Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

TUESDAY, 24 JULY 1917

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Questions. (24 JULY.] Questions. 307

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY.

TuESDAY, 24 JuLY, 1917.

The SPEAKER (Hon. W. McCormack, Cairns) --took the chair at half-past 3 o'clock.

QUESTIONS.

RESIDENCES OF STATE SCHOOL TEACHERS.

Mr. WALKER (Cooroora), in the absence -<af Mr. Stevens, asked the Secretary for -Public Instruction-

" 1. How many residences for State school teachers have been erected or pro­vi.dod fo;· in the year.s ending 30th June, 1916 and 1917, respectively?

" 2. In what districts were residences erected or provided for, and what was the cost of each-( a) estimated ; (b) actu6l?"

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­'STRUC'I'ION (Hon. H. F. Hardacre, Leich­hardt} replied : The answer to the question is rather long, but if the hon. member likes . I will reoo it.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: We will take it as r.read.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION: I lay the answer on the table-

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HOuRS OF SERVICE IN RAILWAY REFRESHMENt· ROOMS.

Mr. ROBERTS (East Toowoomba) asked the Secretary for Railways-- .

" 1. What are the hours of work of waitresses at the railway refreshment­rooms, Helidon ·and Toowoomba (includ­ing waiting time) ?

"2. What are the hours between which such work is performed?

" 3. Are their collars, cuffs, etc., sup­plied and laundered at department's expense? ''

The SElORETARY FOR RAILWAYS (Hon. J. H. Coyne, Warrego) replied-

" Toowoomba-"1. Waitresses, sixty-two hours per

week; tearoom •attendants, sixty-four and a-half hours per week; both, includ­ing seven hours' waiting time, averaging seven •and six-sevenths hours and eight hours, respectively .

" 2. 7 a.m. to 10.40 p.m. "3. No.

308 Questions. [ASSEMBLY.] Questions.

"Helidon-" 1. Fifty-eight hours per wook. " 2. 7 a.m. to 9 p.m. "3. No."

DESTRUCTION OF s.s. "Ct:li!BERLAND."

HoN. J. G. APPEL (Albcrt), in the absence of Mr. Murphy, asked the Chief Secretil.ry-

" Will the Government follow the example of New South Wales, and offer a reward for the detection of the mis­creants responsible for the destruction of the steamer 'Cumber land,' part of whose cargo was shipped at Queensland ports, and by offering a free pardon to an accomplice whose information will lead to the conviction of the criminals? "

The PREMIER replied-" The Government have had this

matter under consideration for some days, but are awaiting a reply to certain confidential inquiries made from the Imperial authoritic> through the Agent­General before making any announce­ment."

Jot:RNALis~·s' AwARD oF THE FEDERAL ARBITR1TION CocRT.

Mr. H. J. RYA:'II (Cook) asked the Secre­tary for Public Works--

"Seeing that the Brisbane Newspaper Compan,v, which issues the 'Courier,' ' Observer,' and ' Queenslander,' has flouted the journalists' award of the Federal Arbitration Court, cannot means be devised under the laws of i.his State whereby the employe"s of this company would receive 1·edress? "

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS (Hon. E. G. Theodore, Ghillagoe) replied-

" I£ the employees referred to are entitled to the benefits of a Common­wealth Arbitration Court award, and do not receive such benefits, they have a legal remedy in their own hands, hut it is not '" matter concerning which the Sta.te has any control or any right of action.'?

ERADICATION "OF PESTS AND DISEASES.

Mr. CORSER (Burnett) asked tile Secre­tary for Agriculture and Stock-

" 1. Did he notice b,v the Press of 19th July that the Advisory Council of Science and Industry had reported to the Commonwealth Government on the control and eradication of pests and dis­eases, ancl recommending the extermina· tion of the cattle tick?

"2. What Minister represented Queens­land recently on the council?

"3. Does he know why no action was taken or reference m<vde regardiEg the problem of prickly-pear in the direction of assisting settlers and clearing Crown areas?''

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE AND STOCK replied­

" 1. Yes. "2. The Assistant Minister for Justice. " 3. No. The conference was called to

discuss matters other than those men­tioned b,y the honourable member."

ALLEGED I.W.W. ART UNION.

Mr. CORSER asked the Assistant Minister for Justice-

'• 1. Were r<'presentatives of the De­partment of Justice present at an art union drawing in the I.W.W. rooms, at Stanley street, South Brisbane, as re­ported in the 'Standard' of the lOth· instant?

" 2. If so, has such presence his approval?

" 3. Were the. tickets of this particular· art union sold on behalf of the wives and children of the twelve I.'W.W. men. imprisoned in Sydney for treason?"

HoN. J. A. FIHELLY (Paddington)· replied-

" 1. The drawing was heM at what I underst-and to be the rooms of the Rus­sian \Vmkmen and Soldiers' Association, and officers of the Justice Department. were present.

"2. Yes. "3. The tickets were sold on behalf of'

tho destitute and starving families of the I.W.yv. n:;~n who were imprisoned. for conspiracy.

lNKER:.fAN IRRIGATION WORKS.

Mr. SWAYN'E (Jfirani) asked the Trea­surer-

" 1. What was the estimated cost of the· Inkerman irrigation works?

" 2. How much of this has been ex­pended, and how much of the work has. been done?

"3. Is he in a position to say when· the scheme is likely to be completed? "

The TREASURER (Hon. E. G. Theodore,. Chillagoe) replied­

" 1. £131,000. " 2. Amount expende·d. £3,688 16s. Sd.

\Vork done, approximately, half the area has been contour surveved. The office is in course of erection, and a contract has been let for making the linings for the wells on the area. Excavating machinery h<ls beE'n ordered, and well-sinking will commence as soon as this is to hand.

" 3. If the supply of machinery is not delaved owing to the war, tho scheme should be completed about the beginning of the vear 1919, but it may be possible to irri;ate f>art of fne area towards the· end o{1918 should this be necessary."

STATE HOTEL AT BABINDA.

1fr. WALKER asked the Home Secre­tarv-

' " 1. The total cost of the State hotel at Babinda?

" 2. The cost of running same per week?

"3. The total amount per week re­ceived 'on account of sale of liquor, and from other sources?"

The HOME SECRETARY (Hon. J. Huxham, Bumnda) replied­

" 1. £17,551 18s. 2d. " 2. £299 2s. 6d. "3. The average amount received per·

week is £391 Ss. 7d .. made up as fol­lows :-Bar takings, £277 19s. ld.; di'ning

Wages Bill. (24 JULY.] Address in Reply. 3Q9

·and coffee room, £85 95. lOd. ; ar,·om­modation, £15 17s. 9d.; billiards, £11 18s. lld."

AUTOMATIC INCREASES FOR FOURTH-CLASS DRIVERS.

Mr. ROBERTS asked the Secretary for <Railways-

" 1. Did the Estimates passed last session proviue for automatic increases 1

"2. \Vhat was the cause of fourth-class drivers not being paid their automatic increases ? 'r

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS ·.:replied-

" 1. Yes; provided that the higher classification rate did not exceed £200.

"2. Because increases to fourth-class drivers would have increased their pay to more than £200 per annum, the limit under which increases ·were granted."

\YAGES BILL.

INITIATION.

The SECRETARY FOR PL'BLIC WORKS: JI move-

" That the House will, at its next sit­ting, resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole to consider of the desirable· ness of introclucing a Bill to make better provision for the payment of wages due to workers, and for other incidental purpDses.''

'This Bill is framed on the same lines as -that which was introduced last session, minor -alterations only having been made in order io correct what appeared to be the faulty -construction of the original Bill. The gene­ral purpose of the Bill is to give greater ·protection to workers in respect of wages .. due to them; to repeal the Masters and Servants Act and set up new machinery in its stead, which is likely to be more satis­factory to all parties concerned.

HoN. J. TOLMIE (1'oou·oomb,z): I do not intend to discuss the motion at any length, but we were anxious to know what the ;;cope of the Bill was. We find that this Bill is the same ao; that which was before the HousP last se-.sion; I do not know whether it was before us the previous ses­

·sion. If it i, submitte·d to the people. it will, no doubt. meet with their disapprovaL seeing that the people have endorse·d the action of the Chamber which disapproved of this legislation. If the Government have other business. they might bring it befor~ the conntry, rather than a measure of thi" kind, which was turned down bv a Cham· ber which may be regarded as the popular 'Chamber. (Government laughter./

The PREMIER: You are humorous.

HoN. J. TOL::\fiE: I take it that the ·timE' has com0 when the Government should appeal to the electors again, who have held that such is the situation that thev have no ·business to bring these measures before the ·Dhamber.

The PRE~IIER: We wish to send the Bill ito the electors.

Question put and passed.

ADDRESS IN REPLY.

RESUMPTION OF DEBATE.

Mr. PETRIE (1'oorn1ml), who was received with Opposition " Hear, hears," said: First of all I ·dPsire to offer to the Premier my symp~thy in the berea:'ement which his family has recently sustamed.

HoNOURABLE MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Mr. PETRIE: With regard to the Speech delivered bv His Excellency, I could not help beiniT struc'k with the cleverlv worded para­grap''hs which it contains. ·I think th~t, throuiThout, the Spt·<:.ch shows a want of sm­cerity"; at all events, it is worded so as to placate the supporters of th<;' Governmen~, and to place the Government m a good P?SI­tion in the eves of the electors at the commg elections. I· was also struck with the great apathv shown in this debate by hon. mem· hers opposite. 'I'hev did not seem inclined to talk at all until· the criticism which was levelled at them from this side drew several of them to their feet.. Whether they think they have a very ba,d case, and have not much faith in the Government, I do not know· but in the last sesoion of a Parliament we u~ed to see hon. members rushing to their feet to make speeches and get them recor-ded in " Hansard," so that the electors might see what members had done for them. However that state of thing; does not seem to apply' to this the last session of the tw~n­tieth Parliament. Hon. members opposite seem to be afraid to defend-in fact, they reallv cannot defend-the action of the pre­sent Government. A lot is said in the Speech with regard to what the Government ha':e done during thC' time they have been m power, so far as the war is concerned. They have brought in a great many measures and called them war measures, and that sort of thino- in an attempt to convince the people that they have been doing a great deal to help to' ,~·in the war. But a good many peor,le outside are not in sympathy with the Government, as they know the Government have not done what thev shoq,id have done so far as assisting the Common­wealth to win the war. The Speech says-

" ThP War. horrible beyond all example as some of its incidents are, is not without it, nobler aspects. and prominent among t~em is the readine.eq with which c\ustralra sprang to the aid of the mother country at thn first whis­pe-r that she was in danger. Splendidly, bv uniyersal admission, has Australin, done her duty in this terrific struggle, anrl, there cannot be the smallest doubt, will continue to do so until the triumph of the Empirt• !1nd its allies brings the f,)n~·pf't to an end. Queensland has bl'en s1_cond to none o£ her ~'i-.ter States in the provirling of men and requisites,_ and will not lessen her efforts and sacrifices until victorv for the common cause has be.en achieved."

A GovERX:\IENT MEMBER: Do you .object to that?

Mr. PETRIE: I say all credit to the Go­vernment, .b~t a;re they. doing thei: ~es~ when recrmtmg IS becommg a by-word . ~ am not going to :;ling mud or call rr:embe_rs of the Ministry or members opposrte · drs­loyalists or anything of that sort, but so fa.r this session we have not heard any speech

Mr. Petrie.]

310 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

from the other side that will <J.ssist recruit­mg. The hon. member for North Brisbane made a speech, which no doubt was a splendid one from his point of view but it will have a detrimental effect so fa; as re­cruiting is ccncaned. He spoke about capi­talists, militarists, and the ruling classes as being ·anything but what they shoul.cJ be. Capitalism or militarism or socialism is not going to win this war. It is the men in khaki who have been fighting for us across the seas who are going to win the war. It is not we politicians by slinging mud at one another who are going to win the war, but we can do a lot towards helping the Prime Minister of the Commonwealth in his recruit­ing scheme now we have turned down con­scription. I have advocated conscription ttll the time, and I am proud to say that the electorate which I have the honour to repre­sent vote.cJ in favour of conscription by a majority of over 300. I would sooner a-dvo­cate conscription than voluntary recruiting. Now we fin.cJ that the official Labour party htt ve issued orders from their hea.cJqu<~rters in Me!bo.urnc that not only are they against conscriptiOn, but that they have turned down recruiting also, an.cJ we read in the .cJa,ilv Press this morning that the Queensland Lal1our party are against recruiting also; th<tt .they are against anybody enlisting and fightmg across the seas. Accordina- to the hon. member for Brisbane and the hon. member for Bowen, the capitalists have done nothing hut exploit the peo\Jle, but if you take the men who have gone to the front to fight our battles you will find that the pas­toralists have gone in far greater numbers than any other section of the community. Not only h<tve they given money for patriotic purpoSE'S, but have volunteered for service themselves, and put others in charge of their Ftations to provide for their wives an.cJ families. They have not gone as officers either. but as privates, and. many of them have 1ai.cJ <lawn their lives for their countrv. Therefore, it is not fair that any hon. mem­ber should endeavour to JYHlke out that these men h<J.ve not done their duty towards their King and country, and that they have been robbing the peoplE'. Hon. members opposite have asked " Why .cJon't you conscript wealth? " In the scheme set out by the present Commonwealth Government thev are going to commandeer wealth to a consider­able extent, too. As regar-ds the ruling class, I bay the class hen. members opposite helong to want to be the· ruling class, but I pity Australia if our destinies were in the hands of that class. One hon. member opposite declare.cJ in Maryborough that he cared for only one class, and that he was going to legislate for only one class, ·and that was the class to which he belonged. We on this side of the House represent all classes in the community. \Ve believe in equitv an.cJ jus­tice to all. In·stead of these men ~dvocating voluntary recruiting, they passed a Tesolu­tion that none of their suppo-rters should appear on any platform to speak in favour of recruiting. I deplore that fact. I know that members of the Ministrv and hen. members on that side have sons at the front fighting for their King and country, and therefore I cannot understand why theSG men take up such a position, unles; it is that thev are anxious to hold on to their present positions, and they know that if they speak in favour of conscription or in favour of the recruiting scheme they will be sent about their business the same as Mr. John Admnson was when

[Mr. Petne.

he h<t.cJ the courage of his convictions, and' supported voluntary recruiting. What we· want to .cJo is to stan.cJ together shoulder to· shoul.cJer as a nation to fight for what is right and what is just. We know our soldiers· never asked anything for what they did. They simply volunteered and went .a,cross­the seas to fight; but when these men come back it is for us to do all we can to assist· them, but what do we find the Government are doino- now? Alrea.cJy we have had a. good .cJeoS of discussion about the settlement· of soldiers on the land. Look at the repat­l'iation scheme outlinod by Senator Millen. In that scheme there> is one weakness, an.cJ: that weakness has been cause.cJ by the Sec­retarv for Public Lands, who represented· Queensland at the conference in Melbourne some time ago. It is provided there that each State ~hould deal with their own lands so far as the settlement of ~oJ.diers is c?n­cerned as they had the machmery for .cJomg: it but instead of the Secretary for Public· L~nds agreeing to provi.cJe a freehold tenu~e­such as everv other State has <lone, he Is-. offering the sol.cJiers a leasehold tenure.

Mr. H. L. HARTLEY: The same ol.cJ cry.

~1r. PETRIE :. I hope the Commonwealth> Government will step in an.cJ see that the· soldiers get justice.

Mr. H. L. HARTLEY: You are in favour of unification now.

Mr. PETRIE: I think unification would' be better than the Government we ~ave here at the present time. I would be m favour of unification to abolish you, at all events. If the present Government, when they '!'ere· placed in power. had adopted the ngpt course, thev would have left alone a_IJ legis­lation that was detrimental to the mterests­of a majority of the electors; th~y would' have seen that our house was kept m order\ that our finances were straightened .out, and that we wNe not led into extravagant and' reckle·•S expeudi tu re; and they would ha Vf>: helped the Kati~nal G_overnn:ent. to do all they could to brmg this horrible war to a. successful issue. \Ve have one common· enemv to fio-ht. That is the Germans-a very strong people. When t_hey were tryin\i !o• crush the weaker natiOns Great Bntam· stepped in. and rightly so, fo.r their protec­tion. We know how the Belgians have bec;n· treated, and we know also how poor Serbia; has been treated. The Germans have gone· out of thier way to bring about destructio!l, and their acts of crueltv arP unparalle.led m· military history. \Vhen we know this, we· should 'put aside all personal feeling and do· our duty-that is. to help crush Germany· and bring her to her knees. Unt~l we do· that it is no use talking about thiS peace­at-any-price buisne~s. It is absurd. We· should do all we can to help our country Ill'

her time of need. Even the " Bulletin," which is a democratic paper, and with which· most members on the other side of the House· agree, had a very_goo~ article !n last week's· issue on the horrible mconvemence of war. In one part they say-

" Labour papers and many alleged' leaders of the Labour movement in Aus­tralia appear to consider that by de­nouncing capitalism and profit-mongers• and war in all its aspects they can in· some vague way help to bring the fearful tragedv to an end and push the cause· of universal peace forward. The " Bul­letin" takes the liberty of thinking that

Address in Reply. [24 JULY.] Address in Reply. 311

the most humble man in khaki is doing more every day of his life for the pro· tection of right and truth and justice than all these others will do in years."

I ha V€\ already referred to this, and I say it is mere claptrap when we hear hon< members on that side sav they are doing all they can to help win the war. It is mere cant and humbug, as described by the hon. member for Albert, when we hear members getting up and making speeches such as they have been doing this session so far as the war is concerned. The article also says-

" \Vhen the German armies marched a million strong into Belgium and France three years ago singing songs of victory, how did the poilu assist capitalism and prevent the spread of socialism? By seizing his bayonet and rushing towards the frontier. If he had not int''rcepted the visitation he would certainly have retained his health and strength. Ger­many would have attended to all the rest; including his capital. Though the Belgian and the Frenchman may have detested war and earnestlv desired to live in peace, how could they have avoided war when a neighbour arrived thirsting for gore? If they had refused to fight for their own country they would have had to fight for Germany against the first person who had spirit enough to hit back< If they refused to fight then, a bullet would have ended the controversy. So the grave was waiting whatever hap­pened, and the voice of the people who wanted no war would have been drowned in the loud, triumphant shouts of the people who rejoiced in it and wanted more. The man who thinks that uni­versal peace would be brought nearer to re:dity through the domination of Europe and therefore of the world bv Prussia is blind in both eves. There \Vas and is no choice before t'he peoples attacked by Prussia except to either fight or become the conquered helots of a brutal despot­ism. Neither capitalism nor socialism, neithtr distaste for war nor lust for war. had anythin!l" to do with the matter at that stage. They all vanished from the picture, and the issue before men and women on one side was whether they would bow down to t:a·anny; on the other whether they could by force put their tyranny in the ascendant."

There is nothing left for us t<o do but to stand together as a nation. If we prove ourselves strong in arrns, we ::hall have peacE', ad before; but, if we are beaten in

the war, then others can do what [4 p.m.] they please with us, and they will

take awav from us all that we possess. It looks as if that is what hon. members opposite want. It looks as if thev would like Germany to take charge of Aws­tralia. We are not only fighting for the Enopire at the present time, but we are fighting for Australia as well, (Hear, hPar !) We have not had to fight on our shores, but we mi,;·ht have had to fight herce but for the British navy. \Ve have sent our young men br across the sc·as to fight for Australia. At th~ call of the Empire the:v came from the v<:'ldts of Africa. from the plains of Aus­tralia. from Canada. and from the i'lands of the Pacific-all r<'sponding to the call of their country. Some people say that

Australia has done well, and I also say that Australia has done well, but when they say that Amtralia has done enough, I say that Australia has not done enough. She has still got a lot to do. Last ye_ar Australia "as asked to find 16,000 recrmts a month, but now the quota has been reduced to only 7,000 recruits a month.

Mr. PoLLOCK: For what reason was it reduced?

Mr. PETRIE : They are going to try an~ make 7,000 recruits a month do. I know It i, a hard thing to ask other people to do what vou are not prepared to do yourself, but vie have a lot of eligible men fit to fight and they should go. So far as I am concerned I am over the military age, und I am s01·{,y I am not able to go myself.

Mr. PoLLOCK : Would to God !

~fr. PETRIE : I would have volunteered long ago had I bE'Bn of military_ age: I,t is no use people casting slurs by mterJections or otherwise, but I am perfectly prepar~d t0 stand up as I have always done and Will continue to do in the interests of truth and justice. (Hear, hear!) We all hope that this great war will soon be over. Unfor­tunately, from the news yve .received this morning so far as Russ!a IS c<:>ncerne~, things do not look too good, and the war IS not going to end so quickly as some p~~ple think. \Ve are passing through a critiCal time and it behoves us all to put forth our utm~st energy in doing all we ea:' to bring about the victory we so much desire. I :<m glad that America has come in to our assist· ance, as she will give ns g~·eat help_. They are responding to the call 111 Amenca, and are acting quite differently to a certai_n sc~tion in Australia. \Ve know that _thts section is getting the control of the Jlmons here. I refer to the I.\V.W. The other night the hon. member for Gregory gave us a lecture on I.W.W.-ism and tried ro :ooap them over and make out a good case so far as they are concerned.

Mr. POLLOCK: That is not true.

~\ir. PETRIE: These men h":ve come fr.om other parts of the . world and are ~ettmg into our trade umons and attemptmg to dominate the Trades Hall. They also want to dominate our Government and those behind them. It is unfortunate that they are here, and I hope that they will soon. be wiped out of existence. At the present ttme w·c are mourning and rejoicing at the same time. \Ye are mourning for th'! loss of our loved ones, and at the same ttme we are rejoicing that ~hey_ have gone. forw!'rd and hid down theu hves for thetr Kmg and countrv. I hone that the example of those who have gone to the front. will b~ follo_::oed bv others, and that they wtll constder Kmg and countr:v first, as the Gm·ernment should also have done, and let <verything else come afterwards. I hope the Government will not allow themsPlves to be domineered by the­section I refer to. I hope members opposite will have the courage of their convictions. and take the matter into their own hands. I know mvself that hon. members opposite have the interests of their country at heart,. and if thev are onlv game enough to face th0 trouble thev sh~uld sacTifice themselves rather than give in to the people trying to dominate them at the pTesent time. If they do that thev will bo more appreciated by the electors· of Queensland. It is for the

Mr. Pctrie.]

312 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

Gove~·nment to take the ri;;ht course, even at this the eleventh hour, and do what thev ought to. have done before. I hope the Govern­ment Will take the advice that I am giving them, and undo a lot thev have done P.ince the)' came into power. "

\Vhen the Government first came into power, notwithotanding all the window. dressing that appeared in the first Speech, the Government began their career bv tinker­ing with the public accounts so as to make the surplus of the previous Administration loo}< much less than it was. Thev then fimshcd up the next year with a surplus of £34,900, but in reality it was proved by the Aud_Itor-General to be a deficit of £100.000. Durmg that same period the Government imposed additional taxation of over £500 COO and last year they proposed to furthe1: in: ~rease the bur~ens. on the people by increas. mg the taxation m the Income Tax Bill Th.ey also wished to make it retrospective. but this the Legielative Council would not allow them to do. Despite the fact that the Govern. ment had an expanding revenue they ended the ~·ear with a deficit of £250.000. These deficits could have been avoided bv careful financing. because the previous Go\·ernment left the finances in good order.

Mr. K_IRI~A::;: \Vhy, you could not pav the automat!{) mcrenses. "

Mr. PETRIE: The Government spent m~ney extravagantly on various State enter­prises which could easily have been left to stand over. So far as the State butchers' shops are concerned. I am nleased to see that th~ people a.re getting me~t at a reasonable pnce, but it is not right that we should charge the Imperial Government 4~d. per lb. for ;nea~ sent home to feed the soldiers fi.ghtmg m the trenches while at the same time we supply meat to those who will not !J'O to the front, but prefer to remain behind m Queensland, at something like 3d. per lb. Ic wo':'ld have been far better to have made the Pl'IC'e 4£d. per lb. all round. It is quite easy for the Govern:nent to sell the meat cheap when we consider how thev commandeer ever,ything. The action of the Government remmds me of two men who were sel!inoo brooms. One man could sell cheaper becauo% he stole the material. but the other m,;n stai·ted stealing whole brooms and could therefore undersell his opponent. That is the way with the Gowrnmf'nt. The Govern­ment commandeer the people's C<lttle and they ewn had to go and attack a widow. as we saw the details in the case heard before the Supreme Court. The Government have also been stealing bptter and e>"erything else they could lay then hands on. We know that many new industries would be started by private enterprise n'?twithsta.nding prob­able labour troubles. whi~h can be got oYer, but. people are not foolish enoug-h to risk their money in a~y ventures thPse days, as they know that If they are a succe's the Government will commandeer them. So far as the Stat: sawmills and joinery works are conce,rned. If a proper inquiry of experts was held mto those ventures they would find there was something wrong in connection with them.

The SECRETARY FOR RAIL WAYS : \'f e are thinking seriously of starting State monu­mental works next week. (Laughter.)

Mr. PETRIE: The hon. member and his friends will want some monuments themselve~

[.ilfr. Petrie.

after the next election, and probably I will be able to ,do some business with the Minister for Railwavs later on. The Government have to go' to the country next May and probably they will go before May, when they will have to make the best of a bad case.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: We may not go to the country at all.

Mr. PETRIE: Perhaps thE' hon. gentle­man would like to coalesce with us and have a National Government. (Laughter.) No doubt the hon. gentleman would like that. The State sawmills were purchased as a going concern. That is much better than starting a new industry, yet, although Mr. Raymond, the previous owner, did well out of it we know that the StatP showed a loss the first vear. vVe know also that the State paid £2.000 more for the Stat~ sawmills than they were originally asked.

The TREASURER: Nonsense. Mr. PETRIE: That is common talk, any·

way. We will get to the bottom of these things later on. vVhen we are sitting on those benches we will probably find out a lot of things that we cannot get an answer to now. Questions are of no effect. They are put in a straightforward manner and they are either cut out or evaded in some shape or form. I say that, no matter what Govern­ment is in power-whether it be a Liberal or anv other Government-they have a right to answer reasonable questions as ,truthfully and straightforwardly as they can.

Before going on with the question of the State sawmills, I would like to refer to the State joinery. I don't know whether the Minister is aware that one large joinery works at Clavfield had to shut down. Those men established a large joinery works in conjunction with their sawmill, and went to a lot of trouble and expense. They were hardworking. good business men. and good tradesmen also. To-day, it is a funny thing that joinery is chuaper than it was before the war, notwithstanding the high price that has to be paid for glass.

The TREASC'RER: Labour has been respon­sible for a reduction in price in many thin15s.

Mr. PETRIE : I don't know what they are going to do with our State joinery works. They are not yet complete. and, according to the Treasurer, in an answer he gave me the other day, they have cost nearly £40,000 alrf'ady. I believe that before they are complete and in pcoper working order the cost will be more like £100.000.

The TREASC:RER : Oh, no ! Mr. PETRIE: \Yhat thev are going to do

to make this pay I am a~ a loss to know. }.1r. BooKER: He doesn't know. Mr. PETRIE: He doesn't know either.

So far as our sawmills are concerned, they have a Yery g·ood man in charge; but un­fortunately, all our good men are handi­capped because thev are not allowed to do exactly as they like..:_they have that dominat­ing influence again over them. On the saw­mills' price list I have in my hand eyen now the Brisbane Timber Merchants' Association and all our sawmills here are selling timber cheaper than it is being sold at the State sawmills.

The TREASURER: We kngnv better than that. Mr. PETRIE: I have the list here, and I

will give you some of the items. I believe

Address in Reply. l24 JULY.] Address in Reply. 313

that your manager and the Brisbane mer­-chants work pretty happily together, and ,get on fairly well. Your people would have liked to have joined the association if they had been allowed. You find that you are unable to sell timber as cheaply as the private sawmills are doing. I have here a list showing the exact net price-that is, with the discount taken off-at which the timber merchants <J.re selling timber now.

The TREASURER: You may have an isolated -case.

Mr. PETRIE : There are lots of cases all ·down thf' list.

The TREAScRER: No.

Mr. PETRIE : I would read them all out i:o the House, but that it would take up too much time. For hardwood (rough, 3 inches by ~ inch, no classification) your price is 17s. ; when the discount is taken off by the other sawmills their price is 16s. 8d.

The TREASURER: What about our dis­<Count?

Mr. PETRIE: We do not know that you give {:iscount. I am told that you do not give .any diwount unless you can possibly help It. Then we ha Ye timber over 3 inches by ~ inch to 4 inches by 3 inches; your price is £1 Ss. 6d., and their price is £1 7s. 9d.

The TREASURER : You are allowing dis­-count in their case and not in our case.

Mr. PETRIE: You do not allow any dis­-count at all.

The TREASURER : vV e do.

Mr. PETRIE : This is your net price and the net price of the Timber Merchants' Asso­-ciation.

The TREASURER : I challenge you to show me ·where the timber merchants published £chedules which we have; and ours is much less than theirs throughout.

Mr. PETRIE: You are running your saw­mills at a Ios>, and I am sorry to say we will 'have proof of that before very long.

I want to refer now to the State butchery. Most of the State butchers' shops are in Labour membrrs' electotates. I don't know why--

Mr. BooK ER: And Labour me,-nbers' motor­·oars come for the meat.

Mr. PETRIE: Yes, Labour members' motor-C<lrs come for the meat. This is not a fair competition. They are rummg our butchers here. because they cannot compete with the Government, who can sell their meat £0 much cheaper on account of the fact that they steal cattle and of the considerably le55 price which they have to p.:ty for the ncc.;t. Only recently a man went almost insolvent--

The SPEAKER : Order ! I must ask the 'hon. member to refrain from applying the word " stealm;; " to actions of the Govern­ment.

Mr. PETRIE : Did I say " stealing"? I thought I said " commandeering." If I mid ·"stealing" I apologise.

Now, I was going to point out that instead of the Government going in for some of these undertakings there are others which they might very well carry out. They ·Could have gone in for matchmaking. the same as is being done in Melbourne; and there is what they c•all· the three-ply aystem, where they have in their employ

something like 300 hands. That is a private concern, and it is something new. Under present conditions, you are heaping taxation upon the heads of the people every year. and then you come in uooer unfair competition and knock these men out of business altogether. I say it is a deplorable, thing when the Government does things of that sort. I could not help being struck when I was in the other Chamber listening to the Governor reading the Speech-of course. put into his mouth by his advisers -at the reference to the abolition of tha Upper House. I noticed that a smile came ovu· His Excellenn·'s face, and I do not "' onder at it. The Parliamentary Bills Referendum Act of 1908, under which they ha, 1 the option of bringing in measures that were twice rejected in the Upper House, was introduced at the time of the Kid~ton Government. Vi'hen that Act was brought in by Mr. Kidston it was clone for the reason I have alreadv stated-that if a Bill was twice• rejected 'by the other Chamber. they could appeal to the people. But it was never intended under that Act that we should hke a vote on the abolition of the Upper House. "\Ve might just as well say we ought to have taken a vote on the abolition of the Lower House. Litigation is now pending, and I do not know what the result will be, but as far "' I can see. from a lavman's point of view, it is unconstitutiona1. At the eleYenth hour. when the High Court decided the dav before the Federal elec­t.ions took place that they could take a referendum. telegrams were despatched all over the countrv by the Premier and Home Secretary. Of "coui·se, it was necessary for the returning officers to get instructions ; but I believe members of Parliament and manv other Labour organisers, and that sort of thing-had those telegrams sent to them; and some members of Parliament did not even get those telegrams until after the election was nearly over. According to the amwer I got to a question the other day, tho>e telegrams cost something like £400. I !liD s'?rry that the Home Secretary conld not !J"IVe me the cost of taking the election on that. referendum qaestion on the abolition of the Upper House: I beli!'ve th~t when everything i' reckoned up the cost of all this umw~essary action that the Government tank in th~t direction will be something bdwern £17.000 and £20.000. I sa·.' that that money could have been di,·erted into a better channel; thrre w:1s no necessity for t-hnt referendum. Tlwn, the Premier has added insult to injury because he makes out that thi' electors were not intelligent enough {·c, understand the question: and that if thcv harl. the vote would haYe been an entirelv different one. However. bv a very large ·majority the electors of Queensland hqve 0ndcr,ed th0 action of the Upper House, nnd in doing so they have given a strong Yote of f'Cns~u·e on the Government. In fact, if any decent Government had been in PO''· er afte:· doing- ,,-hat thev did. thev would have re,igned shaight awrry and appealed to the conntrv. !Government lang-htH.) It was a votC' o"f confidence in the ·F pper House, as azain:::t a vote of c,_•nsure on the bon. gentlemm opposite. If it had not been for th•J Fpp,;r House, what would have been the position of affairs in Qncensland to-day? 'I'hev are bad enough flS it i-;. but they would have been considerably worse.

Now, I want to refer also to another State enterprise in the shape of our State " pub ,.

Mr. Petrie.)

314 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

or hotel. That is the Babinda hotel. I believe it is a palatial residence and a very fine building, but it is not even up to what was expected. I understand that instead of accommoda,ting about a thonsa.nd people, as is required up there, it can only accommo· date ctbout seventy, and they are running it first and second class. This hotel cost a lot of money, and it was also useless expendi· ture and against the laws of the country. They would not allow a private individual to do what the Government have done in that direction. I was informed by a person­who was present-or rather I saw it in some correspondence in one of the news· papers-that a per-.on who was present at the opening of this hotel said that he listened t0 speeches by Messrs. McCormack and Huxham. H<-l must have been a relation of yours, l\lr. Speaker, as he spells his name the same way. He said that they gave a lecture. I don't know whether it was a temperance one or not, but probably it was one of those temperance lectures that you might describe as being divided into two parts-one part whisky and the other water; or one part beer and the other speeches. He sayc that within an hour after those speeches with a few exceptions, nearly every man i~ th·; place was drunk. He also said that one stor,,keeper~-and there may have been other3 -had even to close his doors and windows to ke~p the drm:ks out. \V e had the spectacle of children commg home from school earlier than was usual, and their mother asking them what was the reason for it. They said. " Oh. mamma. a drunken man has chased us with a knife." (Government laughter.)

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: Don't Jibe] the working man up there.

Mr. FREE: That is a childish yarn.

1\lr. PETRIE: That shows that, at all events,. we are. !lOt doing anything towards t~~ social cond~hons and surroundings of the nsmg generation around Babinda. Then again. it is also reported-! don't know hm; true it is-that the Home Secretary contem· plates-and I suppose the Government is ":ith him in that respect-putting in .a dis· t11lery plant there as an annexe to this Babinda hotel. I believe the carrving capacity of. it will be 1,200,000 gallons: be­cause there IS hkely to be a famine in whisky and it is becoming a serious question. It also says that a firm in the electorate of the l"l<;n .. member for Maryborough-Walkers Limited-got the contract for the job. Whether that be true or not I don't knmv On the. ques.tion of the State groggery, I would JUSt hke to read something that ap­peared in the " Sun" of Sunday last. It refers to the Babinda hotel-how many bars it contains, and so on ; the cost of the out· lay-£25,000-means ~bout £350 per head of the people they can accommodate. Now the Cairns "Post," in a recent issue deal: ing with the State hotel at Babind~ asks when something is going to be done t; alter the 2tate of affairs at Moolibah in the same district. It proceeds-- '

" For the size of the place, I should say there vcas more sly drinking in Moolibah than in any other place in the State. From morning till night, seven days a week, sly grog-selling is going on, and no one can go to Moolibah on the train, almost any day, but he will see one or more drunken men hanging about the platform and adjacent places.

[Mr. Petrie.

Sunday after Sunday, from 8 o'clock in:, the moming till the going dmvn of the· sun, a knot of more or less drunken men are playing 'two-up' on what doe~­duty for a street, and the air is laden with the lurid language that these men indulge in. assailing the e·ars of any who are unfortunate enough to get near them. Should there be a sober man among them, his are the winnings f01·· the day. Protests have been put in, re­presentations made by the construction staff of the railwav, but without anv result. Are the powers that be quite impotent in the matter? It certainly looks like it. I hope there is no other civilised countrv where the law can be so openly defied, for if there is, it is m a parlous state, e,ven as \Ve are in this matter. \Vhen :\fr. Huxham was open­ing the Babinda hotel, he spoke of stand­ing firml_v behind any effort to stop thi& kind of thing, and to endeavour to dean: up the place generally. \Vords, mere words, snoken to tickle the ear of the· groundling>, for if he was in earnest, something should at least have been at­temptf'd ; but, so far as anyone knows. no such attempt has been made. The pity· of it is that \Ye are not governed nowa­days. \Ve have any number of laws for our guidance and obedience, 1vhi'?h. if enforced in their letter and spirit, would make for our social wellbeing. This :Moolibah business is a disgraceful and: unhol_v thing, and we hope >Oon to lH :J.r that it has at least been scotched, if not killed."

That is a nice thing to appear in our daily Press. I suppose they would not insert it­if they could not substantiate the charges it. contains.

Then, we have some more window-dressing in the Speech; we are told that we are· going in for shipbuilding. I would like lo see shipbuilding gone on with, but the­Gov•Jrnment are aware that the Common­weaith are taking the matter up. The Commonwealth Government have been hav-

ing conferences >vith the variou&­[4.30 p.m.J organisations down South, as,

before starting operations, they want to be assured of continuity of labour and of absence of strikes. \Ve know what Jus happened already as far as shipbuilding is concerned in Australia. We have a. spectacle in our warships. The " Brisbane,"· which was constructed in the Federal dock down South, cost between £850,000 ana £900,000. Owing to the war I cannot get the· exact figures, as they have never been given, but in May, 1915, Mr. Jensen, the then• Minister for the Navy, admitted in the House of Representatives that the "Bris­bane,'' then only "three parts completed, had· cost £670,000. Xow, we will contrast that with the " Melbourne" and the " Sydney.'· ThHe sister sl1ips were built in Britain and" were actually commissioned for £305,000 and' £285,000, respectively. That shows a Hst difference. First of all. we have the labour· question to consider. Unless we have labour· upon which we can depend, and not be con-­stantly having strikes. we cannot talk about going in for these industries. \Ye want our men to be reasonable. and to be satisfiecT when they g~t a good thing to remain quiet for a time and not keep asking for further awards. All the decent men in the unions are aware of this. Things are at such a

Address in Reply. [24 JuLY.] Address in Reply. 315>

stage now that before long we will not have !"ny decent tradesmen, as they are depreciat­mg fast.

An HONOURABLE M:EX!BER: \Vhat does " Knibbs" say?

Mr. PETRIE : In answer to that inter­jection, "Knibbs" say-s that during the year 1916 WE had no less than 508 strikes, invoh-­mg 170,633 men and women, who lost in t~e. aggregate, 1,675,930 working days,' for :vnwh they would ~ave bE'en paid £967,604 m wages; and bes1de,s that the incidental amounts lost to the States and the Common­wealth are incalculable.

Mr. KIRWAN : \~hy do _you not quote the figures for productiOn, whwh show that it is the highest ever reached in Australia not--withstanding the strikes? '

Mr. PETRIE: That doE., not alter tho fact that I am stating. The Commonwealth G~vernm~nt are going into the question of sh1pbui!dmg, and the various States can assist them in any direc-tion possible. I would ~1ke !o see a g1:eat many things pro­~~wed m this country If the conditions were mfferent. I ki_Iow that there are many things we have to Import here which we could produce. I believe in giving fair play. I h_ave employee! a good many men in my tnne, and we have never had any trouble. Of course, I know that there are unprincipled employers as well as employees. I would be: the. very first to condemn any employer who cl1d not do what I considered to be justice to his men. It is not the unionists as a rule, who are to blame; but some of the men who get in who are not tradesm8n and who advocate putting every man on the same f()?ting. I. beli~v.e in paying every man acco~dmg to h1s ability, and if a man can do piecework he should be allowed to do it and make as much money as he can. They want to bring every man to the same level, but that c,wnot b~ done. As long as that state of thwgs eXIsts we shall never have industrial rest.. \Vhat is the good of the Federal ArbitratiOn Court or the Indus­~rial Arbitration Court in Qu~ensland, mak­mg awards. The Industrial Court is alreadv flouting this Parliament. There was an understancling corn~ to between the managers of both Houses With regard to the prehr­ence system, but W8 find that in the awa"'d the. ju~ges granted 11reference to unionists, whiCh IS contrary to the understanding be­tween the two Houses. I think that the Government. oug)1t to bring in an amendment of the Arb1tratwn Act, so as to place on the statute-book the effect of the agreement come to between the two Houses with regard to the power of the Arbitration Court to ~nder preferen.ce, and the sooner they bring m an am~ndmg Act altering the present state of thmgs the better it will be.

W_e hear ~ good deal about our public service, and 111 t!1e last. two Speeches of His Excellenoy m this Parliament reference was made to the fact that the Government were !l'oin(i to. appoint a Royal Commission to mqu_Ire mto t~e wo_rking of the public sernce.. but th1.s sessiOn we hear nothing about It. I believe there has been a meet­ing . of public servants lately. The public sernce has been seething with discontent and I think it is about time that som~ inquiry was made into the working of this huge concern.

Hon. J. ToLMIE: And equal justice given.

Mr. PETRIE: Yes, equal justice to the m~n. I. asked for a return, which the Pre­mier laid on the table, showing the number· of men who had been appointed since this, Governm;;nt came into power, and it is a. very cons1dera.ble number. I think that it is. on!:. a fair thing that men in the service" should be given the promotion which is due· !o them, if they are fitted for the. position, n;stead of men bt,ing dragged in from out­side. ~n the. extension of the fish industry whiCh IS takmg place it was necessary to­have a man appointed who understood the· business. But here is the funnv part of it I noticed that the gentleman ~ho has bee~· appointed was the late manager at the· Qneensland Meat Export and American Com­p<my's works, and he is a very goo·d man, too, and he gets a salary of something like· £600 a year. Our Harbour Master, who ie.-. at the head of our fisheries-aJthough the Treasurer says this is a different department" -and who has under his charge 2 000 miles' of coastline, gets a less salary 'than the· gentleman who has been -appointed to look after cold storage and to manage the fish depot on the other side of the river. It is. onlv right that these anomalies should be rectified: In the Railway Department the .. men are not satisfied. My time is nearly up, and I will not go into several other matters which I intended to refer to. I think the present Government have nearlv­!l'ot the ship of State on the rocks; they will llave her on the rocks before they are­finished, and whatever Government may follow them will have some difficulty in lift­ing her off the rocks and steering her­through the shoals and sands into the harbour­of p1:osperity. I only wish that the general· electiOn was to take place to-morrow, because· I believe that the present captain and crew would then be discharged and sent into· oblivion. The people have suffered much oppression. The Government have crushed' the primary producers, and, instead of put­ting returned soldiers on the land, they will' probably put them under the land. I believe­the Government will be turned out of office at the next election, and that a number of hon. members opposite will lose their seats.

Mr. FREE (South Brisba.ne): I wish to­say a few words in this debate. In the first place, I congratulate the mover and seconder, of the motion for the adoption of the­Address in Reply upon their admirable­speeches, and <tlso upon their victory at the· by-elections. The fact that the elect-ors have· sent them here proves that the sectarian devil' which was raised at the last election, and' the war fever which has been brought about in Queenslana. has not turned the heads of· the Queensland electors from the good work" done by the Ryan Government. (Hear, hear!) In my opinion, the National party­is ]eel by on•? of the most umc,rupulous leaders­in politiC's ever known. vVe have his words­on one occasion when he said he woul-d not he in favour of conscription, and the next time he was in ffivour of it. The very first· act of the Federal Government when they­came intD power was to frame the War Pre­cautions and Food Prices Regulations, which· I have here. \Ye find the week after the­Government was returned the prices of com­modities advanced, and those were articles. which are always use<:] by the worker. We· find that kerosene. which was only 6s. 6d., was advanced to 7s. 6d., or from 13s. to 15s. a case. This list was issued to the member&

:Mr. Free.]

::316 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Add·ress in Reply.

-of the Traders' Association in April, and it came here about the 8th May. It comes out a week after the prices are fixed, which goes to prove that arrangements had been made that these prices would be permissible if the :National Government gut back to power. We also find that "Tramcar" pickles ad­vanced from lld. to 1s. ; milk, from S~d. to ls. 1d.; sauce, 1s. to 1s. ld. A most peculiar thing is that Holbrook's sauce, which is mostly used by the well-to-do people, remains

-exactly the same, but the next brand has been . advanced 1d. per bottle. Then, take soaps; No. 1, from ne!. to 10~cl. a bar; kerosene, from B!d. to ll~cl. a har; Barilla and Lotus, from 9~cl. to 1s. ; Vel vet, from 9~cl. to 10d. ; and Magic Cleanser, from 1s. to 1s. 3d. The prices of these common commodities were advanced a week after the National Govern· ment got into power. I do not find in that list anv of the names of the different scented soaps 'and oatmeal soaps used by society. Evidently the prices of those soaps have not been increased. The last speaker spoke about the recklessness of this Government, but, ;trange to say, he did not mention anything about the land clown at the Hamilton, which was valued at £21,000, but for which the late ·Government paid £71,000. Not one word about that, although it is in his own elec­torate. He said th,-, last Government left us a surplus, and did not make any of these foolish deals.

Mr. PETRIE: You do not know what you ·are talking about.

Mr. FREE: Talking about Germans, we know there are Germans just as good as the English or any other man, and Sir Robert Philp thought so, as will be seen by '' Han· sard" for 1910. He said there are 4,000,0CO 'Germans in Germany on the point of stan·a· tion, and that these men would have to go somewhere, and why not bring them here to Queensland? That is one of your Nationalists-one of your flagwavers.

Mr. SmTH: He said they were our best oettlers, too.

Mr. FREE: Yes, I would like to remind --our friends opposite, who are always trying to mak<.' out that this party is the only ·disloyal party in Queensland. that the Liberal ,Government gave Germany preference in the building of our dre-dges to the extent of thousands of pounds. They forget all thec•e things. Our friend opposite also spoke about the price of meat. I expect he is well aware at the present time that the Im· perial Government are getting meat cheaper from the colonies under the arrangement made by the Premier than from anywhere else in the world. He knowc that is a fact, but he would not mention it.

A GovERX}JEXT Th'lEMBEn: They wanted to rai:;:e th£' price.

i\Ir. FREE: Yes; two deputations waited on the Premier and asked him to put up the price to the Imperial Govcrmn0nt, but the Premier rightly turne-d them down in accordanc<' with the Labour party's practice and principle. and they -did not like it. Our friend also rderrcd to the fact that the refer·

-endum wa< lost, and said that this Govern· ment should have resigned. I expect our friend swears by the "Courier," and, strange

·to say, the "Courier," in May last, said it was not usual for a Government to resign

<On the result of a referendum. We find the

[Mr. Free.

"Courier" talks like that. and yet hon. member; opposite come here and ask the Government to go out. Of course, they want to get in. The other night, hoi_l .. ~embers opposite said that the Popular Imtmtlve and Referendum Bill had been turned down, and asked whv should the Government want to bring it !n again. I ask, why, when con· scription has been turned do_wn_, they want to bring it on again? Conscriptwn has been turne-d down throughout the length and brea-dth of _\.ustralia, and yet hon. members opposite a-dvocate conscription _every night . I think it is '·' very cowardly thmg for those who cannot go to try and foroo other men to go.

Mr. Th1FRPHY: Didn't you vote to conscript the Auotralian kid 'I

Mr. FREE : No. :Mr. :MunPHY: Yes, you did, when you

put the Labour party in pow&r.

Mr. FREE: We didn't vote t-o conscript the Australian kid when we put you out of the Labour party.

I am ven· pleased to see that cold storage space is to be provi-ded in Brisbane, an:d also markets. It is very necessary for this G_o· vernment to go in for markets, as It will reo-ulate the middlemen and regulate the ,wi'ce of wheat and other produce. It is quite time something was done in this con· nection, and the Ryan Government could well follow the fine example set by Kruger, of South Africa. in the marketing of pro­duce. n would be a gond thing for Queens· land if we were as enlightened as Kruger wa" in the marketing of produce.

I also see that there is to be an amend­ment of the Stamn Aot. I hope when this amendment i; befng considered the nec~s­sitv of placing stamps on wages sheets will be" done away with. It is absolutely cruel that a man who rec•-,;ves a couple of pounds a week or a girl who receives £1 per week should have to sign a wages sheet and put a 1d. tax on same. '\Ve find men receiving £3,000 a vear are objecting to a little extra tax for w:~r purposes and yet a girl receiv_ing £1 a week has to pay a ld. tax every time she signs a wages ::J:eet. There '?'re many other improvements that I would hke to see brought about, but there is one thing in particular which I v. as rather surprised to find possible in Quemsland, and that is the state of conditions shown bv the evidence given before the miscellaneous workers' hoard last week. We are told we should be wry loyal and that we should be singing " Rule, Brit,.tnnia" and " Britons Never, NeYer Shall be Slaves." Yet I find, accord­ing to the list here, a condition nothing less than slaYerv exists in laundries owned by X ationaliets" and people who sing those sungs. 'fhe wages vary from 10s. to £1 7s. 6d. for a week of forty-eight hours in those laundries. Fancy a girl being expected to keep herself respectable and live a good life on 10s. per week. It is shameful. Take " A" as an example. She does sixty-one shirts, two pairs of trousers, and sel'enteen eoats during her thirty-three and a-quarter hours. That girl receives 12s. for a week of thirty-three and a-quarter hours and no food whatever. There is worse than that going on -in those laundries run by religious institutions. No wages are paid. A poor woman finds herself in trouble. She has to sign on for a certain time after the child

Address in Reply. [24 JULY.] Address in Reply. 3171'

is brought into the world; she has to labour there to work out her board while at the institution. According to this evidence, which is taken on oath, we find that if a woman has to put the· child to breast during V\ or king hour.; ehe has to make it up at nio-ht and yet these institutions are known i~Sb th~ "Sa~riour's Retreat" and the "'Holy Cross Laundry" and so on. " Holy Hell,'' I call it, to force a woman to work under those conditions! Those are the conditions existing in Queensland. Now take "F." She did 139 shirts, eleven pairs of pants, two vests and thirtv-nine coats during her forty­thre~ hours. For that she received the large sum of £1 Ss. 5d. These are the conditions under which Hte girl5 work in these laun­dries, and yet the people here tell us what a glorious place Australia is to live in. I am pleased to see that the chairman of the board. Mr. Lamont, is quite in accord that something will have to be done in regard to these laundri"'· There is another serious condition of affai1·s brought out in the evidencP in regard to the Japanese laun­dries. In the furniture trade, as pro' ided by the Arbitration Act, not more than one partner is permitkd to work over hours, but the inspectors find great difficulty when visiting the J apanes•J laundries because im­mediately they want to know what a certain man is doing at night he is informed that he is a partner. If he asks what this woman is doing, "Oh, she is a partner." That matter wants looking into and remedying.

There is another thing I want to touch on and that is the necessity of placing co­op!)ration on the same footing here as it is in the oJ.d countrv. A deputation waited on the Premier in i·egard to this and I also wrote nim on the matter, and received the following reply:-

"Dear 11r. Free,-" VVith refu2nce to your inquiry with

regard to a Bill to deal with co-operative enterprises, I regret that the pressure of business and the obstruction of the Legislative Council during the last session of Parliament prevented us deal­ing with the m:1,tter. 'I'he question, how­ever, will not be lost sight of when an opportunity presents itself to take suit­able action.

"Yours sincerely, "T. J. RYAN."

I wish to bring before this Houce and also before the workers of Queensland what co­operation ha.s done for the vrorkers in the old country, and I see no reason why we should not hav<' a similar Act on our statute­book so that the workers here would be in a similar position. According to the figures compiled from returns made by societies to the Regi 7 tr.a of Co-operative U niol1f< in the old country, we find in the retail trade there are 3,504,456 members, with a share capital of £46,2.35.849 and loan capital £22,833.606. The sales for 1914 amounted to £147.550,084 and the net profits \',ere £15,609,484, while ihey devoted to education in 1914 no les.~ a sum than £113.226. When we see what co-opnration has done for the worker in the old country I see no reason why we should not have a similar Act on our statute-hook so "s to place the workers here on the same footing. In the wholesale trade the number of societies holding shares totals 1.195; the number of shares belonging to members is 2,535,972; share capital (paid-

up}, £2,284,758; loans and deposits,. £6,404,077; reserve fund trade and bank,. £857,335; insurance fund, £1,130.881; sales for the vertr 1915. £43.101,747; net profit for the yea{, 1915. £1.086,962. That is what co­operation has done in the old country.

Mr. ROBERTS: They can do the same here. ::\1r. FREE: Thev cannot do the same here,.

because thcv have to register as a joint stock company, and they have no power to with­draw their capital if they go from one place to another consequently the workers cannot go in for c'o-operation in Queensland.

We have hea,rd a good deal about the wal" and what we should do. It should remain with a man's conscience as to what he should ·do and should not be left to somebody to

say whether he shall go to the [5 p.m.] front or not. I notice also in soma·

of the papers the educational sys­tem of Austr.1lia is given credit for what it ha,s done in this war. The reorganisation of systems of education is regarded as one of the most important of post-war problems. So convinced is the British Government of the necessitv of this that Dr. Fisher, Vice-Chan­cellor of one of the British Universities,· was appointed by ::VIr. Lloyd George. as President of the English Board of Education so that a. qualified expert might be pl?ced in cha,rge of that department with a view to as com­plete a reorganisation as possible ()f the S'.-stem of British education. The value of c·ducation in relation to the present war is strikindv illustrated bv remarks which were· made ]';.; General Thfon.ash and Colonel Rey­nolds. ·General Monash stated that-

" A remarkable feature was the Aus­tralians' inexhaustible supply of skilled labour. It did not matter wha,t was. wanted, artisans \Vere obtainable. . The .\ustralians' success was the magmfioent system of State ed~cation, th~ pr~ducts of which were well-mformed, mtelligent, and self-reliant men, fitted to sei:v~. or· command. It \Vas notable that CIVIlian soldiers often succeeded where experts. failed."

Colonel Reynolds stated, as reported in the "Brisbane Daily Mail" of 13 July, 1917-

" The _\.ustralians are showing anxiety to fly. They display extraordinary ap~i­tude, and invariably beat allcomers m examinations for R.F.C. po·,itions. The· R.F.C. officers freely agree that the A.I.F. should supply more pilots and mechanics, and point out the value of a. reserve of airmen after the war.

" Colonel Reynolds recently sent a squadron of mechanics for R.F.C. te.sts, and the commander made an enthusias­tic sporting offer of £10 for each ~llowed to remain, Colonel Revnolds ascnbes the results of the high standard to the Aus­tralian education svstem. The R.A.F.C. now has various tr;ining camps in Eng­land, and portion of the strength had latelv ITOne to France. The Australian squadr;ns, though incorporated with thE> R.F .C. squadrons, remain purely Aus­trali :m. Some vacancies are filled by borrowing Australian-born fliers from the R.F.C., who appreciate the desire of Australians to serve together."

Colonel Reynolds ascribes the re,ult of the high standard to the education system. Th!"se are very high tributes to the Australian

Mr. Free.]

:318 Address in Reply. [ASSElVIBLY.] Address in RPply.

:system of educa.tion, and show that much of the success of the Australians in war work ·has been due to the systPms of education ·prevailing in Australia. Hence, it may be ·taken that education generally should be one -o: the greatest concerns to the State and that <the State should do what is possible to ad­va.ncP education in every direction. That ospeaks volumes for the Australian system of ·-education when a man like Colonel Reynolds ·attributes the succe&s of Australians to the .syst-em of education in Australia. There is ·not the slightest doubt that owing to the increase in the number of scholarships that ·there is great need for an extension of the .system so far as our seconda.ry schools and University are concerned. We find that at

.the present time the grammar schools are taxed to their utmost limit owing to the num­

:ber of scholarship holders sent there. The cSame may be said of our Central Technic-al ·College. I am pleased to know that the ·Government intend to establish a high school in South Brisbane, because South Brisbane is entitled to it. All the big buildings get

--erected in North Brisbane, and th£• south side is not treated in that respect as it should be. I hope the Minister for Education will stick to his proposal to establish a high school in

-Bouth Brisbane. The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRUCTION :

.Hear, hear ! Mr. FREE: Much has been said about the

·action of the Government in taking a corner of Musgrave Park for the purpose of estab­'lishing a high school there. That portion -of the park is very seldom used. In fact, there have been letters appearing in the 'Public Press pointing out the objectionable ·use that portion of the park is put to at ·night. It will be a good thing if a school ·i> t'Stablished there. I notice that there is a

·petition going round objecting to the estab­lishment of a school in that park becauscl it. take,; up too much room. \Vhy, in the

·best portion of tha.t park there is a bowling .. green fenced off and padlocked. It is used <>nly by the bowlers, and the ratepayers' children are not permitted to go in there. There is also a portion of the park occupied by the croquet club. That is not only fenced off, with padlocks on the gates, but there is :also a barbed wire running round the top of the fence to prevent the ratepayers from

:·looking over the fence. Fancy a barbed wire and a fence in a public park.

Mr. MuRPHY: Under a Labour Govern­:ment, too.

Mr. FREE :The Labour Government have nothing to do with it. It is the Liberal members of the South Brisbane Council who

. are the ruling power over the park. They

. use the ratepayers' funds for their officers, and they allow their Liberal friends to use the best portions of the park. The mem­bers of the croquet club have a barbed wire on the fence to keep people from looking -over. I do not know what they are afraid <>f the people looking at. Perhaps they are afraid of the people seeing the powder and paint on their faces. The bowling green also has a drinking booth. Those in favour

. of six o'clock closing have a lot to say on that subject, but we never hear them saying anything about the South Brisbane Bowling Club, which has a booth in Musgrave Park, where they can boose all day long and late at night. rhey are allowed to have a

·drinking booth there because they belong to

[Mr. Free.

a certain class and because they are not the workers of Brisbane. I hope the Minister will persevere with his scheme to_ establish a high school in that park. There IS another thing I would like to touch on in connection with education. \Ve do not do enough to encourage ~he training of . teachers .. ';!'he salaries pa1d to teachers, m my op_mwn, are not enough. All the Governments In the past, including the present Government, have had too tight a hold on the purse strmgs when it comes to paying the teachers' salaries. In New South Wales a teacher who goes to a training college gets his education free and is allowed £1 a week to live on. We have nothing of that sort in Queensland. I submit we cannot spend t0o much money in training our teachers thoroughlY because they are the people who have to ~ducate our boys and girls to take their places in the world, and if· we do not ofl:'er good salari~s we will _not get the most proficient teachers. Even _1f a teacher gets £300 or £400 a year that 1s not a very b1g salary when a man has to rear a family as well. The man engaged in business has a far better chance in life, because he is able to earn a bigger salary.

I would like to see a chair of medicine established at the Queensland University. At present we have sc·ience, arts, an_d engi­neering; but when a man takes h1s B. A. degree he has to go and look for ~ profes­sion. It is pretty well the same w1th engi­neering. You cannot find employment for all the engineers who take their degrees at the University. It is different with_ medi­cine, because a doctor can start h1s pro­fession straight away. When the Education Department w,,nted a med1cal man the other day they had to send to Melbourne for one. It is the same with the dentist. \Ve had to get a dentist from Melbourne. \Ve have a lot of voung fellows here who would only be too gl~d to take those degrees here if they could get the chance. At the . present time if a man wants to be a dentist he has to waste three or four years serving his appren­tic>'ship, and then if he gets his diploma it is no good outside Queensland: and he ht:s to stop in Queensland to practise .. '!'here. IS a barbed-wire fence whwh prolub1ts h1m from being registered in the other States. If we had a chair of medicine at the Uni­versitv like they have in the other States it co{Ild also include dentistry, chemistty, and we could aho train men to become oculists. Thev would then get diplomas which would be recognised anywhere in the Commonwealth. In Victoria a dental board succ8ecled in getting a dental chair at the University, and the degrees obtained there are recognised anywhere .

Mr. MURPHY (Burke): As no one else seems inclined to~ occupy the attention of "Hansard" at present, I propose to make a few obs;:rvations on the Speech from the Throne. The hon. gentleman who has just resumed his seat delivered an interesting address on co-operation. \Vhile I was listen­ing to him I faneied that Mr. Denham, the late Liberal Premier, was speaking, because co-operation used to be a favourite theme with him. I have a recollection that at one time the Liberal Government introduced a Bill to enable co-operation to be brought about in Queensland, but hon. gentlemen opposite opposed it. (Government laughter.) Of course, I suppose it was not a Bill which

Address in Reply. (:!4 JULY.] Address in Reply. 319

,suited some hon. gentlemen opposite at that time. No Bill introduced by a Government suits the Opposition. I am sure the Tr<n·

·surer will agree with that. The TREAScRER: The Opposition supported

·some of our measures last session.

Mr. MURPHY: We know that the Oppo­istion a! wa vs sa v that if they had the oppor­:tunity they" coufd improve a Bill .. I am not going to be like the hon, member for Flinders and work the pansh pump, but ·there are a few matters contained in the Address to which I would like to refer.

"The Minister for Public Instruction will, no .doubt carrv out all the things which have been 'brought to his notice by the hon. member for South Brisbane-that is, of -course. if the Treasurer will provide the monev. That seems to be the difficulty at the present time.

In the Speech read by His Excellency pride of place is given to the war, as it ·should be. I was listening to the hon. mem· ·ber for South Brisbane on the question of -<Jonscription. I think an excellent case for further reinforcements has been made out by the third paragraph of His Excellency's :Speech, which reads as follows:-

"American participation in another and greater war of Fb~ration is !ln event of the deepest s1gmficance, qmte apart from its inevitable effect on the duration and issue of the conflict. Nothing could be more gratifying or auspicious than this union of the two great English-speaking peoples in the defence of their kindred liberty and civilisation against a formidable despot whose ambition is imperilling all free nations and democratic institutions."

'Those who address recruiting meetings in -Queensland and those who advocate con­scription have frequently pointed out to <eligibles that in fighting the Central Powers -that they are not only doing their duty to Australia, but are fighting for the mainten­-an<x; of liberty and civilisation in the ·world, to keep Australia free, and for t-he <Continuance of her democratic institutions.

The SECRETARY FOR PL:BLIC INSTRUCTION : How they yell w~en we put on taxation for the returned sold1ers.

Mr. MGRPHY : The hon. gentleman talks -about ho\Y people yelled when the Govern­ment wanted to put on taxation for the returned soldiers.

The SECRETARY FOR PL:BLIO INSTRt:CTION : Yes, your side yelled.

Mr. MURPHY: Whctt taxation has this Government got to put on for the returned .;soldiers?

OPPOSITION ME~IBERS : Hear, hear !

The SECRETARY FOR PFBLIC INSTRUCTION : We wanted to put on £100,000 last year.

Mr. MURPHY: £100,000? Why the Federal 'Government are pro>iding £60,000,000 for xeturned soldiers.

OPPOSITION ME11BERS : Hear, hear ! Hon. J. FIHELLY: And we have to pay

their office staff here.

Mr. MURPHY : The. Secretary for Public Lands dealt with that question last year,

and he pointed out that the mone-:- would b-· refunded by the Federal Government. Has it not been refunded yet?

The TREASuRER: No, we c:tnnot get it out of them.

Hon. ,J_ FIHELLY: vVe cannot get a bob out of them.

Mr. MURPHY: I am sorry to hear that, because I think the Federal Government should be in the position to pay any debt~ due to the State. 'l'he Federal Government seems to be in the same po~ition as the State Government at the present time-short of funds. \Vhenever a deputation waits on any Minister at the present t!me, askin.g f.or ano; public work to be earned out, 1t IS tola that owing to the scarcity of money the work cannot be gone on with at present.

The TREAST!RER : We are wasting a good deal of money in your electorate in sinking a shaft at Croydon.

Mr. MURPHY: You will have to spend £16,000 in sinking that shaft at Croydon, and if the shaft bottoms on good gold you will get it back. The public are finding the balance of the money.

Mr. McMrNN: " If" it does.

Mr. MURPHY: There is always an "if." Hon. J. A. FIHELLY: There is no "if"

about the £16,000.

Mr. MURPHY: You are rig-ht. There i5 no " if " about that. It is forthcoming. So far as that £16,000 is concerned, Croydon hus not got to thank the present Government for it. It was a promise made by the last Government, and an agreement was entered into.

'I'he TREASL'RER : The last Government made the promise and we have to firid the cash.

The SECRETARY FOR Pt:BLIC INSTRL'CTION : It was a promi~e made on the eve of an election.

Mr. MGRPHY : It was not made on the eve of an election at all. It was long before the election. As a matter of fact, if I looked at the matter from a purely personal stand­point-that of winning the electorate-! would not want a lot of new miners there. (Laughter.)

The TREASURER: You will soon have to sing your "Swan Song."

Mr. MGRPHY: I have swum the Niagara quite a number ~f tim\s, and I am ql_lite prepared to try 1t aga111. If the Cabmet were honest in their profession of belief . in one vote, one value, they would not gr_ve me a chance t-o contest the Bm·ke agam. Thev wouJ.d come down with their Redistri­bution of Seats Bill. They would do that if thev believed in " one vote, one value " ; and then not only would my electorate be wiped out, but the Treasurer's electora;te would be wiped out also, and there are qurte a number of electorates represented by hon. gentlemen on that side of the House which also would be wiped off the electoral map.

Hon. J. A. FIHELLY: You and the Trea­surm· couJ.d then have a go for the amal­gamated Chillagoe.

~r. MURPHY: It would hA a very inter­esting contest, but the ·Treasurer would have a bil, t.he best of it because he would have

Mr. Murphy.J

320 Address in Reply. [ASSEl\'I:BLY.] Address in Reply.

th2 money at his back. He v:cnld be ah1 _•

to go along into the Chillagoe electorate and promise them quite a number of things, just as he came to the Gulf on the eve of the last election, and promi·ed that, if they would only turn me down for the electorate, they would be getting butter at h. per lb. {Laughter.)

The TREASrRER: You are drawing a little on your imagination. It was not butter.

Mr. ML:RPHY: Not at all. If the Trea­surer will recollect, he received a full report of that speech in the "Croydon l\1ining Nec•,s,'' and the editor, in order that the Treasurer might not, later on, be able to say he had been misreported, sent him along the proofs of his speech; and I happened to come along to the "Mining News," which is my property, ar-d noticing these proofs with the Treasurer's corrections upon them, I natur 1ll:-- put them in my pocket for future reference. (LaughtPr.)

The TREASURER: The trouble is, they did not take my S\lgge•-tion; they elected you.

Mr. ML:RPHY: That shows their good sense. bPcause, if they had elected the repre­sentative whom thee Treasurer was speaking for, the probability is that they would not have got that £16,000, because the :Minister would have been able to bluff him, and he has not been able to bluff me. I hope that, a'' a result Ol the expenditure of that £16.000, not only will Croydon prosper-and if Croy­don g·oes ahead Normanton will also prosper-but that the State will benefit also. I am not a shareholder in the concern at a!!; I ha Ye been too poor to put money into any more mining specula­tions for the present, but I hope that tho .. ·e who have put money into it \\ill be rewarded in the 3hape of regular dividends. (Hear, hear!) We know perfectly well. as was in­terjected from the other side, that there is a big "if" in all mining speculations. It is that big " if " that has made Chillagoe so dull, that has made the Etheridge so dull. and has made other goldmining centres of Queensland so dull alba. If expectations had been realised, those centres would be pros­perous. It was that element of "if" which probably induced the Public \V arks Commit­tee to turn down a railwav which the Go­vernment appeared anxious to construct in the Cloncurry district. However, since I was here last, there have been what the Americans call " some happenings" in Queensland_ \Ve have had the Legislative Council referendum; we have had the deficit -the first for something like fourteen years; we have had the Trea;urer's criticism of the I.iY.\V. at the eight-hour banquet; \Ve have had the FedPral elections and we have had certain State by-electior,o;; and we have had the refusal of the Premier to drink that toa~t of the twelve industrial workers which was proposed at a Mackay banquet and which was drunk in silence-a silence, I suppo,e, that was too deep for words. Now, so far as the National victory is concerned, there has bem a great deal said about it; but, after all, what does it amount to? Merely that a few thousand people who, at the last Federal '·lection, voted for the Labour party. turned over on this occasion and voted for the National candidates. There was a big sentiment behind that vote, it must be granted. but it only shows that when we hear of big party victories, they

[Mr. Murphy.

r9ally do not amount to anything after all. If each si·de received representation in Par­liament, according to the votes polled, it would be a ml_lch better parliamentary sys­tem and mu<'h better for the State. Take­Queensland to-day. At the recent Federal elections the National candidates won the Senate seats. And it was the same right throughout Australia. Notwithstanding the votes which were accorded in favour of the Labour party throughout Australia at the­Federal elections--

Mr. KIRWA!'; : Three-quarters of a million.

Mr. l\HJRPHY: They have not a single· representative as a result of that vote in the Feda·al Senate to-'day. Previously, when we heard all the talk about the Labour victor.), notwithstanding the thousands and' thousands of votes that were recorded for­the Liberal candidates, they never got a representative in the Senate. In view of these facts. it seems to me that proportionaf representation would be a goqd thing to be included in some of the party platforms. Years ago, when a difference arose between the Le,;;islative Assembly and ihe Legislative­Council, a general eJgction had to be resorted to in order that the matter might be fixed up. The Cabinet of the day generally went to the Governor and made certain proposals to deal with the situation. If those proposals were not acceded to. _His Excellency waq generally asked to grant an appeal to the 1WOf)]e. If the Government obtained a majority as a result of that appeal, th0 LegislatiYe Council usually passed doe measure in dispute. That was a cumbersome method and an expensive way of settling the dispute. It was unfair to the membeb of the Legislative Assembly.

A GovER'')!Ec-;T ::\IE1IBER: Very risky, that 1vas.

Mr. Ml::RPHY : And, as the hon. gentle­man remarked a verv risk·-· method of settling the dispute. So." finally", Mr. Kidston introduced the Parliamentary Bills Referen­dum Bill, which was passed by both House~ and placed on the statute-book; and there­is not a Bill which has been in dispute between the Government and the Legislative Council that could not, by this time, have been placc3d upon the statute-book of Queens­land if the people so desire. The Govern­ment have poweJ: to refer these matters to the· people, and if they can obtain an cffirmative vote from the electors of Queensland, that ends the cpposition of the Legislative­Council.

The SECRETARY FOH PcBLIC INSTRUCTIO::<! : -very expensive, usual!:.

Mr. MURPHY: \Vel!, it may be expen­sive; but I don't know that it would b" as expensive !S the referendum which was taken rccentlv on the Legislative Counc.il. If objection can be raisPd to this pr?r:osal on the score of expense, how can the M1mstel' for Public Instruction support the Initiative­and Referendum Bill?

The SECRFTARY FOR PUBLIC l"STRGCTIO::<r : Those arP for large measures ; these arc individually small,

Mr. MCRPHY: The hon. gentleman says the measures in dispute were very small.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRUCTION : No, I didn't.

Mr. MURPHY: ::\'ow, we know perfectly well that the Premier has said that he would

Address in Reply. [24 JULY.] Address in Reply. 321

stake the existence of the Government upon them; that unless he could get certain of those measures through both Houses of Parliament he could not do for the people what the Government proposed to do for them, and that the cost of living could not be redwed.

The SECRETARY FOR PcBLIC lNSTRcCTION : W<c wonld have to take a dozen different referendums. It would be better to have vne referendum.

Hon. J. TounE: And the people turned it down promptly and sharply,

Mr. MlTRPHY: It was a bit of bad luck for the Government that they did so, fend it was a bit of good luck for our old friend Bill Hamilton, who used to represent 1he Gregory. I am sure that any Inember, on whatever side of the House he sits, will be ver:c plea,ed that our old friend has dropped into a nite, lucrative job; and I am sure the hon. gentleman will iJJl the position very capably. I don't know anvbody in this Chamber, except myself, who could fill it better. !Laughter.) ~ow, I believe that i£ the Government had submitted to the people t~e question of abolishing both the Legisla­tlve Assembly and the Legislative Council, there would have been a big affirmative vote. The people are getting absolutelv sick and t!red of dections; thPv are getting sick and t1red of the two methods of taxation. \Vhy, the big firms that can employ a number--

Mr. COLLI~s : Are the big firms the people?

Mr. MlJRPHY: The hon. o-entleman would not allow me t<:> continue. If he doe" he will discover that I am pointing out that the b1g firms are not the people. I am mving that the big firms who can emplov a number of clerks don't worry about making out a cou1~le of income tax returns during the year. The.Jr books are always up to date, and it i3 not a great deal of trouble for them. But it is the little tradesmen-the little man­who is getting absolutely sick and tired of getting an income tax paper to fill up for the State department; he no sooner gets his assessment notice back-and in some in­stances has a struggle to pay the amount at which he has been assessed-than he has t<:> start upon the Federal income tax.

Hon. J. ToLllfiE: Then he has to start on the State land tax.

The SECRETARY l!'OR PUBLIC INSTRUCTION : There is also a Commonwealth land tax and local rates.

Mr. H. J. RYAN: Somebody has to pay for the war. If the man who has got it does not, who is going to?

Mr. MlJRPHY: I,a'? not complaining at the Government obtammg money t<:> pay for the war; but I do say this-that it is very cheeky on the part of the States, and all the States of Australia are included in that re· mark-to be continually telling the public that they have to impose more taxation for war purposes, when thev do not have to find a solitary shilling to conduct the war.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRUCTION: Not to conduct the war, but in consequence of the war.

Mr. HoDGE: You are sen·ding wages up kite high.

Mr. MURPHY: I will show to the hon. gentleman directly that his own party, in a pamphlet which they issued on the eve of the last election, said that, as far as the State Government was concerned, it ha>d to

1917-x

find no monev for the war-not a penny. The hon. mem.ber for Keppel the other night dealt with rhe dp!J.cits at the time that the Hon. Robert Philp was in charge of the Cabinet.

The SECRETARY l'OR PuBLIC INSTRUCTION: A million and a-quarter.

:Mr. MlJRPHY: Didn't we have the big­gest drought at that time that Queensland had ever experienced?

The SECRETARY FOR PcBLIC INSTRUCTION : We have had nearly as big.

Mr. ML:RPHY: The paetoralist was wiped out; the dairyman was wiped out; the Sta~e was losing thousands yearly upon the ra!l­wavs. Thev had to borrow money. The Go­vernment. had to raise money 111 order to provide employment for the poople who could not get work.

Mr. McMINN: Was not the minim~ in­dustry flourishing then?

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRUCTION : Didn't we have war and drought-bigger difficulties?

Mr. J\I'CRPHY: The mining industry was flourishing at that time. But will the hon. gentleman argue for a moment that Charters Towers was able to absorb the thousands of men who were unemployed at that _tim"? Could all the men who had been workmg m the dairvino- districts find employment in Croydon; Gympie, Charters ';I'owers, and Chillagoe which were at that time the most prosperou's of the mining centres?

The SECRETARY FOR PcBLIO INSTRUCTION : Be fair. Haven't we had war and a drought which was nearly as bad as at that time?

Mr. MURPHY: No. The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRUCTION :

Yes we have; the second worst drought in hist~ry; for a· year.

Mr. Ml'RPHY : I think it is very :wrong for the Secretary for Public Instructwn to trv to induce the people of Queensland to believe that the war has had anything to do with the deficit.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRUCTION : \Ve built schools last year for £2,000, which to-day cost £3,360 on account of the in­creased cost of material.

~1r. McMINN: Do you not know that gai­vaniped iron is something like £90 a ton?

il1r. ~ICRPHY: I have not tried to find out that g;dvanised iron is something like £90 a ton. I know that from some of the­mining districts such as Croydon and Chilla­goe tons of old iron have been s_ent a way >:nd' obtained a profitable market m Townsv1lle and Brisbane.

Mr. H. J. RYAN: The speculators have dcne well.

Mr. MURPHY: The word "speculator " is alwavs brought in when you are deal­ing wit~h a question of this kind; it is

like that blessed word "Mesopo-[5.30 p.m.] tamia." Some hon. members

have probably never lived on a deserted mining field or on one which is goino- down. You will see dozens of cottages mad~ out of galvanised iron on mining fields in North Queensland. People went away from Croydon and the Chillagoe district and left them there. You could buy places is Croydon for a mere song that originally cost

Mr. Murphy.]

322 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

over £1,000 to erect. I saw a cottage there recently which probably cost £500 or £600, and which was purchased by a station for £40 or £50. There is another cottage in Croydon that cost over £1,000, which is for sale to-day for £70. That iron was there, and there were some carpenters in Croydon looking for employment who discovered that there was a market for galvanised iron and they bought up the buildings and pulled them down.

Mr. H. J. RYAN: What are the banks doing?

Mr. MURPHY: There is only one bank in Croydon now ; we cut all the others out. The hon. member knows that the bank there is like the banks in his district-thev are pretty tight. (Laughter.) I was dealing with the Legislative Council, and pointing out that there was a constitutional method of dealing with that Chamber, but the Govern­ment had in the forefront of its platform the abolition of the Legislative Council.

Mr. COLLINS: Which you signed. Mr. MURPHY: What difference does that

make? Are hon. members who signed the platform for the abolition of the Legislative Council going to flout the will of the people?

OPPOSITION :MEMBERS : Hear, hear! Mr. MURPHY: They sa,y, "Trust the

people." They submitted this matter to the people, who by an overwhelming majority decided that the Legislative Council was not to be abolished. In my opinion, it was the much-derided thrift vote that kept the Legis­lative Council where it is.

Mr. COLLIXS : ThPv turned the Council down in your elector~te.

Mr. MURPHY: I c.uppose that in my electorate there would have been no ad­ditional taxation so far as the ordinary man was concerned under the Hospitals Bill or the Amending Local Authorities Bill, and recollecting that many years ago the Legis­lative Council turned down a railwav in the electorate they naturally went to the poll and voted for its abolition. I would not like to say for a moment that they believed by abolishing the Legislative Council they would be able to get the railway to Croydon from the Etheridge. I noticed a statement, which waf' alleged to co,1e from the Minister for Lands, that the Government proposed to spend a large sum of money in the erection of meatworks on the Normanton River, and in the carrying out of certain railway proposals there, and seeing that the Government have spent many thousands of pounds in the pur­chasing of stations in the N ormanton district I suppose that in the near future something will be done. I think it is one of the finest tracts of cattle country in Queensland. There is a fine river there, good water will bB easily procurable, and there is a fine town, and I presume that the Govern­ment having purchased all these stations will, if thev can obtain money from the Federal Government. do something for that district later on. Of course, all the States are always looking for loan money. I went into a stationer's shop the other evening, There were two or three young fellows discussing politics, and one of them said, " Mr. Barnes is a nice sort of a Treasurer. vVhv. the Federal Government off<>red him £2.000.000 and he refused to take it. My word, if they offer it to Theo­dore he will take it, and the railwaymen and

[Mr. Murphy.

the civil ~ervants will get the money they are asking for." (Opposition laughter.) ThC'Se young fellows were not a ware that loan money is supposed to be used for repro­ductive works, and I do not know that any Government would be justified in borrowing £2,000,000 from the Federal Government to hand it over to the civil servants,

Mr. CooPER: Did vou "improve the shining hour?" (Laughter.)

Mr. MURPHY: No, I did not. I am always carpful to keep from the pu~lic the fact that I am a member of P:uhament. (Laughter.)

Mr. McLACHLA~: They might want you to introduce a deputation.

Mr, MURPHY: It is not easy introduc­ing a deputation to the Cabinet at the pre­sent time, because they all get the stereo­typed answer, " No fm'i.ds available."

We have been told about finance. I want to introduce to the notice of hon. members a pamphlet which wa~ published by tl_le Go­vernment on the eve of the last election. I alwavs like to keep these little documents carefullv because you never know when thev m~y be useful. This is printed on red paper, presumably in order to warn tl_le public that there was danger ahead. In big block letters it stated-

" How Yoc:R Mo!'u GoEs. " A few simple lessons on u very

mysterious subject."

'Vhen I tum over to the back page-and I wipe my glasses very ca,refully-I can see in small type-

" Compiled by E. G .. Theodore. and J. Fihelly for tho campaign committee of the Queensland Labour party."

I presume the E. G. Theodore who signed this document is the same gentleman who now occupies the position of State Tr<;as1;1rer of Queensland. It ~eems to me that it 1s a very desirable thing. on the eve of an elec­tion, to issue pamphleb to the elect-ors, giving them an allegedly true and correct account of the financial position of the State, because thereby you may eventually arrive at the proud position of being head of. the financial department of the State. It iS a very interesting document. It says-

" Finance is a subject that is ap­proached by the uninitiated w~th awe and reverence. It is enshrouded in dark­ness and mystery, and none dare try and penetrate the maze unless it be the banker, the big business man, or the politician.

" But finance in the home is different from national finance only in the magni­tude of the latter.

"If the breadwinner earns £3 per week and spen<ls £4 per week he is on the way to insoh·ency.

" If a man borrows £5 and pays back £7 to the monevlender in interest and still owes £8 for the original £5 bor­rowed he is a fool. Every man and woman will admit so much.

" When the principle is applied to public borrowing no one seems to notice that the same rule should hold good."

Then, in a nice little block letter, so that it

Addresa in Reply. [24 JULY.] Address in Reply. 323

·would catch the elector's eye quickly, they 'bead it-

" 'THE GREAT LOAN TRAGEDY. " Some time this year the people of

Queensland have to pay back to then creditors a sum of £11,728,800. We can't repay the money, so we must arrange that the loans be renewed."

. Hon. members, if they desire to be fair, wiil

. admit that, when Mr. Denham visited Eng­land some considerable time ago, he made

. all arrangements for the repayment of that £11,000,000.

'I'he SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INS~RUCTION : Ht' went to the market too late. We ad­vised them years before.

Mr. JYlURPHY: I know that; the hon. .member was always advising them.

'I'he SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRUCTION: Good advice, too.

Mr. MURPHY: What advice did he give to the present Trl·~surer. {Opposition laugh­ter.) If the hon. gentleman gavB the present 'I'reasurer good advice, and there is a deficit, then the Treasurer could not have acted upon it.

'I'he SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRUCTION: That was advice whi<'h was a great deal

·better than your finance. Mr. MURPHY: I do not profess to Le a

; financier; I have always posed merely as a politician. I have been particularly honest in this m a tt0r.

Mr. FoRDE: You were not honest enough in the stationer';; shop. You were not -a politician then, you said.

Mr. MURPHY: One cannot go into a stationer's shop where there are two or three young fellows talking politics, and chip in, because mv experience in the early days of the goldfields was that if you spoke out of your turn you got something you were not looking for. {Laughter.) As experience teaches, I neyer speak out of my turn when I am in company outside. To continue the interesting documC'nt-

" 'rhus the time is appropriate to in­quire into the why and the wherefore of these Liberal loans, and also ascertain the precise blessings of Liberal finance."

'\Ye turn oYer to page 2, and there are more 'block letters. I think the hon. member for l\([erthyr must haye something to do with the arrangement of this document. (Laugh­ter.) It is nicely displayed. It says-

" READ THESE FACTS."

Then they give a lot of facts, which I do not propose to weary the House with, for

·the reason that members of Parliament are supposed to know all about matters pertain­ing to loan expenditure. I am not, there­

'fore, going to put the figures into " Han-sard," but I want to deal with the para­graphs which refer to these figures. The gentlemen who issued thi;; document says that " loans may be very nece"sary for re­productive works. but is it any wonder that

·our debt amounts to £52.000,000, and that . our debt per head of the population is over £80 ?" Then they start to frighten the elec­tors. Of course it takes a lot to frightPn

·the electors exceph on the eve of an election. " Do you know a man with a wife and

family of four owes £490." 'I suppose they put that paragraph in in

order to induce the man with a wife and family of four to believe that his little home, got under the W m·kers' Dwt'llings Act or by means of careful saving from a small in­come wculd be seized by the Liberals if they were' sent back, and put up to public auction in order that this £490 which is due to the rnonev-lender might be obtainod.

An, HONOURABLE MEMBER interjected .

Mr. MURPHY: I have been reading in millions ever sine€ this war started, and I c .m not tell YOU anything about the figures asked for. I know how much I have got.

Mr. McLACHLAN : Do you know how much you owe'!

Mr. MURPHY: I do. I owe nothing. (Laughter.) I take very good care of that, probably because the other fellow takes good care of it also. (Renewed laughter.)'

"Do you know that a man with . a wife and family of fonr pays £18 m interest every year, which amounts to 7s. a week? Don't you think this system should be altered?"

That in black type as ~ warning to the electors, and they add thiS-

" ,Just ponder the. awful stupidit.y. of a policy that permits of our receiVIng £11 000.000, pay back in interest £16,500 000. and still owe just about £12',ooo',ooo ! That is the kind of Liberal finance that caused the great bank smash of '93. Will you alter these impos,ible conditions?"

GovERNME:;rT MEMBERS: They did. Mr. MURPHY: They did. When you

tell the eledors if they put the other fellow in power they are goipg to collect £490 off them, the voter, arc likely to put the party in power which says it is not going to ask for £490.

Mr. IVEIR: That must be an important document.

Mr. ~1URPHY: It is an important docu­ment. and you will be able to judge of the importance of it when I have conclnded. The document continues-

" That is Liberal finance."

I did not say the Premier's name was at­tached to this document. It was issued by the financial members of the party. I notice that the Premier is something like myself; he is not very strong on finance. (Laughter.)

The PREli!IER: Not very strong financially, you mean.

Mr. MURPHY: I did not like to put it that way. I was afraid of an action for defamation-

" That is Liberal financ@. What do you think about it? Could you conduct your own private -affairs on such a ri·diculous basis and have any respect left? Does a business man take a loan from a banker in the same way? Is it the sort of finance that young Queensland and young Australia stand for? Perhaps you now see why finance is supposed to be a very abstruse question. It would not do for the average man and woman to imagine for a moment that they could comprehend its subtleties and unravel its mTsteries. They might find that there are not any mysteries at all."

More than the average man and woman are

Mr. Murphy.]

324 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

finding something mysterious at the present -time. It is a mysterv how the Government is going to carry on financially.

The SECRETARY FOR PcBLIC INSTRUCTION : What abol!t the 8,000 unemployed m Victoria?

Mr. KmwAN: Soup kitchens under a Liberal Administration.

:Y1r. MURPHY: Probably the rea,on there are no _soup_ kitchens in Queensland at the present time Is because the Government cannot raise the money to equip one. We may JOke about soup kitchens, but it is a regrett":ble thi_ng that in a young countr:, like ~ustraha w h10h, for years past and ever smc;e the outbre:;k of war, has been experi­encmg unexarr;pled prosperity, we should have to establish _soup kitchens; that there should be. deputations of the unemployed to the Premtel' or any other Cabinet Minist<:r. There should be no necessity for such depu­tations ... It ·does _not speak well for any of the pohtiCal partws "hich have had control of Australian affairs. So far as the Gulf is concerned, there is no un­employment. Croydon at the present time is one of the. poorest places in Queensland, but there IS no man out of employment. Scores have had to go to Cloncurrv for work. ·work is available in Normanton and also in parts of the Etheridge district. ' The pastoral industry is pro,,perous and that is affording a considerable amou~t of employ­ment.

Mr. HoDGE: There are no picture shows there, though.

. ~1r. ::VfGRPHY: ~?t many men in the citle~ are _used to muung. The difficulty of dealmg With the quesbon of unemployment is how to put a man just wher,, he is suitable. 'l'here was a time in the history of the Labour movement when there appeared in the ft;r?front of the platform a proposal to estabhsn places where any man who was out of work could go and obtain employment at the current rate of wages as a right. But, of course, none of those places have been establishe~[ yet, and I suppose we shall have to wait until the achievement of that co­opPrative ('Dtnmonwealth that the hon. mem­ber for Bremer tc;>lcl us about the other night before we are likely to see unemployment abolishe-d. Those things are all very well on.fighting platforms, but when men are ap­pomtc-d to the responsible positions of Min­Ister~ of the Crown, and have to handle pubhc funds, they find many of the things they a·dvocated when sitting in opposition do not appear as promising when viewed through Ministerial spectacles. I suppose t~at remark might be applicable to the con­tmual advocacy of a public works commis­sion ;v~en hon. members opposite were in opposition. Probably they are sorry now that they had anything to do with it.

Mr. Moom:: It is a pretty costly affair.

Mr. MURPHY : I just want to summarise this document-

" Finance is the basis of Government· it is also the test of Governments. Apply it to the financial records of the twe parties who are now before you."

That is the docu:nent that was issued on the eve of the ele~twns. We know that there has been a deficit. We know that the Govern­ment has spent more than its income r-nd according to this document, that 'spell~

[Mr, 111urpll'!f.

disaster. We know that so far as !oam :noney is concerned. they have been spe:::Id­Ing as 1nuch as they have been able to geL From loan and trust funds they have spent over £4,000,000. In this document they also, refer t0 the fact that the Labour pctrty ~nd th.: M organ party fixc,d tlw finances of the· State after 1\ir. Philp retired from the Premiership in 1903.

Mr. vVILSO:-<: He left a very big surplus, didn't he?

Mr. MURPHY: I do not know that we· want any very big surplus. I am not advo­cating a, big surplus, but it is poor Govern­ment to have big deficits. ·what do the· Government propose to do in the matter? I presume their policy in this regard will be· disclosed in due course.

'I'hc SECRET.\RY FOR PUBLIC I~STRUCTION : There are no unemployed in Queensland.

Mr. MURPHY: Listen to the Secretary for Public Instruction. Listen to the man who, when he sat on this side of the House· abused the Hon. Robert Philp when he "as­Premier for having deficits at a time when' the country was devastated by drought, when there was unemplovment all over Queensland. No·w he tells us at a time when the}- got a record revenue, when th<'re has been plenty of work all over Queensland--

'I'he SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRUCTIO:!'! : ·we have kept the country prosperous.

Mr. MURPHY: If the country can only be kept prosperous by spending. millions of· loan monev and therebv addmg to i-h" interest bu~den. then it is not going to be much of a countrv at the finish. The hon. member for Kept)el talked the other night about Jogs being tied up. The States of Australia 11re tying up some pretty big Jogs· fo" the coming generation to bear.

'I'he SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRUCTION : Our deficit is very small compared to those· of other States.

Mr. MURPHY: I quite understand that the deficit is smaller than some previous deficits, and I quite understand there are· deficits in other States of the Commonwealth. One of the speakers on the other side, remarked the other night that there was ac wave of deficits, and he was apologising for· this Government. All these deficits have been bTOught about by reckless extravagance.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC lNSTRcCTIO:!'! : Not in this case. The war and drought have had an effect such as yoLl would not credit.

Hon. J. TOL1IIE : The war brought tons of money in.

Mr. MURPHY: Thr· hon. g0ntleman may be> able to explain-bein~ a reasonable man, 1 am alwavs open to be convinced-how the war has affected this matter.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRUCTION : I have told you. I had one school last year which cost £1,200, and this same school this· year will cost over £3,000. That is an example.

Mr. MURPHY: That is an excuse for a deficit next year.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRUCTION : I am showing that the war has increaHed th.: cost of material, and the Government has to bear it. You said the war had noth­ing to do with the deficit, and I am showing that the war had a good deal to do with it.

Address in Reply. (24 JULY.} Address in Reply. 325

Mr. MURPHY: Did not the Treasurer ··tpoint these facts out to us when he tabled •the Budget last year? Did he not say that ·thev had to increase the Estimates in order i;o "provide for that emergency? I grant ·that the expenditure has been heavy, but ·the revenue has been more than was antici­·pated by the Treasurer.

The SECRETARY FOR Pt:BLIC INSTRUCTION: ''The expenditure was greater than we <"Xpcded on account of the war as well. You cannot get over these facts.

Mr. ML'RPHY: WhE>n Mr. Denham was in charge of the Cabinet, was there not a

·drought and a war on?

The SECRETARY FOR PFBLIC INSTRC:CTION : 'Yes, we have had that too.

i\Ir. MGRPHY: When the hon. gentleman ·wpnt to the country and criticised his finances, edid he say a single word about the drought?

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IXSI'RUCTION: 'They did not have a drought.

Mr. MURPHY: Them was the biggest ·drought ever experienced in Australia at 1ohe outbreak of war.

Mr. McMI:s'x : Thev did not feel the effects 'of either the drought or the war.

The SECRETARY FOR PrBLIC INSTRUCTION : "Why not deal with facts?

Mr. MURPHY: I am dealing with facts, and it is because I am dealing with facts

·and proving those facts by reference to a <document issued by the hon. gentleman's marty, that he is annoyed. During the tea

adjournment I looked up some [7 p.m.] figures, and I found that during

the last two years of Mr. Philp's •occupancy of the Treasury benches the revenue decreased bv considerablv over £1,000,000. During th"e two years that the present Cabinet have controlled the affairs

·of Queensland the revenue ha' increased by something over £1,250,000. I was twitted

·this afternoon at having changed m'l' ·opinion upou some questions. There is an ·old saving that it is cnly dccad men and 'fools who nevPr change their minds. I am not dead and I hope I won't be for a long ·time-(hear, hear! and !aughtcr)-and I 'have a mind to change. There are some men on the other side who have also chang-ed

·their opinions. I do not blame them for -that. There \Vas a time some ye3.rs ago when an amendment was moved bv the

•Opposition to allow the public servan.ts the •right to appeal to the Arbitration Court. It was during the time when Sir Arthur Morgan \Vas Premier, and I, with a number

·of other hon. members now sitting on the •Government bench•-s, supported the Premior in his opposition to that proposal. Tl:le reason given for refusing to accept it was

·that, if you allowed the public servants to go ·to the Arbitration Court, then the Tre:<surer would never know how much revenue he would have to raise for the vear. and he would be in a continual sbtte of worrv regarding the financi'tl position of the State. Has that not been proved? Has not the arbitration award given to public servants

-placed the Treasurer in a somewhat awk­ward position? Has not a strike been threatened by the railway se1:vants if they do not get the award to date from February

\last? Have not the Minister for Railways

and other members of the Cabinet decidod that mone:;· 1s not available for State purposes?

Mr. BERTRAl\I: They desire to remove that anxiety from the Treasurer.

Mr. MURPHY: I quite agree t!'>;t the Treasurer is in a very awkward pos1bon at the present time. I, as a believer in arbi­tration, say that the Elen who appeal . to the Arbitration Court ought to loyally ab1de bv the decision of the court. (Hear, hear!) If they are not prepared to do. that, what, in the name of common sense, IS the use <•f the Arbitration Court?

Mr. COLLINS: Does not that argument apply to the " Courier"?

Mr. FOLEY: And to other employers as well?

~Ir. MURPHY: I noticed in to·day's paper that the meat company at Port D.ar­win are paying to the men who are workmg under an arbitration board an extra sum of money in order to induce them not to go on strike.

Mr. vVELLINGTO!'i: That is a Common­wealth award.

Mr. MURPHY: Yes, and we were told that under the Commonwealth Arbitration Act all the evils from which the workers suffered would be removed.

Mr. COLLINS: Why didn't the "Courier'' comply with the a. ward?

Mr. MURPHY: As I am not a share­holder of the " Courier" and have no say in the management, I cannot answer that qu<:>stion.

Mr. CoLLINS: They preach it to the worker.

Mr. MURPHY: Under the arbitration laws of the State and Commonwealth they c•an be compelled to practise what they preach. That is only a fair thing. I sup­pose my time has nearl7 expired.

Mr. FoLEY : You can get an extenison.

Mr. MURPHY: I do not want an exten­sion. I am like the hon. gentleman, it takes me all the time to fiil in one hour. (Laugh­ter.) I have tried to deal with the questions

· appearing in the Sp<:ech from the . Throne without anv party bitterness. Se,nng the position ~f the war, as ind(coJed by the news commg through a1 cl puolished m the daily papets, I think it is pretty well time that we got rid of all party bitterness in Australia and tried to dew things from a trnlv national standpoint. (Hear, hear!) An0:oncc reading the n~v.:s coming .. thrc•ugh must see that the pos1t10n IS cntwal for Australia and critical for the Empire; yet, in spite of that, public men in Australia continue to indulge in all kinds of party abuse and part:1 bitternc~s. I t~ink it is nearly time that the public men m Queens­land and throughout Australia closed up the ranks and realised themselves-and tnPd to induce the people to also realise the fac~­that unless this war cm be won by the allies all our demoeratic institutions will '.lll­

doubtedly be destroyed. Mr. H. L. HARTLEY: What about all the

bitterness last session? Mr. MURPHY: I am not asking the hon.

member to forgive mo anything. M1·. H. L. HARTLEY: What about the abuse

from Mr. Hughes?

Mr. Murphy.]

326 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

Mr. MURPHY: I suppose members on each side have something to forgive and for­get. If Mr. Hughes abused hon. gentlemen opposite, we must all agree that they abused him pretty well, too. You c'mnot win the war by abusing the enemy

Mr. H. L. HARTLEY: We have had nothin~ but abuse from the other side. and that we have been as,ociated with the I.W.W.

Mr. MURPHY: I do not know whether the_ hon. gentleman belongs to the I.W.W. or not.

Mr. H. L. HARTLEY: There, you are saying it yourself.

Mr. MURPHY: I do not know whether the hon. gentleman belongs to the I.W.W. or not. That is his own business. In any case, if the hon. gentleman wa,; at a banquet, and the toast of the I.vV.V{. was proposed--

The SPEAKER: Order! The hon. gentle­man has exhausted the time allowed him by the Standing Orders.

Mr. MURPHY: Th<lt is unfortunate. (Laughter.)

Mr. WINSTANLEY ((;!ueenton): I would like to make a few rambling -remarks on the Address in Reply before it goes through. I have to congratulate both the mover and seconder of the Address in Reply. There is every re:1son to congratulat-e them, because their speeches were plain and straightfor­ward and well put, and I think they did credit to themselves as well as to the con­stituencies they have been sent here to repre­sent. Had nothing been said about the two elections which took place in Maryborough and Rockhampton, there would have been little for this side to crow about in connec­tion with their return. But when we remember that we were told repeatedly that those particular eledions were test cases, and would show very clearly and specifically what the people of Queensland thought about the policy and the administration of this Government. and when we remember all the efforts that were made to prevent them being returned, then it does seem to me that this party and those particular electorates have cause to congratulate themselves on the return of those two members. I am quite sure that their experience and their know­ledge will help this Chamber to come to better decisions on the matters with which it has to deal than if they had not the oppor­tunity of being heard. I hope they will long continue to be returned here, and when we remember that they are both young men in a political sense, we have a good deal to hope for and much to look forward to in that con­nection.

I listened to the hon. member for Burke with a good deal of interest and not without some amusement. The difficulty I have in respect to the hon. member for Burke is to distinguish when he is serious and when he is not. Certainly, as he •aid, there was no party bitterness in his speech, and I do not know that there is much necessity for that kind of thing. Some of the things he said were well worth listening to, and well worth pondering over, and others put the House into a good humour, which I have always been of opinion is a very good thing indeed.

One or two things in his speech I want to rmake reference to. One of them is propor­tional repre,entation. Amongst other remarks, he said that there were some things that looked exceptionally well on paper but did

[Mr. lJltt-rphy.

not pan out so well in practice. I think pro­portional representation is one of those· things. It looks exceptionally well on paper,. and appears to be a very fair and reasonable proposition, but when it comes to be put into· practice in a place like Queensland the proba­bilities are that the hon. member for Burke will find that his electorate. and perhaps Gregory and Flinders, would all be combined into one electorate; and I have no doubt that he finds now that the work is quite big enough. In a place like Queensland the result would probably be that three members would be responsible for one electorate, and each would have to travel over the same· ground and deal with the same lot of electors and I think the hon. member would find th~t, whilst it might be. a very fair and fine-looking thing on pal?er, 1t w~:mld not l?an out anything like that m practiCe. I thmk there is nobody who knows better tl_lan the hon membm· for Burke that there IS some· ,{iff~rence in the value of votes. A vote in the Burke does not get the e:tme representa­tion-although the hon. member may repre­sent that electorate fairlv and honestly­which a vote in the metro))olitan area does. The probabilities ar~ that people within <h

short distance of Brisbane would be better· represented if they had no member at all th:1n some of the electorates \vhose ~embers are eyerlastin,.lv on the "0, and find 1t abso­lutely impossibie t~ get ~what they consider a fair and just thmg_ for elec_torates much· farther awav. There 1s somethmg else to be· considered besides, " One vote one value."

Mr. MuRPHY: I ooid some of your mem­bers were con~)nually talking about " one· vote one value.

Mr. WIKSTANLEY: That does not apply to me, Member' may have talked that ':""Y· but I do not think they could have g1ven· it the consideration it nee-ds, because ~ CO'!-· tend that in places where the populatiOn IS­

so unevenly placed as in Que~nsland such. a.. system might work out anythmg but eqUit­ably and reasonably,

Something was said in reference to the· loan of £11,000.000 which )lad to be con­verted, and amongst other thu;gs I. rememb:r · quite well that the then Prem1er h1mself sa1d that the people who wer~ responsible_ for the· flotation of those loans m the first mstance had displayed very bad judgment, and it wa' very bad finance to have £1~,000,000 of loal' monev falling due at one tune. They were not Labour people who floated these· loans· Labour had nothing to do with them,. so th~t it is quite evident that the Liberals_, might have· displayed mo:·e judgm<:nt and discrimination in the flotatiOn of theu loans than thev evidently did. I think that what­ever side· of the House one may be on, we may ag1:ee that it is a good thing that the loan: was floated and discharged then, although· certainly if it had been_ falling due earli_er it would have b(0Jl po"1ble to com·ert 1t at a much lower rate for the simple reason that monev was be~oming clearer; and we a!: !mow from bitter experience that it has become even clearer since that time.

Now I want to sav a few words about some o.f the statements 'which have come from· members of the Opposition in reference to· this Government. The leader of the Oppo­sition said that this GovernmE-nt were build­ing on the foundations laid by previ~us Governments. Well, I think that, on examm­ation, it will be found that the foundationSo­that have been laid by previous Governments,.

Address in Reply. [24 JULY.] Address in Reply. 327

and particularly by that immediately pre­ceding this Government, have been rather rotten foundations-foundations on which very little indeed could be built in a.ny sh.ape or form. And then the hon. member said that this Government had been remiss in lagging behind previous Governments. ::>Jow, if there is anything that this Government have been charged with. it is with going t<Jo fast a~d too far, much faster and much farther m legislation for the people than hon. member! sitting opposite ever imagined or thought they would go.

It has boen said that the war occupies a prominent place in the Go-:ernor's Spee~h. It is, in fact. one of those thmgs from :vhich we cannot get away. \Ve are faced With It everv da v we find it before us every morn­ing "and· it is with us all day long in spite of ·~n that we mav do to the contrary, and I think it is the ·one thing which is more conspicuous and prominent in our everyday life than anything else at the pre'cnt tmw. But I think that when the hon. member charged this Government with having traded on the war he made a charge which is un­founded, for the trading has been done by hon. members opposite. Xot a debate _has taken place since this Government came I_nto power-it does n~t mat.ter what the subJect rnav have been-m which the returned sol­diei·s have not been introduced-when the war and its kindred associations ha vc not been made practicallY the stalking-horse for hon. members opposite. \Vhile I c-ertainly think it occupies a prominent place and de­mands our close attention, I certainly think it is quite unjustifiable to make use of Jt and drag it in at every opportunity and. on every speech with the idea of makmg political capital out of it for hon. mc·mbe~s who sit opposite against members ?n this side d the House. I want to say that not onlv has the war been made use of in that resp<. et, but quite a number of other things­nationalism, patriotism, sectarianism, and quite a number of reforms-;1aYe. been p_rac­tically dragged through the mll'e with the Jdea of injuring this Government and of bolster­ing up the Opposition-in trying to bolster a decadent Liberalism which has no more re­semblance to true Liberalism than has soot to snow. I think, too, that some of t)'Ie methods adopted by hon. members opposite are anvthing- but fair criticism of a Govern­ment placed in the position in which this Government has been since it has been in power. As a matter of fact, it will be _re­membered by mo.•t hon. members that duy~ng last session the leader of the OppositiOn tried practically to stampede the 4epositors in the State Savings Bank by makmg state­ments, which were utterly untrue, to the effect that there was only £80.000 to meet the demands of depositors amounting to £12,000,000.

HoN. J. TOL:\1IE: I rise to a point of order. I ask if the hon. member is in order in saying that I made statements which are utterly untrue?

The SPEAKER: Does the hon. member deny tlF statements?

HoN. J. TOLMIE: Certainly, I deny them. The SPEAKER: The hon, member who

is speaking must accept the denial. Mr. \VIXSTANLEY: I have no he,itation

in accepting the denial of the hon. mem­ber, because that is parliamentary practice.

(Government laughter.) It would be just as well to turn up '' Hansard " and 'ee what he real!:- did sa,y on that particular occasion.

Mr. MACARTNEY: Absolutely true, every word of it. (Loud Government laughter.)

:\;lr. \YIXSTANLEY: Perhaps it would be as well if the hen. gentleman and his deputy went outside and settled between themselves who is right and who is wrong.

Hon. J. TOLMIE: I deny what the hon. mcmber says, that I made statements which were utterly untrue.

The SPEAKER : The hon. member has had an opportunity of denying that state­ment.

Mr. \VI::-JSTANLEY: And I have ac~epted his denial. The same method of trymg to discredit the Government is ad?pted in an­other placA at the ~resent time-the m­si,dious method of aslung questwns convey­in"" the idea that a certain thing is done. o::e of th<>se questions was whether £2 000 000 had been taken from tho Savings Ba~k 'depositor'' money to pay the in­CTeases to railwav men. Is that a reasonable wav of criticising the Government? If it is, the<n I do nDt know what is unfair or unrea­sonable. This method of criticism is adopted, not only inside the House, but :tlso outside the House. There are orgamsab?ns in Queensland which profess to be workmg in the interest and for the welfare and well­being of the country g:enerally. They po~e as temperance and soma! reformers, but m realitv are Liberal organisations. But, not­withstanding the fact that they are posing. as friends of the people, they are really usmg their position and opportunity to hinder and harass the present Government. \Vhen the previous Governn1ent were. in po·wer ap.d were passino- a Liquor Bill through tins House I att~nded the annual meeting of a. certai~ organisation, and I th~re heard it distinctly laid down that nothmg must be done tl-iat would harass the Government. 'I1wse people had been to ~he Government asking that certain p;·cnswn~ should be included in the Bill, but when Jt came to a question between Liberalism and reform, they decided that nothin_g should be doue which would harass the Liberal Government. The secretarv of the organisation had issued a circular i,{ connection with this particular qupstion and they tried to make him with­draw th~t circular because it might injure the Government, It is well known to most people who go about with their eyes open that there are quite a number of thhe people who are posing as :-efor~ers, and "-:ho pr.eten~ to have certam aims and obJects 1n VIeW,

though their chief des!r~ is to !'-ssist ~I;eir political friends and lllJUre thur political foes. These people are sailing under false colours· thev are pretending to do one thing, ~nd yet at the .same time a:-e tryi~1g to accomplish somethmg else entirely c!Jf­ferent. The leader of the Opposition has had :t !!ood deal to say about the dealings of this ;ide with returned soldiers and about other a.snects of the war, yet the hon. gentie­man has to admit that he ran away frvm v:ork that needed doing. In his positicm upon the \\'ar Council he could have ~on­dered good service to the returned soldwrs and to the State, but he failed to attend the meetings of the council, and the gloomy prophecy he rna de concerni'!'g it has not been realised. Every one admits that the War

Mr. Winstanley.]

328 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

Council has rendered good service to ·,;he community and to returned soldiers. Ther;j -are quite a number of people in the com­munitv who can afford to be patriotic on double pay, but when it. comes to renderi:1g voluntary service they are not there. Th1s Government, I am satisfied, have had more opposition shown towards them than any other Goyernment that has existed since representative Government was introduced into the Commonwealth.

The Opposition have scarcely found their feet up to the present time. During that first session of thio> Parliament their position cwas non est. One hon. member-the hon. member for Toowong-was elected leader, but he was not satisfied. and threw up the \Sponge. Last soosion they were not much better, as regards their organisation,_ and even now it is ·difficult to know who 1s the leader of the Opposition or how many parties there are on that side oi the House. Their opposition t<:> the Government has been in­significallt, but outside there has been a very .strong opposition to the Government, and a strenuous effort has been made to hinder the .Government and pmvcnt them making the progress they should make. This opposition has done its level best to prevent the Go­vernment placing their programme on the .statute-bJok. The Government have had to .contend with difficult conditions brought about by the war, and the drought has .affected both their income and their expendi­ture Yery considerably. But people who .have vested interc<ts which have been to l'Ome extent interfered with by the legisla­tion which has been passed since the present Government came into power have certainly made a very vigoroc1s and strenuous attempt to prevent the Government placing their legislation on the otatute-book. One can quite understand that, because there are people who eall themselves Liberals, but who are Consen-atives at heart, and think that the laws alreadv on the statute-book should be like the laws" of the Mecles and Persians­unalterable, and that no progress should e1·er take place. If progress is made and it interferes with them, thev are verv like the 10ilversmiths of Ephesus; who. \~hen they found that their trade was going from them, <C!icl their [eye] be,t to get out of the way the vcople who were making their gains dis­appear. V csted interests in Queen c.! and. particularly the interest;; which lucve been making a considerable amount of money out .of the people of the State. have no doubt -clone their level best to trv to discredit and upset the Gon•rnment. One's faith has been somewhat shaken even in regard to institu­tions that some of us have been brought up to respect if not to reYere. \Ve have been told that justice must be •clone eYen though 'heavens should fall. but there is no fear ·of the hean'ns falling in Queensland. It seems to me that prejudicn and partisanship 'have im acled some of our sacred inetitutions. 'The Government, and the members who sit behind the GovPrnment. m a v congratulate themseh·es that. in eYerv i'nstance In which an appeal has been made to the higher tri­bunals and people. the policy of the Govern­ment has been approved, and those inclividauls who have opposed them have found them­selV>-'S on the wrong side.

Now. I should just like to sav one or two words ·again in reference to the" war. Before I do so-somebody speaking during the present discussion divided mankind into two

[Mr. Winstanley.

branches, that of workers and parasites. I am not too much in love with that distinc­tion. Some other individual has divided them into three parts-workers, beggar?, and thieve-s. I think myself that that IS a much better division of mankind. In dealing with workers I should just like to say that mv definition of workers is a fairly wide one. 'I think that every man who cor;r­tributes to the welfare and wellbeing _of h!s fellowmen, whether with hands or br~ms, IS a worker; and for that 1:eason, outs1cl~ the definition of workers wh;ch I have g1ven, there are only these other two classes­beggars and thieves. \Vhen members on the other side get up and say that . w~ are only representing one class. I say 1 t 1s a class that embraces quite 90 per cent. of. the con_r­munitv and those who are outside of It certaii':tiv are not entitled to ver;c much of the consideration that we are giving here at the present time.

Hon. E. H. MAC\.RTKEY: Is this a r>ew form of policy?

:\1r. WI:-;-;,>TAXLEY: The hon. gentleman ought t,> interject so that people can hear, and then there might be a reply. I don't know whether his opinion c?incicles. '-• Ith mine, but I think that that 1s a fan "nd reasonable definition of " worker." I. Jl:St want to say that if there is one part~ erther inside or outside this House that IS dass conscious. that has always displayed class­conscious bias. it is the party represented opposite; for the simp1e reason that ~ve;:­since representative Government cam~ llltn being, that particular . clas~ have legrs_lated for themselves and theu fnencls, pract1cally to the utter disregard of the friends of ony­boclv outside themselves. and it seems to them incr.edible that any other party should come into exist.-·nce. and particularly into power, that legislates for the whole of the pe,)p\e. AE their legislation has been biased. and h~s been in the dir1dion of helping them­sclHs and helping their friends, and the worker. as a worker, has been regarded much in the same wa~ as the old slaveholder rt>garclecl his slaves-he has been a. mere incident to produce wealth. not for h1mself, but to a very large extent foy them. (Hear, hear !i For that reason I thmk the country wanted a change. ThE'y a re t~e class­conscious people, and they practiS{~ class­consciousness in spite of all that nug-ht be said to the contrary. \Vh<''l we become more enlig-htened it might he possible to sort on~ the different classes and to see that those "·ho beg and are able to work will he made to work. and that those who beg bi"anse they ca1inot work. probably will get better treat­ment than they are f(etting at the present time. I should just like> to sav further. that th" war is responsible for ''ery strange revelation,. and for revolutions. and I ttm ircclinecl to think that before it is over there will be more revolutions than there have be0n at the present time. I should like to express the hope that there will be further re\'olutions. I think history will beu me out that some of the greatest revolutions which have taken place in the past l,;tve taken place without the. shedding of ]Jloocl at all and I am satisfied m mv own mmd tk1t th~re will be some changes which may be accounted as revolutions before this war is completed, or soon . a.f~er it is finis~ecl, in practically every c1v1hsed country m th.e world-certainly in every country tha~ IS engaged in the war at the present trme. There can be no question that some of the

Address in Reply. [24 JULY.] Address in Rfply. 329

:revelations which have taken place in connec­·tion with this war have been the revelations of ·self-'denial and self·sacrifice that people were 1orepared to make in the interests of their -country and in the interests of freedom and ·iiberty. I have no hesitation in saying that when it all comes to be summed up it will be found that the workers-the rank and <£le-in spite of all that may be said to the •contrary, are the people who have made the most sacrifices and paid the biggest penalty; and they are the people who in the future, 'Under existing conditions, will have to bear -the brunt of the burden. About that there is no doubt. There is only one source from -which wealth can come, an l that is from the land. It does not matter who in the first :instance pays the money-that is. where it <Com,•s from in the last analysis as the •product of labour. I certainly think that -the people of all the allied countries, .at any rate, deserve credit and deserve Dur commendation for the self-sacrifice that -has been made and for the self-denial which .they have b.•en prepared to undergo-which .they have practised and which they are ~~.ill putting up with in order that they may have .that freedom and that liberty which they .have enjoyed in the past. The member for Albert the other night tried to convev the idea that the Frenchmen fought be'cause thev held freehold titles to their land. If there was no one engaged in the pre,ent war except those who are tied to their land and those who held the freehold titie, there would be very few. In the majority of instances they lrave neither freehold nor perpetual lease, .nor any other claim to the land or anything <J!se; and_ in the great majorit:;- of instanc,os, .as was pomtecl out. very few had assets worth .£20. The majorit0 of the workers who are fighting in this war have received wages which, for the work theY have done havB 'been so poor and meagre 'that there h~s 1-,een no opportunity whatever of saving anything; .and the consequence is that these people are fighting for freedom and for liberty and for better condition' rather than for t'heir free­-hold title. Amongst other people who 6.re not going to be satisfied in the future as -they haYe been in the past are those who are doing t!1e fighting. I am satisfied it x;ould be no Ion~er popular to sing .Kipling's ditty- ~

"A shillinJ:i a dav is blooming good pay, And right glad to get it-a shilling a

day."

1,y,. fine: the British soldier beginning to ask lww it iB thr_ Australian c;_~n get five tin1es as ll1t!.'h pay as he gets. I have no doubt ·th,tt those who on!; get ld. or 2d. will begin to a'3k the same question. For that reason I am c"Jnfident that quite a number d people in all those countries who put up -with hard conditiom, and who have perhap> <:lone too little grumbling, too little growl­in!r. and haYe sho·m too little discontent. will no longm· be satisfied with their share ·of the good things that are pro·duced after this war ie oYer. I'\ow. on the other hand. 5ome reYelatiom hav0 be0n made wh'ch an a bit di~quietiGg. and ~hovv that. while .:::olr:" of the beet features of human nature ha ,. bern brought to the surfac>e, alsn so1ne of the 1.vor~t featurP~ cf hun1an nature have been brought to the surface; and somn people who belong to th'~' da,s represented b,- the hon. gentleman sitting· opposite h.1ve 1'hown up in an exceptionallv bad light indeed. (Government "Hear, hears!") 'There is no question about it. Anybody

who reads the papers-J·ou don't need to go any further than the daily paper-will see that, in spite of the fact of Gr~at B~itain and her allies being at deathgrrps w1th a very strong and a very powerful foe, there are people who have no hesitation in trying t;} make monE'y and amass wealth out of the vorv food,·tuffs of the people themselves. It certainly is one of the most disquieting and one of the most discouraging features at the present time-that these people, who are nearer the war centre than we are, and who know more about it, and who must be affected to a much greater extent than we can possibly imagirw. -are prepared to gamblG i 1 the foodstqffs of the people and are try­ing to amass wealth at the expense of the pdople who are laying qown their li\:es for th,cir countrv. The food controller 111 the old country told them plainly and distinctly without mincing matters that they were noth­ing more nor less than blackmailers; and when he said that, there cannot be much doubt about it. And in the British House of Commons quite re-cently he gave an !n· stance, amongst other things. where a ship· load of focdstuffs had been bought at a certain price, and before it could be .landed in England it had been speculated m and respeculated in until it was three times its original price. 'When he was asked why he did not interfere, he baid he did interfere, and l,e went to the original owner who was importing that stqff at thi:; price .and toJ.d him he would take posoescwn of rt at the original price. He pointed out what a diffi­cult task it was for him to get the informa­tion and be in a position to find out all that had taken place in this direction. When one reads of things like that, there can be no question about the truth of the stah•ment that there are men who are prepare-d to take an advantage like this of the needs and the !WN•ssities of the people in a COUntry like England at the present time. One doe_s not wonder that he called them blackmarlers; and certainlv it was a verv mild nam For pc~ople of th'at description. · Is it not a fact that some men occupying the• most prominent positions in the British Government .at the p; psc•nt 'ime have laid thf' foundations of their fortunes by similar methods during the Indian Mutinv and the Crinwan \Var? Some of their fathers lai cl the foundations of their fortunes at that time. and thE'y have ht;en nbl~-- to build on tht)IE up to the pr'-~­sent time. It seems to me that it is not fair O" rPa ·enable for the ;;tatPmems to bn nPde v.;hich h·1ye bu•n ln3:de with refere;1ce to the: ,- Nln•r'3, and then to find cut that this kind of thin,; i< takin~· place practicallv whole­RaiL• in collnection vdth the foodstuffs of the people.

I want to ~av a word or two in reference k the statements which have been ma·de ,, bout democracies not being able to conduet w..tr. Anothc·r of the lf'vdations that have b~;Pn 1nadn in the present "\Yar is that war canno• be conducted on individualistic lines, as advocatPd by hon. members opposite. If there is onE' thing which has been proved conclusivelv. it is the fact that the Govern­ment have found it necessary in England, which is the most individualistic ccmntr:- in the world. to take over the' control of a great marly things thev had never thought of touching previously. The admiralty immediate!'\' commandeered 78 per ce·c" of the Rhips. ·The Government also took charge of the railw.J.ys, and instead of depending

Mr. W instanley. J

330 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

upon private individuals for their munitions they e'tablished their own munition shops and workshops all over the country, so that some of the things which it had been said were utter impossibilities became possibili­ties in very quick time when the circum­stances and necessities made them so. ·

The SECRETARY FOR P~BLIC L;_::ms: More than pos,ibilities.

Mr. WlKSTANLEY: Yes, it became an accomplished fact, and I am certain that these things will never be allowed to go back into individualistic hands and be con­trolled by individuftls as they have been in the past. Hon. members opposite formerly prophesied about what was likely to take place, but their prophecies have been entirely unfulfilled.

I want to say a ;vord or two in reference to some statements made by the leader of the Farmers' party, the hon. member for Albert, who, I am 1•orry, is not in his pLtce. When he came to the Chamber, in his first speech on the Address in Reply, he said he was a State socialist, and he repeated that on more than one c ·ccasion afterwards. \V e learned the other night, when he defined what his State socialism consisted of, that he is a socialist who believes in the Govern­ment helping the individual. There may be some instances ,;·here that is very desirable. but it is cortainly a very poor sample of State socialism if it does not go further than helping the individnal. The soc-ialism we believe in, and are trying to bring about, is socialism of a very different character and a very superior stamp to that. The hon. member for Albert also stated that when he was Home Secretary there was no criti­cism of the dercartment over which he pre­sided. (Government laughter.) That is hardly borne ant by facts. I do not think that anyone who has had anything to do with the hon. gentleman >vould question his want of sympathy or want of heart, or his desire to do all that he possibly could to help those who needed it. (Hear, hear!) But he was not able on other occasions to do what he would have liked to do, and some of those who sat with him did not c-ee eye to eye with him on those occasions. There can be no question, however, that some of the institutions under the Home Department were open to crit,icism, and received it, and the best evidenc-e that the criticism was .i ustified was that some of the matters complained of were remedied. I remember soon after I came into this House a report bein~ made on the lazaret in the bay, to the effect that the food given to the inmates was carted in the same vehicle with the dead bodies which were carted to the cemetery. A magistrate was sent down to investigate the report. That was a matter which wanted 'remedying, and it was reme· died. Quite a number of institutions were in a similar condition. Another institutinn which was critici~ed was the Westbrook Reformatory, because it was pointed out in one of the rq1orts that there was not suffi­cient water at the institution for the bovs to ?ave a bath. I say that any reformatory which cannot afford to give the boys a bath is open to criticism, and is lacking in essen­tial qualifications. It is quite evident that the condition I refer to had not been reme· died when the present Home Secretary went up and made some ra-dical chang-es. Quite a number of the other institutwns which

[Jlfr. Winstanley.

the hon. member for Albert presided over did not get the attention which they shouid·~ have had. It may have been due to the­fact that as the hon. genleman said, his chief tre~ted the rest of the Cabinet like office boys, which led him eve'?-tually to· tender his resignation. I c·an qmte under­stand that an hon. m-,mber in that position, who was desirous of doing the very best le­could in the interest of those concerned, mu-;t. have felt it irksome to have to remain in a position like that. The State Children De­partment was also critic!sed f_rom time to­time pretty severely, whiCh will be under­stood when it is remembered that the maxi­mum paid to a natural mother with five or six children or more was 18s. per week. An hon. Minister, then sitting OJl this. side, who was in charge of the State Children Bill, said that the money allowed was ample· to bring up the children. The foster-mother always seemed to get, better treatment than­the natural mother from the previous Go­vernment. There can be no doubt that there was not onlv room for criticism, but as soon as the oppo~·tunity prc-'·ented itself a chil;nge was made and much bettf'r tr<•atment given to these people. I certain!:: think _that. an improvement has been made m this duec­tion. I am of opinion that money spent on children. whether State children or those living with their parents, is one of the. ~est investments \Ve can n1ake. When cntrc1sm was offered last vear, it w ts pointed out that, above all other places, savings could he effected in connection with- the State Chil­dren Department aud the Edmation Depart­ment, and it was said that £40,000 or £50,00(!· could be saved. I would pevonally sooner face a deficit than let these children be crippled or practically starved for the want. of a few pounds. The money spent on them· is a sound investment, which will give a good return in years to come.

Some hon. members opposite have talked about the "stinking-fish'' party, but if there ever wa- a "Btinking-fish" party,'' it _is the­party sitting opposite at the present time.

GovERNMENT ME1!BERS : Hear, hear !

Mr. WIKSTANLEY: The hon. member for Drayton talked about the man who cai_t­not get enough for Ins produce to )teep h!s familv. Another hon. member says tnat frmt cannot be grown at a profit for export, ":nd' another that it is not worth while growmg wheat because nothing can be got for it. If the samples which the hon. merr:ber for· Drayton submitted here were anythmg l;ke, fair samples, it would mean that nothmg could be produced in the country, but every­one knows that they are not fair samplPs .. He makes extreme statements about them, and everybody knows that if they were true1 production would cease and Queenslana would become a wilderness again and be· given over to the blacks. I guarantee that. in the hon. member's €lectorate, where these things are taking place, land is worth from £20 to £30 an acre, and where land is­worth that much there is certainly something to be got from it. as otherwise the people· would not pay that price for it.

If the State butchers' shops could h<tve· been sneered out of existence they would have been out of existence long ago. Hon. members oppoc-ite have sneered and scoffed· because State butchers' shops have been· established in various centres, but it has;

Address in Reply. [24 JULY,] Address in Reply. 33!!

not been a matter of sneering or scoffing for those people who have been benefited by the establi;;hment of these shops. I hope the time is not far distant when every town of any size in the State will have its own State butchers' shop whue the people will be able to get a good supply of meat at a price much less than that at present charged by private shops. I hope one of the places that will get a State butchers' shop in the near future is Charters Towers. As an example of what takes place under private enterprise I would point out that Charters Towers is practically the middle of a cattle-producing country. I will guarantee that more cattle are raised on the goldfield reserve, for which not a bob is paid in rent, than are needed to keep Charters Towers in meat, yet that is one of the dearest plaGes for meat in the State, for the simple reason that two people have a monopoly in that town. T'hev own fifteen or sixteen butchers' shops altogether, but they will not rent one or sell one to anyone else. and consequently the people are being fleeced in the 'ame way that they are being fleeced in other places by monopolies. I am satisfied that what is wanted is a St<tte butchers' shop in quite a number of these plac<>s in ord<>r to let these prople see that thev cannot have all their own wav and cannot do just as they please in this" direc­tion.

I am glad to find too that the Insurance Act which has now had a twelve-months run has shown the amount of money that was being fleecPd from private individuals or y;ractically from the workers of this country. It was said, I think by the hon. member for Dalby, that the Insuro.nce Commissioner had to go round touting for fire insurance. I do not think that is true. It seems to me that he is in a position tu pick and choose and I know in some instances he has refused' busi­ness. The hon. member for Burke said that at Croydon cottages costing £1.000 to build could be bought to-~ay for £100. I am glad to say that is not the case at Charters Towers. People there who 'have houses for oale can get the full amount that they cost ten or tweh·e years ago. Owing to the high pric,, of iron and timber, as well as the increased cost of labour and other things, the people who have cottages for sale can g_et practically th<>ir fnll value at the present time. I know cottages that have been sold and hotels "" well that have fetched their full cost. There are no emptv houses at qharters '.row<>rs at present, 1;or is there hkely to be any for some time to come. The Insurance Commissioner seems to be under the impression that the risk in mining towns woul·d he too great as the houses are likelv to be burned down. It is not a thing to be speculated upon, but there has not been a big fire in Charters Towers for the last thirty years. and it is admitted bv insurance men that Charters Towers has b"een one of the most profitable towns in the State for investment in that <lirection. I hope the Commissioner will get a better knowledge of the place than he has at present and that he will be prepared to take the risk so as to i'ive the people there the benefits they get m other townc. In reference to thL' Industrial Diseases Act. we were previously told by all Governments that it was an utter impossibility to de'il with these cases; that it was entirely out of the realm of practical politics to deal with people suffering any-

thing in the shape of industrial diseases, that. they could not trace the source from which. they came nor could they allot the liability. Yet, notwithstanding these statements, it ha~­been accomplished and these people are now gf"tting the benefit of this class of insurance, and the Government are certainly to be cam­mended upon the attitude they adopted and' for the methods they have pursued in this. connection. This legislation was first intro­duced in South Africa and they amended their Act there quite recently. A young· fellow particularly interested in politics, who. has gone to the front, wrote to me from. England and stated that when he was in Capetown he went to the Legislative· Asoembly there and they were discuSBing an amendment of that particular Act. There· W<>re evidently in that Parliament, the sams· as in all Parliaments, men who were strongly opposed to legislation of that character. They took a division on the amendment while he was there, and they carried the amendment by a substantial majority, mak­ing the Act much wider in its scope. I think. the Government is to be commended on what, it has done in this regard.

:Mention is made in the Gm·ernor's Speech. to the question of establishing iron and steel. industries, and the leader of the Opposition tell• us that this is going to run into millions. It is quibJ probable that if you make it embracing enough it may be made, to run into millions. His argument is that because we cannot do everything then we must not do anything. \Ve must simply let the thing stay where it is, and allow some private individual to come along by and by and profit by !he natural resources of wealth which exist in this country at the present time. I am confident that coal and iron and lime are amongst the things on which· any indu,strial foundation must be laid, and' the Government are doing an exceptionally wise thing in taking 'teps to ascertain what the resources in thi:; direction in Queensland, are. and if it can be found that they are· within •'MV disbnce of each other and that the carriage is not too expensiYe in order to get fuel to thP iron ore and flux to them both, even if it is only on a small scale, it ·would be a wise policy to establish an iron industry. Afterwards if it can be proved· profitable the State should not onlv manu­facture pig iron but manufacture "wrought iron as well, and eventually go in for the, manufacture of steel, and I am satisfied the· Government will do its utmost to see what~ can be accumplished in this direction.

Mining does, not occupy a very conspicuous· place in the Governor's Speech, but evidently something is going to be clone in connection· with mining on private propertv. The Go­vcrnnwnt has given considerabfe assistance, to mining since it came into power, certainly a good deal more than was ever triven before· and in a way tha.t has helped very consider­ably to enable those employed in the in­dustrv to make a verv much better show than "they otherwise co;_,ld. I clo not know· what direction the Mining on Private Pro­perty Bill is going to take, but I certainly think that some of those large areas that at the present time are held under a. freehold' tenure in various parts of the country should' bP dealt with. Those areas were got on condition that the holders spent 10s. an acre· in machinery. They clid that and got the­freehold title and then carted the machinerJ7

Mr. W instanleg.]

::332 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

. away. Those individuals shouJ.d be asked to . .<:Jo something towa.rds developing those areas ·<Jr somebodv else should be allowed to do so. -I know quite a number of instances where :people who did not know the freeholds were

in existence who went on to the [8 p.m.] ground and prospected there

and spent considerable time and monev. Immediately they found anything

·.that was worth while they were politely told that they were on private property and to get away as quickly a.s they could. In that ·way someone else appropriated the result • <Jf their labour and their enterprise. I cer· tainly think that something should be done in this direction. Charters Towers, like most

·other mining centres, is suffering as a. de­·elining mining field, but like a number of other fields there is ample opportunity for

.a fairly large number of men to be kept in ·work if only steps are taken to a.llow these men to go to work there. Some people,

"·however, desire, a.s far as lay in their power, ·;to shut the place up altogether. The Govern­ment should ascertain what ground there is

·.still that can be worked on tribute and whe­ther there are any persons who are prepared ·to take their chance in working tha.t ground. I think that the Government are doing a wise thing in reintroducing the Initiative ·and Referendum Bill. I am surprised that •mch strong opposition has been shown at the reintroduction of this measure. Hon. mem·

':hers opposite evidently believe in a referen-·dum for one particular thing only. If the Teferendum is a good thing for 6 o'clock closing it is a good thing for quite a number of other matters. If a number of people wa.nt to take a referPndum on any other subject beside" 6 o'clock closing they should

'.be given the opportunity to do so.

Mr. VowLEs: \Ve don't want to shelve our ·.responsibilities.

Mr. WINSTA~LEY: I do not know what :your responsibilities are.

Mr. Vo'IVLES: Why didn't you pass the 'Bill introduced by the Legislative Council?

Mr. WINSTANLEY: I was just pointing . out that a number of people want a ref0ren· dum on other subjects besides 6 o'clock

·dosing and they should be given the oppor· tunitv to have those referenda.. The Bill the

'hon. ·gentleman refers to was introduced as a private Bill, and no Government worthy the na.me of a Government would allow any bodv of men to force the Government to acc~pt a private Bill of that description.

'There are members on this side who are just ac anxious and just as desirous of giving ·the people an opportunity of expressing their ·views on the question of 6 o'clock closing as there are on the other side. There are a.lso members on this side who arc just as firm

·.believers in early closing as hon. member;~ ·opposite. but they a.re not going to be used by gentlemen elsewhE're. Then• are a mnn­

'·her of other things that I would have liked ·to have spoken about. but as I will have an ·Opportunity of speaking again on the Finan­. cial Statement I will defer my remarks until ·then. (Hear, hear!}

Mr. BARNES (TT"an,·ick): The Speech of His Excellencv the Governor conta.ining some

·thirty-five or· forty clauses, no matter what ·cstandpoint it is viewed from, may be said to lhe discounted by either one side of the House <lr other from beginning to end. I am sure

[Mr. Winstanley.

tbat it does not commend itself to hon . gentlemen on the opposite side, ";nd I. "'1!1 sure there are many matters contamed m 1t with which they are not in accord.

Mr. FoLEY: Are you going to deal with every clause in the Speech?

Mr. BARNES: No. I am going to clea,l with the fundamental clauses of the Speech.

Mr. FOLEY: Deal with the wheat question and the wheat pool.

Mr. BARNES; I will deal with that ques­tion second and I will deal with the hon . gentleman and others who make similar pro­fessions to him in between. The Speech cannot be said to have a.ny face value at all. In one direction it has no value at all. I think it is about the most worthle's document of the kind that has ever been presented to this Chamber. What is acceptable to one side of the House is certainly not acceptable to tbe other. \Vhen the Spe8ch is probed from beginning to end it will be seen th!'t hon. member, opposite do not a.g;·ee :VIth the Speech in its entiret,·. I can 1magme what a wild and full discussion took place amongst hon. members opposite with regard to many clauses in His Excellency's Speech. I am quite certain that in certain important par­ticulars the Speech does not meet the vtews or the approval of ma.ny mem.bcrs on the opposite side. The Speech IS worthless to mE'mbers on this side and to the State generally, because we repr!'sent the primary producer to an extent whwh. hor;. members opposite do not, and I mamtam. that as ragards its pl'Ofessions and its des1re t'? d.o something for the primary producer tt IS

nothing short of absolute sham. Mr. COLLINS: You ought to be an authority

on that. You ought to be a.n authority on hypocrisy.

·Mr. BARNES: I may be as big an autho· rity on that as the hon. gentleman who interjects is on questwns of a rather trcasOI_l· able kind. (Government dissent.} It IS

worthless in that all it outlines are 1de rls that will work further mischief; indeed, I do not know that if carried out, they will not bring ruin upon ruin upon this State of Queensland.

Mr. i:)}!ITH: Lamentation! i\h. DARJ\;ES: And there is room for

lamentation all along the line. It is also wOl'thle's in that there is no evidence that the Government in any way grip the serious pc "ition of matters as they exist to-day. All these things are very easily proved. A~out six clauses of the Speech have been gn·en over to that most worthy of subjects-the war-to the wldiers. and the providing for the soldiers, and to words of sympathy with the berPaved. It deals in a graphic way­in a wav \vhich everY 1nan in this House should approve of-with the noble work done by the boys of our own land-;-their achieve· ments, their valour, and the1r worth.

Mr. FoLEY: Do you object to that?

Mr. BARXES: :'fo, I heartily approve; but I am going to tell hon. members oppo­site that thev do not approye in every par· ticular. Th,;:t is the part of the Speech in which they do not agree.

Mr. H. L. HARTLEY : How do you know the opinions of all members on this side?

Mr. BARNES: By their words and their works. The part the soJ.dier has played must

Address in Reply, (24 JULY.] Add-ress in Reply. 333'.

meet with the approval of every member on this side of the House, and probably it does meE't with the approval of members c,ppo­site in some {1irections; but still, I n1aintain that there are words in the flpeech to which many members opposite ·do not respond. Looking into the Speech in the direction I am ne w alluding to, there is much in it the same as was in the Speech last year. It breathn the same patriotic air; it deals with the question in a broad and graphic and sympathetic way. and in that respect the Speech is very similar to that of la •. t year. It says-

" Queen·,]and has been second to none of her sister Statt·s in the providing of men and requisites, and will not lessen her efforts and sacrifices until victorv for the common cause has been achieve-d."

Mr. FOLEY: You do not object to that? Mr. BARNES: ::'\o, I am praising the

Speech. It meets with my heartiest· ap­proval, and the heartiest approva-l of this side of the House in this particular connec­tioH, as did the Speec-h last year; but what I am goinl;' to say is that, in the speeches delivered by hon. members on the other side of the House, no real sympathy is shown to such a cause as that.

At 8.15 p.m., Mr. BERTRHf relieved the Speaker in the

chair. Mr. BARNES: The Speech goes on-

" It would ill become me to let this occa;;ion pass without expressing the pro­found appreciation of my advisers and myself of the valour and capacity shown by our Queemland soldiers on the battle­field. The extent to which thev havc­<mlistP·d, at the Empire's call to face the unexamplC<d perils and ha;dships of prP>ent-Bay warfare is in the hi rrhest degn 'e creditable. As to the mann~r in which they have acquitted themselves, it JS enough to sav that they have made themselves consp!cuous for skill and dar­ing among the millions of brave men, who, for the sake of all that makes human life worth living, are battling against the mightiest enemy the free peoples of the world have ever encoun­tered."

(Hear, hear !) I think we might well say " Hear, hear ! " ; but I sav that in th~ speeches delivered in this Ch'amber absolute and actual antagonism to the cause which is being waged at the present time has been shown. Will hon. members tell me if the speech of the hon. member for Bowcn the other night is going to help to win the war?

Mr. COLL!NS: The hon. member believe' in actione, not words, words, words.

Mr. KIRWAN: Not cant. Mr. BARNES: Can hon. members tell me

if the speech of the hon. member for Bris­bane-certainly, it was very much milder than that of the hon. member for Bowen­is going to help? In my calculations, I should not say that that speech was likely tc aid in any direction whatever in getting recruits at the present time or in strengthen­ing the cause of the Empire.

Mr. CARTER: You are busy making war profits. The poor farmer is being bled by you.

Mr. BARNES: The poor farmers would de very ill without such people as myself

JUSt now. Let the hon. member compare notes sith the hon. member for 1\faranoa. I would like to know what he thinks.

Mr. CARTER: You were against the wheat pool.

:Mr. BARNES: \Vith the patriotic senti­ments in the Speech, this side is in full sympathy, but we are waiting for the speec-hes of hon. members opposite to shov•· that the ring of the Speech is the ring of' their individual hearts; but there is a dis­tinct and decid,,d absence of true sympathy with the Empire with which we have to -do, and with the wonderful cause for which, our bo: ' arc fighting. That is what I take· exception to, and it is quite evident that in that particular direction hon. members oppo· site do not subscribe to the words of the· Speneh, and to that extent the Speech is­worthle:·•s to them. The speeches delivered! b2 hon. members opposite on the patriotic· side of matters are a long way short of the high standard which is set by the Speech· itself, and I -av it is to the everlasting -dis­grace of this House-and this is a point I wish to make; I was very nearly forgetting· it-that this House should have fallen so low that a speech like that delivered by the hon. member for Bowen should be such­as to induee hon. members to ask for an extension of time. (Interruption.) ·

J\Ir. COLLIJ'\S: I ri:<e to a point of order. Is the hon. member in order in referring· to my mee,,h as being a low kind of speech 't

Tlw DEPUTY SPEAKER: If the hon .. member used that term he must withdraw.

Mr. BARNES : I do not think I put it in that way, but if I did. I withdraw it. :r believe the hon. member is a well inten­tionHl man, but I believe that in this par-­ticular direction his views are not of a<. sane nature, and it is to be regretted that: the feeling in this House-if it was the feel­ing of the House-that the feeling of mem­bers on the oppo•.ite side should have been disclosed by asking for an extension for a;. deliverance mch as should not have been made in this House by any man after taking: the oath of alieg;iance.

Mr. KIRWAN : His onlv son in France to­night under the soil, and "you insult the man !•

Mr. BARNES: I regret that, but I hav<o no sympathy for utterances which are going­to sacrifice the verv bov the hon. member­refers to. (Cries "of ''Apologise.") The­only thing that counts, judging by the­speeches made, in the estimation of hon. members opposite is party triumph .. (Laughter.)

Mr. SJ\IITH : If you had been successful at: Man-borough, it would have counted for a;. great deal, wouldn't it?

Mr. BARNES: There have been some>· loyal and true men on the other side, but. we know what happened to John Adamson.

1\lr. Kmw AN : We know how he was' scrapped by the Nationalist party.

Mr. BARXES: \Ye know how he was kicked out by the party opposite, because 1.& was loyal and true, and it is not fair for· them to make the slightest reference to the' treatment he may have received from '1ny other individual or any other portion of the community. He was treated verv badlv bv those who were expected to stand by ·hi~. The Secretary for Public Instruction last

Mr. Barnes.]

::334 Address in Reply. [ASSBMBLY.] Address in Reply.

session indicated that all this country <Lnd this House were waiting for was the lead of Mr. Hughes, and, that when Mr. Hughes gave that lead, they would all follow. Mr. Hughec, gave a lead, but the mailed fist of the caucus was raised in the meantime and the Secretary for Public Instruction' a11d those who were sympathetically disposed towards John Adamson were flattened to the Barth, and we have never heard anything from them since in connection with mattars

·Of this kind.

Mr. H. L. HARTLEY: And the Nation~tlists ·threw him on the politiGal scrap heap.

Mr. BARXES : The Speech gives first ·place to the worthy subject of the soldiers .and the Empire, and then it gives second ;place to the man on the land. It says-

" It needs no very close scrutiny of 1he events of the war to realise that the food-producer, as a factor in it, is hardly second to the soldier. That being the case, patriotism, no less than s<e!f­interest, makes it incumbent on us ta -encourage by every means in our power the man on the land. It is the object of my advisers to ePsure him the best possible return for his labours· and with that end in view, they propos~ estab: 1ishing cold stores and local markets for the sa le and distribution of his produce as. we} I as .sett!ng up. the machinery f c.,: brmgmg him mto direct r,l)lations with the consumer abroad."

'What arrant nonsense ! The sentiment is .admirable, but what is wrong with it is that ·the Government have not done what they ccSay they a re going to do.

Mr. FOLEY: The trouble is that vou won't b'" able to buy their wheat any ionger.

~h. BARXES: The Speech refers to th,, pnmary producers, but what have th•' Government done for the men who produce sugar. wheat, cheese, and butter? Ha .·e thh· not shown by their actions that they are enhrely oppo>ed to the success of the man on. the land? Hon. members opposite cannot pomt to one of our primary industries which has not been attacked bv the Government .and their supporters. '

Mr. S:I!TTH :--

Mr. BARNES: The very industry t11at the hon. member who i' interjecting repre­sen~s-the sugar industry-has not ]1een as~Isted by the Government. They have not raised a finger to interfere with the iniquitous Dickson award. We know t.hat for months and months the whole of that great industry was practically in jeopardy. The remedy was in the hands of thP Govern­ment. The Treasurer admitted down South that the award was an unreasonable one.

The TREAST:RER: I never said that.

Mr. BARNES : The men practiccdlv got more than they asked for. '

The TREASURER: D'? you say I said that?

. Mr. BAR~ES : ~he hon. gentleman prac­~1cally admitted It, because he said the mdustry could not carry on under the Dick­~on award.

The TREASURER : I said the industry could not carry on without an increased price a'1d we have secured an increased price fo~ the industry.

[Mr. Barnes.

Mr. BARNES : That is an audacious thing to say, and that is th•) kind of " tripe" that i~ spread over the country by hon. members opposite. The fact of the matter is t.hat, ~o far from the Government succecdmg m securing an increased r:rice for the industry, they succeeded in doing nothing at all. They passed the difficulty over to the Common­wealth Government, and they, fortunately, were able to pull this Government out of the mire; but for all the Government oppo­site have don~ to adjust the differences be­tween the grower and the sugar-worker, the sugar industry might be a thing of the past, and it would be a thing of the past. I question if words can be found strong enough to use regarding the attitude of the Govem­ment generally towards the primary pro­ducers. Thev tell us that the position of the primary proclucer is hardly second t? that of the soldier, but at every turn hitherto they have been trying to " down" him. When it has suited them to give a few c-rumbs to the primary producer-to the eugar producer in this instance-they have done so but it was only when it enabled them to' work out their own socialistic ideals that they were willing to do so. They are trying to do something for the sugar-grower in order that there may be perpetuated the Dickson award. which is g·oing to spread destruction right through every industrial ayenue in the commur,ity.

'The TREASURER : You are a Jeremiah.

Mr. BARNES : I am no Jeremiah; but the hon. gentleman can lament over an empty Treasury; and the sooner he wakes up and tries to fill it by some sound means, instead of the means which he has been adopting in the past, the better for this State. Re!llly, the references to the pri­mary producer in the Speech seem too funny to read. I noticed the other day that even the Premier has wakened up sudden!" and said, " The welfare of the growers is m:' concern." I wish the Government would show their con0ern in some practical way. So far they have shmm precious little con­C{rn for the sugar-grower.

Mr. S:IUTH: Do you remember what the late Treasurer said about the sugar industry?

Mr. BARNES : It is just the same with the pastoral industry. Have the Govern­ment' shown an ounce of sympathy with the raisers of sheep and cattle?

Mr. CARTER : They never got such prices for their cattle before.

Mr. BARNES: Have the Government shown any sympathy whatever for them?

Mr. LAND: They don't want any sympathy.

Mr. BARNES: Under the pretext of serv· ing the Empire they have, for party pur· poses, inflicted shameful wrong upon those who have to do with the raising of cattle.

l\llr. CARTER : Yes. because they are putting theil' brands upon the wrong cattle. (Govern­ment laughter.)

Mr. BARNES : At the cost: of tht> pro­ducer they are supplying their meat shops with cheap meat. Do you think they <>re going to slaughter their cattle for their own shops when they c•an make a bigger profit by sending their stock to other markets? They started with this idea:_ "We have

Address in Reply. [24 JULY.] Address in Reply. 335

,butchers' shops now, and we must raise cattle for sale in those shops." Yet no

[8.30 p.m.] sooner did the3• get going as cattle-raisers, or owners of stock,

than they went to the very market that they had decried and forbidden the people of the State to go to. All along the border of the State an embargo was placed upon the sending of cattle to another State, or was placed upon the export of cattle to other

.Staes for many months until the embargo was broken by the Federal law.

Mr. LAND: It should have been £5 per head.

Mr. BARNES : I hope that remark will ·,be remembered.

Mr. LAND: I said that on every platform.

Mr, BARJ'\ES : I will let you know who ·suffers in consequence of that embargo.

Mr. LAND: I know-the Queensland con­-sumer; he wa' the sufferer.

Mr. BARNES : I wrote to various agents :in Warwick in order to ascertain their views regarding the action of the Government in the past with regar-d to this matter, and one reply that I have received reads as fol­•lows:-

" In reply to vour favour of the 20th instant, we consider that the border restrictions that were imposed on cattle crossing frcm Queensland into New South Wales made a considerable differ­ence to Queensland stockowners, because the New South Wales buyers who did operate were quite prepared to pay the 10s. per bead bo;der charge, and our market was deprived of a number of <Jther buyers who would not consider Queensland cattle with the restrictiom attached to the.m. In our opinion it made a fair avorage difference of £1 10s. per head, and we would like to point <Jut that the majoritv of the cattle in which we were associated were sold principally to dealers, and they in turn resold tc New South Wales and Vic­torian graziers. Had the restrictions not been on. the graziers, in ma,ny instances, would have been operating direct and Queensland owners would have received the benefit of enhanced market values."

The audacity of the Government in tc:lling the people in cold language that their con­-cern is for the primarv producer when in order to carry out their own i-cle~ls, at' the same time trading upon the idea that they wanted meat for Imperial purposes-it is a hollow sham ! It will be remembered how we in this House and members in another place fought for the insertion of three little wmd~ in the Meat Bill. The cry set up at the time by members on the Government side of the. :f!:ouse, especially by the Premier and the M1mster for Lands, was that we on this side ~ere not willing to supply meat for ~mpenal uses. They said, "Our sole aim IS to secure for Imperial use during the war the meat of the country." Yet no sooner did the Government get into their hands the power to deal with ea ttle than they straight­~ay sent their cattle and their meat, too, mto the Yery areas that they prohibited ilto0ko":ners from sending to. How are you go:ng to sum up a profession such as is made 111 that part of the Speech which I

have quoted and reconcile it with conduct so diabolical? \Vho are the people who are suffering most?

Mr. LAND : The consumers; you were charging them 1s. per lb. for meat.

Mr. BARNES: I am trying to show how the Government who have proclaimed such wonderful sympathy for the primary pro­ducer are showing that sympathy. Such a profession is absolutely and entirely mislead­ing as far as the primary producers are concerned. The Govt>rnment have not done for the primary producers what they said they would do, and this remark applies to every class of primary producer. The Go­vernment have not served the primary pro­ducers; they have served themselves. I have asked who the people are who suffered. I suppose the reply will come that the pas­toralists are the people who suffer. If hon. members will turn to page 98 of the last annual report of the Under Secretary for Agriculture, they will find that out of 40,051 owners of cattle in the State, there are no fewer than 39,380 who own 1, 781,293 cattle, and that the number of cattle held by them varies from 1 to 1,000. The people that the Goverument are hitting by the embargo placed on cattle going over the border and by their action generall-y are not on the whole the big men, but the 39.380 small men I have referred to-the small dairymen of the land, the small selectors, ·the men who live up and down the coast and on the Downs. These are the men the Government interfered with. These are the men who have suffered at the hands of the Govern­ment-the small men the Government say they want to serve, the small men that the Government are w deeply concerned about. These are the men who .are suffering through being prevented going to the markets which were available to them. The Speech further says-

" 'rhe cereal harvest was good in quantity, bnt, owing to heavy rains at the time of ripening, not generally in quality. Growers have been hampered in tbe marketing by the conditions of the Federal wheat pool, which, while not preventing Southern wheat from entering this State, debars the entry of Queens­land wheat into any other State without the permission of that State."

'I'ha t is a very true report. I do not know that it was noticed by the Premier when he made his speech the other evening, but the contradiction and refutation of his remarks are to be found in his own speech. That is an absolutely fair and true statement of the conditions that have obtained in connection with the wheat market in Queensland. Yet the hon. gentle!llan, the other evening, argued that members on this side were responsible for the condition of things obtaining in Queensland in regard to wheat, and charged them with not having aided in forming a wheat pool.

Mr. CARTER: You persuaded them not to.

Mr. BARNES: No persuasion took place on my part. I followed out the ideas of my own people and responded to their call. What have the growers of wheat to say re­gar-ding the Government who are professing so much sympathy for them and telling them that they stand next to the soldiers in the Government's concern? I have a letter in

Mr. Barnes.]

336 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

my box which shows their opinion, and that is that the GoYernment nE-glected to protE-ct them in connection with their wheat {'rop of last year.

The PRE:NIIER: Don't you think a wheat pool would have been beneficial to them 1

The PREMIER: Do you think a wheat pool would have been ben~ficial 1

Mr. BARNES: It possibly might have been, but I don't know. If you ·were asking me again to-day I would say ··Yes."

Mr. CARTER: That i·• because you have bought all you want. (Government iaughter.)

Mr. BARNES: I sav that if the Govern­ment had had the handling of wheat this Y<:'ar. they \Yould have be0n in a pretty p!Cll!C.

Hon. J. A. FIHELLY: What did you say last year?

Mr. GUNN: They would have been fighting the mice now, not us.

The PRE111ER : There is not much differ­ence. (Laughter.)

Mr. BARNES: Some hon. gentleman wantAd to know about Mr. Robcrts. The hon. gentleman's memorv, when he castigated some :nembers the other night, was not as good as 1t should ha\·e been; because he had a right to remember what took place when that de­putation waited upon him and when the representative from my own district-or the district contiguous to Warwick, by their rc,presentative-made known their view to him. I have them here, but it would take the night pretty well to go into everything. Sormone made reference just now to Mr. Roberts, and I promised to reply later on.

Mr. POLLOCK: He said you raised your eyes to heaven and kept on the same old game. (Laughter.)

l\Ir. BARNES: When Mr. Roberts took me to task in Toowoomba-

The PRE~iiER : Oh !

Mr. BARNES: Yes. I am sorry that the hon. member for Normanby is not here. He might have done me the justice to read the whole of what took place.

The PREMIER : ~o you drmy what he read 1

Mr. BARNES: No. (Government laugh­ter.) I do not deny what he read-but the point I take is that when a man commencE's to re:1.d, he should read the whole matter and not portion of it. A farmer came to m~ one day and said, " Mr. Barnes, have you seen the Toowoomba paper?" I said "No." He said, "You should see it." I did. I then wrote on February 28th to Mr. Roberts. I quote this b.c,cause it shows what Mr. Peter­son left out.

Hon. J. A. FIHELLY: Oecil was very harsh.

Mr. BARNES : This is a letter dated February 28th and addressed-

" J. H. Cecil Roberts, Esq., " Toowoomba.

"Dear 1\'l:r. Roberts,-

" My attention has beeR called to the Press report of the meeting of the Farmers' Union held in Toowoomba last week on the subject of the marketing of wheat and to the following statement

[Mr. Barnes.

reported to have been made by you;. Many of them had known that he felt; very strongly on the question of the­farmers standing absolutely on their o·;n; and it seemed to be a ridiculous. thing that, at t.he conference with the· Premier and the Minister for Agricul­ture, a large farming electorate like· ·warwick should be represented by a man like Mr. Barnes, who was a miller."'

GO\ ERNMENT MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Mr. BARNES-" It seemed to him (th~ speaker) that·

it was absurd for the farmers to place their future destiny in a pc•sition like­that."

GovERNMENT ME;:.!BERS: Hear, hear!

Mr. BARNES-" Now this is a reflection upon me, n<>

matter what application you intended it to have. \Vhat grounds had you for dis­counting and ridiculing the fidelity of my service, and why should you take the farmers to task for deciding as they did, and for having such a reprecentative as­onyself? I doubt very much if the­farmers of \V arwick and district appre­ciate the a·spersion you ca.""t upon their­judgment. Without the dictation of any other man or anY other district, the farmers know their 'business. The farmers. of \V arwick according to your own re­marks utter~d a few minutes earlier in your speech, held opposit" views to those­held by the farmers at the Toowoomba end of the Downs;-

The PRE"-1IER: This is a family quancl.

:Mr. BARNES-" for you are rep,)rted to have said! there was no unanimity among the· farmers from this end of the Downs and the farmers from the \V arwick end. The position was that while many of the­farmer" at this end were in favour of a State wheat pool, the farmers from the­southern end of the Downs-that was. from Warwick-were strongly opposed to the formation of a State pool. or a pool, for that matter, in any shape or form; preferring to have what they call an open market to exist. _Having_ this ]~now­ledge, was it not unfair and mconsiStent to reflect upon me and upon the farmers. of Warwick as you did. I acted in accord with the decision arrived at by the Warwick meeting. Even :vith the experience gained since, I believe the farmers this end Df the Downs would repeat their action. We are only at the end of Febru:cry, and yet the local flour mills between them have purchased up­wards of 500.000 bushels of wheat-'-the largest quantity, I think, that has ever been purchased and stored by the loca:t mills by February 28th; and this, not­withstanding the fact that the grain this year is more than ordinarily difficult to· deal with in large quantities on account of unevenness of quality. So far as the Warwick mills go, all available space is taken up, and consequently the deliver_y da.te of purchases now being made Js. dated ahead.

" With this explanation before you, together with your own admitted know-

Address in Reply. [24 JULY.] Address in Reply. 33'1

ledge of the decision of the Warwick farmers, I ask again if your reference to me at a public meeting was either true, fair, or just. For myself, I stand for the people I represent. If it trans­pires that \Va.nvick farmers, as a whole, have come off better as compared with farmers of other districts in the quantity of wheat marketed, is not the charge you make about the absurd action of the farmers, and your reflection upon me, disproved? I shall be glad if you would say in what way my representation of the \V arwick farmers has been inimical to their interests and future destiny."

Mr. CARTER: Those who excuse themselves always accuse.

Mr. BARKES : I am not excusing ; I am only stating facts.

The PREMIER: \Vhat was his answer to that?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER : Order ! The hon. member knows he is not in ord0r in reading personal letters. He may quote passages from a letter; but not read the whole of it.

Mr. BARNES: I admit that; but at the came time, knowing that the question was raised in this House-and raised this evening again-I felt justified in putting myself out of the way and trespassing upon the House in crder to give them the full text of what took place. This is not a matter that affects 'm individual like me only. This· is a matter which. it is said, has affected the whole of th·! wheatgrowers of the Downs; and, con­sequently, on that account, I ·felt justified in going into this matter in as thorough a way as y_ossible. I understand there is a de,>ire thai I should read this letter from Mr. Roberts, who writes-

" Yours of the 28th ultimo to hand and contents noted. I am sorry to learn thnt you have made deductions from my remarks at Toowoomba meeting of Cen­tral Downs District Council quite the opposite to the manner in which I vtiere<l them. At the conference m Brisbane on 20th November last before the business began, the Premier, Mr. Ryan, :tsked ~~adl cne 0£ t:he dt~IPgates present-' \Vhat are you representing.' To you-as far as I remember-he said, ' Are you representing the millers?' and your reply was 'No, I am representing the farmers of my electorate, Warwick.' Mr. Ryan, upon receiving this reply, im­mediately rang up Mr. Archibald. At Warwick there is a District Council of the Queensland Farmers' Union, and so f<tr as I can learn, that body was not represented at the conference in Bris­bane-although representatives from that Council attended the conference in Too­woomba. The absence of representa­tives from the South Downs District Council led me to say, ' It seemed to him (the speaker) that it was absurd for the farmers to place their future destiny in a position like that.' I was never advised as to what occurred at the War­wick meeting you refer to-and to this day do not know what resolutions were passed, etc. I indeed regret that you should think I was in any way discount­ing and ridiculing the fidelity of your

1917-Y

services to the \Varwick electorate. If you admit-as you do in your letter­that your views as to the ' wheat ques­tion ' were governed by those of the Warwick farmers, then I freelv admit you acted in accordance with their wishes. For my part, I considered the question at the time was of more or less a ' national character ' and believing such to be the case I acted and spoke on the matter from that point of view. In conclusion, Jet me say that I regret you should think that I had thought for one moment that you failed in your repre­sentation of the Warwick electorate. I only wish to get the farmers to realise the many difficulties ahead of them.

"Yours truly, " (Signed) CECIL ROBERTS."

The PREMIER: You will admit that it 1•:ould have been a good thing to have formed a pool at. that time ?

Mr. BAR="ES : When the deputation met the Premier it was understood that, as a result of the rain, the crop had fallen to less than half, and that there would only b.> about 1.500,000 bushels at the best, so that the forming of a pool, with that knew­ledge, ;eemed to be a very absurd thing. But as it now transpires the crop turned to b•e a very much bigger one than was antici­p~.ted-reaching 2,500,000 bushels-and see­ing that no embargo has been placed on wheat or flour coming in from the South, 1C would have been wise--

The PRE:UIER: We have no power to do it.

Mr. BARNES: The hon. gentleman st•.ys we have no power to do it-no power to do what they did with the imported wheat from the old country.

The PREMIER: I had charge of price-fixing then; Mr. Hughes has it now.

Mr. BAR~ES: All that the farmers of tlw Downs required the Premier to do was to carry out the very purpose that he may have had in his mind when he advised the;n to form a pool. What would there have been to prevent him carrying out his designs?

The PREMIER: What is that?

Mr. BARNES: I thought the Premier had some de@ign in his mind when he 3".id " Gentlemen, if you agree among yourselves to have a pool, I will for·m a pool." Wh~tt had the hon. gent!Pman in his mind to do for the farmer but to protect him, under these circumstances? If he was going to protect the farmer, why has he not carried out the S<tme purpose since, notwithstandiag the fact that no pool was formed?

The PREMIER : How could you carry it ou~ when there was not a pool?

Mr. BARNES: The fact of forming a pool did not limit the hon. gentleman's power to do something in one way or the other. What limited his operations was his failure to conceive that he could do some­thing for the farmer, and the impresswn gains ground that he has done absolutely nothing for the wheatgrower.

Mr. MORGAN : He was working for thu Brisbane Milling Company.

Mr. Barnes.]

338 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

Mr. BARNES: When we see whnt sym­pathy is shown to the producer, we are led to see that deep down at heart there is no sympathy.

'l'he PREMIER: Who has nrofited by the fact of the farmer having to sell his wheRt cheaper? It is not the consumer; it must be the miller.

Mr. BARNES : The hon. gentleman had better look up the clause I have quotr:.d, which speaks 0f the quality of wheat in Queensland this year. He has a very easy way of forgetting even the statements which hro makes. The farmer cannot get rid of the whole of his wheat this year, because there is no market in Queensland for it, and because the Premier allows it to come in wholesale, either in the way of flour or wheat, from the other States.

The PREMIER: ! cannot prevent it. Mr. BARNES : The Government profess

to do so much for the people, and are taking certain people to task for not doing certain things, and yet they say, in effect, " ViT e cannot do it."

The PREMIER: I do not say that. I say that I cannot prevent wheat coming horn the South; but, if I had been allowed to form a pool, the farmer would have been protected.

Mr. BARNES: Now I want to deal with another of the primary industries about whi0h the Government are showing so much con­cern. It is stated in the Speech-

" The acquirement of butter under the Control of Trade Act resulted in a con­siderable profit, which has for the m:Jst part been distributed among all those factories that manufa,ctured butter during the period of acquirement."

Are we to infer _by this statement that that profit resulted simply because the Govern­ment of the day acquired the butter? Are we to understand that i r the farmers had dealt with that butter themselYes there would have been no profit?

Mr. CARTER: The middJeman would have got the profit.

Mr. BAR:;\I'ES : Once and for all, let It be known that the middleman has no dealings, properly speaking, with the export of butter from Queensland. The matter is entirely in the hands of the co-operative societies themselves, and they sell direct. I say that this statement emanating from the Dep,Lrt­ment of Agriculture is far from the truth. It is true in the sense that an amount of money has been distributed, but it is not true in the sense that had the department not acquired the butter no profit would have resulted.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE : We do not say that. The people of Queensland vi-ould not have nad butter to eat if you had had your way.

Mr. BARNES: In answer to questions put the other day regarding the dairy industry and butter, the answer was given that some £23,000 had been distributed, and that it was at the rate of some 18s. lld. per cwt. ; in other words, the amount distributed as a bonus on this acquired butter amounts J3rac­tically to 2d. per lb. The farmer under­stands thoroughly that that represents in £ s. d. the actual loss on every pound of butter that he produced during that

[Mr. Barne8.

period. If the hon. gentleman had noi; stepped in by acquiring and fixing the price, the price of butter would have been fixed at export rate, and that would have been the value.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE : How much a pound would that have been?

Mr. BARNES : Twopence per pound. It is for every farmer in the land to understand that the Government, which to-day turns round and professes such consideration for him, during the period when they acquired butter commandeered it at 2d. per lb. under

its value. No one disputes that and [9 p.m.] we must bear in mind that under

a previous fixing of prices no less a sum than £147,000 was lost to the dairy producers in this country as a result of their not being allowed to deal with their own butter in their own way in an open market.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: That is simply nonsense.

Mr. BARNES: I quoted the figures last yt'·ar.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE : I know you did.

The PREJ\!IER : Vi'ho made the figures?

Mr. BARNES : I got portion of the figures from the Under Secretary for Agriculture.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRIOcLTcRE : ·where did you get the other portion?

Mr. BARNES : I got the portion as re­gards quantity from the Under Secretary for Agriculture and I got the values ruling in Melbourne from Dalgety and Co. In speaking last.year, I stated as follows:-

" I am now able to state the actual loss suffered by dairymen of Queensland from July the 7th, 1915, the date of the inception of price fixing by the Queens­land Government, to September the 8th, 1916. The loss is arrived at-

1. By ascertaining the average rul­ing price of butter during the periods named in Melbourne and Brisbane.

2. By finding out the quantities of butter produced in Queensland during the same term. "Messrs. Dalgety and Co., Ltd., have

favoured me with a statement of the values ruling for butter in Brisbane as compared with Melbourne, and the Minis­ter for Agriculture, in response to my motion, has issued a return giving the quantity of butter produced during the same period; the average difference in the prioe is £13 18s. 4d. per ton. The quantity of butter produced 10,686 tons 4 cwt. 1 qr. 15 lb., and the loss to the Queensland dairymen £148,716, lls."

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: That is simply nonsense.

The PREMIER : Did Dalgety and Co. lose anytHing throtJgh the butter being com­mandeered? They made the figures.

Mr. BARNES : Dalgety and Co. supplied the figures at my requef't. They are agents in connection with the export of butter.

The PREMIER : To Melbourne?

Mr. BARNES: I am not aware that Dalgety and Co. deal in the local market. The fact remains that the loss I have stated

Address in Reply. [24 JULY.] Adaress in Reply. 339

''has fallen upon the farmers as a result of ·the action of this Government, which is -turning round to the people now and, in glowing terms, informing them that after the needs of the soldiers thev have their first

"consideration and their first concern. The SECRETARY FOR AGRICt'LTURE: We have

some concern for the consumer of butter, too. Mr. BARNES: Yes, and a consumer of

meat alRo. When you go to feed the con­sumer of meat, when it comes to a matter .of choosing as to whether you shall supply :your own c-attle for cheap meat or not, what do you do? You sav. "No: we will get the

.rhighest price for o'ur cattle that we can. ·we will send them abroad." And you do the same thing in connection with butter.

'You have gone to the highest market to "ell :your cattle, the very thing you prohibit, by regulation, the man on the land from doing. He asks for a free hand, but you take it ·away from him. You take away his stock and do not allow him to sell it, and the man on the land is not going to be cajoled by .any statement you may make now.

I would like to say a word or two in con­nection with the stations that have been

'bought and the bad business it means to the 'State in its present impecunious position. I notice by the return tabled the other da" that the amount paid by the Governmer{t for the purchase of stations totalled £688,461: they have given debentures to the extent of £482,000. and they have found cash to the extent of £206,000. Thev have thus saddled the State with a liabilitv of nearlv £700,000. . .

The PRE~IIER: Have not they got as'ets 1or it?

Mr. BARNES: They have got assets, but you have put out of oirculation in conse­

-quence of your act no les5 a sum than £206,000.

The PREMIER: We put that into circu­·lation.

Mr. BARKES: You have taken it out o.f ·-eirculation.

The PREMIER: We have paid it out. Mr. BARNES: You have paid it out and

out of ~he country it has gone, yet the country 1s hungry for money.

The PRE~!IER: I did not say out of the .-{)ountry.

Mr. BARNES: Out of the country it has gone, and in consequence of the action of the Go,:ernment in buying stations the

·country 1s that much poorer. and in conse­. quence of that again the Government are ·unable to c-arry on public works that would give employment to a very large number of men.

The DEPT:TY SPEAKER indicated that the time allowed the hon. member bv the Stand-

. ing Orders had expired. ·

Mr. LAND (Balonne) : First of all, I would ·JikP- to congratulate the two new members on their election to this House, and also on the .spPcches they made. I am verv pleased to see that these new members are" young men. I like to see young men in this House, espe­

'·cially members of the Labour party, so th<tt we will have men to fill the places of the

c::>lder men as they ·drop out one by one. I ,notice th? Speech contains these words-

" I am confident I express the feelings of one and all of you when I offer, on

your behalf, to those among our fellow­citizens whom the war has bereaved the sincere sympathy of a gr-ateful Parlia­ment and people."

I <tm quite sure every member of this House sincerely sympathises with those who have lost relatives at the front. The Speech goes

" Arising out of the war are problems which deserve serious attention, and to which my advisers are giving the weightiest consideration. One of thcee problems is the welfare of the returned soldiers, and the steps taken by my ad­visers in regard thereto will, it is confi­dently hoped, have the most beneficial results. It is their aim to make the best possible provision for the heroes who h<tve risked all in the cause of the Em­pire and its noble institutions, lofty ideals, and glorious pos5ibilities."

My experience of the past tells me that after the war is over the soldier has always been forgotten. I can remember some of the old Crimean warriors. Some of these veterans finished their days in Australia. and many of them did not have <L shilling for years and years in the last portion of t.heir lives. My experience also tells me that the men who were rich before the war start.•d become· richer after the war is over, whiJ., those who were poor when thev went to the war come back poorer still. The fault I find with the Australian Government is that they do not p<ty their soldiers enough, and they do not look after his dependents as thev ought to do. I know that this Queensland Govern­ment intends to provide for the returned soldier. I am satisfied that so long as the Labour party are in power in Queensland the returned soldier will have no cause to com­plain.

Hon. W. D. ARl\ISTRONG: Whv? Mr. LAND: Because the Government sym­

pathise with the class of man who has gone to the front, while members opposite do not sympathise with him at all.

Hon. \V. D. ARMSTRONG: You don't do <tnything to help him when he does come back.

Mr. LA~D: Judging what was done for the soldiers in the past, I know that the returned soldier will be better looked after by the Labour party than by any other pr11•ty. Since the beginning of this war the Labour partv has shown more sympathy for the soldier 'than any other party in Aus­trali<L, and I am satisfied that the Labour partv will place the returned soldier in a position that he will not want for anything again. The able-bodied soldier will be placed in ·a position which, if he looks after himself will ensure that he will never want as !ono-' as he lives. (Hear, hear!) We ha..-e got la~d set apart for the soldiers when they return. Everv soldier returning from the front if he w'ishes to go on an agricultural farm: will have it all fitted up ready for him without any charge -at all.

Mr. BooKER : A perpetual lease is no good to a soldier.

Mr. LAND: 'rhat is all bunkum. That is the old bogey raised ag<tinst pe~petu<Llle~ts<;. If a soldier goes on to a grazmg farm. tt will mean that he will have to work for the rest of his days.

Mr. BooKER: Why don't you provide grnz< ing farms instead of 80 acres. .. r

Mr. Land~]

340 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

Mr. LAND : If a man wishes to go in for a grazing farm, he gets a lease for twenty­eight years.

Mr. BoOKER : You are making no provision at all for grazing farms for soldiers.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: You object to a lease in perpetuity, .and yet you want to bind them down for twenty-eight years.

Mr. LAND: What does the hon. member for Wide Bay care about the working man? And yet the majority of those who have gone to the front are working men! Would the hon. gentleman give preference to a working man if he applied for a grazing farm?

Mr. BoOKER : I would give the returned soLdiers grazing farms, because they are more practicable.

Mr. LAND : The hon. gentleman is bar­racking for men who have money enough to take up grazing farms. The average working man would not have money enough to take up a grazing farm, and unless the Govern­ment has sufficient money, with their repat­riation scheme, it would be impossible for them to provide grazing farms.

Mr. BOOKER : Your policy is to put a millstone round the neck of the soldier for thP rest of his life.

Mr. LAND: The hon. g<mtleman and his political friends only gave him a fiver. That W<lS not sufficient to drown him anyway. If the hon. gentleman will allow me, I will state what my repatriation scheme is.

Mr. BooKER: You are putting a millstone round the necks of the soldiers for the rest of their lives.

Mr. LAND: I have more sympathy with the returned soldier than you have.

Mr. BoOKER: You are going to make them serfs.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER : Or·der !

:Mr. LA:c\!D: I am more in sympathy with the returned soldier, and so are my col­leagues, than any member opposite.

Hon. \V. D. Am!STRONG: How do you know?

Mr. LAND: I judge by past experience. Years ago you allowed returned ··oldiers to die without giving them any assistance, and the same thing will happen on this occasion. You and your colleagues have never shown any practical sympathy with the soldiers, and you have always made them pay the highest price possible for everything. I am quite. satisfied that if a returned soldier wants an agricultural farm he will get it from this Government, and he will be com­fortable for the rest of his life. I do not want the Queen,]and soldier, when he returns, to have to depend on Australian help. I think that every Queenslander should be provided for by his own Government. (Hear, hear!) Now, my repatriation scheme is this: Suppose it would take £1,500-or £1,000, or whatever you like-to fit a farm up properly for a returned soJ.dier and make him comfortable and independent for the rest of his life, or to give him a start in that direction, I say it is quite simple to raise the amount necessary. I have been asked, what on earth is the good of propos­ing such a scheme if you cannot raise the money? You cannot make a certainty of raising any particular amount by voluntary

[Mr. Land.

subscription. The simplest thing in tha· world is to strike an income tax for that purpose, and as the poor man and the poor woman of Queensland are taxed enough and. have enough to do to live at the prices they have to pay for houses and everything else, you will consequently have to put that tax upon the incomes of the rich-on those who­are able to bear it. If my friends opposite· arE' quite sincere and want to do more for· the soldiers-more for them than we want to do-I shall be very pleased indeed.

Mr. BoOKER: Give them freeholds, any­way ; don't play the fool.

Mr. LAND: I am one of those who do­not agree with the freehold system. I be­lieve that the State ought to own the land and lease it to the people as required. I do not object to a pastoralist having 1,000· mill's of leasehold if we do not want it, and that is the best tenure we can get. I have said that often. Supposing we have· small farms under perpetual lease, what Government is going to take those farms­away? In any case, the soldier himself. would be satisfied with the tenure. If you give every soldier a farm, or the equivalent of a farm, up to about £1,500 per family, there will not be mu,ch to complain about, and they will never complain about the· tenure. I hope we shall be able to do some­thing on the lines I have laid down. We· know that certain areas have been thrown open, and I shall be very pleased, from time to time, to assist the Government in spying out land and throwing it open in_ suitable areas for them.

The Speech says-" It needs no very close scrutiny of

the events of the war to realise that the food-producer, as a. factor in it, is hardly second to the soldier."

I admit that. Of course, I do. I look upon the patriot of Australia, first of all, as the soldier who has gone to the war. I will stand by him to the last. But I say that every man in Australia to-day is just as use­ful in producing as the soldier at the front, and this Government in every way will assist the producers. I am surprised that hon. members opposite should criticise the Go-· vernment as they do at times, when they know that the Government are doing their· level best. We have had Liberal Govern­ments in Queensland for fifty odd years; it has been practically the same crew since· Queensland had responsible Government. The Labour Government has been in power· only a little over two years. Their policy is. a different policy altogether, and it will take time. I have to bear my share of the responsibility, and I am pleased t-o see the Labour Government where they are. Many people say that they came into power at a bad time. I am satisfied and quite pleased· that they got into power when they did, and 1 am quite sure that the finances will be looked after very much better by them than if the Opposition were in power.

Mr. BoOKER : How are you going to meet your obligations?

Mr. LAND : If we were like the old Growd, that would not trouble us much, because they used to go on in the same old' boom, borrow, and burst style.

Mr. BoOKER: You want to make a. sovereign buy £1 5s.

Address in Reply, [24 JULY.] Address in Reply. 341

Mr. LAJ\"D: No, I do not. I am just as <>earnest in the welfare of Queensland as the m'!n. _member, and I do not go about crying . stmkmg fish.

Mr. MORGAN : What about the stock ·embargo? You are going to lose your seat -over that.

Mr. LAND: If I do, I lose it by interest­ing myself in the interests of the commu­nity .. I never meet my troubles half way,

·and, If the hon. member were in the same position as I am, he need not bother his

.head. The Speech also says-" In order to promote the selection of

lands open for settlement, it is proposed to provide for the improvement of the means of access."

I have always advocated making good roads ~o our railways. It is not much good open­mg up the country by railways if the roads

·are cut off. I remember listening to an irrigation scheme referred to by my hon frien~ the. m':'m~er _for Bower: the other- day: I believe m nngatwn, especially in Queens­Jand, but before the Government take on an _-extensive irrigation scheme or propose to ~eep the roads open to the railways, I think 1t would be a very sensible thing indeed if

they were to see that water was [9.30 p.m.] provided. In the back country

many railway stations are cut off and many places are deprived of markets becaus: of the lack of water. Sometimes

·there IS a matter of 60 or 70 miles without any water on the main stock route, and the people are very seriously inconvenienced, ~!though water could be obtained in many mstances from bores. It would be only a matter of making provision to run them across our public roads. I hope that when

·the.Government are endeavouring to improve their roa~s and thoroughfares by bridges ·Imd ?learmg alj,d so on, they will take the <question of water conservation into considera­tion. The Speech also says-

. " My advisers have ea used investis·a­trons on an extensive scale to be carried ·on ~y experts and scientists, at whose .service. ~ave been placed all the im;tru­ment~lr.ti"s. of ~he State, with the view of mmimismg .If not entirely destroying the pests. winch have done so Fmch damage m our sugar-fields and among -our flocks and herds. From the rewlts alread;v obtained there is good reason to behevo that these investigations will be successful."

-I know that the Government are endeavour­ing to do their best in this matter and I would draw their attention to the pests in

·the :Western country. In the far West the holdmgs a_re very large. Many of them are occupied by pa~t~Hal lessees, becMtsc they cou\d not be utilised otherwise at the ·present time, seeing the railways are so far away, and that much of the country is very

·dry. ~arge a;reas there are becoming OV8r­

run with vanous kinds of pests, and the Governm"nt do not seem to be seized of the great serr~msness of the situation. If they ·co~ld. arrive at son:e scientific method of .assistmg the pastorahsts and grazing farmers ·to . get nd of t~e blowfly, they would be -d.om&' a good th.mg for this State, because that IS a very serrous pest. I remember years .ago when ~he sheep .in Australia were subject l!o other diseases, dips and suitable solutiona

were provided, and the sheep were dipped and in time those diseases were stamped out: 1 .would urge the Go_vernment to go into thi~ matter very f';'IIY mdeed, and take very active steps to assist the people who are on the land at the present time. The Western country has other pests, such as dogs foxes and rabbit~. I remember last y~ar w~ endeavoure~ to pass a Marsupial Bill, and I was surpnsed that my hon. friends opposite opposed that Bill. I bla.me them for tho loss of the Bill.

Mr. MORGAN : It was thrown out by y0ur own side.

Mr. LAND: The Minister decided to intro .. duce the Bill in a cm·tab form. Perhaps I would have liked to see it liberalised as much f>,s possible, but I would much rather accept the Bill as it was than have it thrown out. T~1ere were two very strong points in tho Bill that would have done an immensn amount of good. One wr.s the fixing of the price for scalps of dogs and foxes at £1 or 15s., and the other was making it compulsory for every person who occupied the land to do something towards g·etting rid of the pests. Over forty years ago I was on a sheep station that was surrounded by cattle stations, and the cattlemen would not allow a dog to be destroyed on their holdings. There are many men like that to-day, with the result that Crown lands become infested, and, when the Government resume land, small holders cannot take it up, for th" simple reason that they could not possibly work sheep there. The•e pests, like the prickly-pear, are spreading at an alarming rate, and the Government should be as active a' possible in trying to keep them d6wn.

The Speech further says-" Considerable succc's having attended

the establishment of State butchers' shops is various centres, it is the inten­tion of my advisers to extend the system to other suitable localities as the oppor­tunity arises. The innovation -hns emphasis<:'d the need for State-conduc~ed cattle and sheep stations, .and some operations in that direction have been carried out by the State with marked success. The Government now own~ thirteen cattle stations, totalling in ..rea 13.848 s(Juare miles and pasturing a~ present 126,000 stock."

Mr. MoRGAN: Do you want a 8t11b1> butcher's shop in your electorate?

Mr. LAND: No; we have the cheanest meat in Austraiia. I quite realise that· the Government are not in a position to estab­lish State butchers' ehop., all over Queens­land. I also recognise that, so far as the:; ht' ve gone in connection with their butchers' shops, they have done well ; but I think "''' are paying too much for our meat ;n Queensland. It is all very well talking abom supplying meat to the Imperial Government at. 4~d. per lb.. but I do not think the Imperial Government want us to send them ti;e pick of our meat at 4~d. while the people ot Queensland have to pay ls. per lb. In som!l parts of Queensland to-day, they are paymg over 1s. per lb. A few weeks ago I saw one place where the price of 4 lb. of corned beef was 4s. ld. That is not rea•o::t­able.

I will now give embargo on stock.

my opinion about the There is nothing much

Mr. Land.]

342 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

to make a howl about in connection with the embargo. There have been embargoes in Queensland befD~e. In fact New South Walee put an embargo on pigs before we started. at all, because pork was getting clearer m New South \Vales.

Mr. MoRGAN: I thought we were doing away with embargoes when we federated.

Mr. LAND : It is all very well to talk of federation. I have heard that argument before fl'{)m some of the greatest stock pro­ducers in Queensland, althDugh they do not care twopence about federation, or about New South \Vales, or about anybody else but themselvoo. The hon. member for Murill:> last year interjected, " You fixed the pl'lcc of beef too l{lw, That is what we are complaining about."

Mr. MORGAN: No.

Mr. L_\ND : The difference between the Government embarg{) proposal and mine is this: The Government allowed cattle over the border on condition that the owner paid a deposit of 10s. per head and undertook to return the cattle to Queensland, and in the case of s~eep on payment of 6d. per head on rond1tion that they should be returned to this State. They allowed them to cro,,s the border if there was no grass on this side. I :--anted to have a close embargo, allmving nmther sheep nor cattle to go over the border at all, unless there was no grass Dn this side and it was necessary for them to cross th~ border to save them from starving.

Mr. M ORGAN : There would be more sense in that than what the Government did. They drove cattle out of Queensland.

Mr. LAND: Exactly so. That is why I suggested a close embargo. My object was to keep the whole of the cattle in Queens­land, so t~at every fat bullock wonld have to be sold m this State. As I said last :vear !et . the. stock producers and the financiai mshtutwns that control the whole of the stock of Queensland get their heads together and ag:ee to supply the whole of Qneens­la!'d w1th meat at ~ reasonable price. I thmk a reasonable prwe would be np to 4~d. per lb. for beef and up to 3~d. per lb. for mutton.

Mr. MoRGAX: Retail or wholesale?

Mr. LAND: Retail. It is no nse saying that it could not be done. I know as mnch about the raising and selling of stDck in Queensland as any hon. member in this House, and I know that stockowners were getting a better price befDre the war than e_ver· we got previously, . but it was nothing hke wh<:t they a;·e gettmg now. Everyone was satJsfied ana everybody did well. I never knew a pastoralist to " go broke" because of the price paid for meat. What ma!<es pastoralists " go broke" is drought, whJCh causes then water snpply to run out.

Mr. MoRGAN : What effect has the 10s. embargo had?

Mr. LAND: Stock have got Dver the border which shonld not have got over at all. If . y~u let star~ stock gD over the boi'der, 1t Is a very s1mple thing to starve yopr cattle for a couple of nights and then pass them o-yer as store~. (Hear, hear!) I am not find.mg fault w1th the Government in the action they took. The Government did what they thought was a fair thing;

[.illr. Land.

but, as I pointed ont, I would have acted! differently. 'I'he hon. member for Warwick. referred to me advocating an embargo of £5. per head. I only wanted to keep the em­bargo on nntil snuh time as the stock pro­ducers and financial institntions agreed to· snpply the people of Queensland with meat· at a reasonable price. The Government took. a different view of the matter, and acted honestly and conscientiously in what they did.

Mr. MORGA::-1: Bnt yon admit that they· were wrong.

Mr. LAND: I am not going to allow the· hon. member to put words into my mouth. (Hear, hear!) I -have explained the differ­ence between the G<Jvernment's action and~ what I consider was the better conrse to· adopt. I am just as much concerned about. the interests of pastorali st-s as anybody else. but I say that the consumers in Queensland' should also be considered. The people in my district ar'c labouring under a very great-. disadvantage. The country there is nearer· to the South Australian and New South• vV ales markets than other parts of Queens­land, and from some parts of my electorate­you have to travel a long way to reach a .. railway.

Mr. MORGA::-1: Yon will offend a nnmber· of people in your district.

Mr. LAND: I know that as well as the· hon. member. The hon. member for \Var­wick has pointed out that there are so many stockowners in Qneensland owning from one· to 1,000 head, and has said that these are the people who were affected by the embargo. I would remind the hon. member that there· are hundreds and thousands of women and children whose husbands or brothers are at the front, and who are asked to pay for meat a price that they cannot pay. That is a very good reason why the embargo should be impcsed on stock and tl1€ price of meat rednced. There are seven or eight towns in the district in which I live that have not even a bntcher's shop. It is impossible for butchers to build slaughter-yards according· to the specification pre~-1cribed, bnUd butehers' shops, and bny cattle at a price which will enable them to retail meat at a reasonable· figure. On one occasion· I WftS spoken to by a policeman, who told men that in the town where he was stationed he had not had one atom of fresh beef for twelve months.

At fourteen minutes to 10 o'clock, The SPEAKER resumed the chair.

Mr. LAND : If hon. members take th&· trouble to look at the market reports, th<?y will see that there is never a glut of fat bullocks or fat sheep in the Enoggera­market. The reason for that is that the· stockowners have a nice way of controlling. the market.

The SECRETARY FOR PcBLIC lNSTRcCTION :. They have a union.

Mr. LAND: Of course, they have, and in­is one of the best nnions in the worid .. There is no paddock at the market to pnt> cattle in; and, if there was a paddock, the c·attle wonld get poorer if they were kept any length of time. I was not concerned.· about supplving the British Government with meat at 4~d. per lb. until our own peoplE> had been served at a reasonable price, anc'l;<

Address in Reply. [24 JULY.] Address in Reply. 343

I do not see how any fair-minded man in Britain or anywhere else can object to that. I hope that the Government will do their best to. get meat for the people at a fairer ~rice than they are paying at the present time.

Mr. MoRGAN: \Yould a State butcher's shop affect the price of meat in your electorate?

' Mr. LAND : Yes. If it were not for a " ring" in the market, it would have a good influence. The Minister for Lands and I discussed this matter long ago. I went into a butcher's shop in Brisbane and paid 1s. 1d. for a pound of steak on one occasion and the next day I bought 1 lb. of the be"t 'steak and 1 lb. of loin chops in a State butcher's sh'?P for 1s .. 3d. Who would patronise a pnvate shop m Queensland to-day if all the people c·ould get meat at State butcheries? When we speak of the high price of meat we are told tha~ the law of supply and demand rules the priCe all over the world. Nothing of the kind.

Mr. MoRGA::\: The sapp!v of meat to the Imperial Government at 4J;d. per lb. fixes the value of meat in Queensland, and you know that.

Mr. LAND: Xo; I know a bit better th1n that. But the trouble is that, although P.eop!e can get meat at a much less price sm~e State butchers' shops were started in Bnsbane, there are a lot of people who cannot go to the shops for their meat. If the State shops would deliver meat the same as private shops--

Mr. MoRGAN: And give credit.

Mr. LAKD: Yes, and trust customers and treat them in the same way as thev are trusted and treated by private shops,· there would not be a private butcher's shop in Brisbane. (Hear, hear!)

.In connection with the fish supply, that Will, no doubt, be a good idea when we get it into working order.

An 0PPOSITIOX :!\1E:lfBER : When do you expect to get it into working order?

Mr. LAND : I have been inquiring about that, a.nd I expect it to be in going order early m the year. and the public will be ab)e to go to the shop and get fish at a fair pnce.

I :10:v wan.t to say something about the patrwtw busmess in Australia, and more particularly in Queensland. I am one who never believed in the system at all. In the first place, it never should have been wanted Our .sol.diers should not want the help of any patriOtic money, and I am sure their wives and children should not require a.ny such help .. I r''~11ember speaking to the Premier on this subject, and I said, "My opinion is, you shou]d nev<:r have allowed the patriotic scheme hke th1s to start in Queensland if you could help it; and now it is started you should do awav with it as soon a~ possible." •

Mr. MORGAX : Then, the Premier doesn't seem to have taken your advice.

Mr. LAND: The Premier, the Govern­~ent, and the party supporting them. have oone the best they could in the matter. (Hear, hear !) In the first place money for patriotic nuruoses is collected' from the peopie, ·who cannot afford it. I believe the

big bulk of the people to-day who have paid patriotic money in Australia are the poor people. (Hear, hear!) Every possible means has been devibed with the object of getting money out of the poor people. And what was it for? It was supposed to be for the returned soldiers, or their wives and families. My principal objection to this patriotic business-! ha.ve seen it before-is that in some cases the cost has been so great that· a lot of it has gone to purposes it was not collected or subscribed for; it has been frit­tered away in expenditure. (Hear, hear!)

The SECRETARY FOR PL'BLIC LAXDS : In some cases it has been 90 per cent.

Mr. :!\1oRGAN: Where vour Trades Hall had anything to do with it, 100 per cent. of it was fritterE'd awa.y.

1lr. LAXD : This is a very serious busi­ness. The poor people of Queensland are being pestered for patriotic purposes, and th._-y are contributing more than they can afford. My contention is, that if you give £1 for a patriotio purpose, that £1 ought to go to the purpose for which it was collected. (Hear, hear!) That is not so at a.ll; and my opinion is that this Government now should take this patriotic fund over altogether-if it has power to do so--take it over and administer the remainder. I have been to the patriotic establishments, and I would not say there was anything wrong with them. I found everything all right, and per ha pa every man was doing his best in an honest way. I don't know if he is not. If I did kno\Y. I would certainly tell you, Mr. Speaker. My opinion is that this Govern­ment should lose no time in dealing with this matter. :l'\ow, I just want to quote two or three words from Sunday's "Truth." This matter has been brought· before the Federal Govqnment, and I have seen no ·action taken at all-

" The report in the public Press thus refers to information laid before the Minister (Senator J\1illen). It was re­ported that the amount c<mtributed to the various funds in a.ll the States up to June 30, was £2.559,738. The total dis­bursements on account of soldiers and dependcnts only, was £590,974. After deducting other payments, there was a total estimated balance of £1,198,925."

::\ow, that has been brought before Senator ::\Iillen. There is no doubting those figures. I was not a bit surprised, because it is only in accord with the d''ductions a.nd disburse­ments in evei'Y other fund of the kind I have seen in 'Queensland. So I say it· is the dutv of the Gowrnment-never mind if it is under Federal control-to try and do sc,mething. Let us get to work and show the Federal Government that this should not continue any longer; do away with it alto­gether; use the remaining portion of the money for patriotic purposes-if you like to call them patriotic purposes-while it lasts; but see that no Foldiers' wi.-es or children want. And they do wa.nt; they never get a. fair deal.

Mr. CARTER: They are starving in Vic­toria.

Mr. BooKER: What are you people doing to save the situation? Humbug! Humbug! Humbug!

11r. LAl\'D: ::\Iany men are getting less than they were getting before the war, when

Mr. Land.]

344 AddreB8 in Reply. [COUNCIL.]

they were living at home comfortably with their wives and fa_milies. Now, my hon. friend, Mr. Murphy, referred to the bitter­ness that existed during the conscription campaign. I, for one, would like to see bitterness in connection with this sort of thing done away with altogether. I am twitted, like the rest. I never went on to a recruiting platform. I go further than most men; I stand for Australia first.

I would now like to refer to a few matters which directly affect my district. With reference to the railway policy, I hope that the Government will take into consideration the extension of the line to Dirranbandi and the branch line to St. George. The line to Dirranbandi was passed, and the branch line to St. George has been advocated for a number .of years. l know that the Govern­ment will not be able to carry out a very vigorous railway policy, but I hope that they will take these two proposals into considera­tion. In connection with the administration of the railways, I have pointed out pretty often that the people want better railway aocommodation. I know that the Secretary for Railways is anxious to do the best he can. Even if the department are unable to run as many trains as the people ask for, the trains which are run should be made as convenient as possible. That is very necessary in the back country. I trust that the Government will take these suggestions into consideration and do the best they can in the matter.

I would like to refer to a land matter in connection with the Gulnarbar resumption. The resumption was agreed on, and every­body was satisfied, but the Land Court came along and upset everything.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS: The lessees were not satisfied.

Mr. LAND : I beg pardon. Everyone but the lessee was satisfied, and he appealed. The Land Court upheld the appeal, and up­set the proposals of the Government. I hope that other land in that district will be re­sumed and thrown open as soon as possible. The Land Court has been a buffer between the pastoral tenant and the Crown.

Mr. MonGAN: That is a reflection on the Land Court.

Mr. LAND: I do not care whether it is a reflection on the I,an.cJ Court or not. I have said before that it was a conservative organi.­S<Ition.

I wish to add a few words in connection with the different matters which are agitat­ing the minds of the people throughout Queensland. As I said a minute ago, con­scription was the start. I would like every man and woman 4t%,Queensland who have a different opinion on' that subject to try and get into one mind, so that we can pull together better than we have done in the past. Sectarian and other influences have been preached and introduced into the ranks of the Labour party, but I hope that the people of Queensland will be too sensible to allow themselvf's to be influenced by considerations of that kind.

Mr. VOWLES (Dalby) : I move the ad­journment of the debate.

Question put and passed. The resumption of the debate was made an

Order of the Day for to-morrow. The House adjourned at five minutes past

10 o'clock.

[Mr. Land.

Arbitration Oourt Award.