalnaig and Glasgow or somewhere, or Edinburgh. But those folk have always been there. Upper Bealloch on the Centre’s road, when we came that was owned by the Strangs who lived down in Kilmahog and they’d had it for thirty years. But, it was a holiday house. Ballinloan was a holiday house, that’s now lived in. John English’s…John English, the Old Hall, people were trying to live there but it was…ah no, those people were living, he bought from people who lived there, the Lloyds. Before then I think it was a holiday house. So they’ve all, a lot of them have ebbed and flowed. I think, yeah, I’m not sure what the population’s done, I think it’s, I think there are those people who’ve gone on and on in the community – Mervyn since 1950, Joe and Margaret McLauglin have been here since, they’ve been here about forty years, and they sort of go on and on but Joe and Margaret don’t think they’re locals [laughs]. Mervyn’s not local, he’s from Donegal, everyone knows that [laughs]. But he’s gotta be local now, for goodness sake. Kenny Taylor is probably one of the few genuine locals born and brought up here, although he was born in Edinburgh, but from here. And Roger [Phil’s son] was born and brought up here, so he’s gotta be local, he’s got… there’s nowhere else to be if he’s not local here.

HY: Yeah, that’s true.

PS: But we have seen folk come and go, like the Lloyds who were at the Old Hall before the Englishes. The Englishes have come and gone. [Pause] Mary Sandeman’s come and gone, although she inherited those houses, or she acquired them with her dad who was a lovely Christian man who then retired to Killin. But he built Ard Tulaich, and had Croft Shennach which Mary took over I think. So, but Mary’s decided it was more sensible to live further, nearer, nearer civilisation as she’s getting older. So people do come and go. Alan Attak, at Myrtle Cottage, he – he’s had Myrtle Cottage for a long time – he hasn’t lived there permanently until he retired. I thought, I tried to get…we were

 

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looking for…[1:00:00] we thought we were going to be put out of Upper Bealloch earlier than we were, and I was looking for somewhere else to live and Myrtle Cottage was a possibility and his wife was living up near Nairn but they clearly weren’t together, but they weren’t saying that. So the baseline population is probably steady.

HY: I suppose that distance just makes it difficult for anyone who doesn’t work here to live permanently.

PS: Yeah, yeah, commuting is…you’d have to be determined to commute. You could commute from here to Perth, folk commute from Killin to Perth, well one person I know of does [laughs]. There must be others.

HY: And they go to Stirling.

PS; And they go to Stirling. And there was a dentist, whose name I can never remember, from…whose commuted from Killin to Glasgow but I think they might have moved again by now. [Pause} But, Perth’s an hour and a half, people down south spend more time than that travelling don’t they? Simon Marchant, you know he goes, he lives there permanently, or he stays there as we should say.

HY: In Ardradnaig.

PS: In Ardradnaig, but he’s, I think he’s away quite a bit doing some of his other work. [Pause] So I think, no, I think…I think the lochside community, these two hamlets are, they’re certainly more diverse, and me and Rosemary being here have helped that diversity, you being here have helped that diversity. And the, the strong hand on the community that the indigenous farmers have had for a long time isn’t quite the same anymore. Although, and I say this with good grace not with anything else, Margaret Taylor is still a very influential woman round here, and she would deny it, but if she’s got a suggestion to make it’s very hard for anyone to resist it. Usually ‘cause it’s a good idea to be honest [laughs]. And that always makes me feel a bit sad about Helen Taylor, she could’ve been the Lady of Ardtalnaig, she could have played a role like that which probably would’ve suited her

HY: [Correcting] Of Ardeonaig.

PS: Of Ardeonaig, but…but has chosen not to do, not to, not to dispense that, disperse that largess. [Pauses then laughs] Well as Isobel did, Isobel Barratt she did distribute largess, she was just a lovely lady who would, still sends a book at Christmas to Janet Anderson. [HY: Right] Sent a copy of ‘The Shed’ last Christmas which is a, which Janet read and told us about, and we told Isobel about, she was delighted.

HY: The Andersons been along the lochside the whole century, far as I know.

PS: Yes, yes, yes, Jimmy Anderson’s dad had Tullochan.

HY: There was a John Anderson right at the turn of the century.

PS: [Slight pause] And you see, on the plan of the hotel, showing the change of pedestrian access to the lochside, ‘cause the access used to go down through, the access to Ardeonaig Pier went down what’s now the hotel courtyard, round the back of the hotel and down the erstwhile road down the right-hand side of the field. When Charlie Harris or somebody built the back of the hotel out, and joined it up with the stables, that road, that access was closed off, so the public access was changed through the car park and round, where we go. A witness to that – I’ve a copy of it -a witness to that was Willie Noble, Pearl Noble’s husband and, and I think another witness was…the Taylor brothers

 

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were involved somewhere. So that plan’s signed, so if you like, there’s the evidence that there is a public right of way, though everyone will deny it. But Willie was always adamant, and the Nobles have been around a long time. Nellie Fisher was the last of a line, you know where she was at Greenacres. And the, and the Andersons, I think Jimmy Anderson was Joan’s dad who died on the hill gathering and she…more or less at her feet I think, it was a heart attack. [Slight pause] John and Kenny’s dad Willie who formed Taylor Brothers, that was the Taylor brothers that signed that plan, it was Willie and his brother, and I knew him, he was pretty old when we arrived, he died in eighty-eight I think. [Pause] He was alw…he was a shepherd, he lived at Brae farm, he was a shepherd on the estate, presumably for – now you’ll get this from the Taylors more than me – presumably for Mrs Price of Brae Lodge, he was their shepherd I think. Anyway, he bought the whole caboodle, very sharp, very sensible, couldn’t afford to buy Brae Lodge, good for us. [1:05:00] But he obviously had people lined up, I think he only bought it in, in the sixties, yeah sixty-seven comes to mind. He already had people lined up he was going to sell to – Jimmy Anderson was one of them - and that would be the deal, that’s what you’d do today, you’d…you’d buy it and make sure you knew where you’re going to disburse it so you’d, you’d cut your liabilities and then you owned it. I think he owned the hotel as well.

HY: Yeah.

PS: Yeah, and there’s, his wife Granny Taylor, Grace I think – ahh, I think she was Grace which would explain that wouldn’t it [a great granddaughter is called Grace] – she’s in the graveyard in, well the extension to the graveyard in Ardeonaig. She worked in the hotel, I think she ran it [slight pause] when it was a very small hotel. And then he sold West Brae to this man Arthur Ludkin who then sold it to us, and he sold the other side to Stuart Guild and his brother, East Brae, and I think that’s when he sold Croft Valley, that must have been sold, that was part of the estate, and Mike Willock’s dad was the gamekeeper, or his granddad was the gamekeeper on the estate. So it’s the same estate house as West and East Brae Cottage. [Pause] What else did he sell? Think he had to sell…oh, he had to sell other land to Jimmy Anderson like the field in Ardeonaig they have, Donald and Joan’s best field. You know…and I’ve talked with Helen Taylor about it recently, “Ah, yeah, John always rued the day his dad sold that.” I bet he did [laughs]. But then they, the Andersons then sold, sold piecemeal bits off – Craggan, that was Andersons.

HY: Did they sell directly to the Boys’ Brigade?

PS: I think so, yeah, and they’ve still got the land behind Billy’s house [Billy Noble]. I don’t know how the Log Cabin people…

HY: They…they bought it from [PS: from Andersons?] from Andersons, yeah.

PS: The Murray Clarkes. Ah, yeah, you know them, I forgot. And, so, but I think Billy and Alda [Noble] bought their site from the BB [Boys’ Brigade]. [HY: Right]. I don’t really know that, Billy would tell you. Billy and Alda, they were just building that when we came. They were living in Ian Noble’s house when we arrived, while their house was being built and Ian was still living with his mum, his mum and dad [laughs].

HY: It’s really interesting.

PS: ‘Cause Ardeonaig is one of the few communities where the entire housing, council housing stock was sold off.

HY: Right.

 

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PS: In fact it was held up in discussion at one stage when Margaret Thatcher was selling off council housing, and [imitating] “in some areas a hundred per cent of the council housing stock has been sold, it’s disgraceful, there’s no social housing” i.e. both houses [HY: Was it two houses?], both houses [HY: Yeah, yeah] in Ardeonaig [both laugh].

HY: I think they’re, in the valuation rolls they’re termed number 1 Ardeonaig or number 2 Ardeonaig.

PS: Yeah, yeah [laughs]

HY: House and garage or something [laughs] It’s quite a lot. Just to finish then, just in terms of the, the outdoor centre, do you see that that’s had quite a big impact then on the community in terms of the people it brings in? I mean, beyond yourselves as well, obviously you’ve come in and stayed and contributed a lot, but there’s a kind of influx of people that wouldn’t, in other communities similar to this in rural locations, without that, you know, they don’t have kind of a healthy population in a way because they don’t have people coming in. Do you, is that something you would [PS: Yeah, I think] say or not?

PS: I think, I think I would say that. I wouldn’t, I would say for people like us and the folk who’ve, who’ve arrived and decided they’re going to settle here for a while. Yourselves, Nat and Morag [Felgate], Steve and Gemma Morgan who were in here before the Parmenters, they started life in the Old Post Office, ‘cause we were still in Inneach, they came to Inneach after us. I thought they were going to do that, and Gemma, Gemma was [laughing] a great girl, she, she decided she was here and she needed friends and people around her, and she couldn’t be doing spending years getting to know people and being friends with them, so she went and knocked on doors and said I’m here, I need, I need a friend. And I know she knocked, she did that with Frances [Taylor], and I know she did that with Hel…Eilidh [Campbell], and I think they’re still friends with and in touch with Neil and Eilidh who at least once – how long have they been away now? Three, five, six or seven years – at least once Neil and Eilidh visited them in Wiltshire. [Clears throat] But Frances was too busy, she had four children and a job so that wasn’t going anywhere that one. And, and so Gemma was up, was up for change, the trouble is when folk are in for a short time they’re up for contributing, their contribution just always seems like it doesn’t mean much [1:10:00] [slight pause]. We get that in Killin, you get that at the church, people parachute in for a year or two, want to change everything and then go away and leave those of us left standing putting it back to where it was. [Slight pause] So I think the younger staff in the Centre, although they…if they attend a local function, the locals like it but never get round to get to know them because they’re not consistent, they’re not there, you think we all have enough trouble learning people’s names, you know, so another person dressed in fleece from the outdoor centre is just another person dressed in fleece from the outdoor centre. And that’s how it’s seen in the church. Unless folk like Marge [Ingram] determine she’s going to be at a few things and now people know Marge. So, I saw Marge chatting with Margaret Taylor after church on Sunday, having a cup of tea and I thought, “Ah, that’s good”, because there’s some consistency, she’s there in church, she’s at the whist drive. So you can start to impact people’s lives a bit more. [Pause] But, but in reality, I think it’s going to be – how do you put a timescale on it? – anybody who’s there less than five years, they’ll be in and gone and folk’ll be saying, “Oh, what are they called again? What did they do? Ah, yeah, ah, they pushed the pram back and forwards along the road and, yeah, Henry made a noise. Yeah, yeah that was it.”

HY: [Laughing] And life goes on.

PS: And life goes on, yeah, we all go on, yeah that’s right. And I’ve found myself thinking that when I see new people coming who aren’t at the Centre ‘cause I know, I’ve got an angle on them, new

 

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people coming in I think, “Hmm, well let’s just, let’s just see where it goes before I, I get too excited.” And I know…

HY: [Laughing] Wait till they’ve been here fifteen years before [PS: Yes, yes] you consider them.

PS: [Laughing] And I know that, and I’ve had that conversation with, with some of the, with the folk at Dall and I know that’s how people would have thought about us. There’s no rancour, that’s, you know, it’s just what happens. And we, we lived in Nantwich for three years before we came here; very happy there, very involved in vill… town life, very involved in the church, all that stuff. We thought three years was quite a long time then [laughs], just a drop in the ocean. You know, if our instructors stay three years at the Centre we start to think they’re getting the hang of the job. [Slight pause] But the whole, it was very, it was the sort of town where lots of people came in and out, and were doing things for three, four or five years, and then for the nature of their work or whatever else they were moving, and, and that was normal. Well, it’s not normal round here. And I look across the loch, well I don’t know if those folk all know all of us [HY: No] but I know all of them.

HY: [Laughing] Do you? [PS: Yeah] You know who they are?

PS: That’s Duallin there, that’s Neil and Flora McNaughton, now I don’t know him, I’ve spoken to her ‘cause they take in looked after children.

HY: Oh, yeah.

PS: And…some of whom have worked at the Centre so I’ve had conversations [HY: Right] with them at times. The next place is Gordon Stewart, whose wife’s name I can never remember, and they’ve got, there were two daughters who are twins, non-identical I think, who were at school with Louise [Phil’s daughter]. [HY: Right] So we know them, Gordon does the quality-assured sheep. The next house is Shenlarich, Shenlarich on both sides of the loch. That’s where the famed Elizabeth McDiarmid lives [HY: Yep]. [Laughs] The next place up here, this, this is Lower Duallin, somebody moved from there, don’t know who’s there now, but the houses up the hill, some people called Webb or Webster, don’t know them. But they arrived, and a daughter or a wife was, got a job with Highland Perthshire Community Trust or something. It was all reported in Comment, she was going to change that and take it on and do this, and wonderful things. I bet less than a year and she moved to a different job. And it just makes me, makes, it reminds me to be cautious of the claims I make for what I’m going to do before [laughing], before there’s any evidence to support it.

HY: So you never considered moving to Killin, or Aberfeldy then?

PS: Oh we did.

HY: Were you tempted?

PS: Oh, yeah. Yeah, not tempted, it was, we were trying to make rational choices because [slight pause] times change, there was never the remotest possibility, especially after all the rows I’d had with John and Helen [Taylor], of us ever buying any land and doing anything in Ardeonaig [HY: Yeah]. That’s how much times change. And we, we got to the stage where we thought, “We’re in a tied house, we, we can’t do that forever, we’ll have to do something.” We looked at houses, it was Killin or Aberfeldy, we looked at [1:15:00] houses in both places, couldn’t afford anything. [Laughs] You know what I’m talking about? Went on holi… came, went on holiday one summer and the Armoury Toll House on the – do you know the house we had in Aberfeldy? – the old lady who’d had it had died and it was on the market before we went away. It was still on the market when we came back, “Oh, let’s go and have a look.” So, a combination of that, and [slight pause] Norwich Union privatising [HY laughs], and handing out shares and we’d [HY: Yep] had our mortgage with them

 

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when we, an endowment when we’d first got married which we kept on paying meant that we could buy it, and we renovated the Armoury Toll House thinking we might end up going to live there. [Slight pause] And it was nice enough to go and live in, we could’ve done that. And then we thought, “Oh, blow that, we’re on a roll here now.” So we renovated the Armoury behind it which is the old rifle range, and we thought, “Well, actually we could live here better” [laughs]. But we still sort of, the thing about community, Killin community’s got something more about it than Aberfeldy community from my viewpoint, which could be jaundiced. So, although Aberfeldy was a possibility because of the property, probably we’ve got more friends and we know people in Killin, and [slight pause] anyway, Holly Cottage came on the market, so all those, all those ideas closed. But my, my pet theories about Aberfeldy is, is that there’s more stratification in Aberfeldy society. So, and there’s the right and wrong end of town, and [slight pause]…

HY: You’ve got that in Killin as well though haven’t you?

PS: Well, you have.

HY: Smaller though.

PS: It is smaller, it’s, it’s smaller…I mean ever social problem is in Killin, there’s no doubt about that. I think there’s [slight pause], I don’t think you get the joiner socialising and mixing with [laughs] professional people so much in Aberfeldy that you do in Killin. So, if you go to Killin, there is the council housing bit or, and there is the, there is Manse Road and all those things, but these joiners here [referring to men currently working on his house], Richard lives in Lyon Road next door to, or next door but one to where the Wyllies live. You know, that’s a very egalitarian row down there, next door to a computer geek, and he used to live on the Main Street. You know, that’s…and if I went to a function, which I hardly ever do, oh I went to the Wyllies, a birthday party, were you there? [HY: No] No. And it was an amazing cross-section of people. Richard and Yvonne were there, and Gordon and Sheila [Aitken] were there, from the Bank House. It was a huge cross-section and I thought, “This is, this is great, I like this a lot better than being always with the architects and the teachers and the people who, who I might otherwise be funnelled to socialise with.” I think, I think Killin’s a great place really. And come the day when we can’t live out in the country here…

HY: You think that’ll, that’ll be the day [laughing] you move is it?

PS: No, I’m going to have to car…I’ll have carers here. That’s what this development’s for [referring to current building work at his house] so I can live downstairs [laughs].

HY: [Laughing] And have someone look after you.

PS: [Laughing] And have three or four carers living upstairs.

HY: That’s brilliant. Alright.

PS: Are we doing alright?

HY: Yeah, I think that’s excellent. I think we’ve just over an hour so that probably [PS: Is that?] a good time to...

PS: Yeah, okay.

HY: Cool, thank you very much.

PS: So you’ve let me roam.

[Recording ends]

 

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Appendix 3: Oral history transcripts

3.7 Kenneth Taylor

Name of interviewee: Kenneth John Taylor (KT)

Gender: Male

Date of birth: 26th December 1940

Place of birth: Edinburgh, Scotland

Date of interview: Tuesday 31st January, 2012

Name of interviewer: Helen Louise Young (HY)

Audio length: 1 hour 41 seconds. Five minute time markers are given in [ ].

HY: Okay, if you just confirm your full name, date of birth and place of birth for me.

KT: Kenneth John Taylor, date of birth was 26/12/ 40, and I was actually born in Edinburgh.

HY: Okay.

KT: Right.

HY: So were you born and bred in this area then, in Ardeonaig?

KT: I’ve never lived anywhere else, apart from I was born in Edinburgh, I’ve been on a few holidays [laughs], not that many [HY laughs].

HY: So how did you family come to the area then?

KT: Well, they, they actually farmed in Lochlomondside, my father and his brother, two brothers actually, and, well must have got the chance of the tenancy of, well it was actually just Dall Farm then [HY: Right] and were just tenants then, think it was a lady, Mrs Price. She had bought it, bought the whole estate from Breadalbane and then she was letting it out in different, you know the base of your four different farms. So there you are, they moved on block the whole family, that would be 1938 I think, anyway.

HY: So that was, all the brothers came did they?

KT: There was three actually, father and two brothers, but one died shortly after they came here [HY: Oh okay], so, and, wait a minute, I suppose, aye, Father and Mother, they must have been married shortly after that I think. Well…aye they definitely were married when they came here I think, aye. Be on my birth certificate I suppose, when they got married. I suppose that they reckoned they were coming to a better area, you know, that’s…they had a sort of, it was a sheep farm at, down there as well, they actually milked cows, they had a wee, a small dairy down there.

HY: Okay, so a little bit different then.

KT: It was a, this was purely a hill farm really, you know, and, and probably a bigger place, you know, and it was a, uh huh.

HY: And what’s your earliest memory of being here?

 

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KT: [Slight pause] Well, I can remember horses coming in and out the stable, and things like that, you know, there was horses, that’d be about, I’d be six or seven I think when they maybe first got a tractor, it was a David Brown Cropmaster, I think it was called. I think that back then we had two, there was two horses I can remember, Baldie and Jessica were, were their names and, you know, there is a stable, it’s now a dogs’, converted into dog kennels, but it, but I mean the, well it was horses that did everything, aye.

HY: So they did, the two horses did all the work, did they?

KT: Well, they’d be more than two, there was, oh here aye there was another, it was a…Highland Gelding I think, Molly was her name, you know, she was, but I mean it was all done horse and carts, everything, aye.

HY: So did the tractor make a big difference to, was it your father ‘n’…?

KT: Ah well, the, I mean, well at that time they would be three shepherds and another, well he’d probably be a horse….a horseman, or, you know, he’d be, just do everything, but the, basically there was actually three shepherds all with, well there’s three cottages in the place and they were all, all had a shepherd in them, aye. And my…my uncle, Father’s brother and his sister, they stayed in, in Maragbeg which, you know, it’s always been run with Dall, you know, really, aye. Er, what else? Well, I can remember the first day I went to school, one of the shepherds’ wives she gave me an orange, had to go along, there was actually a school car that picked up the children from Ardtalnaig, and I wasn’t meant lifts, well I lived just a few hundred yards so I, I was meant to walk, but well, was, it was a Mr Crerar that had the school car…

HY: [Laughing]You got a lift along the road did you?

KT: I got, I got a lift along the road, uh huh, but that, that, my first day at school she gave me an orange to take to school, and I can remember when I had it at playtime the bally thing was rotten [HY & KT laugh]. That was a Mrs McKay. But I mean the, och, the shepherds, there would, they’d be nearly, I would say, well there was a shepherd in each separate hersel as we called it, probably until I left school, and then sort of started doing it ourselves, but, well, well when I went to school there was quite a lot of kids in the school, I cannot remember, they’d be thirteen or fourteen, but…

HY: And that was the Ardeonaig school?

KT: That was Ardeonaig School, oh aye.

HY: Do you remember who the teacher was?

KT: That was a Mrs Smart, uh huh, uh huh. Then who did I have? A Mrs Maclean.

HY: And they lived in the school house did they?

KT: They lived in the school house, uh huh.

HY: Did they have families, or were they just…?

KT: Mrs, Mrs Smart didn’t have, she had a grown-up family, [5:00] but she was probably quite nearly retiring age, aye. But, the Macleans, aye, there, there was a, she had two boys and a girl, and her husband actually worked in Taymouth Castle, it was a, a kind of – what was it? – a civil defence establishment at [HY: Okay], in that time, that’ll be – what? - sixty, sixty odd years ago, aye, more than sixty years ago [HY: Goodness].

 

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HY: So he kind of drove along every day did he?

KT: He actually, no he didn’t have a car, he either walked or got a lift, aye, aye. Sidney Maclean was his name, he was a kind of poor wee, she was a very glamorous person [HY laughs] Mrs Maclean, that was that. That was another thing, they had a drama club in Ardeonaig and she was, oh she was a fantastic actress and fantastic singer and very, very arty, but I think probably a hopeless, hopeless teacher. I think as times gone on I can see, well, she was hopeless [HY: Was she?] I, I managed to scrape by, we had these Qualifying Exams and I, I managed to scrape past it, but…

HY: You weren’t inspired then?

KT: No, I wasn’t really, no. I was told I should have done an awful lot better because, actually my brother, he was three years younger, and he, there was a, the teacher that came after Mrs Maclean, she, a Mrs Belfit, she was, she was the very opposite, really a, a bit of a tarter, but I mean she, she got the best out of the pupils, but Mrs Maclean didn’t give two hoots, you know [HY: Really]. If you were good at, she was very arty and I, I, that’s one thing I wasn’t very good at was, but, but…

HY: So the, did you do the drama club then?

KT: No, I didn’t actually, no, but there was one or…it was really a good going club. My mother, she, she was in it and, och, I mean there was an awful lot more folk round about in the district, you know, as I say all these, maybe three families in our three cottages, and, aye well, all the crofts up the road, up the brae road, there was [HY: All full] folk in them, there was folk, and the crofts were actually worked, you know, there was one, two three, be four crofts, maybe nearly five crofts, with individual folk working them, aye.

HY: So was there a community hall at that time, or did they use the school to do things?

KT: Er, er…

HY: Do you remember?

KT: They would actually build the, well what is the Old Hall, well I can remember when I was at school in Ardeonaig that the two council houses were built then, so that would be [slight pause], roundabout, wait a minute I’d be nearly, I’d be ten or eleven, they, they must have been built about the early fifties, or…and, I think it’d be roundabout then though - I should know ‘cause I’ve got all the records of the hall - when, aye there was a hall built, you know, it was, it was, but that would be, that would be after that, it was a, it was Madame S., Madame Stuart Stevenson, she was, she was the laird then, you’ll probably have heard, heard about her, and…

HY: So was, was she the one who got it built, sort of?

KT: She was [laughs], I know my father was, was on, on the committee, and there was, oh it was horrendous, the, I mean, I mean, it was a…she was determined that Ardeonaig was going to have a hall and it ended up it was just a, it was a liability, it was a noose around their necks really and that, but we’re, I’m saying, we’re talking about having a hall again but I can’t…[HY and KT laugh]. It was actually an asbestos Nissen type building, and it was damp and it was…but actually it served its purpose for quite a wee while, but it was a continual, they were forever spending, spending money on it.

HY: So was, was that where all the community events were held at that time?

KT: Really it was, aye, uh huh, Aye, I can’t really, och, they probably were in the school before that, but I just really cannae remember, aye.

 

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HY: Did you have parties at the school? I know the Halloween party was held there…

KT: I think there were, aye, latterly we had because I think the, the hall got into such a mess that we had to revert back to the school for things like that, aye. Oh, well when, aye, when Mrs MacIn…all, all the school parties, they were in the, I mean basically the school sort of, sort of ran the, ran these, these, because it was, there was more kids and, you know, but then…aye, aye, I forgot, there was a, there was Ardeonaig Bowling and Social Club, that, that was mainly held in the hall, you know, they had the carpet bowling tables, and I think it actually, [10:00] it was a three night a week affair [HY: Goodness]. There was, the ladies had a – was it a Monday night? – the men’s club was a Wednesday night, and then on a Saturday night there was, it was a communal one, aye.

HY: So that was a popular thing to do was it?

KT: Oh it was, aye, oh it was. I mean the, well I started going to the carpet bowls, I’d be just ten or eleven or something, ‘cause my uncle he was pretty keen. Och, there was a lot very keen, you know, and that, ‘cause he, he would walk from Maragbeg some night…you know, he didn’t drive actually, well he did drive but he didn’t have a car [HY: Yeah], and he walked to, that’d be two or three miles, he’d have done a good mile and a half, he would do that two or three, twice a week anyway, that, didn’t matter if it was snowing or not, I mean folk were, they were dead keen on it. But, and, it actually carried on, well I’ve still got all the, I ended up being the last chairman and the secretary, I’ve still all the minutes and [word unknown] books for it. But, aye, eventually the Bowling Club started, or the Social Club started sort of running the kids’ parties, you know, I don’t know whether, I don’t think there was a WRI then, I don’t know when it start...

HY: That, that didn’t come to the seven…early seventies.

KT: Aye, uh huh. Ah well, I know, know the, ah well, because I can remember once we had the hall all, the Bowling Blub had the hall all decorated up and all the crepes on alright, and we went in the day of the party and the dampness had, everything was down on the floor so that, I think we, we moved it to the school then, and it was probably in the school after that, aye.

HY: When would that have been, roughly?

KT: It was after, aye, it was after Margaret and I got married because I think Sandy was a, be a baby, so that would be [slight pause], be the end of the sixties some time [HY: Yeah], aye, uh huh. Aye, or in the middle sixties some, uh huh.

HY: Yeah. So was it called the Bowling and Social Club did you say?

KT: Aye, uh huh.

HY: So they kind of took on some of these things from the school?

KT: They did, aye, uh huh, aye, ‘cause I can, aye, I can remember having to go up to Killin and get the sausages and sausage rolls and stuff like that, aye [HY laughs].

HY: So have the, the social kind of events just been passed around different committees over the years then?

KT: It has, it has really, aye, the WRI…

HY: When one has come to the fore, the other’s dropped away.

 

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KT: …the WRI seems to have taken over quite a lot of things now too, aye. And, well I, well we wouldn’t have electricity or anything like that for, till – I’m just trying to think now – I suppose, I can remember, I think this house would be wired, would have been the early fifties, I can’t remember, Margaret probably knows better when we got electricity ‘cause I know they had, they had electric…no they hadn’t electricity, but they, when I was going with Margaret, they had television at, up beyond Killin, but we, we couldn’t get television, but, aye, because, aye, they wouldn’t have electricity up there till a good while after us, uh huh. But I can remember going up to Mid Lix to watch Miss World and things like that [HY and KT laugh]. [Quietly to himself] What else have I?

HY: With the kind of social events and stuff, how important do you think that was to people, to meet together? Did they, I mean generally ‘cause people farmed and they kind of knew each other from kind of working together, did they, [KT: Oh, there would be] was it quite important to kind of [KT: Oh, it was], to get other…everyone together on a social basis.

KT: Oh, I think it was, oh and whist drives, they were a, kind of…

HY: Were they popular, yeah?

KT: Aye, I mean folk would just, the next morning that would be the big discussion, who, how many tricks, who got what and what, how many they should have got. Aye, there probably was a, quite a few more whist drives and things like that, you know, things, aye, uh huh.

HY: And did people go out of Ardeonaig to kind of socialise? Or go to events in Killin or Kenmore?

KT: Well, they would, mainly to sort of, they’d be sort of, kinda annual balls, you know, Lochearnhead Farmers they had a big annual ball that was over in Lochearnhead Hotel, and maybe a, probably another one in Aberfeldy, and…that’d be, that’d be about as far as they would go though, you know [HY: Right], I can, uh huh. A different story when I, when, once I started driving we would go eighty or ninety miles to a dance, maybe a hundred miles, aye [HY: Goodness], come back at five o’clock in the morning, aye. [Slight pause] Aye, there was an old lady up just, aye, where Mary Sande…Mary Sandeman stays, Croft Shennach, and I can, coming down the brae about half past five and she was going down, there was a well down the bottom of the brae and she was going down to, she wouldn’t have water in the house and she was down to fill up her [HY: Right], her pail, aye.

HY: And you were just coming home?

KT: I was coming home [KT and HY laugh]. So, we get annoyed at the kids nowadays, but I think probably we were just as bad. [15:00] Well, aye, that’s when I was in me, probably in my teens I think, you know, aye, uh huh.

HY: So where did you go to school after Ardeonaig?

KT: After Ardeonaig I probably should have went to Callander, aye, well you either went, Killin was a Junior Secondary which, well, it would’ve done me fine, but, ‘cause I left, but I could’ve gone to Callander, but being a poor wee soul I didn’t want to stay in a hostel so my, my dad had a sister near Oban so I went [HY: Oh right], I went and stayed with them and I went to Oban High School [HY: Ah, goodness]. Aye, my brother and I both did, aye, uh huh. So that’s where, aye. But I suppose I didnae carry on, I left school just probably as soon as I could so I just get home, I just wanted to come home.

HY: You always wanted to just get farming did you?

KT: Aye, aye, uh huh. Although the Director in Oban, he didnae want me to leave, I left anyway, aye.

 

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HY: So how old would you have been then?

KT: I would be fifteen and a half I think.

HY: Ah, so you didn’t stay long at the school then?

KT: No, no, I just, aye. Oh, I didn’t even, no [KT and HY laugh], I just learnt to read and write, aye, uh huh. But no, neither did my brother, he didn’t stay long either.

HY: No. Just came back.

KT: Aye.

HY: So when did you kind of get the house of your own? Was it when you got married that you then had a house here?

KT: Probably, Mother and Father stayed there, well when we got married we stayed along in, well when I left school, I probably, aye, they’d still be two shepherds, but then I, probably the year after, one of the shepherds left and I started doing the bit he, started looking after the bit he was doing, that would be when I was sixteen, something like that [HY: Okay]. But there was still a shepherd in, stayed in Ashburn, so, but then he left as well, maybe that was when, that’d be probably not long after my brother, he was three years younger, he came home, and then he, well when he left Margaret and I must have decided we were getting married so we stay, stayed…we stayed in that cottage along there for, must have stayed there quite a wee while, well, probably four or five years anyway, uh huh. And Mother and Father they stayed here, and then they did up Burnbank where Sandy is and then they moved over there, and eventually, I think, we moved, we moved in here, uh huh. And, John would be a, my brother, he’d be a while after he got married, but he spent, there’s as many newly-married couples started off their life in that cottage along the road, aye. One of the, the young shepherds [18:00] he, Willie McDonald, he started there as well, his father was, his father was up in Brae Farm, well it was after that we – aye, when was it? – maybe Margaret said, there was Madame Stuart Stevenson was the laird, and then there was a [pause], Margaret, she probably told you who, who was the lairds, but then the laird he just, he just had it, a chap Rampton, he just had the whole estate for a short time, and it wasn’t what he was really wanting, he probably was wanting something more [HY: Margaret said, yeah], aye, so, well we got the chance, Dad got the chance to buy it.

HY: Was that a big thing at the time?

KT: Oh, certainly was, aye, but it was a lot of money at that time, but it was, nowadays it was next to nothing, it was. Ah well, of course Mr – aye, would Barry Barratt have the? - I think he had, had the Brae Lodge as we ca,,,or Tigh-nan-Dileachdan sometime as it was called, he probably, I mean it wasn’t in the Estate then, so, aye well, we bought the, Dad bought the whole lot and then he sold the Tullochan bit to Joan’s mum and dad, and we also sold the hotel as well then, it was just, you know, we actually just wanted, but we didn’t have Brae Farm so that was a, that was a bit extra we actually got then when we bought the, uh huh. So, aye, that was, there was a shepherd in Brae, it was his son that I said he got married and he ended up staying in Ashburn, his father hurt his leg in the, he slipped actually and broke his kneecap or something, and his leg, leg was never, so the son I’m talking about, he just left, he was like, [20:00] he just left school and stepped into his dad’s shoes and just carried on, aye, uh huh.

HY: So how much difference did it make then actually owning the farms rather than being tenants? Did it make much? Did it allow more freedom to do things?

 

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KT: It probably allowed you more freedom, uh huh, uh huh. I mean most of the lairds, they were pretty keen on shooting and all the rest of it, and if it wasn’t just suiting them we couldn’t, you had to do as they said, if you wanted to go to gather your sheep in you had to do what you were told kind of thing, and…it certainly gave you a, a bit of independence, that, that was the main thing really, I wouldn’t say you’re, not any better off really I don’t suppose, no. Because, I mean, basically I don’t think you’re, the rents wouldn’t be extortionate really, and I just couldn’t say what the rents were, I can’t remember, it didnae bother me then, but…

HY: Do you think it roots your family in the area more, or…

KT: The fact that we’re…?

HY: As in, the fact that you now kind of obviously own the farms, and have established a business here.

KT: I suppose it does, I suppose it does, it’s maybe a bad thing though because you [laughing], you don’t, you are always wanting to expand, but you, you’re always a wee bit wary, you know, because you know what you’re, you know what you’re doing really, but, you know, if you, if you had maybe been a tenant and you were sort of struggling you would be maybe more inclined to, to expand or do something different, or go somewhere different [HY: Yeah], aye.

HY: So tell me a little bit about the, the farming business here then, as it’s developed, ‘cause it’s kind of, you’ve got kind of lorries and…

KT: Oh aye, well that was, it’s probably something I’d always wanted to do as well but my son’s done it instead. But, well as I say, the staff that were, is gone down, you know, they’d be far more staff on the, probably things were done an awful lot better in the old days than they are now, you know, the, the, everything, I would say, was probably maintained walls, dykes, fences, were actually maintained. There was more time to do it, you know, there was always probably an extra person, you know, to do jobs kind of like that.

HY: More maintenance, sort of, yeah.

KT: More maintenance, aye, you know, I mean if, if a thing’s doing alright it, it just has to keep going till it’s, but, but, basically the, it’s the type of farm you can’t really change, you know, it’s basically [slight pause], it’s still the same type of sheep, the same type of cattle, probably, probably numbers have expanded quite a wee bit more actually, really. But, probably the, the biggest change now is the, the amount of form-filling that we’ve to do, I can remember my father and his brother, there was only one real form that, they called it, twice a year there was a December and June annual return, and you, you filled in all you acreages and all your numbers, we’ve still to do that, that was a big day for them I can remember and, but now you’ve still got that and everything else you do has got to be…

HY: There’s, there’s a lot of stuff from the EU is there, that you have to fill in?

KT: Well, I don’t, probably is the EU that’s to blame for it, it gets the blame for it, but probably nowadays we’ve to rely a fair bit on subsidies from the EU, well at the present moment we have, apparently it’s not going to last much longer so I don’t know what’s going to happen. [Slight pause] But, no I think my father, it would change quite a lot in his lifetime too, but when I think, it’s probably changed a heck of a lot more in mine, you know, really. I mean, the electronic age is, it’s my own fault I never, I’ve never, I’ve never really got into it at all, but I mean, when you think in the old days we’d no electricity, we’d have a wee radio with, well, even before that you used to have a dry battery and a, and a wet battery to make your wireless work, but it was a great thing when we got just the

 

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one wee sort of dry, dry battery thing. But, you know, they had these accumulators that had got to go and get, to go to Killin to get charged up, I don’t, I don’t know what [words unknown]. But, I mean, it’s things like that, you know, nowadays, well even when you think going from horses to the machinery we’ve got now [25:00] it’s just quite incredible really. The place could, if we hadn’t got the machinery you just wonder how it, you know, you couldn’t do, you couldn’t do the same things what you’re doing, and yet when you see some of these dykes that have been built long ago with no, no lifting equipment at all, and the stones that they’d, must have manipulated…

HY: There’s some fairly big stones around aren’t there.

KT: Aye, I don’t, aye there is, but they must have managed, aye.

HY: It’s amazing, where there’s a will.

KT: Aye well, that’s just it, aye. But I suppose there again, there was so many folk, you know, so, so many hands really, uh huh.

HY: So you, do you think the community’s changed quite a bit then given that you say there’s less people here, just kind of less people working in farming? Do you feel that it’s a smaller kind of community here or not?

KT: Is that yours? [referring to beeping noise]. What’s that I hear? Where’s that from?

HY: It’s the phone I think.

KT: Somebody’s phone, aye, might be my own, aye. Och, I suppose it probably has, och definitely. Well, I think probably the one thing that would make the biggest change was when the school actually closed.

HY: Really?

KT: Och, I think so, you know the, it definitely kept the community together I would say, well it was the one thing that, you know, that everybody kind of got involved in, most folk got involved in one way or another, aye. Aye, there’s [slight pause]…

HY: And I suppose, ‘cause you’ve always had family around haven’t you, has that been important, that you’ve felt kind of, there’s always…?

KT: Oh aye, I would say so [laughs], I sometimes…sometimes I could do…

HY: [Laughing] Have your own little community.

KT: Aye, sometimes I could do fine without them, but most of the time I don’t know how I would manage without them, aye.

HY: ‘Cause how many children do you have?

KT: Aye, four, two boys and two girls, aye. Well, there’s the boys, they’re at home, uh huh. But, well, Sandy, he’s kind of, well he’s dead keen, he was always dead keen on haulage, he, when we used to hire in haulage contractors he, that’s all he wanted to do was go with the, well I must admit I was the same, ‘cause there used to be two local haulage firms in Killin and it was, you know, when we were putting the lambs to the lamb sales in Stirling, it was a great, a great thing to, to get away on the lorry that day, and Sandy he was the same, he would, when he got to that age, he was to start on it too. But the, well, it was a big, a big float that would take about a hundred and twenty lambs, but the thing Sandy’s got, is running about with now, takes probably nearly five hundred [HY: Oh my goodness],

 

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aye, so it’s a heck of a difference really. And it, folks say, “How on earth do they manage down that road”, but you’ll know, you’ll meet them sometimes [HY laughs], they seem to do anyway, aye, uh huh.

HY: When did you get the first kind of lorry?

KT: When did Sandy start? I think [slight pause], I’ll be talking [word unknown] Margaret is the one for figures, but [slight pause]…

HY: Is it fairly recently?

KT: Och, it must be nearly twenty years ago.

HY: Oh, twenty years ago, okay.

KT: Och, I’m sure it will be, maybe, might be even more. Uh huh, because there’s a, a young chap started with Sandy, and he would be, he’s, he’s said he’s been a part-time, he’s started full-time now, but he was always dead keen on lorries when he was about eight or ten, and he says, he says he’s been a part-time employer for the last fifteen, employee for the last fifteen years, so anyway it was definitely before that. Aye, och it would, aye it must be about twenty years anyway, aye. In fact, aye, it’s hard to believe really, uh huh, but…

HY: So does that contribute quite a lot to the kind of, the business then?

KT: Oh, it doesn’t really, it probably takes in an awful lot more than the farm does. It does actually, aye, uh huh.

HY: Do you think that’s quite a good balance then, to have the two running alongside?

KT: Oh definitely it is, I mean it’s, it’s…it is, but probably it’s not the best place for a haulage business to be situated [HY laughs]. You know, it’s not the best place to have your, have a yard, but that’s what Sandy says, there’s, you know, there’s about an hour at least, sort of driving time that is [HY: Yeah, just to get here] unaccountable, you know, really. And, nowadays every minute that you’re driving is, the rules and regulations that the, the haulage business has to, it’s quite frightening. I mean you - better watch what I’m saying – but before they could, they didn’t need to put their, say they were on this road they didn’t need to put a card in, but now with, it’s all computerised, the lorry knows if it moves two feet I think [HY: Yeah, yeah], uh huh, aye, but…

HY: So that makes it a bit tricky.

KT: That makes it…[30:00] that’s actually why we’ve had to get another driver [HY: Okay], because, you know to [HY: Yeah] compensate for all the hours, you know, to do the hours, uh huh. But, the haulage business definitely, but I’m not saying it takes in a lot, but puts out a hell of a lot because of the fuel costs. So I don’t know if it really makes an awful, it’s [laughs], it’s like everything else, it’s, if you enjoy doing it you’re as well just do it, aye, uh huh. [Slight pause] What else can I…? Oh, I don’t know.

HY: Did you [KT coughs] get involved in the, you know when the school did shut, do you, do you remember that and how people felt about it? And also there was kind of a committee set up afterwards to try and continue the events, did you get involved with that at the time, or was it just later? ‘Cause you have been chairman of the Community Association haven’t you on various occasions?

 

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KT: Ah, think so, aye, uh huh. Well, I was, well, in the days when the school was there, there was a, they had a, each school in the district had a sort of parents’ representative, and they all, and the teachers of the various schools, I think, you know, there was Crianlarich School, and what, we used to have sort of meetings in, in Killin, you know, usually, and, aye, I had the pleasure of being the parents’ rep, I think my father was that in his time as well. Cannae remember what we did really, you know [laughs], you went…

HY: [Laughing] Just go to meetings.

KT: You went to meetings with Mrs MacInnes, and then you came back home and had a dram with Mr MacInnes ‘n’ [[KT and HY laugh], shouldn’t better put that in [laughs]. Quite honest, I don’t know what, what we went to, you know there’s…but, well, aye, I think, aye, Willie, Margaret…he would be, Willie and Donna MacKenzie were the last two in the, you know when the school did close, I think, aye. But really there was, it wasn’t really justifying it to, to stay open, probably Sheena Chisholm will tell you more about that, she was, aye. [Slight pause] Aye, what did you say about the committee that…?

HY: Did you get involved? ‘Cause obviously when the school closed I think there was quite a lot of effort made to kind of keep go…some of the events going…

KT: Oh, I think so, aye, I suppose, aye.

HY: …that the school had been kind of responsible for, or at least…

KT: Aye, well, that’s, well I suppose the outing for example the, it was out…it was the school outing that, well it developed into being just the community outing, aye. [Slight pause] Aye, I suppose it just, aye well, there’s the Ardeonaig and Ardtalnaig Community Association, but it, that’s not all been, that’s not all that, you’re, aye you’re, but that’s the one...

HY: From what I can understand…

KT: That’s not that long…

HY: …it grew out of, of a council led kind of initiative to set something up…

KT: Did it? I can’t…

HY: …after the school shut.

KT: I cannae remember, aye, uh huh.

HY: And then it’s sort of got taken over more by the community I think.

KT: By the community, uh huh. I mean, there was never a community council in Ardeonaig, you know, I think I was the representative from Ardeonaig for a while.

HY: For the Killin one?

KT: Aye, just to Killin, aye, I mean, I’m not sure it was, who it, I don’t know, I was, I was never voted on, you know, just told you’d to go sort of thing, and then, aye, uh huh. I think they must have decided I was too old, so [HY laughs], well then they developed this KAT thing, Killin and Ardeonaig Association, I think, aye that’s…

HY: The Trust, yeah.

 

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KT: Aye, aye, uh huh. Rosemary, she’s on it.

HY: Yeah, it’s the charitable sort of arm of the Community Council isn’t it?

KT: Aye, uh huh, I think that’s what it is, aye, uh huh.

HY: And do you think with those Killin groups that, although it obviously says Ardeonaig in it, do you think Ardeonaig gets enough kind of say in things?

KT: Probably not, really, but I mean it probably hasn’t an awful lot [laughs], it always gets dragged in because, I think probably it’s one reason because, maybe the, because the church, well it, Ardeonaig used to have its own church and, but then, then it got sucked into Killin as well, so maybe that’s how, no matter what they do in Killin, Ardeonaig’s got to be tagged on, aye.

HY: ‘Cause that’s another interesting thing about here is, is the relationship between Ardeonaig and Ardtalnaig.

KT: Uh huh.

HY: And obviously that sits across a border now doesn’t it?

KT: Aye.

HY: And what, do you remember much about, I mean obviously the children from Ardtalnaig came to school here did they?

KT: Oh, aye, uh huh.

HY: And did you sort of feel you were part of the same community?

KT: Oh, oh definitely, aye, uh huh. Oh aye, I mean, well, quite often there was more kids came from Ardtalnaig than, [HY: Oh right] than there was actually in [35:00] Ardeonaig, uh huh, aye, uh huh.

HY: And, did they come along to, say, the bowling you mentioned, the carpet bowls [KY: They act…] or did they have their own?

KT: Ardtalnaig actually had a bowling club of its own, uh huh.

HY: Okay, did you compete against each other? [laughs]

KT: Ah well that was, that’s going back quite a long time ago they had, no but lat…lat…latterly they, their school kinda got, must’ve got, well Joe and Margaret [McLauglin] are staying in it now, but it must have been [slight pause], well I, I know they definitely stopped because quite a few of them came along to Ardeonaig, aye, uh huh. But then actually Ardeonaig more or less stopped and we, there was quite a few of us went along to bowl in Acharn [HY: Oh right], uh huh. Well Donald MacKenzie, he still goes along [HY: Oh really], aye, uh huh. [Slight pause] But, oh definitely was, well the Christmas parties, it was always Ardtalnaig and Ardeonaig [HY: Right] really that, things like that, well because it was the school there, you know, they were all, uh huh, uh huh.

HY: And do you think it made much of a difference when the, the council boundary came in? In kind of, more formally divided things…

KT: I [slight pause], it probably, probably did in a way, but och, no, I, you can count on your…

HY: People just get on.

 

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KT: You can count on your fingers, I mean there’s not really all that many residents in Ardtalnaig now really, well, probably as many in Ardtalnaig as there is in Ardeonaig when I think, when you think about it, you know, aye.

HY: And do you remember when they had the big kind of discussion about changing from Perthshire?

KT: I don’t really.

HY: You don’t remember that?

KT: I don’t think…

HY: Did it not bother you?

KT: Didnae bother me I don’t think [HY laughs]. No, I mean, you always knew that the boundary was the Manse Burn as we call it, and yet the, the parish boundary used to be the burn just on this side of Killin, you know at the Breaclaich, that Kenmore Parish we always understood went to there and that was, but it seemed quite funny, you know that…but we always say that Stirling seem to, they don’t, they seem to think that the burn at the hotel is, is their boundary ‘cause they never do anything [laughs].

HY: [Laughing] Don’t come this far, no, you get missed don’t you.

KT: Aye, aye, and yet the Tayside ones, they always, when they’re gritting the roads, they always come down and turn at the, along there, uh huh.

HY: Yeah, it’s often the roads that are kind of the thing people mention actually about the council, the different councils having a completely [KT: Oh aye] different standard, yeah.

KY: Different system, well it’s easy seen the, uh huh. I cannae think what else I can [word unknown], I’m afraid I’m not as big a blether as Mrs Taylor [laughs].

HY: Have you ever fished on the loch, or anything like that?

KT: I’ve salmon fished twice, yes. I just…

HY: [Laughing] Just on two occasions?

KT: Yes, on two occasions, uh huh. Once when I would be about [slight pause], probably about twelve, there was a, he actually worked on the, the chap, he worked on the farm but he was, he did ghilling as well, chap Donald Malloch, and he was a pretty good fisherman, I, I, I went, I was out, out with him for a whole day ‘cause I remember John my brother he would, he only stood it for half a day and he was just frozen [HY laughs]. And then, I don’t think we caught anything, but I can remember the, when we were, came into the jetty at the, below the hotel, Major Stevenson, he was, he was a very keen fisherman, that was Major Stuart Stevenson I suppose his name was, he had caught a salmon, I can remember that, but...and then I think I was out another afternoon, just for a cruise, but that’s all, and I’ve probably only been on, in a boat on the loch, if I’ve been ten times at the most it’ll be, uh huh, aye. But I some…I used to fish out the, the wee burns, the burn out the hill [HY: Oh right], there used to, used to be a lot of good fish out of there, uh huh, and you could always get your breakfast or, aye, I’ve seen, you know, when we used to be gathering out the hill we had just a walking stick and a, I wouldn’t say a bent pin, but, you know, we had a real hook, and we’d just tie it on our walking stick and get one or two when we were coming in the hill, uh huh [HY: Wow], but…

 

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HY: Do you think you’d be able to do that these days or are there not enough fish? [laughs]

KT: I don’t know, I don’t know if anybody tries it now or not, aye, uh huh. It’s fun…quite funny the burn, Allt a’ Mheinn burn, the Manse Burn as they call it, I don’t, there was never any fish out that burn at all, no, no.

HY: Really?

KT: Whether it’s something to do with the, the falls or what I don’t know, [40:00], aye, aye.

HY: Do you remember the great kind of, ‘cause at the Ardeonaig Hotel did they not used to have the launch of the salmon season in…

KT: Oh aye.

HY: Used to be a big event did it?

KT: Oh, it used to be a big, big event, aye, uh huh.

HY: When did that stop here then?

KT: [Pause] Don’t know, I, I know the Russells, when they had the hotel it was, you know, there was always a big lot of folk came for, for the opening day, that, when you think back that’s quite a while ‘cause the last, probably as a, as a fishing hotel it would be [slight pause] ten years ago at least that, you know, that there’s been, nobody’s bothered much about it [HY: Right], aye, uh huh. Oh, because it, my brother and I, you know, there was a, New Year there was a sort of big celebration but you sort of carried on till the opening of the fishing [HY: Oh yeah], which was the 15th, aye, uh huh. I mean there was quite a thing there, well I mean, Ardeonaig Hotel was, basically that’s what it was, a fishing hotel, that was just how it, uh huh.

HY: So people came to stay there to fish?

KT: Ah well, Mother and Father, they - did Margaret? Margaret said that – they ran it, they had the hotel as well when they came here first.

HY: Oh when they first came, uh huh.

KT: Uh huh, aye, and it…

HY: So did they run it as a fishing hotel?

KT: They ran…oh aye, definitely, it wasn’t licenced then at all.

HY: Oh, okay.

KT: But, so anybody that came had to bring their own, if they wanted anything to drink alcoholic they had to bring that. But, aye, it was actually quite busy, I, that’s what Dad said he would, he would have to, he changed up his clothes about three or four times a day ‘cause he had to go and speak to the guests in the hotel, and then come back and do some work here.

HY: That must have been quite a job to do.

KT: And, well Mum would be doing the cooking as well, I can’t…but there was an old gentleman, he actually, he was a very keen fisherman, and he, apparently, I can vaguely remember him, but he actually died in the hotel, been sitting, he’d come in off the loch and had been sitting in his chair, so he, all his fishing rods were left to me so [HY: Oh right] they’re still up, they’re still up in the top of

 

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the wardrobe upstairs, I’m afraid they’ve never been used very much. But, aye, I mean the, he was, this chap, I think he was a coal merchant in, he was Scottish, a coal merchant from Shotts or somewhere like that and, but he came every, you know, they didn’t come for just days, they came for two or three weeks [HY: Right] when they did come, uh huh. So, aye, it would, actually, the first year or two they would sort of run it themselves, but then they, they actually, they would get families in to sort of manage it for them [HY: Okay], you know [HY: Yeah], I think it was after I was born and, you know, they didn’t have the time so they got…there was, aye, because I always remember, Margaret’s on about this sale of work they had for, when the, the, for the soldiers that had been to the, they had a big sale of work here, and I remember, it must have been people that were in the hotel who had rabbits, and he had donated a rabbit to, and I, I was desperate keen to get this rabbit so I got the rabbit and I think the rabbit got away that night [laughs], so I never saw that rabbit again. But…

HY: So when did they give up the tenancy of the hotel then? [KT coughs]

KT: [Slight pause] Oh God, that’s, I’m hopeless at dates – when would the Ballantynes have?

HY: Was it sort of before you were kind of off to Oban?

[Margaret Taylor opens door and offers tea or coffee]

KT: [Speaking to Margaret] I wouldnae mind a coffee, I’ll get it. When did they give up the, when did the Ballantynes take the hotel?

Margaret Taylor [MT]: 1967.

KT: 1967, there you are, I told you…

MT: When they gave up the hotel?

KT: Well the Ballantynes would take, got it from…

MT: They took it in 1948.

KT: Who’s that?

MT: The Ballantynes took it.

KT: Did they?

MT: Yes, they came…

KT: Aye, I could tell you when they gave it up.

MT: Uh huh, so they gave it up…they took it over from your Dad in forty-eight.

KT: So, was it forty-eight they would have it.

MT: Think it was forty…forty-seven, forty-eight, so your mum said, uh huh.

KT: So, aye, I’m not doing very well, cannae blether like, no [recording paused].

HY: So your parents got rid of the, the hotel then…?

KT: Aye they gave up the lease of the hotel.

HY: …just was too much to do that as well.

 

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KT: Aye, it was just too much aye, uh huh. So aye there was, aye, the Ballantynes they had it for quite a long time, but it, it was…

HY: Did they not have a licence either? When did it become a licenced…?

KT: No, they didn’t have a licence, they probably should’ve had a licence [KT & HY laugh]. Probably heard of Eric and Mary. [45:00] But he also, he, the Ballantynes ran it as a, it was, he ran it as a wee farm, because there was a few fields actually went with the…

HY: Yeah, like the hotel has now or was it different land?

KT: More or less the same land, uh huh, and they had, actually the field below Helen’s [Taylor], [word unknown] they had it as well with the hotel, and what is now a fancy apartment was the actual byre [HY: Right], uh huh. Because, actually, I don’t know if you know, well you won’t know Janette Ferguson along in Ardradnaig, her, she and her husband actually, he, she worked in the hotel, Janet, and her husband was a ghillie and he also helped on the, well it wasn’t a farm, but it was actually, you know, they did quite a few cows, I’d forgotten that, the cows, uh huh. The, aye there would be probably around about 40 acres or something like that with the hotel, uh huh. But it’s all, well, it’s actually the bit just below the old school, it was, it was with the hotel as well, so, uh huh.

HY: ‘Cause, that’s one thing I hadn’t asked you, did your parents, and maybe you when you took over, did you kind of grow crops at all? More so then?

KT: Not really, I can remember we, we used to grow grain, but not in a big way. Oh, and that’s another thing, we, probably during the war, they called them the Government Tractors, it was paid for, well it was run by the Government, there was, they did, you had to plough ground, it was compulsory that you had to plough ground, x amount depending probably on the size of the place, and there would be sort of, think you might call them itinerant tractor…they’d all their machinery, tractors, ploughs, all on a trailer, and they’d go round all the places sort of doing ploughing like that, and then, and even at harvest time they would come as well, uh huh. And probably, I can just remember it, when we did grow grain, and that would be, that would be, must be nearly, at least sixty years ago, probably the last time we’d, we grew grain, and it was made into stacks, and there was a, it was a thrashing mill, it came round and your, it was taken off the stacks and put thr….the corn was, it was thrashed, and that was a job during the winter time [HY: Okay]. But, I mean, that’s, that’s a long, long time ago. I can just remember they had a hell of a job getting this, it was a pretty cumbersome machine they had, and they’d a job getting it out of the, out of the yard down there, uh huh. But, what else? No, we never, most of the crops that we ever grew was, was for winter feeding of the livestock on the place of the…well, at one time, it’s just within the past ten years that you feel the climate’s got so wet, I mean, we used, all, all our, all our cattle were wintered outside and did perfectly well, but now, you know, the ground just gets so wet in no time, so you’ve, we’ve just really had to invest in buildings to put them inside.

HY: So you’d say there’s a discernible difference between kind of the weather…?

KT: Oh the weather, I would say that’s, that’s probably another thing that, you tend to take it for granted but it’s very much more noticeable in the last five or six years even, I would say.

HY: Just that it’s more wet, is it essentially?

KT: Wetter, aye, uh huh, och, it probably is getting milder the…but, I would say it’s definitely an awful lot wetter because I’d friends that stayed in the Oban area, you know, maybe ten, twenty years ago, and we, they always said how much drier it was here, because years ago they had to put up sheds to keep their cattle in, and well we managed to get away without that, but now I think we’re

 

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catching up on them, aye, it really is, it’s, that is probably another big change that, that we don’t, you just sort of take it for granted, the weather, but it probably is pretty noticeable, aye. Well, 1947 there was it as a, [50:00] a memorable year for winter, you know, I can remember, I think I was the only one in Ardeonaig School that…nobody else could get, I, I managed to walk across the field, but I would be the only one there in 1947, aye.

HY: [Laughing] Was it quite cold in school then…or did they keep it nice and warm?

KT: No, I think we had a good, there was always a good fire in the school [HY: Was there a good…?], oh aye, uh huh, uh huh [laughs].

HY: So you don’t think the winters have got any worse then?

KT: No, I don’t think so, well, oh definitely not, probably last winters for a wee while was probably more like what they used, you know, I think probably we would have [slight pause], well before we had quad bikes you used to walk and it, it was pretty hard, och aye, I think, I think winters probably have got a bit better really, you know, uh huh, oh aye.

HY: And did you have any experience of the Brae Lodge? Like, of the different, I know there’s been different people owning it at different points, but, kind of, do you remember when the Barratts were in there or the previous owners? Did they kind of, what was their kind of involvement in the community? Were they always kind of a little bit separate?

KT: Barratt, Barratt, Mr Barratt was very much involved in the community, he really was, he was, he was…well [laughing] I think the main thing’s when we had hopeless television pictures then, and that was, that was the main thing I think, we had as many meetings about how to, how to get better television and we had funds, God I think there’s probably still a bank account for the tv mast [KT and HY laugh]. He was, he, he was probably one of the few that actually really got involved in, in the community, aye, and, och aye, well the kids went, Barry’s kids went to school and all the rest of it too, so aye.

HY: So prior to that though, the owners of it didn’t really..?

KT: Didn’t really no, well, aye there was a, there was a chap Balfour, he didn’t really, and wait a minute now, who was the [slight pause], oh aye, wait a minute now, I think there was a couple that ran it as a B and B [HY: Oh right]. God, I’m trying to…[words unknown]. He was, he, they were quite, they got quite involved in the local affairs a wee bit anyway, but no I suppose they weren’t really lairds, they didn’t, the ones before that were the lairds which sort of made them a different category, uh huh. But [slight pause], no as I say Barry [Barratt] was the one that, that certainly did do a fair bit, I would say he did quite a bit for the community really , aye, uh huh.

HY: And do you remember when the outdoor centre was set up?

KT: Ah, well the…

HY: Did that cause quite a stir?

KT: Not really.

HY: No? Was it not a bit different from just having, well I suppose you say it was a B and B before that.

KT: Och aye, it was, aye, it wasn’t [slight pause], it was never [slight pause], you wouldn’t say it was a focal point of the community anyway, you know, like, well the outdoor centre, they, well they just

 

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seem to… quite honest, because I was quite a wee bit away from it, it didnae bother, if you spoke to my brother or that he might have told you a different story. No, no, that’s, it didn’t, didnae bother us much at all, no. But it [slight pause], it probably was a good thing, you know, that it did end up something that it has done – what do you think yourself? [HY and KT laugh] I would say it, you know it’s…

HY: Well I’m interested in the outdoor centre, and maybe a little bit the hotel, of the fact that they brought quite a few people in to work here [KT: Uh huh] that, I mean obviously some of them don’t get involved in community things but there are some who do, and I wonder if that kind of just helps to…

KT: Well, I must admit now…

HY: …bring more people in?

KT: I think it’s, I would say it’s just recently that the outdoor centre, well apart from Phil [Simpson] have, are getting more involved in the, in the things in the community, uh huh. Well, yourselves cert…definitely have. But I mean for a while you never, they would never sort of come to anything at all, no, but I think latterly there was, och aye, Craig and there was quite a few of them coming to the bowls [HY: Oh right], uh huh. Aye, there was a, aye, few years ago, aye, uh huh.

HY: And I suppose the hotel staff maybe, certainly in recent years, haven’t really.

KT: Och, they didn’t, no not really, no.

HY: Were they just good, sort of, for being tenants in kind of empty sort of cottages and things?

KT: I think that’s all they did, that, well that’s within the [55:00] last few years, uh huh. But I [slight pause], no, none of the hotel staff really, well at one…going back a long time, the, quite a lot of the, there was a few of the local girls got work in the hotel, you know, some of the, well croft…Hamish McKinnon, his daughters, and they all, three, or four of them, they would all get jobs in the hotel, but och, that’s going back, that’s going back…

HY: Quite a few…

KT: …probably nearly fifty years, aye, so…

HY: So would you say the hotel’s changed quite a bit then, the kind of hotel and the community, in terms of, maybe even people going in to, when it had a licence did locals go in to kind of have a drink together, or…?

KT: The few locals that were there did, uh huh.

HY: And then you’re saying some people would work there, but that’s sort of disappeared.

KT: Oh, that’s disappeared, well I mean the, well basically it’s, it’s…it’s, it’s grown an awful lot since, probably in the last, God I’d probably say, it is probably going back thirty years since the, the Cooks had it, and he actually, the bit that was, was, used to be the byre, he actually, that’s when it was all brought in to be part of the hotel, you know [HY: Okay, yeah]. He actually, he was the one that, Bob Cook, he probably did the most to actually extend the hotel [HY: Right]. I know our last owner [Pete Gottgens] did quite a bit as well, but I think basically Bob Cook would actually, I mean, make it from being a pretty small establishment to, you know, more, more than just a family hotel, I would say he did then, aye, uh huh. God, there’s a lot of folk had, owned the hotel, or [words unknown]…or somebody’s owned it, I wouldnae…but [coughs], no I don’t think the [slight pause], it

 

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was never, it was never really a focal point for the community really, not really, not [slight pause], well maybe, I know, well there used to be a few of us, John and I and Willie, the three or four of us would have a committee meeting along there to see what we’d be doing the next day, but it was never really [noise from microphone] – I better watch what I’m doing.

HY: Not broader than that though?

KT: No…no, no.

HY: And the only other question I had for you really, going back to the farming side, was do you remember the, well obviously you do, the markets?

KT: In Killin and Aberfeldy?

HY: Yep.

KT: Oh aye, uh huh.

HY: When did those finish, roughly, like is it the last kind of twenty, thirty years that they…?

KT: Oh definitely, it cannae be much more than, well it might be [pause], it’s definitely between, it could be over twenty years now really when I think about it, aye.

HY: And did that make a big difference when they shut, or were you just sort of minded to then go, was it Stirling you had to go to?

KT: We went to Stirling as well because, I mean, they were basically they were just seasonal sales in [HY: Right], the sales in Killin and Aberfeldy were usually just sort of in the back end, Septem…September, October, you know, and if you’d to sell anything else you had to go to Stirling anyway [HY: Okay]. But, I mean, the, your haulage costs were next to nothing compared with what they are now. And, actually, buyers used to enjoy the, there’s old chaps – old chaps - our buyer that still talk about, you know, how they enjoyed coming to the Killin markets, and they came from, I’m saying, pretty far and wide, I mean, they would come from [slight pause] well Aberde…well up in Aberdeenshire, to well down in the borders to buy, to buy lambs. But, och, I mean, they were, but I suppose it’s like everything else, it’s all got to be bundled together. You know, it probably justified lo…I’m saying, lorries to carry a hundred lambs then, but, you know, it’s, that’s it now, you need lorries with a capacity of four or five hundred to take them this hundred miles, you know, the cost of fuel and the cost of everything it’s, doesn’t really justify the, but…

HY: And did you go to Aberfeldy much other than the markets? ‘Cause I’m always interested, people tend to focus on Killin here…

KT: Well it’s funny Marg…funny she didn’t say because when my mother was on the go she always [1:00:00] went to a physio in Aberfeldy, and that’s what Margaret said, she, there was a few years that she tended to just go to Aberfeldy, and, uh huh. It was, you know, that’s, for quite a number of years the, that’s what she did, the, Aberfeldy was the, the place to go [HY: Yeah], uh huh. But, I mean, it’s, Aber…Aberfeldy now and, and Killin, I see they’re, seem, they’re definitely not thriving places really, you know, it’s sad to see them the way the shops are all shutting and things, aye, aye [slight pause].

HY: That’s brilliant, well I think that’s a good place to leave it, thank you very much.

KT: Okay.

[Recording ends]

 

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Appendix 3: Oral history transcripts

3.8 Margaret Taylor

Name of interviewee: Margaret Taylor (MT) [nee Campbell]

Gender: Female

Date of birth: 10th September, 1940

Place of birth: Mid Lix Farm, By Killin, Scotland

Date of interview: Thursday 12th January, 2012

Name of interviewer: Helen Louise Young (HY)

Audio length: 1 hour 12 minutes 14 seconds. Five minute time markers are given in [ ].

HY: Okay, if you just want to confirm your full name, date of birth and place of birth for me.

MT: Margaret Taylor and I was born Margaret Campbell at Mid Lix Farm by Killin on the tenth of September 1940.

HY: Brilliant, so just to start of then, how did you come to live in Ardeonaig?

MT: Basically I met Kenneth Taylor, well I knew Kenneth Taylor, and we got married in 1963, and I came down to Ardeonaig then and I’ve been there ever since. I got married on the fifth of March 1963, and 1963, I don’t know, you won’t remember obviously, but it was one of the worst winters [Oh, right] there had been, forty-seven and sixty-three, much, much worse than last year.

HY: Worse as in really snowy and cold?

MT: Really snowy, the snow came about, I think it was about the nineteenth of January or towards, about the nineteenth/twentieth of January the snow came, and it snowed and it snowed, and the roads were all blocked. In fact the railway was blocked coming up Glen Ogle, and I think it’s the only time that the train going to Oban was stuck in the snow, the main train, the little branch line from Killin was quite often [slight pause], well not quite often but did get stuck, but not the mainline and the mainline, because Kenneth’s aunts were on the train, they had been in Glasgow buying outfits for our wedding and were heading back to Oban, and they got returned to Stirling. So that [laughs], so that, that was the day the snow came and it really was, and then the frost came and we had hard frost, and on the fifth of March, the day of our wedding, the thaw came, and there were floods everywhere going…and they couldn’t go, because the snow was banked up, oh twelve foot, twenty foot, where there had been, just cuttings had been taken, the blowers had been through, and there was just a cutting you could go through, and the water could go nowhere. [Laughs] And it was, it was some day [laughs].

HY: Yeah, so was that Killin church?

MT: That was in Killin church, uh huh. We had to get out from Mid Lix, up our road, which was no mean feat, in a fancy [laughing] wedding dress and fancy headdress and veil [quietly] but we got there. But that was it, so it was really a very, very bad winter.

 

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HY: And how did you meet Kenneth then?

MT: Probably, originally, you met people at the sale, market in Killin, and then we were in the Young Farmers Club together, and [slight pause] we all went around in a, a group of us. We had, we had really a very nice kind of free teenage years, we, but we would go miles to dances on a Friday night. Joe McLaughlin, Margaret’s husband, he was shepherding in the neighbouring farm to where I was, and there was a brother that worked, Kenneth had a car which was very handy and he drove, and [slight pause] we used to, oh, every Friday night we would be at dances, Balquhidder, Strathyre, even went as far as Kilmartin in Argyll, Bridge of Orchy, Dalmally, to dances and then on a Saturday night we went down to the Crown Hotel in Callander, there was dances and they always had good Scottish dance bands there, so went down there on a Saturday night. And that’s, that’s how I met Kenneth really, we met through the Young Farmers Club in [slight pause] Killin.

HY: So what sort of age would you have been going to dances and stuff? You said teenage, but when would that have started?

MT: Oh, ah well, seventeen, from seventeen onwards [slight pause], uh huh, seventeen/eighteen.

HY: So did the Young Farmers have regular meetings then?

MT: Yes, we met every month in, in Killin. There was a Young Farmers Club in Killin, there was a Young Farmers Club in Aberfeldy, but Killin Club were in what, the West Area, Aberfeldy were in the East Area, and never the twain [5:00] should meet [laughs]. We met occasionally for, maybe inter-club quiz nights but no, it was, we, we were in West Perthshire group which was Crieff, Strathearn Young Farmers as they were called, Allan Water which was in about the Blackford, Braco area, Killin, and there was at that time an Agricultural School in Comrie Lawers School, and they had a, a Young Farmers Club in Lawers in the school. So that was the group that we worked with, the West Perthshire group of Young Farmers, and Aberfeldy were in the East Perthshire group and then the East Area, we were in the West Area of Scotland and that. Oh the Young Farmers were, it was a very good club in Killin, a very strong, I think it started about 1948, and we had great fun. They, they were quite a successful club, they would win speech-making competitions, several years for the, they won the national, Killin two or three times, and they would certainly win the West of Scotland one and they had top shearer, and quite a good Young Farmers Club. But then, it was in, I think it was [slight pause] I can’t remember when the Foot and Mouth came, was it about the end of the Sixties? There was an outbreak of Foot and Mouth, there was an outbreak of Foot ‘n’…

HY: Later than that as well, wasn’t there.

MT: …and the meetings stopped, and then just never started [HY: Oh no] again, it was. But then there’s fewer, and fewer people, it was…when I left school, and when I was in the Young Farmers, all the farms round-about had either sons or daughters at home and shepherds and there was a lot more people employed in the farming world, you know, it was really…

HY: So was it, people who went to the Young Farmers then, were they from sort of farming families, or, like…

MT: Yes, or…

HY: …the children of shepherds?

MT: …or they were interested. Yes, but there was some from the village, anybody...

HY: Anyone could come?

 

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MT: Yes, there was from the village as well, and anybody that was interested in rural pursuits, and it was, it really, it still is a very good organisation for [slight pause], I don’t know, they started, the Young Farmers started up Killin Show again when I was in, in 1950, well they had a sheep-shearing competition, which they held in, well a clipping competition as we, and they held that round in the old market before and we had a dog show, and they had a, a produce stall, they really didn’t have a produce show but they had a produce stall. And they did that for years, and then in 1957 they, they started the show in the field which was re-starting it because it had been on the go prior to the war, and then I think there was one show held about 1946 or ’47 after the war, but that was all, you know, and as far as I understood the Killin Show pre-war from what I understood was Atholl and Breadalbane, same lot as run the Aberfeldy Show, and it sort of altern…alternated between Killin and Aberfeldy, I think through the thirties and that, and, but then Aberfeldy kept their, their show, started up after the war and it kept going, and Killin stopped. But then, as I say, in fifty-seven, but when I say that, that doesn’t seem that long after it had really stopped. When it started in fifty-seven it seemed to me as if it had been [laughing] a lifetime [HY: Yeah] since the show had been.

HY: So were there other groups for the young people? Like was there a Boys’ Brigade?

MT: Oh there was badminton, there wasn’t, there were Guides, Brownies and Guides. There weren’t Scouts when I was young, but there was a football team in Killin, quite a good football team. There was a badminton club, a very keen badminton club, Scottish Country Dancing [slight pause], but there wasn’t really a youth group as such in the village then, there was after that, in the sixties I think a youth group started up, and the Boys’ Brigade started, I think about seventy…I think it was about the early seventies, when Harry Lawrie was the Sergeant in Killin, and got it started the Boys’ Brigade [10:00] Like San…our Sandy went to Boys’ Brigade, but there wasn’t [pause], that’s, I don’t think there was anything else that I can think of at the…[slight pause]. I suppose, I don’t know that [slight pause], you didn’t look for, look to be entertained, you made your own entertainment, I mean you really, that’s what you were saying was there a, things for the young ones to go to, but we enjoyed the Young Farmers, very much. But I think the ones who didn’t go to the Young Farmers, I don’t think they felt deprived, you know, in the village, I don’t…as I say, the football club was quite good, quite strong.

HY: What were the other sort of social activities that maybe your parents would have done? Were there kind of gatherings, or not?

MT: No, well, where I lived up at Mid Lix, Ardchyle, the community of Ardchyle which is, there was a school at Ardchyle, you know where I mean? Half way to Luib [HY: Uh huh] going on the…there was a school there and the lady who was the teacher there, she ran a social every third Tuesday, in Ardchyle we had a social and that involved half, like, twelve games of whist, and then we had a dance, and that was a great thing the social. The socials were really amazing, they worked with no committee, it was really the teacher, Miss Macintyre as she was then, and she organised it and everybody who went to it took their turn on the committee, brought the prizes, and we all brought our own tea for what we were having at the social, and then, but so every, there would be three on the committee who saw to the tea, the cups, making the tea, and what the prizes for the whist for that night, and the local, it was just a local band who played, the Glen Players as we called them, and Siobhan Anderson – you know who I mean by Siobhan who’s quite, very musical, very successful musician now in Killin? - her grandfather and her grandmother played the piano at it and before that [laughing] her great-grandfather and great-grandmother were there. And we had a great wee band up in the west for the dance, it was good.

HY: So was that the school you went to then?

 

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MT: No, I didn’t, I went to Killin school.

HY: You did.

MT: Because we got the bus to Killin school, and I got the bus, got picked up, the school car picked us up at the end of the road, but prior to the war I think the people from Glenoglehead went to Ardchyle school because I know our neighbours, they went to the school in Ardchyle when they were younger, you know, they were…and they had gone to Ardchyle school, but I think, and yet during the war, me and my brother started school, in 1941 and he went to Killin school, the school car was running then, but there were quite a few folks living at Glenoglehead then because it was like a, a railway, there was railway cottages, there were four cottages, so there were actually four families in these cottages, one very big family, there was one family [slight pause] so there were quite a lot of kids went from there down to Killin school. But the ones from [slight pause] Leskine, just beyond, the next farm from Lix Toll going west, they, and the ones all up at Auchlyne and Luib and that, they went to Ardchyle school, it was just a one teacher school just like Ardeonaig.

HY: So when you were younger, before you maybe knew Kenneth and things, were you aware of this sort of lochside community here? Was there much more of an awareness of…?

MT: Oh yes, I was, well I was always aware of it because my, my grandmother lived over at Lawers, and my aunts, my father’s sisters, lived in Kenmore, and the bus from Killin went down to Kenmore, went down this side, the Ardeonaig side of the loch. Far as I can remember, first of all I think it ran twice a week, but Kenneth’ll keep you right on this, and if my aunts were coming to visit they came up, [15:00] because living in Kenmore, the bus from Killin going to Aberfeldy didn’t go into Kenmore, it went over by Fearnan, and down that way the Killin bus. It went via Fearnan and then it must have been round, because they couldn’t get up from Kenmore, they had to go into Aberfeldy to get the Killin bus if they were coming up the other side, if they didn’t get the bus that went up the south side of the loch, and the south side of the loch one went [slight pause] from, I think it was, it was twice a week to begin with but I think latterly it was just once a week. Please don’t ask me, the buses were off before I came to live here [laughs]. I don’t, I think it would be in the fif…fifties, maybe late fifties that the bus went off the south side of the loch. But the north side was still on. But we went from Killin School, well Killin School at that time was a junior secondary, and if you passed your qualifying in Primary Seven, the dreaded qualifying, you went to Callander, to school in Callander or you stayed in Killin and…

HY: What, if you didn’t pass you’d stay in…?

MT: If you didn’t pass, you stayed in Killin until you were fifteen. [Slight pause] That was as it was when, when I was in my teens and that, so, but you went on the train to Callander, I stayed in a hostel in Callander because where I lived it wasn’t possible to go every day, and we didn’t have a car, [thinking] we did - how did we have a car? – maybe we just got a car about that time, but cars were not for taking children to school, you had to walk to Killin Junction, you know.

HY: And they didn’t put a bus on for the…?

MT: Oh, no, no, there were no buses, the buses, it was the trains that went, and the train went from Killin, as we talked about the wee pug, I mean it went every day to Callander, well you went, they left in the morning and got the morning train, I think it left about a quarter to eight the train from Killin, the wee pug up to Killin Junction met the Oban, and they went down on the main train, but then in the afternoon the train from Killin went down to Callander and picked up the ones who travelled every day from Killin and took them back to Killin, at four o’clock. But I stayed in a hostel so I really, ‘cause if, if you travelled on the train every day from Killin you couldn’t get involved in sports things

 

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or, and I liked my hockey and…but apart from that it was just from where we lived ‘cause I walked to the junction on a Monday morning and quite often, well usually did, on a Friday evening, if I came home on the Friday evening, but quite often I stayed till Saturday because it was, and I came home, and I always got dropped off by the wee pug, as we talked about, it would drop me off just down below Mid Lix, and I just got to run across the field, so. But they didn’t pick you up, you walked to the junction in the mornings, but, but they dropped me off and that was, so just had to run across the field. I don’t know what they would say today, ScotRail or that [laughing] would have something to say about it, health and safety, and if there anybody in, an inspector or anybody on the train that was sort of, that the guard or the drivers decided was in an official capacity they would say [mimicking], “Oh, we’ve dropped a shovel down, we’ve got to stop and pick up a shovel.” So that’s how they stopped and I jumped out the other side [laughs].

HY: [Laughing] That’s brilliant.

MT: I suppose it was.

HY: Very inventive. So when you came to Ardeonaig, then, when you got married, where did you move to? You wouldn’t have moved in here?

MT: No, we went to Ashburn, to the, Ashburn, and we were there for a few years, Sandy was born in Ashburn, and we moved over when Liz, Liz was probably born in it, we moved over at the beginning of September, Liz was born on the 28th August, and we moved over the beginning of September in 1966, and we’ve been here since. But Kenneth was just moving back home if you know what I mean, ‘cause it was just like…[slight pause], but at that time [slight pause], at that time Dall and, was a tenanted farm, you know there was a, [20:00] a laird who owned what they called Ardeonaig Estate, and Dall was, and Margbeg, Kenneth’s dad and his uncle ran it, and Tullochan was on the Ardeonaig Estate, the hotel was in Ardeonaig Estate. Not the lodge, because the lodge had been – the outdoor centre – it had been sold off privately by the previous owners of the Estate, they sold the house separate from the land [HY: Okay]. We came here, when I came here it was a Colonel Mitchell who was the Estate owner and Madame Stuart Stevenson had left the lodge, she had, she had been the previous Estate owner and she was in the outdoor centre, Tigh-nan-Dileachdan as she called it. But then it was, Colonel Mitchell bought the Estate and it was a, a Mr, Mrs Balfour who bought the lodge, and called it Ardeonaig…Brae Lodge, they just called it Brae Lodge, think they changed it from Tigh-nan-Dileachdan, and they were there just for a year or two, and then I think…But then Kenneth, then in 1967 the Estate, well Colonel Mitchell sold the Estate to [slight pause] – can I remember his name? Kenneth’ll tell you – and, anyway, this gentleman bought the Estate, he was from Lincolnshire and he bought the Estate, but it really wasn’t what he was looking for, and Kenneth’s dad and uncle, they bought the Estate from him because he got a farm that he was, more suit…an Estate more suitable for what he was looking, and they, they bought it, and sold off Fra…Joan, Tullochan was, Joan’s dad got it. They took on Brae Farm, which had been in the Estate’s hands before, Brae Farm was the only farm that wasn’t tenanted before then, you know, the other farms were tenanted, so Kenneth’s dad, they took it on. Sold the hotel, sold the cottages up at Brae, and that was when they bought, and then, so then Kenneth and his brother John, Grandpa Taylor and Uncle Hamish who was is Margbeg, he was not married, he lived with his sister in Margbeg, they bought it. So that’s really when it came into our own hands, was in 1967.

HY: Did that make much of a difference? I always wonder how different it was for people going from sort of being tenants to owning and…

MT: Oh yes, because, yes, you could…you could, you could go and, when you have, when you have a laird you are very much, if the laird decides he’s going to shoot or going to stalk on a certain day, and

 

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it’s the day you want to be gathering your sheep, you have to adhere to [HY: Right, yeah], you could do the things, run your farm as you wanted to run the farm. The only thing is [slight pause], it’s definitely got advantages because we were never terribly interested in the stalking side, and I suppose [slight pause], but nowadays, I mean, land, in today’s world, we could never ever afford to buy the Estate. I would say from what you make from a farm, yes you can make a living, and quite a comfortable living but it’s not, land values have gone up so much more that your farm would never generate the money to…

HY: If you had to buy it now to start farming, you couldn’t do it.

MT: If you had to buy it, you’re talking millions, you know, it would, goodness knows what the whole of the Estate would have been, you know, would’ve. But at that time, and I mean, Tullochan was Joan’s father and mother, were in it, well every, I think every, every [25:00] tenanted farmer would like to own their own land and I think they would like to just [slight pause] be that bit, you know, there’s times it’s, it’s certainly the only way I think that young ones can go into farming in the future, is to get a chance to, to break into it is to be tenants, you know, if some… No, it was, would have said we were very, very lucky at the time, just at the time.

HY: And how did you find moving to Ardeonaig? I mean, was it very different to your experience, ‘cause you talked about the community events you had there? Did you come [MT: Yeah, well…], come here and think it’s very much the same or?

MT: Oh, no, I thought, I thought I was coming to, to a metropolis because coming from Mid Lix where you had no neighbours [laughing], Lix Toll, and you come down to Ardeonaig and you’ve got people within yards, well a few yards of you, you could go, and there was a school just about half a mile along the road and we had things, there was a hall then too and they had their ceilidhs and their whist drives in the hall although it was never a very successful venue, the hall. But we had that, and that was [laughing] much busier place than where I came from, but similar. And I, I did know most of the folks round this area [slight pause], not maybe well but I knew, and you met at the mar…the market was on so you knew the places, the farms that were selling and that, you knew their names.

HY: So coming in, did you kind of feel like it, you, it took a few years for you to really get your feet under the table, or did you automatically just feel comfortable here and people accepted you and…or was it more a process of you come in and you, year on year you become a bit more established or?

MT: Probably [slight pause], probably, but I mean you came into a community, you either [slight pause], I don’t know, I [slight pause], I had never moved before, and I’ve only moved from Mid Lix to here so I really don’t know what it’s like to [slight pause]. But I think I came in accepting everybody who was here before me, had been here forever, if you know what I mean, not thinking that people came in here, there was people I was meeting who hadn’t been that long here. Grandpa Taylor always used to quote an old neighbour here who said if you lived, I think it was twenty or thirty years on Lochtayside they might come to your funeral, you know [MT & HY laugh]. But I don’t, I didn’t, I mean I couldn’t, I couldn’t say I felt that, I just…but having said that, having lived in it now, I realise – but, can’t explain – I realise that you, I’ve seen people, families come and go, you almost know, it seems, when somebody comes into the community, you know if they’re going to be here for a while, you know, you get people come in, and yes they want to change things, and, but then they move on [slight pause], and it’s the local ones who are left to cope with the, the changes that have been made, and not necessarily what would have been, probably to, you know. But we all have to look outwards, we can’t look inwards all the time. But I do, you know…well Ardeonaig Hotel is one, I mean Ardeonaig Hotel has changed hands so often, and everyone that’s come has hoped to [slight

 

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pause] do wonders with it [30:00], making it…I don’t think any of them who have come have thought, “Oh, I’m only going to stay a couple of years and then move on”, but I, I think they’ve come with the intention of, “Yes well, we’re here, we’re here forever”, and then they go off.

HY: And in terms of the kind of community things that went on, you mentioned sort of whist drives and dances, were they kind of regular, a regular thing on the calendar that people, is that when people got together or was it more just…?

MT: Yeah, through the winter there were annual dances, now [slight pause], I mean, prior to my teens, but when I was in my teens, twenties and thirties, there were annual dances in Lochearnhead Hotel. Now, Lochearnhead Hotel is no more, but Lochearnhead Hotel was the venue for all these things and sort of from [slight pause] Feb, all through February, March till the hotel opened up there would be functions in Lochearnhead Hotel. There was Balquhidder farmers, there was the, the Young Farmers had their annual dance, the Masons had their annual dance, and there were, Lochearnhead Games had their annual dance, and there was sort of ceilidhs, there were ceilidhs that were held as well. So these were the main things that were on, but there would always be an odd whist drive in Killin, but I, I myself, I never went to a whist drive in Killin, I went to the ones in Ardchyle but not in Killin, but there would be the ones, there were one or two, but not, not an awful lot, but they had this annual, these annual dances which were very grand affairs, you know, you got all dressed up and had a lovely, lovely time, a beautiful buffet in Lochearnhead, there, there was just a wonderful place, venue to have functions. [Slight pause] I don’t know, but I think people were more sociable, you know [slight pause], people would visit, not nec…I can’t explain this Helen ‘cause – I maybe should stop this ‘cause – sometimes I think nowadays we look to be entertained, I don’t, wasn’t consciously aware that we entertained or were being entertained, but we had lots of folks coming to stay, lots of folks coming to visit. We would have nights, and we had lovely, you know, they were…but I’m not saying that we were aware that we had to be entertained as such, you know, you just enjoyed somebody coming in to your…

HY: And was that, was that a lot of family visiting each other or was it broader than that, like was it people you knew in the district?

MT: Maybe families visiting, families [pause], yes...

HY: Just generally people you knew.

MT: …well, it was Mrs MacInnes who start..Ard..started, she was the teacher in Ardeonaig when our youngsters started, they all started with Mrs MacInnes, and she really started the Rural and that really got, I would have said, more folk, I don’t think there was anything, I think there was a drama club when Kenneth was young, you know, there was a drama club in Ardeonaig and it was quite well supported [slight pause], but Mrs MacInnes, who was the teacher, was really very good at getting us all, the whole community together to things, and she started the Rural, and I think…

HY: That was in seventy-one was it?

MT: That’s about seventy, I…

HY: Seventy-two, sorry.

MT: Seventy-two? I don’t… I didn’t go until, till after Willie was born, I wasn’t at the, the Rural at the start because it just wasn’t easy, you had four children. We had a Gaelic class in Ardeonaig too, Mrs MacInnes was keen on her Gaelic and…

HY: What, so she ran that too did she, kind of outside of school?

 

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MT: She, she, yes well, she was the, well it was in the school that we had it, [35:00] but we’d had a Gaelic class, I’d gone to a Gaelic class in Killin prior, before I was married there was a headmaster in Killin [Neil MacGill] with a, an Islay man, and he took a Gaelic class that was very good, so I’d always had an interest in it. But, Mrs MacInnes probably was the one who really got this community, as it is, as you, well not as it is, but you know, this feeling that we do things as a community, I would say more, ‘cause I think probably prior to that people did things more individually. There would always be the outing from Ardeonaig school [slight pause], and – this is where you need Kenneth you see, I don’t, I mean [slight pause]…

HY: And at this time as well because the school in Ardtalnaig had closed just prior to the war, it linked, the two communities kind of linked more [MT: Yes], because of the school.

MT: Yes, and the church was always sort of, Ardtalnaig Church sort of, Ardeonaig Church served both places [noise from other room], I don’t…[ Margaret calls to her husband], Kenneth.

HY: [Quietly] That’s alright I’ll do him later. [Pause]

MT: No, I don’t know…

HY: ‘Cause that’s another thing I was going to ask you as well is, like, did you have friendships with people in Ardtalnaig? Did you feel, [MT: Oh, yes] ‘cause I know Killin is a big kind of focus maybe, we’ve talked a lot about Killin, did you kind of look towards the other side of the loch ever?

MT: Well I…

HY: I mean you had family, [MT: Yes, yes] didn’t you.

MT: Yes, well Ken…well Kenneth, I mean, the Forbes who were farming in Claggan, I mean Kenneth would, yeah they would always be neighbour…I suppose this is the difference that has gone, at that time farms neighboured with each other, they all were, you know, they went to a clipping, there was, if they went to Kindrochit, say, there was ones who were in Claggan, there was the Keddies who were in Kepranich, and there would be the ones who were in Wester Tullich, and the ones in Dall and that. They all went to clippings there, clipping at Dall, shearings at Dall, they came from east and from west, you know. That, I suppose, that kind of bound communities together [slight pause], and I’m not very, and everybody was somehow or another agriculturally related. It was [slight pause], even in the cottages, you know, they were usually [pause], the hotel I suppose, but the hotel had a farm too. And, the, the people who worked, there would be the ones who worked in the Lodge, in the, you know, the chauffeur and handyman and that, that they had up at the Lodge. But I suppose really, I would have probably said it was the agricultural work that bound them together really, doing things together.

HY: And has that changed quite a bit since you’ve been here then? Have you noticed a difference in it…

MT: Oh yes, that’s definitely changed, definitely changed quite a lot because there’s just not the number of people on the places, you know, there’s just, and [slight pause] they get contractors in to do jobs and [pause]…

HY: When did the sort of contractors really start to? It doesn’t need to be precise.

MT: I should have thought about this before you came, now, you’re making me think now and I cannae think and speak. [Pause] Well, I don’t, they, they, the con…they would start somewhere about the sixties I think the contractors would start coming in to do the shearing, clipping. Before

 

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that [pauses and lifes] life must have been much more leisurely then, apart from people, because, I mean, I know and can speak from my own as a child at Mid Lix where we’d only got [40:00] three or four hundred ewes altogether, and they were gathered and there would be about seven people gathering them, and if it was a wet day it couldn’t go on. It’s my poor mother when I think about it had the, she’d to feed them, and oh they might go and they might play [laughing] putting the shot or they might do water divining was another thing, while they waited for the sheep to dry. Well you see then, there just wasn’t the manpower to do that, to waste the time, you know, to do the socialising, and yet they would work hard before [slight pause], I don’t, I don’t know when, it’s just a gradual thing Helen, it’s just, it’s when you suddenly realise - when did it really stop? [pause] – I mean, probably, I’m going to say you’re probably as nearly a traditional way in this side of the loch as you are, will be anywhere, because, well the boys are up Glen Lochay now, it’s all, it’s all they take in people just to do their days and then…There’s not the people resident in the area at all. Gosh, I don’t know, I’m kind of floundering here Helen, I really am, I’m stuck.

HY: So if the, if the Rural, ‘cause the Rural was always just for the women, is that right?

MT: Yes.

HY: So what did the men, how did the men socialise?

MT: Oh, they had their carpet bowls, they had, in Ardeonaig they had their carpet bowls and they had a social club in Ardeonaig, but I think there was women at it too.

HY: Oh right.

MT: And I suppose that was, I wasnae thinking about the carpet bowls earlier on, there were [slight pause] – what else did they have in Ardeonaig?

HY: I know they had a curling club very early in the century, but I don’t know how long that lasted.

MT: Aye, it would just, well every community would have an ice, a curling pond, and it wouldn’t really, it would just be everyone got together when the weather was cold and frosty and it was something to do, you know, as opposed to an official club. I think I’m right that the Earl of Breadalbane gave a trophy for all the curling clubs in the ar…like Ardeonaig would be one, don’t know where, for them to have their bonspeil and that.

HY: You don’t know where the curling pond was?

MT: Well, there was one – I’m frightened to say the wrong thing here – [HY: No, it’s fine] I think there was one about, opposite the old Post Office at Pol-Lairige, in, going in there, and I think then there was one out in the hill on Tullochan, out near the march over, with the crofters, there was one out there, but I suppose you’d have to be really quite keen to get away out there to…

HY: Yeah, I think the one I’ve seen in the valuation rolls must be the one…

MT: One at Pol’Lairig.

HY: Yeah, uh huh.

MT: That would be uh huh. But if you notice, this isn’t necessarily for your recording at all, but if you notice where curling ponds are, where old curling ponds are, you look at your thermostat in your car and you’ll see it’s lowest where they, they chose their spot [HY: Cold point], yep they did, they knew what they were doing, you know [HY: Yeah, yeah]. It’s amazing, ‘cause you’ll, you’ll often pass and think, “Gosh, look at that it’s away down there” [laughs]

 

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HY: Yeah, makes sense doesn’t it.

MT: They chose their spot well.

HY: And you talked about the hotel, I mean, decades ago it was much more of a, people would, the locals would just drop in and drink there would they or not?

MT: No, no, no, it didn’t have a licence as such, there wasn’t a licence, they had what they called a table licence, but Kenneth’s mum and dad ran the hotel through the, during the war [HY: Oh, okay], and, again it was tenanted, it was part of the Estate, and they, people brought their own drink, you know, they, the fish…it was really more a fishing hotel, I think it had five bedrooms, just, and just a real wee country hotel.

HY: So when you say a fishing hotel, what people came to stay to fish?

MT: [Speaking over] To fish, they came, just now the fifteenth of January was the big day, it was, even, och, right up until, oh I would say till the late seventies, eighties, the fifteenth of January was the opening of the fishing in Ardeonaig [HY: Right], and, I mean, we’ve had tv cameras and all down here, filming the opening of the fishing. Piper, it was a great day, the kids went down from the school, [45:00] down to the sh...to the, and that was, you know, I suppose the women just stayed, but maybe the women didn’t, aye, the women, the wives came too. Some of them fished, but mostly it would be men who went out to fish, and there would be, the local fellows would become ghillies for a day, they would take their fishing, you know, the ghillies with the hotel, and they went out.

HY: So did you ever go out fishing?

MT: No, Kenneth did, Kenneth, but not really, no I never went our fishing. I’d like to go out in a boat and see the, see the shoreline from a, but I’ve no desire to sit and get cold in a boat.

HY: ‘Cause you don’t see many people out fishing [MT: No] these days really.

MT: Well, there’s just now, I mean, as I say the fifteenth of January you would, out on the loch there would be boats from, well from Killin, from every place that had a permit, a fishing permit, there would be maybe five out from Ardeonaig, five lots out from Ardeonaig, and one out from the Lod…outdoor cen…the Lodge they had one permit and Ardtalnaig, Lawers. Well, there was, there were lots of boats out on the loch on the fif…and then, in wild days, I’ve seen the fifteenth of January a really stormy day, and the boats would be out there tossing about. But, it’s hard to believe this year there’s not even, the hotel’s not even going to be open on the fifteenth of January. [Slight pause] But it was, that’s what it would, Loch Tay would be quite a noted salmon fishing place, Loch Tay salmon would be quite the thing, you know, and Kenmore I think still do the opening, they still do the opening in a big way but, and then the River Tay but not the loch. [Pause] They had a great day.

HY: So do you have a fishing permit?

MT: We have at Dall, yes.

HY: But you don’t get to use it much, no?

MT: Well it’s usually somebody, it’s usually, there’s a fellow comes up from Balloch, he uses it mostly, and sometimes the hotel use it and that, but it’s [slight pause], I don’t know [knocks microphone], keep touching this sorry. No, I’ve never gone fishing at all.

HY: ‘Cause it’s finding the time, isn’t it. For Kenneth and stuff I’m sure there’s not that much time for him to get out and about.

 

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MT: Yeah, and it’s such a, never been into the sort of shooting, sporting side of, they’ve been farmers at heart and that’s what they, that’s their main love and their main interest, but not saying there’s [slight pause], they can’t do, you know [laughs], but it’s, Kenneth, he did fish, he used to, in the wee burns, just there, there used to be lots of trout in the burns but they’re not there now. Would go out the hill, I mean they would catch fish out in the burn out the hill and take them home for a, would have them. But there’s just not the fish, doesn’t seem to be the fish in the wee burns now that there once was. ‘Cause even when our family were young, I mean Liz would spend her days when the days were getting warmer and the burn was drying up into wee pools, she would go and rescue the fish in her buckets and we had to see the fish in the sink here, and then she took them down to the loch [HY and MT laugh]. That was the way she entertained, they entertained, she loved doing that, used to say she had Velcro in her fingers ‘cause she could catch a fish and I could never, she’d say, “Look at that” [laughs].

HY: And did all your children go to Killin?

MT: No they went to Ardeonaig.

HY: Oh, sorry, that’s what I meant. They went to Ardeonaig, yeah.

MT: They went to Ardeonaig yes, and then they went to Aberfeldy [HY: Right] [50:00]. They all finished in Ardeonaig, but they, they had a ve…I felt, a very good schooling in Ardeonaig, it was one teacher.

HY: Was it the same teacher throughout for them or did it change?

MT: Sandy and Liz had only Mrs MacInnes, from start, Sandy actually started with, when Mrs MacInnes was, he was, his class were her first class in Ardeonaig, and then Liz and [corrects herself] Kirsty and Willie, Mrs Chisholm came in, Sheena Chisholm came in when they were about, when I think Kirsty was about Primary Five, I think, she’d - was it a Five, Six and Seven? – three years with Mrs Chisholm, or just two years, and Willie had four. But they had a great chance, I mean, both teachers, and Miss Husband the previous teacher had been excellent too but I didn’t really, mean, know her, I didn’t know her as a teacher, I knew her in the community, but they got a great chance. The difference between when Kenneth was in Killin [correcting herself] Ardeonaig School, and even when I was in Killin school, although it was a bigger school, Killin Primary School, you weren’t really prepared in any way for going to secondary school, I mean it was a, a major culture shock to go from a wee school where you knew everybody to a school where, and McLaren High at that time was not a big secondary school, nothing like what it is now, but there were bells going off at the end of periods and you had different teachers at different, oh, it was odd. And then to cope with the hostel, although I loved the hostel, I mean I loved it once I got settled into it, but you didn’t go, there was no visiting days to prepare you, you just went on the first day of your first year and that was you in [laughs]. But, whereas in, they, even in Sandy’s time they went up to Aberfeldy for a day so they knew where they were going, they went to swimming in Callander, and compared to Killin School where it’s only certain classes that get to go, the whole school went from the time they were in Primary One to Primary Seven [HY: That’s interesting], so they were all good swimmers ‘cause they...

HY: Yep, so they had regular trips did they during the...?

MY: Oh, yes, they had a, they would have a term, one term every year that they went down to swimming. So they were all quite…

HY: So there wasn’t a, a pool in Aberfeldy at that time?

 

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MT: No, not at that time, I can’t remember, maybe the other one was, no, no, there wasn’t a pool in Aber…when Sandy, but they went down to Callander.

HY: ‘Cause that is quite a trek isn’t it.

MT: Well, it was Mr, I think it was Mr Hancock, or, it was Donald’s father who took the school car to, the whole, well the whole school went down, they were, they’d a great, I mean they had a great opportunity, they didn’t really suffer at all, they never seemed to have, yes, I mean, I suppose it’s always a change to go to a bigger school, but they didn’t, it wasn’t the [slight pause], just shock that I would have said the prev…you know, earlier generations had gone from a wee school to big school.

HY: So you say they all went to the Breadalbane?

MY: Uh huh, they went to Breadalbane, our ones went to Breadalbane. But then, in nineteen [slight pause] seventy – when did we change? – seven-seven, was it seventy-seven the regionalisation changed, that we changed from being in Perth and Kiross [HY: Oh, yeah] to Central?

HY: I think seventy-five was the date I had for when they, I don’t know when they actually brought it in but that’s when they started.

MT: Ah ha, but I don’t think it was seventy-five ‘cause, well maybe it was, maybe it was seventy-five, seventy-six, but they changed it and then, I’ve got to say they were quite sensible because the feeder school for Ardeonaig which was in Central Region then, the feeders were coming from Tayside, from Ardtalnaig and that, so they agreed between them, Perth & Kinross and Central, that they, Central would education the primary ones and they could, the older ones could go to Aberfeldy to secondary, which was quite sensible, you know, with no transport fees, nothing, you know. [55:00] But then, once the school closed in Ardeonaig, they went to Killin School, the option is they go to Stirl…Stirling District now, that they go to Callander, and I think they agreed that if everybody who was in the Killin School area wanted to go to Aberfeldy, they would put transport on, but if they didn’t, if someone wanted to go to Callander, it was Callander that the transport was provided for and you had to provide your own transport to Aberfeldy, cause I think Roger [Simpson] would finish, he would finish off in Aberfeldy because there was nobody at that time wanting to go, but then I think Lisa [Hancock] wanted to go to Callander when she grew up, you know, ‘cause, because her friends are in Killin School and they go on. I mean Sandy’s ones are the same, but [slight pause] whereas it’s a much shorter day to Aberfeldy.

HY: Yeah. So do you notice any other differences from when the, they kind of more formally put that divide? ‘Cause obviously the council services, did they change at all? Did you notice any difference [slight pause] with Stirling? ‘Cause I know people say these days that even the roads are very different the Stirling side [laughs].

MT: Oh yes there’s, well [slight pause] uh huh, aye, I suppose there was a difference certainly, well I suppose planning was, has got stricter anyway, but planning in Stirling, they could be quite silly awkward, I mean I know was just silly awkward well at least that’s what it seemed to me anyway, I’m not saying it just, you know, places where nobody was seeing anything, you know, they wouldn’t give permission, even where, well, the carry-on we had to get that wee addition at the back of the bothy for Kenneth’s mum was a real [slight pause], and in the end they came and they said, “Oh yes, well if you just move this and this, literally two inches back off.” Now nobody sees it, nobody would even, and, well we didn’t get permission for our house, we wanted to build a house up a Maragbeg road end where that old hut was, and they wouldn’t give us permission.

 

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HY: Of course they, they brought in that Ardeonaig Development Plan didn’t they [MT: Yes] which is strange.

MT: Which was silly because Ardeonaig was never a, it’s always been a dispersed community, it’s al…you know. There’s never been, and if you were coming to live you don’t really want to have somebody next door to you, surely the advantage is that you want to…and there had been a house up there they said.

HY: Yep, is that the place where there’s that chimney breast?

MT: That’s why we’ve left the chimney, it used to be a, but we’ve left the chimney standing just to show there had been, it had been.

HY: But they weren’t interested, no?

MT: No, they said there was, it was outside their area [phone rings], but I think maybe now they would change. [Recording paused]

HY: So in terms of living here, how often would you say you went out to shop or to do other things? Or was it easy to stay put and people come to you?

MT: Oh much easier to stay put, you didn’t, well I, I wasn’t, I didn’t have a driving licence when I, and you didn’t go away a lot at all, you really didn’t, I mean it was an occasion to go to Perth or Stirl…well they went to the market in Stirling so it, but it was the men folks who went to the market, we didn’t. But the vans, we had vans, we had lots of vans, I suppose it’s similar to Asda and Tesco delivering nowadays, but the vans came round with the stuff in. We had butcher’s vans, grocery vans, and not here, we had a fish van came round up at home before, and a baker’s van came in at Mid Lix. There was the, the Co-operative van, they had a butchers van and the grocery van, it came once a week. McKercher and MacNaughton’s came once a week, there was McGrouther’s the butcher’s came round once a week, maybe twice a week the butcher’s came, and [slight pause] - , [1:00:00] who else’s van did we have? Oh, we also had, once a month we had…[Recording paused]

HY: [Recapping] So you had vans coming round selling things.

MT: Yes, we had all the grocery vans, and butcher’s, butcher’s vans and, but as I said we had once a month a van, a draper’s van from Auchterarder, now it wasn’t just drapery he sold, Jack sold everything I think. The first television that would be here, the first, he just clad, I think, all the children in south, in south Lochtayside to Ardeonaig anyway, not Ardtalnaig, he didn’t go past Ardtalnaig. But the school clothes, the dance clothes, everything was from Jack’s van, and [slight pause]. So I suppose there was really no, there wasn’t, you could stay at home and not go away. We didn’t, I mean it was, Liz was what? Was she two by the time I passed my driving test? So that’s, mind you, once I passed my driving test it made a difference [laughs].

HY: Did you find you went out a lot more then?

MT: Well I, yes I could take [laughing] Kenneth’s mum I could take ‘cause they didn’t drive, and, let’s see, but, we went, yes it meant you were freer to go to a thing without having to be taken to it. Yeah, I suppose I would say it’s vital now that you have a licence. You’d be absolutely stuck because there’s no way of getting away if you didn’t, you know, and you think long ago they would have had, they would have had the steamer, they would have had the buses, they weren’t really as stuck as you would be now if you didn’t have a vehicle.

HY: ‘Cause was there a Post, there was a Post…

 

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MT: There was a Post Bus.

HY: …Bus at some point?

MT: The Post Bus was on for quite a wee while, trying to think when the Post Bus started – was it about [slight pause] seventy-one? Did it start about, the Post Bus start about seventy-one, seventy…

HY: Was that ‘cause locals asked for it or just it was something that the postman did?

MT: No, I think there was a kinda, I think, I think the Post, I think it was a general thing they were putting on, Post Buses in rural communities. But then it just stopped just as quick, maybe, maybe it was after the seventies [slight pause], but it was very handy and it went, you could get to Killin, you could go to Callander, and you could get back from Callander then it came back down to Ardeonaig, but then it, it stopped coming back down to Ardeonaig, you know, which was a bit silly.

HY: So you could get there but not back? [laughs]

MT: You couldn’t get back, you could go, and you could go to Callander but you had to find your own way back. And then it just stopped, it just went off like that, I mean, it was, but it was quite handy, I know when our family were younger, I’m talking Sandy and Liz more because Kirsty and Willie done the same, but they used to go up to do their Christmas shopping in Killin, on their own, independent. They could take the Post Bus up and do it and then come back down. When the Bus was at Callander they could do their shopping, it was, where Capercaillie is now there was a shop called the Cottage Loom, Cottage Loom was a nice wee shop and had lots of things, there was lots of wee shops in the village, lots of shops in Killin, when you see Killin now it’s quite sad, you know, with the closed shops. When you think [slight pause], up at the top of the village where Mrs Sword has her draper’s shop, that was a china, when I was little it was a china shop, Miss Tyson who had it and [slight pause], and then next door was a tea room for a while and then it was Andrews the draper, and they had a shop down, further down the street as well. There was the Co-operative, there was D. & J. McEwan’s, there was another grocery shop down at the bottom, Betsy McLaren, down beside, where the Outdoor Shop is now, and there were just, the Co-operative had a drapery bit as well, and butchery department, you know. [Slight pause] And there’s Websters, MacGregor’s closed, when I was young there was a fish van came round from MacGregor’s, came round [1:05:00] Mid Lix, I don’t think it ever came down the south side but it went out our way, and it was, just very, and there was a bookshop next door where the flower shop was, where Webster’s, there was a bookshop, and there was a butcher’s, two butchers always in Killin, you know. And the garages and that what I said, there wouldn’t be a, a tenth of the vehicles that are now in the area, and yet there was a garage, there was Horwood’s garage and there was MacGregor’s garage, and they both sold fuel, petrol, Lix Toll would start as a filling station about 1958, it was just a filling station and then it, the garage, and the ho…the Bridge of Lochay Hotel had a petrol pump and so had Killin Hotel, a petrol pump, and they would, I don’t know, when you think there weren’t a quarter of the vehicles, och quarter, a tenth of the vehicles that are there, and they must have made a living somehow or other, I don’t know. It’s…and lots of houses did Bed and Breakfast in the village. There weren’t many hotels there was just really Killin Hotel and Bridge of Lochay, and the Clachaig Hotel was later in getting a licence but it had a licence.

HY: You didn’t have so many Bed and Breakfasts along the lochside?

MT: Oh, yes, oh yes every, lots, not this side, no, this side ‘cause it would never, but the other side of the loch would do Bed and Breakfast, we did Bed and Breakfast at home at Mid Lix sometimes and, but before that, I mean, going back generations before, I mean, every household, farmhouse in lochside, the south side, the north side and where my grandparents, like my, when my mother was

 

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small, they would all, all go out to the barn in the summertime and the houses would be let [HY: Oh, okay], and people would come, say, maybe from the cities area, Glasgow, Edinburgh area, and take the house maybe for a month, you know and they’d be in the farmhouse and that was a big thing, oh every, I mean…

HY: I didn’t realise they did that.

MT: Oh yes.

HY: I know they did it in the houses in Killin, you know the big old grand Victorian...

MT: No, no, no…no, no, everybody would go out [HY: but they did it…?] oh yes, they’d all go out to…

HY: It’s another way of making a little bit of money to….

MT: Oh yes, it’d be a big thing, and, I mean, Kenneth’s aunt, his dad’s, they were down Lochlomandside and they did it too, and quite often, I know in, where my grandparents were over at Lawers, but the girls, the daughters would maybe get a job helping in the house, when the, you know and, and quite often that’s how they would all go to serv…into service, I mean into the bigger, you know, get contacts ‘n’ that. But that, definitely, tourism is not a new thing [laughs].

HY: No, it just has a slightly difference face.

MT: It’s just changed, just changed, uh huh. It’d be self-catering, all, all the houses would, they would all go out, the people who were here in Dall before, Kenneth’s folk. That, that would kind of stop, I think after, I think aft…roughly after the First World War, that would sort of stop, maybe sort of Edwardian in these grand type, you know when people, they would all, but that would, that would be very common practice everywhere, you know, they just went out.

HY: And the last question I had for you actually before I leave is, the Community Association, that came after the Rural didn’t it, sort of, sort of…?

MT: Oh yes, it came after the Rural, it came, the Community Association as it is now started when the school stopped because the school really ran the trips, and the school had its whist drives to raise funds, and they had the, the hal…the Christmas party, and, so the school was the community association almost of, of the old days, and when it stopped we thought we had to do something to keep things going, to organise the trips and that, so we started the Community Association, and that’s really how it started and probably I’ve got a lot to be guilty for that, but…

HY: Have you been quite involved then, over the years?

MT: Yeah, I would probably say, probably, I think maybe I would be the instigator of getting these things go…I don’t know, ‘cause Kenneth’s parents, I don’t know, I’ve got [1:10:00] a lot to answer for maybe [HY laughs]. But I thought it was important, because I really felt Mrs MacInnes has worked very hard, she had, really did, she, and it was, it, it is a nice community, I mean, people say, “Oh, you’re so lucky, you’ve still got a community in Ardeonaig”, but you don’t have a community without hard work. It’s no easy and you never please everybody anyway, and you’ve got to take the flack with the, you know, and it’s easy to say, “Och”, ‘cause I think even back to these socials I was talking about in Ardchyle, I’m not saying every third Tuesday you thought, “Och”, it was just the way that, “Och no, not again”, but looking back, they were the high…you know, they were great nights, and I think it’s the same with the things, you say, “Oh no, not again it’s another whist.” Do you understand what I mean? [laughs]

 

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HY: [Laughing] I know what you mean, another cake to bake [HY & MT laugh], but you love it when you do it, yep.

MT: Well you don’t really love it when you do it, but it’s when you look back you think, well it is important, you know.

HY: Yeah.

MT: Other, in the village, ‘cause they’ll say that, I mean I know like Lawers and that, the other side of the loch will have lost all their kind of, like, identity like that, you know, and they say, “Oh, you’re so lucky you’ve still got it in Ardeonaig”, but I say…

HY: Worked for it.

MY: It’s not just there, uh huh, I’m no saying you get your blessings from everybody too for doing it, but on the other hand, well I’d be sorry to see it gone but I don’t know, it, maybe it will in the, it just has to go. Maybe we’re fighting a losing battle trying to keep these things going, but [slight pause], I don’t know. It’s more how you would see things when you come into a community than we see it when we’re in it. You’re…maybe it is a mistake trying to keep things going, maybe you’re flogging a dead horse, no?

HY: I mean, if people enjoy spending time with each other then I think it is important.

MT: Uh huh.

HY: Well, that’s great, I think that’s a good place to leave it, thank you very much.

[Recording ends]